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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The November 6th US Midterms – where we are and what might hap

SystemSystem Posts: 11,009
edited October 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The November 6th US Midterms – where we are and what might happen

The main elections on November 6th  are for 435 seats in the House of Representatives, 35 of the 100 seats in the Senate, 36 out of 50 state/district Governors, and 3 out of 5 territory Governors. This is an attempt to summarise the predictors. The following figures were taken between 11pm BST October 27th and 3:30am BST (2:30am GMT) October 28th 2018.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,635
    Whee! I'm famous!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    A legend in your own lunchtime.... ;-)
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,635

    A legend in your own lunchtime.... ;-)

    Indeed... :)
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    "I am a statistician of the old-school, based in the frequentist and mathematical traditions on limited samples."

    You're an outlier !
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    "I am a statistician of the old-school, based in the frequentist and mathematical traditions on limited samples."

    You're an outlier !

    He could get cross over a comment like that.....
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,635

    "I am a statistician of the old-school, based in the frequentist and mathematical traditions on limited samples."

    You're an outlier !

    He could get cross over a comment like that.....
    Don't be mean... :)
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    Superb piece of work. Many thanks.

    The odds for a Dem majority in the Senate are appalling, especially if the 2 "independents" are also not counted as seems to be the case (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016). Take those 2 out and no majority looks attractive, if a tad optimistic from a Dem point of view.

    In the House Ladbrokes odds for a Dem majority look pretty reasonable but their spread bet on 226.5 does not.

    All in my personal opinion of course.
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited October 2018
    More chaos at Paddington as all services cancelled again due to overhead wire damage. No services at all to Heathrow or as far as Reading.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/paddington-station-delays-all-trains-to-and-from-major-transport-hub-cancelled-following-overhead-a3973891.html

    Dems win the House Republicans retain the senate - but will we have services at Paddington disrupted again before 6 November.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,635
    DavidL said:

    Superb piece of work. Many thanks.

    The odds for a Dem majority in the Senate are appalling, especially if the 2 "independents" are also not counted as seems to be the case (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016). Take those 2 out and no majority looks attractive, if a tad optimistic from a Dem point of view.

    In the House Ladbrokes odds for a Dem majority look pretty reasonable but their spread bet on 226.5 does not.

    All in my personal opinion of course.

    You're welcome.

    It is relatively easy to get historical poll data, but historical info about modellers, academics, etc has to be digged out and historical betting odds are a nightmare: you have to pay or register as an academic. It's even worse when trying to construct the full book at a given moment, since sites like Oddschecker don't necessarily sample Con at the same time as Lab at the same time as Lib, etc. I've criticised PB in the past for not focussing on upcoming elections, but it's better to light a candle than curse the dark so I thought I'd have a go. I'll try to do a matching article next weekend, so then we'll have two snapshots and can try to discern trends.
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    DavidL said:


    The odds for a Dem majority in the Senate are appalling, especially if the 2 "independents" are also not counted as seems to be the case (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Political parties here are not like political parties in the UK, they are much more coalitions of diverse interests, much less ideological and much less hierarchical, and "membership" is purely by self-selection. In the UK to join a political party I had to apply, be accepted and pay an annual fee. Here all I had to do was tick a box when registering to vote.

    In the UK, parties control their nomination processes jealously: usually only paid-up members can vote on who to adopt as a candidate, and often you need to be "approved" by the party before you can even be considered. Most places in the US, anyone can run in a primary under whichever ticket they chose. Sometimes that can result in weird mismatches, such as the former Sheriff of Milwaukee, David Clarke, who was a far-right Trump supporter but ran as a Democrat.

    There is little in the way of party discipline in the British sense. There are Whips in Congress and party caucuses (like the PLP, 1922 Cttee etc). Voting against the party line on grounds of principle is accepted and respected. No-one ever gets suspended from a caucus or loses the party nomination for doing so (the primary system means everyone is subject to compulsory re-selection anyway) but parties can sanction persistent rebels by cutting off funding. Fund-raising is probably the most powerful way the parties have of "controlling" their candidates.

    There is little formal ideology: there are no party manifestos. Parties do adopt a "platform" at their conventions (national, state, local) but these are usually just general statements of principles and no-one feels bound by them. They are pretty universally forgotten as soon as they are adopted.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Thanks Viewcode. Useful summary of things.
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    "I am a statistician of the old-school, based in the frequentist and mathematical traditions on limited samples."

    You're an outlier !

    Never to be preceded by 'out and'.

    Good, meaty bit of work VC.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,635
    @rottenborough , @Theuniondivvie

    Thank you both
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Perhaps rather controversially, I do wonder whether it would be better for Dems not to win the House and Senate. They would almost certainly then try and impeach Trump, which, much as I pray for the day we see the back of him, would I fear cause quite considerable political violence and feed the very paranoia about Deep State that is already getting out of hand.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    The evidence seems to suggest the Democrats will gain the House but the GOP will keep the Senate bar a dramatic event in the final 10 days of the campaign
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957

    Perhaps rather controversially, I do wonder whether it would be better for Dems not to win the House and Senate. They would almost certainly then try and impeach Trump, which, much as I pray for the day we see the back of him, would I fear cause quite considerable political violence and feed the very paranoia about Deep State that is already getting out of hand.

