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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How to get an effective 2-1 that CON will win most seats

SystemSystem Posts: 11,007
edited September 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How to get an effective 2-1 that CON will win most seats

Part of the reason is unequal sized constituencies though a much bigger factor is that LAB voters are much more reluctant to turnout where the result in their constituency appears to be a foregone conclusion. The consequence of this is that turnout levels in LAB heartlands are much lower than in CON ones which impacts on the national vote totals.

Read the full story here


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    Truly horrific result for the Lib Dems in Woking:

    Result - Maybury & Shearwater - Conservative gain from Lib Dem

    Con 44.1% (+22.6)
    Lab 34.8% (+1.1)
    UKIP 10.6% (-0.2)
    LD 10.5% (-23.6)

    http://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/3086/elections-17th-19th-september-2013?page=3#ixzz2fDGt2Fi1

    The Lib Dem vote change in this ward since 2008 is a whopping -38.6 points. That is the stuff of extinction events.
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    I note that Shadsy is now easing down his estimated number of CON seats.

    For a long time it was EVS both above and below Shadsy's best guesstimate of 275.5 Con Seats at the next UK GE. Now the Under 275.5 seats level has gone FAV, at 10/11.

    Paddy Power's break point in 271.5 Con seats (5/6 both above and below).
    StanJames' break point is 265.5 Con seats (10/11 both above and below).

    For reference, the Conservatives won 306 seats at the last UK GE.
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    Truly horrific result for the Lib Dems in Woking:

    Result - Maybury & Shearwater - Conservative gain from Lib Dem

    Con 44.1% (+22.6)
    Lab 34.8% (+1.1)
    UKIP 10.6% (-0.2)
    LD 10.5% (-23.6)

    http://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/3086/elections-17th-19th-september-2013?page=3#ixzz2fDGt2Fi1

    The Lib Dem vote change in this ward since 2008 is a whopping -38.6 points. That is the stuff of extinction events.

    A change of that magnitude - far bigger than other LE results - must be some form of local effect. Still not the news that Clegg would have been wanting, though.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited September 2013
    Mama Cass on vocals...
    Twitter
    Damian McBride ‏@DPMcBride 6m
    @BBC6Music @ChrisHawkinsUK You can't beat 'Dream a little dream of me' by The Mamas and The Papas, Cass Elliot whistling it out.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Alex Bell in the Guardian - Scottish independence: what happens after the flag-waving?
    "Alex Salmond's vision for an independent Scotland is too narrow. We need more than old songs and tired policies"
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Twitter
    YouGov ‏@YouGov 10m
    Update: Labour lead at 4 - Latest YouGov / The Sun results 17th Sep - Con 33%, Lab 37%, LD 9%, UKIP 13%; APP -26 http://y-g.co/1bpfZz7
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    If the LD YG scores are anything to go by the conferences are going to make little difference to vote shares. Maybe Clegg's speech will change things.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    edited September 2013

    Truly horrific result for the Lib Dems in Woking:

    Result - Maybury & Shearwater - Conservative gain from Lib Dem

    Con 44.1% (+22.6)
    Lab 34.8% (+1.1)
    UKIP 10.6% (-0.2)
    LD 10.5% (-23.6)

    http://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/3086/elections-17th-19th-september-2013?page=3#ixzz2fDGt2Fi1

    The Lib Dem vote change in this ward since 2008 is a whopping -38.6 points. That is the stuff of extinction events.

    A change of that magnitude - far bigger than other LE results - must be some form of local effect. Still not the news that Clegg would have been wanting, though.
    One would think so - yet the local rag makes no mention of extenuating factors:

    http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/election-tories-take-woking-lib-4721668

    Edit - wrote too soon:

    "LIBERAL DEMOCRAT Mohammed Bashir has been found guilty of fixing the 2012 Maybury and Sheerwater ward election."

    http://www.wokingnewsandmail.co.uk/?p=3948&cb=05900766055565327
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    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/liberaldemocrats/10315946/Three-years-of-free-school-meals-for-all-children-says-Nick-Clegg.html

    Read the 'best rated' Comments to see what one section of the public think of this spendthrift policy.
    Billyrawmone's is very popular:

    "Sod off Clegg. Now I have to feed kids whose parents earn more than I do?!

    You are supposed to be balancing the budget you innumerate to$$er.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,916
    edited September 2013

    Truly horrific result for the Lib Dems in Woking:

    Result - Maybury & Shearwater - Conservative gain from Lib Dem

    Con 44.1% (+22.6)
    Lab 34.8% (+1.1)
    UKIP 10.6% (-0.2)
    LD 10.5% (-23.6)

    http://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/3086/elections-17th-19th-september-2013?page=3#ixzz2fDGt2Fi1

    The Lib Dem vote change in this ward since 2008 is a whopping -38.6 points. That is the stuff of extinction events.

    A change of that magnitude - far bigger than other LE results - must be some form of local effect. Still not the news that Clegg would have been wanting, though.
    One would think so - yet the local rag makes no mention of extenuating factors:

    http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/election-tories-take-woking-lib-4721668

    Edit - wrote too soon:

    "LIBERAL DEMOCRAT Mohammed Bashir has been found guilty of fixing the 2012 Maybury and Sheerwater ward election."

    http://www.wokingnewsandmail.co.uk/?p=3948&cb=05900766055565327
    Thanks for that.

    In which case it's hard to make any conclusions from the result.

    I'm surprised Bashir sentence was only not being able to stand for public office for five years - I would have thought a jail term would have been more in order.

    Edit: from later articles, it looks as though it is now in the CPS's hands.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited September 2013
    Thanks for the research which explains a lot.

    The 2012 result was overturned by High Court because of electoral fraud.



    Truly horrific result for the Lib Dems in Woking:

    Result - Maybury & Shearwater - Conservative gain from Lib Dem

    Con 44.1% (+22.6)
    Lab 34.8% (+1.1)
    UKIP 10.6% (-0.2)
    LD 10.5% (-23.6)

    http://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/3086/elections-17th-19th-september-2013?page=3#ixzz2fDGt2Fi1

    The Lib Dem vote change in this ward since 2008 is a whopping -38.6 points. That is the stuff of extinction events.

    A change of that magnitude - far bigger than other LE results - must be some form of local effect. Still not the news that Clegg would have been wanting, though.
    One would think so - yet the local rag makes no mention of extenuating factors:

    http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/election-tories-take-woking-lib-4721668

    Edit - wrote too soon:

    "LIBERAL DEMOCRAT Mohammed Bashir has been found guilty of fixing the 2012 Maybury and Sheerwater ward election."

    http://www.wokingnewsandmail.co.uk/?p=3948&cb=05900766055565327
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013

    Truly horrific result for the Lib Dems in Woking:

    Result - Maybury & Shearwater - Conservative gain from Lib Dem

    Con 44.1% (+22.6)
    Lab 34.8% (+1.1)
    UKIP 10.6% (-0.2)
    LD 10.5% (-23.6)

    http://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/3086/elections-17th-19th-september-2013?page=3#ixzz2fDGt2Fi1

    The Lib Dem vote change in this ward since 2008 is a whopping -38.6 points. That is the stuff of extinction events.

