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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marf’s take on the burka row

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited September 2013 in General

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  • Hehe
  • Brilliant, Marf! :)
  • Curse of the new thread, FPT:

    Gaming/politics:

    not entirely unpredictably, there's a GTA V related outcry. A torture scene, apparently (don't have the game due to poverty and also lacking the time, really).

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127963-Grand-Theft-Auto-V-Torture-Scene-Causes-Uproar

    Has anyone here seen that scene, and also played The Last of Us? It'd need to go some to be more harrowing. Also, the torture scene in MGS3 didn't stop that game being rated 15 (a guy's electrocuted whilst suspended from the ceiling and hooded).

    On-topic: nice cartoon. I do think it should be banned in at least some circumstances.
  • Curse of the new thread, FPT:

    Gaming/politics:

    not entirely unpredictably, there's a GTA V related outcry. A torture scene, apparently (don't have the game due to poverty and also lacking the time, really).

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127963-Grand-Theft-Auto-V-Torture-Scene-Causes-Uproar

    Has anyone here seen that scene, and also played The Last of Us? It'd need to go some to be more harrowing. Also, the torture scene in MGS3 didn't stop that game being rated 15 (a guy's electrocuted whilst suspended from the ceiling and hooded).

    On-topic: nice cartoon. I do think it should be banned in at least some circumstances.

    Mr Dancer, way back in 2001, Return to Castle Wolfenstein had someone being tortured through electrocution in the opening scene (Escape 1).
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Curse of the new thread, FPT:

    Gaming/politics:

    not entirely unpredictably, there's a GTA V related outcry. A torture scene, apparently (don't have the game due to poverty and also lacking the time, really).

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127963-Grand-Theft-Auto-V-Torture-Scene-Causes-Uproar

    Has anyone here seen that scene, and also played The Last of Us? It'd need to go some to be more harrowing. Also, the torture scene in MGS3 didn't stop that game being rated 15 (a guy's electrocuted whilst suspended from the ceiling and hooded).

    On-topic: nice cartoon. I do think it should be banned in at least some circumstances.

    I think the issue here is that the player is controlling the torturer, rather than watching a cut-scene. That said, participative murder in games has been normalised for decades. Weird when you think about it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    edited September 2013
    I'm still reeling from the revelation that Baloo the Bear was a Nazi
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    What do PBTories think about today's YouGov? (Cause we all know everyone who votes Conservative and posts on PB.Com thinks exactly the same)
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    tim said:

    The BBC have been trying to find a health worker who wears a veil all day and failing, although we do have a political story out of it all

    Sorry to p*ss on your chips and disrupt your narrative, but that's not true.

    A newly qualified nurse, Umm Sufyaan, 21, wants to be able to wear her niqab at work. She said she always felt "a bit uncomfortable on shift" when she was not wearing the full veil.

    "If you're giving someone some medication, as long as they can hear you and understand you, there's no need for them to see your face."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-24158041
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2013

    I'm still reeling from the revelation that Baloo the Bear was a Nazi

    Driven to it by Short Man Syndrome, just like the Fuhrer.

    EDIT: Darn. That was Boo Boo, not Baloo. *slinks off in shame*
  • I have enough difficulty deciding what I'm going to wear without worrying about what other people want to wear.
  • Dr. Prasannan, I think I've heard the title but never saw the game.

    Then again, I was surprised God of War... 2, I think, was an 18 because the violence was so cartoonish and over the top. I think you crush Theseus' head in a door at some point.

    Mr. Anorak, that's a legitimate point. The MGS3 scene I referred to and The Last Of Us' more harrowing moments were cutscenes. However, one could argue whether tapping a button to progress is a huge step away from watching Jack Bauer electrocute someone.
  • Curse of the new thread, FPT:

    Gaming/politics:

    not entirely unpredictably, there's a GTA V related outcry. A torture scene, apparently (don't have the game due to poverty and also lacking the time, really).

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127963-Grand-Theft-Auto-V-Torture-Scene-Causes-Uproar

    Has anyone here seen that scene, and also played The Last of Us? It'd need to go some to be more harrowing. Also, the torture scene in MGS3 didn't stop that game being rated 15 (a guy's electrocuted whilst suspended from the ceiling and hooded).

    On-topic: nice cartoon. I do think it should be banned in at least some circumstances.


    I played GTA V for the first time today, I've got a dodgy knee, so was resting up for the day after finishing a busy set a work, my lad was at college, so I figured I'd try it out. Dunno about the torture scene, but I got sidetracked after a few minutes, and ended up in a lap dancing bar, fettling a blonde dancer called Chastity!

  • Channel 4 news may be interesting:

    "An intriguing lead story tonight, a rare insight into the beginnings of the Ukip leader Nigel Farage, who attended the posh private school Dulwich College as a boy. It transpires that his behaviour was deemed so extreme that there was a question of whether he was fit material to become a prefect. Political Correspondent Michael Crick has obtained a letter from one of the teachers of the time in which she alleges Farage was a racist, a fascist and had sung Hitler Youth songs. All this when the Ukip leader was some 17 years of age. Mr Farage denies the charges in a lively interview with Michael."

    I think we're all allowed to be a little foolish @17!
  • Curse of the new thread, FPT:

    Gaming/politics:

    not entirely unpredictably, there's a GTA V related outcry. A torture scene, apparently (don't have the game due to poverty and also lacking the time, really).

