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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB moves to 42pc and UKIP slip to fourth in today’s YouGov

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited June 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB moves to 42pc and UKIP slip to fourth in today’s YouGov

At the same time Labour continues to advance and today’s share and recent results suggest that the party is benefitting most from UKIP going off the boil.

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    FPT rcs1000
    rcs1000 said:

    Fellow PBers, a question for you all: Is Ocado too big to fail?

    I am not familiar with Ocado, Robert.

    Is it a residential property development near Malaga?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    UKIP now behind LibDems too - first time since March..

    FPT rcs1000 - if Ocado did fail I suspect Amazon would love to buy them on the cheap.....
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013
    The focus on matters economic will hardly help Farage either right now. NF needs the tory backbenchers to run about like headless chickens on Europe or immigration again. For some reason Cammie and Osbrowne don't seem too keen to repeat that error. For the moment. ;)
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    rcs1000 said:

    Fellow PBers, a question for you all: Is Ocado too big to fail?

    What a bizarre question.

    Ocado are surely not too big to fail, but Tesco?

    I'm not altogether certain that the rest of the grocery market could cope with one-third of it shutting up shop overnight.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    The areas where the local elections were enthused UKIP voters and the likelihood to vote figures for Labour slipped as Tory core areas were holding elections.
    MORI certainly showed this and ICM's sample last month was just odd.
    Normality is resuming, with Labour seemingly gaining pensioner votes in todays YouGov

    36/36 with the Tories UKIP down to 15.

    Ladbrokes have cut their 7/4 on UKIP 5-10% to 6/4, which is still value.

    But you are going to get a second bite at a juicier cherry come the Euros, tim.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Dan Hodges:

    "Osborne's welfare announcement was a trap, a blatant, neon-signposted trap. And Labour marched in, again"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100223727/osbornes-welfare-announcement-was-a-trap-a-blatant-neon-signposted-trap-and-labour-marched-in-again/
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013

    Dan Hodges:

    "Osborne's welfare announcement was a trap, a blatant, neon-signposted trap. And Labour marched in, again"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100223727/osbornes-welfare-announcement-was-a-trap-a-blatant-neon-signposted-trap-and-labour-marched-in-again/

    Comedy Ultra-Blairite suggests little Ed's response to tory positioning should be to agree to tory policies on the spot without even thinking about them. World recoils in shock. ;)

  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    The areas where the local elections were enthused UKIP voters and the likelihood to vote figures for Labour slipped as Tory core areas were holding elections.
    MORI certainly showed this and ICM's sample last month was just odd.
    Normality is resuming, with Labour seemingly gaining pensioner votes in todays YouGov

    36/36 with the Tories UKIP down to 15.

    Ladbrokes have cut their 7/4 on UKIP 5-10% to 6/4, which is still value.

    But you are going to get a second bite at a juicier cherry come the Euros, tim.

    Doubtful, we're used to UKIP surges at Euro elections and how they melt away.
    What helps Farage most is the Tories banging on about Europe and Immigration,and surely even Osborne and Cameron have learned that lesson now?


    I realise that the PB Tories still get excited by those subjects, but even, even they must have realised that banging on about them helps UKIP?


    Cameron will do most of the talking about Europe in German from now until the election.

    You may however be able to get a few translations from the FCO EU Competences Review site.

  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Good for Labour, although getting excited over a tracker is not wise. It also suggests there's a soft protest vote. Of course, that might help come the election, when Labour's the sole nationwide opposition, but it might not.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985
    Guys, my Ocado question was a job meant to brighten everyone's morning.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    No market up on Webber's replacement on Ladbrokes, as yet.

    I have a couple of potential names in mind. Raikkonen seems to be what most people think, but I'd be very wary of switching to Red Bull if I were in his position.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013
    Look out Clegg! They're behind you. ;)
    Jonathan Calder ‏@lordbonkers 23m

    Living on words alone: Clegg to quit in Feb 2014? http://livingonwords.blogspot.com/2013/06/clegg-to-quit-in-feb-2014.html?spref=tw
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Dan Hodges:

    "Osborne's welfare announcement was a trap, a blatant, neon-signposted trap. And Labour marched in, again"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100223727/osbornes-welfare-announcement-was-a-trap-a-blatant-neon-signposted-trap-and-labour-marched-in-again/

    Labour and a smallish % of its more Leftish supporters seem to be very unwilling to accept that the world changed in 2008/09. I've been rudely reminded of this in an unexpected way when watching The Sopranos.

    In one series - its Mobland where screwing $6k a week from a line of business was easy pickings and soccer-moms bet on the stockmarket with their spare cash...then it all turned to dust and even wiseguys are feeling the pinch in a serious way.

    Why Labour in 2013 are still clinging onto the notion that handing out freebies is electorally appealing is beyond me - the polling is very clear on this, even last June - when the £26k benefit cap was in play, voters were saying 'its still too much'.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    On this specific point, Dan Hodges is right. Labour intellectually get that they need to accept the need for cuts and even to accept the need for specific cuts, but the moment a new specific cut comes up, they default to opposition. For a party that isn't trusted to take tough decisions, it's a really bad trait.