    A change of that magnitude - far bigger than other LE results - must be some form of local effect. Still not the news that Clegg would have been wanting, though.
    One would think so - yet the local rag makes no mention of extenuating factors:

    http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/election-tories-take-woking-lib-4721668

    Edit - wrote too soon:

    "LIBERAL DEMOCRAT Mohammed Bashir has been found guilty of fixing the 2012 Maybury and Sheerwater ward election."

    http://www.wokingnewsandmail.co.uk/?p=3948&cb=05900766055565327
    It appears from the second article linked that the defeated Labour candidate brought the High Court against Mr Bashir.

    The reward for his efforts being a "plague on both your houses" response from the good citizens of Woking.

    Some wonderful stuff in the article:

    Mr Mawrey highlighted in his report the abnormally high number of late registrations, multiple registrations in the same property, a high proportion of postal votes to personal votes, and a higher-than average turnout figures.

    The electoral commissioner, who was in jovial mood as he delivered his verdict, said: “The best that can be said of the postal voting figures in themselves is that they are ambiguous.”

    A total of 43.9 per cent of voters allegedly had their say in April 2012 – this represented an eight per cent spike when compared to the 35.81 per cent average for the rest of the borough.

    The turnout for the ward was also high at 41.25 per cent, more than 10 per cent higher than the average for the entire UK.


    And tim is always telling us that it is the Tories who benefit most from postal voting system.
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    RedRag1RedRag1 Posts: 527
    tim said:

    PFinch said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/liberaldemocrats/10315946/Three-years-of-free-school-meals-for-all-children-says-Nick-Clegg.html

    Read the 'best rated' Comments to see what one section of the public think of this spendthrift policy.
    Billyrawmone's is very popular:

    "Sod off Clegg. Now I have to feed kids whose parents earn more than I do?!

    You are supposed to be balancing the budget you innumerate to$$er.

    Some on the Tory side are going bonkers about this policy, watch their hypocrisy on a marriage tax break.
    Tim, wonder if we will see a comment in the Telegraph along the lines of "Sod off Cameron, why should I be paying for other peoples tax breaks because I do not want to get married".
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,131
    One thing that the school meals policy shows is that the Coalition is still alive and well. Clearly there has been an agreement that there will some government policy announcements at the Lib Dem conference. Imagine that, Lib Dem Ministers announcing not aspirations but acutal goverment policy.

    The announcement could easily have been made by Gove, it is his department after all, but the Lib Dems have been given a place in the sun. When the tory conference comes I expect that the policy announcements will be more wide ranging but probably focus on the marriage tax break. Once again a Coalition cannot do this without cooperation and tacit support.

    The Coalition still operates as a more cohesive unit than the Blair/Brown Labour party did. It is surprising how quickly this has become the new normal and we take it for granted. When a prat like Cable sounds a discordant note there is almost as much briefing against him by his own side as by the tories.

    Breaking all this up is going to be complicated.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    RedRag1 said:

    tim said:

    PFinch said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/liberaldemocrats/10315946/Three-years-of-free-school-meals-for-all-children-says-Nick-Clegg.html

    Read the 'best rated' Comments to see what one section of the public think of this spendthrift policy.
    Billyrawmone's is very popular:

    "Sod off Clegg. Now I have to feed kids whose parents earn more than I do?!

    You are supposed to be balancing the budget you innumerate to$$er.

    Some on the Tory side are going bonkers about this policy, watch their hypocrisy on a marriage tax break.
    Tim, wonder if we will see a comment in the Telegraph along the lines of "Sod off Cameron, why should I be paying for other peoples tax breaks because I do not want to get married".
    Good morning, Red Rag.

    Such a comment is far more likely to come from the LOTO at the House of Commons despatch box than be posted online under a Telegraph article.

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    RedRag1 said:

    Tim, wonder if we will see a comment in the Telegraph along the lines of "Sod off Cameron, why should I be paying for other peoples tax breaks because I do not want to get married".

    Well, that's my point of view. being single and living on my own is bloody expensive, why should I subsidise married couples who benefit from economies of scale?

    The shame of the free school meals policy is that we seem to have brought up a generation of parents who do not know - or care - how to feed their children properly.

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    Soaraway Labour .. a full four points ahead...going for it..
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    tim said:

    Proper evidence based policy

    "The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school
    pupils at Key Stages 1 and 2, with pupils in the pilot areas making between four and
    eight weeks’ more progress than similar pupils in comparison areas"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184047/DFE-RR227.pdf

    And bloody cheap for that impact.

    OK I have read your comment six times. Unless "Proper evidence based policy" contains hidden levels of vituperation and irony are you actually praising a Coalition policy?
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013
    tim said:

    Proper evidence based policy

    "The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school
    pupils at Key Stages 1 and 2, with pupils in the pilot areas making between four and
    eight weeks’ more progress than similar pupils in comparison areas"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184047/DFE-RR227.pdf

    And bloody cheap for that impact.

    tim

    I doubt whether Tories are disputing the link between sound nutrition and learning performance in pupils of primary school age.

    Nor can I see any real objection to redirecting available funds to support efforts to improve school nutrition.

    The philosophical point will be the moral hazard of removing parental responsibility to provide their own children with the right foods.

    It is yet another case of the means of delivery not justifying the end.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,131
    tim said:

    Proper evidence based policy

    "The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school
    pupils at Key Stages 1 and 2, with pupils in the pilot areas making between four and
    eight weeks’ more progress than similar pupils in comparison areas"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184047/DFE-RR227.pdf

    And bloody cheap for that impact.

    Tend to agree Tim. And it is not that parents can't cook or provide for their children. It is that it is good for the children to eat a hot, nourishing meal in the middle of the day and it boosts their performance in the afternoons. Smaller stomachs need fed more regularly.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    Proper evidence based policy

    "The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school
    pupils at Key Stages 1 and 2, with pupils in the pilot areas making between four and
    eight weeks’ more progress than similar pupils in comparison areas"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184047/DFE-RR227.pdf

    And bloody cheap for that impact.

    tim

    I doubt whether Tories are disputing the link between sound nutrition and learning performance in pupils of primary school age.

    Nor can I see any real objection to redirecting available funds to support efforts to improve school nutrition.

