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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A prolonged suspension of the campaign at this critical stage

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited May 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A prolonged suspension of the campaign at this critical stage is bad for democracy

We are just two weeks and two days from the General Election and next week, with the Spring bank holiday, sees large numbers, particularly parents of school age children, going away.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    edited May 2017
    First!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    I agree.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Two days does seem a sufficient pause. Campaigning would be light when things resume anyway.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Where the F did my comment go.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    And to top things off today. Sir Roger Moore has died
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Can’t stand the chap, but Crick does have a point – hopefully campaigning will resume ASAP.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    And to top things off today. Sir Roger Moore has died

    Bugger. RIP.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    Sir Roger Moore has died.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited May 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Where the F did my comment go.

    Here, there's an issue with Vanilla/Wordpress with the creation of multiple threads at the start.

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1579114/#Comment_1579114
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited May 2017
    Scrutiny certainly is required.

    For ALL the politicians. Labour in particular has had a ridiculously easy ride so far, I expect when the whistle blows to restart the campaign that'll end sharpish.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Yep. Keep Calm & Carry on. I'm sure the LotO attitude to terrorists and terrorism warrants scrutiny (much as some would prefer not to)....Meanwhile we need to have a chat with the cousins about their leaking to the US media.....

    Roger Moore has popped his clogs...cancer.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Two days is adequate. Crick is correct in this.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Fpt Well I'm back from having a loop recorder fitted this morning. Unsurprisingly the talk at the NNUH was all about last night's events. Just from reading this site and conversations there, the anger is palpable. It's not a sullen acceptance of the tragedy of evil it's a genuine anger that is going I think to now boil over. The country, the west, is at the point of no return and collectively saying enough. It's probably an unstoppable rage.
    Electorally it will of course have an effect. A dramatic one. Obviously some hold or have held positions that the majority will not be able to stomach. It is their right to hold those views, and our right to vote against them should we see fit.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited May 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Where the F did my comment go.

    https://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/4957/politicalbetting-com

    There's a strange bug that creates multiple Vanilla articles.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Oh ffs...I thought grim had been too quiet...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Pulpstar said:

    Scrutiny certainly is required.

    For ALL the politicians. Labour in particular has had a ridiculously easy ride so far, I expect when the whistle blows to restart the campaign that'll end sharpish.

    IFS were due to publish their costings this morning.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    On the question of politics I suspect that even if this atrocity doesn't sway any votes the narrative will be that it has done.

    Logic being that the polls released recently showing a Labour surge showed it coming from non-voters. Also the Tory wobble was coming to an end as the u-turn had happened. If as was predicted by many here before the attack Labour closing the gap was a polling error ... or as has normally happened there was a pro-Labour polling error again anyway ... then there will be a change between the polls last weekend and the final results. Even if not a vote is different due to last night.

    But last night's atrocity will be a peg on which to blame any errors, to say it caused a swing. It will also be a peg for the left to blame any eventual defeat on (like many blame Britain winning the Falklands war still for the Tories winning 83).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    Sensible to leave the Thursday and Friday Neil interviews as they are, and shunt Nuttall and whoever into next week. Just so long as we can all enjoy half an hour with Leanne via BBC Wales iPlayer...
  • TypoTypo Posts: 195
    It's barely been 12 hours since the attack, so anybody suggesting that the as yet very brief pause in the campaign is detrimental to our democracy needs to gain some perspective.

    The campaign will resume before too long, but reserve and contemplation is called for in the immediate aftermath. Many nations would go much further and enter into a formal period of national mourning at a time such as this.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    felix said:

    Two days is adequate. Crick is correct in this.

    I'd have said, one. Two is the maximum.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,545
    I agree with the header - enough time to express grief and support and mourn the victims, not a minute on behalf of the person / people who did this and their cause. Our democracy doesn't belong to them. The greatest tribute to those who've been killed and injured would be to put all the focus on honouring them, and to ignore completely the perpetrator.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    edited May 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Where the F did my comment go.

    2.16 beats 2.17, but nice try.... ;)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    SeanT said:

    I'd maybe restart tomorrow. We're already arguing the betting implications.

    It's a fucking horrible tragedy - and I think it will affect us quite a lot, because of all the images and videos, and the youth of the victims - but we carry on, after a proper day or two of mourning.

    Trouble is tomorrow the papers will be full of this story, given it happened after they went to press last night.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Yeah, I think campaigning and some semblance of normality needs to start as soon as possible. We need to show that tragiedies like these will not affect our way of life.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2017
    Mirror wrote a rather shall we say awkward article a few hours ago...Basically saying roger Moore said he couldn't do any campaigning for the Tories during this GE and the mirror put it down to him drawing the line at supporting dictator may.
  • ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 488

    Just from reading this site and conversations there, the anger is palpable. It's not a sullen acceptance of the tragedy of evil it's a genuine anger that is going I think to now boil over. The country, the west, is at the point of no return and collectively saying enough.