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127963-Grand-Theft-Auto-V-Torture-Scene-Causes-Uproar

    Has anyone here seen that scene, and also played The Last of Us? It'd need to go some to be more harrowing. Also, the torture scene in MGS3 didn't stop that game being rated 15 (a guy's electrocuted whilst suspended from the ceiling and hooded).

    On-topic: nice cartoon. I do think it should be banned in at least some circumstances.

    Apropos of not much, the Freedom from Torture Chief Executive Keith Best mentioned in the piece was Con MP for Anglesey.
  • Mr. Stopper, it's the parents' fault. Calling a girl Chastity is just asking for trouble down the line.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013
    tim said:

    The BBC have been trying to find a health worker who wears a veil all day and failing, although we do have a political story out of it all

    If Auntie had bothered to look in the operating theatres she would have found a lot of health workers wearing green veils.

    The fact the BBC didn't just confirms its liberal bias.
  • Mr. Divvie, cheers for that info. I do wonder how many of these people play games. That said, I haven't played/watched the scene myself (may check Youtube) so I'd prefer not to comment. Games *can* go too far, but usually what happens is that people who wouldn't know Kratos from Sonic over-react about something they know little.

    ""Four to five-year-olds have a tendency to copy what they see on TV, whether it's this or Fireman Sam putting out fires," she said. "ATL is not calling for a ban on these games, or censorship at all. What we are asking is for parents to become aware that the little ones are seeing these things."

    It's an 18-rated game. And if parents can't work out a GTA game might not be a good thing for a child of 4 to watch then I suspect that child is going to have a problematic upbringing.
  • This might be a good time for a second-hand anecdote.

    A friend of mine was a duty solicitor in a northern town. He got called into the local nick aearly in the morning, to be greeted with a custody sergeant who was in hysterics. The story, if it is to be believed, is as follows:

    A farmer had got drunk in town. As he meandered home past the local hospital, he wandered in, took a white gown off a peg and went into an all-women ward. He was on his fourth or fifth intimate examination before a woman wondered 1) Why such examinations were being done early in the morning, 2) why the doctor's breath smelt of alcohol, and 3) why he was wearing muddy wellies.

    No idea if the story is true ...
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    Nice cartoon,but thought mixed wards had all but gone.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10320186/Chicago-the-murder-capital-of-America.html

    Particularly bad gangstas or particularly bad paramedics?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10321173/Germany-industry-in-revolt-as-green-dream-causes-cost-spiral.html

    "Germany’s top economic adviser has called for a radical rethink of the country’s energy policies, warning that the green dream is going badly wrong as costs spiral out of control."

    Instead of raising their salary the political class shouldn't be paid at all. They should have to work for nothing as a penance for all the harm they've done.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    Are we due any polls apart from YouGov in the next 48 hours?
  • 'SNP tops latest poll on Scottish Parliament voting intentions'

    IpsosMORI/STV News
    Scottish Parliament voting intention
    Fieldwork: 9-15 September
    Sample size = 1000

    Constituency vote (FPTP):
    SNP 41%
    Lab 37%
    Con 13%
    LD 7%

    Net leader satisfaction:
    Patrick Harvie +11
    Alex Salmond +8
    Johann Lamont +6
    Ruth Davidson +/-0
    Willie Rennie -5
    David Cameron -28

    Party supporters' net satisfaction with leaders:
    David Cameron (among Con voters) +66
    Alex Salmond (among SNP voters) +64
    Willie Rennie (among LD voter) +44
    Ruth Davidson (among Con voters) +39
    Johann Lamont (among Lab voters) +39

    http://news.stv.tv/politics/240014-holyrood-voting-poll-snp-on-top-while-labour-makes-gains/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Can I just say that I completely agree with Richard Tyndall on the last thread. This is not the first time I have agreed with him :-)
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,211
    edited September 2013
    Andy_JS said:

    Are we due any polls apart from YouGov in the next 48 hours?

    Populus tomorrow. I think Monday's had a 7% Lab lead.
  • Anecdotal, I know, but I've spent a fair bit of time in Leicester's hospitals over the last few years, what with having elderly parents, and a few serious illnesses and injuries within my clan. I have to report that I have never seen a member of staff in a full veil. I don't know if Leicester NHS Trusts have any regulations on it, but, if you were going to see a veiled nurse, you think you'd find one in as diverse a city as Leicester.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    'SNP tops latest poll on Scottish Parliament voting intentions'

    IpsosMORI/STV News
    Scottish Parliament voting intention
    Fieldwork: 9-15 September
    Sample size = 1000

    Constituency vote (FPTP):
    SNP 41%
    Lab 37%
    Con 13%
    LD 7%

    Net leader satisfaction:
    Patrick Harvie +11
    Alex Salmond +8
    Johann Lamont +6
    Ruth Davidson +/-0
    Willie Rennie -5
    David Cameron -28

    Party supporters' net satisfaction with leaders:
    David Cameron (among Con voters) +66
    Alex Salmond (among SNP voters) +64
    Willie Rennie (among LD voter) +44
    Ruth Davidson (among Con voters) +39
    Johann Lamont (among Lab voters) +39

    http://news.stv.tv/politics/240014-holyrood-voting-poll-snp-on-top-while-labour-makes-gains/

    Mid term blues Stuart, beware of swingback. :-)
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited September 2013
    It's funny that over 40 years after 'Flower Power' the same reactionary forces are still trying to get people conform to their norms. Timothy Leary would be turning in his grave.

