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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Night hawks is now open

SystemSystem Posts: 11,018
edited July 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Night hawks is now open

House Of Lords To Get £100,000 New Toilets. The cost of refurbishing two small toilets at the House of Lords with “historic oak panelling” will be met by taxpayers.

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    First?
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,203
    Aargh! The curse of the new thread. So FPT on Egypt:

    There will never be democracy in the Arab world until its people understand (a) that one's creed should not be a basis for citizenship, government or law; and (b) the legitimacy of people having different (even radically different) views on matters of public policy - in short the concept of loyal opposition while still being patriots. Habits of thought are needed for democracy not simply elections and parties and the processes attached to those.

    It took the West a long time to understand both points and, arguably, we had a better starting point.

    Until then all the changes we are seeing are simply different groups vying for, achieving or being thrown out of power - with different degrees of violence.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,982
    Good evening, everyone.

    Indeed, Miss Cyclefree. There's such a thing as tyranny of the majority, as Coptic Christians in Egypt probably know rather well. Just because 51% of people support something does not make it right, if that thing involves oppression of others.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390
    edited July 2013
    I nearly put this into nighthawks with the following headline

    Not the first relationship to end shortly after the guy has troubles with a burst rubber

    Nicole Scherzinger and Lewis Hamilton split after five years together

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2352185/Nicole-Scherzinger-Lewis-Hamilton-split-years-together.html#ixzz2XpKile6w
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,982
    Mr. Eagles, in 2011 Hamilton's form was very poor on-track due to similar problems off-track. Hopefully it won't affect him the same way this time.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390

    Mr. Eagles, in 2011 Hamilton's form was very poor on-track due to similar problems off-track. Hopefully it won't affect him the same way this time.

    Understandable, my life would suffer if I stopped having sex with Nicole Scherzinger
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It appears that Egypt is fast becoming a Banana Republic.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390
    antifrank said:

    It appears that Egypt is fast becoming a Banana Republic.

    Hah, I nearly put that into nighthawks.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    antifrank said:

    It appears that Egypt is fast becoming a Banana Republic.

    Well it is certainly split.

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    asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    "There will never be democracy in the Arab world until its people understand (a) that one's creed should not be a basis for citizenship, government or law"

    So, in short, until they abandon Islam ?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962

    "There will never be democracy in the Arab world until its people understand (a) that one's creed should not be a basis for citizenship, government or law"

    So, in short, until they abandon Islam ?

    Just need to separate church from state (I know, a lot easier said than done).
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390
    I won't make any of my bigoted Norfolk jokes this time.

    A housing association in Norfolk helping tenants cope with changes to housing benefits have drawn inspiration from an unlikely source - speed dating.

    The Wherry Housing Association is running an event in Norwich to help people swap houses and so avoid the under-occupation penalty.

    It hopes to match up tenants looking to downsize or who want a bigger house.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-23124280
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Cyclefree said:

    Aargh! The curse of the new thread. So FPT on Egypt:

    There will never be democracy in the Arab world until its people understand (a) that one's creed should not be a basis for citizenship, government or law; and (b) the legitimacy of people having different (even radically different) views on matters of public policy - in short the concept of loyal opposition while still being patriots. Habits of thought are needed for democracy not simply elections and parties and the processes attached to those.

    It took the West a long time to understand both points and, arguably, we had a better starting point.

    Until then all the changes we are seeing are simply different groups vying for, achieving or being thrown out of power - with different degrees of violence.

    I agree,

    The basis of post-enlightenment politics is the seperation of Church and State politically, even if some symbolic aspects are kept.

    Theocracy, whether Islamic or otherwise, over-rides individual human rights with the rules of the state religion, which are given more importance.

    Interesting to see the Cairo University graduation photos over the years:

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/the_veil_falls_on_cairo/

    Similarly an Iraqi friend of mine showed me her medical school graduation album the other day, from the 1980's. The big hair and shoulder pads would have fitted well with the medical school photos of my own year, or TSE's musical obsessions. Her niece cannot go out without a Niqab in Baghdad now, for fear of attack by militias. So sad.

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,989
    edited July 2013

    Mr. Eagles, in 2011 Hamilton's form was very poor on-track due to similar problems off-track. Hopefully it won't affect him the same way this time.

    Understandable, my life would suffer if I stopped having sex with Nicole Scherzinger
    My life would suffer if I started having sex with Nicole.

    Mrs J can wield a mean knife, and I do not wish to sing castrato.

    On Egypt: it is an utter mess. I'm starting to think that a military coup might be the only way to get some sanity back into the country, and that is not a thought that comes easily to me. Whatever happens, there is going to be more bloodshed: it just depends if it is going to be a small or large amount. Too many groups have followers and a will to rule.