    I was surprised to see something this stark from Spiked:

    After the terror, the platitudes. And the hashtags. And the candlelit vigils. And they always have the same message: ‘Be unified. Feel love. Don’t give in to hate.’ The banalities roll off the national tongue. Vapidity abounds. A shallow fetishisation of ‘togetherness’ takes the place of any articulation of what we should be together for – and against...

    It is becoming clear that the top-down promotion of a hollow ‘togetherness’ in response to terrorism is about cultivating passivity. It is about suppressing strong public feeling. It’s about reducing us to a line of mourners whose only job is to weep for our fellow citizens, not ask why they died, or rage against their dying...

    They want us passive, empathetic, upset, not angry, active, questioning. They prefer us as a lonely crowd of dutiful, disconnected mourners rather than a real collective of citizens demanding to know why our fellow citizens died and how we might prevent others from dying. We should stop playing the role they’ve allotted us...

    If the massacre of children and their parents on a fun night out doesn’t make you feel rage, nothing will. The terrorist has defeated you. You are dead already.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:

    SeanT said:

    I'd maybe restart tomorrow. We're already arguing the betting implications.

    It's a fucking horrible tragedy - and I think it will affect us quite a lot, because of all the images and videos, and the youth of the victims - but we carry on, after a proper day or two of mourning.

    Trouble is tomorrow the papers will be full of this story, given it happened after they went to press last night.
    Even if it had been before they went to press they'd have had initial trauma pics yesterday, pics of the named victims published by the families today. There's lots of sharing of that picture of the 8 year old and the 15 year old who'd had a pic with Ariana going around and I'd be amazed if that or one like that is not on the front page of at least one paper.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    It's students....That who it is....He has offered them the biggest sweetie of all.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    Mirror wrote a rather shall we say awkward article a few hours ago...Basically saying roger Moore said he couldn't do any campaigning for the Tories during this GE and the mirror put it down to him drawing the line at supporting dictator may.

    Sir Roger Moore has shared the screen with a lot of megalomaniac characters, but even he draws the line at Theresa May.

    The Heckler can reveal the PM – noticeably short of cool celebrity fans – left the James Bond star unstirred when she first had aides approach him.


    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/james-bond-legend-roger-moore-10478459
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Re the polling

    Interesting observation from one of the TNS polling team

    twitter.com/joelwilliams74/status/866984051898535936
    twitter.com/joelwilliams74/status/866984855082553344

    It's students....That who it is....He has offered them the biggest sweetie of all.
    A £10bn middle-class bung. How very progressive.
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Typo said:

    The campaign will resume before too long, but reserve and contemplation is called for in the immediate aftermath. Many nations would go much further and enter into a formal period of national mourning at a time such as this.

    "My dear Norfolk, this isn't Spain. This is England!"
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959

    Oh ffs...I thought grim had been too quiet...

    He was plenty busy last night....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    SeanT said:

    RobD said:

    SeanT said:

    I'd maybe restart tomorrow. We're already arguing the betting implications.

    It's a fucking horrible tragedy - and I think it will affect us quite a lot, because of all the images and videos, and the youth of the victims - but we carry on, after a proper day or two of mourning.

    Trouble is tomorrow the papers will be full of this story, given it happened after they went to press last night.
    The papers are gonna be full of this for weeks. People are still missing. Horrifying stories and videos and pictures will emerge. Some of the injured will probably die.

    It's only just begun, it's not going to stop by Thursday. So, we have to crack on with our election, even as we rage and grieve.
    Yeah, that's a fair point. Tomorrow just feels too soon.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Mirror wrote a rather shall we say awkward article a few hours ago...Basically saying roger Moore said he couldn't do any campaigning for the Tories during this GE and the mirror put it down to him drawing the line at supporting dictator may.

    Yuk, what a sick rag of a paper – and now, £28million poorer after its own hacking scandal.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/james-bond-legend-roger-moore-10478459
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    RobD said:

    Re the polling

    Interesting observation from one of the TNS polling team

    twitter.com/joelwilliams74/status/866984051898535936
    twitter.com/joelwilliams74/status/866984855082553344

    It's students....That who it is....He has offered them the biggest sweetie of all.
    A £10bn middle-class bung. How very progressive.
    Well, they can't leave all the middle class bungs to the SNP.......
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Moore or Connery as best bond?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Mirror wrote a rather shall we say awkward article a few hours ago...Basically saying roger Moore said he couldn't do any campaigning for the Tories during this GE and the mirror put it down to him drawing the line at supporting dictator may.

    Sir Roger Moore has shared the screen with a lot of megalomaniac characters, but even he draws the line at Theresa May.

    The Heckler can reveal the PM – noticeably short of cool celebrity fans – left the James Bond star unstirred when she first had aides approach him.


    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/james-bond-legend-roger-moore-10478459
    scum article by scum paper
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    edited May 2017
    SeanT said:

    I'd maybe restart tomorrow. We're already arguing the betting implications.

