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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » We could be heading for crossover in the “UK to leave EU on Ma

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited November 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » We could be heading for crossover in the “UK to leave EU on Mar 29th 2019” betting

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    edited November 2018
    I can actually see how we don't exit next March now.

    Jo Johnson the patriot's patriot.
  • E pluribus unum time again
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2018
    3rd like the Lib ...thingies.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    edited November 2018
    Third. Properly third. Like the coming referendum.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    edited November 2018
    It's all developing very nicely.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    edited November 2018
    W.r.t. Trump. There is no official ceremony at Arlington. But it has become an unofficial tradition to visit on Veterans Day.
    Meanwhile, Michael Cohen has arrived unexpectedly in DC with his lawyer...http://kwbe.com/abc_politics/michael-cohen-president-trumps-former-personal-attorney-mysteriously-arrives-in-washington-dc-abcid36128860/
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    What's the Brexit court case in Scotland?

    I can find reference to an ECJ case being brought by Scots MPs, is this the one?
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,777
    Is anyone able link to a prominent internet argument made soon after the Brexit referendum which predicted that we would never actually leave because it was all too difficult and contradictory. I can't remember the source.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,542
    Jo Johnson's resignation removes any reason for Labour MPs to support a Conservative Brexit resolution. (Why would they if Tory MPs don't support it themselves?) The resolution is unlikely to pass without some Labour support.
  • dixiedean said:

    W.r.t. Trump. There is no official ceremony at Arlington. But it has become an unofficial tradition to visit on Veterans Day.
    Meanwhile, Michael Cohen has arrived unexpectedly in DC with his lawyer...http://kwbe.com/abc_politics/michael-cohen-president-trumps-former-personal-attorney-mysteriously-arrives-in-washington-dc-abcid36128860/

    Should we be surprised, wheb does trump does anything by tradition?
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    On topic, an Article 50 extension might make sense, depending on the nature and parliamentary viability of Tezza's deal. So I can at least see how it is possible that we don't leave in the early spring.
  • stjohn said:

    Is anyone able link to a prominent internet argument made soon after the Brexit referendum which predicted that we would never actually leave because it was all too difficult and contradictory. I can't remember the source.

    Do you mean this?

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/722391453599723520
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    edited November 2018
    stjohn said:

    Is anyone able link to a prominent internet argument made soon after the Brexit referendum which predicted that we would never actually leave because it was all too difficult and contradictory. I can't remember the source.

    I think I know the one you mean, but if I remember correctly it said that by resigning, Cameron had killed Brexit because his successor wouldn't be able to invoke Article 50 because they'd have to admit how damaging it would be.

    Found it:

    https://www.indy100.com/article/people-are-really-really-hoping-this-theory-about-david-cameron-and-brexit-is-true--bJhqBql0VZ
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,840
    +140.93 to leave on time/+103.28 Brexit delay less some premium charge in this one.
  • If Brexit is delayed except for the most technical of reasons I expect it won’t happen at all.

    I still firmly expect it to happen. Now might be a good time to ungreen myself on this market.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited November 2018

    twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1062102964058365953

    How are the government managing to fuck up this straight forward issue?
  • twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1062102964058365953

    How are the government managing to fuck up this straight forward issue?
    Mrs May is scared of losing Esther McVey, that's why.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,729
    It's a peculiar headline as well becuase it implies that other people introduce budgets that are voted down, which when last I checked wasn't the case either.

    (You are right about Clarke and VAT, incidentally. He had to cut welfare spending to plug the gap.)
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1062102964058365953

    How are the government managing to fuck up this straight forward issue?
    Mrs May is scared of losing Esther McVey, that's why.
    God knows why. McVey is a mendacious joker. She is a disaster waiting to happen at DWP.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835

    twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1062102964058365953

    How are the government managing to fuck up this straight forward issue?
    Mrs May is scared of losing Esther McVey, that's why.
    And then their UC policy would look a shambles...hang on.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    May: Brexit talks "now in the endgame"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46188790

    Well, something is in the endgame at least. Hopefully it's the bullsh*t positioning of the main parties and they can stop worrying about elections and just vote for or against a deal, fully acknowledging what they are risking by either option, be it vassalage or no deal.
  • I'd just like to point out my pre-mid terms prediction was Dems +32 which is what they have... for the moment :) I could still be right on the Senate if Nelson holds.
  • With the “endgame” comment I’d have assumed some kind of midnight agreement to be discussed at cabinet tomorrow.

    However, no briefings are coming out of Brussels so that contradicts that...

    I don’t know what to make of it yet. There’s an eerie silence from over the channel that certainly doesn’t suggest “endgame” to me...
  • Police have spoken to staff at Edinburgh Airport as part of their inquiry into the conduct of former First Minister Alex Salmond.

    It emerged in August that two women had made complaints to the Scottish government about Mr Salmond.

    Airport bosses confirmed that they were "assisting police with inquiries" into a separate alleged incident understood to date from 2008.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,840
    Ha, I note many of those rebels had the whip withdrawn over Maastricht.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,953

    Police have spoken to staff at Edinburgh Airport as part of their inquiry into the conduct of former First Minister Alex Salmond.

    It emerged in August that two women had made complaints to the Scottish government about Mr Salmond.

    Airport bosses confirmed that they were "assisting police with inquiries" into a separate alleged incident understood to date from 2008.

    I'm handy, fly me?
  • spire2spire2 Posts: 183
    looks like betfair about to cross over but based on thin volume of matched bets
  • Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    I'd just like to point out my pre-mid terms prediction was Dems +32 which is what they have... for the moment :) I could still be right on the Senate if Nelson holds.

