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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Was this the reason for TMay’s election decision?

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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,159
    Jason said:

    Why does everyone seem so certain Corbyn will resign? I think you all underestimate his pig headed stupidity.

    Exactly. He will try and stay until conference season at least.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Steve Webb and Jo Swinson must be sorely tempted to have another bash at their former seats too.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    Wonder if the first polls with the work after this announcement will see an uptick for Labour - accepted wisdom is they might drop lower as people really, truly contemplate voting Labour, but fact is a lot of people like COrbyn, and plenty of others love Labour or hate the Tories so much, that they might in fact do the oppositie - realise they don't want a Tory majority even if it means voting Corbyn, and there is an uptick.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Steve Webb and Jo Swinson must be sorely tempted to have another bash at their former seats too.

    Doesn't Steve Webb now have a "proppa" job in the city?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,159

    Kate McCann‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @KateEMcCann 4 mins4 minutes ago

    Labour source tells me veteran MP Alan Johnson won't be standing in the June general election
    2 replies 14 retweets 4 likes

    That's a loss for Labour (as in Alan, not the seat).
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    kle4 said:

    Wonder if the first polls with the work after this announcement will see an uptick for Labour - accepted wisdom is they might drop lower as people really, truly contemplate voting Labour, but fact is a lot of people like COrbyn, and plenty of others love Labour or hate the Tories so much, that they might in fact do the oppositie - realise they don't want a Tory majority even if it means voting Corbyn, and there is an uptick.

    It'll be fascinating to see how much the LDs tick up over the next few weeks.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    Seriously, are people saying that a large majority is needed to make sure that Brexit is done 'right'? Surely the reverse is true in a healthy democracy. This is the very time that extra scrutiny is needed. Maybe I am just old fashioned!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    John Curtice: "I believed the Prime Minister. Maybe I was a fool to do so."

    A sentiment that is bound to grow.

    She is a lying b**ch.
    she may be a lying bitch, but the alternative is Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.
    If no-one thinks Corbyn could be PM in a month of Sundays, the question becomes, "Do you want Theresa May to be an elected dictator?" A lot of people will say no, no matter how hopeless the opposition is.
    The question doesn't become that, in the same way it didn't in 1997 when Tony Blair romped home.
    It does become that because Theresa May has herself defended the election in those terms: my power needs to be untrammelled because institutions and other parties are trying to subvert the will of the people. It's the same arguments that Erdogan used in his referendum.
    "The country has united but Westminster has not." It's the language of the dictator.
    I'm no fan of May, but do you really think that sort of hyperbole helps beyond emotional release?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    Diane Abbott says Labour welcomes the election and says "pollsters may be in for a surprise"

    Diane adds "Pollsters have failed to adjust for the Corbyn factor"
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited April 2017
    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    John Curtice: "I believed the Prime Minister. Maybe I was a fool to do so."

    A sentiment that is bound to grow.

    She is a lying b**ch.
    she may be a lying bitch, but the alternative is Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.
    If no-one thinks Corbyn could be PM in a month of Sundays, the question becomes, "Do you want Theresa May to be an elected dictator?" A lot of people will say no, no matter how hopeless the opposition is.
    The question doesn't become that, in the same way it didn't in 1997 when Tony Blair romped home.
    It does become that because Theresa May has herself defended the election in those terms: my power needs to be untrammelled because institutions and other parties are trying to subvert the will of the people. It's the same arguments that Erdogan used in his referendum.
    "The country has united but Westminster has not." It's the language of the dictator.
    I'm no fan of May, but do you really think that sort of hyperbole helps beyond emotional release?
    kle4, meet williamglenn.. :p
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Steve Webb and Jo Swinson must be sorely tempted to have another bash at their former seats too.

    Doesn't Steve Webb now have a "proppa" job in the city?
    He's Director of Policy at Royal London.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017

    Steve Webb and Jo Swinson must be sorely tempted to have another bash at their former seats too.

    Doesn't Steve Webb now have a "proppa" job in the city?
    He's Director of Policy at Royal London.
    Is that a position he will want to/ be able to give up so quickly?
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Pulpstar said:

    Diane Abbott says Labour welcomes the election and says "pollsters may be in for a surprise"

    Diane adds "Pollsters have failed to adjust for the Corbyn factor"


    You mean it's even worse? :open_mouth:

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    eekeek Posts: 24,932

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:




    Looking ahead and on the bright side.

