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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » POLL ALERT: Labour has a ‘Corbyn problem’ and it’s not going a

SystemSystem Posts: 11,006
edited February 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » POLL ALERT: Labour has a ‘Corbyn problem’ and it’s not going away

A new Polling Matters / Opinium survey, taken before the Copeland and Stoke by-elections, shows that voters think Corbyn is the wrong person to lead Labour into a General Election, with those considering voting Labour more likely to do so if he is replaced. Keiran Pedley explains.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Go Jezza go .... :smile:
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    JackW said:

    Go Jezza go .... :smile:

    Stupid DiscussionID is required.....

    I was robbed, robbed I tell you!
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    And the winner of the New Thread Oscar is .....

    Pause for dramatic effect :

    "RobD"
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    JackW said:

    And the winner of the New Thread Oscar is .....

    Pause for dramatic effect :

    "RobD"

    Yes, I just read about that. LOL :D
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Ooooppps ....

    Wrong envelope ....

    The real winner of the New Thread Oscar is ....

    Extra long pause for acute dramatic effect :

    "JackW"
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    I think that'll be the last time the Oscars are hosted at Auchentennach Castle :smiley:
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    I'd like to thank my nanny, my butler, the stable girl from 95 years ago ..... Sniff ....

    my postman, the postman's wife and her dog - Spot .....

    Tears ....

  • Options
    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited February 2017
    You could not Trump it when it came to announcing the Oscar for best movie... Over to the fake news department at the White House for verification of which movie won the oscar...
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    "Moonlight becomes you it goes with your hair ....."

    Can't remember the rest .....

    "La la la la la ....

    We're all in La La Land now

    ..................................

    Someone sang that to OGH once ..... not any more ..... :smiley:
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,842
    I claim the real first, after the stewards enquiry and double checking that the correct envelope was read out.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Sandpit said:

    I claim the real first, after the stewards enquiry and double checking that the correct envelope was read out.

    JackW was using a green screen! :p
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Gerald Kaufman wasn't just the oldest current MP; he was the oldest serving MP since 1972 or 1964 (depending how old S. O. Davies was when he died in 1972 (85 as he claimed or 92 as he probably was)).
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    I'll steal the Oscar statues when they're all asleep...
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Ken Clarke becomes the new Father of the House.
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    First!

    Yours, Jeremy Corbyn
  • Options
    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    JohnLoony said:

    Gerald Kaufman wasn't just the oldest current MP; he was the oldest serving MP since 1972 or 1964 (depending how old S. O. Davies was when he died in 1972 (85 as he claimed or 92 as he probably was)).

    His seat is so safe, even Jezza can't lose it. I assume Labour will be 1/100. If Labour lost it, then yes, they're screwed.

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    Morning all.

    OMG, OMG, OMG – wrong film named best picture at Oscars…! - Gerald Kaufman. RIP.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    JackW said:

    Ken Clarke becomes the new Father of the House.

    Dennis Skinner must be thinking, "come on, I just have to outlive Clarke and it'll be my turn."
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    John McDonnell is indulging in conspiracy theories:

    http://labourbriefing.squarespace.com/home/2017/2/26/the-soft-coup-is-under-way

    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Morning all.

    OMG, OMG, OMG – wrong film named best picture at Oscars…! - Gerald Kaufman. RIP.

    And .... and @RobD missed a "First" .... :smile:

    Truly a new day of shocks has dawned, has it not?!?!
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    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited February 2017
    Off Topic

    What a totally futile exercise it has been this year attempting to turn a profit by betting on the Oscars.
    Despite my having correctly picked the winner in 17 of the 24 categories, I still succeeded in showing a loss of 1.75 units or 7% (25 units invested with 23.25 units returned) on account of the miniscule odds available on the favourites which were as short as 1/20, most of which were clearly therefore foregone conclusions.
    The only way to make any money is to find a gem of an outsider, as Roger succeeded in doing last year, or by identifying 3 or 4 winners at odds rather better than evens. An impossible task on this occasion.

    Oh well, there's always next year!

  • Options
    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Dixie said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Gerald Kaufman wasn't just the oldest current MP; he was the oldest serving MP since 1972 or 1964 (depending how old S. O. Davies was when he died in 1972 (85 as he claimed or 92 as he probably was)).

    His seat is so safe, even Jezza can't lose it. I assume Labour will be 1/100. If Labour lost it, then yes, they're screwed.

    Something tells me that Labour party activists will still be ordered to pile into this seat and money will no object within campaign limits when it comes to shoring up the core vote in this seat.
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    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    fitalass said:

    Dixie said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Gerald Kaufman wasn't just the oldest current MP; he was the oldest serving MP since 1972 or 1964 (depending how old S. O. Davies was when he died in 1972 (85 as he claimed or 92 as he probably was)).

    His seat is so safe, even Jezza can't lose it. I assume Labour will be 1/100. If Labour lost it, then yes, they're screwed.