    Tune in Turn on and Drop out and get your goose-stepping comrades to join you.

    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9ffzwm1pe1rf0vt2o1_500.jpg
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    Everyone's clear that GTA is bad taste, moderated by humour and a satirical and self-mocking edge. The current one has been criticised for not having enough of the latter, and the torture scene does sound vile. But it's not clear that a society that cheerfully accepted the fond depiction of Hannibal Lecter in movies is well-placed to criticise - it's pointless to pick on computer games in particular.
  • 'SNP tops latest poll on Scottish Parliament voting intentions'

    IpsosMORI/STV News
    Scottish Parliament voting intention
    Fieldwork: 9-15 September
    Sample size = 1000

    Constituency vote (FPTP):
    SNP 41%
    Lab 37%
    Con 13%
    LD 7%

    Net leader satisfaction:
    Patrick Harvie +11
    Alex Salmond +8
    Johann Lamont +6
    Ruth Davidson +/-0
    Willie Rennie -5
    David Cameron -28

    Party supporters' net satisfaction with leaders:
    David Cameron (among Con voters) +66
    Alex Salmond (among SNP voters) +64
    Willie Rennie (among LD voter) +44
    Ruth Davidson (among Con voters) +39
    Johann Lamont (among Lab voters) +39

    http://news.stv.tv/politics/240014-holyrood-voting-poll-snp-on-top-while-labour-makes-gains/

    Mid term blues Stuart, beware of swingback. :-)
    Err... "swingback" is from the opposition to the government Alan. So, plenty of swingback would be lovely.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    edited September 2013
    GIN1138 said:

    What do PBTories think about today's YouGov? (Cause we all know everyone who votes Conservative and posts on PB.Com thinks exactly the same)

    Labour are in a Catch 22.

    With Zero hours contracts and all the rest Labour should be having a field day but they can't because posing as champions of the oppressed can't work while they support unlimited mass immigration for what should be obvious supply and demand reasons.

    As Cerise is blocked by that from going down the "Blue Labour" path that pretty much just leaves the Blairite rentboys-for-globalists position but hard to get anyone to vote for that except during a massive credit boom.

    So he's stuck in no-man's land leaking support from both ends and has to rely on the Cameroons messing up (in public).

    edit: And the "in public" part is something they are controlling better.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    tim said:

    Anorak said:

    tim said:

    The BBC have been trying to find a health worker who wears a veil all day and failing, although we do have a political story out of it all

    Sorry to p*ss on your chips and disrupt your narrative, but that's not true.

    A newly qualified nurse, Umm Sufyaan, 21, wants to be able to wear her niqab at work. She said she always felt "a bit uncomfortable on shift" when she was not wearing the full veil.

    "If you're giving someone some medication, as long as they can hear you and understand you, there's no need for them to see your face."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-24158041
    1.By the fact that she feels uncomfortable and wants to wear one suggests that she doesn't
    2.Pissing on someone else's chips negates the whole point of the expression which is based around pissing specifically on your own chips
    Riiiight so it's about her not the patients; well its a kind of NHS view I suppose. I wonder if its ever occurred to here a frontline job might not be her thing ?
  • Toby Harnden ‏@tobyharnden 1m

    "Damian McPrickface" - what Tony Blair aide Benjamin Wegg-Prosser called Gordon Brown aide Damian McBride in email

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/19/tony-blair-gordon-brown
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    'SNP tops latest poll on Scottish Parliament voting intentions'

    IpsosMORI/STV News
    Scottish Parliament voting intention
    Fieldwork: 9-15 September
    Sample size = 1000

    Constituency vote (FPTP):
    SNP 41%
    Lab 37%
    Con 13%
    LD 7%

    Net leader satisfaction:
    Patrick Harvie +11
    Alex Salmond +8
    Johann Lamont +6
    Ruth Davidson +/-0
    Willie Rennie -5
    David Cameron -28

    Party supporters' net satisfaction with leaders:
    David Cameron (among Con voters) +66
    Alex Salmond (among SNP voters) +64
    Willie Rennie (among LD voter) +44
    Ruth Davidson (among Con voters) +39
    Johann Lamont (among Lab voters) +39

    http://news.stv.tv/politics/240014-holyrood-voting-poll-snp-on-top-while-labour-makes-gains/

    Mid term blues Stuart, beware of swingback. :-)
    Err... "swingback" is from the opposition to the government Alan. So, plenty of swingback would be lovely.
    Hence the smilie Stuart, I hadn't realised irony was dead in Sweden. :-)
  • C4 News laying into Farage right now.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    edited September 2013
    I've never played GTA, maybe because I've been using Macs since the mid-90s and at that time most games were only made for Windows and other non-Apple machines. SimCity was an exception at that time.
  • Gin1138 - you ask what do tories posting on here think about last nights YouGov. I can only speak for myself but whilst believing strongly that its an outlier,its nevertheless been great to swam around today in delusional made! Seriously though, even if it is an outlier that doesn't mean that it wonlt become reality some time soon.If I was a labour supporter I might be just a tad worried. Of course they are favourites to win in 2015 but just supposing it is neck and neck (or becomes so in the next month or so) then David Cameron only needs to reduce UKIP by 4% and he's upto 40% in the polls. On top of that if Clegg just gets 2% of his lot back fromLabour then DC is in overall majority territory. What seemed absolutely impossible just a few weeks ago now does not seem so out of reach. Interesting times. Cheers.
  • Mr. Palmer, cheers for your response to that.