    (Edit: Cyclefree: thanks for an excellent post)
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    carlcarl Posts: 750
    Gosh, so much bad news for Labour today, according to TSE's "roundup".
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    rEd's hero. Paywall
    President Hollande, who came to power last year pledging to end austerity in Europe, will reverse course today with plans for the most draconian budget cuts in France in at least 50 years.

    His Socialist-led Government is expected to set the scene for a showdown with state-sector unions as it moves to break with post-war tradition by reducing public spending in real terms. The cuts come with Mr Hollande’s popularity at rock bottom amid claims that he has reneged on his electoral promise to bring back growth through Keynesian economics.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,203

    Good evening, everyone.

    Indeed, Miss Cyclefree. There's such a thing as tyranny of the majority, as Coptic Christians in Egypt probably know rather well. Just because 51% of people support something does not make it right, if that thing involves oppression of others.

    I think it's even worse than the tyranny of the majority. It's rather the belief that certain groups of people are simply not true Egyptians or Syrians or whatever, based on their religion or tribe or some other characteristic. It's the lack of any real belief in any sort of pluralistic system i.e. that there is a range of ideas and that people are free to choose between them and persuade others to follow them but that in the space of the nation there is room for all of them and whoever has power for a limited period of time is there to represent and govern all of society not just their particular tribe or religious grouping.

    That mode of thinking is not one which can easily be grafted onto people, especially after a long period of tyrannical or authoritarian rule, especially when there is no historical experience to look back at. Even in Eastern European countries we can see a tendency for governments to treat opponents as somehow illegitimate even for daring to voice criticism.

    The Arabs have tried a sort of pan-Arabism, sometimes allied with socialism and Baathism (an offshoot of Fascism) and more or less benevolent monarchies and now Islamist politics seems to have taken centre stage. Nowhere has any sort of real democratic frame of mind developed.

    It's as if parts of the region are in the 16thC, some in the 17th, some in Revolutionary France and some possibly in c. 1848, some still in the 7th C and others undergoing the 30 Years War with a dash of Communism / Fascism from the future thrown in.

    It is very sad for those suffering there of course and for those who hope / hoped for something better.



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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges
    Ed Miliband needs to sack Tom Watson > Telegraph > http://tinyurl.com/qd33c8f

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,982
    Mr. Jessop, I'm afraid it's too late for you.

    To become a castrati[sp] the male must be castrated prior to adolescence. You shall never have such a beautiful singing voice, or the increased life expectancy.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,076
    " The good news. It just keeps coming, and coming, and coming. "

    But what shows no sign of coming is Avery's prediction of when Britain gets the first month of trade surplus.

    ;-)


  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,989

    Mr. Jessop, I'm afraid it's too late for you.

    To become a castrati[sp] the male must be castrated prior to adolescence. You shall never have such a beautiful singing voice, or the increased life expectancy.

    I am a computer programmer who likes trains and rambling.

    I have yet to reach adolescence.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,203
    Tim: Pretty much every country in the EU has, I believe (so willing to stand corrected) some sort of recognition of marriage in the tax system. For someone with so strong a pro-EU view, why is Nick Clegg so critical of adopting a similar measure? (I leave aside the question of whether it can be afforded.)
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,203

    "There will never be democracy in the Arab world until its people understand (a) that one's creed should not be a basis for citizenship, government or law"

    So, in short, until they abandon Islam ?

    Until they stop seeing it as the sole source of political, intellectual or cultural legitimacy. And indeed until they remember their own history where the majority of people living in what is now the Middle East were - long before Islam took hold - Christians and Jews and people of all sorts of other faiths. Arab Christians, for instance, have been in the Middle East for far longer than Islam and yet are being marginalised and driven abroad if they want any sort of future because they are not seen, somehow, as "proper" Arabs. Arabs are destroying their own rich and varied history rather than seeing and using it as a source of strength.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,332
    Cyclefree said:

    Aargh! The curse of the new thread. So FPT on Egypt:

    There will never be democracy in the Arab world until its people understand (a) that one's creed should not be a basis for citizenship, government or law; and (b) the legitimacy of people having different (even radically different) views on matters of public policy - in short the concept of loyal opposition while still being patriots. Habits of thought are needed for democracy not simply elections and parties and the processes attached to those.

    It took the West a long time to understand both points and, arguably, we had a better starting point.

    I am not sure that a Martian whose experience of politics was limited to reading PB would conclude that we have quite achieved (b) yet ourselves.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,930
    Debbie Harry is 68 today. That frightens me.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390

    Debbie Harry is 68 today. That frightens me.

    Have you seen the Blondie Roundabout?

    http://www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/969440_570359659670998_1997351894_n.jpg
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    While I know I am beginning to sound like a broken record, can I point everyone in the direction of the latest Markit indicators regarding Spain: for the first time in more than two years, there was a number of 50. That is, the manufacturing purchasing managers' index is no longer negative.