    Something tells me that Labour party activists will still be ordered to pile into this seat and money will no object within campaign limits when it comes to shoring up the core vote in this seat.
    Agreed. But, if election held in May, on same day as Local elections, there will be far less focus, if any. It's safe, and Jezza will want to keep i tout of the limelight.
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    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    John McDonnell is indulging in conspiracy theories:

    http://labourbriefing.squarespace.com/home/2017/2/26/the-soft-coup-is-under-way

    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

    The funny thing is that all political parties and factions indulge in this! Including Momentum.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    fitalass said:

    Dixie said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Gerald Kaufman wasn't just the oldest current MP; he was the oldest serving MP since 1972 or 1964 (depending how old S. O. Davies was when he died in 1972 (85 as he claimed or 92 as he probably was)).

    His seat is so safe, even Jezza can't lose it. I assume Labour will be 1/100. If Labour lost it, then yes, they're screwed.

    Something tells me that Labour party activists will still be ordered to pile into this seat and money will no object within campaign limits when it comes to shoring up the core vote in this seat.
    Do they have buses in Gorton cos the Labour voters can't afford cars.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Gorton is quite a big test for the Liberal Democrats.
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    Dixie said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Gerald Kaufman wasn't just the oldest current MP; he was the oldest serving MP since 1972 or 1964 (depending how old S. O. Davies was when he died in 1972 (85 as he claimed or 92 as he probably was)).

    His seat is so safe, even Jezza can't lose it. I assume Labour will be 1/100. If Labour lost it, then yes, they're screwed.

    Greens came second in 2015, with under 10%.
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    McDonnell: "The coup plotters are willing to sacrifice the Party at elections just to topple Jeremy and prevent a socialist leading the Party. It is more important to them that they regain control of the Party than it is to win elections."

    Pot, Kettle!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    The Membership still believe that I was, am, and forever will be first. So I am going nowhere and for working people everywhere, I will continue to proclaim:

    First!
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Apparently they have two sets of envelopes at the Oscars. What a bunch of muppets.
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    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    Gorton second place likely to be a big fight among all the other main parties, I would say pressure on Lib Dems to pick up second, anything less than a clear 2nd not good. Their results in 2001, 2005 and 2010 support this. However UKIP likely fight hard and dirty over LEAVE vote which should be entertaining.

    Cant see Doc Nuttall trying again here, his scouse accent not likely to go down too well, and Aaron Banks' comments on pushing the immigrant line yesterday also tricky here.
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    tlg86 said:

    Apparently they have two sets of envelopes at the Oscars. What a bunch of muppets.

    It couldn't have happened to a more self-opinionated, self-serving deserving bunch.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited February 2017
    tlg86 said:

    Apparently they have two sets of envelopes at the Oscars. What a bunch of muppets.

    Do you know what the second set is supposedly for?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    On topic - those Farron numbers are awful. Right person as party leader: Jeremy Corbyn 24%, Tim Farron 25%. He is only saved because so many people don't know who he is still. Which is damning in its own right.

    I expect a whole series of threads with observations like "The above numbers clearly show that Tim Farron is part of the problem....The solution is obvious. The LibDems need new leadership. Whether it will get it (and when) is anybody’s guess."
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    This is like the time Kimi Raikkonen was declared the winner of the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix, but then had to hand it over to Giancarlo Fisichella the following week because the FIA had calculated correctly who was leading at the last complete lap before the race was red flagged.
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    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    Gorton second place likely to be a big fight among all the other main parties, I would say pressure on Lib Dems to pick up second, anything less than a clear 2nd not good. Their results in 2001, 2005 and 2010 support this. However UKIP likely fight hard and dirty over LEAVE vote which should be entertaining.

    Cant see Doc Nuttall trying again here, his scouse accent not likely to go down too well, and Aaron Banks' comments on pushing the immigrant line yesterday also tricky here.

    Agreed. 2nd place only betting value and Libs should be nailed on. For Tories, any swing will do, even 0.1%
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Apparently they have two sets of envelopes at the Oscars. What a bunch of muppets.

    Do you know what the second set is supposedly for?
    Back up apparently - as if someone's going to runoff with the originals!
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    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    Dixie said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Gerald Kaufman wasn't just the oldest current MP; he was the oldest serving MP since 1972 or 1964 (depending how old S. O. Davies was when he died in 1972 (85 as he claimed or 92 as he probably was)).

    His seat is so safe, even Jezza can't lose it. I assume Labour will be 1/100. If Labour lost it, then yes, they're screwed.

    Greens came second in 2015, with under 10%.
    Incredible from the water melons (red on inside)
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Apparently they have two sets of envelopes at the Oscars. What a bunch of muppets.