    I just watched a snippet of the scene on Youtube. Whilst unpleasant, it's certainly no worse than what's available elsewhere in TV/films/games. The interactivity (which looks pretty limited) would seem to be the greatest difference.

    An issue with games, perhaps, is that the level of violence can stay the same, but graphics improving beyond measure from the Mega Drive to the PS4 means that a handful of pixels have become an incredibly accurate depiction of violence.

    In reply to, er, myself, I just thought of a dramatic difference with The Last Of Us, namely that TLOU is damned harrowing throughout and deadly serious, whereas GTA is a generally fun series. So, brutality in TLOU fits the world, whereas it could jar in GTA V (not played it so can't be sure) .
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    I think this is a Bundestag poll for Bavaria only:

    CSU 47%
    SPD 22%
    Green 8%
    FDP 5%
    AfD 4%
    FW 3%
    Linke 2%
    Pirates 2%

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/laender.htm#by
  • Andy_JS said:

    I think this is a Bundestag poll for Bavaria only:

    CSU 47%
    SPD 22%
    Green 8%
    FDP 5%
    AfD 4%
    FW 3%
    Linke 2%
    Pirates 2%

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/laender.htm#by

    Yep, CSU are Bavaria-only.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Just caught up to the polling. Tories on 36 and UKIP on 12. Where are the Tory votes coming from? Just doesn't seem likely that this poll isn't an outlier. As Mike says though, if a polling company doesn't produce an outlier every 20 polls then there is something wrong.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    New Hampshire 2016 PPP

    •Rand Paul 20% {28%} [4%] (10%)
    •Chris Christie 19% {14%} [21%] (24%)
    •Jeb Bush 14% {7%} [11%] (15%)
    •Kelly Ayotte 12%
    •Ted Cruz 10%
    •Paul Ryan 7% {7%} [10%] (8%)
    •Marco Rubio 7% {25%} [14%] (12%)
    •Bobby Jindal 3% {1%}
    •Rick Santorum 2% {4%} [5%] (7%)
    •Someone else/Not sure 6% {11%} [10%] (2%)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    NH 2016 general

    •Hillary Clinton (D) 43%
    •Chris Christie (R) 39%
    •Hillary Clinton (D) 50%
    •Kelly Ayotte (R) 42%
    •Hillary Clinton (D) 49%
    •Jeb Bush (R) 40%
    •Hillary Clinton (D) 50%
    •Paul Ryan (R) 41%
    •Hillary Clinton (D) 51% (52%)
    •Rand Paul (R) 41% (41%)
    •Hillary Clinton (D) 50%
    •Ted Cruz (R) 38%
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Rasmussen 2016

    •Chris Christie (R) 39%
    •Joe Biden (D) 35%
    •Joe Biden (D) 44%
    •Rand Paul (R) 36%
    •Joe Biden (D) 44%
    •Marco Rubio (R) 34%
    •Joe Biden (D) 43%
    •Ted Cruz (R) 32%
  • Nice cartoon, Marf.

    I do think though that the full burka should be banned in some places - nudist beaches, for example. I mean, for all we know, it could be JackW fiddling away with himself under that lot.

    Perish the thought.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    "Tony Blair's daughter Kathryn held at gunpoint in attempted robbery":

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24157161
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    edited September 2013

    Andy_JS said:

    I think this is a Bundestag poll for Bavaria only:

    CSU 47%
    SPD 22%
    Green 8%
    FDP 5%
    AfD 4%
    FW 3%
    Linke 2%
    Pirates 2%

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/laender.htm#by

    Yep, CSU are Bavaria-only.
    I thought it was a regional Parliament poll to begin with but since they just had that election a few days ago it seemed unlikely.
  • C4 News laying into Farage right now.

    I thought he came out of it fine - airily waving away the concerns of "left-wing teachers" who wanted to "stop poppy wearing".....I doubt its lost him a single vote.....pity for him that those inclined to his world view don't watch C4 news in great numbers....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited September 2013
    Max PB 23% of voters voted LD in 2010, in this poll that is down to 10% but Labour only up 7 to 36%, clearly Cameron is now winning some 2010 LDs and not just Miliband
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited September 2013
    A nurses uniform when on duty in the ward should be scrubs.. no veils.. if you don't want to buy into that then get another job..
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Crosby has been busy again.

    LOL
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Clearly Cameron is now winning some 2010 LDs and not just Miliband

    Lib Dem voters NEVER switch to the tories. They either vote Lib dem or switch to labour. Isn't that one of PB's rules?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    edited September 2013

    This might be a good time for a second-hand anecdote.

    A friend of mine was a duty solicitor in a northern town. He got called into the local nick aearly in the morning, to be greeted with a custody sergeant who was in hysterics. The story, if it is to be believed, is as follows:

    A farmer had got drunk in town. As he meandered home past the local hospital, he wandered in, took a white gown off a peg and went into an all-women ward. He was on his fourth or fifth intimate examination before a woman wondered 1) Why such examinations were being done early in the morning, 2) why the doctor's breath smelt of alcohol, and 3) why he was wearing muddy wellies.