    While I didn't like the way that George Osborne expressed himself when he introduced a 7 day wait for claiming benefits for the newly unemployed, this is a group who will normally have funds to rely upon, either from redundancy or severance payments or from some accrued savings from their past wages. If pain is to be shared around, this is one group of recipients of social security that is more likely to be able to bear a share of the pain than others.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    @DavidL

    FPT

    That's where the debate sits on the right. I'd argue that GO has been too slow to address the real economy. The UK needs growth and won't get back to it until overdue reforms are enacted. It's a question of priorities and GO sets his on political bear traps rather than what the real world needs. In essence this is a wasted parliament for economic reform, since now nothing contoversial will be addressed before a GE, the next 2 years will be games and giveaways.

    So that's 7 years, before the UK addresses it's banking crash of 2008, 5 years until the tax code can be simplified ( it's bigger than when GO started ), 5 years when regulation grows apace etc.

    For a nation in crisis we are remarkably complacent.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Dan Hodges (or whoever does it) is not great at using PhotoShop.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Time to be rudely reminded of the sage wisdom of TV obsessive Philomena Cunk yet again.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSRXb2SesfE

    Golly. ;^ )

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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Alanbrooke The tax code will never be simplified in such a way that it gets shorter. Here's why:

    http://politicalbetting.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/negotiations-and-love-songs-why.html

    As you see, I was right about what I expected for this Parliament.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mini-plug/self-promotion: there's a new interview with me up here:
    http://www.indieauthorland.com/archives/3952

    For those who might be interested in the short comedy (which is coming along nicely) there's also a link to a first draft at the very first scene included in the interview.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Watching FMQs. Interesting stuff. Salmond is clearly well within his comfort zone. Ruth Davidson is one of the most convincing Tories I've seen in a long time.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Just having a look at the detail of the infrastructure announcement. There appear to be a rash of new "managed motorway" schemes. Does anyone have a good word to say about these?

    I find them a blight on the network, and the thought of having to drive through more stretches of them - during construction and when built - leaves me wishing the government would cut its capital spending again...
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited June 2013
    I can't think of a better time for this to come out - there are two years to ram this home and all but Evil Tory Haters will ignore it and they wouldn't give them credit for anything so nothing lost.

    "The double-dip recession never happened: Revised figures show economy performed better than thought

    - Economy did not shrink in first quarter of 2012, new data shows
    - Recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth
    - It means Britain last suffered a recession in 2008-09


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2349469/The-double-dip-recession-happened-Revised-figures-economy-performed-better-thought.html#ixzz2XPmacTV3

    PS Is anyone else being repeatedly thrown off Vanilla? I've signed in at least 3x already in 2hrs.

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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Does anyone know what's the Labour position on the Scottish budget cuts and loans? Clearly not something that the SNP has the power to do anything about directly.

    Could be a potent issue in the ref. debate and a possible USP for the red team north of the border in the GE.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653

    Dan Hodges (or whoever does it) is not great at using PhotoShop.

    I think it was supposed to look 'obvious'....but the New Statesman is a lot better:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fullnode_image/articles_2013/201326maguire.jpg
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Dan Hodges (or whoever does it) is not great at using PhotoShop.

    I think it was supposed to look 'obvious'....but the New Statesman is a lot better:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fullnode_image/articles_2013/201326maguire.jpg
    Ewwwwwww - that's just no, no, no.

    *reaches for mind-bleach*
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Plato said:



    "The double-dip recession never happened: Revised figures show economy performed better than thought

    - Economy did not shrink in first quarter of 2012, new data shows
    - Recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth
    - It means Britain last suffered a recession in 2008-09



    If anyone has access to Wikipedia, there is a recession to be removed from one of their lists...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_Kingdom
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    antifrank said:

    @Alanbrooke The tax code will never be simplified in such a way that it gets shorter. Here's why:

    http://politicalbetting.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/negotiations-and-love-songs-why.html

    As you see, I was right about what I expected for this Parliament.

    There are as ever AF a lot of valid points in what you have written. The basic premise comes down to us accepting less gimmickery and more responsibility if we are to simplify. Sadly none of our major parties is prepared to seriously pursue this path, they all want to micro manage us.

    Good news for lawyers though.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013
    tim said:

    Dan Hodges understands.

    In his wisdom he vaulted over the part where where Balls actually falls into this hypothetical trap by opposing the 7 days delay. Didn't stop him from saying little Ed and labour had marched into the trap though despite his amusingly grudging and sheepish admission later on that they hadn't. Nor did it stop him from opining that little Ed's problems had moved on from not supporting policies Dan likes to not being believed enough on policies Dan likes. Maybe not wearing the right tie when announcing policies that Dan likes will be his next crime?

