Mr. Submarine, I don't think the English point matters, but I do think you otherwise make a good post. I find Sturgeon's distress at a short-lived union ending ironic, but she does have a fair point about May and Corbyn more or less agreeing.
The vanity of small differences will be the debate's hallmark if it doesn't include someone strongly for the EU and someone who actually wants to leave properly, and not just in name only.
The Corbyn/May position reminds me a bit of the Cameron/Miliband approach to intervention in Syria. They had practically identical positions but one wanted a blue plan and one a red plan, and neither ended up passing.
As was pointed out below, the TV debate is Brexit.
PREMISE: Lets debate each other on TV head to head 1st ARGUMENT: lots of other politicians want in. NO - must be head to head 2nd ARGUMENT: lets get lots of punters in. So that people can ask us questions in our head to head 3rd ARGUMENT: Sky News laid down the challenge to us. So lets argue about whether its BBC or ITV 4th ARGUMENT: What time is best Lets go before I'm a Celebrity At which point the purpose of the exercise is long forgotten
Neither politician should do this debate. May is convinced that if she takes her fabulous deal to the people everyone will Love Her and back it and then she can get on with being Prime Minister until 2042. Corbyn is convinced that if he mentions austerity and food banks everyone will forget about Brexit and focus on the real National Emergency (that he isn't Prime Minister)
Both are going to fall flat on their face. Nothing that May can do disguises that this deal is a shit sandwich and she is demeaning herself and her office by begging. Nothing that Corbyn can do disguises that he has no alternative plan for Brexit.
I think the idea that someone shouldn't try to convince the public because if(when) they fail it will be demeaning to be a little odd. She thinks, however incorrectly, that her deal is the best option, or at least the only sensible option. She should try to convince people of that. It's not like she will be PM for too much longer, what does she have to lose at least making the attempt. And it certainly doesn't demean the office to 'beg' it. Are PMs of coalitions demeaned because they have to try to persuade another party, are PMs of minority government's demeaned?
Not even trying to persuade people would be more demeaning, as bad as she is as it, as even as there are other things she could try, there are more important things than preserving the dignity of one's office.
To be serious for a moment a Corbyn/May head to head is a democratic outrage. Two ' releavers ' , two opponents of a second referendum, two opponents of SM membership, two English people. Deliberately excluding no and new dealers, Norways and People's Voters is outrageous. It's not national broadcasters job to jump whenever the PM of the day day's " here's my frame, please rescue me. "
Everything possible should be done to resist and if need be delegitimise this ghastly format.
I think it is legitimate if the official opposition is offically opposing the official deal. Labour can't hide any more so one way or another the Brexit mayhem is about to break out in their ranks. The one rule of Brexit is that any group of more than one person will split and engage in acrimonious argument when the topic is raised. In fact this applies to many groups of one person.
At times I do find responses puzzling. Sky were mapping out Corbyn as PM by Xmas and you think Corbyn should not have his ambiguity challenged. Everyone knows TM position so you want Corbyn to be shielded
I'm no supporter of Corbyn but there are a variety of opinions against the Deal for a variety of reasons. Corbyn isn't wholly representative of anti-Deal opinion (he doesn't represent me for example).
As for Corbyn becoming PM by Christmas, how? Seriously, how? Unless the Tories are immeasurably more stupid than even I believe, they won't vote for a GE and with 315 seats, they aren't going to voluntarily step away from power.
It was featured on Sky by Lewis Goodall, but he is writing a book on labour and does come over as left leaning
Corbyn should tell May to sod off. As long as he make's himself available for the same amount of time to an alternative national broadcaster that Sunday and thus not seen to be running then he's fine. He just needs to triangulate between May's '17 debate boycott and '18 debate trap.
To be serious for a moment a Corbyn/May head to head is a democratic outrage. Two ' releavers ' , two opponents of a second referendum, two opponents of SM membership, two English people. Deliberately excluding no and new dealers, Norways and People's Voters is outrageous. It's not national broadcasters job to jump whenever the PM of the day day's " here's my frame, please rescue me. "
Everything possible should be done to resist and if need be delegitimise this ghastly format.
I think it is pointless, but legitimate, as proposed. They lead the two biggest parties and are being asked to debate what is currently on the table vs what they intend if it is rejected. It's not a round table discussion it's pinning down what each says they would do and what they think about the present situation. Given it is a parliamentary battle at the moment, that's not entirely unreasonable. More options will only open up after all if they agree to it.
Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV
That is labour's policy right there.
She is scared to meet the people!
Are you serious. She has been meeting the public almost daily, appearing on the media, in parliament and more to follow.
Maybe your bias showing
She "meets" the people in controlled environments like factories where nobody is going to risk being sacked. Typical that she wants to hobnob with the elite than answer the questions of ordinary people. She is frit!
Your prejeudice is obvious. She was out with the public on ITV Wales last week and she got a good reception and support from just ordinary voters - so much so I was surprised
Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV
That is labour's policy right there.
She is scared to meet the people!
Are you serious. She has been meeting the public almost daily, appearing on the media, in parliament and more to follow.
Maybe your bias showing
She "meets" the people in controlled environments like factories where nobody is going to risk being sacked. Typical that she wants to hobnob with the elite than answer the questions of ordinary people. She is frit!
Your prejeudice is obvious. She was out with the public on ITV Wales last week and she got a good reception and support from just ordinary voters - so much so I was surprised
The government is set to relax its immigration rules to let more foreign doctors come to Britain to help tackle the NHS’s widespread shortages of medics, the Guardian can reveal.
Ministers have agreed to significantly expand the 1,500 doctors a year allowed to come and work in Britain under the medical training initiative (MTI). The move could result in the maximum number of non-EU medics able to come rising to as many as 3,000.
The length of time young doctors from outside the EU are able to stay in Britain under the scheme may also rise from two to three years, according to well-placed sources.
The change comes as the government is under pressure to explain how its intention to move to a new immigration system after Brexit, with right of entry dependent on skills, will help alleviate NHS under-staffing.
Book reveals how Boris overruled a bid by Lord Adonis to name Crossrule after Winston Churchill to ensure it was named the Elizabethline after the Queen.
The book also reveals how Margaret Thatcher picked the east west route over a proposed Chelsea to Hackney route with the words 'Hackney! Hackney! Do you know what sort of people live out in Hackney? They are not Conservative voters. Who wants to go to Hackney?'
Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV
That is labour's policy right there.
She is scared to meet the people!
Are you serious. She has been meeting the public almost daily, appearing on the media, in parliament and more to follow.
Maybe your bias showing
She "meets" the people in controlled environments like factories where nobody is going to risk being sacked. Typical that she wants to hobnob with the elite than answer the questions of ordinary people. She is frit!
Your prejeudice is obvious. She was out with the public on ITV Wales last week and she got a good reception and support from just ordinary voters - so much so I was surprised
I'd guess that Corbyn and TMay have about as much contact with ordinary members of the public as each other.
Mr Corbyn claimed he preferred ITV's bid out of "respect" for viewers who wanted to watch the I'm A Celebrity... Get Me Out Of Here! final on ITV the same evening - 9 December. "I want to watch it myself," he said.
About as believable as when Gordon brown said he was a big arctic monkeys fan.
Well she waited until midway through this year to even try to get the Cabinet on board,. She left it way too late.
It is almost amusing to note as the piece does that the effort May is finally displaying does appear to be approved of, but it is so fruitless because there was not enough effort to take a decision sooner and get MPs on board.
Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV
That is labour's policy right there.
She is scared to meet the people!
Are you serious. She has been meeting the public almost daily, appearing on the media, in parliament and more to follow.
Maybe your bias showing
She "meets" the people in controlled environments like factories where nobody is going to risk being sacked. Typical that she wants to hobnob with the elite than answer the questions of ordinary people. She is frit!
Your prejeudice is obvious. She was out with the public on ITV Wales last week and she got a good reception and support from just ordinary voters - so much so I was surprised
I'd guess that Corbyn and TMay have about as much contact with ordinary members of the public as each other.
Ah, but I bet people think Corbyn is more in touch with the public though, so he gets more of a pass on it even if they are indeed both just as guilty.
I never heard Mrs May say “But, if you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere. You don't understand what citizenship means.”
It was just on radio. It's quite an insight and explains a lot. I think she's losing it
May's strategy is clear. The more she can pin opposition to the deal on Corbyn the more she believes the Tory Party will get behind her. Corbyn’s motivation is the same.
Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV
That is labour's policy right there.
She is scared to meet the people!
Are you serious. She has been meeting the public almost daily, appearing on the media, in parliament and more to follow.
