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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Survation phone poll has CON lead down 10 points in a week to

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited May 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Survation phone poll has CON lead down 10 points in a week to 9% now

Since TMay launched her CON manifesto last Thursday we have had just three published polls where all or part of the fieldwork took place afterwards – the Sunday Times YouGov, the Mail on Sunday Survation online poll and now, this morning, a Survation phone poll for Good Morning Britain.

Read the full story here


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    asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    edited May 2017
    I suspect we're seeing the high tide for Labour
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    I suspect we're seeing the high tide for Labour

    Or not.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    I suspect we're seeing the high tide for Labour

    Or not.
    Is there a third option? :D
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,674

    I suspect we're seeing the high tide for Labour

    I see Bedwetters for Osborne were out in force last night. I do love the smell of hysteria in the morning.....

    I doubt this morning's front pages are causing undue distress in Downing St.....

    From Survation - while Lab leads on the NHS & education, in some other areas they're well behind:

    Which party has better policies for...

    ...managing the economy:

    Con: 48
    Lab: 19

    ....making you better off personally:

    Con: 35
    Lab: 26

    ....best vision for Britain:

    Con: 39
    Lab: 26

    .....securing the best Brexit deal:

    Con: 50
    Lab: 13

    And finally, if you had to choose, of the following leaders who would you rather go on a dinner date with?

    May: 31
    Corbyn: 19
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    asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276

    I suspect we're seeing the high tide for Labour

    Or not.
    Indeed.

    Is this a fresh panel or d they survey the same voters again?

    It'd be interesting to see if we're seeing direct Con > Lab switchers or Don't Know > Labour
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,674
    Meanwhile, in a diversion from the hysteria, I'm reading A Very English Scandal by John Preston about Jeremy Thorpe et al - goodness! We don't do scandals like we used to! I blame Thatcher.....
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Well, only a few hours until we get an ICM....
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    RobD said:

    Well, only a few hours until we get an ICM....

    Gold status pending what the numbers are. :smiley:
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Meanwhile, in a diversion from the hysteria, I'm reading A Very English Scandal by John Preston about Jeremy Thorpe et al - goodness! We don't do scandals like we used to! I blame Thatcher.....

    I'm reading that as well. Great book and well written.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Well, only a few hours until we get an ICM....

    Gold status pending what the numbers are. :smiley:
    ICM online is untested at a general election.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,674
    Scottish Leaders' debate:

    The spin room segment is coming to an end, and it is worth noting that even a cursory glance through Twitter shows that SNP apparatchiks and politicians are ramping up the anti-BBC rhetoric, a decent sign they don't think the debate went their way tonight.

    There's already a burgeoning conspiracy theory about our star of the show, the struggling nurse, who according to some online was featured in a previous Question Time show in Edinburgh.

    The SNP seem decidedly unhappy about the nature of the debate and its apparent focus on devolved issues.


    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/general-election/live-blog-scottish-leaders-tv-debate-1-4452534
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,674

    Meanwhile, in a diversion from the hysteria, I'm reading A Very English Scandal by John Preston about Jeremy Thorpe et al - goodness! We don't do scandals like we used to! I blame Thatcher.....

    I'm reading that as well. Great book and well written.
    I hadn't realised how involved Thorpe had been with Scott (was at University during the trial and the non-bowdlerised versions of Scott's testimony - which didn't make the press - were the talk of the Union) - the Peter Cook summing up was masterful! But also clearly Scott was a very troubled individual, and mercifully today the sexuality at the root of the drama would be (largely) a non-issue....well worth a read!
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    Meanwhile, in a diversion from the hysteria, I'm reading A Very English Scandal by John Preston about Jeremy Thorpe et al - goodness! We don't do scandals like we used to! I blame Thatcher.....

    I'm reading that as well. Great book and well written.
    I hadn't realised how involved Thorpe had been with Scott (was at University during the trial and the non-bowdlerised versions of Scott's testimony - which didn't make the press - were the talk of the Union) - the Peter Cook summing up was masterful! But also clearly Scott was a very troubled individual, and mercifully today the sexuality at the root of the drama would be (largely) a non-issue....well worth a read!
    Matthew Parris said " I don't know how Thorpe refrained from murdering him. I would have done."
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Well, only a few hours until we get an ICM....

    Gold status pending what the numbers are. :smiley:
    ICM online is untested at a general election.
    Thanks, I'll use that if the numbers aren't great. :p
  • Options
    DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    Not ALL Northern Irish responses would have been for other parties, the majority of them yes, but the Conservatives do also get some votes there and so do UKIP (although UKIP is not standing there this year)
    There is also now a Northern Ireland Labour Party branch but Labour's HQ won't let them stand in elections.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Good Morning.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Meanwhile, in a diversion from the hysteria, I'm reading A Very English Scandal by John Preston about Jeremy Thorpe et al - goodness! We don't do scandals like we used to! I blame Thatcher.....

    Morning, Carlotta. I remember that well. It was the establishment vs the Plebs with some good juicy gossip. Someone effectively got away with attempted murder. Establishment did look after itself. No names.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    edited May 2017
    Survation 15th May/GMB was Con 48, Lab 30, so making it Lab +4, NOT Lab +5
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Survation 15th May/GMB was Con 48, Lab 30, so making it Lab +4, NOT Lab +5

    So, basically margin of error...? :D:p
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    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    surbiton said:

    Meanwhile, in a diversion from the hysteria, I'm reading A Very English Scandal by John Preston about Jeremy Thorpe et al - goodness! We don't do scandals like we used to! I blame Thatcher.....

    Morning, Carlotta. I remember that well. It was the establishment vs the Plebs with some good juicy gossip. Someone effectively got away with attempted murder. Establishment did look after itself. No names.
    The Cornish liberals think they had problems in 2015 and now...its nothing compared to those heady days.....
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    RobD said:

    Survation 15th May/GMB was Con 48, Lab 30, so making it Lab +4, NOT Lab +5

    So, basically margin of error...? :D:p
    When SBT comes [ squeaky bum time ] every 0.1% becomes interesting let alone 1%.