    Spain has basically taken a leaf out of the first Thatcher government, and introduced the most remarkable labour reform laws. It has also (successfully, by and large) encouraged pay cuts in the private sector, and (following Ireland's example) put through public sector wage cuts. (Not freezes, actual cuts.)

    And now - despite horrendous, horrible, pain - this is working. Call me a starry-eyed optimist if you like, but I think Spain could be an extraordinary opportunity in the next three to five years.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    tim said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Tim: Pretty much every country in the EU has, I believe (so willing to stand corrected) some sort of recognition of marriage in the tax system. For someone with so strong a pro-EU view, why is Nick Clegg so critical of adopting a similar measure? (I leave aside the question of whether it can be afforded.)

    I think Cleggs view is that the time families need most support is when they have young children and many European countries recognise that in the tax system don't they?

    The Cameron view (as opposed to the Major Govt, Ken Clarke and now George Osborne reportedly) is that a 60 year old on his third marriage should get a tax break.
    I very much like the French pro-natal policies: your top rate of tax varies according to how many children you have. Have none, and you'll pay a fortune. Have four, and you'll pay a lower top rate of tax than we have in the UK. A brilliant way of encouraging people to have babies.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,203
    tim said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Tim: Pretty much every country in the EU has, I believe (so willing to stand corrected) some sort of recognition of marriage in the tax system. For someone with so strong a pro-EU view, why is Nick Clegg so critical of adopting a similar measure? (I leave aside the question of whether it can be afforded.)

    I think Cleggs view is that the time families need most support is when they have young children and many European countries recognise that in the tax system don't they?

    The Cameron view (as opposed to the Major Govt, Ken Clarke and now George Osborne reportedly) is that a 60 year old on his third marriage should get a tax break.
    If that is Clegg's view I don't disagree. It would mean some sort of merging of child benefit / marriage tax allowance to help families when they need it most.

    Not much chance of that happening now, I guess.

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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited July 2013
    tim said:

    "Privately, the PM accepts that he must force Ukip down to five per cent if he is to stand a chance."

    Sounds about right

    @TimMontgomerie: Victory for Conservatives remains "distant prospect". @BenedictBrogan right to pour cold water on recent Tory hopes http://t.co/zXggFpIxrx

    Clearly after NF and the kippers have been fading what Cammie, Osbrowne and the inept tory spinners need to do to really finish them off is bang on about Europe or immigration again.

    As if by magic, one master strategy coming right up. ;)
    Reuters UK Online ‏@reuters_co_uk

    Cameron in coalition clash over EU referendum http://reut.rs/1cIwLFq
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Debbie Harry is 68 today. That frightens me.

    Have you seen the Blondie Roundabout?

    http://www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/969440_570359659670998_1997351894_n.jpg
    Like!

    I saw Blondie a couple of years back, Debbie Harry was struggling a bit with the high notes, and we are in the era where "moves like Jagger" is featured in physiotherapy referrals.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,203

    Cyclefree said:

    Aargh! The curse of the new thread. So FPT on Egypt:

    There will never be democracy in the Arab world until its people understand (a) that one's creed should not be a basis for citizenship, government or law; and (b) the legitimacy of people having different (even radically different) views on matters of public policy - in short the concept of loyal opposition while still being patriots. Habits of thought are needed for democracy not simply elections and parties and the processes attached to those.

    It took the West a long time to understand both points and, arguably, we had a better starting point.

    I am not sure that a Martian whose experience of politics was limited to reading PB would conclude that we have quite achieved (b) yet ourselves.
    Indeed: even well established democracies sometimes find it difficult to accept that opponents are as well meaning as oneself even if having a different view.

    Still I think that one of the best things about PB is that it is possible to engage with someone with an opposing view in a friendly and polite manner (certainly for those of us without Sean T's talent for invective!)

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited July 2013

    " The good news. It just keeps coming, and coming, and coming. "

    But what shows no sign of coming is Avery's prediction of when Britain gets the first month of trade surplus.

    ;-)


    ar

    The first of the month is when DECC update their Oil and Gas production stats on the internet. Unfortunately, the figures are released three months in arrears so we only got March 2013 today.

    A quick look at the three totals for oil, associated gas and dry gas shows that North Sea output is continuing in rapid decline.

    This is surprising as on a couple of occasions in the past three months, BoE officials have mentioned in speeches and interviews that North Sea production has been recovering and underpinning prospects for increased growth,

    Well, no real sign of it in Quarter 1, at least on an annual basis. Q3 & Q4 2012 were weak due to unscheduled shutdowns of major fields (mainly Buzzard) which might have boosted Q1 2013 on Q4 2012 growth, but that is not a recovery.

    So unless there is a big jump in Q2 2013, then it is difficult to see what the BoE have been going on about.

