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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A tribute to Sir Antony Jay

SystemSystem Posts: 11,016
edited August 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A tribute to Sir Antony Jay

Earlier on this week Sir Antony Jay, co-creator and writer of Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister died. For my mind, both shows remain timeless, there’s the above clip about how leading questions can influence polling results, though the scene above was in the days before the BPC.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    First
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Second like Don't Know.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Great choice of thread for a soggy Sunday - some might say, brave...
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Tightening? So Smith going from 25% to 27%. :smile:
  • Options
    Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy says that the infamous 'jungle' camp in Calais should be shut down and moved to Britain.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3761650/Sarkozy-says-Britain-manage-asylum-seekers-territory.html

    What's it go to do with us?
  • Options
    Is this like that secret polling the other week?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    Great tribute, two classic and timeless clips. RIP Sir Antony Jay.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    F1: Spa being Spa, all the bets have turned to sh...
    Well done Lewis, from the back to the podium.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954
    FPT:
    MTimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    Well the paper says, for instance,

    "Despite consumers increasingly moving to other payment methods, the value of Bank of England notes in circulation continues to grow, and has trebled over the past two decades .... This growth, which has been concentrated in the two highest denominations — £20 and £50 notes — has outpaced growth in aggregate spending ... "

    There has been an astonishing rise (over 400% in 12 years) in notes in circulation in Europe, but a decline in Sweden. Hoarding, the shadow economy, i.e. "non-transactional growth in demand for cash", seem to be important.

    There are a couple of reasons:

    1. Governments across Europe are cracking down on tax evasion and the black economy. Cash leaves no trail.

    2. Historically, failure to put your money in the banking system meant losing interest. Not any more.

    3. People are more sceptical of the banks. If, next time around, we decide not to bail out RBS or Northern Rock or Lloyds, those who lent money to deposited money at those institutions stand to lose some or even all of it.

    4. The Italy '78, or Cyprus '13 scenario where the government 'shaves' deposits. (Of course, in the old days, governments shaved deposits through inflation, but that's another story.)
    Robert. Hope the flight and journey were not too miserable. In case you did not see my post, thanks for the reply on the economies of Japan vs France vs Italy discussion.
    Just for clarification: I'm not saying the economies of France and Italy are without (serious) problems. Just that their serious problems are different to Japan's!

    (I also think we tend to miss the cyclical nature of economies. Even countries will 0.5% trend growth will string together a coupe of years of 2% from time-to-time.)
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954

    Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy says that the infamous 'jungle' camp in Calais should be shut down and moved to Britain.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3761650/Sarkozy-says-Britain-manage-asylum-seekers-territory.html

    What's it go to do with us?

    Former French President who's campaign to become Les Republicains nominee looks more troubled by the day follows the Corbyn example of promising the impossible...
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited August 2016
    FPT
    PlatoSaid said:

    runnymede said:


    It's a dump, isn't it?

    No Chard is not a dump. Has some not so good parts and some very nice parts. Nice small town high street too. Population 12,000

    It is just that it is a more working class/lower middle class place with real people not home counties incomers trying to be all Chipping Norton.

    If you want chocolate box,thatched roof, twee isolation with an average age of over 60 and no bus service, then Hinton St George is the place.
    Sounds perfect! Maintenance is a bugger I expect.
    Hinton St George aint cheap. Its the Somerset equivalent of Woburn - alas without its Earl and twee shops. Due to old Poulet selling up the estate between 1940 and 1970 (before then he owned most of the area) then snuffing it without issue.

    I find it has a rather melancholy air. Like Buck House would if we were a republic.

    Elderly middle class types love it and move there, then one of them dies and the survivor becomes unfit to drive and they're buggered.
  • Options

    Great choice of thread for a soggy Sunday - some might say, brave...

    I always get writer's block on Bank Holidays, plus there's nothing more soul destroying than writing a Magnum Opus, and it getting around 130 comments.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    FPT @viewcode

    It's only weather that matters. I'm an Eastbourne Geordie and entirely unfussed by changing location to random place with no public transport or shops given teh interwebs. Spent last two decades in nowhereland.

    All inspiration appreciated. Cheap is good, 200k budget - I like sunny.
  • Options
    PlatoSaid said:

    FPT @viewcode

    It's only weather that matters. I'm an Eastbourne Geordie and entirely unfussed by changing location to random place with no public transport or shops given teh interwebs. Spent last two decades in nowhereland.

    All inspiration appreciated. Cheap is good, 200k budget - I like sunny.

    Southwest is wetter and much much more cloudy than southeast. Really rare to get a cloudless day.

    Also few degrees cooler in summer - but milder in winter - than SE
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    edited August 2016
    My favourite show of all time, and as I said when the news broke, a man and show which had a profound and genuine impact upon our political culture through the medium of satirizing it. With all respect to the other characters, the brilliant dynamic and interplay of Hacker, Humphrey and Woolley with the tremendously sharp writing, faultless performances of Eddington, Hawthorn and Fowlds, truly elevated it above so much other satire. Cutting, insightful but also with heart and real character.

    RIP Sir Anthony.

    I re-watch it all the time. Favourite episodes probably Doing the Honours, The Moral Dimension, A Victory for Democracy, One of Us, A Diplomatic Incident, The Writing on the Wall
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    RIP - I love the discussion about deterrence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9T9uchUEeU I Assume Corbyn doesn't shop at Harrods.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sandpit said:

    Great tribute, two classic and timeless clips. RIP Sir Antony Jay.

    It's beyond perfect - never dated.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy says that the infamous 'jungle' camp in Calais should be shut down and moved to Britain.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3761650/Sarkozy-says-Britain-manage-asylum-seekers-territory.html

    What's it go to do with us?

