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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Is Dave in danger of facing a leadership challenge and if s

SystemSystem Posts: 11,006
edited June 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Is Dave in danger of facing a leadership challenge and if so who do you think, if anybody, will replace him?

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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    First? And now to lunch.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    I voted for no challenge. My prediction is that unrestrained backbenchers will manage to undermine Cameron and damage him/their own party but won't actually get to the stage of mounting a challenge.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Morris_Dancer

    I also dont think there will be a contest but as EiT is always pointing out it doesnt require anyone to mount a challenge to force a vote (of confidence). It can happen accidentally (or at least without an organised campaign) if enough backbenchers write to ask for one. We could be one away from a challenge without ever knowing!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    No challenge - the party has no discipline, so any love for Cameron is outweighed by the hate, but the haters don't have the balls, odd member aside, to actually pull the trigger, when they figure they'd lose the GE with a new leader anyway. So let Cameron do it, use his failure as excuse to head in whichever direction you like by saying anyone else would have won.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    FPT

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22745845

    Watching this piece on MPs' expenses, I wonder if there is any way for an MP to express dissatisfaction with IPSA without soundling like bleating lambs, whining away about how unfair it is that they are not trusted to manage expenses in house anymore. There do seem to be problems with the current system, but whenever those brave enough to point out what can be valid complaints, they always seem to give away something in their attitude that shows they don't quite understand why annoyance for them is currently the preferred option.

    The thing is, unfortunately, is that it is not unfair that MPs are not trusted to keep these things in house, because the prevailing attitude even at the time of the scandal appeared to be 'I'm sorry the system was too generous, but I did nothing wrong because that trouser press was within the rules. What's that, I could have chosen not to purchase it because firm creases are not essential parts of my job? Madness!' (oh, they said sorry, but the deeper meaning was very clear on such trivial spending cases). That is, most still didn't think they'd done anything wrong, instead focusing only on whether things were illegal.

    The system is making MPs unhappy (I spit on the idea that it will dissuade the best people from standing for Parliament - there are thousands who could do the job just as well, and if bureaucratic annoyances are enough to force them out, unless they are being pushed to bankruptcy then they did not deserve the job in the first place) so alterations may be needed, but how can that be achieved when any suggestion comes with such baggage, and the clear implication from those complaining about how hard they have it, having to be scrutinized so? I can't really see how at the moment.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Things are getting desperate in Turkey as some police join the protesters:
    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/world_news/Europe/article1267937.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2013_06_01
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Given the UKIP thing wouldn't there be a non-banksta candidate?
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    I also voted for no challenge to Cammo. I would gladly be on the losing side if a credible challenger did appear.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Does Adam Afriyie not deserve a mention amongst the runners and riders? He seems more likely to stand in any pre GE contest than Boris.
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    kle4 said:

    No challenge - the party has no discipline, so any love for Cameron is outweighed by the hate, but the haters don't have the balls, odd member aside, to actually pull the trigger, when they figure they'd lose the GE with a new leader anyway. So let Cameron do it, use his failure as excuse to head in whichever direction you like by saying anyone else would have won.

    The donors might not agree though.
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    FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    On-topic:

    'Housework to do, people to see.
    Another thread; now for reality....'

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h1oRP7FfBw
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    edited June 2013
    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    No challenge - the party has no discipline, so any love for Cameron is outweighed by the hate, but the haters don't have the balls, odd member aside, to actually pull the trigger, when they figure they'd lose the GE with a new leader anyway. So let Cameron do it, use his failure as excuse to head in whichever direction you like by saying anyone else would have won.

    The donors might not agree though.
    Perhaps not, but the chicken-without-heads routine of late suggests hatred of the leadership is overcoming rationality in some respects so no-one may be thinking about the doners (or maybe they are right on every count and it will help?), so in fact I suppose I shouldn't rule out a leadership challenge.
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    kle4 said:

    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    No challenge - the party has no discipline, so any love for Cameron is outweighed by the hate, but the haters don't have the balls, odd member aside, to actually pull the trigger, when they figure they'd lose the GE with a new leader anyway. So let Cameron do it, use his failure as excuse to head in whichever direction you like by saying anyone else would have won.