    They're gonna finish closer to 40
  • Alistair said:

    I'd just like to point out my pre-mid terms prediction was Dems +32 which is what they have... for the moment :) I could still be right on the Senate if Nelson holds.

    They're gonna finish closer to 40
    I said at the moment goddamit.

    I think they lead in 5, I think all would be flips
  • Scott_P said:
    Blaenau FFestiniog is a scary place at the best of times. Best not visited in the dark/misty days.
    I think of those poor quarrymen when I pass through quickly. Must have been a dreadful life.
    Would be great shame if area doesn't get assistance.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708
    edited November 2018
    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    A new empire, to secure peace and prosperity? Na, it'll never work.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230
    valleyboy said:

    Scott_P said:
    Blaenau FFestiniog is a scary place at the best of times. Best not visited in the dark/misty days.
    I think of those poor quarrymen when I pass through quickly. Must have been a dreadful life.
    Would be great shame if area doesn't get assistance.
    In an odd coincidence I watched a review of "The Keep" last night. It's a early 80's Michael Mann film about a golem trapped in a Romanian castle in WW2 and it was filmed in those slate quarries:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUNoj2nSaUc
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    Speaking just from experience of local government, people sometimes seem to get more animated about the very small stuff than some much more significant stuff. I wonder why that is? An inability to really tackle the larger issues even if the desire is there perhaps?
  • valleyboy said:

    Scott_P said:
    Blaenau FFestiniog is a scary place at the best of times. Best not visited in the dark/misty days.
    I think of those poor quarrymen when I pass through quickly. Must have been a dreadful life.
    Would be great shame if area doesn't get assistance.
    It wasn't scary at all when I did the Conwy Valley Line back in August, but as it was a day trip from Birmingham, I didn't budget enough time to do the narrow gauge railway.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    Speaking just from experience of local government, people sometimes seem to get more animated about the very small stuff than some much more significant stuff. I wonder why that is? An inability to really tackle the larger issues even if the desire is there perhaps?
    I see the same in the NHS. It is difficult to evaluate multi-million pound contracts, but everyone can understand whether to have tea or coffee!
  • North Korea is maintaining more than a dozen missile launch sites, according to new research, in a further sign that the summit diplomacy pursued by Kim Jong-un has not led to any significant disarmament.

    Little Rocket Man still at it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    Speaking just from experience of local government, people sometimes seem to get more animated about the very small stuff than some much more significant stuff. I wonder why that is? An inability to really tackle the larger issues even if the desire is there perhaps?
    An inability to deal with large numbers. People don't really bellyfeel the difference between a million, a billion and a trillion.
  • valleyboy said:

    Scott_P said:
    Blaenau FFestiniog is a scary place at the best of times. Best not visited in the dark/misty days.
    I think of those poor quarrymen when I pass through quickly. Must have been a dreadful life.
    Would be great shame if area doesn't get assistance.
    It wasn't scary at all when I did the Conwy Valley Line back in August, but as it was a day trip from Birmingham, I didn't budget enough time to do the narrow gauge railway.

    valleyboy said:

    Scott_P said:
    Blaenau FFestiniog is a scary place at the best of times. Best not visited in the dark/misty days.
    I think of those poor quarrymen when I pass through quickly. Must have been a dreadful life.
    Would be great shame if area doesn't get assistance.
    It wasn't scary at all when I did the Conwy Valley Line back in August, but as it was a day trip from Birmingham, I didn't budget enough time to do the narrow gauge railway.
    Chicken! You need to go there in the winter!

    Seriously, just a few miles up the road and you are in the Conwy valley which is a totally different landscape. Both Blaenau and Conwy well worth a visit, train or car.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    edited November 2018
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    Speaking just from experience of local government, people sometimes seem to get more animated about the very small stuff than some much more significant stuff. I wonder why that is? An inability to really tackle the larger issues even if the desire is there perhaps?
    I see the same in the NHS. It is difficult to evaluate multi-million pound contracts, but everyone can understand whether to have tea or coffee!
    It's Parkinson's law of triviliaty:

    A fictional finance committee meets to discuss a £220 million contract to build a nuclear reactor, plus a £5,000 bicycle shed for the clerical staff.

    The £220 million number is too big and too technical, and it passes in two and a half minutes. One committee member proposes a completely different plan, which nobody is willing to accept as planning is advanced, and another who understands the topic has concerns, but does not feel that he can explain his concerns to the others on the committee.

    The bicycle shed is a subject understood by the board, and the amount within their life experience, so committee member Mr Softleigh says that an aluminium roof is too expensive and they should use asbestos. Mr Holdfast wants galvanised iron. Mr Daring questions the need for the shed at all. Holdfast disagrees.

    The debate is fairly launched. A sum of £5,000 is well within everybody's comprehension. Everyone can visualise a bicycle shed. Discussion goes on, therefore, for forty-five minutes, with the possible result of saving some £250. Members at length sit back with a feeling of accomplishment.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,777

    stjohn said:

    Is anyone able link to a prominent internet argument made soon after the Brexit referendum which predicted that we would never actually leave because it was all too difficult and contradictory. I can't remember the source.

    I think I know the one you mean, but if I remember correctly it said that by resigning, Cameron had killed Brexit because his successor wouldn't be able to invoke Article 50 because they'd have to admit how damaging it would be.

    Found it:

    https://www.indy100.com/article/people-are-really-really-hoping-this-theory-about-david-cameron-and-brexit-is-true--bJhqBql0VZ
    Yes. That's it. Thanks. Enormously prescient and well informed, in my view. I wonder who the author was?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited November 2018

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    Speaking just from experience of local government, people sometimes seem to get more animated about the very small stuff than some much more significant stuff. I wonder why that is? An inability to really tackle the larger issues even if the desire is there perhaps?
    I see the same in the NHS. It is difficult to evaluate multi-million pound contracts, but everyone can understand whether to have tea or coffee!
    It's Parkinson's law of triviliaty:

    A fictional finance committee meets to discuss a £220 million contract to build a nuclear reactor, plus a £5,000 bicycle shed for the clerical staff.