Maybe your bias showing
She "meets" the people in controlled environments like factories where nobody is going to risk being sacked. Typical that she wants to hobnob with the elite than answer the questions of ordinary people. She is frit!
Your prejeudice is obvious. She was out with the public on ITV Wales last week and she got a good reception and support from just ordinary voters - so much so I was surprised
She is a fake, self-ordained vicar. The BBC cannot be trusted with the Brexit Debate.
And "fake, self ordained vicars" (your words) can't be members of the public too?
Why not? Or are only Labour Party activists acceptable as "members of the public"?
When Newsnight said she was a vicar that suggests COfE, not some loony sect with one member. All very misleading at best.
Did the BBC describe her as such? You’re objecting because of her mis-identification?
It was misleading at best to portray this far right loon as an ordinary vicar. Until they sort themselves out ITV should host the head-to-head debate with ordinary members of the public instead of some gilded elite.
I never heard Mrs May say “But, if you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere. You don't understand what citizenship means.”
It was just on radio. It's quite an insight and explains a lot.
You realise in context it was about rich tax dodgers.
May's strategy is clear. The more she can pin opposition to the deal on Corbyn the more she believes the Tory Party will get behind her. Corbyn’s motivation is the same.
Unfortunate for her that even if she gets most of the Tory rebels on board, that's still not enough.
May's strategy is clear. The more she can pin opposition to the deal on Corbyn the more she believes the Tory Party will get behind her. Corbyn’s motivation is the same.
I don't think so... Her strategy is more three dimensional than that.
I never heard Mrs May say “But, if you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere. You don't understand what citizenship means.”
It was just on radio. It's quite an insight and explains a lot.
You realise in context it was about rich tax dodgers.
It's also mentioned constantly, I'm surprised it was missed.
Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV
That is labour's policy right there.
She is scared to meet the people!
Are you serious. She has been meeting the public almost daily, appearing on the media, in parliament and more to follow.
Maybe your bias showing
She "meets" the people in controlled environments like factories where nobody is going to risk being sacked. Typical that she wants to hobnob with the elite than answer the questions of ordinary people. She is frit!
Your prejeudice is obvious. She was out with the public on ITV Wales last week and she got a good reception and support from just ordinary voters - so much so I was surprised
At times I do find responses puzzling. Sky were mapping out Corbyn as PM by Xmas and you think Corbyn should not have his ambiguity challenged. Everyone knows TM position so you want Corbyn to be shielded
I'm no supporter of Corbyn but there are a variety of opinions against the Deal for a variety of reasons. Corbyn isn't wholly representative of anti-Deal opinion (he doesn't represent me for example).
As for Corbyn becoming PM by Christmas, how? Seriously, how? Unless the Tories are immeasurably more stupid than even I believe, they won't vote for a GE and with 315 seats, they aren't going to voluntarily step away from power.
It was featured on Sky by Lewis Goodall, but he is writing a book on labour and does come over as left leaning
Actually quite a fit for Sky
I knew Goodall from his student days - he is not just left leaning. He was certainly on the extreme left when at Oxford.
Mr Corbyn claimed he preferred ITV's bid out of "respect" for viewers who wanted to watch the I'm A Celebrity... Get Me Out Of Here! final on ITV the same evening - 9 December. "I want to watch it myself," he said.
About as believable as when Gordon brown said he was a big arctic monkeys fan.
Brown actually said, when forced to listen to some Arctic Monkeys music, 'It would certainly wake me up.'
Which was interpreted by the Press as 'Brown wakes up to Arctic Monkeys'.
Fake news from the Tory press. Up there with Michael Foot's British Warm.
May's strategy is clear. The more she can pin opposition to the deal on Corbyn the more she believes the Tory Party will get behind her. Corbyn’s motivation is the same.
I don't think so... Her strategy is more three dimensional than that.
Really? Looks to me like her strategy is survive day to day, but at least when she does go down no one will say she did not try at the end.
May's strategy is clear. The more she can pin opposition to the deal on Corbyn the more she believes the Tory Party will get behind her. Corbyn’s motivation is the same.
Unfortunate for her that even if she gets most of the Tory rebels on board, that's still not enough.