    It's a fucking horrible tragedy, and a barbaric crime - and I think it will affect us quite a lot, because of all the images and videos, and the youth of the victims - but we carry on, after a proper day or two of mourning.

    How long will the Evening Standard give it before trolling of the Conservatives recommences? Corbyn needs a hand more than ever
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969

    Moore or Connery as best bond?

    Daniel Craig.

    For this scene alone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE1evIbc3mw
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Cheers for posting that TSE. :o
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    But in Moore vs Connery, has to be Moore, this is what Bond is all about


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaEU_A405zA&t=36s
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819

    Moore or Connery as best bond?

    Brosnan of course.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    Yeah, that's a fair point. Tomorrow just feels too soon.

    How long did Jezza wait after Brighton?

    That seems like the maximum...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Moore or Connery as best bond?

    Brosnan of course.
    Given TSE taste in music I am surprised he didn't say that!
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Really? Heart in the right place no doubt, but they didn't stop people shopping in the Arndale Centre only because they chose not to bomb the Arndale Centre (and I bet people bloody stopped shopping when they thought they had).
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Rhubarb said:

    Andrew Neil interviews suspended.

    Is Corbyn getting out of it?
    I expect that they'll be rescheduled for later in the campaign. Or they might just bump Nuttall out if campaigning's back on tomorrow (which'd feel a bit early, to my mind). UKIP clearly now below the other four in significance.
    No chance. The BBC would not need that kind of controversy. Nuttall will get his turn, and so he should.
    They could put him on BBC3?
    "UKIP clearly now below the other four in significance."?? On the polling, you mean? I don't think the Beeb should react to short-term stimuli like that, esp. with pollsters being on probation from the last GE. Bumping him out after last night would be the biggest political present anyone could give him; nothing would reinvigorate his troops like a plausible claim that the establishment had conspired to prevent him telling it like it is about Manchester.
    Partly, yes, it is polling but also:

    - Not contesting even close to every seat: on a par with Greens.
    - Truly dismal local election results, which give credence to the polls.
    - Zero MPs and little prospect of winning any MPs.

    To be treated like a big party, I'd suggest that you need either significant national support, which at the very least means an average of 5% across the whole country, given that that's deposit-losing level, but more probably something like 10%; or the likelihood of returning a parliamentary party which would have a significant presence in the House i.e. at least 10, perhaps 20.

    We could argue the detail of both current criteria and relevance of historic record but there has to be a cut-off somewhere and to my mind, UKIP now fall below that level. Why, for example, is UKIP there but the Greens not?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Moore or Connery as best bond?

    Brosnan of course.
    Given TSE taste in music I am surprised he didn't say that!

    I'm surprised he didn't go for Dalton...

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969

    Moore or Connery as best bond?

    Brosnan of course.
    Given TSE taste in music I am surprised he didn't say that!
    I felt sorry for Brosnan, not his fault he was given scripts that were camper than a row of pink tents.

    I've always thought Timothy Dalton was very unlucky.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Somewhere in the house is his German Dictionary from school...
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    This article is 100% correct. It's a nonsense to say terrorism will never win and then suspend public life for days and days.

    One or two maximum. Then back to normal.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    edited May 2017

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Rhubarb said:

    Andrew Neil interviews suspended.

    Is Corbyn getting out of it?
    I expect that they'll be rescheduled for later in the campaign. Or they might just bump Nuttall out if campaigning's back on tomorrow (which'd feel a bit early, to my mind). UKIP clearly now below the other four in significance.
    No chance. The BBC would not need that kind of controversy. Nuttall will get his turn, and so he should.
    They could put him on BBC3?
    "UKIP clearly now below the other four in significance."?? On the polling, you mean? I don't think the Beeb should react to short-term stimuli like that, esp. with pollsters being on probation from the last GE. Bumping him out after last night would be the biggest political present anyone could give him; nothing would reinvigorate his troops like a plausible claim that the establishment had conspired to prevent him telling it like it is about Manchester.
    Partly, yes, it is polling but also:

    - Not contesting even close to every seat: on a par with Greens.
    - Truly dismal local election results, which give credence to the polls.
    - Zero MPs and little prospect of winning any MPs.

    To be treated like a big party, I'd suggest that you need either significant national support, which at the very least means an average of 5% across the whole country, given that that's deposit-losing level, but more probably something like 10%; or the likelihood of returning a parliamentary party which would have a significant presence in the House i.e. at least 10, perhaps 20.

    We could argue the detail of both current criteria and relevance of historic record but there has to be a cut-off somewhere and to my mind, UKIP now fall below that level. Why, for example, is UKIP there but the Greens not?
    If the Greens flagship policy had just been voted for by a majority of the country in a referendum I'd let them have half an hour on the telly
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959

    Mirror wrote a rather shall we say awkward article a few hours ago...Basically saying roger Moore said he couldn't do any campaigning for the Tories during this GE and the mirror put it down to him drawing the line at supporting dictator may.

    Sir Roger Moore has shared the screen with a lot of megalomaniac characters, but even he draws the line at Theresa May.