    1. Corbyn will be a footnote by the evening of June 8th when he's certain to resign.

    2.. The election will be 100% about Brexit

    3. The Lib Dems being the only party against Brexit are likely to have their best result for decades

    4. May will be able to sack Johnson and Fox which she's very likely to do

    5. And David Miliband might be persuaded to stand and save Labour from extinction.

    Miliband is not the man. Ed "Strictly" Balls is the man.
    Any chance of getting him in before June 8th?
    Dunno, but if Labour have any sense they should find a way.

    But that would be the ultimate admission of failure by him and his supporters. Surely he has to try and fight in a GE or all his posturing is pointless?

    Any news from Ed? Surely there is a safe seat somewhere with someone who fancies a few quiet years in House of Lords?
    Safe seat for Labour with Corbyn leading the party....

    I'm seriously struggling to think of one...
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    Jason said:

    Why does everyone seem so certain Corbyn will resign? I think you all underestimate his pig headed stupidity.

    I think there's enough people around him with a sense of reality that they could get through even to him, in the event of disaster.

    I'm thinking Tories by 60-80.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited April 2017
    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    John Curtice: "I believed the Prime Minister. Maybe I was a fool to do so."

    A sentiment that is bound to grow.

    She is a lying b**ch.
    she may be a lying bitch, but the alternative is Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.
    If no-one thinks Corbyn could be PM in a month of Sundays, the question becomes, "Do you want Theresa May to be an elected dictator?" A lot of people will say no, no matter how hopeless the opposition is.
    The question doesn't become that, in the same way it didn't in 1997 when Tony Blair romped home.
    It does become that because Theresa May has herself defended the election in those terms: my power needs to be untrammelled because institutions and other parties are trying to subvert the will of the people. It's the same arguments that Erdogan used in his referendum.
    Erm...she's proposing a GE. NO new powers. No dictatorship. She could lose. She could lose her own seat. Unlikely - but she's offering a free choice. It's not exactly the Enabling Act. You seem to be confused. And it's certainly true that a pre-Brexit parliament in a post-Brexit world is a mess. We need a clearing of the air.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    kle4 said:

    Wonder if the first polls with the work after this announcement will see an uptick for Labour - accepted wisdom is they might drop lower as people really, truly contemplate voting Labour, but fact is a lot of people like COrbyn, and plenty of others love Labour or hate the Tories so much, that they might in fact do the oppositie - realise they don't want a Tory majority even if it means voting Corbyn, and there is an uptick.

    It is going to take a hell of a big tick to make much difference.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,130

    Remember Richmond Park. Some of the leafy posho bits of England that have voted Tory may switch to cuddly hummus-loving LD europhiles this time.

    Maybe, but I expect Richmond Park itself will go back to the Conservatives.
    The dislike of Corbyn will be greater than the 'desire' for the lib dems.

    How's their mansion tax policy these days?
    It's not ony that. Zac wasn't standing as a Conservative, he'd made himself unpopular because of what was seen as a silly gimmick of a by-election and also his inept mayoral campaign, and in any case by-elections are generally easier for oppostion parties (especailly the LibDems) than GEs. So the starting base of a 4.5% LibDem majority is probably not enough for them to hold the seat IMO.
    Zac was standing in a bye election so he could oppose government policy on Heathrow. I am amazed as many Tories voted for him as they did.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    Pulpstar said:

    Diane Abbott says Labour welcomes the election and says "pollsters may be in for a surprise"

    Diane adds "Pollsters have failed to adjust for the Corbyn factor"

    If she turns out to be right, I don't know that I could live with the embarrassment I would feel.
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    LennonLennon Posts: 1,729
    eek said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:




    Looking ahead and on the bright side.

    1. Corbyn will be a footnote by the evening of June 8th when he's certain to resign.

    2.. The election will be 100% about Brexit

    3. The Lib Dems being the only party against Brexit are likely to have their best result for decades

    4. May will be able to sack Johnson and Fox which she's very likely to do

    5. And David Miliband might be persuaded to stand and save Labour from extinction.

    Miliband is not the man. Ed "Strictly" Balls is the man.
    Any chance of getting him in before June 8th?
    Dunno, but if Labour have any sense they should find a way.

    But that would be the ultimate admission of failure by him and his supporters. Surely he has to try and fight in a GE or all his posturing is pointless?

    Any news from Ed? Surely there is a safe seat somewhere with someone who fancies a few quiet years in House of Lords?
    Safe seat for Labour with Corbyn leading the party....

    I'm seriously struggling to think of one...
    Islington North...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    Steve Webb and Jo Swinson must be sorely tempted to have another bash at their former seats too.

    Mike Crockhart should have a go at Edinburgh West.