    No idea if the story is true ...

    While I haven't heard this one before, and it's a while since I worked in a hospital there are always a few anecdotes like this floating about. Not, of course, about one's own hospital!

    PS. Marf's cartoon appears to show a mixed sex ward. Are there still any inte NHS, or only in the Torygraphs imagination?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Very nice marf.

    ;)
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Sweet, Marf. Actually I thought I saw Mr Tyndall under the niqab showing how really libertarian he is. LOL
  • MikeK said:

    Sweet, Marf. Actually I thought I saw Mr Tyndall under the niqab showing how really libertarian he is. LOL

    I was contemplating getting involved with my local UKIP branch, as I want an alternative to Tory, Labour and Lib Dem.

    You've put me off.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Taffys a few of the 23% the LDs got were not just disaffected leftwingers who have returned to Labour but undoubtedly a few who voted for Blair, disliked Brown but were unsure about Cameron, some of those could now have moved to the Cameron camp.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    HYUFD said:

    Taffys a few of the 23% the LDs got were not just disaffected leftwingers who have returned to Labour but undoubtedly a few who voted for Blair, disliked Brown but were unsure about Cameron, some of those could now have moved to the Cameron camp.

    Lord Ashcroft's poll of the Con/LD marginals had 53 2010 voters moving from LD to Con but 78 moving from Conservative to LD .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited September 2013
    MarkSenior Maybe, but national polls show a net Tory gain from LDs, and the picture may be different in Tory Labour marginals in terms of Tory LD movement
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    As a full time cyclist & walker I have worries about drivers, of any sex, covering their faces. Yes, I have seen it happen, but, no, I haven't yet seen anyone with a covered face using a mobile while driving.
  • SeanT said:

    Another remarkable Syria report by the dauntless Antony Loyd. Frightening.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/middleeast/article3873007.ece

    We may need to intervene in Syria: to help Assad. These ISIS guys have to lose. How did we end up getting this so WRONG that we nearly assisted our sworn enemies?


    Didn't EdM get this one right, SeanT, by asking for restraint, evidence and UN backing, as appropriate?

    Just asking.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    HYUFD said:

    MarkSenior Maybe, but national polls show a net Tory gain from LDs, and the picture may be different in Tory Labour marginals in terms of Tory LD movement

    Lord Ashcroft's poll of Con/Lab marginals had 82 2010 LD voters moving to Conservative and 62 the other way , the net 20 being dwarved by 247 Con to UKIP , a net 224 LD to Labour and a net 118 Con to Labour

  • MikeK said:

    Sweet, Marf. Actually I thought I saw Mr Tyndall under the niqab showing how really libertarian he is. LOL

    I was contemplating getting involved with my local UKIP branch, as I want an alternative to Tory, Labour and Lib Dem.

    You've put me off.
    Not all UKIP branches are like MikeK. I would ask that you at least find out what your local branch is like.

    I still get the impression that the leadership of the party are broadly libertarian and small state believers. As I say the announcement today about the change in policy on banning the burqa is very welcome. Trouble is I think they have seen the recent jump in membership off the back of the gay marriage issue as just too good to miss and so have put popularity first in this case. I know some feel that is sensible even if they do not agree with the underlying view. I just feel it is something that will very quickly come back to bite them unless they are able to manage a transition back to a more laisse faire attitude very carefully.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    edited September 2013
    "Greece: On the edge

    The mood in the Greek capital is at the boiling point":


    http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21586574-mood-greek-capital-boiling-point-edge
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    SeanT said:

    Another remarkable Syria report by the dauntless Antony Loyd. Frightening.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/middleeast/article3873007.ece

    We may need to intervene in Syria: to help Assad. These ISIS guys have to lose. How did we end up getting this so WRONG that we nearly assisted our sworn enemies?

    To be fair it was hard to spot. There were several Christians they didn't behead.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    MarkSenior But still a net move to the Tories, showing the yougov figure today is not implausible
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Current University Hospitals Leicester Dress code bans facial veils (among other things such obscene tattoos on visible areas). Religious headscarves are permitted in colours that match uniform provided that they are tucked into the uniform top so cannot dangle onto patients. Veiled patients are not unusual.

    Surgical masks are worn in operating theatres of course, but not in public areas.

    Anecdotal, I know, but I've spent a fair bit of time in Leicester's hospitals over the last few years, what with having elderly parents, and a few serious illnesses and injuries within my clan. I have to report that I have never seen a member of staff in a full veil. I don't know if Leicester NHS Trusts have any regulations on it, but, if you were going to see a veiled nurse, you think you'd find one in as diverse a city as Leicester.

  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited September 2013
    I was about three yards from those headers riding their bikes around Britain earlier. Me, the dog and my boy. Alone on a pavement. First the police bikes came screaming past, then the cars, then the cyclists. Geeeez, they go at a fair old lick. And boy do they ride close to one another? I knew they were coming and popped down my Mam in Laws to watch them shoot past but I was caught a bit unawares on a nasty, tight piece of road, with no railing - away from all the good vantage points. I was genuinely surprised at how fast they go and how dead I would've been, along with my dog and child, if one of those nutters clipped someone elses bike and flipped about 33 of the cyclists into us.

    It was a little bit scary.

    I was also impressed by one cyclist talking into the car window to his team, at about 50mph, an inch away from the car. Cool as you like.