    The Heckler can reveal the PM – noticeably short of cool celebrity fans – left the James Bond star unstirred when she first had aides approach him.


    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/james-bond-legend-roger-moore-10478459
    "Do you expect me to talk, Prime Minister?"

    "No, Mr Bond, I expect you to die....."
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited May 2017

    Moore or Connery as best bond?

    Brosnan of course.
    I think it’s a generational thing, ie, when you are first introduced to James Bond. - Mrs SSC would vote Connery every time, SSC Jnr would vote Brosnan. I judge on the Bond girls, Pussy Galore was best.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    RobD said:

    Cheers for posting that TSE. :o

    That scene is probably the only time in my life I feared I might get asked to leave a cinema.

    I laughed non stop for the rest of the movie.
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    There will be funerals of small children to attend. They can't just go back to normal in two days.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    edited May 2017

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Rhubarb said:

    Andrew Neil interviews suspended.

    Is Corbyn getting out of it?
    I expect that they'll be rescheduled for later in the campaign. Or they might just bump Nuttall out if campaigning's back on tomorrow (which'd feel a bit early, to my mind). UKIP clearly now below the other four in significance.
    No chance. The BBC would not need that kind of controversy. Nuttall will get his turn, and so he should.
    They could put him on BBC3?
    "UKIP clearly now below the other four in significance."?? On the polling, you mean? I don't think the Beeb should react to short-term stimuli like that, esp. with pollsters being on probation from the last GE. Bumping him out after last night would be the biggest political present anyone could give him; nothing would reinvigorate his troops like a plausible claim that the establishment had conspired to prevent him telling it like it is about Manchester.
    Partly, yes, it is polling but also:

    - Not contesting even close to every seat: on a par with Greens.
    - Truly dismal local election results, which give credence to the polls.
    - Zero MPs and little prospect of winning any MPs.

    To be treated like a big party, I'd suggest that you need either significant national support, which at the very least means an average of 5% across the whole country, given that that's deposit-losing level, but more probably something like 10%; or the likelihood of returning a parliamentary party which would have a significant presence in the House i.e. at least 10, perhaps 20.

    We could argue the detail of both current criteria and relevance of historic record but there has to be a cut-off somewhere and to my mind, UKIP now fall below that level. Why, for example, is UKIP there but the Greens not?
    Isn't it because they look over several national elections, not just the last one? And actual elections as well as polls.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401

    Moore or Connery as best bond?

    "James Bond, the Comedy Years"

    Moore was rubbish as Bond, and the franchise became a joke.

    However, whichever actor is playing Bond, I still don't have much of a clue what the plot is all about.

    Moore as The Saint, however, was class.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    Because I was like 6 months old at the time, was the 1979 election campaign suspended when Airey Neave was murdered?

    I can't remember which one, but one of the 74 elections wasn't there major attacks of terrorism on polling day?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    PaulM said:

    There will be funerals of small children to attend. They can't just go back to normal in two days.

    Not for the politicians, I hope
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    edited May 2017

    Moore or Connery as best bond?

    "James Bond, the Comedy Years"

    Moore was rubbish as Bond, and the franchise became a joke.

    However, whichever actor is playing Bond, I still don't have much of a clue what the plot is all about.

    Moore as The Saint, however, was class.
    The Persuaders!

    Brought the Mediterranean glamourous lifestyle to the Britain of the 1970s as we were enjoying our garlic-free dinners of a weekend...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited May 2017
    To get back to the betting, have all the Timothy stinkers been dealt with now ?

    Noone else has spotted anything in the manifesto ...?
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819

    Moore or Connery as best bond?

    Brosnan of course.
    I think it’s a generational thing, ie, when you are first introduced to James Bond. - Mrs SSC would vote Connery every time, SSC Jnr would vote Brosnan. I judge on the Bond girls, Pussy Galore was best.
    Yes I think that's right. Objectively, I recognize that Brosnan's bond films had a lot of flaws, but it was his films I grew up watching, which makes it the benchmark you compare others against.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Moore or Connery as best bond?

    Daniel Craig
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Rhubarb said:

    Andrew Neil interviews suspended.

    Is Corbyn getting out of it?
    I expect that they'll be rescheduled for later in the campaign. Or they might just bump Nuttall out if campaigning's back on tomorrow (which'd feel a bit early, to my mind). UKIP clearly now below the other four in significance.
    No chance. The BBC would not need that kind of controversy. Nuttall will get his turn, and so he should.
    They could put him on BBC3?
    "UKIP clearly now below the other four in significance."?? On the polling, you mean? I don't think the Beeb should react to short-term stimuli like that, esp. with pollsters being on probation from the last GE. Bumping him out after last night would be the biggest political present anyone could give him; nothing would reinvigorate his troops like a plausible claim that the establishment had conspired to prevent him telling it like it is about Manchester.
    Partly, yes, it is polling but also:

    - Not contesting even close to every seat: on a par with Greens.
    - Truly dismal local election results, which give credence to the polls.
    - Zero MPs and little prospect of winning any MPs.