    Increased his vote share from 2015, and surely rump Labour will fall for him this time.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    GIN1138 said:

    When was the last genuinely snap election? Does 1983 or 1987 qualify?

    No.

    Last real "snap" or "crisis" election was 1974 when Ted asked the nation "Who governs Britain" and the answer came back... "Not you" ! ;)
    In the spirit of PB pedantry, that was the February 74 election, so the more recent one was in October 74, called by Wilson.

    But wasn't 1979 a crisis election, as it was precipitated by a vote of No Confidence?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    John Curtice: "I believed the Prime Minister. Maybe I was a fool to do so."

    A sentiment that is bound to grow.

    She is a lying b**ch.
    she may be a lying bitch, but the alternative is Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.
    If no-one thinks Corbyn could be PM in a month of Sundays, the question becomes, "Do you want Theresa May to be an elected dictator?" A lot of people will say no, no matter how hopeless the opposition is.
    The question doesn't become that, in the same way it didn't in 1997 when Tony Blair romped home.
    It does become that because Theresa May has herself defended the election in those terms: my power needs to be untrammelled because institutions and other parties are trying to subvert the will of the people. It's the same arguments that Erdogan used in his referendum.
    "The country has united but Westminster has not." It's the language of the dictator.
    Surely the people are going to turn out in their millions to prevent Brexit, so her language won't matter.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    murali_s said:

    Seriously, are people saying that a large majority is needed to make sure that Brexit is done 'right'? Surely the reverse is true in a healthy democracy. This is the very time that extra scrutiny is needed. Maybe I am just old fashioned!

    You are quite right. It makes it easier for May, which has advantages for the country in some respects, but it is not needed.
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    RobD said:

    Y0kel said:

    DavidL said:

    Y0kel said:

    Just exactly where are all the Conservative gains going to be?

    I see the polls but I just cant see on current boundaries where they are going to pick up 20 or 30 net gains.

    There is a list of 50 here: http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/gainloss.html
    All great but that assumes a swing that is universal, which is unlikely and that the Conservatives hold on to everything they got, unlikely. I think they'd genuinely do well to get themselves to 30-35 majority. Despite the fact there is no credible opposition leader, with two Mr Weedy's in charge, there is a limit to potential, a point where votes simply will stop stacking up in the right place.

    Anything above 35 majority is a terrific result.
    Con lose 15 to LD
    Con gain 60 from Lab
    Con gain 5 from SNP

    Result: Con maj circa 100.
    Is that the Scottish Tory Surge Klaxon I hear in the distance? ;)
    Really? Berwickshire is likely, but I'd be struggling to find five gains in Scotland. Also, Mundell is on a tiny majority in Dumfries, so a possible loss there.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    In contrast to @Y0kel, I'm expecting a Conservative majority well into three figures. I keep asking myself the question who ultimately is going to go out and vote for Labour as led by Jeremy Corbyn, and only the most diligent tribalists spring to mind.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Pulpstar said:

    Diane Abbott says Labour welcomes the election and says "pollsters may be in for a surprise"

    Diane adds "Pollsters have failed to adjust for the Corbyn factor"


    You mean it's even worse? :open_mouth:

    she is delusional.. and for good measure a hypocrite
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    John Curtice: "I believed the Prime Minister. Maybe I was a fool to do so."

    A sentiment that is bound to grow.

    She is a lying b**ch.
    she may be a lying bitch, but the alternative is Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.
    If no-one thinks Corbyn could be PM in a month of Sundays, the question becomes, "Do you want Theresa May to be an elected dictator?" A lot of people will say no, no matter how hopeless the opposition is.
    I think you are dreaming there elected dictator will happen.Just as some described Harold Wilson in 1966 However his hundred majority and his popularity did not last long.When you hear a politician like May do a complete lie and say it's for the good of the country you know it's total bollox .Only weeks ago said we needed time to bring the country together.Not further referendums and snap elections.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    edited April 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    When was the last genuinely snap election? Does 1983 or 1987 qualify?

    No.

    Last real "snap" or "crisis" election was 1974 when Ted asked the nation "Who governs Britain" and the answer came back... "Not you" ! ;)
    However, Wilson's "snap" election of 1966 and the crisis election of 1931 hold better prospects for Mother Theresa than Ted's gamble.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    John Curtice: "I believed the Prime Minister. Maybe I was a fool to do so."

    A sentiment that is bound to grow.