    The philosophical objection will be the moral hazard of removing parental responsibility to provide their own children with the right foods.

    It is yet another case of the means not justifying the end.
    How do parents provide their children with a hot meal at lunchtime when they are in school?
    They buy it.

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013
    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    Proper evidence based policy

    "The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school
    pupils at Key Stages 1 and 2, with pupils in the pilot areas making between four and
    eight weeks’ more progress than similar pupils in comparison areas"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184047/DFE-RR227.pdf

    And bloody cheap for that impact.

    tim

    I doubt whether Tories are disputing the link between sound nutrition and learning performance in pupils of primary school age.

    Nor can I see any real objection to redirecting available funds to support efforts to improve school nutrition.

    The philosophical objection will be the moral hazard of removing parental responsibility to provide their own children with the right foods.

    It is yet another case of the means not justifying the end.
    How do parents provide their children with a hot meal at lunchtime when they are in school?
    They buy it.

    To be less cantankerous, I would not object to subsidies just the removal of all obligations on the part of the parents to provide.

    If something is given away free it is often not valued by the recipient.

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    tim said:

    Proper evidence based policy

    "The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school
    pupils at Key Stages 1 and 2, with pupils in the pilot areas making between four and
    eight weeks’ more progress than similar pupils in comparison areas"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184047/DFE-RR227.pdf

    And bloody cheap for that impact.

    That's an interesting and though-provoking study. Leaving aside the questions about parenting skills, it looks promising.

    However another quote from the study:
    It is clear that the universal entitlement pilot delivers better value for money than the extended entitlement pilot, which did not significantly improve any of the outcomes considered in this evaluation. Compared with other initiatives targeting similar outcomes, however, the picture is more mixed: the universal entitlement pilot appeared to deliver better value for money (in terms of higher attainment of pupils on average) than some educational interventions, but worse value for money than others. This raises questions about its overall value for money compared with other initiatives.
    Jamie Oliver's campaign seemed to have other advantages:
    This criticism is much less likely to apply to the Jamie Oliver ‘Feed Me Better’ campaign. In terms of both the scope of the intervention and the likely range of impacts, this initiative is probably most comparable to the universal entitlement pilot. To the extent that the campaign cost less and produced a similar impact on educational attainment (as well as a significant reduction in absence rates from school, compared with no impact on this outcome for the universal entitlement pilot), one might be tempted to conclude that offering free school meals to all primary school pupils represents worse value for money in comparison. It must be remembered, however, that this campaign focused on the quality of school meals rather than on free provision and it pre-dated the introduction of nutritional guidelines for schools, which would make it substantially more difficult to achieve similar impacts now.
    But definitely worth considering taking forward.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    Proper evidence based policy

    "The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school
    pupils at Key Stages 1 and 2, with pupils in the pilot areas making between four and
    eight weeks’ more progress than similar pupils in comparison areas"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184047/DFE-RR227.pdf

    And bloody cheap for that impact.

    tim

    I doubt whether Tories are disputing the link between sound nutrition and learning performance in pupils of primary school age.

    Nor can I see any real objection to redirecting available funds to support efforts to improve school nutrition.

    The philosophical point will be the moral hazard of removing parental responsibility to provide their own children with the right foods.

    It is yet another case of the means of delivery not justifying the end.
    ???????

    a bit off the planet even for you Mr Pole.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Well folks it's a coming ....

    The countdown starts ....

    How will Scotland go ? ....

    Yup the Rugby World Cup starts two years from today !!

    Oh and er there's some vote up north about Wee Eck becoming Prime Minister up there about a year from now.
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    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,006
    edited September 2013
    tim said:

    How do parents provide their children with a hot meal at lunchtime when they are in school?

    Why does a meal have to be hot? It's the sh1t parents put in lunchboxes that's the problem, not packed lunches in general.

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    @Avery

    Did your mater and pater get separate bills for your jam roly poly at twit school?

    A single inclusive bill was sent, tim.

    Why would any school want to send separate bills to each parent?

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    tim said:

    Food is equally important and should come out of the same budget.

    Unfortunately it looksd like the money will be extra, and not from elsewhere in the education budget. Especially as this means we will be giving extra money to the Scots and Welsh, where it is an area where they have the competence to make their own decisions.

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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    JackW said:

    Well folks it's a coming ....

    The countdown starts ....

    How will Scotland go ? ....

    Yup the Rugby World Cup starts two years from today !!

    Oh and er there's some vote up north about Wee Eck becoming Prime Minister up there about a year from now.

    @JackW

    But will Wee Eck avoid a TV debate with a certain Mr Darling as was being suggested on Today this morning?

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    Proper evidence based policy

    "The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school
    pupils at Key Stages 1 and 2, with pupils in the pilot areas making between four and
    eight weeks’ more progress than similar pupils in comparison areas"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184047/DFE-RR227.pdf

    And bloody cheap for that impact.

    tim

    I doubt whether Tories are disputing the link between sound nutrition and learning performance in pupils of primary school age.

    Nor can I see any real objection to redirecting available funds to support efforts to improve school nutrition.

    The philosophical point will be the moral hazard of removing parental responsibility to provide their own children with the right foods.

    It is yet another case of the means of delivery not justifying the end.
    ???????

    a bit off the planet even for you Mr Pole.
    With which statement do you disagree?

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    To illustrate the value is this price is some much better than the 6/4 best price that’s available on the Tories being the seat winner.
    2-1 is only value if you think that 6/4 is an accurate reflection of the probability.

    It looks like a swing of less than 2% will be enough to put Labour ahead in terms of seats - the tiny swing achieved by Hague in 2001 could be enough, as would Kinnock's 1992 swing.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    JackW said:

    Well folks it's a coming ....

    The countdown starts ....

    How will Scotland go ? ....

    Yup the Rugby World Cup starts two years from today !!

    Oh and er there's some vote up north about Wee Eck becoming Prime Minister up there about a year from now.

    Huzzah Mr W !

    Only 365 days of mind-numbing boredom to go !

    Watch in amazement as the Badger warns the oilfields will spontaneously combust if Scotland votes yes.

    Marvel as First Minister Turkey Twizzler promises all Scots endless free gold and their their own pet panda.

    Wake me up in a year's time.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Financier said:

    JackW said:

    Well folks it's a coming ....

    The countdown starts ....

    How will Scotland go ? ....

    Yup the Rugby World Cup starts two years from today !!

    Oh and er there's some vote up north about Wee Eck becoming Prime Minister up there about a year from now.

    @JackW

    But will Wee Eck avoid a TV debate with a certain Mr Darling as was being suggested on Today this morning?

    I missed that.

    Have the Chinese ordered Salmond not to meet Darling ?? .... I think we should be told !!