I really do not think she expects the deal to get anywhere near approval but needs to get parliament to expose its positions and contradictions in order to find some consensus for the way forward
I doubt she wants to stop this deal being voted on and so she has to give it her backing and of course it will be a base for what happens next
I think the idea that someone shouldn't try to convince the public because if(when) they fail it will be demeaning to be a little odd. She thinks, however incorrectly, that her deal is the best option, or at least the only sensible option. She should try to convince people of that. It's not like she will be PM for too much longer, what does she have to lose at least making the attempt. And it certainly doesn't demean the office to 'beg' it. Are PMs of coalitions demeaned because they have to try to persuade another party, are PMs of minority government's demeaned?
Not even trying to persuade people would be more demeaning, as bad as she is as it, as even as there are other things she could try, there are more important things than preserving the dignity of one's office.
This is so far outside of May's comfort zone that like Paul McCartney she may be dead and have been replaced by a lookalike. She doesn't do people, can't do normal, can't debate or build an argument. Yet despite the number of her MPs opposing it being in triple digits and increasing every day, she is "touring" hand picked locations, writing begging letters, handing out gongs and now has been persuaded to do the head to head debate she wussed out of in 2017.
And after all this? The deal gets destroyed in the Commons and she gets resigned. Prime Ministers should not beg. Should not plead. The proposal either has merit or it doesn't. And it doesn't. At which point its in everyone's interest - hers, the party, the country, and the history books to go. Not get caught up pleading for which broadcaster and which TV show to precede for her begging fest.
Mr Corbyn claimed he preferred ITV's bid out of "respect" for viewers who wanted to watch the I'm A Celebrity... Get Me Out Of Here! final on ITV the same evening - 9 December. "I want to watch it myself," he said.
About as believable as when Gordon brown said he was a big arctic monkeys fan.
Brown actually said, when forced to listen to some Arctic Monkeys music, 'It would certainly wake me up.'
Which was interpreted by the Press as 'Brown wakes up to Arctic Monkeys'.
Fake news from the Tory press. Up there with Michael Foot's British Warm.
Fair enough..although wasn't just "Tory Press" that jumped on it. He also claimed to be a Pop Idol fan...what's his excuse for that?
The length of time young doctors from outside the EU are able to stay in Britain under the scheme may also rise from two to three years, according to well-placed sources.
I think we should give skilled immigrants a route to residence then citizenship - asking them to come here for 3 years then bugger off is insulting.
Mr Corbyn claimed he preferred ITV's bid out of "respect" for viewers who wanted to watch the I'm A Celebrity... Get Me Out Of Here! final on ITV the same evening - 9 December. "I want to watch it myself," he said.
About as believable as when Gordon brown said he was a big arctic monkeys fan.
Brown actually said, when forced to listen to some Arctic Monkeys music, 'It would certainly wake me up.'
Which was interpreted by the Press as 'Brown wakes up to Arctic Monkeys'.
Fake news from the Tory press. Up there with Michael Foot's British Warm.
Fair enough..although wasn't just "Tory Press" that jumped on it. He also claimed to be a Pop Idol fan...what's his excuse for that?
And the ludicrous Zac claimed he was a Bollywood fan.
I think the idea that someone shouldn't try to convince the public because if(when) they fail it will be demeaning to be a little odd. She thinks, however incorrectly, that her deal is the best option, or at least the only sensible option. She should try to convince people of that. It's not like she will be PM for too much longer, what does she have to lose at least making the attempt. And it certainly doesn't demean the office to 'beg' it. Are PMs of coalitions demeaned because they have to try to persuade another party, are PMs of minority government's demeaned?
Not even trying to persuade people would be more demeaning, as bad as she is as it, as even as there are other things she could try, there are more important things than preserving the dignity of one's office.
This is so far outside of May's comfort zone that like Paul McCartney she may be dead and have been replaced by a lookalike. She doesn't do people, can't do normal, can't debate or build an argument. Yet despite the number of her MPs opposing it being in triple digits and increasing every day, she is "touring" hand picked locations, writing begging letters, handing out gongs and now has been persuaded to do the head to head debate she wussed out of in 2017.
And after all this? The deal gets destroyed in the Commons and she gets resigned. Prime Ministers should not beg. Should not plead. The proposal either has merit or it doesn't. And it doesn't. At which point its in everyone's interest - hers, the party, the country, and the history books to go. Not get caught up pleading for which broadcaster and which TV show to precede for her begging fest.
Would Thatcher have done this? Blair? Major FFS?
Remember all of the Tory posters here on PB who would rip the piss out of Gordon Brown, day in, day out?