    Do you know what the second set is supposedly for?
    Back up apparently - as if someone's going to runoff with the originals!
    Ah, so it was the backup from a previous prize they read out? Maybe next time they'll print the name of the category on the front of the envelope.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Apparently they have two sets of envelopes at the Oscars. What a bunch of muppets.

    Do you know what the second set is supposedly for?
    Back up apparently - as if someone's going to runoff with the originals!
    Ah, so it was the backup from a previous prize they read out? Maybe next time they'll print the name of the category on the front of the envelope.
    It seems so. The first story was that somehow Beatty had gotten the previous award (Best Actress), but Emma Stone says she had it the whole time.

    I thought they printed the nominations on the outside of the envelope. I think I've heard a story that someone once didn't actually open the envelope and assumed the winner was the first name printed on the outside! Luckily, it was actually the winner. So it would be interesting to know how the nominations were read out in this case.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125

    John McDonnell is indulging in conspiracy theories:

    http://labourbriefing.squarespace.com/home/2017/2/26/the-soft-coup-is-under-way

    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

    That piece shows a truly bizarre mind set. Bordering on insanity. I wonder what he thought he would achieve by it other than a scream of frustration.
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Perhaps it's the "Trump Effect":
    Say one thing and mean whatever.
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    On topic - those Farron numbers are awful. Right person as party leader: Jeremy Corbyn 24%, Tim Farron 25%. He is only saved because so many people don't know who he is still. Which is damning in its own right.

    I expect a whole series of threads with observations like "The above numbers clearly show that Tim Farron is part of the problem....The solution is obvious. The LibDems need new leadership. Whether it will get it (and when) is anybody’s guess."

    It really shouldn't take that long .... they only have 8 (excl. Farron) to pick from.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited February 2017

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?

    Here's the link from yesterday, out of the UK from 1992 to 2013 - http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singaporean-fighting-deportation-from-britain
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,918

    On topic - those Farron numbers are awful. Right person as party leader: Jeremy Corbyn 24%, Tim Farron 25%. He is only saved because so many people don't know who he is still. Which is damning in its own right.

    I expect a whole series of threads with observations like "The above numbers clearly show that Tim Farron is part of the problem....The solution is obvious. The LibDems need new leadership. Whether it will get it (and when) is anybody’s guess."

    It really shouldn't take that long .... they only have 8 (excl. Farron) to pick from.
    Farron’s problem is, partly at least I suspect snobbery. He didn’t go to Oxbridge and therefore isn’t part of the PPE, and hangers on, circle.

    He’s been getting a bad deal from the media ever since he refused a Government position under Clegg.
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    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?
    She went back to look after her dying parents and until her deportation was caring for her husband.

    What kind of nation have we become?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/a-grandmother-has-been-deported-with-just-ps12-in-her-pocket?utm_term=.qakEvYOgg#.pojejArOO
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    Off Topic

    What a totally futile exercise it has been this year attempting to turn a profit by betting on the Oscars.
    Despite my having correctly picked the winner in 17 of the 24 categories, I still succeeded in showing a loss of 1.75 units or 7% (25 units invested with 23.25 units returned) on account of the miniscule odds available on the favourites which were as short as 1/20, most of which were clearly therefore foregone conclusions.
    The only way to make any money is to find a gem of an outsider, as Roger succeeded in doing last year, or by identifying 3 or 4 winners at odds rather better than evens. An impossible task on this occasion.

    Oh well, there's always next year!

    Annoyingly, Emma Stone won best actress as well rather than Roger's tips.

    Damn.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125
    There was a 9.2% swing from the Conservatives to Labour in Gorton in 2015. An astonishing result given the national trends. I don't think I have seen a bigger swing in favour of Labour at that election.

    Of course it was results like this that made the Labour vote so much less efficient than it had been in the Blair landslides. Piling up votes where they did least good.

    I think Corbyn exacerbates that tendency too. He does appeal to a hard core Labour supporter far more left wing that the country as a whole. Kieran's analysis shows that this is at the cost of repelling those whose support is needed to do well overall. If that is right then the current polling/electoral models probably understate the damage he would do in an election campaign.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited February 2017

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?
    She went back to look after her dying parents and until her deportation was caring for her husband.

    What kind of nation have we become?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/a-grandmother-has-been-deported-with-just-ps12-in-her-pocket?utm_term=.qakEvYOgg#.pojejArOO
    Yeah, that doesn't agree with what is stated here, that she was out of the UK between 1992 and 2013.

    http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singaporean-fighting-deportation-from-britain

    As for which to believe... The Straits Times or Buzzfeed.. hmmm, that's a tough one.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,890

    On topic - those Farron numbers are awful. Right person as party leader: Jeremy Corbyn 24%, Tim Farron 25%. He is only saved because so many people don't know who he is still. Which is damning in its own right.

    I expect a whole series of threads with observations like "The above numbers clearly show that Tim Farron is part of the problem....The solution is obvious. The LibDems need new leadership. Whether it will get it (and when) is anybody’s guess."