    It sort of begs the question why on earth would anyone bother with Hodges when there are so many other right wing commentators saying the precise same things. Presumably because they're too thick to understand his little Ed fixation and blatantly obvious grudge against him is why the Telegraph pay him.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Jonathan said:

    Does anyone know what's the Labour position on the Scottish budget cuts and loans? Clearly not something that the SNP has the power to do anything about directly.

    Could be a potent issue in the ref. debate and a possible USP for the red team north of the border in the GE.

    given Labour don't know how could anyone else ?

    Maybe they should ask Osborne.
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    carlcarl Posts: 750
    Chuckle @pork & tim

    Anyway, on topic, whatever's going on here, the Tories should be very worried that they remain stubbornly stuck at core vote levels even as the UKIP surge subsides.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Plato said:

    Dan Hodges (or whoever does it) is not great at using PhotoShop.

    I think it was supposed to look 'obvious'....but the New Statesman is a lot better:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fullnode_image/articles_2013/201326maguire.jpg
    Ewwwwwww - that's just no, no, no.

    *reaches for mind-bleach*
    The dog that did not bark.....people wonder why the Sun wants to make Osborne look like a posh boy.....yet nobody asks why the New Statesman wants to make Ed look like a nancy boy.....

  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    tim said:

    JonathanD said:

    Plato said:



    "The double-dip recession never happened: Revised figures show economy performed better than thought

    - Economy did not shrink in first quarter of 2012, new data shows
    - Recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth
    - It means Britain last suffered a recession in 2008-09



    If anyone has access to Wikipedia, there is a recession to be removed from one of their lists...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_Kingdom

    Or not

    RBS Economic Insight ‏@RBS_Economics 2h
    Note to stats geeks: there still was the tiniest #doubledip, with Q1 2012 #GDP £26m lower than Q4 2011.
    grasping at straws tim. that will get revised upwards too.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited June 2013
    @NickP FPT

    "And Southam Observer is right about the despicable 7 day stuff, kicking people at precisely their most vulnerable moment. Ed Balls struck a good note with the reference to Wonga but Labour really needs to stop equivocating on this one and oppose it outright. I get that we are not committing to stuff until about April 30 2015, but mood music matters too."

    You make a very good point. I heard Ed B on Radio 4 and thought he was pretty good except for his obfuscation. I'm afraid the time has come where Labour have to stand up and be counted. I sense that the country are crying out for a reason to ditch this privileged and mean spirited bunch of charlatans but Labour owe it to the voters to give them some positive reasons to choose them.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Roger said:

    Ed B....was pretty good except for his obfuscation.

    Do you think they have a policy on obfuscation? Would be an interesting one to execute a U-turn on....

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,279

    tim said:

    JonathanD said:

    Plato said:




    "The double-dip recession never happened: Revised figures show economy performed better than thought

    - Economy did not shrink in first quarter of 2012, new data shows
    - Recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth
    - It means Britain last suffered a recession in 2008-09



    If anyone has access to Wikipedia, there is a recession to be removed from one of their lists...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_Kingdom

    Or not

    RBS Economic Insight ‏@RBS_Economics 2h
    Note to stats geeks: there still was the tiniest #doubledip, with Q1 2012 #GDP £26m lower than Q4 2011.
    grasping at straws tim. that will get revised upwards too.
    Guaranteed.

    “He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”

    ― George Orwell, 1984

  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Plato said:

    Dan Hodges (or whoever does it) is not great at using PhotoShop.

    I think it was supposed to look 'obvious'....but the New Statesman is a lot better:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fullnode_image/articles_2013/201326maguire.jpg
    Ewwwwwww - that's just no, no, no.

    *reaches for mind-bleach*
    The dog that did not bark.....people wonder why the Sun wants to make Osborne look like a posh boy.....yet nobody asks why the New Statesman wants to make Ed look like a nancy boy.....

    EdM looks like a Japan-fan reject in that pix - what were they thinking of? Labour leader does New Romantics doesn't seem the most obvious comparison to make.

    Is there a hint in the article to explain why?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Roger said:

    @NickP FPT

    "And Southam Observer is right about the despicable 7 day stuff, kicking people at precisely their most vulnerable moment. Ed Balls struck a good note with the reference to Wonga but Labour really needs to stop equivocating on this one and oppose it outright. I get that we are not committing to stuff until about April 30 2015, but mood music matters too."

    You make a very good point. I heard Ed B on Radio 4 and thought he was pretty good except for his obfuscation. I'm afraid the time has come where Labour have to stand up and be counted. I sense that the country are crying out for a reason to ditch this privileged and mean spirited bunch of charlatans but Labour owe it to the voters to give them some positive reasons to choose them.

    Sorry Roger, Labour are following Ed Baldrick's cunning plan of telling the voters nothing, ignoring communications and setting the scene and seeing what resonates. They might just publish their manifesto at lunchtime the day before the next election. In Urdu. Written upside down. With black ink on black paper.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Plato said:

    Plato said:

    Dan Hodges (or whoever does it) is not great at using PhotoShop.