    She is a lying b**ch.
    she may be a lying bitch, but the alternative is Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.
    If no-one thinks Corbyn could be PM in a month of Sundays, the question becomes, "Do you want Theresa May to be an elected dictator?" A lot of people will say no, no matter how hopeless the opposition is.
    The question doesn't become that, in the same way it didn't in 1997 when Tony Blair romped home.
    It does become that because Theresa May has herself defended the election in those terms: my power needs to be untrammelled because institutions and other parties are trying to subvert the will of the people. It's the same arguments that Erdogan used in his referendum.
    "The country has united but Westminster has not." It's the language of the dictator.
    No. It could, conceivably, be the language of the demagogue, but that's not the same thing. And the country will make up its own mind.
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    eek said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:




    Looking ahead and on the bright side.

    1. Corbyn will be a footnote by the evening of June 8th when he's certain to resign.

    2.. The election will be 100% about Brexit

    3. The Lib Dems being the only party against Brexit are likely to have their best result for decades

    4. May will be able to sack Johnson and Fox which she's very likely to do

    5. And David Miliband might be persuaded to stand and save Labour from extinction.

    Miliband is not the man. Ed "Strictly" Balls is the man.
    Any chance of getting him in before June 8th?
    Dunno, but if Labour have any sense they should find a way.

    But that would be the ultimate admission of failure by him and his supporters. Surely he has to try and fight in a GE or all his posturing is pointless?

    Any news from Ed? Surely there is a safe seat somewhere with someone who fancies a few quiet years in House of Lords?
    Safe seat for Labour with Corbyn leading the party....

    I'm seriously struggling to think of one...
    Sounds like Hull West is now available. Fairly local for Ed
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    Impressively rapid Wikipedia article on the 2017 General Election, including polling data table

    That's been there a while!
    Yes, it's just been moved from "Next United Kingdom general election" and updated a bit/lot.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    AndyJS said:

    If the LDs lose a seat I think it might be Southport. There was a big UKIP vote there last time which might transfer to the Tories.

    The UKIP vote collapsed in Southport last May and went to the Lib Dems who won all 7 wards in the parliamentary seat easily
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    edited April 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    When was the last genuinely snap election? Does 1983 or 1987 qualify?

    No.

    Last real "snap" or "crisis" election was 1974 when Ted asked the nation "Who governs Britain" and the answer came back... "Not you" ! ;)
    Arguably the second GE later that year was also 'snap', as Wilson sought to move from hung parliament to majority territory. He managed it - by 3 seats. Both main parties lost vote share though, to the Liberals....
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,130

    In contrast to Richmond Park, I think he'll regain his seat quite comfortably.
    Is he not 74? Surely he has better things to do.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    Impressively rapid Wikipedia article on the 2017 General Election, including polling data table

    That's been there a while!
    Yes, it's just been moved from "Next United Kingdom general election" and updated a bit/lot.
    Huh, I still see it as "next UK GE". Suspect an edit war is ongoing until it is officially proclaimed .
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,393

    Off topic: I know everyone has forgotten about it by now but any idea why the Turkish Referendum is still "in play" on Betfair?

    That legal challenge?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,692
    edited April 2017
    Patrick said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    John Curtice: "I believed the Prime Minister. Maybe I was a fool to do so."

    A sentiment that is bound to grow.

    She is a lying b**ch.
    she may be a lying bitch, but the alternative is Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.
    If no-one thinks Corbyn could be PM in a month of Sundays, the question becomes, "Do you want Theresa May to be an elected dictator?" A lot of people will say no, no matter how hopeless the opposition is.
    The question doesn't become that, in the same way it didn't in 1997 when Tony Blair romped home.
    It does become that because Theresa May has herself defended the election in those terms: my power needs to be untrammelled because institutions and other parties are trying to subvert the will of the people. It's the same arguments that Erdogan used in his referendum.
    Erm...she's proposing a GE. NO new powers. No dictatorship. She could lose. She could lose her own seat. Unlikely - but she's offering a free choice. It's not exactly the Enabling Act. You seem to be confused. And it's certainly true that a pre-Brexit parliament in a post-Brexit world is a mess. We need a clearing of the air.
    It's her rhetoric that's telling in the context of Josias' comment. I am not keen on elected dictatorships of any stripe, but Theresa May's imminent one is not the only one we have had in recent years and I wouldn't expect a politician to voluntarily limit their own powers. George Washingtons are unusual.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793

    GIN1138 said:

    When was the last genuinely snap election? Does 1983 or 1987 qualify?

    No.

    Last real "snap" or "crisis" election was 1974 when Ted asked the nation "Who governs Britain" and the answer came back... "Not you" ! ;)
    In the spirit of PB pedantry, that was the February 74 election, so the more recent one was in October 74, called by Wilson.