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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    Proper evidence based policy

    "The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school
    pupils at Key Stages 1 and 2, with pupils in the pilot areas making between four and
    eight weeks’ more progress than similar pupils in comparison areas"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184047/DFE-RR227.pdf

    And bloody cheap for that impact.

    tim

    I doubt whether Tories are disputing the link between sound nutrition and learning performance in pupils of primary school age.

    Nor can I see any real objection to redirecting available funds to support efforts to improve school nutrition.

    The philosophical point will be the moral hazard of removing parental responsibility to provide their own children with the right foods.

    It is yet another case of the means of delivery not justifying the end.
    ???????

    a bit off the planet even for you Mr Pole.
    With which statement do you disagree?

    I think it's pretty obvious removing the obligation for school meals was a mistake. Your philosphical point was just a tad silly.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    tim said:

    How do parents provide their children with a hot meal at lunchtime when they are in school?

    Why does a meal have to be hot? It's the sh1t parents put in lunchboxes that's the problem, not packed lunches in general.

    It is the parents not the packed lunches which are the problem.

    A better use of the £600 million may be to pack the parents off to cookery school to learn how to prepare and procure nutritional lunches.

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    First McARSE Scottish Independence Referendum Projection :

    Countdown - 1 hour 1 minute 1 second
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    I must have missed it but do they still play serious rugby in Scotland?
    JackW said:

    Well folks it's a coming ....

    The countdown starts ....

    How will Scotland go ? ....

    Yup the Rugby World Cup starts two years from today !!

    Oh and er there's some vote up north about Wee Eck becoming Prime Minister up there about a year from now.

  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    How do parents provide their children with a hot meal at lunchtime when they are in school?

    Why does a meal have to be hot? It's the sh1t parents put in lunchboxes that's the problem, not packed lunches in general.

    It is the parents not the packed lunches which are the problem.

    A better use of the £600 million may be to pack the parents off to cookery school to learn how to prepare and procure nutritional lunches.

    We could easily find £600 million by just closing down Oxford University and stopping the endless supply of political idiots.

    Bargain.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    Proper evidence based policy

    "The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school
    pupils at Key Stages 1 and 2, with pupils in the pilot areas making between four and
    eight weeks’ more progress than similar pupils in comparison areas"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184047/DFE-RR227.pdf

    And bloody cheap for that impact.

    tim

    I doubt whether Tories are disputing the link between sound nutrition and learning performance in pupils of primary school age.

    Nor can I see any real objection to redirecting available funds to support efforts to improve school nutrition.

    The philosophical point will be the moral hazard of removing parental responsibility to provide their own children with the right foods.

    It is yet another case of the means of delivery not justifying the end.
    ???????

    a bit off the planet even for you Mr Pole.
    With which statement do you disagree?

    I think it's pretty obvious removing the obligation for school meals was a mistake. Your philosphical point was just a tad silly.
    I am all for keeping the obligation for school meals. And I have no objections to state subsidy.

    What I am arguing for is some provision for a discretionary decision by parents in favour of providing their children with proper nutrition and some 'ownership' of the responsibility.

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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Having spent much of last week among people who frequently do not know where their next meal will come from let alone their next drink of potable water, much of the hair-splitting that appears to be still prevalent on PB seems to be rather puerile - what an example to the rest of the world!

    This seems to have been well demonstrated by the LD conference. Are not political conferences supposed to be places where genuine differences can be aired and debated and a common policy agreed? Not according to Vince Cable who appeared - spouting bile and a twisted bitterness, but unable to defend his biliousness when keenly interviewed - old age having caught up with him and passed him by?

    It is said that voters do not like a publicly divided party - so no Conference bounce for the LDs then?
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013

    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    How do parents provide their children with a hot meal at lunchtime when they are in school?

    Why does a meal have to be hot? It's the sh1t parents put in lunchboxes that's the problem, not packed lunches in general.

    It is the parents not the packed lunches which are the problem.

    A better use of the £600 million may be to pack the parents off to cookery school to learn how to prepare and procure nutritional lunches.

    We could easily find £600 million by just closing down Oxford University and stopping the endless supply of political idiots.

    Bargain.
    Let's meet half way.

    I am prepared to surrender Ruskin College and allow it to be converted to a remedial cookery school for failed parents.

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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Truly horrific result for the Lib Dems in Woking:

    Result - Maybury & Shearwater - Conservative gain from Lib Dem

    Con 44.1% (+22.6)
    Lab 34.8% (+1.1)
    UKIP 10.6% (-0.2)
    LD 10.5% (-23.6)

    http://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/3086/elections-17th-19th-september-2013?page=3#ixzz2fDGt2Fi1

    The Lib Dem vote change in this ward since 2008 is a whopping -38.6 points. That is the stuff of extinction events.

    Yes Stuart, but even I can see that the winning conservative bears an arabic name (Rashid Mohammed} and that can make all the difference in this heavily tribal ward. The voters voted for a name not a party, and that to my mind is bloody dangerous to democracy.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I must have missed it but do they still play serious rugby in Scotland?

    JackW said:

    Well folks it's a coming ....

    The countdown starts ....

    How will Scotland go ? ....

    Yup the Rugby World Cup starts two years from today !!

    Oh and er there's some vote up north about Wee Eck becoming Prime Minister up there about a year from now.

    Yes you did miss it .... but I'll pass your details onto the Scottish front row so that they might offer you a more personal reply !!

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @politicshome: For the first time, more voters back cuts than oppose them polho.me/19d5IzT”.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    Proper evidence based policy

    "The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school
    pupils at Key Stages 1 and 2, with pupils in the pilot areas making between four and
    eight weeks’ more progress than similar pupils in comparison areas"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184047/DFE-RR227.pdf

    And bloody cheap for that impact.

    tim

    I doubt whether Tories are disputing the link between sound nutrition and learning performance in pupils of primary school age.

    Nor can I see any real objection to redirecting available funds to support efforts to improve school nutrition.

    The philosophical point will be the moral hazard of removing parental responsibility to provide their own children with the right foods.

    It is yet another case of the means of delivery not justifying the end.
    ???????

    a bit off the planet even for you Mr Pole.
    With which statement do you disagree?

    I think it's pretty obvious removing the obligation for school meals was a mistake. Your philosphical point was just a tad silly.
    I am all for keeping the obligation for school meals. And I have no objections to state subsidy.

    What I am arguing for is some provision for a discretionary decision by parents in favour of providing their children with proper nutrition and some 'ownership' of the responsibility.

    Nonsense Mr Pole. By the time you put your bureaucracy in to administer it and your rules regulation and CRB style checks it would just be a total nightmare. Free for all and move on. The returns on getting children properly fed and attuned to a better diet will pay off. Less waddling adults will save the cash in health care costs alone.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    How do parents provide their children with a hot meal at lunchtime when they are in school?