    The donors might not agree though.
    Perhaps not, but the chicken-without-heads routine of late suggests hatred of the leadership is overcoming rationality in some respects so no-one may be thinking about the doners (or maybe they are right on every count and it will help?), so in fact I suppose I shouldn't rule out a leadership challenge.
    Yeah i wasn't meaning them thinking about the donors but the donors thinking eh up we need to do something and "lobbying" some MPs into forcing a leadership change. Dunno how likely that is.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    No challenge - the party has no discipline, so any love for Cameron is outweighed by the hate, but the haters don't have the balls, odd member aside, to actually pull the trigger, when they figure they'd lose the GE with a new leader anyway. So let Cameron do it, use his failure as excuse to head in whichever direction you like by saying anyone else would have won.

    The donors might not agree though.
    Perhaps not, but the chicken-without-heads routine of late suggests hatred of the leadership is overcoming rationality in some respects so no-one may be thinking about the doners (or maybe they are right on every count and it will help?), so in fact I suppose I shouldn't rule out a leadership challenge.
    Yeah i wasn't meaning them thinking about the donors but the donors thinking eh up we need to do something and "lobbying" some MPs into forcing a leadership change. Dunno how likely that is.
    Oh I see - that is more likely probably.
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    davidzzzdavidzzz Posts: 1
    Cameron is stunned and No. 10 is rocked, as news of no.10 love affair is adorned with photograph of Samantha, and as Boris Johnson's boast that "I can do a much better job than Dave" gets more and more column inches.
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    kle4 said:

    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    No challenge - the party has no discipline, so any love for Cameron is outweighed by the hate, but the haters don't have the balls, odd member aside, to actually pull the trigger, when they figure they'd lose the GE with a new leader anyway. So let Cameron do it, use his failure as excuse to head in whichever direction you like by saying anyone else would have won.

    The donors might not agree though.
    Perhaps not, but the chicken-without-heads routine of late suggests hatred of the leadership is overcoming rationality in some respects so no-one may be thinking about the doners (or maybe they are right on every count and it will help?), so in fact I suppose I shouldn't rule out a leadership challenge.
    Yeah i wasn't meaning them thinking about the donors but the donors thinking eh up we need to do something and "lobbying" some MPs into forcing a leadership change. Dunno how likely that is.
    Oh I see - that is more likely probably.
    For instance the donors might try to engineer a resignation.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    o/t another poll in Ireland showing FF and FG level pegging:

    FG - 27%
    FF - 27%
    SF - 17%
    Lab - 11%

    Ladbrokes have the almost inconceivable grand coalition option at 6/4 strong favourite with the current FG / Lab government only 12/5 to be returned.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    ps Ladbrokes have 5 other Irish political markets but I'll be damned if I'm ever going to figure out how to view them. Sorry Shadsy but the website needs fixing!
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,320
    edited June 2013
    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    MrJones said:

    kle4 said:

    No challenge - the party has no discipline, so any love for Cameron is outweighed by the hate, but the haters don't have the balls, odd member aside, to actually pull the trigger, when they figure they'd lose the GE with a new leader anyway. So let Cameron do it, use his failure as excuse to head in whichever direction you like by saying anyone else would have won.

    The donors might not agree though.
    Perhaps not, but the chicken-without-heads routine of late suggests hatred of the leadership is overcoming rationality in some respects so no-one may be thinking about the doners (or maybe they are right on every count and it will help?), so in fact I suppose I shouldn't rule out a leadership challenge.
    Yeah i wasn't meaning them thinking about the donors but the donors thinking eh up we need to do something and "lobbying" some MPs into forcing a leadership change. Dunno how likely that is.
    We need a neat summary for that eventuality. Donor kebab?
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    PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    Wouldn't any leadership challenge need to come from an MP ? Hence ruling out Boris....
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    From cricinfo on today's game

    All right? England aren't. They have about as much chance of winning this game as an MP filing his correct expenses...

    The villification continues
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    Re: The mystery political love affair.

    The Daily Mail reports that :" For legal reasons, the identities of the people involved or any details of the relationship - even its duration - cannot be disclosed."