They must be wishing that the current PM was half as able as Gordon.
Mr Corbyn claimed he preferred ITV's bid out of "respect" for viewers who wanted to watch the I'm A Celebrity... Get Me Out Of Here! final on ITV the same evening - 9 December. "I want to watch it myself," he said.
About as believable as when Gordon brown said he was a big arctic monkeys fan.
Brown actually said, when forced to listen to some Arctic Monkeys music, 'It would certainly wake me up.'
Which was interpreted by the Press as 'Brown wakes up to Arctic Monkeys'.
Fake news from the Tory press. Up there with Michael Foot's British Warm.
Fair enough..although wasn't just "Tory Press" that jumped on it. He also claimed to be a Pop Idol fan...what's his excuse for that?
And the ludicrous Zac claimed he was a Bollywood fan.
I never heard Mrs May say “But, if you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere. You don't understand what citizenship means.”
It was just on radio. It's quite an insight and explains a lot.
You realise in context it was about rich tax dodgers.
The main insight is that May and her inner circle didn't understand how soundbites work.
Remember all of the Tory posters here on PB who would rip the piss out of Gordon Brown, day in, day out?
They must be wishing that the current PM was half as able as Gordon.
True. Brown may have been a megalomaniacal control freak with temper issues, but he'd be an infinitely better choice for PM than anyone on either front bench at the moment.
The length of time young doctors from outside the EU are able to stay in Britain under the scheme may also rise from two to three years, according to well-placed sources.
I think we should give skilled immigrants a route to residence then citizenship - asking them to come here for 3 years then bugger off is insulting.
I never heard Mrs May say “But, if you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere. You don't understand what citizenship means.”
It was just on radio. It's quite an insight and explains a lot.
You realise in context it was about rich tax dodgers.
The main insight is that May and her inner circle didn't understand how soundbites work.
Either that or they understood it very well. A dog whistle with plausible deniability.
I never heard Mrs May say “But, if you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere. You don't understand what citizenship means.”
It was just on radio. It's quite an insight and explains a lot.
You realise in context it was about rich tax dodgers.
The main insight is that May and her inner circle didn't understand how soundbites work.
Either that or they understood it very well. A dog whistle with plausible deniability.
A bit like British Jobs For British Workers.
The fact you could call it Theresa May's rootless cosmopolitan moment.
This is so far outside of May's comfort zone that like Paul McCartney she may be dead and have been replaced by a lookalike. She doesn't do people, can't do normal, can't debate or build an argument. Yet despite the number of her MPs opposing it being in triple digits and increasing every day, she is "touring" hand picked locations, writing begging letters, handing out gongs and now has been persuaded to do the head to head debate she wussed out of in 2017.
And after all this? The deal gets destroyed in the Commons and she gets resigned. Prime Ministers should not beg. Should not plead. The proposal either has merit or it doesn't. And it doesn't. At which point its in everyone's interest - hers, the party, the country, and the history books to go. Not get caught up pleading for which broadcaster and which TV show to precede for her begging fest.
Would Thatcher have done this? Blair? Major FFS?
I don't care what they would have done, we have what politicians we have and we live with that. May is our PM now, however inadequate a PM she may be, and the idea she should not plead to save dignity is preposterous. I agree she has to go as PM, but until she does she has to do the job as well as she can, and if she believes something is in the national interest she should make that case as strongly as she can. She will fail. So what? She will have done her best, at the end.
I don't even understand your point that she should not plead because the plan either has merit or it doesn't. She believes it does, and is making the case. Because she will fail you call her making that case pleading, but the alternative is she should not do everything she can to promote the merits of her case. Should LDs not plead with the public because they're not getting a majority government ever? If this is a matter of the nature of the office, should a PM behind in the polls not plead with the public to vote for them because a PM does not plead?
Of all the criticisms May deserves, for not even trying to build consensus earlier, for being bad at persuading people, for kicking the can on a decision even within her own Cabinet right up to the end, etc etc, the criticism that she is trying too hard to sell what she thinks is the best plan, however wrong she may be, is the most ridiculous. Particularly when it is based around the idea the our head of government should not be reduced, for shame, for arguing a difficult case sometimes.
