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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » When LAB eventually gets over its Corbyn-madness Keir Starmer

SystemSystem Posts: 11,009
edited January 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » When LAB eventually gets over its Corbyn-madness Keir Starmer would be an effective replacement

Nobody knows when Corbyn is finally going to step down but that surely is bound to happen in the not-too distant future. At some point the party will get over its temporary madness and decide that winning elections is once again a priority.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    First!
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    edited January 2017
    Second!

    I'd be worried that Keir Starmer might have too many skeletons in his closet from his previous role at the DPP. Or perhaps not.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    Won't be be dead by then?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Everyone rejoice in the new quoting functionality of PB!
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    Yup, as I wrote last year when Corbyn made Starmer Shadow Brexit Secretary

    Jeremy Corbyn has just brought a bazooka to a water pistol fight

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/10/06/jeremy-corbyn-has-appointed-sir-keir-starmer-as-shadow-brexit-secreretary-and-the-tories-should-be-worried/
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    RobD said:

    Everyone rejoice in the new quoting functionality of PB!

    Like
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,033
    So the Telegraph exclusive is that May wants 3.5 freedoms Brexit but isn't afraid of hard Brexit? Nothing seems to have changed since June 24th.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,304
    edited January 2017
    Mike wrote: I was one of the guests on Newsnight’s first programme of 2017 and made comments about the current leader’s electability that have sparked off attacks on me. Sobeit.

    It's a cult, I fear it will all go a bit Jonestown when Corbyn loses a general election
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    So the Telegraph exclusive is that May wants 3.5 freedoms Brexit but isn't afraid of hard Brexit? Nothing seems to have changed since June 24th.

    Wonder what the boss of Nissan thinks...
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    RobD said:

    Everyone rejoice in the new quoting functionality of PB!

    Thanks be to Robert!
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited January 2017
    Scott_P said:



    Wonder what the boss of Nissan thinks...

    Probably the same as the ones in charge at BMW and Daimler.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    chestnut said:

    Probably the same as the ones in charge at BMW and Daimler.

    Has HMG offered them sweetheart deals too?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957

    So the Telegraph exclusive is that May wants 3.5 freedoms Brexit but isn't afraid of hard Brexit? Nothing seems to have changed since June 24th.

    May will set a job offer requirement and offer limited budget contributions and just try and get what single market access she can but it will not be full access on that little has changed
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    Working class background, grammar school, not Oxbridge and 'proper job' should all impress the average voter.

    London constituency won't.

    It might be the other way around with Labour members though.

    Are there any political inconvenient things in his DPP past ?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    Starmer is too right-wing for Labour members at the moment
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    A clear example for laying the favourite, I think (catching up with @Pulpstar eventually). He's unlikely to stay constantly so short priced given the timescales likely to be in play. Any clear rival to Mr Corbyn is likely to have the forces of Twitter unleashed on him at some point.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    Sadly, in Labour's current condition, that's a price at which I'd lay Keir. Whom would make the best leader for Labour doesn't necessarily correlate with whom is most likely to be elected leader.

    And he'll probably tighten further over the next 18 months.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    Off topic, that Real Housewives of Isis skit is superb.

    A comedy that is actually doing a national service and, to me, feels like it justifies the TV licence fee I just paid for the whole year alone.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Scott_P said:

    chestnut said:

    Probably the same as the ones in charge at BMW and Daimler.

    Has HMG offered them sweetheart deals too?
    What a mind numbingly stupid question.

    Their problems are Merkel's problems.


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    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    ScreamingEagles

    Indeed it is a cult around Corbyn, the same behaviour is displayed with the Leave crowd IMO in the media and this website.

    With regard to the thread I would be very happy if Starmer became Labour leader, I could see him as PM. I would vote Labour if Starmer was leader. Likewise Umunna or Tristram Hunt (He should have done an Osborne and got rid of his first name imo! Tristram is hardly a name of the people, I suppose it could be worse like Gideon....
  • Options

    Working class background, grammar school, not Oxbridge and 'proper job' should all impress the average voter.

    London constituency won't.

    It might be the other way around with Labour members though.

    Are there any political inconvenient things in his DPP past ?

    I think The Sun will tear him a new one, given he oversaw the decision to prosecute so many Sun journalists re phone hacking/misconduct in a public office, especially in light of so few convictions.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    Everyone rejoice in the new quoting functionality of PB!

    Yay!
  • Options

    ScreamingEagles

    Indeed it is a cult around Corbyn, the same behaviour is displayed with the Leave crowd IMO in the media and this website.

    With regard to the thread I would be very happy if Starmer became Labour leader, I could see him as PM. I would vote Labour if Starmer was leader. Likewise Umunna or Tristram Hunt (He should have done an Osborne and got rid of his first name imo! Tristram is hardly a name of the people, I suppose it could be worse like Gideon....

    17 million is a cult. Well its a view I suppose
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The enduring mystery in this market is why David Miliband's price remains so short. Hope springs eternal for Blairites, I suppose.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Off topic, that Real Housewives of Isis skit is superb.

    A comedy that is actually doing a national service and, to me, feels like it justifies the TV licence fee I just paid for the whole year alone.

    It got a few chuckles out of me. Very daring by the writers, impressed that the BBC aired it too. Well done to the channel controller for going all in.
  • Options

    A clear example for laying the favourite, I think (catching up with @Pulpstar eventually). He's unlikely to stay constantly so short priced given the timescales likely to be in play. Any clear rival to Mr Corbyn is likely to have the forces of Twitter unleashed on him at some point.