    The £220 million number is too big and too technical, and it passes in two and a half minutes. One committee member proposes a completely different plan, which nobody is willing to accept as planning is advanced, and another who understands the topic has concerns, but does not feel that he can explain his concerns to the others on the committee.

    The bicycle shed is a subject understood by the board, and the amount within their life experience, so committee member Mr Softleigh says that an aluminium roof is too expensive and they should use asbestos. Mr Holdfast wants galvanised iron. Mr Daring questions the need for the shed at all. Holdfast disagrees.

    The debate is fairly launched. A sum of £5,000 is well within everybody's comprehension. Everyone can visualise a bicycle shed. Discussion goes on, therefore, for forty-five minutes, with the possible result of saving some £250. Members at length sit back with a feeling of accomplishment.
    Just barely fictional that story, as I have certainly seen debates that long on figures of that amount. Or indeed, on no amount.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    The guy who wrote the special counsel regulations is not happy with Trump’s acting AG appointment...
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/11/12/rules-are-clear-whitaker-cant-supervise-muellers-investigation/
    ...Our founders recognized that “men were not angels” and that checks and balances in government were critical to avoid threats to the rule of law. The Whitaker installation does violence to our most basic principles — enshrined in the Constitution, laws enacted by Congress, the ethics rules that govern our prosecutors and the special counsel regulations themselves.

    It is lawless and unprincipled.

    It must be stopped.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited November 2018
    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    France calls for billions of German Euros to be spent in French arms factories!
  • viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    Speaking just from experience of local government, people sometimes seem to get more animated about the very small stuff than some much more significant stuff. I wonder why that is? An inability to really tackle the larger issues even if the desire is there perhaps?
    An inability to deal with large numbers. People don't really bellyfeel the difference between a million, a billion and a trillion.
    This is why we should take advantage of a new Monarch to rebase the coinage. Make a new King Charles pound worth one hundred Queen Elizabeth pounds and an extra £20bn for the NHS is an extra £200m instead. The average house price is ~£2,000 instead of £200,000 and so on. The numbers become a bit more tractable.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    stjohn said:

    stjohn said:

    Is anyone able link to a prominent internet argument made soon after the Brexit referendum which predicted that we would never actually leave because it was all too difficult and contradictory. I can't remember the source.

    I think I know the one you mean, but if I remember correctly it said that by resigning, Cameron had killed Brexit because his successor wouldn't be able to invoke Article 50 because they'd have to admit how damaging it would be.

    Found it:

    https://www.indy100.com/article/people-are-really-really-hoping-this-theory-about-david-cameron-and-brexit-is-true--bJhqBql0VZ
    Yes. That's it. Thanks. Enormously prescient and well informed, in my view. I wonder who the author was?
    A Guardian commenter by the name of "Teebs". Clearly well acquainted with the internals of Whitehall. From his other comments, seems to be a bit of a jet-setter, and has a more than passing familiarity with the Middle East.

    So, "Teebs". Exactly what you'd call yourself if your initials were TB.

    Hmmm.....
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    But, but.... we were told no euro army, no more integration.....
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2018

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    I am even more puzzled by the reference to the "EU millions" being spent in Blaenau.

    Because it is an interesting example of how EU money is spent.

    There was a 4.5 million pound regeneration project in Blaenau Ffestiniog that was partly funded by the EU.

    The project was managed by Miller Research (UK). The architect was MacGregor Smith (based in Bath, England) and so on. Lots of slate paving stones were put down in Blaenau with Welsh words. As they had been carved by an English person, there were lots of mistakes, and so they had to be replaced.

    Of course, when a town like Blaenau Ffestiniog is regenerated by "EU millions", little of the money is actually spent in the town. It mainly goes on consultants and architects, lawyers and planners, who have little actual contact with Blaenau.

    Having been to Blaenau Ffestiniog many times over the last few years, the regeneration project has certainly improved the town.

    But it certainly doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds was spent. It looks like at most hundred thousand pounds was spent.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230
    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    But, but.... we were told no euro army, no more integration.....
    You were.
    If we stayed.
    And then we left.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    Speaking just from experience of local government, people sometimes seem to get more animated about the very small stuff than some much more significant stuff. I wonder why that is? An inability to really tackle the larger issues even if the desire is there perhaps?
    An inability to deal with large numbers. People don't really bellyfeel the difference between a million, a billion and a trillion.
    This is why we should take advantage of a new Monarch to rebase the coinage. Make a new King Charles pound worth one hundred Queen Elizabeth pounds and an extra £20bn for the NHS is an extra £200m instead. The average house price is ~£2,000 instead of £200,000 and so on. The numbers become a bit more tractable.
    Oddly enough, I am up for that.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    Speaking just from experience of local government, people sometimes seem to get more animated about the very small stuff than some much more significant stuff. I wonder why that is? An inability to really tackle the larger issues even if the desire is there perhaps?
    An inability to deal with large numbers. People don't really bellyfeel the difference between a million, a billion and a trillion.
    This is why we should take advantage of a new Monarch to rebase the coinage. Make a new King Charles pound worth one hundred Queen Elizabeth pounds and an extra £20bn for the NHS is an extra £200m instead. The average house price is ~£2,000 instead of £200,000 and so on. The numbers become a bit more tractable.
    Oddly enough, I am up for that.
    Wonder what effect that'd have on tourism when you can only get three quarters of a penny for every dollar? :D
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    I am even more puzzled by the reference to the "EU millions" being spent in Blaenau.