    And until or unless Oil and Gas output recovers there is no short or medium term prospect of the UK recording a monthly Balance of Trade surplus.

    I'll update you in three months time when DECC finally get to post the complete Q2 figures!

    In the meantime get fracking!

  • Options
    carlcarl Posts: 750
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Aargh! The curse of the new thread. So FPT on Egypt:

    There will never be democracy in the Arab world until its people understand (a) that one's creed should not be a basis for citizenship, government or law; and (b) the legitimacy of people having different (even radically different) views on matters of public policy - in short the concept of loyal opposition while still being patriots. Habits of thought are needed for democracy not simply elections and parties and the processes attached to those.

    It took the West a long time to understand both points and, arguably, we had a better starting point.

    I am not sure that a Martian whose experience of politics was limited to reading PB would conclude that we have quite achieved (b) yet ourselves.
    one of the best things about PB is that it is possible to engage with someone with an opposing view in a friendly and polite manner
    Hmn. Not sure how many left of centre / non-Tory posters would agree with that!
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279

    Debbie Harry is 68 today. That frightens me.

    Have you seen the Blondie Roundabout?

    http://www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/969440_570359659670998_1997351894_n.jpg
    Like!

    I saw Blondie a couple of years back, Debbie Harry was struggling a bit with the high notes, and we are in the era where "moves like Jagger" is featured in physiotherapy referrals.
    Saw Debbie Harry in Aberdeen nearly twenty five years ago now, she was absolutely fab live. She was fitaloon's pin up girl back in the day. :)

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    AveryLP said:

    " The good news. It just keeps coming, and coming, and coming. "

    But what shows no sign of coming is Avery's prediction of when Britain gets the first month of trade surplus.

    ;-)


    ar

    The first of the month is when DECC update their Oil and Gas production stats on the internet. Unfortunately, the figures are released three months in arrears so we only got March 2013 today.

    A quick look at the three totals for oil, associated gas and dry gas shows that North Sea output is continuing in rapid decline.

    This is surprising as on a couple of occasions in the past three months, BoE officials have mentioned in speeches and interviews that North Sea production has been recovering and underpinning prospects for increased growth,

    Well, no real sign of it in Quarter 1, at least on an annual basis. Q3 & Q4 2012 were weak due to unscheduled shutdowns of major fields (mainly Buzzard) which might have boosted Q1 2013 on Q4 2012 growth, but that is not a recovery.

    So unless there is a big jump in Q2 2013, then it is difficult to see what the BoE have been going on about.

    And until or unless Oil and Gas output recovers there is no short or medium term prospect of the UK recording a monthly Balance of Trade surplus.

    I'll update you in three months time when DECC finally get to post the complete Q2 figures!

    In the meantime get fracking!

    Well, the North Sea is always going to be up and down (if you'll pardon the pun). On the positive side, Total's Elgin field is back up after a year of downtime. On the negative, Apache hasn't really gotten Beryl and co moving in the same way they did with the Forties field.

    The big problems for off-shore UK are:
    (1) the natural decline rates are close to 10%. That is, without new projects, UK oil production drops c. 10% every year as field pressures decline.
    (2) our North Sea (unlike the Norwegians) is quite well drilled already.

    That doesn't mean there won't be new fields. And it's quite possible that some EOR techniques become economic, and reverse some declines. But it does mean that - absent on-shore shale gas development - we will struggle to see meaningful increases in UK oil production, and are more likely to see declines.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,203
    carl said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Aargh! The curse of the new thread. So FPT on Egypt:

    There will never be democracy in the Arab world until its people understand (a) that one's creed should not be a basis for citizenship, government or law; and (b) the legitimacy of people having different (even radically different) views on matters of public policy - in short the concept of loyal opposition while still being patriots. Habits of thought are needed for democracy not simply elections and parties and the processes attached to those.

    It took the West a long time to understand both points and, arguably, we had a better starting point.

    I am not sure that a Martian whose experience of politics was limited to reading PB would conclude that we have quite achieved (b) yet ourselves.
    one of the best things about PB is that it is possible to engage with someone with an opposing view in a friendly and polite manner
    Hmn. Not sure how many left of centre / non-Tory posters would agree with that!
    Well that's the approach I take and it seems to be the approach of many others (though I am not on PB as often as before and tend to switch off when threads turn into a "yah boo you've been horrid to me. No you have" mode).

    But NP and SO and others are invariably polite and interesting and though I suspect that we don't agree on everything we agree on more than might be imagined.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited July 2013

    Mr. Jessop, I'm afraid it's too late for you.

    To become a castrati[sp] the male must be castrated prior to adolescence. You shall never have such a beautiful singing voice, or the increased life expectancy.

    MD

    The only true castrato of which there is an extant recording is Alessandro Moreschi.