    Well quite, send them to Germany :wink:
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    We don't have any good politics based comedy now. No Yes Minister, No Spitting Image, no Thick of It, no Bremner, Bird and Fortune. Even HIGNFY often feels like it is being mailed in.
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited August 2016
    Interesting Telegraph Obit on Sir Antony, - not a great fan of Aunty it would appear.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2016/08/23/sir-antony-jay-co-author-of-yes-minister--obituary/
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited August 2016
    That is my favourite clip :).
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    kle4 said:

    My favourite show of all time, and as I said when the news broke, a man and show which had a profound and genuine impact upon our political culture through the medium of satirizing it. With all respect to the other characters, the brilliant dynamic and interplay of Hacker, Humphrey and Woolley with the tremendously sharp writing, faultless performances of Eddington, Hawthorn and Fowlds, truly elevated it above so much other satire. Cutting, insightful but also with heart and real character.

    RIP Sir Anthony.

    I re-watch it all the time. Favourite episodes probably Doing the Honours, The Moral Dimension, A Victory for Democracy, One of Us, A Diplomatic Incident, The Writing on the Wall

    I've seen it dozens of times too - which one has the health report discredited?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954
    John_M said:

    That is my favourite clip :).

    It's in the header!
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    That is my favourite clip :).

    It's in the header!
    I noticed, and swiftly covered my tracks :).
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954
    As we're all posting YouTube clips, here's one...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjeKiIa7XEk
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sahil Kapur
    Morning Consult poll

    Clinton 43% (-1)
    Trump 40% (+2)

    (Note: No apparent shift among black voters; just 5% support Trump)
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954
    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    That is my favourite clip :).

    It's in the header!
    I noticed, and swiftly covered my tracks :).
    Oops. By the way, did you see my post re trade deals at the end of the last thread?
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    MTimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    Well the paper says, for instance,

    "Despite consumers increasingly moving to other payment methods, the value of Bank of England notes in circulation continues to grow, and has trebled over the past two decades .... This growth, which has been concentrated in the two highest denominations — £20 and £50 notes — has outpaced growth in aggregate spending ... "

    There has been an astonishing rise (over 400% in 12 years) in notes in circulation in Europe, but a decline in Sweden. Hoarding, the shadow economy, i.e. "non-transactional growth in demand for cash", seem to be important.

    There are a couple of reasons:

    1. Governments across Europe are cracking down on tax evasion and the black economy. Cash leaves no trail.

    2. Historically, failure to put your money in the banking system meant losing interest. Not any more.

    3. People are more sceptical of the banks. If, next time around, we decide not to bail out RBS or Northern Rock or Lloyds, those who lent money to deposited money at those institutions stand to lose some or even all of it.

    4. The Italy '78, or Cyprus '13 scenario where the government 'shaves' deposits. (Of course, in the old days, governments shaved deposits through inflation, but that's another story.)
    Robert. Hope the flight and journey were not too miserable. In case you did not see my post, thanks for the reply on the economies of Japan vs France vs Italy discussion.
    Just for clarification: I'm not saying the economies of France and Italy are without (serious) problems. Just that their serious problems are different to Japan's!

    (I also think we tend to miss the cyclical nature of economies. Even countries will 0.5% trend growth will string together a coupe of years of 2% from time-to-time.)
    I agree. But unless they address those problems, and particularly if they fail to do so while in the Euro, I see their trend growth being more in the 0.5-1% range than in the 2+% range. Over the long term, as Japan has found, that has a big effect on the economy and the country's relative economic and hence political position.

    Remember the late 80s when the fear was that Japan would buy up the US economy? I suspect that the current fears of Chinese deep pockets will end in a similar way some 10 to 15 years from now.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited August 2016
    FPT:

    "Could you point me to the website detailing BBC bias to the right?" -weejonnie.

    Trouble is Corbynista's see the BBC as biased to the neo liberal Tory elite.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    That is my favourite clip :).

    It's in the header!
    I noticed, and swiftly covered my tracks :).
    Oops. By the way, did you see my post re trade deals at the end of the last thread?
    Yes, thank you. Am I right in thinking some of those agreements are actually carryovers from the old GATT system?
  • Options

    Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy says that the infamous 'jungle' camp in Calais should be shut down and moved to Britain.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3761650/Sarkozy-says-Britain-manage-asylum-seekers-territory.html

    What's it go to do with us?

    It's full of people that want to live here.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    nunu said:

    FPT:

    "Could you point me to the website detailing BBC bias to the right?" -weejonnie.

    Trouble is Corbynista's see the BBC as biased to the neo liberal Tory elite.

    And there are many on the right who think the LibDems are on the left, despite the evidence of the 2010-2015 government.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    edited August 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    kle4 said:

    My favourite show of all time, and as I said when the news broke, a man and show which had a profound and genuine impact upon our political culture through the medium of satirizing it. With all respect to the other characters, the brilliant dynamic and interplay of Hacker, Humphrey and Woolley with the tremendously sharp writing, faultless performances of Eddington, Hawthorn and Fowlds, truly elevated it above so much other satire. Cutting, insightful but also with heart and real character.

    RIP Sir Anthony.

    I re-watch it all the time. Favourite episodes probably Doing the Honours, The Moral Dimension, A Victory for Democracy, One of Us, A Diplomatic Incident, The Writing on the Wall

    I've seen it dozens of times too - which one has the health report discredited?
    The Greasy Pole https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tobxmn6A1SU about 25 minutes in?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    nunu said:

    FPT:

    "Could you point me to the website detailing BBC bias to the right?" -weejonnie.

    Trouble is Corbynista's see the BBC as biased to the neo liberal Tory elite.

    In case this they are probably correct. He is anti-EU, which goes down like a cold bucket of sick in BBC circles.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954
    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    That is my favourite clip :).

    It's in the header!
    I noticed, and swiftly covered my tracks :).
    Oops. By the way, did you see my post re trade deals at the end of the last thread?
    Yes, thank you. Am I right in thinking some of those agreements are actually carryovers from the old GATT system?
    Oh yes, some of the old GATT treaties contain more addendums related to bilateral trade than they do pages of the main treaty. Indeed, there are quite a few provisions in old GATT treaties that still explicity reference the UK and the Commonwealth which have never been officially rescinded.