    Because it is an interesting example of how EU money is spent.

    There was a 4.5 million pound regeneration project in Blaenau Ffestiniog that was partly funded by the EU.

    The project was managed by Miller Research (UK). The architect was MacGregor Smith (based in Bath, England) and so on. Lots of slate paving stones were put down in Blaenau with Welsh words. As they had been carved by an English person, there were lots of mistakes, and so they had to be replaced.

    Of course, when a town like Blaenau Ffestiniog is regenerated by "EU millions", little of the money is actually spent in the town. It mainly goes on consultants and architects, lawyers and planners, who have little actual contact with Blaenau.

    Having been to Blaenau Ffestiniog many times over the last few years, the regeneration project has certainly improved the town.

    But it certainly doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds was spent. It looks like at most hundred thousand pounds was spent.
    The Westminster bubble lot just did not have clue what was going on.

    This video is Clegg visiting South Wales after the vote.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-39425373/nick-clegg-why-did-ebbw-vale-in-wales-vote-brexit
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    I am even more puzzled by the reference to the "EU millions" being spent in Blaenau.

    Because it is an interesting example of how EU money is spent.

    There was a 4.5 million pound regeneration project in Blaenau Ffestiniog that was partly funded by the EU.

    The project was managed by Miller Research (UK). The architect was MacGregor Smith (based in Bath, England) and so on. Lots of slate paving stones were put down in Blaenau with Welsh words. As they had been carved by an English person, there were lots of mistakes, and so they had to be replaced.

    Of course, when a town like Blaenau Ffestiniog is regenerated by "EU millions", little of the money is actually spent in the town. It mainly goes on consultants and architects, lawyers and planners, who have little actual contact with Blaenau.

    Having been to Blaenau Ffestiniog many times over the last few years, the regeneration project has certainly improved the town.

    But it certainly doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds was spent. It looks like at most hundred thousand pounds was spent.
    How did they improve the town for £100,000?

    By buying a half share in an Aston Martin and parking it outside the town hall?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2018

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    I am even more puzzled by the reference to the "EU millions" being spent in Blaenau.

    Because it is an interesting example of how EU money is spent.

    There was a 4.5 million pound regeneration project in Blaenau Ffestiniog that was partly funded by the EU.

    The project was managed by Miller Research (UK). The architect was MacGregor Smith (based in Bath, England) and so on. Lots of slate paving stones were put down in Blaenau with Welsh words. As they had been carved by an English person, there were lots of mistakes, and so they had to be replaced.

    Of course, when a town like Blaenau Ffestiniog is regenerated by "EU millions", little of the money is actually spent in the town. It mainly goes on consultants and architects, lawyers and planners, who have little actual contact with Blaenau.

    Having been to Blaenau Ffestiniog many times over the last few years, the regeneration project has certainly improved the town.

    But it certainly doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds was spent. It looks like at most hundred thousand pounds was spent.
    The Westminster bubble lot just did not have clue what was going on.

    This video is Clegg visiting South Wales after the vote.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-39425373/nick-clegg-why-did-ebbw-vale-in-wales-vote-brexit
    Million Pound Cleggy hasn't got a clue.

    Blaenau Ffestiniog is wet and wild and proud and strangely beautiful, it just doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds of EU money has been spent on it.

    Ebbw Vale has also been regenerated by "EU millions". It looks desperately poor and dilapidated, with a high street of pound shops and pawnbrokers and tanning parlours.

    The only well-kept building, trim and newly-painted, is the Conservative Club.

    In what is called the shopping centre, there are some statues of emaciated Welsh dragons, poor and fed on scraps.

    God knows what the planners and architects and lawyers spent the EU millions on. Lunches, probably. Ebbw Vale really doesn't even look as though any money has been spent on it in the last twenty years.

    Good ole Million Pound Cleggy. And the LibDems actually don't understand why everyone laughs at them.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    viewcode said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    But, but.... we were told no euro army, no more integration.....
    You were.
    If we stayed.
    And then we left.
    Ha ha - you really think this wasn't coming
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2018
    Roger said:

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    I am even more puzzled by the reference to the "EU millions" being spent in Blaenau.

    Because it is an interesting example of how EU money is spent.

    There was a 4.5 million pound regeneration project in Blaenau Ffestiniog that was partly funded by the EU.

    The project was managed by Miller Research (UK). The architect was MacGregor Smith (based in Bath, England) and so on. Lots of slate paving stones were put down in Blaenau with Welsh words. As they had been carved by an English person, there were lots of mistakes, and so they had to be replaced.

    Of course, when a town like Blaenau Ffestiniog is regenerated by "EU millions", little of the money is actually spent in the town. It mainly goes on consultants and architects, lawyers and planners, who have little actual contact with Blaenau.

    Having been to Blaenau Ffestiniog many times over the last few years, the regeneration project has certainly improved the town.

    But it certainly doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds was spent. It looks like at most hundred thousand pounds was spent.
    How did they improve the town for £100,000?

    By buying a half share in an Aston Martin and parking it outside the town hall?
    The most visible signs of the 4.5 million pound regeneration are some new park benches, some green space and some slate paving slabs with Welsh words on them.

    How much do you think that should cost?

    The library in Blaenau Ffestiniog is now shut, but when I was there over the summer, the community has set up (unpaid) a wonderful museum on the history of the area (with a magnificent photographic record of the 1986 Gloddfa Ganol slate mine strike).