    That depends on quite what you think Farron's jobs as Lib Dem leader is. He is not going to be PM, and if he has any sense he knows that. Instead he has to rebuild the party. I tipped him as next Lib Dem party leader back in 2012 or so for exactly that reason.

    The local election results and the Richmond Park by-election indicate he's on a good path. His important audience is inside his party and would-be and past supporters.

    Corbyn, on the other hand, is in a position (however unlikely) to be PM. His audience should be as much of the electorate as possible. I say should be, as he's rather spectacularly failing at that.
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    Manchester Gorton voted nearly 2:1 Remain. This is a seat where the Lib Dems must be looking to make major progress.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Manchester Gorton voted nearly 2:1 Remain. This is a seat where the Lib Dems must be looking to make major progress.

    Any clues as to why their numbers tanked so heavily in 2015?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,842
    Very good last thread by @stodge by the way, and now sadly a by-election coming up for Labour in what should be a very safe seat
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?
    She went back to look after her dying parents and until her deportation was caring for her husband.

    What kind of nation have we become?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/a-grandmother-has-been-deported-with-just-ps12-in-her-pocket?utm_term=.qakEvYOgg#.pojejArOO
    One that applies laws as they stand, not as we want them to be?
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?

    Here's the link from yesterday, out of the UK from 1992 to 2013 - http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singaporean-fighting-deportation-from-britain
    Aargh! We established all of this yesterday painfully and at great length. It was like teeth being pulled last time but at least everyone eventually accepted the facts and moved on.

    Now the second wave of banzai morons are running straight at the truth with bayonets fixed.

    In the name of all that's holy can we just ignore him, please. It's one of the thicker ones this time.though That may or may not help.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    edited February 2017
    And the winner of the Oscars is ......

    Donald Trump


    The Academy screw up saved us from 6 hours of thespian moaning and gave the Donald a clean break
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    GeoffM said:

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?

    Here's the link from yesterday, out of the UK from 1992 to 2013 - http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singaporean-fighting-deportation-from-britain
    Aargh! We established all of this yesterday painfully and at great length. It was like teeth being pulled last time but at least everyone eventually accepted the facts and moved on.

    Now the second wave of banzai morons are running straight at the truth with bayonets fixed.

    In the name of all that's holy can we just ignore him, please. It's one of the thicker ones this time.though That may or may not help.
    Hey, at least I didn't mention the CNN video.. :smiley:
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    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?

    Here's the link from yesterday, out of the UK from 1992 to 2013 - http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singaporean-fighting-deportation-from-britain
    I think we determined last night that she'd lived here for only four years, three of them illegally.
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    I'm sorry, I can't get too worked up about Ms Clennell. The Leave vote was a vote to be unpleasant to foreigners and to self-justify it as something else afterwards. Ms Clennell's deportation and the reaction to it by Leavers is entirely consistent with that.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Apparently they have two sets of envelopes at the Oscars. What a bunch of muppets.

    Do you know what the second set is supposedly for?
    The other side of the stage see http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lights-cameras-briefcase-accountants-ready-for-the-oscars-wk728nndd for an interview with 2 people who won't be doing it next year..
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    On topic, Corbyn clearly must go - and sooner rather than later - but Labour need to do more than just change the leader if they don't just want to reascend to the giddy heights Ed Miliband achieved.
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    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?
    She went back to look after her dying parents and until her deportation was caring for her husband.

    What kind of nation have we become?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/a-grandmother-has-been-deported-with-just-ps12-in-her-pocket?utm_term=.qakEvYOgg#.pojejArOO
    Yeah, that doesn't agree with what is stated here, that she was out of the UK between 1992 and 2013.

    http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singaporean-fighting-deportation-from-britain

    As for which to believe... The Straits Times or Buzzfeed.. hmmm, that's a tough one.
    She was in Singapore until 1999.
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    Tanks on the lawn:

    Prime Minister Theresa May has urged voters across Scotland to use the upcoming local elections to express their opposition to Scottish independence.

    Writing exclusively for Holyrood magazine ahead of the Scottish Conservative conference, the PM frames the local elections, held on 4 May, on constitutional grounds.

    May also rejects SNP claims that Scotland’s vote to remain in the European Union has been ignored in Downing Street’s approach to Brexit negotiations, writing that “every voter had an equal say and the collective answer was final”.


    https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/exclusive-theresa-may-urges-scots-use-local-elections-reject-independence
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    RobD said:

    Manchester Gorton voted nearly 2:1 Remain. This is a seat where the Lib Dems must be looking to make major progress.

    Any clues as to why their numbers tanked so heavily in 2015?
    Coalition and student fees, innit.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?
    She went back to look after her dying parents and until her deportation was caring for her husband.