    Baxterisation with Scotland 43/29/19

    Con 346, Lab 228, LD 6, SNP 49 , PC 3, NI 18.

    Another 1% swing to Labour, both Con and Lab will add 5 seats to GE2015 seats.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    It will be interesting to see North of England and London numbers. I think in London, the swing is now to Labour. Last few subsets [ warning ! ] I saw, the Labour vote in the North was coming back.
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    As I said be4:

    "The Tories will no doubt win.
    But many of us would never conceive of voting Tory. Not ever.
    A sensible alternative would be to vote Green or LibDem, and some no doubt will.
    But our politics is essentially polarised.
    So Labour may not do as badly as might be necessary to shed its dingleberry."
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Survation/phone poll for GMB:

    Of GE2015 voters. Con 86.7%, Lab 83.6%.

    Another one: apparently over 88% of 55+ age voters certain to vote. Really ?
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited May 2017
    True. The cybernats were awful. But I have a question.

    Why does a nurse need to go to a food bank ? I understand Scottish nurses gets paid more than nurses in England. So is that an SNP problem or are there specific matters concerning the person herself ?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    surbiton said:

    True. The cybernats were awful. But I have a question.

    Why does a nurse need to go to a food bank ? I understand Scottish nurses gets paid more than nurses in England. So is that an SNP problem or are there specific matters concerning the person herself ?
    I think if a PB Tory was to question why someone needed to go to a food bank they would be hounded mercilessly! :o
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Herding.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    surbiton said:

    Survation/phone poll for GMB:

    Of GE2015 voters. Con 86.7%, Lab 83.6%.

    Another one: apparently over 88% of 55+ age voters certain to vote. Really ?

    For comparison, turnout amongst 65+ in 2015 was estimated to be 78%

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2015
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Survation poll. In fact, the last few polls. Subsets [ warning ! ]

    The regional subsets are settling down to their expected norms. It will be interesting what a proper Welsh poll coming out today with fieldwork after the Con manifesto launch has to reveal.

    Survation puts Wales: Con 31, Lab 50. London: Con 39, Lab 46. North: Con 38, Lab 47.

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,674
    surbiton said:

    True. The cybernats were awful. But I have a question.

    Why does a nurse need to go to a food bank ? I understand Scottish nurses gets paid more than nurses in England. So is that an SNP problem or are there specific matters concerning the person herself ?
    The SNP can't have it both ways - going on & on about 'evil Torea food banks' then personally attacking a Scottish nurse when she challenges the First Minister on them.....the SNP's days of blaming everything on Westminster are in the past.....
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    surbiton said:

    Survation poll. In fact, the last few polls. Subsets [ warning ! ]

    The regional subsets are settling down to their expected norms. It will be interesting what a proper Welsh poll coming out today with fieldwork after the Con manifesto launch has to reveal.

    Survation puts Wales: Con 31, Lab 50. London: Con 39, Lab 46. North: Con 38, Lab 47.

    To give you a sense of how useful the subsamples are, Survation's poll on 5-6 May had Con 37, Lab 40. YouGov's full Wales poll had Con 41 Lab 35.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited May 2017

    surbiton said:

    True. The cybernats were awful. But I have a question.

    Why does a nurse need to go to a food bank ? I understand Scottish nurses gets paid more than nurses in England. So is that an SNP problem or are there specific matters concerning the person herself ?
    The SNP can't have it both ways - going on & on about 'evil Torea food banks' then personally attacking a Scottish nurse when she challenges the First Minister on them.....the SNP's days of blaming everything on Westminster are in the past.....
    I noticed you avoided answering the question. My point there maybe personal matters involved, maybe not.

    General question: Are Nurses all over the UK going to food banks ? Even 5% of them.

    That would be awful. I know our nurses are not well paid. But going to Food Banks ?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    Well, they are moving together. I'd rather hope it was due to an actual change in opinion rather than herding. If it is herding, who are they following?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited May 2017
    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    Survation poll. In fact, the last few polls. Subsets [ warning ! ]

    The regional subsets are settling down to their expected norms. It will be interesting what a proper Welsh poll coming out today with fieldwork after the Con manifesto launch has to reveal.

    Survation puts Wales: Con 31, Lab 50. London: Con 39, Lab 46. North: Con 38, Lab 47.

    To give you a sense of how useful the subsamples are, Survation's poll on 5-6 May had Con 37, Lab 40. YouGov's full Wales poll had Con 41 Lab 35.
    Note the word "warning" within brackets.
    But regardless, if the gap is 9% and the GE2015 gap was 7%, this is to be expected. Due to the Tories doubling their votes in Scotland, Labour are now probably doing as well as GE2015 in England.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    Survation poll. In fact, the last few polls. Subsets [ warning ! ]

    The regional subsets are settling down to their expected norms. It will be interesting what a proper Welsh poll coming out today with fieldwork after the Con manifesto launch has to reveal.

    Survation puts Wales: Con 31, Lab 50. London: Con 39, Lab 46. North: Con 38, Lab 47.

    To give you a sense of how useful the subsamples are, Survation's poll on 5-6 May had Con 37, Lab 40. YouGov's full Wales poll had Con 41 Lab 35.
    Note the word "warning" within brackets.
    Yes, but thought it would be informative to you/others the previous comparison. Not too bad, and probably well within the MoE of a small subsample (~50 people).
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,674
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    True. The cybernats were awful. But I have a question.