    Why does a meal have to be hot? It's the sh1t parents put in lunchboxes that's the problem, not packed lunches in general.

    It is the parents not the packed lunches which are the problem.

    A better use of the £600 million may be to pack the parents off to cookery school to learn how to prepare and procure nutritional lunches.

    We could easily find £600 million by just closing down Oxford University and stopping the endless supply of political idiots.

    Bargain.
    Let's meet half way.

    I am prepared to surrender Ruskin College and allow it to be converted to a remedial cookery school for failed parents.

    I dunno. I was hoping to sell all those empty medieval buildings to Harry Potter Land, I reckon we could make more money.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Financier said:

    Having spent much of last week among people who frequently do not know where their next meal will come from let alone their next drink of potable water, much of the hair-splitting that appears to be still prevalent on PB seems to be rather puerile - what an example to the rest of the world!

    This seems to have been well demonstrated by the LD conference. Are not political conferences supposed to be places where genuine differences can be aired and debated and a common policy agreed? Not according to Vince Cable who appeared - spouting bile and a twisted bitterness, but unable to defend his biliousness when keenly interviewed - old age having caught up with him and passed him by?

    It is said that voters do not like a publicly divided party - so no Conference bounce for the LDs then?

    LOL, do you honestly think that Con and Lab are going to have open debates in the coming weeks ?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    fitalass said:

    Alex Bell in the Guardian - Scottish independence: what happens after the flag-waving?
    "Alex Salmond's vision for an independent Scotland is too narrow. We need more than old songs and tired policies"

    Very true , we have been listening to Westminster "Jam Tomorrow" for far too long as we get poorer and poorer, time to get singing "Do it my Way"
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    I see that in the last week that the price of Brent Crude has declined by about 7% whilst in a slightly longer period that GB£ has strengthened against the USD by about 2.5%. A reduction in the prices at the pumps??
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    Proper evidence based policy

    "The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school
    pupils at Key Stages 1 and 2, with pupils in the pilot areas making between four and
    eight weeks’ more progress than similar pupils in comparison areas"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184047/DFE-RR227.pdf

    And bloody cheap for that impact.

    tim

    I doubt whether Tories are disputing the link between sound nutrition and learning performance in pupils of primary school age.

    Nor can I see any real objection to redirecting available funds to support efforts to improve school nutrition.

    The philosophical point will be the moral hazard of removing parental responsibility to provide their own children with the right foods.

    It is yet another case of the means of delivery not justifying the end.
    ???????

    a bit off the planet even for you Mr Pole.
    With which statement do you disagree?

    I think it's pretty obvious removing the obligation for school meals was a mistake. Your philosphical point was just a tad silly.
    I am all for keeping the obligation for school meals. And I have no objections to state subsidy.

    What I am arguing for is some provision for a discretionary decision by parents in favour of providing their children with proper nutrition and some 'ownership' of the responsibility.

    Nonsense Mr Pole. By the time you put your bureaucracy in to administer it and your rules regulation and CRB style checks it would just be a total nightmare. Free for all and move on. The returns on getting children properly fed and attuned to a better diet will pay off. Less waddling adults will save the cash in health care costs alone.
    You are a statist at heart, Mr. Brooke.

    I shall pray or your soul.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Morning all, very good by-election win for Tories in Woking and Tory HQ confirms 134,000 party members. I seem to recall some PBers were confidently pronouncing that the number was under 100,000. Clearly they knew better than the Party Chairman and Treasurer.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    A sign of the society we now have. On the SKY News report on the concept of drunks being required to pay up if taken to a place of safety overnight, 2 20/30something women interviewed late at night in Newcastle were critical of the fact "people living in poverty" find alcohol far too expensive so have a limited ability to go out on the razzle. With attitudes like that, no wonder there are 400,000+ children in the UK on social work at risk registers.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214
    edited September 2013

    Morning all, very good by-election win for Tories in Woking and Tory HQ confirms 134,000 party members. I seem to recall some PBers were confidently pronouncing that the number was under 100,000. Clearly they knew better than the Party Chairman and Treasurer.

    Here is the link to the ConHome (sic) article (and note the 174,000 claimed as 'total' membership)

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2013/09/exclusive-cchq-declares-conservative-party-membership-to-be-134000.html
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214
    Regarding the Woking by-election, I fear the grand coalition of Mike K and Mark Senior (that's an awesome combination) has called it correctly and this is - in Mark's words - "Asian politics" at work.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013

    Morning all, very good by-election win for Tories in Woking and Tory HQ confirms 134,000 party members. I seem to recall some PBers were confidently pronouncing that the number was under 100,000. Clearly they knew better than the Party Chairman and Treasurer.

    ER

    I think the Conservative Party membership numbers must be pegged to sterling.

    The pound has risen 6.6 percent in the past six months, the best performer among 10 developed-nation currencies tracked by Bloomberg Correlation-Weighted Indexes.

    You know that a recovery is embedded when you read market comments such as this one on the fall in inflation rate announced yesterday:

    “The data was in line with economist expectations, but the market has become accustomed to U.K. data outperforming,” said Neil Jones, head of hedge-fund sales at Mizuho Bank Ltd. in London.

    Perhaps we should invite Gordon to return for a few months to knock the complacency out of the markets.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    edited September 2013
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    Proper evidence based policy

    "The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school


    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184047/DFE-RR227.pdf

    And bloody cheap for that impact.

    tim


    It is yet another case of the means of delivery not justifying the end.
    ???????

    a bit off the planet even for you Mr Pole.
    With which statement do you disagree?

    I think it's pretty obvious removing the obligation for school meals was a mistake. Your philosphical point was just a tad silly.
    I am all for keeping the obligation for school meals. And I have no objections to state subsidy.


    Nonsense Mr Pole. By the time you put your bureaucracy in to administer it and your rules regulation and CRB style checks it would just be a total nightmare. Free for all and move on. The returns on getting children properly fed and attuned to a better diet will pay off. Less waddling adults will save the cash in health care costs alone.
    You are a statist at heart, Mr. Brooke.

    I shall pray or your soul.
    LOL why thank you Mr Pole ! Though I'd see myself more as a pragmatist, some things are worth doing, do them and pay up. It's what happens when you work for a living rather than debate philosophical niceties in the JCR. Nonetheless, I shall go out a happier man today, strengthened by knowing your prayers are with me and my soul has a guardian angel. ;-)
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    Financier said:

    JackW said:

    Well folks it's a coming ....

    The countdown starts ....

    How will Scotland go ? ....

    Yup the Rugby World Cup starts two years from today !!