    Sometimes it's easier to pretend things don't exist than to actually change them.

    (Some of these things *might* make a post EU world easier. The big issue, and this is a flaw on our side, I think, is that we tend to think that the rest of the world - China, India, Brazil, Russia, the US, etc. - are rather more free trade than they actually are.)
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    nunu said:

    FPT:

    "Could you point me to the website detailing BBC bias to the right?" -weejonnie.

    Trouble is Corbynista's see the BBC as biased to the neo liberal Tory elite.

    Corynistas probably think the People's Daily is a right-wing rag.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    My wallet's mood after the race:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTBrY_Uterk
  • Options
    I hadn't realised, until it was mentioned here a few days ago, that Jonathan Lynn co-writer of Yes Minister/Prime Minister appeared as Margolis the Jewish trainee cabbie in "The Knowledge" .Presumably it was no coincidence that the brilliant Sir Nigel Hawthorne starred in both.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954
  • Options
    glw said:

    nunu said:

    FPT:

    "Could you point me to the website detailing BBC bias to the right?" -weejonnie.

    Trouble is Corbynista's see the BBC as biased to the neo liberal Tory elite.

    Corynistas probably think the People's Daily is a right-wing rag.
    Anybody not the cult of Maomentum is a Tory...We are all Tories now...
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited August 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    That is my favourite clip :).

    It's in the header!
    I noticed, and swiftly covered my tracks :).
    Oops. By the way, did you see my post re trade deals at the end of the last thread?
    Yes, thank you. Am I right in thinking some of those agreements are actually carryovers from the old GATT system?
    Oh yes, some of the old GATT treaties contain more addendums related to bilateral trade than they do pages of the main treaty. Indeed, there are quite a few provisions in old GATT treaties that still explicity reference the UK and the Commonwealth which have never been officially rescinded.

    Sometimes it's easier to pretend things don't exist than to actually change them.

    (Some of these things *might* make a post EU world easier. The big issue, and this is a flaw on our side, I think, is that we tend to think that the rest of the world - China, India, Brazil, Russia, the US, etc. - are rather more free trade than they actually are.)
    I agree. My current view is, based on a lot of reading, that it's too complicated for an individual, especially a layperson, to wrap their head around. I've accrued enough knowledge to make an elevator pitch or correct the permanently bamboozled of Twitter, but that's enough. It's up to HMG to trade off the various public goods.

    Trade is now in a nice pigeonhole, next to 'The City', filed under 'Do not worry my pretty little head'.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    edited August 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    Sahil Kapur
    Morning Consult poll

    Clinton 43% (-1)
    Trump 40% (+2)

    (Note: No apparent shift among black voters; just 5% support Trump)

    BUT only! 79% say they will definitely vote Clinton - that is quite a reduction from the 90%+ who voted for Obama. There are also a lot of DKs - quite sufficient to tip this one way or another.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    edited August 2016
    The thing I always loved about Yes Minister, more than, say, The Thick of It, is I cannot help but like the characters even as they might be at their most weak or nefarious. Hacker was publicity obsessed, short term thinking at times, but he tried to do good as best he could. Woolley was naiive and at times a little cowardly, but he was loyal, effective and on occasion stuck his neck out to achieve results. Humphrey was controlling and cynical, even ruthless, but he was extremely competent and had a firm view of curbing the excesses of political fumbling in pursuit of stable governance.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,149
    edited August 2016

    Interesting Telegraph Obit on Sir Antony, - not a great fan of Aunty it would appear.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2016/08/23/sir-antony-jay-co-author-of-yes-minister--obituary/

    Note this.

    "However, not many, perhaps, were aware that the serial was commissioned with a serious political purpose: to popularise public choice theory. "

    Who might have commissioned it for that purpose? I think it must have been the IEA.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    edited August 2016
    Two exchanges really stand out for me with Humphrey, both from the Whiskey Priest (apologies for not finding video links):

    Humphrey: Bernard, I have served eleven governments in the past thirty years. If I had believed in all their policies, I would have been passionately committed to keeping out of the Common Market, and passionately committed to going into it. I would have been utterly convinced of the rightness of nationalising steel. And of denationalising it and renationalising it. On capital punishment, I'd have been a fervent retentionist and an ardent abolishionist. I would've been a Keynesian and a Friedmanite, a grammar school preserver and destroyer, a nationalisation freak and a privatisation maniac; but above all, I would have been a stark, staring, raving schizophrenic
    ------
    On weapon sales
    Hacker: I cannot believe this, we're talking about good and evil.
    Humphrey: Ah, Church of England problem..
    Hacker: No Humphrey, our problem. We are discussing right and wrong
    Humphrey: You may be, minister but I'm not, it would be a serious misuse of government time
    Hacker: Selling arms to terrorists is wrong, can't you see that?
    Humphrey: No minister. Either you sell arms or you don't. If you sell them, they will inevitably end up with people who have the cash to buy them.
    A little later
    Hacker: It's all very well to take this lightly, but we cannot close our eyes to something that is as morally wrong as this.
    Humphrey: Very well, minister, if you insist upon making me discuss moral issues, may I point out to you that something is either morally wrong or it isn't, it can't be slightly morally wrong...Government isn't about morality. [It's about] stability. Keeping things going> Preventing anarchy. Stopping society falling to bits.Still being here tomorrow...Government isn't about good and evil, it is only about order or chaos.
    Hacker: And it's in order for Italian terrorists to get British bombs? And you don't care?
    Humphrey: It's not my job to care! That's what politicians are for. My job is to carry out government policy.
    Hacker: Even if you think it's wrong?
    Humphrey:Well, almost all government policy is wrong. But frightfully well carried out.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy says that the infamous 'jungle' camp in Calais should be shut down and moved to Britain.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3761650/Sarkozy-says-Britain-manage-asylum-seekers-territory.html

    What's it go to do with us?