    Why does a nurse need to go to a food bank ? I understand Scottish nurses gets paid more than nurses in England. So is that an SNP problem or are there specific matters concerning the person herself ?
    The SNP can't have it both ways - going on & on about 'evil Torea food banks' then personally attacking a Scottish nurse when she challenges the First Minister on them.....the SNP's days of blaming everything on Westminster are in the past.....
    I noticed, you avoided answering the question. My point there maybe personal matters involved, maybe not.
    I am not a cybernat - I won't pillory a questioner or seek to traduce their motives when they ask the First Minister a question. I'm sure you're above that too.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Good Morning Sane PBers Worldwide .....

    All two of us .... :smile:

    Now who's on this mornings Conservative bedwetters shift today?
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    Possibly.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited May 2017
    JackW said:

    Good Morning Sane PBers Worldwide .....

    All two of us .... :smile:

    Now who's on this mornings Conservative bedwetters shift today?

    Con bedwetters?

    Sell their house to pay nurse to change the sheets. That will sort them...
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    PendduPenddu Posts: 265
    surbiton said:

    Survation poll. In fact, the last few polls. Subsets [ warning ! ]

    The regional subsets are settling down to their expected norms. It will be interesting what a proper Welsh poll coming out today with fieldwork after the Con manifesto launch has to reveal.

    Survation puts Wales: Con 31, Lab 50. London: Con 39, Lab 46. North: Con 38, Lab 47.

    That looks more realistic than last Welsh Poll - Roger Scully has already twittered Gosh and Blimey about new poll findings suggesting a big movement from last poll....I was already expecting an unwinding of earlier support as people have looked more closely at Nanny Teresa and firming up of Labour support as Carwyn & Welsh Labour are distancing themselves from Comrade Corbyn.

    So I would guess Cons 30-35 and Lab 40-45 - I also expect UKIP & LDs have cratered which just leaves a big question mark over Plaid.....?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    The Corbyn firewall will see the Tories home comfortably. But the next few years are going to be a car crash for them.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    The Corbyn firewall will see the Tories home comfortably. But the next few years are going to be a car crash for them.

    And Corbyn will still be there....
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    This election campaign has confirmed one thing: the UK's Brexit future is in the hands of cretins.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    The Corbyn firewall will see the Tories home comfortably. But the next few years are going to be a car crash for them.

    http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2017/05/20/new-poll-analysis-watson-skinner-and-flint-facing-defeat-cooper-miliband-reeves-and-rayner-on-the-edge/

    Labour Uncut got the result of the last election pretty close. I would like to see more on their methodology and sources but there is no reason to think they are making this analysis up.

    This may of course be subject to change if the polls really are altering, but it is worth pointing out even the best polls for Labour have them nine points behind ambling along in the low thirties.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited May 2017
    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    We don't know. None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding.

    In any event, the headline VI numbers showing a gap of "only" 9% are still contradicting the secondary questions and other evidence. They are probably wrong.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    Survation 15th May/GMB was Con 48, Lab 30, so making it Lab +4, NOT Lab +5

    So, basically margin of error...? :D:p
    When SBT comes [ squeaky bum time ] every 0.1% becomes interesting let alone 1%.

    Baxterisation with Scotland 43/29/19

    Con 346, Lab 228, LD 6, SNP 49 , PC 3, NI 18.

    Another 1% swing to Labour, both Con and Lab will add 5 seats to GE2015 seats.
    WithSNP fading, Cons faltering and Jezza surging, could SLab be the main Unionist benificary in Scotland?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    The Corbyn firewall will see the Tories home comfortably. But the next few years are going to be a car crash for them.

    Every single party, major or minor, would appear to be heading for a post-election reckoning one way or another. I don't think it is going to be boring.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    This election campaign has confirmed one thing: the UK's Brexit future is in the hands of cretins.

    We already knew that. But unfortunately there's no way of getting rid of Juncker.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    Survation 15th May/GMB was Con 48, Lab 30, so making it Lab +4, NOT Lab +5

    So, basically margin of error...? :D:p
    When SBT comes [ squeaky bum time ] every 0.1% becomes interesting let alone 1%.

    Baxterisation with Scotland 43/29/19

    Con 346, Lab 228, LD 6, SNP 49 , PC 3, NI 18.

    Another 1% swing to Labour, both Con and Lab will add 5 seats to GE2015 seats.
    WithSNP fading, Cons faltering and Jezza surging, could SLab be the main Unionist benificary in Scotland?
    QTWTAIN
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    ydoethur said:

    This election campaign has confirmed one thing: the UK's Brexit future is in the hands of cretins.

    We already knew that. But unfortunately there's no way of getting rid of Juncker.
    Juncker is not the fool that some on PB would have. He is an astute consensus builder. Imagine what he could do sober.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    ydoethur said:

    This election campaign has confirmed one thing: the UK's Brexit future is in the hands of cretins.

    We already knew that. But unfortunately there's no way of getting rid of Juncker.
    Juncker is not the fool that some on PB would have. He is an astute consensus builder. Imagine what he could do sober.
    But he might only be an astute consensus builder while he's drunk.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,674
    As well as asking neighbours to go through her bins to see where she shops.....

    https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/866405314756849665
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    ydoethur said:

    This election campaign has confirmed one thing: the UK's Brexit future is in the hands of cretins.

    We already knew that. But unfortunately there's no way of getting rid of Juncker.
    Juncker is not the fool that some on PB would have. He is an astute consensus builder. Imagine what he could do sober.
    A consensus builder who is going to become the first EC boss to lose a member state?

    I would love to imagine what he could do sober but he hasn't been for years so there seems little point.
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    daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    If recent poll results replicate on 8/6/17, fewer than 20 seats may change hands and Labour would end up on >225 seats. Corbyn would be secure, but the LDs might be all but wiped out.

    In my opinion, it would have been an unnecessary GE.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    This election campaign has confirmed one thing: the UK's Brexit future is in the hands of cretins.