    What particular "legal reasons" are those pray? It couldn't possibly be, could it, that the Mail is simply not 100% sure of its facts?

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    PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 661
    PLEASE REMEMBER NO SPECULATION ABOUT THE DAILY MAIL NO 10 STORY
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Brilliant news for the SNP

    @afneil: Only 1 in 5 Scottish teenagers eligible to vote in independence referendum supports separation, according to a new major poll. 60% against
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    edited June 2013
    Carlotta MODERATED got there hours before you, Scott. Here is my own take on that poll -

    http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/the-youth-of-today-and-youth-of.html
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    isamisam Posts: 40,897

    Re: The mystery political love affair.

    The Daily Mail reports that :" For legal reasons, the identities of the people involved or any details of the relationship - even its duration - cannot be disclosed."

    What particular "legal reasons" are those pray? It couldn't possibly be, could it, that the Mail is simply not 100% sure of its facts?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2013/jun/02/mailonsunday-davidcameron
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited June 2013
    For those of you that still think of the Wall Street Journal as a serious newspaper, you might want to check out the latest editorial video, wherein they call the city authorities "totalitarians" and Bloomberg an "autocratic leader" for... wait for it... bringing in a bike rental scheme along the London model.

    The Wall Street Journal should now properly be classed along side Fox News, Newsmax and the Rush Limbaugh Show as part of the hysterical Tea Party media.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Carlotta MODERATED got there hours before you, Scott. Here is my own take on that poll -

    http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/the-youth-of-today-and-youth-of.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaoL36OQQ5w

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    NextNext Posts: 826

    Carlotta got there hours before you, Scott. Here is my own take on that poll -

    http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/the-youth-of-today-and-youth-of.html

    I had a LOL at this:-

    "I also like being part of something bigger, Michaella, and staying united with the rest of the EU makes perfect sense to me. Unfortunately, Scotland's status as part of the parochial, right-wing UK is imperilling our continued membership of the European family of nations."

    Are you trying to be serious when you write like that?

    Please tell me this is satire, not saltire.
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited June 2013
    Looking at the current poll results re Cameron's leadership it seems there is a lot more common-sense among PB'ers than there is in the Tory party.

    Perhaps being on the outside and not within the claustrophobic confines of the Westminster village makes it easier to realise that Cameron is PM in a coalition govt, not a Tory one. The rightwingy'ness desired by the farthest right 1/3rd of the party and UKIP-leaners is therefore never going to materialise.

    Which suits me, suits Cameron, probably suits most of the Tory members of government and certainly suits anybody who has a hope of winning the next GE.
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    NextNext Posts: 826
    Survation poll:

    Labour: 36% (+1)
    Conservative: 25% (+1)
    UKIP: 20% (-2)
    Others: 10% (+1)
    Liberal Democrat: 10% (nc)
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Re: The mystery political love affair.

    The Daily Mail reports that :" For legal reasons, the identities of the people involved or any details of the relationship - even its duration - cannot be disclosed."

    What particular "legal reasons" are those pray? It couldn't possibly be, could it, that the Mail is simply not 100% sure of its facts?

    Unlikely. There are two other sorts of legal reason but one risks narrowing down the field. Either way, governments usually shrug off Ugandan stories these days.
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    Next - of course I'm being serious. I'm a passionate pro-European, and Scotland will be headed for an involuntary exit from the EU (courtesy of people such as yourself?) unless we get out of the UK.
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    NextNext Posts: 826

    Next - of course I'm being serious. I'm a passionate pro-European, and Scotland will be headed for an involuntary exit from the EU (courtesy of people such as yourself?) unless we get out of the UK.

    How can it be an involuntary exit - if Scotland is still part of the UK everyone there will get a vote in a referendum just like the rest of the UK.

    I have not decided how I would vote in a referendum yet, but I do know I would like the choice.

    Besides, your whole premise is wrong. To describe the UK as parochial, when Britain has a world-wide opportunity and appeal, is just not credible.