    But wasn't 1979 a crisis election, as it was precipitated by a vote of No Confidence?
    Yes, i suppose 79' would count as well...
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Has our resident ex MP opined yet? Will he be standing in Broxtowe?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    I see the die hard EUphiles have become completely unhinged.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    The Tories are a 45pts party again, thanks to some of the UKIP vote going back but also because May has connected to an extraordinary extent with voters, including former Labour voters. She is, according to the latest YouGov poll almost as popular with poorer voters as she is with the affluent. Authenticity, experience and style is at the root of it and she connects in the north of England.‎ She’s a reluctant Remainer now determined to get on with it. A lot of voters agree. Outside London this is electoral gold dust for the Tories.

    https://reaction.life/early-election-theresa-maybe-brilliant/
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    I wonder if the Blairite and Brownite 'big beasts' in the Labour party will down tools during the campaign?

    It can be argued it's in their interests to see Corbyn and the old-fashioned socialist left destroyed.

    If Corbyn gets mullered a Labour centrist leader - even facing a big Tory majority, and given the extraordinary backdrop of Brexit - could be well placed to possibly be PM in 2022.
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    FF43 said:

    Patrick said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    John Curtice: "I believed the Prime Minister. Maybe I was a fool to do so."

    A sentiment that is bound to grow.

    She is a lying b**ch.
    she may be a lying bitch, but the alternative is Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.
    If no-one thinks Corbyn could be PM in a month of Sundays, the question becomes, "Do you want Theresa May to be an elected dictator?" A lot of people will say no, no matter how hopeless the opposition is.
    The question doesn't become that, in the same way it didn't in 1997 when Tony Blair romped home.
    It does become that because Theresa May has herself defended the election in those terms: my power needs to be untrammelled because institutions and other parties are trying to subvert the will of the people. It's the same arguments that Erdogan used in his referendum.
    Erm...she's proposing a GE. NO new powers. No dictatorship. She could lose. She could lose her own seat. Unlikely - but she's offering a free choice. It's not exactly the Enabling Act. You seem to be confused. And it's certainly true that a pre-Brexit parliament in a post-Brexit world is a mess. We need a clearing of the air.
    It's her rhetoric that's telling in the context of Josias' comment. I am not keen on elected dictatorships of any stripe, but Theresa May's imminent one is not the only one we have had in recent years and I wouldn't expect a politician to voluntarily limit their own powers. George Washingtons are unusual.
    And precisely what powers that other PMs haven't had is May proposing for herself?
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    edited April 2017
    1979 was a 'crisis' election in that it followed a no confidence vote but it probably only took place a few months before a GE - by convention - would have been called anyway (the previous one being in October 1974).
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,918
    radsatser said:

    Carswell is f*cked, all his machinations and scheming and he is cut off at the bo**cks!

    He can't win Clacton as an Independent or Conservative without UKIP voters.

    Delicious revenge, he will now have to get a proper job in 6 weeks time..

    You are showing a vast amount of ignorance. If you knew anything about UKIP voters you would know that a large number of them are making the same journey as Carswell and even those who might stay with the party long term, are talking about voting Tory to ensure Labour and the Lib Dems don't get to derail Brexit. If Carswell stood as a Tory (a big if) he would definitely win Clacton.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    radsatser said:

    Carswell is f*cked, all his machinations and scheming and he is cut off at the bo**cks!

    He can't win Clacton as an Independent or Conservative without UKIP voters.

    Delicious revenge, he will now have to get a proper job in 6 weeks time..

    He can win as a Tory. There aren't enough UKIP voters there to outvote the Tories plus his personal vote.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017
    I see the BBC line is there is voter fatigue......Given most people won't even really processed that there is a GE / when it is, that is quite a claim.

    Also the Brexit vote had a huge turn-out.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    They'll get that with a strong government :smiley:
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,560
    I think Con Maj 70-90. Betting is a mug's game (especially with my record of calling things wrong), so I won't put any money on it, but I'd be interested to see how I feel in seven weeks when I am back from the United States.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    In contrast to Richmond Park, I think he'll regain his seat quite comfortably.
    One factor is we don't know if UKIP will stand everywhere in June. In Vince's seat they got 3,000 votes and I assume most of them would vote Tory if there wasn't a UKIP candidate.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,692
    Patrick said:

    FF43 said:

    Patrick said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    John Curtice: "I believed the Prime Minister. Maybe I was a fool to do so."

    A sentiment that is bound to grow.