    What kind of nation have we become?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/a-grandmother-has-been-deported-with-just-ps12-in-her-pocket?utm_term=.qakEvYOgg#.pojejArOO
    Yeah, that doesn't agree with what is stated here, that she was out of the UK between 1992 and 2013.

    http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singaporean-fighting-deportation-from-britain

    As for which to believe... The Straits Times or Buzzfeed.. hmmm, that's a tough one.
    She was in Singapore until 1999.
    The article states

    The couple lived apart for years until she was finally able to re-enter Britain in 2013, on the basis of making another application within the country. She stayed on even though her subsequent applications failed.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    RobD said:

    GeoffM said:

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?

    Here's the link from yesterday, out of the UK from 1992 to 2013 - http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singaporean-fighting-deportation-from-britain
    Aargh! We established all of this yesterday painfully and at great length. It was like teeth being pulled last time but at least everyone eventually accepted the facts and moved on.

    Now the second wave of banzai morons are running straight at the truth with bayonets fixed.

    In the name of all that's holy can we just ignore him, please. It's one of the thicker ones this time.though That may or may not help.
    Hey, at least I didn't mention the CNN video.. :smiley:
    Quick! Hide behind the green screen!
    We might get away with it :)
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,842
    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Apparently they have two sets of envelopes at the Oscars. What a bunch of muppets.

    Do you know what the second set is supposedly for?
    Back up apparently - as if someone's going to runoff with the originals!
    I thought they had two adjudicators who collate the votes and fill in the envelopes separately, then double check with each other that they're all correct. One guy then hands the first set of envelopes out to the presenters with the awards, while the other keeps the backups in case they're needed.

    But LOL that Hollywood managed to screw up the biggest award on their biggest night of the year!
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    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?
    She went back to look after her dying parents and until her deportation was caring for her husband.

    What kind of nation have we become?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/a-grandmother-has-been-deported-with-just-ps12-in-her-pocket?utm_term=.qakEvYOgg#.pojejArOO
    Yeah, that doesn't agree with what is stated here, that she was out of the UK between 1992 and 2013.

    http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singaporean-fighting-deportation-from-britain

    As for which to believe... The Straits Times or Buzzfeed.. hmmm, that's a tough one.
    This looks very much like the second step in an orchestrated drip-drip campaign to bully the Home Office into not enforcing our immigration laws.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    There was a 9.2% swing from the Conservatives to Labour in Gorton in 2015. An astonishing result given the national trends. I don't think I have seen a bigger swing in favour of Labour at that election.

    Of course it was results like this that made the Labour vote so much less efficient than it had been in the Blair landslides. Piling up votes where they did least good.

    I think Corbyn exacerbates that tendency too. He does appeal to a hard core Labour supporter far more left wing that the country as a whole. Kieran's analysis shows that this is at the cost of repelling those whose support is needed to do well overall. If that is right then the current polling/electoral models probably understate the damage he would do in an election campaign.

    I'd have thought Manchester Gorton (like Brighton, Cambridge, Bristol West, and left-wing inner London) is Corbynism ground zero.

    If nothing else it should tell us about the measure of his current appeal in his heartlands.
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    RobD said:

    Manchester Gorton voted nearly 2:1 Remain. This is a seat where the Lib Dems must be looking to make major progress.

    Any clues as to why their numbers tanked so heavily in 2015?
    It's the student area of Manchester.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?
    She went back to look after her dying parents and until her deportation was caring for her husband.

    What kind of nation have we become?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/a-grandmother-has-been-deported-with-just-ps12-in-her-pocket?utm_term=.qakEvYOgg#.pojejArOO
    A nation that pays far too much attention to buzzfeed, it would seem.

    Individual immigration issues can be sad - but the rules are there for a reason. See last nighht's thread for far more even handed detail on this case.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Apparently they have two sets of envelopes at the Oscars. What a bunch of muppets.

    Do you know what the second set is supposedly for?
    Back up apparently - as if someone's going to runoff with the originals!
    I thought they had two adjudicators who collate the votes and fill in the envelopes separately, then double check with each other that they're all correct. One guy then hands the first set of envelopes out to the presenters with the awards, while the other keeps the backups in case they're needed.

    But LOL that Hollywood managed to screw up the biggest award on their biggest night of the year!
    Wow, I hadn't realised they were half way through their acceptance speech before the error was noticed!!
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    I'm sorry, I can't get too worked up about Ms Clennell. The Leave vote was a vote to be unpleasant to foreigners and to self-justify it as something else afterwards. Ms Clennell's deportation and the reaction to it by Leavers is entirely consistent with that.

    it;s the way you tell them antifrank Carson
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    On topic - those Farron numbers are awful. Right person as party leader: Jeremy Corbyn 24%, Tim Farron 25%. He is only saved because so many people don't know who he is still. Which is damning in its own right.

    I expect a whole series of threads with observations like "The above numbers clearly show that Tim Farron is part of the problem....The solution is obvious. The LibDems need new leadership. Whether it will get it (and when) is anybody’s guess."