    We already knew that. But unfortunately there's no way of getting rid of Juncker.
    Juncker is not the fool that some on PB would have. He is an astute consensus builder. Imagine what he could do sober.
    A consensus builder who is going to become the first EC boss to lose a member state?

    I would love to imagine what he could do sober but he hasn't been for years so there seems little point.
    Why are we talking about Brexit ? Is it to distract ourselves from the General Election ?
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    edited May 2017

    The Corbyn firewall will see the Tories home comfortably. But the next few years are going to be a car crash for them.

    Catching up on the media tonight (10,30pm PCT), having spent a fantastic day at Whistler with my wife, eldest son and his wife, it does seem tbe care policy is still causing problems but all the newspaper editorials favour the policy, so maybe the worst is over but we will have to see.

    However, here in Canada all I am reading is about Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbotts IRA links and this is coming from all the media including the broadcast and not CCHQ. It does look very bad and I think this could become the next story.

    I understand TM is in Wales today and is going to go big time on Brexit, with only 11 days after the election to the start of negotiations and she is due to announce her rejection of the 100 billion EU ransom demand. She will no doubt bring in immigration and taking back our laws.

    Acting hard on the EU will firm up her UKIP support.

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    Survation 15th May/GMB was Con 48, Lab 30, so making it Lab +4, NOT Lab +5

    So, basically margin of error...? :D:p
    When SBT comes [ squeaky bum time ] every 0.1% becomes interesting let alone 1%.

    Baxterisation with Scotland 43/29/19

    Con 346, Lab 228, LD 6, SNP 49 , PC 3, NI 18.

    Another 1% swing to Labour, both Con and Lab will add 5 seats to GE2015 seats.
    WithSNP fading, Cons faltering and Jezza surging, could SLab be the main Unionist benificary in Scotland?
    QTWTAIN
    There seems to be little value left in the betting on SCon or SLD gains, but SLab has some interesting possibilities.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    ydoethur said:

    This election campaign has confirmed one thing: the UK's Brexit future is in the hands of cretins.

    We already knew that. But unfortunately there's no way of getting rid of Juncker.

    Juncker's not on the EU negotiating team. Unfortunately for us, May and Davis are on the UK one.

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    Survation 15th May/GMB was Con 48, Lab 30, so making it Lab +4, NOT Lab +5

    So, basically margin of error...? :D:p
    When SBT comes [ squeaky bum time ] every 0.1% becomes interesting let alone 1%.

    Baxterisation with Scotland 43/29/19

    Con 346, Lab 228, LD 6, SNP 49 , PC 3, NI 18.

    Another 1% swing to Labour, both Con and Lab will add 5 seats to GE2015 seats.
    WithSNP fading, Cons faltering and Jezza surging, could SLab be the main Unionist benificary in Scotland?
    QTWTAIN
    You have not been giving us the results of your spreadsheet in the last 2 or 3 days.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    The Corbyn firewall will see the Tories home comfortably. But the next few years are going to be a car crash for them.

    Catching up on the media tonight (10,30pm PCT), having spent a fantastic day at Whistler with my wife, eldest son and his wife, it does seem tbe care policy is still causing problems but all the newspaper editorials favour the policy, so maybe the worst is over but we will have to see.

    However, here in Canada all I am reading is about Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbotts IRA links and this is coming from all the media including the broadcast and not CCHQ. It does look very bad and I think this could become the next story.

    I understand TM is in Wales today and is going to go big time on Brexit, with only 11 days to the start of negotiations and she is due to announce her rejection of the 100 billion EU ransom demand. She will no doubt bring in immigration and taking back our laws.

    Acting hard on the EU will firm up her UKIP support.

    UKIP and the LibDems have already proved that people have had enough of hearing about the EU already. May will need to be careful.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    tlg86 said:

    The Corbyn firewall will see the Tories home comfortably. But the next few years are going to be a car crash for them.

    And Corbyn will still be there....

    I am not sure the Tories would be wise to count on that.

  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Good Morning Sane PBers Worldwide .....

    All two of us .... :smile:

    Now who's on this mornings Conservative bedwetters shift today?

    Con bedwetters?

    Sell their house to pay nurse to change the sheets. That will sort them...
    It can't be long before @SeanT predicts :

    Jezza GAIN Maidenhead
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    This election campaign has confirmed one thing: the UK's Brexit future is in the hands of cretins.

    And person/persons with extremely doubtful judgement.
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    DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    True. The cybernats were awful. But I have a question.

    Why does a nurse need to go to a food bank ? I understand Scottish nurses gets paid more than nurses in England. So is that an SNP problem or are there specific matters concerning the person herself ?
    The SNP can't have it both ways - going on & on about 'evil Torea food banks' then personally attacking a Scottish nurse when she challenges the First Minister on them.....the SNP's days of blaming everything on Westminster are in the past.....
    I noticed you avoided answering the question. My point there maybe personal matters involved, maybe not.

    General question: Are Nurses all over the UK going to food banks ? Even 5% of them.

    That would be awful. I know our nurses are not well paid. But going to Food Banks ?
    To be served at a food bank, don't you have to show that you are claiming Social Security benefits?

    A single person can't claim income support if they earn more than around £15,000 and the starting salary for a nurse in Scotland, the very minimum is £16,132 (RCN)

    After a years service and more qualifications their salary would start to increase.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    DeClare said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    True. The cybernats were awful. But I have a question.

    Why does a nurse need to go to a food bank ? I understand Scottish nurses gets paid more than nurses in England. So is that an SNP problem or are there specific matters concerning the person herself ?
    The SNP can't have it both ways - going on & on about 'evil Torea food banks' then personally attacking a Scottish nurse when she challenges the First Minister on them.....the SNP's days of blaming everything on Westminster are in the past.....
    I noticed you avoided answering the question. My point there maybe personal matters involved, maybe not.