    To be treated like a big party, I'd suggest that you need either significant national support, which at the very least means an average of 5% across the whole country, given that that's deposit-losing level, but more probably something like 10%; or the likelihood of returning a parliamentary party which would have a significant presence in the House i.e. at least 10, perhaps 20.

    We could argue the detail of both current criteria and relevance of historic record but there has to be a cut-off somewhere and to my mind, UKIP now fall below that level. Why, for example, is UKIP there but the Greens not?
    All good points, but a change at this juncture would make Nuttall a martyr and win UKIP votes. Better to let AN eviscerate him.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    PaulM said:

    There will be funerals of small children to attend. They can't just go back to normal in two days.

    That is a private matter for family and friends, not a public one.

    I think this article sets out some important points that papers will be too afraid to publish.

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/after-manchester-its-time-for-anger/19849#.WSQ7LIXTWEd
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    Because I was like 6 months old at the time, was the 1979 election campaign suspended when Airey Neave was murdered?

    The HoC was still sitting doing washup and the GE campaign hadn't yet started.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    PaulM said:

    There will be funerals of small children to attend. They can't just go back to normal in two days.

    No but most will want them to be private and I hope the Press will let them grieve in peace.
  • Moore or Connery as best bond?

    Daniel Craig
    Sir Roger definitely. He was also the star of my favourite thriller, the late sixties classic The Man Who Haunted Himself.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401
    isam said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Rhubarb said:

    Andrew Neil interviews suspended.

    Is Corbyn getting out of it?
    I expect that they'll be rescheduled for later in the campaign. Or they might just bump Nuttall out if campaigning's back on tomorrow (which'd feel a bit early, to my mind). UKIP clearly now below the other four in significance.
    No chance. The BBC would not need that kind of controversy. Nuttall will get his turn, and so he should.
    They could put him on BBC3?
    "UKIP clearly now below the other four in significance."?? On the polling, you mean? I don't think the Beeb should react to short-term stimuli like that, esp. with pollsters being on probation from the last GE. Bumping him out after last night would be the biggest political present anyone could give him; nothing would reinvigorate his troops like a plausible claim that the establishment had conspired to prevent him telling it like it is about Manchester.
    Partly, yes, it is polling but also:

    - Not contesting even close to every seat: on a par with Greens.
    - Truly dismal local election results, which give credence to the polls.
    - Zero MPs and little prospect of winning any MPs.

    To be treated like a big party, I'd suggest that you need either significant national support, which at the very least means an average of 5% across the whole country, given that that's deposit-losing level, but more probably something like 10%; or the likelihood of returning a parliamentary party which would have a significant presence in the House i.e. at least 10, perhaps 20.

    We could argue the detail of both current criteria and relevance of historic record but there has to be a cut-off somewhere and to my mind, UKIP now fall below that level. Why, for example, is UKIP there but the Greens not?
    If the Greens flagship policy had just been voted for by a majority of the country in a referendum I'd let them have half an hour on the telly
    The Greens are quite fortunate that they're not getting half an hour with Neil.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969

    Because I was like 6 months old at the time, was the 1979 election campaign suspended when Airey Neave was murdered?

    The HoC was still sitting doing washup and the GE campaign hadn't yet started.
    Cheers.

    Of course it was only a few days after the Vote of No Confidence.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Because I was like 6 months old at the time, was the 1979 election campaign suspended when Airey Neave was murdered?

    I can't remember which one, but one of the 74 elections wasn't there major attacks of terrorism on polling day?

    In 1992 the IRA bombed the City on the Friday (day after the election). I owe my life to alcohol abuse, because any other Friday I would have walked out of a pub at 8.30 straight into the blast; on that occasion I was so hungover from the night before I headed for home at 5.30.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Rhubarb said:

    Andrew Neil interviews suspended.

    Is Corbyn getting out of it?
    I expect that they'll be rescheduled for later in the campaign. Or they might just bump Nuttall out if campaigning's back on tomorrow (which'd feel a bit early, to my mind). UKIP clearly now below the other four in significance.
    No chance. The BBC would not need that kind of controversy. Nuttall will get his turn, and so he should.
    They could put him on BBC3?
    "UKIP clearly now below the other four in significance."?? On the polling, you mean? I don't think the Beeb should react to short-term stimuli like that, esp. with pollsters being on probation from the last GE. Bumping him out after last night would be the biggest political present anyone could give him; nothing would reinvigorate his troops like a plausible claim that the establishment had conspired to prevent him telling it like it is about Manchester.
    Partly, yes, it is polling but also:

    - Not contesting even close to every seat: on a par with Greens.
    - Truly dismal local election results, which give credence to the polls.
    - Zero MPs and little prospect of winning any MPs.

    To be treated like a big party, I'd suggest that you need either significant national support, which at the very least means an average of 5% across the whole country, given that that's deposit-losing level, but more probably something like 10%; or the likelihood of returning a parliamentary party which would have a significant presence in the House i.e. at least 10, perhaps 20.