    That depends on quite what you think Farron's jobs as Lib Dem leader is. He is not going to be PM, and if he has any sense he knows that. Instead he has to rebuild the party. I tipped him as next Lib Dem party leader back in 2012 or so for exactly that reason.

    The local election results and the Richmond Park by-election indicate he's on a good path. His important audience is inside his party and would-be and past supporters.

    Corbyn, on the other hand, is in a position (however unlikely) to be PM. His audience should be as much of the electorate as possible. I say should be, as he's rather spectacularly failing at that.
    Nice attempt at a swerve, but the numbers are for being party leader, not Prime Minister. No-one was going to answer thinking Farron for PM. It means - best case - the voters have no confidence for him to be deputy PM in a coalition.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    Manchester Gorton voted nearly 2:1 Remain. This is a seat where the Lib Dems must be looking to make major progress.

    Any clues as to why their numbers tanked so heavily in 2015?
    It's the student area of Manchester.
    Thanks, and thanks @AlastairMeeks too.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    BTW, are we absolutely sure that the Copeland Returning Officer didn't read out the wrong envelope?
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    And the winner of the Oscars is ......

    Donald Trump


    The Academy screw up saved us from 6 hours of thespian moaning and gave the Donald a clean break

    The Russians orchestrated the cock up
  • Options

    BTW, are we absolutely sure that the Copeland Returning Officer didn't read out the wrong envelope?

    Arf - no doubt Shameless Chakrabarti will use that excuse at her next TV appearance…
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    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Apparently they have two sets of envelopes at the Oscars. What a bunch of muppets.

    Do you know what the second set is supposedly for?
    Back up apparently - as if someone's going to runoff with the originals!
    I thought they had two adjudicators who collate the votes and fill in the envelopes separately, then double check with each other that they're all correct. One guy then hands the first set of envelopes out to the presenters with the awards, while the other keeps the backups in case they're needed.

    But LOL that Hollywood managed to screw up the biggest award on their biggest night of the year!
    At least it disproves the old canard about the winners being tipped off in advance.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125

    DavidL said:

    There was a 9.2% swing from the Conservatives to Labour in Gorton in 2015. An astonishing result given the national trends. I don't think I have seen a bigger swing in favour of Labour at that election.

    Of course it was results like this that made the Labour vote so much less efficient than it had been in the Blair landslides. Piling up votes where they did least good.

    I think Corbyn exacerbates that tendency too. He does appeal to a hard core Labour supporter far more left wing that the country as a whole. Kieran's analysis shows that this is at the cost of repelling those whose support is needed to do well overall. If that is right then the current polling/electoral models probably understate the damage he would do in an election campaign.

    I'd have thought Manchester Gorton (like Brighton, Cambridge, Bristol West, and left-wing inner London) is Corbynism ground zero.

    If nothing else it should tell us about the measure of his current appeal in his heartlands.
    Hmm...won't we get a really chronic turnout after a very low key campaign where most the parties are reluctant to spend much on a foregone conclusion? Labour will then blame an apparent fall in support of the loss of a very "popular" MP.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?
    She went back to look after her dying parents and until her deportation was caring for her husband.

    What kind of nation have we become?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/a-grandmother-has-been-deported-with-just-ps12-in-her-pocket?utm_term=.qakEvYOgg#.pojejArOO
    Yeah, that doesn't agree with what is stated here, that she was out of the UK between 1992 and 2013.

    http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singaporean-fighting-deportation-from-britain

    As for which to believe... The Straits Times or Buzzfeed.. hmmm, that's a tough one.
    This looks very much like the second step in an orchestrated drip-drip campaign to bully the Home Office into not enforcing our immigration laws.
    Doubtless Miley Cyrus and Katy Perry will be emoting over the issue before long.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578
    tlg86 said:

    This is like the time Kimi Raikkonen was declared the winner of the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix, but then had to hand it over to Giancarlo Fisichella the following week because the FIA had calculated correctly who was leading at the last complete lap before the race was red flagged.

    Duckworth Lewis in F1?
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    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    RobD said:

    Manchester Gorton voted nearly 2:1 Remain. This is a seat where the Lib Dems must be looking to make major progress.

    Any clues as to why their numbers tanked so heavily in 2015?
    It's the student area of Manchester.
    I'm amazed Labour/Greens didn't get 100% of vote share then!
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    Gerald Kaufman's political career had peaked, by the time he entered Parliament.
  • Options
    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    Tanks on the lawn:

    Prime Minister Theresa May has urged voters across Scotland to use the upcoming local elections to express their opposition to Scottish independence.

    Writing exclusively for Holyrood magazine ahead of the Scottish Conservative conference, the PM frames the local elections, held on 4 May, on constitutional grounds.