    We've had several 'flavour of the fortnight' for next Labour leader already.

    I suspect we might have a few more during this year.
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    Sad to see Richard Burgon isn't on that chart.

    He's down as low as 25/1 after being tipped at 100/1.

    Burgon is the future of the Labour party, wake up and smell the farts coffee.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,901
    MaxPB said:

    Off topic, that Real Housewives of Isis skit is superb.

    A comedy that is actually doing a national service and, to me, feels like it justifies the TV licence fee I just paid for the whole year alone.

    It got a few chuckles out of me. Very daring by the writers, impressed that the BBC aired it too. Well done to the channel controller for going all in.
    The writer is Joceleyn Rubensteyn I think... surprisung to me as when I saw him on Daily Politics he seemed to be the most objectionable parody of a leftie, but I must say the housewives sketch made my laugh.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    SeanT said:

    Off topic, that Real Housewives of Isis skit is superb.

    A comedy that is actually doing a national service and, to me, feels like it justifies the TV licence fee I just paid for the whole year alone.

    Incredibly, there are lots of Muslims complaining on Twitter that it "disrespects Islam" etc

    FFS it's ISIS.

    This just goes to show how we have over-protected them and mollycoddled them, they cannot cope with a skit aimed at a barbaric death cult.

    Hopefully this is the first signs of a fightback. Better we do it through humour than actual violence, which is where constant appeasement would end.
    Twitter isn't representative though, aside from the professionally outraged.

    What impressed me is the Muslim actresses within it, who are doing a good job of, and clearly enjoying, spoofing ISIS. One would hope that might have an effect on other Muslim women who might be tempted by the ridiculous propaganda of ISIS, assuming it's widely seen.

    In terms of integration, it helps to show non-Muslims that there are many Muslims in the UK who are willing to poke fun and satirise ISIS, in that ridiculous way that is noticeably British.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Sad to see Richard Burgon isn't on that chart.

    He's down as low as 25/1 after being tipped at 100/1.

    Burgon is the future of the Labour party, wake up and smell the farts coffee.

    Never knew that the odds of multiple asteroid strikes wiping out the entire PLP was so low. Because that's the only scenario I can imagine him being leader... :D
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    Working class background, grammar school, not Oxbridge and 'proper job' should all impress the average voter.

    London constituency won't.

    It might be the other way around with Labour members though.

    Are there any political inconvenient things in his DPP past ?

    I think The Sun will tear him a new one, given he oversaw the decision to prosecute so many Sun journalists re phone hacking/misconduct in a public office, especially in light of so few convictions.
    From wiki:

    ' In 2007 he represented two alleged terrorists in a case in the House of Lords in which he successfully challenged their control orders on human rights grounds. He has also acted in 15 other cases in the House of Lords since 1999, including two cases about the conduct of British soldiers in Iraq '

    It doesn't say whether he was acting for or against the British soldiers in Iraq, or what the outcome was.

    Anyone know ?
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    The enduring mystery in this market is why David Miliband's price remains so short. Hope springs eternal for Blairites, I suppose.

    Now that Hillary can't offer him a job, I wonder if he might move back to the UK, and well those of us who have been laying him might not feel so smug.

    The malign evil of Donald Trump knows no bounds.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    I'm on Starmer, but at the moment just can't see the 1000s of members who worship Jezza will change, other than through a wipe-out at the next GE. Shock therapy.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,214
    edited January 2017

    The enduring mystery in this market is why David Miliband's price remains so short. Hope springs eternal for Blairites, I suppose.

    Now that Hillary can't offer him a job, I wonder if he might move back to the UK, and well those of us who have been laying him might not feel so smug.

    The malign evil of Donald Trump knows no bounds.
    David is Bananaman, ever alert for the call to action!
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    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    ScreamingEagles

    Indeed it is a cult around Corbyn, the same behaviour is displayed with the Leave crowd IMO in the media and this website.

    With regard to the thread I would be very happy if Starmer became Labour leader, I could see him as PM. I would vote Labour if Starmer was leader. Likewise Umunna or Tristram Hunt (He should have done an Osborne and got rid of his first name imo! Tristram is hardly a name of the people, I suppose it could be worse like Gideon....

    17 million is a cult. Well its a view I suppose
    In references to cults I am talking about the media and specifically people who post on this website. Not the average voter who has never heard of PB! The media swung it for Leave, no doubt about it, they propagated the falsehoods advocated by Boris et al without questioning the validity of the claims i.e. the £350 Million claim.

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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    OMG. No doubt I am behind the curve as I have been busy all day - but there is a quote button on the website!
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    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    Labour need to not only decide that they want to win elections but that they have a clear agreed position on BREXIT and the EU, this is almost impossible for a party split between urban modernisers based in the more cosmopolitan cities and the more traditional party base, not to mention the battered Scottish rump. I suspect that the trend in leadership will split between a UKIP -lite, a London moderniser or a traditionalist, none of which will keep the party coherent enough to go into a GE credibly. As even George Osborne noted, this is not good for democracy - well done for being so upfront about it on Newsnight Mike, shame that Labour membership at large are not having the discussion themselves.........I still think they will hold Copeland though
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    FPT - I think it's pretty obvious what May is aiming for from the Brexit negotiations, and there's plenty of information already out there to substantiate it.
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    ScreamingEagles

    Indeed it is a cult around Corbyn, the same behaviour is displayed with the Leave crowd IMO in the media and this website.