    There was more integrity & vitality in that single amateur exhibition than the EU could provide with all its 4.5 millions of funding for architects and planners who live many miles away.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230
    Floater said:

    viewcode said:

    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    But, but.... we were told no euro army, no more integration.....
    You were.
    If we stayed.
    And then we left.
    Ha ha - you really think this wasn't coming
    I think it's coming a lot faster now.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Arizona has been called for the Democrats.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,879

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    I am even more puzzled by the reference to the "EU millions" being spent in Blaenau.

    Because it is an interesting example of how EU money is spent.

    There was a 4.5 million pound regeneration project in Blaenau Ffestiniog that was partly funded by the EU.

    The project was managed by Miller Research (UK). The architect was MacGregor Smith (based in Bath, England) and so on. Lots of slate paving stones were put down in Blaenau with Welsh words. As they had been carved by an English person, there were lots of mistakes, and so they had to be replaced.

    Of course, when a town like Blaenau Ffestiniog is regenerated by "EU millions", little of the money is actually spent in the town. It mainly goes on consultants and architects, lawyers and planners, who have little actual contact with Blaenau.

    Having been to Blaenau Ffestiniog many times over the last few years, the regeneration project has certainly improved the town.

    But it certainly doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds was spent. It looks like at most hundred thousand pounds was spent.
    It was rather more than 4.5m pounds, and apparently there was more matched funding again. This article gives a sense of what it was spent on. The local councillor seems pleased with it. Apparently there's now an excellent mountain bike centre, new art installation, lifelong learning centre, 7m spent on better road access, etc. As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/amp/
  • Anazina said:

    What's the Brexit court case in Scotland?

    I can find reference to an ECJ case being brought by Scots MPs, is this the one?

    As things stand the ECJ will now rule definitively on whether A50 is revokable in what circumstances. The UK government has fought the case all the way but the Scottish courts have now made the referal and refused the UK government leave to appeal to the Supreme Court. The ECJ hearing is on 27th Nov.

    If the ECJ rule A50 is unilaterally revocable all hell will break loose. Though of course they might well decide A50 isn't revocable at all ! The case has been brought by a group of Scottish parliamentarians, the Good Law Project and backed by £165k worth of crowdfunding. They feel confident A50 is revocable and want a ruling to let parliament know there is a legal alternative to No Deal. But of course only the ECJ can tell us.

    The UK government is dying in the ditch and asking the UK Supreme Vourt to vacate the 27th Nov hearing by withdrawing the referal rven though the Scottish courts have refused permission to appeal.

    I've chipped in to the Crowdfunder as extra facts are always useful in decision making and I hooe the result goes Remainers way. But like all litigation it's a gamble.

  • The risk in the featured market is a short extension of A50 to allow ratification of a late deal. An extension of upto two months still prevents us taking part in the European Parliament elections. However irritating it would be for many if the price of a deal vs no deal is a two month extension then they'll do it.

    The way the market is worded " by 29/3/29 " means any extension of A50 even by a day means you lose your money even if we still then leave.

    Note worthy I think today's interventions from Gordon Brown and the Spanish PM envision the ' People's Vote ' taking place during the transition - publically conceding we'll leave in March - and effectively rejoin before we reach End State.

    I think these are astute interventions. Having discharged the referendum result but stuck in the quagmire of trandition with none of the big ticket items sorted rejoining-before-we-properly-leave could be the compromise that saves us.

    I'm in the featured market backing leave on time but I'm more confident than ever the second referendum campaign has already begun. In the longer term this simply isn't over.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Anazina said:

    twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1062102964058365953

    How are the government managing to fuck up this straight forward issue?
    Mrs May is scared of losing Esther McVey, that's why.
    God knows why. McVey is a mendacious joker. She is a disaster waiting to happen at DWP.
    And she can hardly resign due to a special personal business interest of her partner, anyway. Not and hopemto retain a shred of personal credibility.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    Speaking just from experience of local government, people sometimes seem to get more animated about the very small stuff than some much more significant stuff. I wonder why that is? An inability to really tackle the larger issues even if the desire is there perhaps?
    Speaking from similar personal experience, I suggest key factors are that such issues are often those that are free of constraint and where it is possible for a politician to take a clear decision for or against, and hence a clear stance can be presented publicly. And, as you hint, they are easier to grasp with the minimum of application to the subject.

    Most of politics (particularly at local level) is so constrained by the need to balance complex, interconnected and conflicting considerations or interests, and hemmed in by existing decisions and legal, practical or financial constraints, and so it is on the small isolated and relatively trivial issues that politicians can really 'let themselves go'.

  • Note worthy I think today's interventions from Gordon Brown and the Spanish PM envision the ' People's Vote ' taking place during the transition - publically conceding we'll leave in March - and effectively rejoin before we reach End State.

    Wouldn't that require everybody and their second chamber to ratify, or is there some way to write the ability to get back in into the withdrawal agreement?

  • Note worthy I think today's interventions from Gordon Brown and the Spanish PM envision the ' People's Vote ' taking place during the transition - publically conceding we'll leave in March - and effectively rejoin before we reach End State.

    Wouldn't that require everybody and their second chamber to ratify, or is there some way to write the ability to get back in into the withdrawal agreement?
    Yes, you are right. We'd have to rejoin via the existing procedure. I forget which A it is. But we'd be completely compliament with the entire acquis as it would still be in force. So the negotiins on closing the chapters could be heavily truncated. I think the European Parliament elections in 2024 would be the early target.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,879


    Note worthy I think today's interventions from Gordon Brown and the Spanish PM envision the ' People's Vote ' taking place during the transition - publically conceding we'll leave in March - and effectively rejoin before we reach End State.