    General question: Are Nurses all over the UK going to food banks ? Even 5% of them.

    That would be awful. I know our nurses are not well paid. But going to Food Banks ?
    To be served at a food bank, don't you have to show that you are claiming Social Security benefits?

    A single person can't claim income support if they earn more than around £15,000 and the starting salary for a nurse in Scotland, the very minimum is £16,132 (RCN)

    After a years service and more qualifications their salary would start to increase.
    Could be part time?
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    IanB2 said:

    The Corbyn firewall will see the Tories home comfortably. But the next few years are going to be a car crash for them.

    Catching up on the media tonight (10,30pm PCT), having spent a fantastic day at Whistler with my wife, eldest son and his wife, it does seem tbe care policy is still causing problems but all the newspaper editorials favour the policy, so maybe the worst is over but we will have to see.

    However, here in Canada all I am reading is about Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbotts IRA links and this is coming from all the media including the broadcast and not CCHQ. It does look very bad and I think this could become the next story.

    I understand TM is in Wales today and is going to go big time on Brexit, with only 11 days to the start of negotiations and she is due to announce her rejection of the 100 billion EU ransom demand. She will no doubt bring in immigration and taking back our laws.

    Acting hard on the EU will firm up her UKIP support.

    UKIP and the LibDems have already proved that people have had enough of hearing about the EU already. May will need to be careful.
    Why - it is the biggest issue facing the Country and 68% now want to get on with it
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    daodao said:

    If recent poll results replicate on 8/6/17, fewer than 20 seats may change hands and Labour would end up on >225 seats. Corbyn would be secure, but the LDs might be all but wiped out.

    In my opinion, it would have been an unnecessary GE.

    The alt Right Tory wing will be stronger.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    surbiton said:

    daodao said:

    If recent poll results replicate on 8/6/17, fewer than 20 seats may change hands and Labour would end up on >225 seats. Corbyn would be secure, but the LDs might be all but wiped out.

    In my opinion, it would have been an unnecessary GE.

    The alt Right Tory wing will be stronger.
    lol. Which candidates standing are alt right?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    We don't know. None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding.

    In any event, the headline VI numbers showing a gap of "only" 9% are still contradicting the secondary questions and other evidence. They are probably wrong.
    Your wording is interesting. In your mind, regardless of the polls, you have the Tories miles ahead. This is from someone who allegedly voted Lib Dem last time.

    "None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding."

    So even then it cannot be true. It must be herding.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    daodao said:

    If recent poll results replicate on 8/6/17, fewer than 20 seats may change hands and Labour would end up on >225 seats. Corbyn would be secure, but the LDs might be all but wiped out.

    In my opinion, it would have been an unnecessary GE.

    The alt Right Tory wing will be stronger.
    lol. Which candidates standing are alt right?
    About a third of them. Many head-bangers are already there. Why do you think May is going for a general election ? She already had a clear majority.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    surbiton said:

    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    We don't know. None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding.

    In any event, the headline VI numbers showing a gap of "only" 9% are still contradicting the secondary questions and other evidence. They are probably wrong.
    Your wording is interesting. In your mind, regardless of the polls, you have the Tories miles ahead. This is from someone who allegedly voted Lib Dem last time.

    "None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding."

    So even then it cannot be true. It must be herding.
    The polls are closing but that is inconsitent with May's popularity and huge lead on the economy.

    Something does not seem right - it cannot be all down to the care policy
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    daodao said:

    If recent poll results replicate on 8/6/17, fewer than 20 seats may change hands and Labour would end up on >225 seats. Corbyn would be secure, but the LDs might be all but wiped out.

    In my opinion, it would have been an unnecessary GE.

    The alt Right Tory wing will be stronger.
    lol. Which candidates standing are alt right?
    About a third of them. Many head-bangers are already there. Why do you think May is going for a general election ? She already had a clear majority.
    Ah, nothing like sweeping generalisations. I think it'd be hard to describe many MPs as alt right.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    surbiton said:

    daodao said:

    If recent poll results replicate on 8/6/17, fewer than 20 seats may change hands and Labour would end up on >225 seats. Corbyn would be secure, but the LDs might be all but wiped out.

    In my opinion, it would have been an unnecessary GE.

    The alt Right Tory wing will be stronger.
    Though because all existing Lab MPs got to keep tbeir seats, there will have been no reselections, and it seems the moderates got most of their candidates selected for vacancies. So it seems they are safe for 5 years, at which point Jezza will be gone.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    IanB2 said:

    The Corbyn firewall will see the Tories home comfortably. But the next few years are going to be a car crash for them.

    Catching up on the media tonight (10,30pm PCT), having spent a fantastic day at Whistler with my wife, eldest son and his wife, it does seem tbe care policy is still causing problems but all the newspaper editorials favour the policy, so maybe the worst is over but we will have to see.

    However, here in Canada all I am reading is about Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbotts IRA links and this is coming from all the media including the broadcast and not CCHQ. It does look very bad and I think this could become the next story.

    I understand TM is in Wales today and is going to go big time on Brexit, with only 11 days to the start of negotiations and she is due to announce her rejection of the 100 billion EU ransom demand. She will no doubt bring in immigration and taking back our laws.

    Acting hard on the EU will firm up her UKIP support.

    UKIP and the LibDems have already proved that people have had enough of hearing about the EU already. May will need to be careful.
    Why - it is the biggest issue facing the Country and 68% now want to get on with it
    Getting it over with would be the more apposite phrase. Brexit was always a minority obsession, pro or anti.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    Survation 15th May/GMB was Con 48, Lab 30, so making it Lab +4, NOT Lab +5

    So, basically margin of error...? :D:p
    When SBT comes [ squeaky bum time ] every 0.1% becomes interesting let alone 1%.

    Baxterisation with Scotland 43/29/19

    Con 346, Lab 228, LD 6, SNP 49 , PC 3, NI 18.