    Why would you choose to be on the fringes of an increasingly fractious EU, who would quite easy crap on countries like Scotland if it suited them, rather than being part of a world-beating union?
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    Next - of course I'm being serious. I'm a passionate pro-European, and Scotland will be headed for an involuntary exit from the EU (courtesy of people such as yourself?) unless we get out of the UK.

    If UK got free of the corrupt monster-state then it might be easier for Scotland to win an independence referendum if they were more pro monster state.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I think it's unlikely that Scotland and the rest of the UK would vote differently in an EU in/out referendum.
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    Next - it will be an involuntary exit if the majority of people in Scotland vote to stay in the EU (as seems likely). This is pretty basic stuff.
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    Next said:

    Next - of course I'm being serious. I'm a passionate pro-European, and Scotland will be headed for an involuntary exit from the EU (courtesy of people such as yourself?) unless we get out of the UK.

    How can it be an involuntary exit - if Scotland is still part of the UK everyone there will get a vote in a referendum just like the rest of the UK.

    I have not decided how I would vote in a referendum yet, but I do know I would like the choice.

    Besides, your whole premise is wrong. To describe the UK as parochial, when Britain has a world-wide opportunity and appeal, is just not credible.

    Why would you choose to be on the fringes of an increasingly fractious EU, who would quite easy crap on countries like Scotland if it suited them, rather than being part of a world-beating union?
    It would be no more an involuntary exit from the EU than Dumfries & Galloway having an involuntary exit from the UK, were a referendum to vote in favour of independence with Dumfries & Galloway voting to stay within the UK. This would be a likely scenario in an overall 'yes' referendum.

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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    'A future Labour government would scrap the winter fuel allowance for over half a million richer pensioners, the shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, will announce on Monday, as part of attempts to prove the party is ready to take tough spending decisions.'

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ill-scrap-winter-fuel-payouts-for-rich-pensioners-says-ed-balls-8641344.html
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Next - it will be an involuntary exit if the majority of people in Scotland vote to stay in the EU (as seems likely). This is pretty basic stuff.

    I thought the SNP was currently hero worshipping Norway , which is outside the EU.

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited June 2013
    Carola said:

    'A future Labour government would scrap the winter fuel allowance for over half a million richer pensioners, the shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, will announce on Monday, as part of attempts to prove the party is ready to take tough spending decisions.'

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ill-scrap-winter-fuel-payouts-for-rich-pensioners-says-ed-balls-8641344.html

    Do you think tim will grace us with his presence to say this is a dreadful policy because of the high marginal withdrawal rates that Balls' policy implies?

    Thought not.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,962
    edited June 2013
    AndyJS said:

    I think it's unlikely that Scotland and the rest of the UK would vote differently in an EU in/out referendum.

    The polling invariably suggests otherwise e.g. http://tinyurl.com/kqfadok
    *If* there's an In-Out referendum and, as many suggest with the main parties supporting staying, it defaults to an 'In', perhaps that won't make any real difference. If it's close however, it's quite conceivable that Scotland could vote to stay while the rest of the UK votes to go. Of course it would be nicely ironic if a strong positive vote in Scotland just nudged the UK over the EU 'In' threshold.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Carola said:

    'A future Labour government would scrap the winter fuel allowance for over half a million richer pensioners, the shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, will announce on Monday, as part of attempts to prove the party is ready to take tough spending decisions.'

    Haven't they announced that several times before? Admittedly they usually back-track the next day:

    Of course we look at all these issues but as Ed made clear twice in the interview Labour supports the Winter Fuel Allowance. Labour introduced the Winter Fuel Allowance. He made clear in his interview in January with James Landale in January that universality is “part of the bedrock” of our system. The position has not changed.

    http://labourlist.org/2013/04/labours-position-on-universal-benefits-has-not-changed/

    So perhaps universality was a bedrock a month ago but won't be tomorrow.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    Next - it will be an involuntary exit if the majority of people in Scotland vote to stay in the EU (as seems likely). This is pretty basic stuff.

    Bit tough for them to understand these types of things james
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902
    davidzzz said:

    Cameron is stunned and No. 10 is rocked, as news of no.10 love affair is adorned with photograph of Samantha, and as Boris Johnson's boast that "I can do a much better job than Dave" gets more and more column inches.