    She is a lying b**ch.
    she may be a lying bitch, but the alternative is Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.
    If no-one thinks Corbyn could be PM in a month of Sundays, the question becomes, "Do you want Theresa May to be an elected dictator?" A lot of people will say no, no matter how hopeless the opposition is.
    The question doesn't become that, in the same way it didn't in 1997 when Tony Blair romped home.
    It does become that because Theresa May has herself defended the election in those terms: my power needs to be untrammelled because institutions and other parties are trying to subvert the will of the people. It's the same arguments that Erdogan used in his referendum.
    Erm...she's proposing a GE. NO new powers. No dictatorship. She could lose. She could lose her own seat. Unlikely - but she's offering a free choice. It's not exactly the Enabling Act. You seem to be confused. And it's certainly true that a pre-Brexit parliament in a post-Brexit world is a mess. We need a clearing of the air.
    It's her rhetoric that's telling in the context of Josias' comment. I am not keen on elected dictatorships of any stripe, but Theresa May's imminent one is not the only one we have had in recent years and I wouldn't expect a politician to voluntarily limit their own powers. George Washingtons are unusual.
    And precisely what powers that other PMs haven't had is May proposing for herself?
    None. You haven't read what I wrote.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Patrick said:

    FF43 said:

    Patrick said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    John Curtice: "I believed the Prime Minister. Maybe I was a fool to do so."

    A sentiment that is bound to grow.

    She is a lying b**ch.
    she may be a lying bitch, but the alternative is Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.
    If no-one thinks Corbyn could be PM in a month of Sundays, the question becomes, "Do you want Theresa May to be an elected dictator?" A lot of people will say no, no matter how hopeless the opposition is.
    The question doesn't become that, in the same way it didn't in 1997 when Tony Blair romped home.
    It does become that because Theresa May has herself defended the election in those terms: my power needs to be untrammelled because institutions and other parties are trying to subvert the will of the people. It's the same arguments that Erdogan used in his referendum.
    Erm...she's proposing a GE. NO new powers. No dictatorship. She could lose. She could lose her own seat. Unlikely - but she's offering a free choice. It's not exactly the Enabling Act. You seem to be confused. And it's certainly true that a pre-Brexit parliament in a post-Brexit world is a mess. We need a clearing of the air.
    It's her rhetoric that's telling in the context of Josias' comment. I am not keen on elected dictatorships of any stripe, but Theresa May's imminent one is not the only one we have had in recent years and I wouldn't expect a politician to voluntarily limit their own powers. George Washingtons are unusual.
    And precisely what powers that other PMs haven't had is May proposing for herself?
    They've all gone mad. It's amazing that even the likes of Meeks, SO and TSE are saying this is a good decision but the most persistent doom mongers have gone completely insane. This election secures Brexit, and most probably a much softer Brexit than would have happened before today now that the PM won't be beholden to the Tory right.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419


    Con gain 5 from SNP

    Oooooof. Surely not?!
    I don't see why not. Con consistently polling around mid-20s in Scotland. Could see the Borders go blue and longer shots in Edinburgh and the NE.

    On the other hand, Lab could end with zero seats in Scotland for the first time since 1900.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,159
    A family member has put forward the theory that May has miscalculated and will lose because the whole thing will be Brexit vote mark II and remainers will vote accordingly in huge numbers.

    Well, it's a theory.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    MaxPB said:

    I see the die hard EUphiles have become completely unhinged.

    Become? ;)
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    A family member has put forward the theory that May has miscalculated and will lose because the whole thing will be Brexit vote mark II and remainers will vote accordingly in huge numbers.

    Well, it's a theory.

    For which party?
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    Will we be seeing the return of @IOS to keep us updated on the Ground War/Game/Running-around-in-circles?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    AndyJS said:

    In contrast to Richmond Park, I think he'll regain his seat quite comfortably.
    One factor is we don't know if UKIP will stand everywhere in June. In Vince's seat they got 3,000 votes and I assume most of them would vote Tory if there wasn't a UKIP candidate.
    They might not turn up at all. UKIP engaged a lot of first time voters and long time non-voters.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    Fenster said:

    I wonder if the Blairite and Brownite 'big beasts' in the Labour party will down tools during the campaign?

    It can be argued it's in their interests to see Corbyn and the old-fashioned socialist left destroyed.

    If Corbyn gets mullered a Labour centrist leader - even facing a big Tory majority, and given the extraordinary backdrop of Brexit - could be well placed to possibly be PM in 2022.

    What happened under Foot in 1983 was that the moderates mostly stayed loyal or quiet, but as the campaign went on and Labour's poll rating continued to flatline, a number of them cracked under media pressure and started to speak out during the campaign. Which of course made things worse.

