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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov has the LDs with the fewest proportion of supporters considering themselves to be working class
Fascinating table from YouGov on what social class people say theybelong to linked to their voting intention twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/st…
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Besides, haven't yougov heard, we've got seven different classes now! (and no, subdividing them doesn't count)
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/labour-in-meltdown-over-selection-row.20726561
or calling Eric to head-butt all of them?
And please, Scottish papers, save space stopping to report what the SNP and SLAB spokepersons say at the end of each paper. It's just the useless line they repeat everytime. I can imagine it without having the need to read it.
That, I'm told, fits in with the Eastleigh experience where the yellows had a real stuggle in the ex-council estate areas which had previous tactically voted for Huhne against the Tory.
Alex Salmond speech from Princeton:
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Speeches/PrincetonUniversity2013
Good on Adam Smith et al, tho he does duck the question of why on devolved matters like health and education are still leading to unequal outcomes (nowt tae dae wi me!) and simply has a pop at the 'bedroom tax'....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22057859
I would guess Labour and Con would use that as excusing why the leadership presents as all being elite though.
Those people would probably be the lib dem to ukip swoppers wouldn't they.
@Plato
Zombies leave me cold. Hehe! The only genuine scary movie that I have ever seen was a mid 1940's film called Dragonwyck, a dark and forbidding place with eerie and spooky mood music. Mind you I was 12 at the time. :-)
'Traditional Working Class' (BBC 7 categories):
Con: 24
Lab: 33
LibDem: 19
UKIP: 42
"He admitted to Nick Robinson that, as the son of a well-off academic, he had not experienced money worries himself.
"I come from a relatively privileged background. I am not going to pretend that I grew up in poverty," he said."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11842711
Although that article contains a quite which is perfectly true, but which sticks in the mind because Labour tactics generally pretend it is not with the Tories, or cannot apply to them (Tory smears are usually on different subjects, eg being in the pockets of unions).
"He added he was "not part of the squeezed middle" but he said he could "listen to and understand" voters' aspirations and "make a difference to the lives"."
Precariat (Precarious Proletariate): 3 (=)
Emergent Service Worker: 6 (-7)
Trad working Class: 19 (-3)
New affluent: 13 (=)
Technical Middle: 15 (+1)
Established Middle: 22 (+6)
Elite: 3 (+1)
Distinct march upmarket.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2305198/The-mutinous-anger-Labour-voters-benefit-scroungers-A-disturbing-dispatch-Manchester-estate.html
All the party leaders could benefit enormously from reading it and considering it very carefully.
Working: 13 (-9)
Upper Working: 11 (-3)
Working Class: 24 (-12)
Lower Middle: 24 (+3)
Middle: 27 (-2)
Upper Middle: 10 (+6)
Middle Class: 61 (+7)
Upper: 0 (=)
Technicality about the article quoted.
Arkan was many things but a hitman he was not.
Given that the Tories seem to be run by posh boys who don't seem to be anti anything on the second list unless they are told to be by focus groups, and labour appear to be pro all of the second list, who are the traditional working class going to vote for?
They are the segment of society who have been ignored/taken for granted by all major political parties for the last forty odd years while they curried favour with any minority they could patronise, and they have probably had enough
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/7248
Incidentally, there was also a question on welfare in the Opinium poll for the Observer. In the Observer’s write up here I was somewhat bemused to find that “When asked for their views on the need for further welfare cuts, just 10% of people said they believed more should be made. Only 14% of Tory supporters backed further welfare reductions compared with 10% of Lib Dems and 5% of Labour supporters”, given how it flew totally in the face of all other polling on the subject. The actual Opinium results are now up here and give a rather different picture – while only 10% think there should be “more cuts”, a further 15% think the government should continue with their present cuts and 57% support a rather “have-your-cake-and-eat-it” option of thinking there should be cuts, but only if they are targetted to protected the poor and disabled. 14% think there should not be any cuts to welfare.
Does OGH write for the Observer?
But I do sometimes wonder if Salmond also (tho to a lesser extent) has a touch of Cameron's inattention to detail - a bit too much 'vision' and not enough 'nitty gritty' - and he's going to need plenty of 'nitty gritty' to carry the argument for independence.
Mike should do the decent thing and delete that very misleading 'Tweet' on the previous page.This is a betting site and not the place for Leftist propaganda whose aim is merely getting Ed Miliband off the hook.
In fact jobs do seem to be being created. Thus the policy would seem to be redundant two whole years before the election.
Not sure that's wise.
The good news, of course, is that you're indulging in wishful thinking. Tory rule we didn't vote for is the problem - the Scottish people are looking for a solution to that problem, one way or another. The No campaign are going to find themselves on the back foot more than they realise.
I'm still reading it.
@James Kelly
I presume you're aware that an independent Scotland will inevitably have a right of centre party. All countries do and it's likely that such a party will win power at some point. Even now the Scottish Conservatives get around 15% a figure which would probably rise post independence for any centre right group.
In the last week, we have been reminded that the Conservatives have not lost the capacity to self-mutilate. In the 1990s, the problem was a Spock-like obsession with economics. Now, it’s an obsession with political tactics. Iain Duncan Smith has spent years building a social justice agenda for the Conservatives which is not just plausible, but widely accepted. Not once has he ever blamed the unemployed for their plight, or spoken about ‘scroungers’. His welfare reform agenda is an extraordiary achievement, the greatest triumph of Tory modernisation. It’s a success worth protecting.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/04/welfare-and-language/
In a PR system they probably will - most likely as junior coalition partners to Labour, as is now the case in an extraordinary number of Scottish councils.