    Interesting 1st post. Welcome to pb.com !
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902
    Charles said:

    Carola said:

    'A future Labour government would scrap the winter fuel allowance for over half a million richer pensioners, the shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, will announce on Monday, as part of attempts to prove the party is ready to take tough spending decisions.'

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ill-scrap-winter-fuel-payouts-for-rich-pensioners-says-ed-balls-8641344.html

    Do you think tim will grace us with his presence to say this is a dreadful policy because of the high marginal withdrawal rates that Balls' policy implies?

    Thought not.
    Its a good decision economically. Terrible politically.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Carola said:

    'A future Labour government would scrap the winter fuel allowance for over half a million richer pensioners, the shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, will announce on Monday, as part of attempts to prove the party is ready to take tough spending decisions.'

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ill-scrap-winter-fuel-payouts-for-rich-pensioners-says-ed-balls-8641344.html

    Do you think tim will grace us with his presence to say this is a dreadful policy because of the high marginal withdrawal rates that Balls' policy implies?

    Thought not.
    Its a good decision economically. Terrible politically.
    Nah, I'd just fold it all into the pension system. Would most likely save more than £100m in admin costs. Plus also making it taxable (albeit at 45% not 100%) for higher earners.
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "It would be no more an involuntary exit from the EU than Dumfries & Galloway having an involuntary exit from the UK, were a referendum to vote in favour of independence with Dumfries & Galloway voting to stay within the UK. This would be a likely scenario in an overall 'yes' referendum."

    Indeed it would. I'm struggling to see how that wouldn't be an involuntary exit, though. It would be a legitimate outcome, and certainly not an indication that Dumfries and Galloway wanted to leave Scotland (any more than Scotland voting to remain in the EU would be a vote to leave the UK), but it would certainly be involuntary.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244
    re. winter fuel allowance, if that be the policy.

    Maybe the electorate really does have the recall of a goldfish but you can't go around opposing the withdrawal of universal benefits one minute and then withdraw one of them the next.

    Have they no shame? What a shower.
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    RicardohosRicardohos Posts: 258
    Now I've heard it, what a boring story has been circulating today. Must be to deflect from the Gov'ts real difficulties. Actually didn't realise they weren't shagging each other anyway tbh. Non story.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TOPPING said:

    you can't go around opposing the withdrawal of universal benefits one minute and then withdraw one of them the next.

    Why not?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244
    Neil said:

    TOPPING said:

    you can't go around opposing the withdrawal of universal benefits one minute and then withdraw one of them the next.

    Why not?
    what has changed? Nothing much so it makes no sense to wake up one morning and single out the WFA. When universal child benefit was withdrawn did the Labour Party say "yes, this is just the sort of thing we approve of. Expect more of it from us."?
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,320
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Carola said:

    'A future Labour government would scrap the winter fuel allowance for over half a million richer pensioners, the shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, will announce on Monday, as part of attempts to prove the party is ready to take tough spending decisions.'

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ill-scrap-winter-fuel-payouts-for-rich-pensioners-says-ed-balls-8641344.html

    Do you think tim will grace us with his presence to say this is a dreadful policy because of the high marginal withdrawal rates that Balls' policy implies?

    Thought not.
    Its a good decision economically. Terrible politically.
    Don't think so. Most richer beneficiaries who vote Labour will think it reasonable and an example of an acceptable benefit cut, showing Labour isn't ruling out difficult things. And it's hard for the Tories to attack since it's patently obvious that they wanted to do it until Gordon trapped Dave into promising not to. Dunno what the LibDem line is, or UKIP.

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244
    tim said:

    TOPPING said:

    re. winter fuel allowance, if that be the policy.

    Maybe the electorate really does have the recall of a goldfish but you can't go around opposing the withdrawal of universal benefits one minute and then withdraw one of them the next.

    Have they no shame? What a shower.