    Another 1% swing to Labour, both Con and Lab will add 5 seats to GE2015 seats.
    WithSNP fading, Cons faltering and Jezza surging, could SLab be the main Unionist benificary in Scotland?
    QTWTAIN
    You have not been giving us the results of your spreadsheet in the last 2 or 3 days.
    If you are talking about the Ukip to Con swing calculator, then that's barely relevant to the question asked. Ukip are almost irrelevant in Scotland.

    Elsewhere, the effect of a large net gain of Ukip voters holds, so I have nothing new to report.

    And I still don't believe the gap between the parties is as close as is, all of a sudden, being indicated. Certainly if it's that easy to turn the heads of the public with a manifesto that basically promises a free pony for every reader then the template is established for next time.

    Simply pledge to print £200 trillion and give it away. Job done.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited May 2017

    surbiton said:

    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    We don't know. None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding.

    In any event, the headline VI numbers showing a gap of "only" 9% are still contradicting the secondary questions and other evidence. They are probably wrong.
    Your wording is interesting. In your mind, regardless of the polls, you have the Tories miles ahead. This is from someone who allegedly voted Lib Dem last time.

    "None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding."

    So even then it cannot be true. It must be herding.
    The polls are closing but that is inconsitent with May's popularity and huge lead on the economy.

    Something does not seem right - it cannot be all down to the care policy
    Who said it was ? Look at the subsets of the last 3/ 4 polls. The people of the North, London, Wales are gradually moving back to their usual splits. And it started well before. The freefall started after field dates 11-15 May. Well before the Tory launch debacle.

    Today's expected Wales only poll will be interesting. Last one exactly 2 weeks ago had: Con 41, Lab 35.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    tlg86 said:

    The Corbyn firewall will see the Tories home comfortably. But the next few years are going to be a car crash for them.

    And Corbyn will still be there....

    I am not sure the Tories would be wise to count on that.

    Here is the case that will be put for how and why Corbyn did better than any Blairite would have:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/22/jeremy-corbyn-labour-anti-austerity-manifesto
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    surbiton said:

    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    We don't know. None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding.

    In any event, the headline VI numbers showing a gap of "only" 9% are still contradicting the secondary questions and other evidence. They are probably wrong.
    Your wording is interesting. In your mind, regardless of the polls, you have the Tories miles ahead. This is from someone who allegedly voted Lib Dem last time.

    "None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding."

    So even then it cannot be true. It must be herding.
    The polls are closing but that is inconsitent with May's popularity and huge lead on the economy.

    Something does not seem right - it cannot be all down to the care policy
    I am hearing more and more anti May opinions. A mile wide and an inch deep.

    Perhaps avoiding debates was not such a masterstroke. Votors do not like being taken for granted.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Corbyn firewall will see the Tories home comfortably. But the next few years are going to be a car crash for them.

    Catching up on the media tonight (10,30pm PCT), having spent a fantastic day at Whistler with my wife, eldest son and his wife, it does seem tbe care policy is still causing problems but all the newspaper editorials favour the policy, so maybe the worst is over but we will have to see.

    However, here in Canada all I am reading is about Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbotts IRA links and this is coming from all the media including the broadcast and not CCHQ. It does look very bad and I think this could become the next story.

    I understand TM is in Wales today and is going to go big time on Brexit, with only 11 days to the start of negotiations and she is due to announce her rejection of the 100 billion EU ransom demand. She will no doubt bring in immigration and taking back our laws.

    Acting hard on the EU will firm up her UKIP support.

    UKIP and the LibDems have already proved that people have had enough of hearing about the EU already. May will need to be careful.
    Why - it is the biggest issue facing the Country and 68% now want to get on with it
    Getting it over with would be the more apposite phrase. Brexit was always a minority obsession, pro or anti.
    I think Tim Farron and Gina Miller would not agree with you but the Lib Dems position was always going to be a problem. This is and will be the Brexit election
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    ydoethur said:

    This election campaign has confirmed one thing: the UK's Brexit future is in the hands of cretins.

    We already knew that. But unfortunately there's no way of getting rid of Juncker.

    Juncker's not on the EU negotiating team. Unfortunately for us, May and Davis are on the UK one.

    He shouldn't be, but he is. That's why he was causing trouble with Merkel recently after that dinner that went wrong (or at least, after probably rather a lot of wine he is fairly sure went wrong).
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    surbiton said:

    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    We don't know. None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding.

    In any event, the headline VI numbers showing a gap of "only" 9% are still contradicting the secondary questions and other evidence. They are probably wrong.
    Your wording is interesting. In your mind, regardless of the polls, you have the Tories miles ahead. This is from someone who allegedly voted Lib Dem last time.

    "None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding."

    So even then it cannot be true. It must be herding.
    Fundamentally, these polls invite me to choose from two options:

    1. They are wrong, like they were last time
    2. A much greater proportion of the electorate than I previously thought are infantilised idiots, i.e. I haven't a bloody clue what's going on in this country anymore

    Under those circumstances, which way would you jump?
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,718
    DeClare said:

    Not ALL Northern Irish responses would have been for other parties, the majority of them yes, but the Conservatives do also get some votes there and so do UKIP (although UKIP is not standing there this year)
    There is also now a Northern Ireland Labour Party branch but Labour's HQ won't let them stand in elections.

    Is Alliance counted for the Lib Dems or 'Others'?
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    edited May 2017

    surbiton said:

    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    We don't know. None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding.

    In any event, the headline VI numbers showing a gap of "only" 9% are still contradicting the secondary questions and other evidence. They are probably wrong.
    Your wording is interesting. In your mind, regardless of the polls, you have the Tories miles ahead. This is from someone who allegedly voted Lib Dem last time.

    "None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding."

    So even then it cannot be true. It must be herding.
    The polls are closing but that is inconsitent with May's popularity and huge lead on the economy.