    Indeed as the GOP discovered after they won both the House and Senate in 1994 they ended up losing both the 1996 presidential election and losing seats in the 1998 midterms as they pushed too hard to impeach Bill Clinton
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    DavidL said:

    Superb piece of work. Many thanks.

    The odds for a Dem majority in the Senate are appalling, especially if the 2 "independents" are also not counted as seems to be the case (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Same happened here, didn't it, or am I wrong in thinking Ken Clarke was not actually a party member during one of his leadership bids?
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    "I am a statistician of the old-school, based in the frequentist and mathematical traditions on limited samples."

    You're an outlier !

    Sorry to use the B word here, but I mean you are not a ....

    ... Bayesian.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,971
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Nice work, Mr. Viewcode.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,635

    "I am a statistician of the old-school, based in the frequentist and mathematical traditions on limited samples."

    You're an outlier !

    Sorry to use the B word here, but I mean you are not a ....

    ... Bayesian.
    Every frequentist becomes a Bayesian over time (which is ironic). You update your assumptions as new data comes in, and where else does a Bayesian prior come from, if not from a frequentist?
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,635

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Nice work, Mr. Viewcode.

    Thank you
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    Perhaps rather controversially, I do wonder whether it would be better for Dems not to win the House and Senate. They would almost certainly then try and impeach Trump, which, much as I pray for the day we see the back of him, would I fear cause quite considerable political violence and feed the very paranoia about Deep State that is already getting out of hand.

    If the Republicans end up in control of both Houses, they will feel honour bound to try and eliminate the Affordable Care Act, which would be an utter disaster for Trump.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    Deplorable.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,122
    rcs1000 said:

    Perhaps rather controversially, I do wonder whether it would be better for Dems not to win the House and Senate. They would almost certainly then try and impeach Trump, which, much as I pray for the day we see the back of him, would I fear cause quite considerable political violence and feed the very paranoia about Deep State that is already getting out of hand.

    If the Republicans end up in control of both Houses, they will feel honour bound to try and eliminate the Affordable Care Act, which would be an utter disaster for Trump.
    So you're saying the Dems should look to concede supermajorities in the House and the Senate?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    HYUFD said:
    If more people vote Dem, they’ll win more seats? Who’d have thunk it. :p
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,122
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    If more people vote Dem, they’ll win more seats? Who’d have thunk it. :p
    Didn't work in 2016.
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    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    On that baisis, the fact that political incontinent Trump actually became the Rep candidate must mean that the other GOP candidates were really, really awful.
    Which they were of course.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Hessen Landtag election first exit polls

    CDU 28
    SPD 20
    Greens 19.5
    AfD 12
    FDP 7.5
    Linke 6.5
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    'Twas a pleasure to publish this.
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    It appears at least one of the Pittsburgh victims (they were all over 50) was a 97 year old Holocaust survivor. Grim.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    Deplorable.
    As much as that comment got criticised at the time, events since - including the last week - have indicated she was correct.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    brendan16 said:

    More chaos at Paddington as all services cancelled again due to overhead wire damage. No services at all to Heathrow or as far as Reading.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/paddington-station-delays-all-trains-to-and-from-major-transport-hub-cancelled-following-overhead-a3973891.html

    It's always the overhead wires. 'Plastic sheeting caught in the overhead wires' is an excuse I've heard from AGA more than once as the train crawls through Stratford. One wonders if diesel trains are such a bad thing.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    It appears at least one of the Pittsburgh victims (they were all over 50) was a 97 year old Holocaust survivor. Grim.

    Heard earlier that 3 of them were Holocaust survivors. Very grim indeed.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    If more people vote Dem, they’ll win more seats? Who’d have thunk it. :p
    Didn't work in 2016.
    Hillary won the popular vote by just 2% then. The Democrats lead the generic House race now by about 7-9% in most polls
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    Deplorable.
    As much as that comment got criticised at the time, events since - including the last week - have indicated she was correct.
    The Pittsburgh killer was a neo Nazi who had even disowned Trump as 'a globalist and not a nationalist' and had refused to vote for him in 2016. He was more David Duke than Trump though the mail bomber last week was likely a Trump supporter but that had no injuries

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7601226/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooter-trump-antisemitic/
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    Hessen Landtag election first exit polls

    CDU 28
    SPD 20
    Greens 19.5
    AfD 12
    FDP 7.5
    Linke 6.5

    The last Forschungruppe Whalen poll almost totally accurate if confirmed (Linke slightly overstated). Will the CDU-Green coalition still have a majority?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957