    It's full of people that want to live here.
    But if they are asylum seekers they are in a safe place to claim asylum, there's no justification to ship them here to claim it.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. kle4, if you keep applying facts and reason in that way you'll be expelled from the Labour Party and have your Guardian subscription revoked.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    Interesting Telegraph Obit on Sir Antony, - not a great fan of Aunty it would appear.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2016/08/23/sir-antony-jay-co-author-of-yes-minister--obituary/

    Notably not left out of the BBC report on his death either.
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,930
    PlatoSaid said:

    FPT @viewcode

    It's only weather that matters. I'm an Eastbourne Geordie and entirely unfussed by changing location to random place with no public transport or shops given teh interwebs. Spent last two decades in nowhereland.

    All inspiration appreciated. Cheap is good, 200k budget - I like sunny.

    Follow David Hockney - from California to Bridlington!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,954
    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    That is my favourite clip :).

    It's in the header!
    I noticed, and swiftly covered my tracks :).
    Oops. By the way, did you see my post re trade deals at the end of the last thread?
    Yes, thank you. Am I right in thinking some of those agreements are actually carryovers from the old GATT system?
    Oh yes, some of the old GATT treaties contain more addendums related to bilateral trade than they do pages of the main treaty. Indeed, there are quite a few provisions in old GATT treaties that still explicity reference the UK and the Commonwealth which have never been officially rescinded.

    Sometimes it's easier to pretend things don't exist than to actually change them.

    (Some of these things *might* make a post EU world easier. The big issue, and this is a flaw on our side, I think, is that we tend to think that the rest of the world - China, India, Brazil, Russia, the US, etc. - are rather more free trade than they actually are.)
    I agree. My current view is, based on a lot of reading, that it's too complicated for an individual, especially a layperson, to wrap their head around. I've accrued enough knowledge to make an elevator pitch or correct the permanently bamboozled of Twitter, but that's enough. It's up to HMG to trade off the various public goods.

    Trade is now in a nice pigeonhole, next to 'The City', filed under 'Do not worry my pretty little head'.
    The truth is... anything is manageable, so long as we do it slowly, so that people and businesses can adapt.

    Problems only really occur when - in a desire for ideological purity - you move faster than existing contracts. Imagine a British firm that has a three year contract to sell gearboxes to Mercedes in Germany. It will probably have signed three year deals for the purchase of various component parts, from both British and international suppliers.

    This is probably a contract with an 8-10% margin. Impose a 15% tariff on importation of components (which it is contractually obliged to purchase), and the firm will have to declare force majeure.

    Now, if you announce that five years from now you'll do it, then firms have the ability to plan around.

    It's the Sir Humphrey school: at no stage do anything too radical.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,149
    Pubic choice theory was a specialism of the IEA. James Buchanan, Gordon Tullock, Arthur Seldon, Alan Peacock and Antony Jay himself wrote for it.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862


    Tightening? So Smith going from 25% to 27%. :smile:
    Down to hammered from massacred
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    That is my favourite clip :).

    It's in the header!
    I noticed, and swiftly covered my tracks :).
    Oops. By the way, did you see my post re trade deals at the end of the last thread?
    Yes, thank you. Am I right in thinking some of those agreements are actually carryovers from the old GATT system?
    Oh yes, some of the old GATT treaties contain more addendums related to bilateral trade than they do pages of the main treaty. Indeed, there are quite a few provisions in old GATT treaties that still explicity reference the UK and the Commonwealth which have never been officially rescinded.

    Sometimes it's easier to pretend things don't exist than to actually change them.

    (Some of these things *might* make a post EU world easier. The big issue, and this is a flaw on our side, I think, is that we tend to think that the rest of the world - China, India, Brazil, Russia, the US, etc. - are rather more free trade than they actually are.)
    I agree. My current view is, based on a lot of reading, that it's too complicated for an individual, especially a layperson, to wrap their head around...

    Trade is now in a nice pigeonhole, next to 'The City', filed under 'Do not worry my pretty little head'.
    Sometimes, John, you capture my own view so well I suspect you are my more eloquent sockpuppet.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    malcolmg said:


    Tightening? So Smith going from 25% to 27%. :smile:
    Down to hammered from massacred
    That itself was an improvement from being marmalised.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862
    PlatoSaid said:

    FPT @viewcode

    It's only weather that matters. I'm an Eastbourne Geordie and entirely unfussed by changing location to random place with no public transport or shops given teh interwebs. Spent last two decades in nowhereland.

    All inspiration appreciated. Cheap is good, 200k budget - I like sunny.

    Spain , Florida , etc. Got to be better than UK.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    malcolmg said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    FPT @viewcode

    It's only weather that matters. I'm an Eastbourne Geordie and entirely unfussed by changing location to random place with no public transport or shops given teh interwebs. Spent last two decades in nowhereland.

    All inspiration appreciated. Cheap is good, 200k budget - I like sunny.

    Spain , Florida , etc. Got to be better than UK.
    Health care is rather expensive in Florida. Spain would be a good bet for sun and cheap property. Some lovely spots and good food too. Health care is free for UK and other EU citizens.

    What could put a stop to such a retirement?

    Only if we were daft enough to Leave the EU I suppose :-)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    edited August 2016
    The guy I feel sorry for in Yes Minister is Frank Weisel the political adviser character - he just didn't gel well with the others, wasn't needed in the dynamic (Hacker could handle all the political stuff), and carted off at the end of S1.

    SpAds, they always get the worst of it.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    That is my favourite clip :).

    It's in the header!
    I noticed, and swiftly covered my tracks :).
    Oops. By the way, did you see my post re trade deals at the end of the last thread?
    Yes, thank you. Am I right in thinking some of those agreements are actually carryovers from the old GATT system?
    Oh yes, some of the old GATT treaties contain more addendums related to bilateral trade than they do pages of the main treaty. Indeed, there are quite a few provisions in old GATT treaties that still explicity reference the UK and the Commonwealth which have never been officially rescinded.

    Sometimes it's easier to pretend things don't exist than to actually change them.