    Wouldn't that require everybody and their second chamber to ratify, or is there some way to write the ability to get back in into the withdrawal agreement?
    Yes, you are right. We'd have to rejoin via the existing procedure. I forget which A it is. But we'd be completely compliament with the entire acquis as it would still be in force. So the negotiins on closing the chapters could be heavily truncated. I think the European Parliament elections in 2024 would be the early target.
    Rejoining could prove quicker than leaving.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    I am even more puzzled by the reference to the "EU millions" being spent in Blaenau.

    Because it is an interesting example of how EU money is spent.

    There was a 4.5 million pound regeneration project in Blaenau Ffestiniog that was partly funded by the EU.

    The project was managed by Miller Research (

    Having been to Blaenau Ffestiniog many times over the last few years, the regeneration project has certainly improved the town.

    But it certainly doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds was spent. It looks like at most hundred thousand pounds was spent.
    The Westminster bubble lot just did not have clue what was going on.

    This video is Clegg visiting South Wales after the vote.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-39425373/nick-clegg-why-did-ebbw-vale-in-wales-vote-brexit
    Million Pound Cleggy hasn't got a clue.

    Blaenau Ffestiniog is wet and wild and proud and strangely beautiful, it just doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds of EU money has been spent on it.

    Ebbw Vale has also been regenerated by "EU millions". It looks desperately poor and dilapidated, with a high street of pound shops and pawnbrokers and tanning parlours.

    The only well-kept building, trim and newly-painted, is the Conservative Club.

    In what is called the shopping centre, there are some statues of emaciated Welsh dragons, poor and fed on scraps.

    God knows what the planners and architects and lawyers spent the EU millions on. Lunches, probably. Ebbw Vale really doesn't even look as though any money has been spent on it in the last twenty years.

    Good ole Million Pound Cleggy. And the LibDems actually don't understand why everyone laughs at them.
    Doesn't sound very appealing, but how is Brexit going to improve things?

    According to https://www.ilivehere.co.uk/statistics-blaenau-gwent-blaenau-gwent-4028.html it has a declining population, of low skills, high benefits dependency and only around 1% not born in the UK.

    Around a century ago Ebbw Vale was a boom town, but hard to see why that should return with Brexit, particularly a WTO Brexit.

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,879
    You can get 1.9 on Brexit happening before May leaves as PM (as per generous betfair definition of Brexit). That's value I reckon.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    If you're Biden you have to find numbers like that tempting. I know he has some potential difficulties around #MeToo conversations but he'd have fun running against Trump...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2018
    rkrkrk said:



    It was rather more than 4.5m pounds, and apparently there was more matched funding again. This article gives a sense of what it was spent on. The local councillor seems pleased with it. Apparently there's now an excellent mountain bike centre, new art installation, lifelong learning centre, 7m spent on better road access, etc. As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/amp/

    I do love the way Google has made experts of everyone !!

    I just visit Blaenau regularly, so it is lovely to be corrected by an "expert" who can Google and lives hundreds of miles away.

    There is no lifelong learning centre in Blaenau Ffestiniog. There is one in Maentwrog in the Council building at Plas Tan Y Bwlch. It is not "new". There is no public transport between Maentwrog and Blaenau Ffestiniog, so not easily accessible without a private car.

    It looks like the Council rebadged the money to support its existing facility.

    I am not aware of any art gallery in Blaenau. There is a small commercial framing shop that sells some poor pictures that calls itself a gallery. Is that what you mean?

    There is the commercially owned Antur Siring downhill bike centre. When I was last there, it was very quiet. More to the point, why on earth create another downhill bike centre for tourists when there is already an enormous and very successful one at Coed Y Brenin between Maentwrog and Dolgellau. How many downhill mountain bike centres does Gwynedd need?

    The Ffestiniog railway has long predated the EU.

    The article on Blaenau Ffestiniog and the EU reads as if Topping, Alastair Meeks and William Glenn wrote it after a wine-laden five course restaurant meal in Central London.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
    If he makes the debates, his uber-combatative style will be highly entertaining. And I would love to see a Trump-Ojeda debate.

    I'm not sure what kind of President he'd make, but am sorely tempted to put a few quid on next time I'm in the UK...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
    If he makes the debates, his uber-combatative style will be highly entertaining. And I would love to see a Trump-Ojeda debate.

    I'm not sure what kind of President he'd make, but am sorely tempted to put a few quid on next time I'm in the UK...
    250/1 as next POTUS with Shadsy, I couldn't resist...
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,879

    rkrkrk said:



    It was rather more than 4.5m pounds, and apparently there was more matched funding again. This article gives a sense of what it was spent on. The local councillor seems pleased with it. Apparently there's now an excellent mountain bike centre, new art installation, lifelong learning centre, 7m spent on better road access, etc. As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/amp/

    I do love the way Google has made experts of everyone !!

    I just visit Blaenau regularly, so it is lovely to be corrected by an "expert" who can Google and lives hundreds of miles away.

    There is no lifelong learning centre in Blaenau Ffestiniog. There is one in Maentwrog in the Council building at Plas Tan Y Bwlch. It is not "new". There is no public transport between Maentwrog and Blaenau Ffestiniog, so not easily accessible without a private car.

    It looks like the Council rebadged the money to support its existing facility.

    I am not aware of any art gallery in Blaenau. There is a small commercial framing shop that sells some poor pictures that calls itself a gallery. Is that what you mean?

    There is the commercially owned Antur Siring downhill bike centre. When I was last there, it was very quiet. More to the point, why on earth create another downhill bike centre for tourists when there is already an enormous and very successful one at Coed Y Brenin between Maentwrog and Dolgellau. How many downhill mountain bike centres does Gwynedd need?