    And there's me thinking rugby is a tough sport. Surely those cyclists risk death if they fall off? Surely.

    50mph being an exaggeration, but if felt like it!
  • Current University Hospitals Leicester Dress code bans facial veils (among other things such obscene tattoos on visible areas). Religious headscarves are permitted in colours that match uniform provided that they are tucked into the uniform top so cannot dangle onto patients. Veiled patients are not unusual.

    Surgical masks are worn in operating theatres of course, but not in public areas.



    Anecdotal, I know, but I've spent a fair bit of time in Leicester's hospitals over the last few years, what with having elderly parents, and a few serious illnesses and injuries within my clan. I have to report that I have never seen a member of staff in a full veil. I don't know if Leicester NHS Trusts have any regulations on it, but, if you were going to see a veiled nurse, you think you'd find one in as diverse a city as Leicester.

    Surely a hospital dress code is about hygiene?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Hygiene is a major factor, but so is a professional appearance.

    The same rules apply to medical students etc.


    Current University Hospitals Leicester Dress code bans facial veils (among other things such obscene tattoos on visible areas). Religious headscarves are permitted in colours that match uniform provided that they are tucked into the uniform top so cannot dangle onto patients. Veiled patients are not unusual.

    Surgical masks are worn in operating theatres of course, but not in public areas.



    Anecdotal, I know, but I've spent a fair bit of time in Leicester's hospitals over the last few years, what with having elderly parents, and a few serious illnesses and injuries within my clan. I have to report that I have never seen a member of staff in a full veil. I don't know if Leicester NHS Trusts have any regulations on it, but, if you were going to see a veiled nurse, you think you'd find one in as diverse a city as Leicester.

    Surely a hospital dress code is about hygiene?
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited September 2013
    SeanT said:

    Thursday Night PB Quiz.

    How many of these drugs have pb-ers done?

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

    I've done 14 out of 20, including the top 8. Can any pb-er beat that?

    Nice work. I've done 11, perhaps 12, but I don't know what Buprenorphine is (does Tramadol come under that).

    Only five of the top eight though. No crack, or smack or crystal meth for me. I was a social druggy, not a lifestyle one like your good self.

    And I'd be impressed if someone has done none of them. Now that would be far out.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited September 2013

    MikeK said:

    Sweet, Marf. Actually I thought I saw Mr Tyndall under the niqab showing how really libertarian he is. LOL

    I was contemplating getting involved with my local UKIP branch, as I want an alternative to Tory, Labour and Lib Dem.

    You've put me off.
    I cannot for the life of me fathom how little old me put you off going to your local branch, unless you yourself have a reason to want women and others in full body burqas and niqabs swanning around your local high street.

    Tyndall is right in one respect in that UKIP represents various shades of opinion and thats healthy. We are not a party of automations or robots; our councillors have no whip telling them what to say, unlike the Lab/Lib/Cons that are always made to toe the current line, even if it's against their own philosophy.

    So have a go, put your dainty toe in UKIP waters, you'll end up feeling refreshed.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    just three.

    How I miss smoking tobacco! but it really is rather stupid.

    I did have a week sniffing glue for a toxicology practical once, the department was trying to devise a breathalyser for glue sniffers. It gave me a stinker of a headache all week. Not much fun at all>
    SeanT said:

    Thursday Night PB Quiz.

    How many of these drugs have pb-ers done?

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

    I've done 14 out of 20, including the top 8. Can any pb-er beat that?

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Buprenorphine is Temgesic. It is a narcotic given for pail relief under the tongue, and gives an injection like effect. It was a prescription drug originally, but became a controlled drug in the 90's because of abuse.
    SeanT said:

    Fenster said:

    SeanT said:

    Thursday Night PB Quiz.

    How many of these drugs have pb-ers done?

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

    I've done 14 out of 20, including the top 8. Can any pb-er beat that?

    Nice work. I've done 11, perhaps 12, but I don't know what Buprenorphine is (does Tramadol come under that).

    Only five of the top eight though. No crack, or smack or crystal meth for me. I was a social druggy, not a lifestyle one like your good self!
    I think (I haven't googled) that Buprenorphine is the toad-drug. Tramadol is an opoid - I did it last year, inadvertently, in Thailand (thinking it was a humble version of paracetamol). Exquisite, but dangerous.
  • SeanT said:

    Thursday Night PB Quiz.

    How many of these drugs have pb-ers done?

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

    I've done 14 out of 20, including the top 8. Can any pb-er beat that?

    I'm staid and boring. Only one (the obvious one), and I got spiked with an E once, so make that 1.5.

    However, I was more or less addicted to Codeine for a good while, which was only a marginally more pleasant experience than the pain. I guess it was an addiction as it was blooming hard to stop taking it once the pain had stopped, and I felt both elated (no more pain) and awful (I wanted some Codeine).

    Strange times ...
  • Fenster said:

    SeanT said:

    Thursday Night PB Quiz.

    How many of these drugs have pb-ers done?

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

    I've done 14 out of 20, including the top 8. Can any pb-er beat that?

    Nice work. I've done 11, perhaps 12, but I don't know what Buprenorphine is (does Tramadol come under that).

    Only five of the top eight though. No crack, or smack or crystal meth for me. I was a social druggy, not a lifestyle one like your good self.