    Something does not seem right - it cannot be all down to the care policy
    I am hearing more and more anti May opinions. A mile wide and an inch deep.

    Perhaps avoiding debates was not such a masterstroke. Votors do not like being taken for granted.
    Not surprising from those in the NHS. As far as debates are concerned she has two high profile question time debates in the next ten days for everyone to judge her on

    So has Corbyn and that it be very interesting to see if he can keep his temper
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    DeClare said:

    Not ALL Northern Irish responses would have been for other parties, the majority of them yes, but the Conservatives do also get some votes there and so do UKIP (although UKIP is not standing there this year)
    There is also now a Northern Ireland Labour Party branch but Labour's HQ won't let them stand in elections.

    Is Alliance counted for the Lib Dems or 'Others'?
    Others. But don't most pollsters not bother including NI people in the sample, anyway? There doesn't seem much point, politically or statistically.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    edited May 2017

    surbiton said:

    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    We don't know. None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding.

    In any event, the headline VI numbers showing a gap of "only" 9% are still contradicting the secondary questions and other evidence. They are probably wrong.
    Your wording is interesting. In your mind, regardless of the polls, you have the Tories miles ahead. This is from someone who allegedly voted Lib Dem last time.

    "None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding."

    So even then it cannot be true. It must be herding.
    Fundamentally, these polls invite me to choose from two options:

    1. They are wrong, like they were last time
    2. A much greater proportion of the electorate than I previously thought are infantilised idiots, i.e. I haven't a bloody clue what's going on in this country anymore

    Under those circumstances, which way would you jump?
    You are missing the point that, for the majority of the population for whom abstaining is not an acceptable solution, it's a forced choice. Even if you think that everything on offer is idiotic.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003

    surbiton said:

    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    We don't know. None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding.

    In any event, the headline VI numbers showing a gap of "only" 9% are still contradicting the secondary questions and other evidence. They are probably wrong.
    Your wording is interesting. In your mind, regardless of the polls, you have the Tories miles ahead. This is from someone who allegedly voted Lib Dem last time.

    "None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding."

    So even then it cannot be true. It must be herding.
    Fundamentally, these polls invite me to choose from two options:

    1. They are wrong, like they were last time
    2. A much greater proportion of the electorate than I previously thought are infantilised idiots, i.e. I haven't a bloody clue what's going on in this country anymore

    Under those circumstances, which way would you jump?
    3. A large number of people feel left behind over the last thirty years. They believe the political consensus has done them little good. Instead of going for more of the same, why not try something different?

    Now, I think that view's dead wrong. But I cannot really blame some people for feeling it, and wouldn't call them 'infantilised idiots'.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Another thing to look forward to this week is the IFS' assessment of the two manifestos, 10am Tuesday.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    This election campaign has confirmed one thing: the UK's Brexit future is in the hands of cretins.

    We already knew that. But unfortunately there's no way of getting rid of Juncker.

    Juncker's not on the EU negotiating team. Unfortunately for us, May and Davis are on the UK one.

    He shouldn't be, but he is. That's why he was causing trouble with Merkel recently after that dinner that went wrong (or at least, after probably rather a lot of wine he is fairly sure went wrong).

    Barnier is in charge of the EU negotiating team. The Commission will play a very minor role. May and Davis lead for the UK, with Boris supporting. Here in Barcelona, where I am attending a conference, amused bemusement at the hole the UK is digging for itself is the overriding emotion.

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    surbiton said:

    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    We don't know. None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding.

    In any event, the headline VI numbers showing a gap of "only" 9% are still contradicting the secondary questions and other evidence. They are probably wrong.
    Your wording is interesting. In your mind, regardless of the polls, you have the Tories miles ahead. This is from someone who allegedly voted Lib Dem last time.

    "None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding."

    So even then it cannot be true. It must be herding.
    The polls are closing but that is inconsitent with May's popularity and huge lead on the economy.

    Something does not seem right - it cannot be all down to the care policy
    I am hearing more and more anti May opinions. A mile wide and an inch deep.

    Perhaps avoiding debates was not such a masterstroke. Votors do not like being taken for granted.
    Not surprising from those in the NHS. As far as debates are concerned she has two high profile question time debates in the next ten days for everyone to judge her on

    So has Corbyn and that it be very interesting to see if he can keep his temper
    Jezza is much better at working an audience than Theresa. He has shown no sign of being rattled, indeed he seems to be enjoying himself.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited May 2017
    RobD said:

    Another thing to look forward to this week is the IFS' assessment of the two manifestos, 10am Tuesday.

    It would be interesting to find out the cost to the economy of much lower levels of net immigration.

    http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2016/11/23/brexit-immigration-cut-will-cost-uk-billions-every-year
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    This election campaign has confirmed one thing: the UK's Brexit future is in the hands of cretins.

    We already knew that. But unfortunately there's no way of getting rid of Juncker.

    Juncker's not on the EU negotiating team. Unfortunately for us, May and Davis are on the UK one.

    He shouldn't be, but he is. That's why he was causing trouble with Merkel recently after that dinner that went wrong (or at least, after probably rather a lot of wine he is fairly sure went wrong).

    Barnier is in charge of the EU negotiating team. The Commission will play a very minor role. May and Davis lead for the UK, with Boris supporting. Here in Barcelona, where I am attending a conference, amused bemusement at the hole the UK is digging for itself is the overriding emotion.

    Well we are not filling their 100 billion hole -- can you imagine any UK leader agreeing to it.

    And TM is due to say so today
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The Corbyn firewall will see the Tories home comfortably. But the next few years are going to be a car crash for them.

    And Corbyn will still be there....

    I am not sure the Tories would be wise to count on that.