    Why not?
    Osborne will leave huge mess and the Tories priority is pensioners who live in the Ritz?
    I refer the honourable gentlemen to my previous answer to Neil.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Next said:

    Survation poll:

    Labour: 36% (+1)
    Conservative: 25% (+1)
    UKIP: 20% (-2)
    Others: 10% (+1)
    Liberal Democrat: 10% (nc)

    Sleazy UKIP on the slide ! Even the LD's have not chnaged !
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TOPPING said:

    it makes no sense to wake up one morning and single out the WFA

    Feel free to agree or disagree with it as a policy but it's hardly senseless, it's a question of priorities.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902
    surbiton said:

    Next said:

    Survation poll:

    Labour: 36% (+1)
    Conservative: 25% (+1)
    UKIP: 20% (-2)
    Others: 10% (+1)
    Liberal Democrat: 10% (nc)

    Sleazy UKIP on the slide ! Even the LD's have not chnaged !
    THe fact that a 20% share for UKIP in a poll is regarded as a very very very slight disappointment for them shows how far they have come.
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    houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    Leadership challenge is a bit of a misnomer isn't it? There has to be a confidence vote on Cameron's leadership before anyone else can enter the ring so a 'challenge' as such is out of the question.
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    houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    I suppose a candidate could put their head above the parapet and demand such a vote but would be an incredibly risky strategy.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244
    Neil said:

    TOPPING said:

    it makes no sense to wake up one morning and single out the WFA

    Feel free to agree or disagree with it as a policy but it's hardly senseless, it's a question of priorities.
    I don't mind it as a policy but the question people should be asking is why now? There has been endless debate on universal benefits, most recently wrt child benefit and the Lab Party was quiet as a mouse. I can't be bothered to google their reaction but I bet is was not supportive. And it should have been because there is no reason not to means-test benefits. But now they have seen the light and guess what, pace Child Benefit, it won't even be seen as a Lab initiative but a me-too follow on from the Cons.

    People will say "didn't the Cons do that recently? Shows they are on the right track."

    (not that you'd notice it from the current opinion polls, mind)
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TOPPING said:

    it won't even be seen as a Lab initiative but a me-too follow on from the Cons

    But the Tories have famously refused to take this step even though a lot of them are reported to accept that it's necessary. Proposing something that the Tories refuse to do will not be seen as a follow on from them. And as for why now? Why not now?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244
    edited June 2013
    Neil said:

    TOPPING said:

    it won't even be seen as a Lab initiative but a me-too follow on from the Cons

    But the Tories have famously refused to take this step even though a lot of them are reported to accept that it's necessary. Proposing something that the Tories refuse to do will not be seen as a follow on from them. And as for why now? Why not now?
    Because although you are right that it is seen as something that should be done, the Cons have shot the Lab means-testing-universal-benefit fox. They broke the taboo so means testing universal benefits is seen as a Cons initiative not a Lab one. That Lab have now found this one to means test isn't relevant or effective politically.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited June 2013
    tim said:

    TOPPING said:

    Neil said:

    TOPPING said:

    it won't even be seen as a Lab initiative but a me-too follow on from the Cons

    But the Tories have famously refused to take this step even though a lot of them are reported to accept that it's necessary. Proposing something that the Tories refuse to do will not be seen as a follow on from them. And as for why now? Why not now?
    Because although you are right that it is seen as something that should be done, the Cons have shot the Lab means-testing-universal-benefit fox. They broke the taboo so means testing universal benefits is seen as a Cons initiative not a Lab one. That Lab have now found this one to means test isn't relevant or effective politically.
    Dave will die in a ditch to protect wealthy pensioners while screwing over the disabled,it's his whole election strategy.
    Cameron , who had a disabled father and son , will base his re-election strategy on running the economy better than Gordon Brown's economic A Team , Ed Balls and Ed Miliband.

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited June 2013
    Is this more good news?

    Last week the OECD published their mid year Economic Outlook which contains its economic forecasts to the end of 2014 for member and key non-member countries. Their previous forecast was published in December 2012.

    Much was made in the media of the OECD downgrading the UK's growth forecast for 2013 and 2014 from its previous December forecast. Indeed, had you been listening only the BBC and Sky, you might have concluded that this was more bad news solely for the UK economy.