    And I'd be impressed if someone has done none of them. Now that would be far out.
    I can proudly announce I have done none of them! Unless "mushrooms" includes the eating variety :)
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    @Richard_tyndall

    "I just feel it is something that will very quickly come back to bite them unless they are able to manage a transition back to a more laisse faire attitude very carefully."

    These are your lines, Richard, from an earler post talking about UKIP. Which proves to me that when you talk of UKIP as 'THEM' and not 'US', where your true feelings are. Give Cleggie a bell; he'll welcome you.
  • Fenster said:



    And I'd be impressed if someone has done none of them. Now that would be far out.

    The only one I've ever tried is alcohol and I've never liked it. You could probably fit my entire lifetime alcohol consumption into a small ice cream tub. :)
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    tim said:

    Best songs referring to the top twenty drugs

    Alcohol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p809FSIFas

    Good shout - I love Tom Waits.

    Incidentally, I love the "harm to others" bit: zero on mushrooms. Lol!

  • MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    Sweet, Marf. Actually I thought I saw Mr Tyndall under the niqab showing how really libertarian he is. LOL

    I was contemplating getting involved with my local UKIP branch, as I want an alternative to Tory, Labour and Lib Dem.

    You've put me off.
    I cannot for the life of me fathom how little old me put you off going to your local branch, unless you yourself have a reason to want women and others in full body burqas and niqabs swanning around your local high street.

    Tyndall is right in one respect in that UKIP represents various shades of opinion and thats healthy. We are not a party of automations or robots; our councillors have no whip telling them what to say, unlike the Lab/Lib/Cons that are always made to toe the current line, even if it's against their own philosophy.

    So have a go, put your dainty toe in UKIP waters, you'll end up feeling refreshed.
    I do have a very good reason to want "women and others in full body burqas and niqabs swanning around my local high street"

    Freedom.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Fenster said:

    SeanT said:

    Thursday Night PB Quiz.

    How many of these drugs have pb-ers done?

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

    I've done 14 out of 20, including the top 8. Can any pb-er beat that?

    Nice work. I've done 11, perhaps 12, but I don't know what Buprenorphine is (does Tramadol come under that).

    Only five of the top eight though. No crack, or smack or crystal meth for me. I was a social druggy, not a lifestyle one like your good self.

    And I'd be impressed if someone has done none of them. Now that would be far out.
    I can proudly announce I have done none of them! Unless "mushrooms" includes the eating variety :)
    That is truly amazing. And you seem such a good laugh too. If you fancy a weird night get some LSD into you and wander around a casino or some place with flashing lights. It is epiphanic.

    Not for the faint hearted though!

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited September 2013

    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    Sweet, Marf. Actually I thought I saw Mr Tyndall under the niqab showing how really libertarian he is. LOL

    I was contemplating getting involved with my local UKIP branch, as I want an alternative to Tory, Labour and Lib Dem.

    You've put me off.
    I cannot for the life of me fathom how little old me put you off going to your local branch, unless you yourself have a reason to want women and others in full body burqas and niqabs swanning around your local high street.

    Tyndall is right in one respect in that UKIP represents various shades of opinion and thats healthy. We are not a party of automations or robots; our councillors have no whip telling them what to say, unlike the Lab/Lib/Cons that are always made to toe the current line, even if it's against their own philosophy.

    So have a go, put your dainty toe in UKIP waters, you'll end up feeling refreshed.
    I do have a very good reason to want "women and others in full body burqas and niqabs swanning around my local high street"

    Freedom.
    No, Twisted. That way lies the road to slavery. You have a funny idea of freedom, I suppose you also support female genital mutilation in the name of freedom?
  • Fenster said:

    Fenster said:

    SeanT said:

    Thursday Night PB Quiz.

    How many of these drugs have pb-ers done?

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

    I've done 14 out of 20, including the top 8. Can any pb-er beat that?

    Nice work. I've done 11, perhaps 12, but I don't know what Buprenorphine is (does Tramadol come under that).

    Only five of the top eight though. No crack, or smack or crystal meth for me. I was a social druggy, not a lifestyle one like your good self.

    And I'd be impressed if someone has done none of them. Now that would be far out.
    I can proudly announce I have done none of them! Unless "mushrooms" includes the eating variety :)
    That is truly amazing. And you seem such a good laugh too. If you fancy a weird night get some LSD into you and wander around a casino or some place with flashing lights. It is epiphanic.

    Not for the faint hearted though!

    If there is one drug I wouldn't mind trying for, ah, "experimental" purposes, it would have to be DMT or ayahuasca.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited September 2013
    Four! One was on prescription though it went down OK with a few beers.
    SeanT said:

    Thursday Night PB Quiz.

    How many of these drugs have pb-ers done?

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

    I've done 14 out of 20, including the top 8. Can any pb-er beat that?

  • TimT2TimT2 Posts: 45
    @tim re top ten songs about drugs. Reminds me of this ten drugs not to do while driving:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ineCyWAOvqA
  • new thread
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    SeanT said:

    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    Sweet, Marf. Actually I thought I saw Mr Tyndall under the niqab showing how really libertarian he is. LOL

    I was contemplating getting involved with my local UKIP branch, as I want an alternative to Tory, Labour and Lib Dem.

    You've put me off.
    I cannot for the life of me fathom how little old me put you off going to your local branch, unless you yourself have a reason to want women and others in full body burqas and niqabs swanning around your local high street.