    Moreschi was born in 1858 and was retained in the Vatican Choir becoming its last surviving castrato at the turn of the 20th century. He died in 1912 at the age of 54.

    Here he is singing Preghiera by Tosti in the Sistine Chapel in a February 1902 recording to wax cylinders.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv-S3uoeTXg
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited July 2013
    tim said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    tim said:

    "Privately, the PM accepts that he must force Ukip down to five per cent if he is to stand a chance."

    Sounds about right

    @TimMontgomerie: Victory for Conservatives remains "distant prospect". @BenedictBrogan right to pour cold water on recent Tory hopes http://t.co/zXggFpIxrx

    Clearly after NF and the kippers have been fading what Cammie, Osbrowne and the inept tory spinners need to do to really finish them off is bang on about Europe or immigration again.

    As if by magic, one master strategy coming right up. ;)
    Reuters UK Online ‏@reuters_co_uk

    Cameron in coalition clash over EU referendum http://reut.rs/1cIwLFq
    The Lib Dems appear to be using the same argument the Tories used in Scotland about delayed referendums increasing business uncertainty.
    Who could have guessed that would happen.


    You mean the precise same one Cammie used when he slapped a three line whip on his own MPs back when he was trying to shut them up about a referendum? The one where 81 of his backbenchers told him where to stick his whip and his excuse in the biggest tory rebellion on the EU for decades? That 'argument'? :)
  • Options
    carlcarl Posts: 750
    fitalass said:

    Debbie Harry is 68 today. That frightens me.

    Have you seen the Blondie Roundabout?

    http://www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/969440_570359659670998_1997351894_n.jpg
    Like!

    I saw Blondie a couple of years back, Debbie Harry was struggling a bit with the high notes, and we are in the era where "moves like Jagger" is featured in physiotherapy referrals.
    Saw Debbie Harry in Aberdeen nearly twenty five years ago now, she was absolutely fab live. She was fitaloon's pin up girl back in the day. :)

    Never mind back in the day! Oh, the French, just when you think she's done you enough, she starts singing in French...
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited July 2013
    rcs1000 said:

    AveryLP said:

    " The good news. It just keeps coming, and coming, and coming. "

    But what shows no sign of coming is Avery's prediction of when Britain gets the first month of trade surplus.

    ;-)


    ar

    The first of the month is when DECC update their Oil and Gas production stats on the internet. Unfortunately, the figures are released three months in arrears so we only got March 2013 today.

    A quick look at the three totals for oil, associated gas and dry gas shows that North Sea output is continuing in rapid decline.

    This is surprising as on a couple of occasions in the past three months, BoE officials have mentioned in speeches and interviews that North Sea production has been recovering and underpinning prospects for increased growth,

    Well, no real sign of it in Quarter 1, at least on an annual basis. Q3 & Q4 2012 were weak due to unscheduled shutdowns of major fields (mainly Buzzard) which might have boosted Q1 2013 on Q4 2012 growth, but that is not a recovery.

    So unless there is a big jump in Q2 2013, then it is difficult to see what the BoE have been going on about.

    And until or unless Oil and Gas output recovers there is no short or medium term prospect of the UK recording a monthly Balance of Trade surplus.

    I'll update you in three months time when DECC finally get to post the complete Q2 figures!

    In the meantime get fracking!

    Well, the North Sea is always going to be up and down (if you'll pardon the pun). On the positive side, Total's Elgin field is back up after a year of downtime. On the negative, Apache hasn't really gotten Beryl and co moving in the same way they did with the Forties field.

    The big problems for off-shore UK are:
    (1) the natural decline rates are close to 10%. That is, without new projects, UK oil production drops c. 10% every year as field pressures decline.
    (2) our North Sea (unlike the Norwegians) is quite well drilled already.

    That doesn't mean there won't be new fields. And it's quite possible that some EOR techniques become economic, and reverse some declines. But it does mean that - absent on-shore shale gas development - we will struggle to see meaningful increases in UK oil production, and are more likely to see declines.
    Agreed. Though the 7.5% decline in the last five years of the noughties has worryingly become 15% over the past three years (maybe attenuating over last year).

    Nexen have a big field due to come online in 2014 (Golden Eagle) in addition to Buzzard but there is not much else that is new and big.

    Robert, do you have access to any output figures that are more recent than DECC;s PPRS reports?
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    carlcarl Posts: 750
    Cyclefree said:
    Yep. I wish more in the private sector, like those who caused the global financial crisis, would show the same humility.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,203
    carl said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Yep. I wish more in the private sector, like those who caused the global financial crisis, would show the same humility.
    Quite. Being paid for failure is a blight of our times.

    It would be good if some of the other BBC bods who received monies they were not legally entitled to under their contracts also gave the money back.