    Hessen Landtag election first exit polls

    CDU 28
    SPD 20
    Greens 19.5
    AfD 12
    FDP 7.5
    Linke 6.5

    Looks like the SPD have pipped the Greens for second then despite all the hype of the Greens beforehand. The CDU is down but will have its pick of whether to work with the Greens again or the SPD, CDU+AfD is more than SPD + Greens on those numbers but the CDU has refused to work with the AfD.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,122
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    Deplorable.
    As much as that comment got criticised at the time, events since - including the last week - have indicated she was correct.
    The Pittsburgh killer was a neo Nazi who had even disowned Trump as 'a globalist and not a nationalist' and had refused to vote for him in 2016. He was more David Duke than Trump though the mail bomber last week was likely a Trump supporter but that had no injuries

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7601226/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooter-trump-antisemitic/
    I'm not sure saying the mail bomber was stupid and incompetent as well as malevolent is exactly a great advert for Trump supporters...
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    edited October 2018
    In less-reported news, a man from Utah has bee arrested for sending substances related to ricin (perhaps just beans) to Trump and other US officials:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/03/us/pentagon-ricin-utah.html

    Comment 2
    1: it's odd how this has gained less traction than the bombs to the Dems;
    2: the US postal service appear to be very good and fast at helping track who sent mail.

    Edit: or maybe the USPS doesn't have to be good; allegedly some of the letters had his return address!
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ricin-charges-trump-1.4850715
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    51 state/district governors?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    JohnO said:

    Hessen Landtag election first exit polls

    CDU 28
    SPD 20
    Greens 19.5
    AfD 12
    FDP 7.5
    Linke 6.5

    The last Forschungruppe Whalen poll almost totally accurate if confirmed (Linke slightly overstated). Will the CDU-Green coalition still have a majority?
    second round of polls in, show CDU Greens one seat short of control, so needs to be a 3 party coalition

    CDU 27.4
    SPD 19,8
    Green 19,8
    AfD 12,8
    FDP 7.2
    Linke 6.6
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    HYUFD said:

    Hessen Landtag election first exit polls

    CDU 28
    SPD 20
    Greens 19.5
    AfD 12
    FDP 7.5
    Linke 6.5

    Looks like the SPD have pipped the Greens for second then despite all the hype of the Greens beforehand. The CDU is down but will have its pick of whether to work with the Greens again or the SPD, CDU+AfD is more than SPD + Greens on those numbers but the CDU has refused to work with the AfD.
    Re CDU + AfD, who would be the third member of the coalition? With only 40% of the vote, and with the SPD, Greens and Linke between them having more seats, it wouldn't really be a viable coalition. Indeed, the CDU can broadly choose between the Greens and the SPD.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    HYUFD said:

    Hessen Landtag election first exit polls

    CDU 28
    SPD 20
    Greens 19.5
    AfD 12
    FDP 7.5
    Linke 6.5

    Looks like the SPD have pipped the Greens for second then despite all the hype of the Greens beforehand. The CDU is down but will have its pick of whether to work with the Greens again or the SPD, CDU+AfD is more than SPD + Greens on those numbers but the CDU has refused to work with the AfD.
    not over yet

    Both CDU and SPD have lost 10.9% each of the votes
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    Deplorable.
    As much as that comment got criticised at the time, events since - including the last week - have indicated she was correct.
    The Pittsburgh killer was a neo Nazi who had even disowned Trump as 'a globalist and not a nationalist' and had refused to vote for him in 2016. He was more David Duke than Trump though the mail bomber last week was likely a Trump supporter but that had no injuries

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7601226/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooter-trump-antisemitic/
    David Duke supported Trump as I recall.

    “Voting for these people [Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz], voting against Donald Trump at this point is really treason to your heritage. I’m not saying I endorse everything about Trump, in fact I haven’t formally endorsed him. But I do support his candidacy, and I support voting for him as a strategic action. I hope he does everything we hope he will do.”

    — David Duke, on his radio program, Feb. 25, 2016
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    On that baisis, the fact that political incontinent Trump actually became the Rep candidate must mean that the other GOP candidates were really, really awful.
    Which they were of course.
    Do you remember Rubio in debate just repeating the same line over and over and over. It was embarrassing.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957

    JohnO said:

    Hessen Landtag election first exit polls

    CDU 28
    SPD 20
    Greens 19.5
    AfD 12
    FDP 7.5
    Linke 6.5

    The last Forschungruppe Whalen poll almost totally accurate if confirmed (Linke slightly overstated). Will the CDU-Green coalition still have a majority?
    second round of polls in, show CDU Greens one seat short of control, so needs to be a 3 party coalition

    CDU 27.4
    SPD 19,8
    Green 19,8
    AfD 12,8
    FDP 7.2
    Linke 6.6
    Add the FDP too and there is the majority
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    There's an American reality TV series called Top Hooker.

    Really.