    The article on Blaenau Ffestiniog and the EU reads as if Topping, Alastair Meeks and William Glenn wrote it after a wine-laden five course restaurant meal in Central London.
    I'm even further away than that! But you asked where the money had gone, and I told you. Sorry you didn't like the answer. If the council rebadged the money to support existing institutions that sounds very sensible to me (and perhaps surprisingly indicative of flexibility on the behalf of EU bureaucracy).

    I'm happy to believe the local councillor that the EU money has helped. It's also notable that the county was the only one in N. Wales that voted remain. That's suggestive of the idea that at least some of the local people think the money has been beneficial.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    The Cyclefree
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Foxy said:



    Doesn't sound very appealing, but how is Brexit going to improve things?

    According to https://www.ilivehere.co.uk/statistics-blaenau-gwent-blaenau-gwent-4028.html it has a declining population, of low skills, high benefits dependency and only around 1% not born in the UK.

    Around a century ago Ebbw Vale was a boom town, but hard to see why that should return with Brexit, particularly a WTO Brexit.

    There is no hope for Ebbw Vale, It was a boom town when there was iron and steel, though the money was made by the English iron masters.

    If you were going to spend money on Ebbw Vale, the first thing it needs is better transport out of Ebbw Vale to Cardiff or to the M4. Look at a road map. Even Merthyr Tydfil is better positioned for a recovery, as it at least has good road links.

    Some colossal fuckwit has spent money -- perhaps EU money or Welsh Assembly money-- on an Industrial Park north of the town. When I was last there, it was derelict and deserted. I was lost and I could not even find someone to ask directions to get out of Ebbw Vale.

    Given the lousy transport links down the Valley, you would have to be insane to build a small factory there.

    If there was millions of pounds of EU money spent in Ebbw Vale -- which I frankly doubt -- it would have been better spent giving the ~ 15,000 people who live there a cash gift of 1000 pounds.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    edited November 2018

    ... There is no public transport between Maentwrog and Blaenau Ffestiniog, so not easily accessible without a private car. ...

    Despite public transport cuts, Arriva run an hourly bus service (3B, Mon-Sat) on the route Blaenau Ffestiniog to Pwllheli via Tan-y-Bwlch/Maentwrog and Porthmadog.

    https://www.traveline.cymru/uploads/OmniPDF/OWPDF__Merged_OT_Files-3_3B_X3_-_Porthmadog_-_Pwllheli_(ACYM_&_CAEL)-5/003MGY5.pdf
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:



    It was rather more than 4.5m pounds, and apparently there was more matched funding again. This article gives a sense of what it was spent on. The local councillor seems pleased with it. Apparently there's now an excellent mountain bike centre, new art installation, lifelong learning centre, 7m spent on better road access, etc. As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/amp/

    I do love the way Google has made experts of everyone !!

    I just visit Blaenau regularly, so it is lovely to be corrected by an "expert" who can Google and lives hundreds of miles away.

    There is no lifelong learning centre in Blaenau Ffestiniog. There is one in Maentwrog in the Council building at Plas Tan Y Bwlch. It is not "new". There is no public transport between Maentwrog and Blaenau Ffestiniog, so not easily accessible without a private car.

    It looks like the Council rebadged the money to support its existing facility.

    I am not aware of any art gallery in Blaenau. There is a small commercial framing shop that sells some poor pictures that calls itself a gallery. Is that what you mean?

    There is the commercially owned Antur Siring downhill bike centre. When I was last there, it was very quiet. More to the point, why on earth create another downhill bike centre for tourists when there is already an enormous and very successful one at Coed Y Brenin between Maentwrog and Dolgellau. How many downhill mountain bike centres does Gwynedd need?

    The article on Blaenau Ffestiniog and the EU reads as if Topping, Alastair Meeks and William Glenn wrote it after a wine-laden five course restaurant meal in Central London.
    I'm even further away than that! But you asked where the money had gone, and I told you. Sorry you didn't like the answer. If the council rebadged the money to support existing institutions that sounds very sensible to me (and perhaps surprisingly indicative of flexibility on the behalf of EU bureaucracy).

    I'm happy to believe the local councillor that the EU money has helped. It's also notable that the county was the only one in N. Wales that voted remain. That's suggestive of the idea that at least some of the local people think the money has been beneficial.
    You did not tell me. You quoted a puff piece in a newspaper that is mainly wrong.

    You said "As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to. " Please provide some statistical evidence.

    There is more to research than sitting thousands of miles away googling.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    daodao said:

    ... There is no public transport between Maentwrog and Blaenau Ffestiniog, so not easily accessible without a private car. ...

    Despite public transport cuts, Arriva run an hourly bus service (3B, Mon-Sat) on the route Blaenau Ffestiniog to Pwllheli via Tan-y-Bwlch/Maentwrog and Porthmadog.

    https://www.traveline.cymru/uploads/OmniPDF/OWPDF__Merged_OT_Files-3_3B_X3_-_Porthmadog_-_Pwllheli_(ACYM_&_CAEL)-5/003MGY5.pdf
    It does not stop at Tan Y Bwlch, which is a steep hill side walk from Maentwrog.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821

    daodao said:

    ... There is no public transport between Maentwrog and Blaenau Ffestiniog, so not easily accessible without a private car. ...