    Oh and er there's some vote up north about Wee Eck becoming Prime Minister up there about a year from now.

    @JackW

    But will Wee Eck avoid a TV debate with a certain Mr Darling as was being suggested on Today this morning?

    Salmond would not and should not lower himself to speak to the Labour Monkey , he wants to discuss with the organ grinder who is running scared. Cameron should grow a spine and tell us all about these union benefits.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    malcolmg said:

    Financier said:

    JackW said:

    Well folks it's a coming ....

    The countdown starts ....

    How will Scotland go ? ....

    Yup the Rugby World Cup starts two years from today !!

    Oh and er there's some vote up north about Wee Eck becoming Prime Minister up there about a year from now.

    @JackW

    But will Wee Eck avoid a TV debate with a certain Mr Darling as was being suggested on Today this morning?

    Salmond would not and should not lower himself to speak to the Labour Monkey , he wants to discuss with the organ grinder who is running scared. Cameron should grow a spine and tell us all about these union benefits.
    I don't think it's so much Salmond lowering himself, as can he rise to debate Darling ? Salmond's kicked off the running scared ploy and now it's biting him back.
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    Good morning, everyone

    Mr. G, if only the Scots are voting, and the Scots may separate, surely it makes more sense for Salmond to debate with someone who is on equal terms (a Scottish politician representing people in Scotland) than Cameron? After all, if the vote is Yes than Salmond and Darling will be in the same boat.

    I realise that he'd prefer to have a go at an English Conservative, however.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    A sign of the society we now have. On the SKY News report on the concept of drunks being required to pay up if taken to a place of safety overnight, 2 20/30something women interviewed late at night in Newcastle were critical of the fact "people living in poverty" find alcohol far too expensive so have a limited ability to go out on the razzle. With attitudes like that, no wonder there are 400,000+ children in the UK on social work at risk registers.

    @Easterrosss

    But in Newcastle they may be still trying to experience the outer limits of hedonism!
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    Membership drive from the Conservatives?

    "[Mr Shapps] wants now to revise the [Conservative Party membership] figures regularly, and send MPs a league table showing where their Association stands. "

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2013/09/exclusive-cchq-declares-conservative-party-membership-to-be-134000.html

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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Good morning, everyone

    Mr. G, if only the Scots are voting, and the Scots may separate, surely it makes more sense for Salmond to debate with someone who is on equal terms (a Scottish politician representing people in Scotland) than Cameron? After all, if the vote is Yes than Salmond and Darling will be in the same boat.

    I realise that he'd prefer to have a go at an English Conservative, however.

    essentially that's the goal, Salmond wants a debate with a plummy southerner so the home crowd cheer him on. I'd like to think Cameron isn't quite that stupid but that would be tempting fate. And then there's Osborne.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    malcolmg said:

    Financier said:

    JackW said:

    Well folks it's a coming ....

    The countdown starts ....

    How will Scotland go ? ....

    Yup the Rugby World Cup starts two years from today !!

    Oh and er there's some vote up north about Wee Eck becoming Prime Minister up there about a year from now.

    @JackW

    But will Wee Eck avoid a TV debate with a certain Mr Darling as was being suggested on Today this morning?

    Salmond would not and should not lower himself to speak to the Labour Monkey , he wants to discuss with the organ grinder who is running scared. Cameron should grow a spine and tell us all about these union benefits.
    Please correct me if I am mistaken; but Cameron will not be entitled to vote in the upcoming referendum but Darling and Salmond will?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    edited September 2013

    Membership drive from the Conservatives?

    "[Mr Shapps] wants now to revise the [Conservative Party membership] figures regularly, and send MPs a league table showing where their Association stands. "

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2013/09/exclusive-cchq-declares-conservative-party-membership-to-be-134000.html

    What use is it to the Cons if they pile up 100 more members per consitiuency in safe southern seats ? Their problem is they need members in the North, big cities and Scotland.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    malcolmg said:

    Financier said:

    JackW said:

    Well folks it's a coming ....

    The countdown starts ....

    How will Scotland go ? ....

    Yup the Rugby World Cup starts two years from today !!

    Oh and er there's some vote up north about Wee Eck becoming Prime Minister up there about a year from now.

    @JackW

    But will Wee Eck avoid a TV debate with a certain Mr Darling as was being suggested on Today this morning?

    Salmond would not and should not lower himself to speak to the Labour Monkey , he wants to discuss with the organ grinder who is running scared. Cameron should grow a spine and tell us all about these union benefits.
    I don't think it's so much Salmond lowering himself, as can he rise to debate Darling ? Salmond's kicked off the running scared ploy and now it's biting him back.
    Alan, Don't be silly , Darling is a front just to protect Tory boys, Darling would sell himself to the devil for money. He is a numpty back bencher , failed chancellor and has little to offer. If the unionists are as sure as they are supposed to be then Cameron should be doing the debating. Asking for Salmond to speak to a junior non government back bencher is a joke.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    Good morning, everyone

    Mr. G, if only the Scots are voting, and the Scots may separate, surely it makes more sense for Salmond to debate with someone who is on equal terms (a Scottish politician representing people in Scotland) than Cameron? After all, if the vote is Yes than Salmond and Darling will be in the same boat.

    I realise that he'd prefer to have a go at an English Conservative, however.

    In that case then Morris, why is it not the Scottish Secretary who at least is in the government. Why a failed Labour back bencher.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Why would David Cameron debate with Alex Salmond? The SNP keep telling us that the Tories are a non-party with no place in Scottish public life. The debate, if there is one should be between the representatives of the party with most to gain from independence (the SNP) and that with most to lose from independence (Labour). We have had 3 Labour First Ministers in Scotland and Labour is the official opposition. We have not had an Tory ministers in Holyrood and the Tories have never formed the official opposition.

    As presently framed, the Independence Referendum is an all-Scotland affairs so it should be Alex Salmond v Johann Lamont or the head of the Yes campaign v Alistair Darling as head of Better Together.

    I realise for most people in England this will only register with them as an issue on 19th September 2014 but most Scots I know are utterly bored with the Indy Ref campaign and just wish the vote was today, not a year hence.

    I am still far from convinced the result will be anything like as clear cut as the polls are suggesting hence my reference to 19th September 2014.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Good morning, everyone

    Mr. G, if only the Scots are voting, and the Scots may separate, surely it makes more sense for Salmond to debate with someone who is on equal terms

    Another PB tory who doesn't realise who Darling's opposite number is. It will sink in eventually.



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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited September 2013

    Membership drive from the Conservatives?