    With regard to the thread I would be very happy if Starmer became Labour leader, I could see him as PM. I would vote Labour if Starmer was leader. Likewise Umunna or Tristram Hunt (He should have done an Osborne and got rid of his first name imo! Tristram is hardly a name of the people, I suppose it could be worse like Gideon....

    17 million is a cult. Well its a view I suppose
    In references to cults I am talking about the media and specifically people who post on this website. Not the average voter who has never heard of PB! The media swung it for Leave, no doubt about it, they propagated the falsehoods advocated by Boris et al without questioning the validity of the claims i.e. the £350 Million claim.

    It was The Sunil wot won it!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    OMG. No doubt I am behind the curve as I have been busy all day - but there is a quote button on the website!

    The marvels of modern technology!
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    SeanT said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    Off topic, that Real Housewives of Isis skit is superb.

    A comedy that is actually doing a national service and, to me, feels like it justifies the TV licence fee I just paid for the whole year alone.

    It got a few chuckles out of me. Very daring by the writers, impressed that the BBC aired it too. Well done to the channel controller for going all in.
    The writer is Joceleyn Rubensteyn I think... surprisung to me as when I saw him on Daily Politics he seemed to be the most objectionable parody of a leftie, but I must say the housewives sketch made my laugh.
    It's not brilliantly funny - perhaps the scenario is too dark - but it is very brave, and certainly amusing, and most unexpected from the BBC. Well done him.
    The chain at the end was probably the best part, got a lol from me. Hopefully they keep going. I still think that Goodness Gracious Me is partly why racism against Indians was defused so adeptly. Four Indians taking the mickey out of themselves and their (our) culture in a very British way every week did more for race relations between British Indians and whites than anything before it.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280

    The enduring mystery in this market is why David Miliband's price remains so short. Hope springs eternal for Blairites, I suppose.

    Ssshht. That is my ISA savings account substitute.
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    The enduring mystery in this market is why David Miliband's price remains so short. Hope springs eternal for Blairites, I suppose.

    Ssshht. That is my ISA savings account substitute.
    If only we could lay as much Bush as we did last year.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,901
    edited January 2017
    SeanT said:

    isam said:

    MaxPB said:

    Off topic, that Real Housewives of Isis skit is superb.

    A comedy that is actually doing a national service and, to me, feels like it justifies the TV licence fee I just paid for the whole year alone.

    It got a few chuckles out of me. Very daring by the writers, impressed that the BBC aired it too. Well done to the channel controller for going all in.
    The writer is Joceleyn Rubensteyn I think... surprisung to me as when I saw him on Daily Politics he seemed to be the most objectionable parody of a leftie, but I must say the housewives sketch made my laugh.
    It's not brilliantly funny - perhaps the scenario is too dark - but it is very brave, and certainly amusing, and most unexpected from the BBC. Well done him.
    It takes real guts to publicly mock Islam. Grayson Perry openly admitted that although he poked fun at other religions, he didn't at Islam because he didn't fancy 'getting his throat slit'

    I wolf whistled at a woman in a burqa in front of her old man in Covent Garden last year just to mess with him... a very nervous tube ride home
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    Mike wrote: I was one of the guests on Newsnight’s first programme of 2017 and made comments about the current leader’s electability that have sparked off attacks on me. Sobeit.

    It's a cult, I fear it will all go a bit Jonestown when Corbyn loses a general election

    I only wish I could understand it. I really don't. What on earth possesses these people? It is delusion on a grand scale, possibly unprecedented scale (at least in UK in modern times).

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    The risk with shadow Brexit secretary is the risk of developing hostages to fortune. If Brexit is opposed firmly it could piss off many Leavers and potentially the majority of swing seats. If Brexit is backed it could piss off many Remainers and potentially the majority of current Labour voters.

    It's alright criticising the lack of a plan etc at the moment but ultimately there will be a cards on the table moment and Starmer will need to put his cards on the table. At that point will he be popular or as covered in manure as anyone else could be?
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    FPT - I think it's pretty obvious what May is aiming for from the Brexit negotiations, and there's plenty of information already out there to substantiate it.

    Yes, it's so obvious that one can only assume that those claiming she has no clear objectives are mischief-making.

    The issue, of course, isn't what we're aiming at, it's whether we can get it, and at what cost. To shed light on that, journalists should be snooping around on the continent, not here in the UK.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    MaxPB said:

    Off topic, that Real Housewives of Isis skit is superb.

    A comedy that is actually doing a national service and, to me, feels like it justifies the TV licence fee I just paid for the whole year alone.

    It got a few chuckles out of me. Very daring by the writers, impressed that the BBC aired it too. Well done to the channel controller for going all in.
    Dale Maily is also quite funny.

    There's something in that episode to offend everybody. And rightly so.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    FPT - I think it's pretty obvious what May is aiming for from the Brexit negotiations, and there's plenty of information already out there to substantiate it.

    Yes, it's so obvious that one can only assume that those claiming she has no clear objectives are mischief-making.

    The issue, of course, isn't what we're aiming at, it's whether we can get it, and at what cost. To shed light on that, journalists should be snooping around on the continent, not here in the UK.
    That would mean actually having to do real investigative work, not just write articles about what Donald Trump said on Twitter today.
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    MaxPB said:

    FPT - I think it's pretty obvious what May is aiming for from the Brexit negotiations, and there's plenty of information already out there to substantiate it.