    It's about fishing, obviously.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,122
    edited October 2018

    In less-reported news, a man from Utah has bee arrested for sending substances related to ricin (perhaps just beans) to Trump and other US officials:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/03/us/pentagon-ricin-utah.html

    Comment 2
    1: it's odd how this has gained less traction than the bombs to the Dems;
    2: the US postal service appear to be very good and fast at helping track who sent mail.

    Edit: or maybe the USPS doesn't have to be good; allegedly some of the letters had his return address!
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ricin-charges-trump-1.4850715

    There is a wonderful story, that I would love to think is true, that a mail bomber put his address on a mail bomb he sent. As he had put the wrong address on, the parcel was returned to him. Without realising what it was, he opened it and was killed by the resulting explosion.

    I suspect it's an urban myth, but what a superb example it would be of karma if true.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Hessen Landtag election first exit polls

    CDU 28
    SPD 20
    Greens 19.5
    AfD 12
    FDP 7.5
    Linke 6.5

    The last Forschungruppe Whalen poll almost totally accurate if confirmed (Linke slightly overstated). Will the CDU-Green coalition still have a majority?
    second round of polls in, show CDU Greens one seat short of control, so needs to be a 3 party coalition

    CDU 27.4
    SPD 19,8
    Green 19,8
    AfD 12,8
    FDP 7.2
    Linke 6.6
    Add the FDP too and there is the majority
    currently german TV forecasting only Jamaica will work as a coalition
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    Deplorable.
    As much as that comment got criticised at the time, events since - including the last week - have indicated she was correct.
    The Pittsburgh killer was a neo Nazi who had even disowned Trump as 'a globalist and not a nationalist' and had refused to vote for him in 2016. He was more David Duke than Trump though the mail bomber last week was likely a Trump supporter but that had no injuries

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7601226/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooter-trump-antisemitic/
    I was referring to the mail bomber.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    You can spend too much time commenting below the line?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544
    edited October 2018

    In less-reported news, a man from Utah has bee arrested for sending substances related to ricin (perhaps just beans) to Trump and other US officials:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/03/us/pentagon-ricin-utah.html

    Comment 2
    1: it's odd how this has gained less traction than the bombs to the Dems;
    2: the US postal service appear to be very good and fast at helping track who sent mail.

    Edit: or maybe the USPS doesn't have to be good; allegedly some of the letters had his return address!
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ricin-charges-trump-1.4850715

    Is he a Democrat supporter or just a freelance nutcase? His targets seem unusual for a Democrat.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    edited October 2018
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hessen Landtag election first exit polls

    CDU 28
    SPD 20
    Greens 19.5
    AfD 12
    FDP 7.5
    Linke 6.5

    Looks like the SPD have pipped the Greens for second then despite all the hype of the Greens beforehand. The CDU is down but will have its pick of whether to work with the Greens again or the SPD, CDU+AfD is more than SPD + Greens on those numbers but the CDU has refused to work with the AfD.
    Re CDU + AfD, who would be the third member of the coalition? With only 40% of the vote, and with the SPD, Greens and Linke between them having more seats, it wouldn't really be a viable coalition. Indeed, the CDU can broadly choose between the Greens and the SPD.
    It would require the FDP, the FDP being the CDU's traditional coalition partners but like the CDU they have ruled out any deals with the AfD. CDU+AfD+FDP is more than SPD+Greens+Linke in Hesse it seems. Indeed in Bavaria CSU+AfD was also more than the SPD + Greens (Linke won no seats in Bavaria).

    At the moment Merkel considers the AfD beyond the pale but if a more conservative CDU/CSU leader replaces her as Chancellor before the next election I wonder if they will be so quick to rule out any AfD deals and even if they still do so will any regional CDU/CSU premier break ranks eventually?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    Foxy said:

    In less-reported news, a man from Utah has bee arrested for sending substances related to ricin (perhaps just beans) to Trump and other US officials:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/03/us/pentagon-ricin-utah.html

    Comment 2
    1: it's odd how this has gained less traction than the bombs to the Dems;
    2: the US postal service appear to be very good and fast at helping track who sent mail.

    Edit: or maybe the USPS doesn't have to be good; allegedly some of the letters had his return address!
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ricin-charges-trump-1.4850715

    Is he a Democrat supporter or just a freelance nutcase? His targets seem unusual for a Democrat.
    I don't know: it feels like he was targeting the military chain of command - he's ex Navy.