    Despite public transport cuts, Arriva run an hourly bus service (3B, Mon-Sat) on the route Blaenau Ffestiniog to Pwllheli via Tan-y-Bwlch/Maentwrog and Porthmadog.

    https://www.traveline.cymru/uploads/OmniPDF/OWPDF__Merged_OT_Files-3_3B_X3_-_Porthmadog_-_Pwllheli_(ACYM_&_CAEL)-5/003MGY5.pdf
    It does not stop at Tan Y Bwlch, which is a steep hill side walk from Maentwrog.
    The bus stops at Tan-y-Bwlch Oakeley Arms, which is about 500 metres via a gently sloping paved driveway from the National Park Centre at Plas Tan-y-Bwlch. I have visited the gardens there on a number of occasions - they are especially beautiful in May when the azaleas and rhododendrons are in bloom. The Ffestiniog Railway station named Tan-y-Bwlch is some distance (at least 1 km) via a steep hill from Tan-y-Bwlch itself. Plas halt on this line also serves the National Park Centre, but again is a steep climb from the centre.
  • Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
    If he makes the debates, his uber-combatative style will be highly entertaining. And I would love to see a Trump-Ojeda debate.

    I'm not sure what kind of President he'd make, but am sorely tempted to put a few quid on next time I'm in the UK...
    250/1 as next POTUS with Shadsy, I couldn't resist...
    With odds-boost on Ladbrokes I just got 250/1 on Ojeda.

    He has declared that he's running.
  • justin124 said:

    Arizona has been called for the Democrats.

    So still possible, if unlikely, that there will have been no change in the political makeup of the Senate once the dust has settled.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    The problem with perception of places is that it is difficult to get a 'true' picture.

    An outsider might visit a town as part of a holiday trip, or even whilst owning a nearby holiday home, and see only the 'good' bits: they go to a few cafes, visit a museum, go to an outward bounds centre. They don't have to rely on the public transport, or the services, and rarely, if ever, go the dingy parts of the town.

    I feel quite favourably about Blaenau Ffestiniog, based solely on a visit to the Llechwed (sp?) slate caverns as a child that I loved and remember fondly (we still occasionally use the late coasters I bought there). It has been my only interaction with the town. I also know it as a terminus of the Ffestionog Railway. Put together, this means I have a generally positive feel for the place, based on totally spurious information.

    On the other hand, locals can get a rather negative and unfair view of a place they live in - some see only the bad, and the good is ignored, or sadly sometimes even inaccessible to them.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2018
    daodao said:

    daodao said:

    ... There is no public transport between Maentwrog and Blaenau Ffestiniog, so not easily accessible without a private car. ...

    Despite public transport cuts, Arriva run an hourly bus service (3B, Mon-Sat) on the route Blaenau Ffestiniog to Pwllheli via Tan-y-Bwlch/Maentwrog and Porthmadog.

    https://www.traveline.cymru/uploads/OmniPDF/OWPDF__Merged_OT_Files-3_3B_X3_-_Porthmadog_-_Pwllheli_(ACYM_&_CAEL)-5/003MGY5.pdf
    It does not stop at Tan Y Bwlch, which is a steep hill side walk from Maentwrog.
    The bus stops at Tan-y-Bwlch Oakeley Arms, which is about 500 metres via a gently sloping paved driveway from the National Park Centre at Plas Tan-y-Bwlch. I have visited the gardens there on a number of occasions - they are especially beautiful in May when the azaleas and rhododendrons are in bloom. The Ffestiniog Railway station named Tan-y-Bwlch is some distance (at least 1 km) via a steep hill from Tan-y-Bwlch itself. Plas halt on this line also serves the National Park Centre, but again is a steep climb from the centre.
    I have also visited on a number of occasions. I would not say the climb was "gently sloping". Also, the rhododendrons are being eliminated from SNP as an invasive species (who knows, perhaps with EU money!)

    The Plas is the former home of the Oakleys. Like many such homes in North Wales, it is a white elephant, and has large maintenance costs for its owner, Gwynedd Council, which maintains an administrative centre there.

    The only point I am making is that the Lifelong Learning Centre that rkrkrk talks about so breathlessly is not in Blaenau Ffestiniog, nor is it easily accessible from Blaenau Ffestiniog without a private car.

    It has not been designed for the residents of Blaenau in mind. It is a pre-existing, former home of the local landowner that is mainly used by Gwynedd Council & the SNP authority.
  • Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
    If he makes the debates, his uber-combatative style will be highly entertaining. And I would love to see a Trump-Ojeda debate.

    I'm not sure what kind of President he'd make, but am sorely tempted to put a few quid on next time I'm in the UK...
    250/1 as next POTUS with Shadsy, I couldn't resist...
    With odds-boost on Ladbrokes I just got 250/1 on Ojeda.

    He has declared that he's running.
    Good luck with that but surely the inference from the sheer number of Democrat contenders is that they do not believe the oldtimers at the top of the market will run, and the market is distorted by name recognition of Biden and Warren. At this stage I'd be slightly wary of being sucked into backing any Democrat with a pulse, though.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,729
    edited November 2018

    The problem with perception of places is that it is difficult to get a 'true' picture.

    An outsider might visit a town as part of a holiday trip, or even whilst owning a nearby holiday home, and see only the 'good' bits: they go to a few cafes, visit a museum, go to an outward bounds centre. They don't have to rely on the public transport, or the services, and rarely, if ever, go the dingy parts of the town.

    I feel quite favourably about Blaenau Ffestiniog, based solely on a visit to the Llechwed (sp?) slate caverns as a child that I loved and remember fondly (we still occasionally use the late coasters I bought there). It has been my only interaction with the town. I also know it as a terminus of the Ffestionog Railway. Put together, this means I have a generally positive feel for the place, based on totally spurious information.

    On the other hand, locals can get a rather negative and unfair view of a place they live in - some see only the bad, and the good is ignored, or sadly sometimes even inaccessible to them.

    Interesting game to play in Blaenau. As you drive through (very slowly because despite this much quoted article the roads are shocking) count the number of boarded up pubs.

    When you reach ten, with one still open, you realise this town really isn't taking in the big tourist bucks.

    Can also be done with 'For Sale' signs vs the number of derelict houses.
This discussion has been closed.