But that's fine. Just so long as we get the balance of power we actually voted for.
https://twitter.com/UKIP/status/320922544423182336/photo/1
The same candidate who came second in Middlesborough:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labour-wins-middlesbrough-by-election-with-ukip-1464792
UKIP twitter account seemt to suggest Richard Elvin (who also stood in Middlesbrough) will be the South Shields candidate
1. The UK is not working. Is the No campaign credible when it says things would be worse in an independent Scotland? The longer living standards stagnate and fall, the harder it will be for No to justify its claims.
2. The same old elite runs things in the tired UK, not just in Parliament but everywhere else too - from the BBC to business. That elite has failed. Independence is the chance to start again. It's Year Zero. Bearing in mind the stagnation, what's not to like about that?
I've already made several posts on the issue. However let's just blame the English, that always works.
"Salmond is spot on about inequality. A society in which only an elite enjoys meaningful improvements in living standards is not sustainable."
True - but a society which lives on debt-financed public spending is equally placed - yet most western economies have done so for years - and fuelled a belief among the gullible that they can do so for ever.
I'm not sure Salmond is about to break the mould although if he persuades enough Scots he would at least remove a big debt burden from the rest of the UK.
The European Commission, if regarded as a government, is a permanent multi-party coalition in which there are a number of left-of-centre Commissioners such as Joaquín Almunia of the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party. Even taking into account the EPP's current predominance, it's fair to say that most Christian Democrat administrations in Europe are to the left of the former Blair administration, and substantially to the left of current Tory Britain.
" inequality is increasing dramatically in the UK."
It certainly did under the previous govt. Now, with the changes to personal allowances, and the extra 5p on top rate tax compared to all but 3 months or so of the last govt, I'm not so sure:)
Con 66.1% LD 20% Lab 12.9%
Conservative failed to submit the nomination papers because of an "administrative issue" (whatever it is)
May Candidates: LD, Lab, UKIP
Should be a strong prospect for a UKIP gain now
Ireland, Portugal and Cyprus all voted for governments led by right-of-centre parties. Indeed, the current Cypriot crisis occurred within days of the former communist president being replaced by a conservative.
On your earlier point, it's curious that when I challenge you like this, you always claim to have answered the point at some unspecified time, but are unable to summarise your response or to provide a link. Please do so now if you wish to have any credibility. Your tired old lie that I am anti-English is not going to get you off the hook here, I'm afraid.
The bad bits being the failure to provide a Tory critique of his own government's policies on health and education?
" It's going to become increasingly difficult to justify claims that things would be worse in an independent Scotland. "
I'm pretty indifferent to Scottish independence. I'm however unconvinced they can do better than in the UK unless the EU funds their deficit to a degree which is unlikely- ask Ireland,Portugal, Spain, etc
" As Salmond says, the UK is one of the world's most unequal countries. "
I really doubt if that statement can be evidenced.
That was one option out of two. The other was to summarise your suggestions for reducing inequality. But don't worry - I'm sure no-one is going to leap to the absurd conclusion that those suggestions do not exist and never have existed *rolls eyes*
He was a brilliant orator in the Westminster context. His speech during the debate on the Iraq invasion was superb.
So your suggestion for reducing inequality is to shrug your shoulders and say it doesn't really exist? OK, that's one mystery cleared up.
" The current elite in all it's forms needs to be confronted with its failures."
I suspect you're unduly harsh on the UK - the current set up here in Spain is very bad for the locals, I don't think things are too great in France right now. Indeed most of Europe is not doing well.
One suggestion, Alan. Just one little suggestion for reducing inequality. You can do it. I know you can.
(I think.)
If we accept the premise of UK inequality (not sure that I do, but that's beside the point) why would Scotland leaving make things 'better' there?
However, that's a brilliant argument compared to this:
More people in the US are getting killed by lunatics on shooting sprees.
It's a democratic right to bear arms.
So let's restrict guns in computer games instead.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/123118-California-Senator-Wants-Fewer-Guns-in-Games
" I'VE DELETED my Tweet on Opinium poll cuts findings cos it was misleading. It was based on reports rather than the actual data now available"
Misleading in what way exactly?
Er, the near-inevitability of left-of-centre rule? Sometimes the explanation is the simple one!
Do you, by any chance, mean a return to grammar schools, a policy that history shows would INCREASE inequality markedly?
If so, try again. If not, do elaborate on how you think the Scottish education system can become more egalitarian.
It doesn't. You've just made a nonsensical statement, which you haven't a hope in hell of justifying.
In this case the paper reported that only 10% wanted more cuts. The other responses were not included in the report and its clear that that this statement on its own gave a misleading impression.
Hmm. As King of Danceria I shall be a benevolent monarch, and provide free wiffle sticks to my many subjects. Let no shirt be without lace, and no trousers without bells!
I'm not aware of anyone, on any side of the political divide, who doesn't hold the aspriation of a high-standard education system that makes people fit for work and a modern economy. I'm still astonishingly unclear about your own practical suggestions for furthering that objective.
" Mr. Kelly, by that argument any geographical area whose local predominant political view isn't the same as that of the current government should try and split. "
Correct. GO SHETLAND!!!
This showed up in unrestricted immigration which hit the poorer in society, fairweather friend multinationals who bed hopped for lower tax rates and cheaper wages, outsourcing and off-shoring and an unquestioning faith in a new economy.
Now we need a fundamnetal rethink on how we are going to operate.
Will this be the forty-eighth or forty-ninth time that I've pointed out that we support the right of Shetland to democratic self-determination, to such an extent that the SNP stood down in favour of the Orkney and Shetland Movement candidate in the 1987 general election.
We actually believe in this democratic self-determination stuff. Can you guys say the same? The evidence is far from clear. For example, if Shetland wanted to declare independence from the UK right now, what would your reaction be?