    If it was just beans, without any treatment, then he's probably going to go away for a long time for something relatively harmless. But perhaps rightly so ...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Hessen Landtag election first exit polls

    CDU 28
    SPD 20
    Greens 19.5
    AfD 12
    FDP 7.5
    Linke 6.5

    The last Forschungruppe Whalen poll almost totally accurate if confirmed (Linke slightly overstated). Will the CDU-Green coalition still have a majority?
    second round of polls in, show CDU Greens one seat short of control, so needs to be a 3 party coalition

    CDU 27.4
    SPD 19,8
    Green 19,8
    AfD 12,8
    FDP 7.2
    Linke 6.6
    Add the FDP too and there is the majority
    currently german TV forecasting only Jamaica will work as a coalition
    CDU+SPD+FDP might too
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    Hessen Landtag election first exit polls

    CDU 28
    SPD 20
    Greens 19.5
    AfD 12
    FDP 7.5
    Linke 6.5

    The last Forschungruppe Whalen poll almost totally accurate if confirmed (Linke slightly overstated). Will the CDU-Green coalition still have a majority?
    second round of polls in, show CDU Greens one seat short of control, so needs to be a 3 party coalition

    CDU 27.4
    SPD 19,8
    Green 19,8
    AfD 12,8
    FDP 7.2
    Linke 6.6
    Add the FDP too and there is the majority
    currently german TV forecasting only Jamaica will work as a coalition
    CDU+SPD+FDP might too
    mathematically perhaps but I cant see the FDP wanting to chain themselves to a corpse
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    Deplorable.
    As much as that comment got criticised at the time, events since - including the last week - have indicated she was correct.
    The Pittsburgh killer was a neo Nazi who had even disowned Trump as 'a globalist and not a nationalist' and had refused to vote for him in 2016. He was more David Duke than Trump though the mail bomber last week was likely a Trump supporter but that had no injuries

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7601226/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooter-trump-antisemitic/
    David Duke supported Trump as I recall.

    “Voting for these people [Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz], voting against Donald Trump at this point is really treason to your heritage. I’m not saying I endorse everything about Trump, in fact I haven’t formally endorsed him. But I do support his candidacy, and I support voting for him as a strategic action. I hope he does everything we hope he will do.”

    — David Duke, on his radio program, Feb. 25, 2016
    They fell out after Trump eventually condemned white supremacists in Charlottesville

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/david-duke-trump-charlottesville_us_5991d6bae4b08a2472764798
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,135
    Off topic, apologies ... but Brexit.
    There's a intriguing thought in Charles Moore's latest Spectator notes about why May appears determined to keep the UK in the customs union. "It would be very interesting to know if she has given some private undertakings to the British motor industry."

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    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    On that baisis, the fact that political incontinent Trump actually became the Rep candidate must mean that the other GOP candidates were really, really awful.
    Which they were of course.
    Do you remember Rubio in debate just repeating the same line over and over and over. It was embarrassing.
    Yep.
    I was going to say he was only behind Perry for crapness, but then I started remembering the others. Is weakness in shallowness the opposite of strength in depth?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1056592374607024130

    The guy was one of those sent a pipe bomb last week iirc.

    Republicans should hang their heads in shame that they have let this divisive lunatic near the Whitehouse.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,635

    'Twas a pleasure to publish this.

    Thank you. I'll get another one in next weekend so we can compare the two snapshots: should help in establishing trends.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    On that baisis, the fact that political incontinent Trump actually became the Rep candidate must mean that the other GOP candidates were really, really awful.
    Which they were of course.
    Do you remember Rubio in debate just repeating the same line over and over and over. It was embarrassing.
    Yep.
    I was going to say he was only behind Perry for crapness, but then I started remembering the others. Is weakness in shallowness the opposite of strength in depth?
    Did decent GOP candidates hang back because everyone assumed HRC would win that year?

    Or is the GOP completely devoid of presidential material?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,971
    Mr. 1000, obviously. Rugby isn't very popular in the US.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    ydoethur said:

    In less-reported news, a man from Utah has bee arrested for sending substances related to ricin (perhaps just beans) to Trump and other US officials:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/03/us/pentagon-ricin-utah.html

    Comment 2
    1: it's odd how this has gained less traction than the bombs to the Dems;
    2: the US postal service appear to be very good and fast at helping track who sent mail.

    Edit: or maybe the USPS doesn't have to be good; allegedly some of the letters had his return address!
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ricin-charges-trump-1.4850715

    There is a wonderful story, that I would love to think is true, that a mail bomber put his address on a mail bomb he sent. As he had put the wrong address on, the parcel was returned to him. Without realising what it was, he opened it and was killed by the resulting explosion.

    I suspect it's an urban myth, but what a superb example it would be of karma if true.
    I heard a great one on a ?Podcast? a few months back. A retired bomb investigations officer met up at an informal meeting with ex-colleagues - a yearly occurrence. One mentioned a bombing they'd recently had, and the device had unusual design features. The retired man recognised the description as being similar to a device used by a man in the 1970s.

    In that case in the 1970s, a man had made a series of bombs. He had left one unaddressed on the kitchen table as he did something else, and his wife opened it, severely injuring her.

    The latest attempted bombing was by the same man, decades later.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,947
    Re Hesse. Important to note CDU- Grune and CDU-SPD are both only one seat short of a majority. Minor changes to the exit poll could have major implications.
    Maybe wait and see?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Greens lead amongst the higher educated:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1056602848878833664


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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    On that baisis, the fact that political incontinent Trump actually became the Rep candidate must mean that the other GOP candidates were really, really awful.
    Which they were of course.
    Do you remember Rubio in debate just repeating the same line over and over and over. It was embarrassing.
    Marco Rubio finished third in Iowa and became odds on favourite for the nomination.