  • Options
    carlcarl Posts: 750
    Cyclefree said:

    carl said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Yep. I wish more in the private sector, like those who caused the global financial crisis, would show the same humility.
    Quite. Being paid for failure is a blight of our times.

    It would be good if some of the other BBC bods who received monies they were not legally entitled to under their contracts also gave the money back.

    Agreed.

    Similarly, it would be good if those who caused the global financial crisis paid a little more towards the coffers.

    Not to mention those who work / worked for discredited news organisations.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: second day in a row Labour lead cut to just 5 points - CON 33%, LAB 38%, LDEM 8%, UKIP 12%. A big Ed-ache.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,076
    AveryLP said:

    " The good news. It just keeps coming, and coming, and coming. "

    But what shows no sign of coming is Avery's prediction of when Britain gets the first month of trade surplus.

    ;-)


    ar

    The first of the month is when DECC update their Oil and Gas production stats on the internet. Unfortunately, the figures are released three months in arrears so we only got March 2013 today.

    A quick look at the three totals for oil, associated gas and dry gas shows that North Sea output is continuing in rapid decline.

    This is surprising as on a couple of occasions in the past three months, BoE officials have mentioned in speeches and interviews that North Sea production has been recovering and underpinning prospects for increased growth,

    Well, no real sign of it in Quarter 1, at least on an annual basis. Q3 & Q4 2012 were weak due to unscheduled shutdowns of major fields (mainly Buzzard) which might have boosted Q1 2013 on Q4 2012 growth, but that is not a recovery.

    So unless there is a big jump in Q2 2013, then it is difficult to see what the BoE have been going on about.

    And until or unless Oil and Gas output recovers there is no short or medium term prospect of the UK recording a monthly Balance of Trade surplus.

    I'll update you in three months time when DECC finally get to post the complete Q2 figures!

    In the meantime get fracking!

    That is surprising, contrary to what all the talk had been and rather worrying.

    As to shale gas word has it there's plenty of shale gas under Sussex but the best two drilling points are under Glyndebourne and under a certain Richard Nabavi's house - would you be so kind as to break the bad news to our friend ;-)
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    carlcarl Posts: 750
    Gosh, a good News International / YouGov poll for the Tories, released early by TSE. How exciting!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    carl said:

    Gosh, a good News International / YouGov poll for the Tories, released early by TSE. How exciting!

    I don't think TSE is 'releasing' anything, just passing on what is most likely doing the rounds on twitter.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390
    Movements on that YouGov poll

    Con nc

    Labour nc

    LD minus 3

    UKIP plus 1

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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,076
    rcs1000 said:

    While I know I am beginning to sound like a broken record, can I point everyone in the direction of the latest Markit indicators regarding Spain: for the first time in more than two years, there was a number of 50. That is, the manufacturing purchasing managers' index is no longer negative.

    Spain has basically taken a leaf out of the first Thatcher government, and introduced the most remarkable labour reform laws. It has also (successfully, by and large) encouraged pay cuts in the private sector, and (following Ireland's example) put through public sector wage cuts. (Not freezes, actual cuts.)

    And now - despite horrendous, horrible, pain - this is working. Call me a starry-eyed optimist if you like, but I think Spain could be an extraordinary opportunity in the next three to five years.

    Interesting.

    Is there any sign of Spain picking up new inward investment from foreign business?

    One of the signs of the success of the Thatcher reforms was Japanese investment into Britain.
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    carlcarl Posts: 750
    RobD said:

    carl said:

    Gosh, a good News International / YouGov poll for the Tories, released early by TSE. How exciting!

    I don't think TSE is 'releasing' anything, just passing on what is most likely doing the rounds on twitter.
    Yeah sorry, "posted early" would have been a better way of putting it. I'm sure TSE isn't involved in these YouGov polls for News International / The Sun in any way.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Drift wood.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    carl said:

    RobD said:

    carl said:

    Gosh, a good News International / YouGov poll for the Tories, released early by TSE. How exciting!

    I don't think TSE is 'releasing' anything, just passing on what is most likely doing the rounds on twitter.
    Yeah sorry, "posted early" would have been a better way of putting it. I'm sure TSE isn't involved in these YouGov polls for News International / The Sun in any way.
    They were posted early by the Sun, not TSE. It's a well known effect that polls get released early by the Sun on twitter if they are good for the Tories.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390
    carl said:

    RobD said:

    carl said:

    Gosh, a good News International / YouGov poll for the Tories, released early by TSE. How exciting!