    I think it was supposed to look 'obvious'....but the New Statesman is a lot better:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fullnode_image/articles_2013/201326maguire.jpg
    Ewwwwwww - that's just no, no, no.

    *reaches for mind-bleach*
    The dog that did not bark.....people wonder why the Sun wants to make Osborne look like a posh boy.....yet nobody asks why the New Statesman wants to make Ed look like a nancy boy.....

    Is there a hint in the article to explain why?
    "Does Ed Miliband wear make-up? The Labour leader’s face appeared powdered at the New Statesman’s centenary bash. Mili’s abrupt “No” when your columnist asked only served to fuel my suspicions.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/06/commons-confidential-dont-let-them-eat-cake

    But I don't think the implied effeminacy is accidental either.....
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Roger said:

    @NickP FPT

    I'm afraid the time has come...

    Really? I would have though now would be a bad time for the opposition to announce anything specific. The govt have played their hand, surely it's worth digesting that while everyone is off for the summer.
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    carlcarl Posts: 750
    So, according to PB Tories so far this morning, Labour have all of:

    1) no policies
    2) some vague policies that are the same as Osborne's
    3) some vague policies that they keep u-turning on
    4) some definite policies, like "handing out freebies", that are the wrong policies

    Missed anything?
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    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,417
    Getting ready to rate and assess everyone's coming grief Tim? Don't know how you will fit it in your busy schedule.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Jonathan said:

    Does anyone know what's the Labour position on the Scottish budget cuts and loans?

    Glorious confusion. SLAB so want to hammer the tories for it but they have to wait for approval from little Ed and Balls. It's why we knew there was going to be a spate of triangulation on tory policies before they were even announced. Lamont and SLAB had quite obviously been told to back off from going in hard on the bedroom tax, welfare and other cuts and started equivocating in a most amusing manner when questioned on them.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,279
    carl said:

    So, according to PB Tories so far this morning, Labour have all of:

    1) no policies
    2) some vague policies that are the same as Osborne's
    3) some vague policies that they keep u-turning on
    4) some definite policies, like "handing out freebies", that are the wrong policies

    Missed anything?

    5) all of the above?

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    carl said:

    Missed anything?

    Why don't you tell us what Labour policies are?

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    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,417
    Let me know if you and your fellow leftie Osbourne stalkers want or don't want Osbourne to cry at Mandela's death.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    The PB tories whining about hamburgers now prattling on about little Ed and makeup.

    The word is unspoofable. ;^ )
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited June 2013

    Plato said:

    Dan Hodges (or whoever does it) is not great at using PhotoShop.

    I think it was supposed to look 'obvious'....but the New Statesman is a lot better:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fullnode_image/articles_2013/201326maguire.jpg
    Ewwwwwww - that's just no, no, no.

    *reaches for mind-bleach*
    The dog that did not bark.....people wonder why the Sun wants to make Osborne look like a posh boy.....yet nobody asks why the New Statesman wants to make Ed look like a nancy boy.....

    Ed looks just like a man-servant to an 18th century fop.

    Light opera lovers will call it a trouser role.

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @NickPalmer

    "And Southam Observer is right about the despicable 7 day stuff, kicking people at precisely their most vulnerable moment."

    Nonsense - if you lose your job, I can't think of one I've had that didn't pay 1 week in arrears or longer.

    Frankly - needing to sign-on once a week is a much bigger cost for those who aren't within a walk /short bus ride of their dole office.

    For me to get to my JCP and back costs over £8 plus a 4 mile walk. To do that every week rather than once every two is the price of several days food or power. Those in rural areas will be penalised by this quite significantly.
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    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,417
    Mick Pork, I only hope that Ed Miliband only wore very cheap lippie and blusher and not the sort that costs oh about £10.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    carl said:

    So, according to PB Tories so far this morning, Labour have all of:

    1) no policies
    2) some vague policies that are the same as Osborne's
    3) some vague policies that they keep u-turning on
    4) some definite policies, like "handing out freebies", that are the wrong policies

    Missed anything?

    Tell you what Carl why don't you clear things up and tell us what Labour's policies are ? Start with the economy since that's topical.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Welsh NHS is having a mare - here's Part 94... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23073768

    Operations have been delayed and waiting lists allowed to grow at hospitals in north Wales to avoid financial problems getting worse, according to a damning report.

    "Significant management failings" risked patient safety for under-reporting infections.

    The chairman and chief executive of Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board are to step down after the findings.

    Health and audit watchdogs found a catalogue of problems.

    BCUHB runs NHS services in north Wales with a budget of around £1.2bn.

    Healthcare Inspectorate Wales (HIW) and the Wales Audit Office (WAO) found a series of problems at the health board, which runs Ysbyty Gwynedd, Glan Clwyd and Wrexham Maelor hospitals.

    They included finding that the relationship between chairman Prof Merfyn Jones and chief executive Mary Burrows had broken down and compromised the organisation.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,982
    I know pollsters have got pretty sophisticated about how they ask the questions, but there must be some genuine don't knows but will vote about.
    Has anyone any definite facts about how many of those describing themselves as voters are really soft about their intentions?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    @NickP FPT

    I'm afraid the time has come...