    (Some of these things *might* make a post EU world easier. The big issue, and this is a flaw on our side, I think, is that we tend to think that the rest of the world - China, India, Brazil, Russia, the US, etc. - are rather more free trade than they actually are.)
    I agree. My current view is, based on a lot of reading, that it's too complicated for an individual, especially a layperson, to wrap their head around...

    Trade is now in a nice pigeonhole, next to 'The City', filed under 'Do not worry my pretty little head'.
    Sometimes, John, you capture my own view so well I suspect you are my more eloquent sockpuppet.
    Possibly the worst compliment I have ever received, ROFL. Thank you, I think!
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    That is my favourite clip :).

    It's in the header!
    I noticed, and swiftly covered my tracks :).
    Oops. By the way, did you see my post re trade deals at the end of the last thread?
    Yes, thank you. Am I right in thinking some of those agreements are actually carryovers from the old GATT system?
    Oh yes, some of the old GATT treaties contain more addendums related to bilateral trade than they do pages of the main treaty. Indeed, there are quite a few provisions in old GATT treaties that still explicity reference the UK and the Commonwealth which have never been officially rescinded.

    Sometimes it's easier to pretend things don't exist than to actually change them.

    (Some of these things *might* make a post EU world easier. The big issue, and this is a flaw on our side, I think, is that we tend to think that the rest of the world - China, India, Brazil, Russia, the US, etc. - are rather more free trade than they actually are.)
    I agree. My current view is, based on a lot of reading, that it's too complicated for an individual, especially a layperson, to wrap their head around...

    Trade is now in a nice pigeonhole, next to 'The City', filed under 'Do not worry my pretty little head'.
    Sometimes, John, you capture my own view so well I suspect you are my more eloquent sockpuppet.
    Possibly the worst compliment I have ever received, ROFL. Thank you, I think!
    It was intended to be at least.
  • Options
    Axe-wielding ISIS jihadi, 18, stabs Catholic priest, 60, before trying to blow up hundreds of worshippers during Sunday Mass

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3762288/Catholic-priest-stabbed-ISIS-knifeman-tries-kill-hundreds-setting-bomb-Indonesian-mass.html
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited August 2016
    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    That is my favourite clip :).

    It's in the header!
    I noticed, and swiftly covered my tracks :).
    Oops. By the way, did you see my post re trade deals at the end of the last thread?
    Yes, thank you. Am I right in thinking some of those agreements are actually carryovers from the old GATT system?
    Oh yes, some of the old GATT treaties contain more addendums related to bilateral trade than they do pages of the main treaty. Indeed, there are quite a few provisions in old GATT treaties that still explicity reference the UK and the Commonwealth which have never been officially rescinded.

    Sometimes it's easier to pretend things don't exist than to actually change them.

    (Some of these things *might* make a post EU world easier. The big issue, and this is a flaw on our side, I think, is that we tend to think that the rest of the world - China, India, Brazil, Russia, the US, etc. - are rather more free trade than they actually are.)
    I agree. My current view is, based on a lot of reading, that it's too complicated for an individual, especially a layperson, to wrap their head around...

    Trade is now in a nice pigeonhole, next to 'The City', filed under 'Do not worry my pretty little head'.
    Sometimes, John, you capture my own view so well I suspect you are my more eloquent sockpuppet.
    Possibly the worst compliment I have ever received, ROFL. Thank you, I think!
    It was intended to be at least.
    Genuinely made me laugh, so thank you, truly :). I didn't mean to sound churlish.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    rcs1000 said:

    John_M said:

    That is my favourite clip :).

    It's in the header!
    I noticed, and swiftly covered my tracks :).
    Oops. By the way, did you see my post re trade deals at the end of the last thread?
    Yes, thank you. Am I right in thinking some of those agreements are actually carryovers from the old GATT system?
    Oh yes, some of the old GATT treaties contain more addendums related to bilateral trade than they do pages of the main treaty. Indeed, there are quite a few provisions in old GATT treaties that still explicity reference the UK and the Commonwealth which have never been officially rescinded.

    Sometimes it's easier to pretend things don't exist than to actually change them.

    (Some of these things *might* make a post EU world easier. The big issue, and this is a flaw on our side, I think, is that we tend to think that the rest of the world - China, India, Brazil, Russia, the US, etc. - are rather more free trade than they actually are.)
    I agree. My current view is, based on a lot of reading, that it's too complicated for an individual, especially a layperson, to wrap their head around...

    Trade is now in a nice pigeonhole, next to 'The City', filed under 'Do not worry my pretty little head'.
    Sometimes, John, you capture my own view so well I suspect you are my more eloquent sockpuppet.
    Possibly the worst compliment I have ever received, ROFL. Thank you, I think!
    It was intended to be at least.
    Genuinely made me laugh, so thank you, truly :). I didn't mean to sound churlish.
    I have a problem both expressing and receiving genuine praise, hence the cover :)
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    edited August 2016
    Mr. Urquhart, why this mentally ill man mistook a church for a mosque and was carrying cutlery will forever remain a mystery.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. kle4, I sympathise. I'm terrible at gratitude for presents.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,862

    malcolmg said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    FPT @viewcode

    It's only weather that matters. I'm an Eastbourne Geordie and entirely unfussed by changing location to random place with no public transport or shops given teh interwebs. Spent last two decades in nowhereland.

    All inspiration appreciated. Cheap is good, 200k budget - I like sunny.

    Spain , Florida , etc. Got to be better than UK.
    Health care is rather expensive in Florida. Spain would be a good bet for sun and cheap property. Some lovely spots and good food too. Health care is free for UK and other EU citizens.

    What could put a stop to such a retirement?

    Only if we were daft enough to Leave the EU I suppose :-)
    Agree on Florida if you are planning to be there full time. I would go for Spain , Portugal , south France/Germany personally.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    John_M said:



    I agree. My current view is, based on a lot of reading, that it's too complicated for an individual, especially a layperson, to wrap their head around. I've accrued enough knowledge to make an elevator pitch or correct the permanently bamboozled of Twitter, but that's enough. It's up to HMG to trade off the various public goods.