    Will be interesting to see if history repeats. Thirty years on the media pressure is more relentless and invisibility much more difficult.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,159

    Has our resident ex MP opined yet? Will he be standing in Broxtowe?

    Nothing on Broxtowe Labour website
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017

    Will we be seeing the return of @IOS to keep us updated on the Ground War/Game/Running-around-in-circles?

    After been ditched by the battle bus in Nuneaton, he must look like this by now....

    image
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Kate McCann‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @KateEMcCann 4 mins4 minutes ago

    Labour source tells me veteran MP Alan Johnson won't be standing in the June general election

    Shame, I wonder if the postie has done enough to be shuffled over to the red seats?
    Yes. Most ex-cabinet ministers will be offered a peerage. The only exceptions tend to be those who've disgraced themselves and those with only fleeting service. Neither objection is valid in Johnson's case.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,159
    MaxPB said:

    A family member has put forward the theory that May has miscalculated and will lose because the whole thing will be Brexit vote mark II and remainers will vote accordingly in huge numbers.

    Well, it's a theory.

    For which party?
    SW - Liberals
    London - Libs and Labour

    UKIP will revive and stop Remain Tories winning in some SE seats.
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    JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    Some on here seem confident LDs will win back seats from tories in the SW

    St Ives needs ~2.5% swing, Torbay 3.4%, Yeovil 4.7%, all the other Cornwall, Devon and Somerset seats are >5% and all will have lost incumbency "bonus".

    Can't see it unless every last Remainer votes LD. Surely a lot of ex-kippers will go blue to cancel this out.

    SW London looks more fertile I would have thought.

    Con maj 80-90 I reckon
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    kle4 said:
    I wonder, how long would the campaign period for indyref2 be?
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    In contrast to @Y0kel, I'm expecting a Conservative majority well into three figures. I keep asking myself the question who ultimately is going to go out and vote for Labour as led by Jeremy Corbyn, and only the most diligent tribalists spring to mind.

    Agreed 150 Conservative majority looks nailed on.Many Labour voters will not turn out .Just as many Conservative voters did not in 2001.
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    Vince Cable to stand - be interesting if the conservatives in Broxtowe let Anna Soubry stand as a conservative, also Nicky Morgan in Loughborough
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Steve Webb and Jo Swinson must be sorely tempted to have another bash at their former seats too.

    I was mocked on here for saying Jo Swinson had a good chance of surviving the LD Apocalypse and while I was wrong a loss by only 2000 votes was pretty good going.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    SeanT said:

    I do like the British tradition of short, sharp and sometimes totally unexpected General Election campaigns.

    But a 7 week campaign is hardly a short campaign - indeed it is more than twice the length of both 1974 elections.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    DavidL said:

    In contrast to Richmond Park, I think he'll regain his seat quite comfortably.
    Is he not 74? Surely he has better things to do.
    Pah, he's got 10 years left, just ask Skinner.

    If Clarke stands down and Skinner doesn't win, who's father of the house?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    Hodges claims Danczuk says he will stand 'whatever', even if still suspended,
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    A family member has put forward the theory that May has miscalculated and will lose because the whole thing will be Brexit vote mark II and remainers will vote accordingly in huge numbers.

    Well, it's a theory.

    For which party?
    SW - Liberals
    London - Libs and Labour

    UKIP will revive and stop Remain Tories winning in some SE seats.
    That's pro-Brexit Labour, we're talking about, yes?

    And UKIP to do better than last time?

    Seems a little bit fanciful. I think the Remainers need to get used to the idea of Brexit sooner rather than later. Before today there was a 1% chance it would get blown off course, today it's 0.0001%.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    Alistair said:

    Steve Webb and Jo Swinson must be sorely tempted to have another bash at their former seats too.

    I was mocked on here for saying Jo Swinson had a good chance of surviving the LD Apocalypse and while I was wrong a loss by only 2000 votes was pretty good going.
    Lowest drop in the LD vote in the country, I believe.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,625
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:
    I wonder, how long would the campaign period for indyref2 be?
    I'd be happy with 60 years.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    Steve Webb and Jo Swinson must be sorely tempted to have another bash at their former seats too.

    I was mocked on here for saying Jo Swinson had a good chance of surviving the LD Apocalypse and while I was wrong a loss by only 2000 votes was pretty good going.
    Lowest drop in the LD vote in the country, I believe.
    Got some serious tactical voting going on in her favour.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,020
    SeanT said:

    The Guardian's reaction seems to be BUT IT'S SO UNFAIR, WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE LABOUR MPs??!!