    Really? I would have though now would be a bad time for the opposition to announce anything specific. The govt have played their hand, surely it's worth digesting that while everyone is off for the summer.


    Ed : I agree with Jeffrey
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Plato said:

    Plato said:

    Dan Hodges (or whoever does it) is not great at using PhotoShop.

    I think it was supposed to look 'obvious'....but the New Statesman is a lot better:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fullnode_image/articles_2013/201326maguire.jpg
    Ewwwwwww - that's just no, no, no.

    *reaches for mind-bleach*
    The dog that did not bark.....people wonder why the Sun wants to make Osborne look like a posh boy.....yet nobody asks why the New Statesman wants to make Ed look like a nancy boy.....

    Is there a hint in the article to explain why?
    "Does Ed Miliband wear make-up? The Labour leader’s face appeared powdered at the New Statesman’s centenary bash. Mili’s abrupt “No” when your columnist asked only served to fuel my suspicions.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/06/commons-confidential-dont-let-them-eat-cake

    But I don't think the implied effeminacy is accidental either.....
    How peculiar - I can't say I've ever thought of EdM as being effeminate - an appalling dresser and a panda yes. Who can forget his shiny wedding suit?

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-X8PyfenqpTE/TeInNxDccuI/AAAAAAAAB3Q/365xFVvYHp8/s1600/EdMilibandWeddingSuit.jpg It just shrieks 1980s.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    AveryLP said:

    Plato said:

    Dan Hodges (or whoever does it) is not great at using PhotoShop.

    I think it was supposed to look 'obvious'....but the New Statesman is a lot better:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fullnode_image/articles_2013/201326maguire.jpg
    Ewwwwwww - that's just no, no, no.

    *reaches for mind-bleach*
    The dog that did not bark.....people wonder why the Sun wants to make Osborne look like a posh boy.....yet nobody asks why the New Statesman wants to make Ed look like a nancy boy.....

    Ed looks just like a man-servant to an 18th century fop.

    Light opera lovers will call it a trouser role.

    Ed Miliband as Cherubino.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgfAWJbjvGg


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    carlcarl Posts: 750
    I can't think of one I've had that didn't pay 1 week in arrears or longer.

    Is it not 7 days before you can even claim? You only actually receive money some time after that. If the monthly payments are introduced, could potentially be 5 weeks, perhaps longer before you have any financial support after losing your job. Not pretty.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Plato said:

    Plato said:

    Plato said:

    Dan Hodges (or whoever does it) is not great at using PhotoShop.

    I think it was supposed to look 'obvious'....but the New Statesman is a lot better:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fullnode_image/articles_2013/201326maguire.jpg
    Ewwwwwww - that's just no, no, no.

    *reaches for mind-bleach*
    The dog that did not bark.....people wonder why the Sun wants to make Osborne look like a posh boy.....yet nobody asks why the New Statesman wants to make Ed look like a nancy boy.....

    Is there a hint in the article to explain why?
    "Does Ed Miliband wear make-up? The Labour leader’s face appeared powdered at the New Statesman’s centenary bash. Mili’s abrupt “No” when your columnist asked only served to fuel my suspicions.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/06/commons-confidential-dont-let-them-eat-cake

    But I don't think the implied effeminacy is accidental either.....
    How peculiar - I can't say I've ever thought of EdM as being effeminate
    I suspect its more a commentary on his policy robustness, rather than his masculinity....

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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013
    AveryLP said:

    Plato said:

    Dan Hodges (or whoever does it) is not great at using PhotoShop.

    I think it was supposed to look 'obvious'....but the New Statesman is a lot better:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fullnode_image/articles_2013/201326maguire.jpg
    Ewwwwwww - that's just no, no, no.

    *reaches for mind-bleach*
    The dog that did not bark.....people wonder why the Sun wants to make Osborne look like a posh boy.....yet nobody asks why the New Statesman wants to make Ed look like a nancy boy.....

    Ed looks just like a man-servant to an 18th century fop.

    Light opera lovers will call it a trouser role.

    Perhaps little Ed should knock up some airbrushed posters for the election campaign?
    Because nobody would be that stupid, would they? ;^ )

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWut7c19SCg



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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    carl said:

    I can't think of one I've had that didn't pay 1 week in arrears or longer.

    Is it not 7 days before you can even claim? You only actually receive money some time after that. If the monthly payments are introduced, could potentially be 5 weeks, perhaps longer before you have any financial support after losing your job. Not pretty.

    policies Carl, policies, any chance you can clear things up ? several posters have invited you to tell us what Labour's policies are. Any chance ?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ukip appear to be crap - hence why they share voters with Labour.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    The Wonga coup: Chancellor George Osborne's 'gift to the payday lenders' in Government Spending Review

    At present, the unemployed are not eligible for Jobseeker's Allowance for three days. But charities and pressure groups warned that extending that to seven days would cause unnecessary hardship.