    "[Mr Shapps] wants now to revise the [Conservative Party membership] figures regularly, and send MPs a league table showing where their Association stands. "

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2013/09/exclusive-cchq-declares-conservative-party-membership-to-be-134000.html

    What use is it to the Cons if they pile up 100 more members per consitiuency in safe southern seats ? Their problem is they need members in the North, big cities and Scotland.
    Members have friends, and family outside their association area. They have even been known to change their address.
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    Mr. G, don't you think it would necessarily queer the pitch if there's a vote on Scottish independence, with only the Scots voting, and one side represented by a Scot whilst the other is represented by a man who lives several hundred miles away and is ineligible to vote (and who would become a foreigner, to Scots, if Yes won)?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    German left edging ahead of Merkel...?
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    Mr. Pork, whilst I'm sure patronising me makes you feel better it doesn't actually constitute a legitimate point.

    Alex Salmond's opposite number, as pointed out by Mr. Easterross below, is either the Leader of the Opposition in Scotland or the leader of the opposing referendum campaign.

    Suppose we were to have a debate on leaving the EU. Would it be the fairest way if Farage spoke for Out and Barroso spoke for In?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    First McARSE Scottish Independence Referendum Projection

    Countdown - 15 minutes
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    MG The debate should be limited to those that are eligible to vote...or open the vote.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Financier said:

    JackW said:

    Well folks it's a coming ....

    The countdown starts ....

    How will Scotland go ? ....

    Yup the Rugby World Cup starts two years from today !!

    Oh and er there's some vote up north about Wee Eck becoming Prime Minister up there about a year from now.

    @JackW

    But will Wee Eck avoid a TV debate with a certain Mr Darling as was being suggested on Today this morning?

    Salmond would not and should not lower himself to speak to the Labour Monkey , he wants to discuss with the organ grinder who is running scared. Cameron should grow a spine and tell us all about these union benefits.
    I don't think it's so much Salmond lowering himself, as can he rise to debate Darling ? Salmond's kicked off the running scared ploy and now it's biting him back.
    Alan, Don't be silly , Darling is a front just to protect Tory boys, Darling would sell himself to the devil for money. He is a numpty back bencher , failed chancellor and has little to offer. If the unionists are as sure as they are supposed to be then Cameron should be doing the debating. Asking for Salmond to speak to a junior non government back bencher is a joke.
    No the joke is Salmond trying to put himself on a par with the PM. As has been pointed out numerous times the Union has already conceded the point that if Scots want to go they can go, so what's to debate ? This is now a scottish internal matter as you boys wanted, you keep reminding the rest of us we are but observers who can't vote, so go sort it out among yourselves. Whether you like it or not the SNP don't speak for Scotland, the majority of Scots didn't vote for them. The opposition for better or worse is headed by the second largest party
    in Holyrood and their spokesman is Darling. If Eck can't be bothered to take on the debate with his own electorate because it's beneath him, then so be it, but it doesn't really say much for the Scottish Parliamentary system.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited September 2013

    Mr. Pork, whilst I'm sure patronising me makes you feel better it doesn't actually constitute a legitimate point.

    Alex Salmond's opposite number, as pointed out by Mr. Easterross below, is either the Leader of the Opposition in Scotland or the leader of the opposing referendum campaign.

    Was there some part of "Darling's opposite number " which confused you?


    Darling is the chairman of "better together". Now try really hard and see if you can work out who his opposite number might be. Clearly you need a few clues. "Better together" is the official No campaign while "Yes Scotland" is the official Yes campaign and both campaigns have very similar structures and job titles for their prominent figures like Darling.



  • Options
    PFinchPFinch Posts: 9
    edited September 2013
    Financier said:

    I see that in the last week that the price of Brent Crude has declined by about 7% whilst in a slightly longer period that GB£ has strengthened against the USD by about 2.5%. A reduction in the prices at the pumps??

    The price of diesel is closely linked to the seasonal demand from the US for home heating oil - which is the same product. So lower in the summer and a rise every autumn and winter, peaking a month or so before the Budget, amid MSM reports of the annual tax price hike being 'delayed'.

    Note that there is no intrinsic reason why motoring fuel should be taxed any higher than domestic fuel: we're no longer at war with Germany!

    This year is no exception: prices have risen from 138.9 to 141.9 around here in recent weeks, so a drop below 140p would be welcomed.

    The differential over petrol has been down to 3p/litre recently - the lowest I can recall in recent years.

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    Membership drive from the Conservatives?

    "[Mr Shapps] wants now to revise the [Conservative Party membership] figures regularly, and send MPs a league table showing where their Association stands. "

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2013/09/exclusive-cchq-declares-conservative-party-membership-to-be-134000.html

    What use is it to the Cons if they pile up 100 more members per consitiuency in safe southern seats ? Their problem is they need members in the North, big cities and Scotland.
    It all helps. Even if the new members are all in the south (and that's a big if), then they get more income, potentially more ground workers, and more names on the mailing list.

    In addition, people move around nowadays.

    All parties should try to have as broad a base as possible. That means tackling not just numbers, but also demographics.
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    F1: quick check of the forecast suggests it'll be dry on race day, and for qualifying. Some thunderstorms about, though, so it's worth keeping an eye on the weather.
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    This is Darling's opposite number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Canavan
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Douglas Fraser writing on the economic implications of Scottish Independence and its share of the UK debt:

    "To get from the current and rising UK debt levels (passed on to a newly independent Scotland) to the 60% level required of EU members under the Maastricht Treaty, NIESR says Holyrood would have to run a surplus of 3.1% annually for the next ten years.

    However, its average deficit has been around 2.3% (including its geographic share of oil and gas taxation) over that same period of 2000 to 2012.

    The gap between that average deficit of the past and the average surplus in the next decade suggests a 'fiscal tightening' of 5.4%. That is, you either cut spending by 5.4%, or you raise taxes, or you do a bit of both.

    NIESR points out that would still leave Scotland vulnerable to a drop in the oil price or another recession, knocking its fiscal plans off course (as is the UK at present, of course). In the unique circumstances in which Scotland would find itself, the think tank has come up with an interesting, if provocative, suggestion - Scotland could trade its future oil revenue to pay off the UK's debt.

    With some understatement, it is concluded: "There may be significant political limitations to this possibility."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-24140981

    Worth a read - also shows how large the unknowns for Yes voters are.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    First McARSE Scottish Independence Referendum Projection :

    Should Scotland Be An Independent Country ?

    Yes 42% .. No 58%

    Scotland remains in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited September 2013
    My four year old boy started full time school last week. He was four in July so he's a proper young buck. He did a full year of part-time nursery last year.

    His school uniform for this term (I asked the wife) cost £126.00.

    School dinners (he prefers his sandwich box) are £9 a week.