    May also rejects SNP claims that Scotland’s vote to remain in the European Union has been ignored in Downing Street’s approach to Brexit negotiations, writing that “every voter had an equal say and the collective answer was final”.


    https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/exclusive-theresa-may-urges-scots-use-local-elections-reject-independence

    Clever of Mrs May. Libs doing well on the back of minority remain vote. Scot Tories can achieve the same majority of Non-Indies.
  • Options
    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?
    She went back to look after her dying parents and until her deportation was caring for her husband.

    What kind of nation have we become?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/a-grandmother-has-been-deported-with-just-ps12-in-her-pocket?utm_term=.qakEvYOgg#.pojejArOO
    A nation that pays far too much attention to buzzfeed, it would seem.

    Individual immigration issues can be sad - but the rules are there for a reason. See last nighht's thread for far more even handed detail on this case.
    I dont think the full facts have been established on this case. Googling her and finding random stories on the internet is not the same as reading the home office files.
    The basic point is that even though she has a family here, 2 generations, and is caring for her ill british husband she is still being deported and that is what most people find outrageous. But the rules are the rules.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,842
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    There was a 9.2% swing from the Conservatives to Labour in Gorton in 2015. An astonishing result given the national trends. I don't think I have seen a bigger swing in favour of Labour at that election.

    Of course it was results like this that made the Labour vote so much less efficient than it had been in the Blair landslides. Piling up votes where they did least good.

    I think Corbyn exacerbates that tendency too. He does appeal to a hard core Labour supporter far more left wing that the country as a whole. Kieran's analysis shows that this is at the cost of repelling those whose support is needed to do well overall. If that is right then the current polling/electoral models probably understate the damage he would do in an election campaign.

    I'd have thought Manchester Gorton (like Brighton, Cambridge, Bristol West, and left-wing inner London) is Corbynism ground zero.

    If nothing else it should tell us about the measure of his current appeal in his heartlands.
    Hmm...won't we get a really chronic turnout after a very low key campaign where most the parties are reluctant to spend much on a foregone conclusion? Labour will then blame an apparent fall in support of the loss of a very "popular" MP.
    And that the by-election will almost certainly be on May 4th, alongside the locals. Most people's attention will be elsewhere, so it will probably be a safe hold on a low turnout. Unless of course every Lib Dem in Manchester spends the next few weeks doing nothing except knocking doors.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,319
    fitalass said:

    Dixie said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Gerald Kaufman wasn't just the oldest current MP; he was the oldest serving MP since 1972 or 1964 (depending how old S. O. Davies was when he died in 1972 (85 as he claimed or 92 as he probably was)).

    His seat is so safe, even Jezza can't lose it. I assume Labour will be 1/100. If Labour lost it, then yes, they're screwed.

    Something tells me that Labour party activists will still be ordered to pile into this seat and money will no object within campaign limits when it comes to shoring up the core vote in this seat.
    Manchester is one of the strongest Labour membership bases outside London (it was an important factor in Oldham), especially among students (who are especially numerous in Gordon itself). It's the sort of seat where Corbyn is an asset, although I assume Kaufmann had a sizable personal vote. I suspect the main problem will be the Greens.

    On topic, one has to be careful about this sort of poll, as people sometimes respond to hypotheticals whimsically. "Would you consider voting Labour?" will have a chunk of people who politely say they'll consider anything: the fact that over a third of these (37%) don't care who the leader is shows their lack of genuine interest at this point. On the face of it the figures show a Labour potential of 51%, but in reality I expect it's more likle 40%.

    The fact that a fifth of current Labour voters would be less likely to vote Labour if Corbyn was replaced is interesting though again might or might not prove real - it depends partly on whether he stood down voluntarily (which would produce an "oh well, all the best" reaction) or was ousted (which I think would do real damage to the core vote).
  • Options
    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    I'm sorry, I can't get too worked up about Ms Clennell. The Leave vote was a vote to be unpleasant to foreigners and to self-justify it as something else afterwards. Ms Clennell's deportation and the reaction to it by Leavers is entirely consistent with that.

    The art of a strong immigration policy is to be clear and firm to the 'group', without seeing the individual faces. China, Russia and Cuba have always done it. Even to their own people who aren't allowed back in when they leave.
  • Options
    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    On topic, Corbyn clearly must go - and sooner rather than later - but Labour need to do more than just change the leader if they don't just want to reascend to the giddy heights Ed Miliband achieved.

    He clearly represents the members, and he must stay.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    It's hard to believe there was once a large Tory vote in Gorton.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    There was a 9.2% swing from the Conservatives to Labour in Gorton in 2015. An astonishing result given the national trends. I don't think I have seen a bigger swing in favour of Labour at that election.

    Of course it was results like this that made the Labour vote so much less efficient than it had been in the Blair landslides. Piling up votes where they did least good.

    I think Corbyn exacerbates that tendency too. He does appeal to a hard core Labour supporter far more left wing that the country as a whole. Kieran's analysis shows that this is at the cost of repelling those whose support is needed to do well overall. If that is right then the current polling/electoral models probably understate the damage he would do in an election campaign.