    Chris Mould, executive chairman of the Trussell Trust, which has launched 325 foodbanks, told The Independent that 30 per cent of the 346,000 people it helped in 2012-13 were referred to them because of benefit delays and a further 15 per cent due to benefit changes. "Any decision that delays further the timely receipt of social security will make things worse for some," he said. "Lots of people are referred to us because they already have problems with debts, many with short term loan organisations."

    Alison Gardham, chief executive of Child Poverty Action Group, condemned the seven-day wait as a "foodbanks first policy." She said: "There should be no doubt this will leave more families and children cold and hungry and push more families towards doorstep lenders and foodbanks."

    Fiona Weir, chief executive of Gingerbread, which represents lone parents, said: "We know that any delay in benefit payments is crippling for single parent families. With an additional seven-day wait, we fear many more will be forced to rely on food banks and payday loans to make up the new shortfall."

    The Catholic Church said: "The proposed seven-day wait before jobseekers can claim benefits could cause severe financial hardship for families who are already trying to balance tight budgets and meet rent payments. Without robust safeguards in place, the requirement that claimants learn English has the potential to penalise some of the most vulnerable members of society."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-wonga-coup-chancellor-george-osbornes-gift-to-the-payday-lenders-in-government-spending-review-8675581.html
    Or we could believe PB tory anecdote. That's a tough one.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    Ukip appear to be crap - hence why they share voters with Labour.


    15% of 2010 Tory voters are UKIP in this poll, 4% of Labour.

    4:1 ratio, same as it ever was.
    same as it ever was

    you're on a road to nowhere
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    "Byron burgers confirmed today that they don't deliver either"

    Burgers? Oh come on guys you can do better than this.

    I notice there's been quite a bit of playing the man from the left in the last few days. Is that because labour essentially agree with the coalition's policies?
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    Obsorne defends his 'posh' Byron burger Twitter picture saying 'McDonald's don't deliver'

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/obsorne-defends-his-posh-byron-burger-twitter-picture-saying-mcdonalds-dont-deliver-8676704.html

    "Byron burgers confirmed today that they don't deliver either"

    Perhaps it was because George ordered a double dip with his potato skins.

    "Clean out of those, Sir!"

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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    taffys said:

    "Byron burgers confirmed today that they don't deliver either"

    Burgers? Oh come on guys you can do better than this.

    I notice there's been quite a bit of playing the man from the left in the last few days. Is that because labour essentially agree with the coalition's policies?

    it's because they have no policies. So what's left but to play the man ?
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    carlcarl Posts: 750

    carl said:

    I can't think of one I've had that didn't pay 1 week in arrears or longer.

    Is it not 7 days before you can even claim? You only actually receive money some time after that. If the monthly payments are introduced, could potentially be 5 weeks, perhaps longer before you have any financial support after losing your job. Not pretty.

    policies Carl, policies, any chance you can clear things up ? several posters have invited you to tell us what Labour's policies are. Any chance ?
    As I understand it, they've said they'll stick to Osborne's overall spending envelope. But can't set out many detailed policies this far out because they don't know what shape things will be in, which is sensible / standard opposition trick, or both (depending on your viewpoint).

    As far as specific policies go, bringing back the 10p tax paid for by a mansion tax springs to mind. There's not many, maybe one or two others I think, but I'm sure you can find / make them up as appropriate.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited June 2013
    Let's get this straight,the next election will not come down to who you want to be PM,but who you want to run our economy/finances.

    It's a crap choice - but I still think Osborne/tories will need 5 more years to pull us through this crisis.
    \/

    George Osborne or Ed balls
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    edited June 2013
    The New Statesman makes the argument the two Eds are scared to:

    How the Lib Dems broke their promise to block new welfare cuts
    The party vowed to block further welfare cuts but the seven-day wait for benefits amounts to a £245m cut.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/06/how-lib-dems-broke-their-promise-block-new-welfare-cuts
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Mick_Pork said:
    Or we could believe PB tory anecdote. That's a tough one.

    Perhaps Labour could call this the "naive" tax - a penalty for those to stupid to forward plan by retaining some savings.

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    MontyMonty Posts: 346
    The 7 day wait is cruel and mean in the extreme. I would expect most people to have sympathy with anyone who has just lost their job so it may not be as popular as Osborne thinks it will. It also shows a shocking lack of understanding about what real poverty means. I would expect nothing less from him.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    carl said:

    carl said:

    I can't think of one I've had that didn't pay 1 week in arrears or longer.

    Is it not 7 days before you can even claim? You only actually receive money some time after that. If the monthly payments are introduced, could potentially be 5 weeks, perhaps longer before you have any financial support after losing your job. Not pretty.

    policies Carl, policies, any chance you can clear things up ? several posters have invited you to tell us what Labour's policies are. Any chance ?
    As I understand it, they've said they'll stick to Osborne's overall spending envelope. But can't set out many detailed policies this far out because they don't know what shape things will be in, which is sensible / standard opposition trick, or both (depending on your viewpoint).