    Yes, it's so obvious that one can only assume that those claiming she has no clear objectives are mischief-making.

    The issue, of course, isn't what we're aiming at, it's whether we can get it, and at what cost. To shed light on that, journalists should be snooping around on the continent, not here in the UK.
    That would mean actually having to do real investigative work, not just write articles about what Donald Trump said on Twitter today.
    Yeah, quite, and not just repeating what some Eurocrat says in a public statement.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    SeanT said:

    I suspect that has F all to do with Brexit, and 100% to do with Le Pen tacking to the centre, as she sees a real chance of winning.
    She has said she wants to ditch the Euro and restore the Franc with just the ECU as a temporary measure and restore control of French borders so not really
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,033

    FPT - I think it's pretty obvious what May is aiming for from the Brexit negotiations, and there's plenty of information already out there to substantiate it.

    Yes, it's so obvious that one can only assume that those claiming she has no clear objectives are mischief-making.

    The issue, of course, isn't what we're aiming at, it's whether we can get it, and at what cost. To shed light on that, journalists should be snooping around on the continent, not here in the UK.
    On that note:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/01/2017-other-eu-states-will-take-back-control-brexit
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    FPT - I think it's pretty obvious what May is aiming for from the Brexit negotiations, and there's plenty of information already out there to substantiate it.

    Yes, it's so obvious that one can only assume that those claiming she has no clear objectives are mischief-making.

    The issue, of course, isn't what we're aiming at, it's whether we can get it, and at what cost. To shed light on that, journalists should be snooping around on the continent, not here in the UK.
    Evening Richard

    I am not posting on here much lately due to work load but just wanted to thankyou for being the continuing voice of reason from the former Remain side. You have avoided hyperbole, posted measured analysis and have been a credit to your side of the argument.

    I suspect you will win our bet on the eventual form of Leave but it will be hardship to concede that one when the time comes.
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    Mike wrote: I was one of the guests on Newsnight’s first programme of 2017 and made comments about the current leader’s electability that have sparked off attacks on me. Sobeit.

    It's a cult, I fear it will all go a bit Jonestown when Corbyn loses a general election

    I only wish I could understand it. I really don't. What on earth possesses these people? It is delusion on a grand scale, possibly unprecedented scale (at least in UK in modern times).

    Last year, Matt Singh and I chatted about all the abuse we get for merely tweeting polling information that shows Labour/Corbyn doing badly, we're used to some more aggressive Kippers and Scot Nats, but these Corbynites are on a totally different level.
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    FPT - I think it's pretty obvious what May is aiming for from the Brexit negotiations, and there's plenty of information already out there to substantiate it.

    Yes, it's so obvious that one can only assume that those claiming she has no clear objectives are mischief-making.

    The issue, of course, isn't what we're aiming at, it's whether we can get it, and at what cost. To shed light on that, journalists should be snooping around on the continent, not here in the UK.
    Evening Richard

    I am not posting on here much lately due to work load but just wanted to thankyou for being the continuing voice of reason from the former Remain side. You have avoided hyperbole, posted measured analysis and have been a credit to your side of the argument.

    I suspect you will win our bet on the eventual form of Leave but it will be hardship to concede that one when the time comes.
    Thanks Richard - that's very generous of you.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    @SeanT "Le Pen tacking to the centre, as she sees a real chance of winning"

    But isn't the lesson of 2016 that doing the Establishment thing of tacking to the centre is the way to lose. If you are the anti-Establishment, you have to be outrageous and anti-PC - the more so the better for the upset chances.
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    FPT - I think it's pretty obvious what May is aiming for from the Brexit negotiations, and there's plenty of information already out there to substantiate it.

    Yes, it's so obvious that one can only assume that those claiming she has no clear objectives are mischief-making.

    The issue, of course, isn't what we're aiming at, it's whether we can get it, and at what cost. To shed light on that, journalists should be snooping around on the continent, not here in the UK.
    Evening Richard

    I am not posting on here much lately due to work load but just wanted to thankyou for being the continuing voice of reason from the former Remain side. You have avoided hyperbole, posted measured analysis and have been a credit to your side of the argument.

    I suspect you will win our bet on the eventual form of Leave but it will be hardship to concede that one when the time comes.
    Thanks Richard - that's very generous of you.
    Just reading back I realise I mistyped. It should have said it will be NO hardship to concede. :-)
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    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    SeanT said:

    ScreamingEagles

    Indeed it is a cult around Corbyn, the same behaviour is displayed with the Leave crowd IMO in the media and this website.

    With regard to the thread I would be very happy if Starmer became Labour leader, I could see him as PM. I would vote Labour if Starmer was leader. Likewise Umunna or Tristram Hunt (He should have done an Osborne and got rid of his first name imo! Tristram is hardly a name of the people, I suppose it could be worse like Gideon....

    Would you vote for them just because of Brexit?

    By the time of the next election, we will have Brexited, almost certainly, so it won't be an issue.

    So you'd vote Labour because....?
    I detest Teresa May, the Tories have dropped the ball in my opinion. I fundamentally disagree with the direction they are going in policy terms. I voted Tory in 2015 but regret doing this now. Brexit is the icing on the cake as far as I am concerned. It is not being patriotic to defenestrate your own country economically and politically. What the Tories are overseeing is the biggest collapse in international clout since the Suez crisis IMO. The immigration will still go on, the poor will be left behind by the rich, the banks will be given taxpayer cash to help them compete. Brexit is the biggest con ever perpetrated on this country. If we are truthful the 2008 crisis would have hit the economy whether Labour or the Tories were in power, the tories were committed to Labours economic plan when the crash happened. The financial plan delivered by the Tories is very similar to the one Darling advocated in 2010.