    I'd have thought Manchester Gorton (like Brighton, Cambridge, Bristol West, and left-wing inner London) is Corbynism ground zero.

    If nothing else it should tell us about the measure of his current appeal in his heartlands.
    Hmm...won't we get a really chronic turnout after a very low key campaign where most the parties are reluctant to spend much on a foregone conclusion? Labour will then blame an apparent fall in support of the loss of a very "popular" MP.
    Perfect seat for a returning prince over the water, mind.

    Whether of the Balls or Miliband variety....
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    nielh said:

    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?
    She went back to look after her dying parents and until her deportation was caring for her husband.

    What kind of nation have we become?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/a-grandmother-has-been-deported-with-just-ps12-in-her-pocket?utm_term=.qakEvYOgg#.pojejArOO
    A nation that pays far too much attention to buzzfeed, it would seem.

    Individual immigration issues can be sad - but the rules are there for a reason. See last nighht's thread for far more even handed detail on this case.
    I dont think the full facts have been established on this case. Googling her and finding random stories on the internet is not the same as reading the home office files.
    The basic point is that even though she has a family here, 2 generations, and is caring for her ill british husband she is still being deported and that is what most people find outrageous. But the rules are the rules.
    When even the Daily Mail has a supportive article you know the PB Tories are out on their own.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4190826/amp/Grandmother-married-Briton-27-years-deported.html
  • Options
    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Sandpit said:

    Very good last thread by @stodge by the way, and now sadly a by-election coming up for Labour in what should be a very safe seat

    Kaufman had his detractors. And in many spheres. Whilst I might me mis-remembering, but wasn't he at that nice man's Robert Maxwell's funeral?
  • Options
    Nice piece Keiran. On that 25% "floor", it's worth noting that 28% of that 'definite' 25% (i.e. 7% worth of polling) would be more likely to vote Labour if Corbyn was removed. Obviously this is on-the-face-of-it illogical but reading between the lines that suggests a current Corbyn "floor" closer to 18% which seems to me a better estimate.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    edited February 2017
    nielh said:

    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?
    She went back to look after her dying parents and until her deportation was caring for her husband.

    What kind of nation have we become?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/a-grandmother-has-been-deported-with-just-ps12-in-her-pocket?utm_term=.qakEvYOgg#.pojejArOO
    A nation that pays far too much attention to buzzfeed, it would seem.

    Individual immigration issues can be sad - but the rules are there for a reason. See last nighht's thread for far more even handed detail on this case.
    (Some snipping)
    But the rules are the rules.
    Quite.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,125
    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    There was a 9.2% swing from the Conservatives to Labour in Gorton in 2015. An astonishing result given the national trends. I don't think I have seen a bigger swing in favour of Labour at that election.

    Of course it was results like this that made the Labour vote so much less efficient than it had been in the Blair landslides. Piling up votes where they did least good.

    I think Corbyn exacerbates that tendency too. He does appeal to a hard core Labour supporter far more left wing that the country as a whole. Kieran's analysis shows that this is at the cost of repelling those whose support is needed to do well overall. If that is right then the current polling/electoral models probably understate the damage he would do in an election campaign.

    I'd have thought Manchester Gorton (like Brighton, Cambridge, Bristol West, and left-wing inner London) is Corbynism ground zero.

    If nothing else it should tell us about the measure of his current appeal in his heartlands.
    Hmm...won't we get a really chronic turnout after a very low key campaign where most the parties are reluctant to spend much on a foregone conclusion? Labour will then blame an apparent fall in support of the loss of a very "popular" MP.
    Perfect seat for a returning prince over the water, mind.

    Whether of the Balls or Miliband variety....
    Now that would be interesting.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    nielh said:

    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/profanityswan/status/835922751256932352

    I thought it was established she hadn't lived in Britain for 30 years?
    She went back to look after her dying parents and until her deportation was caring for her husband.

    What kind of nation have we become?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/a-grandmother-has-been-deported-with-just-ps12-in-her-pocket?utm_term=.qakEvYOgg#.pojejArOO
    A nation that pays far too much attention to buzzfeed, it would seem.

    Individual immigration issues can be sad - but the rules are there for a reason. See last nighht's thread for far more even handed detail on this case.
    I dont think the full facts have been established on this case. Googling her and finding random stories on the internet is not the same as reading the home office files.
    The basic point is that even though she has a family here, 2 generations, and is caring for her ill british husband she is still being deported and that is what most people find outrageous. But the rules are the rules.
    When even the Daily Mail has a supportive article you know the PB Tories are out on their own.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4190826/amp/Grandmother-married-Briton-27-years-deported.html
    Marginally more trustworthy than Buzzfeed, but at odds with the Strait Times articles.
This discussion has been closed.