    It takes a bit of digging behind the media headlines into the OECD figures and report to reveal the true picture. And, from a global perspective, the news is indeed not good. Of the 40 countries reviewed only seven had their Real GDP growth rates revised upward and only one of these, Japan, was a G7 country.

    Of the main countries the US and Germany suffered -0.2% reduction, Spain -0.4%, Canada -0.6%, Italy -1.0%, France -1.1% and even China was marked down by -1.4%. The aggregate for the OECD as a whole was -0.2% and for the Eurozone -0.8%.

    So this makes the meagre adjustment of -0.1% to the UK's growth forecast rather a good performance relative to the rest of the world. It is clear the UK's economy is improving markedly when compared to its main competitors, particularly in Europe. We may not yet be thriving but we are certainly surviving.

    Of all those pleased with the UK performance, Angel Gurria, OECD's Secretary-General stood out. The OECD have been key advocates and endorsers of fiscal consolidation, far more so than the wobbly US Democratic influenced IMF.

    In June 2010, Gurria welcomed Osborne's first budget with a public endorsement:

    “It provides the necessary degree of fiscal consolidation over the coming years to restore public finances to a sustainable path, while still supporting the recovery. The plan for a gradual reduction in the deficit over the next five years is concrete and far-reaching. It is appropriate that the bulk of the adjustments come from public expenditure restraint, and that the tax measures focus mostly on consumption.”

    It was Gurria whom Ed Conway interviewed for Sky in Paris last Thursday. Gurria was the one with the smug smile on his face explaining that he had witnessed many attempts at economic turnaround in his time and the most successful ones have derived from a consistent and well-balanced plan with soft hands on the automatic stablisers. Conway remained silent looking suitably chastised.

    He then went home and wrote the following in his blog:

    We're so used to hearing bad news from international institutions like the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development that it might come as a surprise to hear that there's a whopping slab of good news for Britain buried away in its latest Economic Outlook.

    Admittedly, the good news is tucked away in one of the more obscure tables near the back of the report, and comes alongside some more noticeable bad news. But we must cherish these moments when they come – and this news is genuinely encouraging.

    It's as follows: after this crisis is through, from 2018 to 2030, Britain can enjoy stronger growth than almost any other major economy. At 2.6% the average predicted growth rate is even stronger than the United States (2.1%) and far, far stronger than Germany (0.9%). Britain's advantage will remain in place between 2031 and 2060 as well, at average growth of 2% (US: 1.7%, Germany: 0.7%).

    The figures, which form part of a section on long-term growth statistics from the OECD's latest survey of the world economy, are striking, suggesting as they do that Britain is destined for generations of punchy growth.

    It's as follows: after this crisis is through, from 2018 to 2030, Britain can enjoy stronger growth than almost any other major economy. At 2.6% the average predicted growth rate is even stronger than the United States (2.1%) and far, far stronger than Germany (0.9%).

    Britain's advantage will remain in place between 2031 and 2060 as well, at average growth of 2% (US: 1.7%, Germany: 0.7%).

    The figures, which form part of a section on long-term growth statistics from the OECD's latest survey of the world economy, are striking, suggesting as they do that Britain is destined for generations of punchy growth.


    If you want the explanation for this good news you will have to go directly to Ed Conway's blog as he certainly won't be permitted to reveal such thoughts to Sky News's cameras.

    Here is the link: http://www.edmundconway.com/author/admin/
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,285
    New Thread
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AveryLP said:

    Is this more good news?

    We can only hope for more downgradings for you to rave about in the future, Avery!
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,286
    This is completely Mickey Mouse - Winter Fuel allowance is £200 - stopping it for 500,000 pensioners is going to save all of £100m.

    Meanwhile a single person earning £10,000 with two children gets given £10,000 of benefits.

    One single person earning £10,000 with two children gets a handout the same as 50 Winter Fuel allowances.

    It's a complete joke.
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @RichardNabavi

    'Haven't they announced that several times before? Admittedly they usually back-track the next day:'

    If the tabloid press come out against it,it will be dropped by the end of the week.
    One of the reasons Ed is still stuck with his blank piece of paper.
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