    So I will not vote Tory again, they need to be put in opposition. Then maybe once they have regained their senses and deliver one nation polices instead of just talking about I might vote for them again.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    Mike wrote: I was one of the guests on Newsnight’s first programme of 2017 and made comments about the current leader’s electability that have sparked off attacks on me. Sobeit.

    It's a cult, I fear it will all go a bit Jonestown when Corbyn loses a general election

    I only wish I could understand it. I really don't. What on earth possesses these people? It is delusion on a grand scale, possibly unprecedented scale (at least in UK in modern times).

    Last year, Matt Singh and I chatted about all the abuse we get for merely tweeting polling information that shows Labour/Corbyn doing badly, we're used to some more aggressive Kippers and Scot Nats, but these Corbynites are on a totally different level.
    Is there some psychological term for when people become more strident and aggressive when they realise deep down they are wrong and have backed an utter disaster?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    edited January 2017

    The enduring mystery in this market is why David Miliband's price remains so short. Hope springs eternal for Blairites, I suppose.

    Now that Hillary can't offer him a job, I wonder if he might move back to the UK, and well those of us who have been laying him might not feel so smug.

    The malign evil of Donald Trump knows no bounds.
    David Miliband earns £425,000 a year in his current role and lives in Manhattan, why on earth would he want to come back to be a backbench MP on less than a fifth of that salary for a party which is presently polling 24% and did not even vote for him as leader when his opponent was his own brother?
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    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    edited January 2017

    MaxPB said:

    FPT - I think it's pretty obvious what May is aiming for from the Brexit negotiations, and there's plenty of information already out there to substantiate it.

    Yes, it's so obvious that one can only assume that those claiming she has no clear objectives are mischief-making.

    The issue, of course, isn't what we're aiming at, it's whether we can get it, and at what cost. To shed light on that, journalists should be snooping around on the continent, not here in the UK.
    That would mean actually having to do real investigative work, not just write articles about what Donald Trump said on Twitter today.
    Yeah, quite, and not just repeating what some Eurocrat says in a public statement.
    Journalism has come down with a sickness on both sides of the Atlantic. Look at how readily the WaPo accepted the government line on the now debunked hack on a US electricity grid in Vermont, look at how our journalists just accept at face value government, party or EU statements without giving them a proper investigation before pressing the publish button. Journalism seems to have become government PR regurgitation plus clickbait for the advertising hits. What a sad turn of events.
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    Mike wrote: I was one of the guests on Newsnight’s first programme of 2017 and made comments about the current leader’s electability that have sparked off attacks on me. Sobeit.

    It's a cult, I fear it will all go a bit Jonestown when Corbyn loses a general election

    I only wish I could understand it. I really don't. What on earth possesses these people? It is delusion on a grand scale, possibly unprecedented scale (at least in UK in modern times).

    Last year, Matt Singh and I chatted about all the abuse we get for merely tweeting polling information that shows Labour/Corbyn doing badly, we're used to some more aggressive Kippers and Scot Nats, but these Corbynites are on a totally different level.
    Is there some psychological term for when people become more strident and aggressive when they realise deep down they are wrong and have backed an utter disaster?
    I'm working on the Kübler-Ross model, they are that Anger stage.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    HYUFD said:

    The enduring mystery in this market is why David Miliband's price remains so short. Hope springs eternal for Blairites, I suppose.

    Now that Hillary can't offer him a job, I wonder if he might move back to the UK, and well those of us who have been laying him might not feel so smug.

    The malign evil of Donald Trump knows no bounds.
    David Miliband earns £425,000 a year in his current role and lives in Manhattan, why on earth would he want to come back to be a backbench MP on less than a fifth of that salary for a party which is presently polling 24% and did not even vote for him as leader when his opponent was his own brother?
    His wife wants to come home :-)
  • Options

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    A Carrington Event.
  • Options
    MTimT said:

    @SeanT "Le Pen tacking to the centre, as she sees a real chance of winning"

    But isn't the lesson of 2016 that doing the Establishment thing of tacking to the centre is the way to lose. If you are the anti-Establishment, you have to be outrageous and anti-PC - the more so the better for the upset chances.

    MLP doesn't have the good fortune of running against someone as dreadful as HC.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,033

    Mike wrote: I was one of the guests on Newsnight’s first programme of 2017 and made comments about the current leader’s electability that have sparked off attacks on me. Sobeit.

    It's a cult, I fear it will all go a bit Jonestown when Corbyn loses a general election

    I only wish I could understand it. I really don't. What on earth possesses these people? It is delusion on a grand scale, possibly unprecedented scale (at least in UK in modern times).

    Last year, Matt Singh and I chatted about all the abuse we get for merely tweeting polling information that shows Labour/Corbyn doing badly, we're used to some more aggressive Kippers and Scot Nats, but these Corbynites are on a totally different level.
    Is there some psychological term for when people become more strident and aggressive when they realise deep down they are wrong and have backed an utter disaster?
    Brexititis.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    Russia invades Estonia. Or is that your WW III?
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Mike wrote: I was one of the guests on Newsnight’s first programme of 2017 and made comments about the current leader’s electability that have sparked off attacks on me. Sobeit.