    As far as specific policies go, bringing back the 10p tax paid for by a mansion tax springs to mind. There's not many, maybe one or two others I think, but I'm sure you can find / make them up as appropriate.
    You're struggling mate, I sympathise. It's mushroom politics.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    We had the same people and vested interests whining when some benefits went from weekly to monthly

    "Poor people can't budget - it's so cruel"

    Patronising.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited June 2013
    TGOHF said:

    Mick_Pork said:
    Or we could believe PB tory anecdote. That's a tough one.
    Perhaps Labour could call this the "naive" tax - a penalty for those to stupid to forward plan by retaining some savings.



    Perhaps you should stick that on a poster with "vote conservative" and add something about "let them eat cake".

    You clearly don't remember why the tories elected Cammie as leader in the first place.
    Ask Theresa May since she at least knew that becoming the nasty party made you unelectable for more than a decade. Cammie's own polling is now on a par with the tory brand and if you don't understand what that means then that would be your problem.

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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,815
    edited June 2013
    So The Boy's "Double Dip" never happened, but Labour's recession was even worst than the already terrible recession we all thought it was.

    Any comment on these developments Tim?
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    There's lots of data but not from YouGov which doesn't factor in certainty to vote.

    The other established pollsters all have different approaches.

    I know pollsters have got pretty sophisticated about how they ask the questions, but there must be some genuine don't knows but will vote about.
    Has anyone any definite facts about how many of those describing themselves as voters are really soft about their intentions?

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Great poll for Labour. Most worrying for CON will be to see that as UKIP support goes up, CON support goes down, but as UKIP support goes down, CON support seems to remain static...
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836
    I don't think the average Labour lead has shifted at all in June (although today's lead is at the top of the range). The average lead throughout the month has been 8.2%, which I think is a touch down on the pre-local election figure.

    Barring a by-election, UKIP's numbers should gradually subside, although they remain well up, on average, compared to 12 months ago.

    UKIP will surge again, in the run up to next year's Euro elections, and this will also win them plenty of seats in the local elections that are held on the same day.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Mick_Pork said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mick_Pork said:
    Or we could believe PB tory anecdote. That's a tough one.
    Perhaps Labour could call this the "naive" tax - a penalty for those to stupid to forward plan by retaining some savings.

    Perhaps you should stick that on a poster with "vote conservative" and add something about "let them eat cake".

    You clearly don't remember why the tories elected Cammie as leader in the first place.
    Ask Theresa May since she at least knew that becoming the nasty party made you unelectable for well over a decade.



    I'm not a party member Pork - just a voter - and one that doesn't like metropolitan socialists patronising the less fortunate - like the vested interests in your post.

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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    TGOHF : Being a Tory is a luxury that most of us can't afford, I'm afraid.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    The new beacon of truth and wisdom (says tim) the Speccie fisks Balls

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/fraser-nelson/2013/06/audio-ed-balls-peddles-myths-again/

    "Poor old Ed Balls. His economic policy seems to be imploding, and he was this morning reduced to concocting stories about the Wicked Tories. "
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    'Democracy: How We Don’t Really Have It'

    Some wonder why we Yes Scotland supporters are seemingly so desperate to cut all political ties with the rest of the UK (rUK) when we already have our own devolved parliament at Holyrood. Why do we want to stir things up and drag ourselves through unnecessary turmoil? Who would be so mad as to do that??

    People who value the principles of democracy.

    I thought to myself ‘what if the UK as a whole was in a similar position to Scotland at Westminster?’. What if the 3rd and 4th placed parties governed in coalition for England? A totally hypothetical question, of course – yet not irrelevant to the current debate. We in Scotland – as indeed in Wales and Northern Ireland too – are governed by a coalition that the vast majority of our electorate rejected at the ballot box.

    So I applied the same rules to the UK as a whole, using the 3rd and 4th placed parties as the hypothetical coalition government.

    Using vote percentage, this would result in a Lib Dem/UKIP government. What a lovely thought!


    http://scottishindy2014.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/democracy-how-we-dont-really-have-it/
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Monty said:

    The 7 day wait is cruel and mean in the extreme..

    And the existing 3 day wait - set by Labour is not?

    And if it is "cruel and mean in the extreme" - why have the two Eds not denounced it unequivocally?
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "A Ladbrokes shop took a £200k bet on Scotland voting NO to independence next year"

    Presumably that's the old trick of a campaign supporter (or supporters) betting large sums to distort the headline betting odds. Well, it didn't work for Chris Huhne.
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    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,417
    It seems now that lefties are in love with McDonalds . all I heard for years from them was that it was a multinational (therefore might not be paying its fair share of tax) that made poor people fat and of course the lefties look to deride 'McJobs' . To add to this it is so obviously american .

    Roll on Wednesday the 26th June 2013 and they are frothing at the mouth that the Chancellor did NOT order from McDonalds -You couldn't make it up

    Why is McDonalds so good now Tim ?
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    These pollsters are completely unreliable. I would not take any notice. UKIP are still soaring in local byelections, no different to May.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    At 4/1 YES is starting to look interesting.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF : Being a Tory is a luxury that most of us can't afford, I'm afraid.