    It's not a concern for us but - given the 'keeping up with the Jones' culture - I bet it is a struggle for some parents to keep their children kitted out, especially if they have more than one child in school. My boy wanted a new Lego bag, Lego sandwich box, Lego pencil case etc etc..

    It all adds up so I'm certainly not against the govt helping out where it can.

    On the flip side, every school has its non-working parents who gets subsidised for it all. My boy was in nursery school last year with a little boy who was one of seven kids. I know the father from school, he was hell of a boy. None of the parents worked, so it must cost the govt a hell of a lot to subsidise all seven of their kids through their school lives. Fair play, their boy always looked smarter than mine!
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Salmond grandstanding on the debates ?

    I guess its all he has left.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Membership drive from the Conservatives?

    "[Mr Shapps] wants now to revise the [Conservative Party membership] figures regularly, and send MPs a league table showing where their Association stands. "

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2013/09/exclusive-cchq-declares-conservative-party-membership-to-be-134000.html

    What use is it to the Cons if they pile up 100 more members per consitiuency in safe southern seats ? Their problem is they need members in the North, big cities and Scotland.
    It all helps. Even if the new members are all in the south (and that's a big if), then they get more income, potentially more ground workers, and more names on the mailing list.

    In addition, people move around nowadays.

    All parties should try to have as broad a base as possible. That means tackling not just numbers, but also demographics.
    I can't see it helping that much myself JJ. If they're all southern based the party just gets more out of touch with the rest of the country. Policies become about how best to manage the finance sector or house price inflation. The Cons problem is not that they need more members it's that they need more members in the right parts of the country to build an election base from which to win seats.
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    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    This is Darling's opposite number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Canavan

    In a similar way that this is Alex Salmond's opposite number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Mick_Pork said:

    Mr. Pork, whilst I'm sure patronising me makes you feel better it doesn't actually constitute a legitimate point.

    Alex Salmond's opposite number, as pointed out by Mr. Easterross below, is either the Leader of the Opposition in Scotland or the leader of the opposing referendum campaign.

    Was there some part of "Darling's opposite number " which confused you?


    Darling is the chairman of "better together". Now try really hard and see if you can work out who his opposite number might be. Clearly you need a few clues. "Better together" is the official No campaign while "Yes Scotland" is the official Yes campaign and both campaigns have very similar structures and job titles for their prominent figures like Darling.



    Mick I am a Scot, who lives in Scotland and will be voting in the referendum. I am unsure who Alistair Darling's opposite number is. Is it Blair Jenkins who I understand to be Chief Exec of the Yes campaign and therefore a non-political person, Nicola Sturgeon who is Deputy FM or A N Other?
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    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    The excellent Lib Dem policy on Free School meals really contrasts with the narrow minded foolish Tory policy on Married Couples Allowance.

    The Lib Dem policy is an investment in the future, in our children and will pay dividends for decades.

    The Tory policy is misguided, a waste of money and a perversion of priorities.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited September 2013

    This is Darling's opposite number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Canavan


    Well done.
    Blair McDougall and Blair Jenkins are also prominent and have been on the media a fair bit in scotland. You know who isn't because he's been rather busy undermining little Ed along with the other Blairites at westminster lately? Alistair Darling.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    "tim" doesn't believe in Santa !!

    BOO !!!!!!!!
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited September 2013

    Mick_Pork said:

    Mr. Pork, whilst I'm sure patronising me makes you feel better it doesn't actually constitute a legitimate point.

    Alex Salmond's opposite number, as pointed out by Mr. Easterross below, is either the Leader of the Opposition in Scotland or the leader of the opposing referendum campaign.

    Was there some part of "Darling's opposite number " which confused you?


    Darling is the chairman of "better together". Now try really hard and see if you can work out who his opposite number might be. Clearly you need a few clues. "Better together" is the official No campaign while "Yes Scotland" is the official Yes campaign and both campaigns have very similar structures and job titles for their prominent figures like Darling.



    Mick I am a Scot, who lives in Scotland and will be voting in the referendum. I am unsure who Alistair Darling's opposite number is. Is it Blair Jenkins who I understand to be Chief Exec of the Yes campaign and therefore a non-political person, Nicola Sturgeon who is Deputy FM or A N Other?

    JohnnyJimmy beat you to it. He seems well enough informed at least.
    I know why a Blairite like Darling won't relish the thought of facing his opposite number but I'm afraid that's just too bad.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    I had no idea Dennis Canavan heads up the Yes campaign. He is hardly ever on the Scottish TV news. He may be on Newsnight Scotland from time to time but I find it such a tedious Labour party political platform I prefer the late SKY News and paper review instead.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    JackW said:

    First McARSE Scottish Independence Referendum Projection :

    Should Scotland Be An Independent Country ?

    Yes 42% .. No 58%

    Scotland remains in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    Mr W.

    have you got a voter turnout prediction ?
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    tim said:

    @Avery

    Did your mater and pater get separate bills for your jam roly poly at twit school?

    At my state comp we had some on free school meals and others, like me, who had to pay.

    I wholeheartedly agree that school children should have a healthy hot meal at lunch times and would go as far as mandating that this be provided by the school canteen.

    As for the parental responsibility angle... I'm not convinced that ensuring school children have a decent hot lunch in the school canteen in anyway removes parental responsibility. If the kitchen is producing healthy and tasty meals that the kids are happy to eat, then surely no parent will complain (surely any responsible parent would see it as a good thing). But there's the rub, the meals need to be tasty as well as health to avoid the push from parents wanting to give packed lunches.

    Don't see why it should be free though, subsidised maybe...

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    First McARSE Scottish Independence Referendum Projection :

    Should Scotland Be An Independent Country ?

    Yes 42% .. No 58%

    Scotland remains in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    Mr W.

    have you got a voter turnout prediction ?
    No not yet. I'll be adding that feature in closer to the vote.

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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited September 2013

    I had no idea Dennis Canavan heads up the Yes campaign.

    I didn't expect you to. Though if you're also claiming not to know who Dennis Canavan is then I'm afraid I'll have to take that with an enormous pinch of salt.

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    First McARSE Scottish Independence Referendum Projection :

    Should Scotland Be An Independent Country ?

    Yes 42% .. No 58%

    Scotland remains in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    Mr W.

    have you got a voter turnout prediction ?
    No not yet. I'll be adding that feature in closer to the vote.

    What about a voter turnoff prediction, Jack?

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    AveryLP said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    First McARSE Scottish Independence Referendum Projection :

    Should Scotland Be An Independent Country ?

    Yes 42% .. No 58%

    Scotland remains in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    Mr W.

    have you got a voter turnout prediction ?
    No not yet. I'll be adding that feature in closer to the vote.

    What about a voter turnoff prediction, Jack?

    LOL

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    Max bet: £39.04 on this market btw.
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