    We could argue the detail of both current criteria and relevance of historic record but there has to be a cut-off somewhere and to my mind, UKIP now fall below that level. Why, for example, is UKIP there but the Greens not?
    Clearly UKIP should be there.

    After dementia & the massacre of the innocents, we need the national mood to lighten.

    Step forward, Noble Laureate Professor Sir Paul Nutall.

  • This 'now is not the time to talk politics' bollocks is exactly why people have such a low regard for politicians. If the slaughter of innocent children is not worth politics what is?

    The reason that people say that is because they know that if people talked politics now then folk would reach conclusions that the political class don't want us to reach. It why had these 22 been murdered by a gunman in the US they'd be talking politics about gun-control but when a muslim blows up 22 young people we aren't supposed to talk about it.

    Our political class have failed us. It's not just politicians like Corbyn and Abbott who have the blood of innocents on his hands; it's the entire lot of you. You were warned this would happen, you were told. Yet you stood by and did nothing. Thanks to your appeasement of Islam we are where we are and 22 young girls and boys are dead. Fuck all you politicians. Fuck you all.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    RoyalBlue said:

    PaulM said:

    There will be funerals of small children to attend. They can't just go back to normal in two days.

    That is a private matter for family and friends, not a public one.

    I think this article sets out some important points that papers will be too afraid to publish.

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/after-manchester-its-time-for-anger/19849#.WSQ7LIXTWEd
    Fine, provided we have the collective good sense not to do the first dumb thing that enters some President or prime minister's mind and end up making the situation we face ten times worse.
  • TMA1TMA1 Posts: 225
    I must be a very bad person (or my laptop truly evil) because i cannot get past 3 or 4 posts on here without getting barred and not being able to find out why. But the dark events of last night prompt me to try again. So as I say hello I may as well also say goodbye.

    Cyan has being doing some desperate cheerleading for Corbyn. Cyan says the Arndale bomb killed nobody. It killed two people. It was a 3000lb truck bomb - it could have killed dozens.
    Cyan says the only people who made a killing were developers. Nasty. In fact the Labour hegemony in Manchester had regularly refused private finance - hence resulting in developments like the Arndale which was known locally as 'the biggest lavatory wall in europe'. The scale of the wider Manchester redevelopment (driven by a desire to be a world city) brought in private finance.

    Cyan says let Corbyn speak for himself. Well he has for over 30 years. Now he seeks to rewrite history - both his own and the history of the real facts.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/jeremy-corbyn-should-not-be-allowed-to-rewrite-the-history-of-his-support-for-the-ira/

    'Uncle Joe' Corbyn had a choice if he was genuinely concerned for peace in NI - a choice between the SDLP and the IRA. He chose the IRA and thus stabbed a true democrat and peacemaker, Gerry Fitt, in the back... repeatedly.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401
    With all due respect to Roger Moore, he was a thoroughly implausible Bond and never believed in the character himself. Licence to kill? Not really.

    Craig, Dalton and Connery are the only ones to have got it right, when given a decent script.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    The GE campaign has to recommence as soon as possible. There must be a time for reflection, a time to pay respects, but then life goes on. It has to. We must endure. That is how we win.

    On Corbyn, he will be horrified and sickened to his core by what happened. It will revolt him. But there is no getting away from those he has chosen to associate with in the past. Forget the IRA. Think Stop the War. Remember what they have said after previous atrocities, remember who they have protested against and who they haven't. Remember what they have said about the deaths of British soldiers and civilians, and who they have blamed. Corbyn helped start Stop the War. He was its chair for over a decade. That cannot be brushed under the carpet. It has to be highlighted. Judge a man by the company he keeps. Always.

    Apologies if the above upsets anyone; if it seems too raw a time to be bringing it up; if you judge it inappropriate. But I feel it has to be said. I will not argue the point. I'll say no more.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    TMA1 said:

    I must be a very bad person (or my laptop truly evil) because i cannot get past 3 or 4 posts on here without getting barred and not being able to find out why. But the dark events of last night prompt me to try again. So as I say hello I may as well also say goodbye.

    Cyan has being doing some desperate cheerleading for Corbyn. Cyan says the Arndale bomb killed nobody. It killed two people. It was a 3000lb truck bomb - it could have killed dozens.
    Cyan says the only people who made a killing were developers. Nasty. In fact the Labour hegemony in Manchester had regularly refused private finance - hence resulting in developments like the Arndale which was known locally as 'the biggest lavatory wall in europe'. The scale of the wider Manchester redevelopment (driven by a desire to be a world city) brought in private finance.

    Cyan says let Corbyn speak for himself. Well he has for over 30 years. Now he seeks to rewrite history - both his own and the history of the real facts.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/jeremy-corbyn-should-not-be-allowed-to-rewrite-the-history-of-his-support-for-the-ira/

    'Uncle Joe' Corbyn had a choice if he was genuinely concerned for peace in NI - a choice between the SDLP and the IRA. He chose the IRA and thus stabbed a true democrat and peacemaker, Gerry Fitt, in the back... repeatedly.