    Heh.

    Polly could have had a good export business going with her patented clothes-pegs. A lot of French voters will need some for the second round, and Labour canvassers could hand them out here.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    surbiton said:

    DavidL said:

    Y0kel said:

    Just exactly where are all the Conservative gains going to be?

    I see the polls but I just cant see on current boundaries where they are going to pick up 20 or 30 net gains.

    There is a list of 50 here: http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/gainloss.html
    That would be dire for the Lib Dems: no net gains.

    I can really see Cambridge going back to the Lib Dems; then again, I got that one wrong in 2015 as well ... ;)
    They will win quite a few in SW England and SW London. Possibly also Rochdale, Hampstead etc.
    You really think that the Cyril Smith personal vote will return home?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    Corbyn's emailed me asking for funds.

    15:01, Lib Dem email arrived at 13:00, 2 hours earlier.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017
    SeanT said:

    The Guardian's reaction seems to be BUT IT'S SO UNFAIR, WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE LABOUR MPs??!!

    Heh.

    You have to feel for the Guardianistas.....7 years of hurt....every major election bar Khan getting elected going against them, from GE, to Boris, to AV, to Brexit, to Corbyn...
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222

    Some on here seem confident LDs will win back seats from tories in the SW

    St Ives needs ~2.5% swing, Torbay 3.4%, Yeovil 4.7%, all the other Cornwall, Devon and Somerset seats are >5% and all will have lost incumbency "bonus".

    Can't see it unless every last Remainer votes LD. Surely a lot of ex-kippers will go blue to cancel this out.

    SW London looks more fertile I would have thought.

    Con maj 80-90 I reckon

    Better figurework would start from 2010 results. The 2015 election was as atypical as coalition government that preceded it.
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546
    edited April 2017
    Alistair said:

    Steve Webb and Jo Swinson must be sorely tempted to have another bash at their former seats too.

    I was mocked on here for saying Jo Swinson had a good chance of surviving the LD Apocalypse and while I was wrong a loss by only 2000 votes was pretty good going.
    If Jo Swinson got back in, she would be red hot favourite for next leader. Steve Webb has said he wouldn't stand again and a new candidate has been selected for his South Gloucs seat.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Yorkcity said:

    In contrast to @Y0kel, I'm expecting a Conservative majority well into three figures. I keep asking myself the question who ultimately is going to go out and vote for Labour as led by Jeremy Corbyn, and only the most diligent tribalists spring to mind.

    Agreed 150 Conservative majority looks nailed on.Many Labour voters will not turn out .Just as many Conservative voters did not in 2001.
    The constituency betting this time should be fascinating. I have a few seats that I am going to be looking at with great interest.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    Labour's Leader attacks PM for early GE.

    https://twitter.com/northumbriana/status/854323092289712130

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    It's been a full generation since the last general election
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,130


    Con gain 5 from SNP

    Oooooof. Surely not?!
    I don't see why not. Con consistently polling around mid-20s in Scotland. Could see the Borders go blue and longer shots in Edinburgh and the NE.

    On the other hand, Lab could end with zero seats in Scotland for the first time since 1900.
    Dumfries & Galloway, Berwickshire, West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, possibly a seat in Edinburgh...starts to get tricky after that and none of these are sure things.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    tpfkar said:

    Alistair said:

    Steve Webb and Jo Swinson must be sorely tempted to have another bash at their former seats too.

    I was mocked on here for saying Jo Swinson had a good chance of surviving the LD Apocalypse and while I was wrong a loss by only 2000 votes was pretty good going.
    If Jo Swinson got back in, she would be red hot favourite for next leader.
    Jon Nicholson seems like one of the better and more affable SNP MPs though, so I think he'd have some incumbency advantage. Michelle Thomson may well be more vulnerable given her various screw ups post election, and Edinburgh is surely fertile ground for the yellow peril.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Yorkcity said:

    In contrast to @Y0kel, I'm expecting a Conservative majority well into three figures. I keep asking myself the question who ultimately is going to go out and vote for Labour as led by Jeremy Corbyn, and only the most diligent tribalists spring to mind.

    Agreed 150 Conservative majority looks nailed on.Many Labour voters will not turn out .Just as many Conservative voters did not in 2001.
    The constituency betting this time should be fascinating. I have a few seats that I am going to be looking at with great interest.
    I think we can forget about UNS....
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    dr_spyn said:

    Labour's Leader attacks PM for early GE.

    https://twitter.com/northumbriana/status/854323092289712130

    Henderson has nailed it 100%!
This discussion has been closed.