    No bigger betting moment in recent history. I am ashamed that I only laid a portion of my bankroll on that ludicrous mis-price rather than the whole ducking lot.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I miss Cromwell.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Actually I tell a lie, Jeb Bush @ 10 after 5 primaries was probably more ridiculous. It genuinely scared me off the market as I couldn't work out what other people could possibly be thinking.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    Or this sad case:

    "After the hearing, detectives disclosed that Dyer, who will be sentenced next month, was caught when a blackmail letter giving details of his bombing campaign was left in a newsagent's photocopier.

    His deadlines were unusable because he muddled his dates up, and during the campaign investigators discovered that three bombs in a sorting office had not reached their destinations because too few stamps had been put on them."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1329223/Bungling-letter-bomber-put-on-too-few-stamps.html
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    On that baisis, the fact that political incontinent Trump actually became the Rep candidate must mean that the other GOP candidates were really, really awful.
    Which they were of course.
    Do you remember Rubio in debate just repeating the same line over and over and over. It was embarrassing.
    Yep.
    I was going to say he was only behind Perry for crapness, but then I started remembering the others. Is weakness in shallowness the opposite of strength in depth?
    Did decent GOP candidates hang back because everyone assumed HRC would win that year?

    Or is the GOP completely devoid of presidential material?
    No they all held back in 2012 as they assumed Obama would be re elected and all ran in 2016 from Christie to Jeb Bush to Rubio to Cruz to Kasich, just Trump also decided against a 2012 run and his message in 2016 was what GOP primary voters wanted to hear
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957

    Mr. 1000, obviously. Rugby isn't very popular in the US.

    American Football is not too dissimilar to rugby, indeed a number of New Zealanders are now playing in the NFL
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    On that baisis, the fact that political incontinent Trump actually became the Rep candidate must mean that the other GOP candidates were really, really awful.
    Which they were of course.
    Do you remember Rubio in debate just repeating the same line over and over and over. It was embarrassing.
    Marco Rubio finished third in Iowa and became odds on favourite for the nomination.

    No bigger betting moment in recent history. I am ashamed that I only laid a portion of my bankroll on that ludicrous mis-price rather than the whole ducking lot.
    I'll be forever grateful to the Betfair community for that, as someone who was laying Donald Trump massively at that point it allowed me some recovery.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    edited October 2018

    Greens lead amongst the higher educated:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1056602848878833664


    The Greens and FDP and Linke do better with graduates than the average Hesse voter on those figures, the CDU, SPD and AfD do worse, the AfD especially so
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    In less-reported news, a man from Utah has bee arrested for sending substances related to ricin (perhaps just beans) to Trump and other US officials:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/03/us/pentagon-ricin-utah.html

    Comment 2
    1: it's odd how this has gained less traction than the bombs to the Dems;
    2: the US postal service appear to be very good and fast at helping track who sent mail.

    Edit: or maybe the USPS doesn't have to be good; allegedly some of the letters had his return address!
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ricin-charges-trump-1.4850715

    Why is it odd? The date in your link is four weeks old; the ricin (or was it?) powder guy sent letters that sfaict went nowhere. The bombs to Dems man sent things that went bang to famous politicians and also targeted CNN where his bomb caused the studio to be evacuated during a live broadcast. It is hardly odd that one led to more headlines: try the thought experiment here, and you'd surely get the same result.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    (I have given up trying to work out how an "independent" came so close to being the Democratic nominee for President in 2016).

    Could it possibly be because the other Democratic candidate was appalling?
    On that baisis, the fact that political incontinent Trump actually became the Rep candidate must mean that the other GOP candidates were really, really awful.
    Which they were of course.
    Do you remember Rubio in debate just repeating the same line over and over and over. It was embarrassing.
    Yep.
    I was going to say he was only behind Perry for crapness, but then I started remembering the others. Is weakness in shallowness the opposite of strength in depth?
    Did decent GOP candidates hang back because everyone assumed HRC would win that year?

    Or is the GOP completely devoid of presidential material?
    There were no decent GOP candidates.

    Hilary was seen as a weak candidate, indeed I thought there was no way the GOP could lose with her as the candidate - right up until it was clear that Trump was going to be the nominee. At that point I thought there was no way the Dems could lose.

    I was wrong.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,135
    HYUFD said:

    Mr. 1000, obviously. Rugby isn't very popular in the US.

    American Football is not too dissimilar to rugby, indeed a number of New Zealanders are now playing in the NFL
    Yeah but do they have hookers?
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,635

    51 state/district governors?

    Damn, fair point. 50 state governors, one district governor (the Mayor of the District of Columbia). But the incumbent (Muriel Bowser) term lasts to 2019 and not up for election this year, so that's...OK? Any other bad numbers, point them out.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,304
    edited October 2018
    HYUFD said:

    Mr. 1000, obviously. Rugby isn't very popular in the US.