    Trade is now in a nice pigeonhole, next to 'The City', filed under 'Do not worry my pretty little head'.

    Free Trade:

    There is a perception that seems to be widely held that the gains form Free trade come from us being able to sell goods to other contrary's, and that it is some times worth accepting not charging tax on some imports to gat this. this may be popularly believed but it is simply wrong the gains form free trade as because we don't change tax on goods that people in this country what to buy,

    By not changing tariffs on things people what to buy, they can buy the goods for less, and hence lead better life, any temporary imbalance in the value of goods coming in Vs going out, will lead to a drop in the values of the currency, making it easer for exporters, and/or company's competing directly against imports, and the currency will keep dropping until they equalibralise. In the mean time, recourses, (mostly people) will more to the Jobs/company's/industry's that we have a relative advantage at, and can create the most values in, thus rising the 'Wealth of the nation' by employing recourses including people in the optimal role.

    This understanding, brilliantly describes by Adam Smith, and David Ricardo, is as trough now as it ever was, but with 250 years of economic history to back it up. e.g. Hong Kong 1946-1997, or the UK 1850-1814.

    The best the government could do, is simply announce that on the da of BREXIT there will be no tariffs or other restrictions on any good from any country, and stop there.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    My favourite show of all time, and as I said when the news broke, a man and show which had a profound and genuine impact upon our political culture through the medium of satirizing it. With all respect to the other characters, the brilliant dynamic and interplay of Hacker, Humphrey and Woolley with the tremendously sharp writing, faultless performances of Eddington, Hawthorn and Fowlds, truly elevated it above so much other satire. Cutting, insightful but also with heart and real character.

    RIP Sir Anthony.

    I re-watch it all the time. Favourite episodes probably Doing the Honours, The Moral Dimension, A Victory for Democracy, One of Us, A Diplomatic Incident, The Writing on the Wall

    Well said. Great actors and superb scripts.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    kle4 said:

    The guy I feel sorry for in Yes Minister is Frank Weisel the political adviser character - he just didn't gel well with the others, wasn't needed in the dynamic (Hacker could handle all the political stuff), and carted off at the end of S1.

    SpAds, they always get the worst of it.

    In a way it was quite a good set up for The Thick of It.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Last Yes Minister Quote


    Sir Humphrey Appleby: Minister, I have something to say to you which you may not like to hear.

    James Hacker: Why should today be any different?

    Sir Humphrey Appleby: Minister, the traditional allocation of executive responsibilities has always been so determined as to liberate the Ministerial incumbent from the administrative minutiae by devolving the managerial functions to those whose experience and qualifications have better formed them for the performance of such humble offices, thereby releasing their political overlords for the more onerous duties and profound deliberations that are the inevitable concomitant of their exalted position.

    James Hacker: Now, whatever made you think I wouldn't want to hear that?

    Sir Humphrey Appleby: Well, I thought it might upset you.

    James Hacker: How could it? I didn't understand a single word. Humphrey, for God's sake, for once in your life put it into plain English.

    Sir Humphrey Appleby: If you insist. You are *not* here to run this Department.

    James Hacker: I beg your pardon.

    Sir Humphrey Appleby: You are *not* here to run this Department.

    James Hacker: I think I am. The people think I am, too.

    Sir Humphrey Appleby: With respect, Minister, you are... they are wrong

    James Hacker: And who does run this Department?

    Sir Humphrey Appleby: I do.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    F1: post-race ramble:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/belgium-post-race-analysis-2016.html

    Constructors' race has changed a bit.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Gordon Brown should have watched the programmes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyU28D1C1-4
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859

    F1: post-race ramble:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/belgium-post-race-analysis-2016.html

    Constructors' race has changed a bit.

    Love the first line!
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Sandpit, one aims to please [in the original, Sir Edric's referring not to an F1 race, but young ladies].
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    weejonnie said:

    Gordon Brown should have watched the programmes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyU28D1C1-4

    Corbyn probably should be cc'ed in as well...that bit about treating recording equipment as live.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    rcs1000 said:

    Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy says that the infamous 'jungle' camp in Calais should be shut down and moved to Britain.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3761650/Sarkozy-says-Britain-manage-asylum-seekers-territory.html

    What's it go to do with us?

    Former French President who's campaign to become Les Republicains nominee looks more troubled by the day follows the Corbyn example of promising the impossible...
    Sarkozy's commitment to ban the Burkina and nationalist, hard line on immigration will actually go down quite well with the Les Republicains base who will vote in the primary, even though it may not be entirely to our taste
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    No, tell a lie, this is my last Yes Minister quote - probably one of my favourites for how Hacker demonstrated how brilliant he could be at political skills.

    Journo: Questions about corruption at BES.
    Hacker: Complete Nonsense.
    Journo: But they quoted reports of payments to officials.
    Hacker: You see, this is absolutely typical. A British company slugs its guts out to win orders, create jobs, earn dollars, and what does it get from the media? A smear campaign...There is no question of bribery, I've had a full internal inquiry, and all these so-called 'payments' have been identified.
    Journo: What as?
    Humphrey: Commissioning fees, administrative overheads...
    Hacker: Operative costs, managerial surcharges...
    Woolley: Introduction expenses, miscellaneous outgoings...
    Hacker: We have looked into every brown envelope, er, every account book and everything is completely in order. And may I say, allegations of this nature are symptomatic of a very sick society, for which I'm afraid the media must take its share of the blame...Why are you putting thousands of British jobs at risk? I'm calling on the press council to censor the press, for its appalling lack of professional standards in running this story. The council, and indeed the House of Commons, must be concerned about the standards which have applied in this disgraceful matter, and pressure will be brought to bear to make sure this sort of gutter press reporting is not repeated.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    weejonnie said:

    Gordon Brown should have watched the programmes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyU28D1C1-4

    Corbyn probably should be cc'ed in as well...that bit about treating recording equipment as live.
    Sometimes politicians only pick up a bit of the necessary message though. Ed Miliband certainly picked up part of the one when Woolley made comments to the press, and he's not the only one.