    It's a cult, I fear it will all go a bit Jonestown when Corbyn loses a general election

    I only wish I could understand it. I really don't. What on earth possesses these people? It is delusion on a grand scale, possibly unprecedented scale (at least in UK in modern times).

    Last year, Matt Singh and I chatted about all the abuse we get for merely tweeting polling information that shows Labour/Corbyn doing badly, we're used to some more aggressive Kippers and Scot Nats, but these Corbynites are on a totally different level.
    Is there some psychological term for when people become more strident and aggressive when they realise deep down they are wrong and have backed an utter disaster?
    Brexititis.
    Senile Remainia.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    Mike wrote: I was one of the guests on Newsnight’s first programme of 2017 and made comments about the current leader’s electability that have sparked off attacks on me. Sobeit.

    It's a cult, I fear it will all go a bit Jonestown when Corbyn loses a general election

    I only wish I could understand it. I really don't. What on earth possesses these people? It is delusion on a grand scale, possibly unprecedented scale (at least in UK in modern times).

    Last year, Matt Singh and I chatted about all the abuse we get for merely tweeting polling information that shows Labour/Corbyn doing badly, we're used to some more aggressive Kippers and Scot Nats, but these Corbynites are on a totally different level.
    Is there some psychological term for when people become more strident and aggressive when they realise deep down they are wrong and have backed an utter disaster?
    Brexititis.
    :+1:
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    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    A Carrington Event.
    Cheers.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    A Carrington Event.
    The Sun is in a bit of a quiet phase at the moment, luckily for us!
  • Options

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    Russia invades Estonia. Or is that your WW III?
    That's WWIII
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    The enduring mystery in this market is why David Miliband's price remains so short. Hope springs eternal for Blairites, I suppose.

    Now that Hillary can't offer him a job, I wonder if he might move back to the UK, and well those of us who have been laying him might not feel so smug.

    The malign evil of Donald Trump knows no bounds.
    David Miliband earns £425,000 a year in his current role and lives in Manhattan, why on earth would he want to come back to be a backbench MP on less than a fifth of that salary for a party which is presently polling 24% and did not even vote for him as leader when his opponent was his own brother?
    Shouldn't that be "David Miliband is paid £425,000 a year in his current role".

    I doubt he 'earns' it.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    The ultimate black swan is surely the publication of your AV thread! :p
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,141

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    A cunning and devious plan, pursued secretly and ruthlessly by a certain Theresa May.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    Russia invades Estonia. Or is that your WW III?
    ...also, planet X or Nibiru:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/planet-x-nibiru-headed-earth-doomsayers-article-1.2504846
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    Another removal of the quote button?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280

    FPT - I think it's pretty obvious what May is aiming for from the Brexit negotiations, and there's plenty of information already out there to substantiate it.

    Yes, it's so obvious that one can only assume that those claiming she has no clear objectives are mischief-making.

    The issue, of course, isn't what we're aiming at, it's whether we can get it, and at what cost. To shed light on that, journalists should be snooping around on the continent, not here in the UK.
    Your second paragraph is spot on.

    On the first, I think that, sadly, there are not a few journalists shy of doing a bit of graft on what is fairly straightforward research, and the doing some dispassionate thinking on the conclusions. I think it was Robert Smithson (?) who put it well when he said that the UK objective is to maximise our access for goods and services, whilst minimising the financial, economic, immigration, and constitutional costs. Or, to put it even more simply, maximising the take-back-control part, whilst minimising economic disruption.

    In terms of political success for Theresa May, if she can demonstrate she's banked a net saving in our EU budgetary contributions, that we've exited the EU political institutions and the jurisdiction of the ECJ, together with an abolition of the absolute right of freedom of movement from the EU, and a corresponding net reduction in EU migration levels, without a major economic impact by 2020, she'll be fine, even if it doesn't all "kick in" fully for 10 years.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    SeanT said:

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    That's a good idea for a thread. It might concentrate Remoaner minds. Sure, they WANT to stop Brexit, but how the F do you DO that, given the political reality of 1. the referendum result, and 2. both main parties (for different reasons) being in favour of it (albeit through gritted teeth, in Labour's case)

    I can see one possible fifth alternative. Corbyn dies (or weirdly resigns) and some anti-Brexit charismatic centrist Labourite seizes the leadership, and takes the party to massive opinion poll leads, and the Tories freak out and call a 2nd referendum on the terms.

    1% chance? 0.1%?
    Zombie Corbyn might continue after death, but then it may trigger event 3...
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    Russia invades Estonia. Or is that your WW III?
    That's WWIII
    Dunno then, as under current conditions and with Trump it is possible this would just result in a shrug, Sudetenland style.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited January 2017
    Further to the question of what the British government will be aiming at, to my mind the only big uncertainty is whether they will try to remain in a Customs Union with the EU. It's quite an attractive option (assuming of course that it's available, which it might not be).