    American Football is not too dissimilar to rugby, indeed a number of New Zealanders are now playing in the NFL
    I dare you to say that at a rugby union club.

    They'd be embarrassed to play with all that protection.

    I suppose you could say American football is a lot like rugby league with their big girl's blouse fifth/sixth tackle rule.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. 1000, obviously. Rugby isn't very popular in the US.

    American Football is not too dissimilar to rugby, indeed a number of New Zealanders are now playing in the NFL
    I dare you to say that at a rugby union club.

    They'd be embarrassed to play with all that protection.

    I suppose you could say American football is a lot like rugby league with their big girl's blouse fifth/sixth tackle rule.
    Some have played in both league and union eg Jonathan Davies, ironic that the northern version of rugby has the most protection considering it is northerners who are supposed to be tough and southerners who are supposed to be softies
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. 1000, obviously. Rugby isn't very popular in the US.

    American Football is not too dissimilar to rugby, indeed a number of New Zealanders are now playing in the NFL
    Yeah but do they have hookers?
    Seems so
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malik_Hooker
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,135
    HYUFD said:

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. 1000, obviously. Rugby isn't very popular in the US.

    American Football is not too dissimilar to rugby, indeed a number of New Zealanders are now playing in the NFL
    Yeah but do they have hookers?
    Seems so
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malik_Hooker
    touché
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921

    In less-reported news, a man from Utah has bee arrested for sending substances related to ricin (perhaps just beans) to Trump and other US officials:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/03/us/pentagon-ricin-utah.html

    Comment 2
    1: it's odd how this has gained less traction than the bombs to the Dems;
    2: the US postal service appear to be very good and fast at helping track who sent mail.

    Edit: or maybe the USPS doesn't have to be good; allegedly some of the letters had his return address!
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ricin-charges-trump-1.4850715

    Why is it odd? The date in your link is four weeks old; the ricin (or was it?) powder guy sent letters that sfaict went nowhere. The bombs to Dems man sent things that went bang to famous politicians and also targeted CNN where his bomb caused the studio to be evacuated during a live broadcast. It is hardly odd that one led to more headlines: try the thought experiment here, and you'd surely get the same result.
    An unrelated point: did any of the idiot's bombs actually go bang?
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,804

    JohnO said:

    Hessen Landtag election first exit polls

    CDU 28
    SPD 20
    Greens 19.5
    AfD 12
    FDP 7.5
    Linke 6.5

    The last Forschungruppe Whalen poll almost totally accurate if confirmed (Linke slightly overstated). Will the CDU-Green coalition still have a majority?
    second round of polls in, show CDU Greens one seat short of control, so needs to be a 3 party coalition

    CDU 27.4
    SPD 19,8
    Green 19,8
    AfD 12,8
    FDP 7.2
    Linke 6.6
    Is this like the national elections, near proportional over qualifying level.

    In which case, with the sum above being 93.6%, close to 47% plus non aggression might do the job and Full Jamaica may not be needed. In order of possibility, the above could, in theory, work:

    CDU / Green with SPD assent
    CDU / SPD with Green assent
    SPD / Green / Linke with CDU assent

    None without problems, but all get round the FDP not being natural bedfellows with the centre left parties and the AfD not being potential bedfellows for anyone.
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    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    edited October 2018

    In less-reported news, a man from Utah has bee arrested for sending substances related to ricin (perhaps just beans) to Trump and other US officials:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/03/us/pentagon-ricin-utah.html

    Comment 2
    1: it's odd how this has gained less traction than the bombs to the Dems;
    2: the US postal service appear to be very good and fast at helping track who sent mail.

    Edit: or maybe the USPS doesn't have to be good; allegedly some of the letters had his return address!
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ricin-charges-trump-1.4850715

    Some, pehaps most, criminals are quite stupid. Did you see the story earlier in the week about the group of robbers that were told to come back later when the store would have more money, did so and were supprised to find the police wating for them?
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Pro_Rata said:

    JohnO said:

    Hessen Landtag election first exit polls

    CDU 28
    SPD 20
    Greens 19.5
    AfD 12
    FDP 7.5
    Linke 6.5

    The last Forschungruppe Whalen poll almost totally accurate if confirmed (Linke slightly overstated). Will the CDU-Green coalition still have a majority?
    second round of polls in, show CDU Greens one seat short of control, so needs to be a 3 party coalition

    CDU 27.4
    SPD 19,8
    Green 19,8
    AfD 12,8
    FDP 7.2
    Linke 6.6
    Is this like the national elections, near proportional over qualifying level.