    Tyndall is right in one respect in that UKIP represents various shades of opinion and thats healthy. We are not a party of automations or robots; our councillors have no whip telling them what to say, unlike the Lab/Lib/Cons that are always made to toe the current line, even if it's against their own philosophy.

    So have a go, put your dainty toe in UKIP waters, you'll end up feeling refreshed.
    I do have a very good reason to want "women and others in full body burqas and niqabs swanning around my local high street"

    Freedom.
    Freedom for women to be enslaved like medieval chattels, but much, much worse. Centuries of western feminism erased in a day. Well done.

    Laydeez and gennulmem, here is UKIP's and TwistedFireStopper's version of Freedom:


    http://wearburqaday.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/burqa4.jpg
    Please not UKIP SeanT
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Andy_JS said:

    "Tony Blair's daughter Kathryn held at gunpoint in attempted robbery":

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24157161

    Few more incidents like that and maybe something will be done about inner-city crime other than building a wall of CCTV around the estates to keep it penned in the estates.

  • MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    Sweet, Marf. Actually I thought I saw Mr Tyndall under the niqab showing how really libertarian he is. LOL

    I was contemplating getting involved with my local UKIP branch, as I want an alternative to Tory, Labour and Lib Dem.

    You've put me off.
    I cannot for the life of me fathom how little old me put you off going to your local branch, unless you yourself have a reason to want women and others in full body burqas and niqabs swanning around your local high street.

    Tyndall is right in one respect in that UKIP represents various shades of opinion and thats healthy. We are not a party of automations or robots; our councillors have no whip telling them what to say, unlike the Lab/Lib/Cons that are always made to toe the current line, even if it's against their own philosophy.

    So have a go, put your dainty toe in UKIP waters, you'll end up feeling refreshed.
    I do have a very good reason to want "women and others in full body burqas and niqabs swanning around my local high street"

    Freedom.
    No, Twisted. That way lies the road to slavery. You have a funny idea of freedom, I suppose you also support genital mutilation in the name of freedom?

    You would suppose incorrectly, obviously.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    edited September 2013
    Fenster said:



    How many of these drugs have pb-ers done?

    And I'd be impressed if someone has done none of them. Now that would be far out.

    Only alcohol, and I think max was 3 glasses of wine. I occasionally wonder if I've missed anything. Another glass and I might have become a Daily Telegraph columnist, or something. Next life!

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Nice cartoon, Marf.

    I do think though that the full burka should be banned in some places - nudist beaches, for example. I mean, for all we know, it could be JackW fiddling away with himself under that lot

    Perish the thought.

    As an aside, the full burqa is not a religious item (at least not required by the Qu'ran).

    It was very very rare (mainly worn by whack jobs in the desert) until the 19th century, when the Brits occupied Egypt. Being good Liberals they promptly banned the burqa as representing the subjugation of women. Naturally, this lead to nationalists adopting the burqa as a symbol of rejection of Western values...

    It's this history that makes me so nervous about permitting it in the UK. It is, very simply, an expression of 'apartness' and a rejection of everything out society stands for.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    SeanT said:

    Thursday Night PB Quiz.

    How many of these drugs have pb-ers done?

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

    I've done 14 out of 20, including the top 8. Can any pb-er beat that?

    I've done most of those (apart from 3 whose name i don't recognize so i might have done them under a different name) but most of them only once so not quite the same.

    Adrenaline was always my fave.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Fenster said:

    SeanT said:

    Thursday Night PB Quiz.

    How many of these drugs have pb-ers done?

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

    I've done 14 out of 20, including the top 8. Can any pb-er beat that?

    Nice work. I've done 11, perhaps 12, but I don't know what Buprenorphine is (does Tramadol come under that).

    Only five of the top eight though. No crack, or smack or crystal meth for me. I was a social druggy, not a lifestyle one like your good self.

    And I'd be impressed if someone has done none of them. Now that would be far out.
    Tramadol is good enough - they are both morphine-derivatives
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    Sweet, Marf. Actually I thought I saw Mr Tyndall under the niqab showing how really libertarian he is. LOL

    I was contemplating getting involved with my local UKIP branch, as I want an alternative to Tory, Labour and Lib Dem.

    You've put me off.
    I cannot for the life of me fathom how little old me put you off going to your local branch, unless you yourself have a reason to want women and others in full body burqas and niqabs swanning around your local high street.

    Tyndall is right in one respect in that UKIP represents various shades of opinion and thats healthy. We are not a party of automations or robots; our councillors have no whip telling them what to say, unlike the Lab/Lib/Cons that are always made to toe the current line, even if it's against their own philosophy.

    So have a go, put your dainty toe in UKIP waters, you'll end up feeling refreshed.
    I do have a very good reason to want "women and others in full body burqas and niqabs swanning around my local high street"

    Freedom.
    The libertarian position would be to ban them completely. I could explain why but i won't till one of the big papers does it first.

    I'm not a libertarian so I wouldn't ban them completely personally but they make a good issue for arguing over the principle that should apply when considering the rights and wrongs of restricting freedom when it comes to clothing, in particular (imo) that it should be considered on a case by case basis dependent on context i.e. court rooms.

    Also useful for trying to force multicultists to state a single principle explicitly rather thanlet them have one principle in theory but in reality two because they ignore it when it conflicts with the multicult e.g. FGM, gender-based abortion etc.
This discussion has been closed.