    Advantages, based on the type of deal Turkey has:

    - No disruption at all to our manufacturing industries and most importantly the supply-chain of the car industry
    - No CAP, CFP, or EU environmental law
    - No interference by the ECJ in our affairs, except possibly on the narrow area of interpreting the operation of the customs union itself
    - No ever-closer union or political union
    - Crucially, no freedom of movement requirement
    - Low or very low contributions to the EU budget

    Disadvantages:

    - We couldn't do trade deals (in respect of manufactured goods) with other countries, other than reproducing the EU ones.
    - Probably wouldn't be great for the City and other service industries (but we probably have to accept that anyway under any deal)
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    That's a good idea for a thread. It might concentrate Remoaner minds. Sure, they WANT to stop Brexit, but how the F do you DO that, given the political reality of 1. the referendum result, and 2. both main parties (for different reasons) being in favour of it (albeit through gritted teeth, in Labour's case)

    I can see one possible fifth alternative. Corbyn dies (or weirdly resigns) and some anti-Brexit charismatic centrist Labourite seizes the leadership, and takes the party to massive opinion poll leads, and the Tories freak out and call a 2nd referendum on the terms.

    1% chance? 0.1%?
    It is the party in power that takes the political hit when the economy has a major episode.

    Both the Tories and Labour supported UK membership of the ERM but Black Wednesday happened on the Tories watch, and their economic reputation took a hit for over a decade.

    Dave and George supported Gordon Brown's spending/borrowin, then when the great financial crisis it was Labour who took the hit, and you could argue nearly a decade on, Labour's economic reputation is still tainted by that.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    philiph said:

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    Another removal of the quote button?
    :smiley:
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    MaxPB said:

    SeanT said:

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    That's a good idea for a thread. It might concentrate Remoaner minds. Sure, they WANT to stop Brexit, but how the F do you DO that, given the political reality of 1. the referendum result, and 2. both main parties (for different reasons) being in favour of it (albeit through gritted teeth, in Labour's case)

    I can see one possible fifth alternative. Corbyn dies (or weirdly resigns) and some anti-Brexit charismatic centrist Labourite seizes the leadership, and takes the party to massive opinion poll leads, and the Tories freak out and call a 2nd referendum on the terms.

    1% chance? 0.1%?
    Zombie Corbyn might continue after death, but then it may trigger event 3...
    Wasn't Tito rumoured to have been dead for years before it was finally announced and all hell broke lose?
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    @TSE One of Italy's volcanoes having such a massive eruption that it wipes out most of the EU so that there's nothing to leave.
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    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    Kinnersley - Labour leadership in the late 80s?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    MTimT said:

    @TSE One of Italy's volcanoes having such a massive eruption that it wipes out most of the EU so that there's nothing to leave.

    http://www.inquisitr.com/3848611/supervolcano-eruption-warning-campi-flegrei-beneath-naples-in-italy-could-erupt-catastrophically-experts-say/

    Will make for some nice sunsets though!
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    FPT - I think it's pretty obvious what May is aiming for from the Brexit negotiations, and there's plenty of information already out there to substantiate it.

    Yes, it's so obvious that one can only assume that those claiming she has no clear objectives are mischief-making.

    The issue, of course, isn't what we're aiming at, it's whether we can get it, and at what cost. To shed light on that, journalists should be snooping around on the continent, not here in the UK.
    Your second paragraph is spot on.

    On the first, I think that, sadly, there are not a few journalists shy of doing a bit of graft on what is fairly straightforward research, and the doing some dispassionate thinking on the conclusions. I think it was Robert Smithson (?) who put it well when he said that the UK objective is to maximise our access for goods and services, whilst minimising the financial, economic, immigration, and constitutional costs. Or, to put it even more simply, maximising the take-back-control part, whilst minimising economic disruption.

    In terms of political success for Theresa May, if she can demonstrate she's banked a net saving in our EU budgetary contributions, that we've exited the EU political institutions and the jurisdiction of the ECJ, together with an abolition of the absolute right of freedom of movement from the EU, and a corresponding net reduction in EU migration levels, without a major economic impact by 2020, she'll be fine, even if it doesn't all "kick in" fully for 10 years.
    Except that soft Brexit means following rules set by others, while having no say in the rules. It is not Red White and Blue Brexit, it is Gimp suit Brexit.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    The EU toiters on the edge in the next 18 months, realises it really does need Britain to stay, folds, and comes back with a better deal than Cameron's that addresses almost all of his points in Bloomberg, and gives the UK a proper deal with an emergency brake.

    I know, I know, pigs might fly. But you did say Black Swans.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    SeanT said:

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    That's a good idea for a thread. It might concentrate Remoaner minds. Sure, they WANT to stop Brexit, but how the F do you DO that, given the political reality of 1. the referendum result, and 2. both main parties (for different reasons) being in favour of it (albeit through gritted teeth, in Labour's case)

    I can see one possible fifth alternative. Corbyn dies (or weirdly resigns) and some anti-Brexit charismatic centrist Labourite seizes the leadership, and takes the party to massive opinion poll leads, and the Tories freak out and call a 2nd referendum on the terms.

    1% chance? 0.1%?
    Zombie Corbyn might continue after death, but then it may trigger event 3...
    If Corbyn pegs it/has a moment of clarity and jacks it in, the plan of the Teenage Momentum Middle Class Hobby Socialists is to install John McDonnell as leader.

    It would be quite impressive if they managed to bring in the only man in Britain less electable than Jezza.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    MTimT said:

    @TSE One of Italy's volcanoes having such a massive eruption that it wipes out most of the EU so that there's nothing to leave.

    By this do you mean one of their many fine banks?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957

    HYUFD said:

    The enduring mystery in this market is why David Miliband's price remains so short. Hope springs eternal for Blairites, I suppose.

    Now that Hillary can't offer him a job, I wonder if he might move back to the UK, and well those of us who have been laying him might not feel so smug.