    Here is the case that will be put for how and why Corbyn did better than any Blairite would have:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/22/jeremy-corbyn-labour-anti-austerity-manifesto

    Note the final sentence. That's not how the unions see things.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    edited May 2017
    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    Another thing to look forward to this week is the IFS' assessment of the two manifestos, 10am Tuesday.

    It would be interesting to find out the cost to the economy of much lower levels of net immigration.
    Given it's not actually a commitment I don't think we have much to worry about :p
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    With regard to polls, it is worth remembering that in 1983 the polls narrowed at the mid point of the election and Labour thought they might still win. In 2005, the Guardian spent almost every day (or it felt like it!) shrieking that the polls couldn't be trusted and in fact Howard was neck and neck with Blair when it mattered. In 1979 one poll even put Labour ahead.

    I think one lesson we do need to learn from 2015 (and should have learned after 1992 and 1970) is that polls are noise. It's ever so exciting when they seem to tell us what we want to hear, but they are vague guidelines only. The key message we can take from them right now is that Labour are a long way behind on every key measure including voting intention. A lot of their supporters also seem to be habitual non-voters which may well be artificially inflating their figure.

    What we do know is that Corbyn, as a rather dim and unpleasant member of the metropolitan elite, is fundamentally toxic in large swathes of the country, and while Theresa May not be loved, she is generally respected (except of course by Labour fanatics who are fuming at the shellacking she is about to give them). That's why there seems a real risk she will hammer them to pieces in a perfect storm election (and is of course whatever her public pronouncements the reason she is holding one).

    The resulting panic at the possible scale of Labour's defeat is I think a large part of the reason why they've suddenly turned as a group into such utterly loathsome bullies (and I have a very particular reason for being angry about this which I unfortunately can't share in public because it may end up as a professional misconduct charge for the person in question). The more they protest they can still win and snarl at others, the more it proves their terror. For those Labour posters like SO and Rochdale Pioneers who are still behaving like fine human beings - you have my sympathy.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    Another thing to look forward to this week is the IFS' assessment of the two manifestos, 10am Tuesday.

    It would be interesting to find out the cost to the economy of much lower levels of net immigration.
    Given it's not actually a commitment I don't think we have much to worry about :p
    So tens of thousands is not a commitment but it is in the manifesto. Interesting !
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    surbiton said:

    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    We don't know. None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding.

    In any event, the headline VI numbers showing a gap of "only" 9% are still contradicting the secondary questions and other evidence. They are probably wrong.
    Your wording is interesting. In your mind, regardless of the polls, you have the Tories miles ahead. This is from someone who allegedly voted Lib Dem last time.

    "None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding."

    So even then it cannot be true. It must be herding.
    The polls are closing but that is inconsitent with May's popularity and huge lead on the economy.

    Something does not seem right - it cannot be all down to the care policy
    I am hearing more and more anti May opinions. A mile wide and an inch deep.

    Perhaps avoiding debates was not such a masterstroke. Votors do not like being taken for granted.
    Not surprising from those in the NHS. As far as debates are concerned she has two high profile question time debates in the next ten days for everyone to judge her on

    So has Corbyn and that it be very interesting to see if he can keep his temper
    Jezza is much better at working an audience than Theresa. He has shown no sign of being rattled, indeed he seems to be enjoying himself.
    Not necessarily a convincing sign. The irony is that after all the shrieking from Labour earlier in the campaign, it's May that's visiting the places where she can be ambushed while Corbyn is being kept cocooned in situations where everyone agrees with him so he feels good and thinks his message is working.

    What effect that wil have if Labour are slaughtered and he had genuinely thought he might win, a la Hilary, I don't know and don't like to think of.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    edited May 2017

    surbiton said:

    tlg86 said:

    Herding.

    We don't know. None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding.

    In any event, the headline VI numbers showing a gap of "only" 9% are still contradicting the secondary questions and other evidence. They are probably wrong.
    Your wording is interesting. In your mind, regardless of the polls, you have the Tories miles ahead. This is from someone who allegedly voted Lib Dem last time.

    "None of the three pollsters that have put Labour consistently sub-30% has reported recently. If they start coming out magically with 34-35% then we may have to contemplate the prospect of herding."

    So even then it cannot be true. It must be herding.
    The polls are closing but that is inconsitent with May's popularity and huge lead on the economy.

    Something does not seem right - it cannot be all down to the care policy
    I am hearing more and more anti May opinions. A mile wide and an inch deep.

    Perhaps avoiding debates was not such a masterstroke. Votors do not like being taken for granted.
    Not surprising from those in the NHS. As far as debates are concerned she has two high profile question time debates in the next ten days for everyone to judge her on

    So has Corbyn and that it be very interesting to see if he can keep his temper
    Jezza is much better at working an audience than Theresa. He has shown no sign of being rattled, indeed he seems to be enjoying himself.
    I have seen him rattled and he only works audiences who agree with him.

    Constant questions on the IRA, his Marxist beliefs, his anti UK attitude and sending subs out with no weapons, in front of a mainly unfriendly TV audience will see him spark - he will not be able to help himself
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    This election campaign has confirmed one thing: the UK's Brexit future is in the hands of cretins.

    We already knew that. But unfortunately there's no way of getting rid of Juncker.

    Juncker's not on the EU negotiating team. Unfortunately for us, May and Davis are on the UK one.

    He shouldn't be, but he is. That's why he was causing trouble with Merkel recently after that dinner that went wrong (or at least, after probably rather a lot of wine he is fairly sure went wrong).

    Barnier is in charge of the EU negotiating team. The Commission will play a very minor role. May and Davis lead for the UK, with Boris supporting. Here in Barcelona, where I am attending a conference, amused bemusement at the hole the UK is digging for itself is the overriding emotion.

    Well we are not filling their 100 billion hole -- can you imagine any UK leader agreeing to it.

    And TM is due to say so today
    Everything points to 50
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