    If you have nothing to say, say nothing. Better yet, have something to say and say it, no matter what they ask. Pay no attention to the question, just make your own statement. If they ask the question again you simply say, 'that's not the question', or 'I think the real question is', and then you make another statement of your own.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,710
    @PlatoSaid

    (PART 1)

    200K is not enough for within M25. But you know that already

    In the South East of England, you can still do Winchester if you can do flats. You can't do posh Home Counties, so no Haslemere or Guildford. You might be able to do Petersfield, which is nice. Try to avoid the South Coast of England: whether it's Hastings, Brighton, Bognor, Portsmouth, Bournemouth, Sandbanks, it's the same mishmash with varying degrees of prosperity, and as you already live in Eastbourne, there's no real point in the move.

    Moving to the South West, things pick up. Ignore seaside towns but little market towns are always good I feel. Devizes is nice, Shaftesbury has lots of new builds, Tisbury is lovely, Blandford Forum is also good. Bear in mind that some of these places are genuinely isolated (no buses after six, few taxi services, not on the rail network). They give off a fifties vibe: it makes my skin itch but you're Ukippy so (unsarcastically) that's probably not a problem.

    Avoid spa towns: so no Royal Tunbridge Wells, and possibly Bath as well. They carry a premium which they don't deserve.

    Let's go further up. Swindon is frowned on by metropolitan sof-is-ti-cates, but f**kem: it's perfectly decent and outstanding transport links. Thames Corridor is outside your budget, but you might be able to do Banbury. Don't do Stratford-upon-Avon unless you like tourists.

    Moving to Wales. You might still be able to do Cardiff. Do not do Newport...just don't. The Valleys is cheap but too poor. Swansea, Llanelli...well yes, but why bother? The West Coast is easily affordable but are very isolated. North Wales is an improvement and transport links to Liverpool is good but suffers from the perennial Welsh problem of lovely scenery and rubbish architecture. Mid-West Wales (Brecon and north) is genuinely lovely, but like Dorset you do have isolation problems.

    I oddly like Liverpool, for reasons I don't understand, and it is cheap. But that's a me-thing and I don't think it can be unreservedly recommended. Manchester is nice and vibrant, tho' the chip on its shoulder is never far from the surface and the accent takes some getting used to...
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,710
    @PlatoSaid

    (PART 2)

    ...Birmingham? Better than you think, but again not a place to move to.

    Lancaster, Morecambe? Not really. Windswept coast, staring out to sea, wondering where your life went.

    Blackpool? Ohgodno.

    The Lake District? Full of undiscovered gems and well worth a look. Get the Coogan/Brydon "The Trip" (first series) and see why it's a good idea. Possibly also the Yorkshire Dales, but that's me guessing so don't quote me.

    North Yorkshire is good to great - York may now be outside your budget, but the surrounding areas are good. Leeds is genuinely underrated, especially by Southerners,but again is it a place to move to?

    Avoid South Yorkshire, Bradford and surrounding, Lincolnshire. I don't know enough about the East Riding (is Beverley nice?) and the old Humberside but I do know Grimsby and Hull are not good.

    Going North, and there are certain universal truths: never start a land war in Asia, don't play cards with a man called "Doc", *never* live in Middlesbrough.

    An that's about as far up as I go. Please consult others for the Pennines, Newcastle, Scotland (but Edinburgh is very nice!), Northern Ireland, Midlands, Essex and Cornwall. Avoid the coast, stick to market towns, try to balance countryside against transport links. It is fun to do up a wreck but it is hard work and outside most people's pain threshold. Don't buy new-builds (unless off plan) because the premium wears off immediately, but 5-10 years old is just as good.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    viewcode said:

    @PlatoSaid

    (PART 1)

    200K is not enough for within M25. But you know that already

    In the South East of England, you can still do Winchester if you can do flats. You can't do posh Home Counties, so no Haslemere or Guildford. You might be able to do Petersfield, which is nice. Try to avoid the South Coast of England: whether it's Hastings, Brighton, Bognor, Portsmouth, Bournemouth, Sandbanks, it's the same mishmash with varying degrees of prosperity, and as you already live in Eastbourne, there's no real point in the move.

    Moving to the South West, things pick up. Ignore seaside towns but little market towns are always good I feel. Devizes is nice, Shaftesbury has lots of new builds, Tisbury is lovely, Blandford Forum is also good. Bear in mind that some of these places are genuinely isolated (no buses after six, few taxi services, not on the rail network). They give off a fifties vibe: it makes my skin itch but you're Ukippy so (unsarcastically) that's probably not a problem.

    Avoid spa towns: so no Royal Tunbridge Wells, and possibly Bath as well. They carry a premium which they don't deserve.

    Let's go further up. Swindon is frowned on by metropolitan sof-is-ti-cates, but f**kem: it's perfectly decent and outstanding transport links. Thames Corridor is outside your budget, but you might be able to do Banbury. Don't do Stratford-upon-Avon unless you like tourists.

    Moving to Wales. You might still be able to do Cardiff. Do not do Newport...just don't. The Valleys is cheap but too poor. Swansea, Llanelli...well yes, but why bother? The West Coast is easily affordable but are very isolated. North Wales is an improvement and transport links to Liverpool is good but suffers from the perennial Welsh problem of lovely scenery and rubbish architecture. Mid-West Wales (Brecon and north) is genuinely lovely, but like Dorset you do have isolation problems.

    I oddly like Liverpool, for reasons I don't understand, and it is cheap. But that's a me-thing and I don't think it can be unreservedly recommended. Manchester is nice and vibrant, tho' the chip on its shoulder is never far from the surface and the accent takes some getting used to...