    It's nice to see that the Tycho Magnetic Anomaly 1 has a voice :grin:
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401

    Because I was like 6 months old at the time, was the 1979 election campaign suspended when Airey Neave was murdered?

    The HoC was still sitting doing washup and the GE campaign hadn't yet started.
    Cheers.

    Of course it was only a few days after the Vote of No Confidence.
    Had it not been, he wouldn't have been at the Commons (though of course the IRA might have tried to kill him elsewhere).
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    RoyalBlue said:

    PaulM said:

    There will be funerals of small children to attend. They can't just go back to normal in two days.

    That is a private matter for family and friends, not a public one.

    I think this article sets out some important points that papers will be too afraid to publish.

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/after-manchester-its-time-for-anger/19849#.WSQ7LIXTWEd


    ‘Everyone calm down. Love is the answer.’ Where’s the rage? If the massacre of children and their parents on a fun night out doesn’t make you feel rage, nothing will. The terrorist has defeated you. You are dead already.

    I do not feel rage. I feel determination that the loonies of ISIS will have no effect no matter how much they try. Starting the Jihad from this side of the fence is not an answer.

    Marxism was an utter failure, Mr O'Neill seems to need a new target for his anger and vitriol.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    Because I was like 6 months old at the time, was the 1979 election campaign suspended when Airey Neave was murdered?

    The HoC was still sitting doing washup and the GE campaign hadn't yet started.
    Cheers.

    Of course it was only a few days after the Vote of No Confidence.
    The Guildford Pub Bombing happened 5 days before the October GE - I don't think there was any suspension - we made up for it by locking up the wrong people for 15 years.....
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    justin124 said:

    I have heard it suggested that the Police might advise against Corbyn continuing with his big rallies - at which he has been quite effective. That is unlikely I would have thought. Moreover until the 1990s most electioneering by party leaders during the campaign period consisted of addressing mass audiences at various City and Town Halls across the land. Back in the 1960s it was common to find hecklers at those meetings some of whom were effective at interrupting the speakers. This came to mind yesterday with the footage of an Anti – Fox Hunting demonstrator being carried off and arrested during May’s Wrexham visit on the grounds of a ‘breach of the peace’. Nobody tried to arrest those people hecking Harold Wilson , Alec Douglas Home, George Brown or Ted Heath at the 1964 /1966 elections.It seems unnecessary that the police authorities collude in the silencing of dissenters in this way. At the end of the day it is not their job to support the control freakery of today’s party leaders.

    There was one incident at the 1964 election when a protester threw an egg at Alec Douglas-Home and the PM - a former first-class cricketer - caught it without breaking the shell.
    The Scottish Nobility Do It Better ....
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    edited May 2017
    TMA1 said:

    Cyan has being doing some desperate cheerleading for Corbyn.

    As a self proclaimed supporter of the 'radical left' he needs sympathy, when these events are only going to help their best and only hope of getting into power on his well deserved path to being dropped down a political oubliette.
  • I agree with OGH. I have every sympathy for those affected by Manchester but the election must go on as it is about making choices where there are differences. That's democracy. 99.99% of us would agree that today's outrage was barbaric. That's what makes us a civilized country. Now we should have the maturity to return to respectful debate where we diverge and do so with the same energy and passion as before yesterday evening.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    RoyalBlue said:

    PaulM said:

    There will be funerals of small children to attend. They can't just go back to normal in two days.

    That is a private matter for family and friends, not a public one.

    I think this article sets out some important points that papers will be too afraid to publish.

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/after-manchester-its-time-for-anger/19849#.WSQ7LIXTWEd


    ‘Everyone calm down. Love is the answer.’ Where’s the rage? If the massacre of children and their parents on a fun night out doesn’t make you feel rage, nothing will. The terrorist has defeated you. You are dead already.

    I do not feel rage. I feel determination that the loonies of ISIS will have no effect no matter how much they try. Starting the Jihad from this side of the fence is not an answer.

    Marxism was an utter failure, Mr O'Neill seems to need a new target for his anger and vitriol.
    +1.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @SouthamObserver

    "On Corbyn, he will be horrified and sickened to his core by what happened. It will revolt him. "

    You seem very sure of that, Mr. Observer. Terrorists killing and maiming the young and innocent didn't put him off them in the past. If all the PIRA atrocities didn't weaken his resolve I am not sure how you can say that last night's attack will revolt him and that he will be horrified and sickened to his core.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Pulpstar said:

    Where the F did my comment go.

    https://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/4957/politicalbetting-com

    There's a strange bug that creates multiple Vanilla articles.

    Is that the TSEmustbefirst bug?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979

    RoyalBlue said:

    PaulM said:

    There will be funerals of small children to attend. They can't just go back to normal in two days.

    That is a private matter for family and friends, not a public one.