    I don't think TSE is 'releasing' anything, just passing on what is most likely doing the rounds on twitter.
    Yeah sorry, "posted early" would have been a better way of putting it. I'm sure TSE isn't involved in these YouGov polls for News International / The Sun in any way.
    The only way I'm involved in these polls is on a Saturday night, where on PB for the past few years, I've posted the YouGov/Sunday Times and emailed said results/articles to OGH, whether it is good or bad for the Tories.
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    carlcarl Posts: 750
    Are Murdoch's News International still called News International, by the way, PBers? Not sure I've got facts right in my last post.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    carl said:

    Are Murdoch's News International still called News International, by the way, PBers? Not sure I've got facts right in my last post.

    It's now News UK apparently.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    " The good news. It just keeps coming, and coming, and coming. "

    But what shows no sign of coming is Avery's prediction of when Britain gets the first month of trade surplus.

    ;-)


    ar

    The first of the month is when DECC update their Oil and Gas production stats on the internet. Unfortunately, the figures are released three months in arrears so we only got March 2013 today.

    A quick look at the three totals for oil, associated gas and dry gas shows that North Sea output is continuing in rapid decline.

    This is surprising as on a couple of occasions in the past three months, BoE officials have mentioned in speeches and interviews that North Sea production has been recovering and underpinning prospects for increased growth,

    Well, no real sign of it in Quarter 1, at least on an annual basis. Q3 & Q4 2012 were weak due to unscheduled shutdowns of major fields (mainly Buzzard) which might have boosted Q1 2013 on Q4 2012 growth, but that is not a recovery.

    So unless there is a big jump in Q2 2013, then it is difficult to see what the BoE have been going on about.

    And until or unless Oil and Gas output recovers there is no short or medium term prospect of the UK recording a monthly Balance of Trade surplus.

    I'll update you in three months time when DECC finally get to post the complete Q2 figures!

    In the meantime get fracking!

    That is surprising, contrary to what all the talk had been and rather worrying.

    As to shale gas word has it there's plenty of shale gas under Sussex but the best two drilling points are under Glyndebourne and under a certain Richard Nabavi's house - would you be so kind as to break the bad news to our friend ;-)
    The Nabavi of All Sussex will no doubt claim that it is gas shale under his house and not shale gas.

    Robert Smithson is due to be called in to validate such claim and to advise on its implications.

    Until then the Pagoda is safe.

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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    carl said:

    Are Murdoch's News International still called News International, by the way, PBers? Not sure I've got facts right in my last post.

    I'm not sure you've got your facts right in any of your posts , carl.

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited July 2013
    carl said:

    Are Murdoch's News International still called News International, by the way, PBers? Not sure I've got facts right in my last post.

    The media bit is calling itself 21st Century Fox, which is rather grand.

    The publishing bit will retain the News Corp name.

    As News International is a subsidiary of NewsCorp then I would guess that, for once in your many posts, you have got lucky by being right!

    [Edit: I see RobD is saying the UK subsidiary is now News UK. Rob is probably right as I am only informed on the NewsCorp split]

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,930
    A Tory MP well worth watching. He is spoken of very highly in my little world:

    http://www.georgefreeman.co.uk/

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    AveryLP said:



    [Edit: I see RobD is saying the UK subsidiary is now News UK. Rob is probably right as I am only informed on the NewsCorp split]

    Avery, my information is merely based on a google search. Hence the careful use of the word 'apparently' ;-)
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,250

    Debbie Harry is 68 today. That frightens me.

    My daughters came back from a long weekend at t in the Park maybe 3 years ago. For all the headline bands it was Debbie that they were raving about and not just to please their old man.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,637
    RobD said:

    carl said:

    RobD said:

    carl said:

    Gosh, a good News International / YouGov poll for the Tories, released early by TSE. How exciting!

    I don't think TSE is 'releasing' anything, just passing on what is most likely doing the rounds on twitter.
    Yeah sorry, "posted early" would have been a better way of putting it. I'm sure TSE isn't involved in these YouGov polls for News International / The Sun in any way.
    They were posted early by the Sun, not TSE. It's a well known effect that polls get released early by the Sun on twitter if they are good for the Tories.
    Unless they are running a burger story about the chancellor.....but they seem to have given that up...

    Must say I'm slightly surprised by this poll - no obvious reason for UKIP to bounce back - and had expected Labour lead to rebound the other side of 8.....ah well, as Mrs Butler said "Tomorrow is another day!"

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,390

    RobD said:

    carl said:

    RobD said:

    carl said:

    Gosh, a good News International / YouGov poll for the Tories, released early by TSE. How exciting!

    I don't think TSE is 'releasing' anything, just passing on what is most likely doing the rounds on twitter.
    Yeah sorry, "posted early" would have been a better way of putting it. I'm sure TSE isn't involved in these YouGov polls for News International / The Sun in any way.
    They were posted early by the Sun, not TSE. It's a well known effect that polls get released early by the Sun on twitter if they are good for the Tories.
    Unless they are running a burger story about the chancellor.....but they seem to have given that up...