    In which case, with the sum above being 93.6%, close to 47% plus non aggression might do the job and Full Jamaica may not be needed. In order of possibility, the above could, in theory, work:

    CDU / Green with SPD assent
    CDU / SPD with Green assent
    SPD / Green / Linke with CDU assent

    None without problems, but all get round the FDP not being natural bedfellows with the centre left parties and the AfD not being potential bedfellows for anyone.
    The FDP were in coalition with SPD 1969 - 1982 -ie Brandt and Schmidt Governments.
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    edited October 2018
    .
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    HYUFD said:

    Mr. 1000, obviously. Rugby isn't very popular in the US.

    American Football is not too dissimilar to rugby, indeed a number of New Zealanders are now playing in the NFL
    In the last year or so a couple of ex-pupils of mine have headed over the pond to try their hand at that version of football.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921

    In less-reported news, a man from Utah has bee arrested for sending substances related to ricin (perhaps just beans) to Trump and other US officials:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/03/us/pentagon-ricin-utah.html

    Comment 2
    1: it's odd how this has gained less traction than the bombs to the Dems;
    2: the US postal service appear to be very good and fast at helping track who sent mail.

    Edit: or maybe the USPS doesn't have to be good; allegedly some of the letters had his return address!
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ricin-charges-trump-1.4850715

    Some, pehaps most, criminals are quite stupid. Did you see the story earlier in the week about the group of robbers that were told to come back later when the store would have more money, did so and were supprised to find the police wating for them?
    Yeah, I saw that. I think Stephen Pile's Book of Heroic Failures has many such stories, including a bank robber who wrote his note on the back of a piece of paper that had his address on it ...
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,135
    Hard to beat the story of the burglar who smashed a shop window one cold night in Edinburgh and was traced by his footprints in the snow.
  • Options

    In less-reported news, a man from Utah has bee arrested for sending substances related to ricin (perhaps just beans) to Trump and other US officials:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/03/us/pentagon-ricin-utah.html

    Comment 2
    1: it's odd how this has gained less traction than the bombs to the Dems;
    2: the US postal service appear to be very good and fast at helping track who sent mail.

    Edit: or maybe the USPS doesn't have to be good; allegedly some of the letters had his return address!
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ricin-charges-trump-1.4850715

    Some, pehaps most, criminals are quite stupid. Did you see the story earlier in the week about the group of robbers that were told to come back later when the store would have more money, did so and were supprised to find the police wating for them?
    Yeah, I saw that. I think Stephen Pile's Book of Heroic Failures has many such stories, including a bank robber who wrote his note on the back of a piece of paper that had his address on it ...
    I went to see "King of Thieves" (a film about the Hatton Garden job) when it came out, and one of the main messages of the film was quite how stupid most of the thieves had been. They were described as 'analog thieves in a digital world' and had made no effort to hid themselves from the cameras: one even used his own car for part of it.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. 1000, obviously. Rugby isn't very popular in the US.

    American Football is not too dissimilar to rugby, indeed a number of New Zealanders are now playing in the NFL
    I dare you to say that at a rugby union club.

    They'd be embarrassed to play with all that protection.

    I suppose you could say American football is a lot like rugby league with their big girl's blouse fifth/sixth tackle rule.
    Proper Northeners play League.

    American Football involves head on tackling in a way that is quite dangerous without padding. It is not a game for softies.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,230
    HYUFD said:

    Greens lead amongst the higher educated:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1056602848878833664


    The Greens and FDP and Linke do better with graduates than the average Hesse voter on those figures, the CDU, SPD and AfD do worse, the AfD especially so
    When they desert Corbyn, perhaps our greens are in for a boost
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    In less-reported news, a man from Utah has bee arrested for sending substances related to ricin (perhaps just beans) to Trump and other US officials:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/03/us/pentagon-ricin-utah.html

    Comment 2
    1: it's odd how this has gained less traction than the bombs to the Dems;
    2: the US postal service appear to be very good and fast at helping track who sent mail.

    Edit: or maybe the USPS doesn't have to be good; allegedly some of the letters had his return address!
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ricin-charges-trump-1.4850715

    As I understood it he just sent threatening letters and beans but not actually any Ricin or any other toxic substance.

    So a big step down from previous Ricin letter campaigns.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I see Philip Green is managing the story well. He's now going with the "it's only a bit of banter" line now.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,832
    Evening all :)

    http://www.ard.de/home/ard/ARD_Startseite/21920/index.html

    The Hesse results close to the final polls but not quite the 28-20-20 split. AfD perhaps marginally stronger than the final polls but it's all fractions. The CDU-Green Coalition can continue with a tiny majority or we could have a CDU-SPD coalition. There don't seem to be many other options on the table - SDP/Green/FDP might work but I can't see it.
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    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    geoffw said:

    Hard to beat the story of the burglar who smashed a shop window one cold night in Edinburgh and was traced by his footprints in the snow.

    Not as good as the idiot in the old St James Centre in Edinburgh some years ago, who one evening when it had closed, after smuggling himself in, went and threw a brick at a jeweller's window and managed to knock himself out when it bounced back... .Trembler alarms in the window set off, police arrived, security staff surprised etc...
This discussion has been closed.