    I think this article sets out some important points that papers will be too afraid to publish.

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/after-manchester-its-time-for-anger/19849#.WSQ7LIXTWEd


    ‘Everyone calm down. Love is the answer.’ Where’s the rage? If the massacre of children and their parents on a fun night out doesn’t make you feel rage, nothing will. The terrorist has defeated you. You are dead already.

    I do not feel rage. I feel determination that the loonies of ISIS will have no effect no matter how much they try. Starting the Jihad from this side of the fence is not an answer.

    Marxism was an utter failure, Mr O'Neill seems to need a new target for his anger and vitriol.
    +1.
    +2
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Moore's Bond films you can watch with your kids.
  • TMA1TMA1 Posts: 225

    Moore or Connery as best bond?

    Daniel Craig
    Sir Roger definitely. He was also the star of my favourite thriller, the late sixties classic The Man Who Haunted Himself.
    Lazeby is generally considered the worst Bond, but he did deliver the best line (in what was not a bad film) -- 'I feel a little stiffness coming on'.

    Every series jumps the shark at some point. Things were going South by the time Moore joined in. The hidden base in a fake volcano in 'You only Live Twice' was the start.

    Sad to see Sir Roger go, but he had a good innings. Hope it was peaceful.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Barnesian said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    PaulM said:

    There will be funerals of small children to attend. They can't just go back to normal in two days.

    That is a private matter for family and friends, not a public one.

    I think this article sets out some important points that papers will be too afraid to publish.

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/after-manchester-its-time-for-anger/19849#.WSQ7LIXTWEd


    ‘Everyone calm down. Love is the answer.’ Where’s the rage? If the massacre of children and their parents on a fun night out doesn’t make you feel rage, nothing will. The terrorist has defeated you. You are dead already.

    I do not feel rage. I feel determination that the loonies of ISIS will have no effect no matter how much they try. Starting the Jihad from this side of the fence is not an answer.

    Marxism was an utter failure, Mr O'Neill seems to need a new target for his anger and vitriol.
    +1.
    +2
    +π?
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Moore or Connery as best bond?

    Daniel Craig
    Sir Roger definitely. He was also the star of my favourite thriller, the late sixties classic The Man Who Haunted Himself.
    He was too gadgety and sauve (oily?) by half. Craig and Dalton are much better, especially Daniel Craig . There is nothing like a bit of rough .... :D
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084

    This 'now is not the time to talk politics' bollocks is exactly why people have such a low regard for politicians. If the slaughter of innocent children is not worth politics what is?

    The reason that people say that is because they know that if people talked politics now then folk would reach conclusions that the political class don't want us to reach. It why had these 22 been murdered by a gunman in the US they'd be talking politics about gun-control but when a muslim blows up 22 young people we aren't supposed to talk about it.

    Our political class have failed us. It's not just politicians like Corbyn and Abbott who have the blood of innocents on his hands; it's the entire lot of you. You were warned this would happen, you were told. Yet you stood by and did nothing. Thanks to your appeasement of Islam we are where we are and 22 young girls and boys are dead. Fuck all you politicians. Fuck you all.

    Your sadness and rage are understandable, but in political terms that's a cop out. To be meaningful you need to set out what you expect government to do by way of response. If it's the same list of "make life miserable for muslims" ideas that one PB'er advanced last night then, whilst you might feel better sitting in your armchair, another bunch of young people will sign up to ISIS's perverted cause and the threat we face simply escalates.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    RoyalBlue said:

    PaulM said:

    There will be funerals of small children to attend. They can't just go back to normal in two days.

    That is a private matter for family and friends, not a public one.

    I think this article sets out some important points that papers will be too afraid to publish.

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/after-manchester-its-time-for-anger/19849#.WSQ7LIXTWEd


    ‘Everyone calm down. Love is the answer.’ Where’s the rage? If the massacre of children and their parents on a fun night out doesn’t make you feel rage, nothing will. The terrorist has defeated you. You are dead already.

    I do not feel rage. I feel determination that the loonies of ISIS will have no effect no matter how much they try. Starting the Jihad from this side of the fence is not an answer.

    Marxism was an utter failure, Mr O'Neill seems to need a new target for his anger and vitriol.
    +1.
    Feeling determination that x will be the case is fine and dandy, but it doesn't have much bearing on whether x turns out to be the case or not. The loonies of ISIS had quite an effect last night, irrespective of how you feel about it, and I'd like them to have the further effect of causing steps to be taken which will prevent recurrences of last night. What does "Starting the Jihad from this side of the fence" actually mean? Is the point you are making that we should not start slaughtering children in recrimination, or what?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    edited May 2017

    With all due respect to Roger Moore, he was a thoroughly implausible Bond and never believed in the character himself. Licence to kill? Not really.

    Craig, Dalton and Connery are the only ones to have got it right, when given a decent script.

    He was a plausible Simon Templar though. I think it was really him. I can still hum the theme tune.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWr_1uLjqic
This discussion has been closed.