    Must say I'm slightly surprised by this poll - no obvious reason for UKIP to bounce back - and had expected Labour lead to rebound the other side of 8.....ah well, as Mrs Butler said "Tomorrow is another day!"

    A three point movement is MOE.

    I think one of the things PBers are guilty of is to try to explain essentially sub-MOE movements, when the real explanation is, MOE.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited July 2013


    That is surprising, contrary to what all the talk had been and rather worrying.

    As to shale gas word has it there's plenty of shale gas under Sussex but the best two drilling points are under Glyndebourne and under a certain Richard Nabavi's house - would you be so kind as to break the bad news to our friend ;-)

    Bad news? I'm trying to figure out how which department of B & Q has a long enough drill, and where I buy my Stetson.

    In all seriousness - I think this beautiful area of Sussex would be much more damaged by wind farms (and perhaps by expansion at Gatwick) than oil and gas production, which are relatively innocuous once the initial exploration and production drilling are complete.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,250
    I know little about these things but the suggestions from the Bank that I read some time ago was that it would be the end of the year/ early next year before we start to see an output from the planned significant additional investment in the north sea following the change in the tax structures. This investment allegedly ran into the low billions of pounds.

    I was hopeful it would give a boost to Q4, even if only by giving us a pause in the rate of decline.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,637

    RobD said:

    carl said:

    RobD said:

    carl said:

    Gosh, a good News International / YouGov poll for the Tories, released early by TSE. How exciting!

    I don't think TSE is 'releasing' anything, just passing on what is most likely doing the rounds on twitter.
    Yeah sorry, "posted early" would have been a better way of putting it. I'm sure TSE isn't involved in these YouGov polls for News International / The Sun in any way.
    They were posted early by the Sun, not TSE. It's a well known effect that polls get released early by the Sun on twitter if they are good for the Tories.
    Unless they are running a burger story about the chancellor.....but they seem to have given that up...

    Must say I'm slightly surprised by this poll - no obvious reason for UKIP to bounce back - and had expected Labour lead to rebound the other side of 8.....ah well, as Mrs Butler said "Tomorrow is another day!"

    A three point movement is MOE.
    On a 10 share MOE is 6 points! Tory (~30) and Labour (~40) are on an MOE of 3....so anything between a Labour lead of 4 (33 vs 37) and 16 (27 vs 43) is within MOE - tho I think the Labour central point is now around 38 - so leads between 2 ( 33 vs 35) and 14 (27 vs 41) is still MOE.

    However....the longer these lower labour leads continue....
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    You misunderstand how "margin of error" works.

    A poll with a MOE of 3% does not mean that a poll showing Tory 40% Labour 30% is just as likely to be 43-27 or 37-33. The distrbution of the true value of the sample isn't distribute across the MOE.


    Read about it on Wikipedia
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,923

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: second day in a row Labour lead cut to just 5 points - CON 33%, LAB 38%, LDEM 8%, UKIP 12%. A big Ed-ache.

    Right wingers 45, lefties 46 !

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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited July 2013
    test





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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    What a ridiculous theory in the previous thread.

    (a) Jake Whatsisname is a petulant child with a personal grudge, and no substance;
    (b) No normal Lib Dem or Conservative voter would want to vote for him;
    (c) There is no chance that either the Lib Dems or the Conservative Party would stand down in his favour, and their voters would be angry if they did;
    (d) No normal person would think he would be a better MP than any Labour MP;
    (e) He is very unlikely to stand anyway, because the next general election is a tenth of alifetime away and he will probably grow up a lot before then;
    (f) He would only get a few hundred votes, if he stood;
    (g) The article selects a few examples of successful Independent Labour MPs, and ignores various other unsuccessful Independent Labour candidates or outgoing MPs - such as Terry Fields, Dave Nellist, Ron Browne, or Insert Name Here.
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    I am wondering if the Egyptian army's threat to launch a military coup (or whatever sort of sub-coup or intervention) might be a step towards a Turkey-style position of actively (and pro-actively) protecting constitutionalism and secularism, and preventing the spread of insidious Islamic fundamentalism. Such an arrangement might be jolly good thing.
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    (OT) From 1995 onwards, I used to go to Clarence House regularly each year to join the crowds to celebrate the Queen Mother's birthdays. In 1997, when she was 97, there was a discussion among some of us in the crowd about whether she would reach the age of 100. the consensus of opinion was that we thought she would - and we were being genuine in saying so, not just indulging in wishful thinking.

    Anyway, on a similar train of thought, I am getting increasingly cautiously optimistic that Nelson Rolihlahla Treacle Pudding Armadillo "Madiba" Mandela will live long enough to reach the age of 95 (which is in 16 days' time).
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    @JohnLoony

    Actuarially, you are odds-on to still be here in 12 months time, until you reach the age of around 107...
This discussion has been closed.