    In terms of Wales, I'd throw in a pitch for the Newport Levels. Used to be unbearable due to Llanwern. Problem is property availability. Newport itself is two hours from London, with a 30 minute service.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    Today PB has become Location...Location...Location....com
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited August 2016

    Today PB has become Location...Location...Location....com

    There are only so many ways to write 'Jeremy Corbyn is a twat'.
  • Options
    John_M said:

    Today PB has become Location...Location...Location....com

    There's only so many ways to write 'Jeremy Corbyn is a twat'.
    I keep thinking that, then he manages to surprise us all by opening new avenues.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    viewcode said:

    @PlatoSaid

    (PART 2)

    ...Birmingham? Better than you think, but again not a place to move to.

    Lancaster, Morecambe? Not really. Windswept coast, staring out to sea, wondering where your life went.

    Blackpool? Ohgodno.

    The Lake District? Full of undiscovered gems and well worth a look. Get the Coogan/Brydon "The Trip" (first series) and see why it's a good idea. Possibly also the Yorkshire Dales, but that's me guessing so don't quote me.

    North Yorkshire is good to great - York may now be outside your budget, but the surrounding areas are good. Leeds is genuinely underrated, especially by Southerners,but again is it a place to move to?

    Avoid South Yorkshire, Bradford and surrounding, Lincolnshire. I don't know enough about the East Riding (is Beverley nice?) and the old Humberside but I do know Grimsby and Hull are not good.

    Going North, and there are certain universal truths: never start a land war in Asia, don't play cards with a man called "Doc", *never* live in Middlesbrough.

    An that's about as far up as I go. Please consult others for the Pennines, Newcastle, Scotland (but Edinburgh is very nice!), Northern Ireland, Midlands, Essex and Cornwall. Avoid the coast, stick to market towns, try to balance countryside against transport links. It is fun to do up a wreck but it is hard work and outside most people's pain threshold. Don't buy new-builds (unless off plan) because the premium wears off immediately, but 5-10 years old is just as good.

    Avoid Bradford - lol

    Please can I have your reasons why that is ?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    I have just opened an envelope from the Labour Party. A ballot paper is enclosed with two names on it.

    CORBYN. Jeremy
    SMITH, Owen

    What am I to do ?

  • Options
    surbiton said:

    I have just opened an envelope from the Labour Party. A ballot paper is enclosed with two names on it.

    CORBYN. Jeremy
    SMITH, Owen

    What am I to do ?

    No no you have got this all wrong, there are always 3 options, you choose one and then given the option to switch...
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Can you a buy a house / flat for £200k, anywhere, in the UK ?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    surbiton said:

    I have just opened an envelope from the Labour Party. A ballot paper is enclosed with two names on it.

    CORBYN. Jeremy
    SMITH, Owen

    What am I to do ?

    Vote for Owen Corbyn.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    surbiton said:

    Can you a buy a house / flat for £200k, anywhere, in the UK ?

    Bradford - lol
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,847
    surbiton said:

    I have just opened an envelope from the Labour Party. A ballot paper is enclosed with two names on it.

    CORBYN. Jeremy
    SMITH, Owen

    What am I to do ?

    It's a democracy, it's your decision. I wouldn't ask any of the numbskulls on here for political guidance though expertise in almost every other area seems to be both plentiful and of a very high quality.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    surbiton said:

    I have just opened an envelope from the Labour Party. A ballot paper is enclosed with two names on it.

    CORBYN. Jeremy
    SMITH, Owen

    What am I to do ?

    If being loyal to Marx's legacy comes before all else in your considerations vote for Corbyn, if trying to hold onto voters who voted for Ed Miliband is a priority, before even attempting to appeal to Tories, vote for Smith
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited August 2016
    Also, free kittens, rainbows and unicorn sausages for all. Well, that didn't take long to sort out. What shall we talk about now?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/28/britain-will-retain-access-to-single-market-and-curb-migration-u/
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,710
    edited August 2016
    surbiton said:

    Can you a buy a house / flat for £200k, anywhere, in the UK ?

    *Most* places in the UK have houses/flats for less than that. If you're willing to do up a wreck, in many places you could buy two, three or four for 200K and still do them up.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    stodge said:

    surbiton said:

    I have just opened an envelope from the Labour Party. A ballot paper is enclosed with two names on it.

    CORBYN. Jeremy
    SMITH, Owen

    What am I to do ?

    I wouldn't ask any of the numbskulls on here for political guidance
    I'll have you know, sir, that I am no numbskull. I'm a nincompoop.
  • Options
    madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659
    surbiton said:

    Can you a buy a house / flat for £200k, anywhere, in the UK ?

    Stoke on Trent
    http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/stoke-on-trent/


    http://tinyurl.com/zjyym68
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    I have just opened an envelope from the Labour Party. A ballot paper is enclosed with two names on it.

    CORBYN. Jeremy
    SMITH, Owen

    What am I to do ?

    If being loyal to Marx's legacy comes before all else in your considerations vote for Corbyn, if trying to hold onto voters who voted for Ed Miliband is a priority, before even attempting to appeal to Tories, vote for Smith
    Maybe, instead of writing "What am I to do ?", I should have written:

    "What should I do, dear Liza, dear Liza ?"



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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    John_M said:

    Also, free kittens, rainbows and unicorn sausages for all. Well, that didn't take long to sort out. What shall we talk about now?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/28/britain-will-retain-access-to-single-market-and-curb-migration-u/

    Who knew it was so easy? I see May is not neglecting to overpromise during her honeymoon phase.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    surbiton said:

    Can you a buy a house / flat for £200k, anywhere, in the UK ?

    Good lord, where do you live? That'll buy you a decent three-bed semi round here, or a 1/2 bed apartment in a new-build.
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    surbiton said:

    Can you a buy a house / flat for £200k, anywhere, in the UK ?

    Have you never seen Homes Under The Hammer?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    A random aside, but relevant to the site's raison d'etre: read the other day that Norbert Hofer has a 6 point lead going into the Austrian campaign. It remains to be seen whether any 150% turnout places will help his rival.
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