    The malign evil of Donald Trump knows no bounds.
    David Miliband earns £425,000 a year in his current role and lives in Manhattan, why on earth would he want to come back to be a backbench MP on less than a fifth of that salary for a party which is presently polling 24% and did not even vote for him as leader when his opponent was his own brother?
    His wife wants to come home :-)
    How do you know? Even if she did I doubt she would want to be wife of a backbench Labour MP
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957

    HYUFD said:

    The enduring mystery in this market is why David Miliband's price remains so short. Hope springs eternal for Blairites, I suppose.

    Now that Hillary can't offer him a job, I wonder if he might move back to the UK, and well those of us who have been laying him might not feel so smug.

    The malign evil of Donald Trump knows no bounds.
    David Miliband earns £425,000 a year in his current role and lives in Manhattan, why on earth would he want to come back to be a backbench MP on less than a fifth of that salary for a party which is presently polling 24% and did not even vote for him as leader when his opponent was his own brother?
    Shouldn't that be "David Miliband is paid £425,000 a year in his current role".

    I doubt he 'earns' it.
    Either way he has little incentive to return to be an MP in Corbyn's Labour Party
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,304
    edited January 2017
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    I'm writing a piece for Sunday on the Blackest of Black Swans that might stop Brexit, here's the things on my list

    1) World War III
    2) An economic crisis to rival the great depression
    3) The Zombie Apocalypse
    4) The Rapture

    Are there any other things that should be on my list?

    That's a good idea for a thread. It might concentrate Remoaner minds. Sure, they WANT to stop Brexit, but how the F do you DO that, given the political reality of 1. the referendum result, and 2. both main parties (for different reasons) being in favour of it (albeit through gritted teeth, in Labour's case)

    I can see one possible fifth alternative. Corbyn dies (or weirdly resigns) and some anti-Brexit charismatic centrist Labourite seizes the leadership, and takes the party to massive opinion poll leads, and the Tories freak out and call a 2nd referendum on the terms.

    1% chance? 0.1%?
    It is the party in power that takes the political hit when the economy has a major episode.

    Both the Tories and Labour supported UK membership of the ERM but Black Wednesday happened on the Tories watch, and their economic reputation took a hit for over a decade.

    Dave and George supported Gordon Brown's spending/borrowin, then when the great financial crisis it was Labour who took the hit, and you could argue nearly a decade on, Labour's economic reputation is still tainted by that.
    Oh, I agree, the best bet for Remoaners is a HUGE recession clearly tied to Brexit, leading to a vast swing in public opinion

    Just don't think it is likely. 5%?
    We are due a cyclical recession, but people might forget correlation doesn't equal causation, I think it will depend on the type of recession we get.

    For me a 'proper' recession is when interest rates and inflation are in double digits, the great financial crisis didn't see either of those, just imagine if interest rates hit 5%, not high by historical standards, but that has the potential to bugger up the housing market.

    Then I can see Corbyn ahead by 10% in the polls.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,141

    Probably wouldn't be great for the City and other service industries (but we probably have to accept that anyway under any deal)

    Not strictly true, the British could probably get a deal that was basically the status quo, but without voting rights.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Further to the question of what the British government will be aiming at, to my mind the only big uncertainty is whether they will try to remain in a Customs Union with the EU. It's quite an attractive option (assuming of course that it's available, which it might not be).

    Advantages, based on the type of deal Turkey has:

    - No disruption at all to our manufacturing industries and most importantly the supply-chain of the car industry
    - No CAP, CFP, or EU environmental law
    - No interference by the ECJ in our affairs, except possibly on the narrow area of interpreting the operation of the customs union itself
    - No ever-closer union or political union
    - Crucially, no freedom of movement requirement
    - Low or very low contributions to the EU budget

    Disadvantages:

    - We couldn't do trade deals (in respect of manufactured goods) with other countries, other than reproducing the EU ones.

    I think a reverse Switzerland needs looking at, I did some preliminary research, but I didn't get a chance to complete it before I left.

    Essentially the idea is to extend the EU customs zone to the UK for any re-exported goods and the UK acts as a customs agent for the EU for any tariffable goods that enter the UK and are then exported to the EU, those tariffs are set by the EU and conform to their rates. For goods that don't get re-exported to the EU we would have our own tariff rate. Any increment would be payable on exportation to the EU. Slightly more complicated than just staying in the customs union, but much more flexible for our domestic markets and for exports to non-EU destinations.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,033

    Kinnersley - Labour leadership in the late 80s?

    LOL! Sean should adopt that as a theme. The Footleys, the Milimans...
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    @SeanT "Le Pen tacking to the centre, as she sees a real chance of winning"

    But isn't the lesson of 2016 that doing the Establishment thing of tacking to the centre is the way to lose. If you are the anti-Establishment, you have to be outrageous and anti-PC - the more so the better for the upset chances.

    As I see it she'll stay out on the outrageous hard right, or far right, on sociocultural issues - e.g. Islam and migration. But she'll try and centre herself on Europe. Polls show most French are still pro-EU and pro-euro. Why antagonise them, on a 2nd order issue, that can be dealt with later?

    The French are deeply conservative and cautious. They generally hate change - which is why they support her on migration but oppose her on the EU. She has to deal with that.
    Yay, the Quote button is back!!

    My comment was not meant entirely seriously. But your point is well made. Europe is not central to FN's raison d'être, and if in power, they can address the issue as they wish at that point.
This discussion has been closed.