    Luckily for you prejudice and class war are free James.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    @JamesKelly - good luck negotiating EU accession:

    "There is one other parliament where we have less influence than we should: the European Parliament.

    Scotland has a population of roughly 5.25 million. We have 6 MEPs representing us in Europe. Malta has a population of 0.45million. They have 6 MEPs representing them in Europe. That’s a country with 8.6% of the population that we have with an identical number of MEPs. That simply can’t be right, by anyone’s reckoning. Independent countries of similar size to Scotland have double that: Ireland (with 4.5million citizens) has 12 MEPs, Slovakia and Denmark with 5.4-5.5million have 13. Considering that the Scottish Parliament covers legislation on the majority of our civic issues, we are grossly under-represented at the European level – where politicians legislate on mainly civic issues."
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    antifrank said:

    At 40/1 YES is starting to look interesting.

    Fixed that for you.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    TGOHF said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mick_Pork said:
    Or we could believe PB tory anecdote. That's a tough one.
    Perhaps Labour could call this the "naive" tax - a penalty for those to stupid to forward plan by retaining some savings.

    Perhaps you should stick that on a poster with "vote conservative" and add something about "let them eat cake".

    You clearly don't remember why the tories elected Cammie as leader in the first place.
    Ask Theresa May since she at least knew that becoming the nasty party made you unelectable for well over a decade.

    I'm not a party member Pork - just a voter - and one that doesn't like metropolitan socialists patronising the less fortunate - like the vested interests in your post.



    *tears of laughter etc.*

    So hopelessly out of touch yet so completely oblivious to it.

    So according to you the Trussell Trust and their 325 foodbanks, the Child Poverty Action Group, Gingerbread who represent lone parents and the Catholic Church are ALL "vested interests" and "metropolitan socialists patronising the less fortunate".

    You remember when the chumocracy referred to certain right wingers as "mad swivel-eyed loons", who do you think they were talking about?

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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    TGOHF : Being a Tory is a luxury that most of us can't afford, I'm afraid.

    Being labour is even worse james.

    But the ONS said the recession in 2008 was deeper than previously estimated.

    Gross domestic product (GDP) during that time is now estimated to have dropped by 7.2% from peak to trough, against a 6.3% fall previously recorded.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23079082

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    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,417
    If I bet 200K I would be a campaign supporter as well!!

    I hope he loses ,if only to get rid of whinging 'its all England's fault' types
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF : Being a Tory is a luxury that most of us can't afford, I'm afraid.

    Luckily for you prejudice and class war are free James.
    Oh please, don't start him off.
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "@JamesKelly - good luck negotiating EU accession"

    Thankyou for the moral support, but as you know the UK government's advisers feel that the timetable suggested by the SNP for negotiating continued EU membership is "realistic".

    I take it you feel that underrepresentation in the European Parliament is a good thing for Scotland?
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    On topic, I would treat YouGov with a touch of scepticism given the way the established three are prompted for whereas UKIP isn't. That said, the figures do give some idea of how shallow UKIP's support is.

    One other feature of the figures is how stable the other numbers are, with 31/39/10 as a standard. The Labour figure does look like a bit of an outlier at the moment, without any obvious prompt to provoke a 2% shift, and I suspect is linked to Mike's point about UKIP's non-visibility i.e. it's people with very soft party identification looking to register a protest against the government. (That 'others' has also risen a point or two since the start of the month may also be part of the same protest).
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    "A Ladbrokes shop took a £200k bet on Scotland voting NO to independence next year"

    Presumably that's the old trick of a campaign supporter (or supporters) betting large sums to distort the headline betting odds. Well, it didn't work for Chris Huhne.

    Or maybe they've read the polls and seen the campaign so far.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    @CarlottaVance Good luck finding out if Cammie supports staying IN or OUT of Europe for his own Cast Iron Referendum.
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Oh please, don't start him off."

    And a very good afternoon to you too, Alan. How are you today?
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413

    And if it is "cruel and mean in the extreme" - why have the two Eds not denounced it unequivocally?

    Yes, really terrible. Clearly the end of civilised life as we know it. After all, in the Western world only evil ideologically extreme right-wing countries like Sweden (7 days), Denmark (3 weeks if you were self-employed), Finland (7 days), or Switzerland (5 days) would even think of such a cruel measure.

    http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progdesc/ssptw/2012-2013/europe/switzerland.html
    http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progdesc/ssptw/2012-2013/europe/finland.html
    http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progdesc/ssptw/2012-2013/europe/denmark.html
    http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progdesc/ssptw/2012-2013/europe/sweden.html
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    JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Or maybe they've read the polls and seen the campaign so far."

    Maybe, but if so, why on earth would they bet £200,000 at...what was it, 1/5? 1/6? On any rational view of the campaign and the polls (Yes just eight points behind in the latest one), that's crazy.
This discussion has been closed.