I think the idea that someone shouldn't try to convince the public because if(when) they fail it will be demeaning to be a little odd. She thinks, however incorrectly, that her deal is the best option, or at least the only sensible option. She should try to convince people of that. It's not like she will be PM for too much longer, what does she have to lose at least making the attempt. And it certainly doesn't demean the office to 'beg' it. Are PMs of coalitions demeaned because they have to try to persuade another party, are PMs of minority government's demeaned?
Not even trying to persuade people would be more demeaning, as bad as she is as it, as even as there are other things she could try, there are more important things than preserving the dignity of one's office.
This is so far outside of May's comfort zone that like Paul McCartney she may be dead and have been replaced by a lookalike. She doesn't do people, can't do normal, can't debate or build an argument. Yet despite the number of her MPs opposing it being in triple digits and increasing every day, she is "touring" hand picked locations, writing begging letters, handing out gongs and now has been persuaded to do the head to head debate she wussed out of in 2017.
And after all this? The deal gets destroyed in the Commons and she gets resigned. Prime Ministers should not beg. Should not plead. The proposal either has merit or it doesn't. And it doesn't. At which point its in everyone's interest - hers, the party, the country, and the history books to go. Not get caught up pleading for which broadcaster and which TV show to precede for her begging fest.
Would Thatcher have done this? Blair? Major FFS?
Remember all of the Tory posters here on PB who would rip the piss out of Gordon Brown, day in, day out?
They must be wishing that the current PM was half as able as Gordon.
Brown seemed ok. Goodness only knows how he'd have handled this situation though.
I really do not think she expects the deal to get anywhere near approval but needs to get parliament to expose its positions and contradictions in order to find some consensus for the way forward
I doubt she wants to stop this deal being voted on and so she has to give it her backing and of course it will be a base for what happens next
I think we're getting somewhere. The debate will force Corbyn to come up with something and we'll see how much real support the notion of a new referendum has.
May's last card is the lack of a majority for anything else will force people either to contemplate the consequences of No Deal (and I certainly don't buy any of the apocalyptic nonsense Carney was trying to sell yesterday) and let us drift to that point or to revisit the May deal, recognise its imperfections, recognise it is quite literally the only alternative and vote it through.
I really do not think she expects the deal to get anywhere near approval but needs to get parliament to expose its positions and contradictions in order to find some consensus for the way forward
I doubt she wants to stop this deal being voted on and so she has to give it her backing and of course it will be a base for what happens next
I think we're getting somewhere. The debate will force Corbyn to come up with something and we'll see how much real support the notion of a new referendum has.
May's last card is the lack of a majority for anything else will force people either to contemplate the consequences of No Deal (and I certainly don't buy any of the apocalyptic nonsense Carney was trying to sell yesterday) and let us drift to that point or to revisit the May deal, recognise its imperfections, recognise it is quite literally the only alternative and vote it through.
I think that may always have been the plan, but it was based on thinking it would be at least a little closer in the initial vote on her deal. May surviving that vote or not, I don't see how the Commons revisits something they seemingly intend to comprehensively reject.
I think that may always have been the plan, but it was based on thinking it would be at least a little closer in the initial vote on her deal. May surviving that vote or not, I don't see how the Commons revisits something they seemingly intend to comprehensively reject.
Fear, my friend, cold hard fear transitioning to panic as the prospect of No Deal heaves into view. We already have people talking about food shortages, power cuts and worse of all, a fall in house prices.
If you get people scared enough, they will agree to anything.
I think the idea that someone shouldn't try to convince the public because if(when) they fail it will be demeaning to be a little odd. She thinks, however incorrectly, that her deal is the best option, or at least the only sensible option. She should try to convince people of that. It's not like she will be PM for too much longer, what does she have to lose at least making the attempt. And it certainly doesn't demean the office to 'beg' it. Are PMs of coalitions demeaned because they have to try to persuade another party, are PMs of minority government's demeaned?
Not even trying to persuade people would be more demeaning, as bad as she is as it, as even as there are other things she could try, there are more important things than preserving the dignity of one's office.
This is so far outside of May's comfort zone that like Paul McCartney she may be dead and have been replaced by a lookalike. She doesn't do people, can't do normal, can't debate or build an argument. Yet despite the number of her MPs opposing it being in triple digits and increasing every day, she is "touring" hand picked locations, writing begging letters, handing out gongs and now has been persuaded to do the head to head debate she wussed out of in 2017.
And after all this? The deal gets destroyed in the Commons and she gets resigned. Prime Ministers should not beg. Should not plead. The proposal either has merit or it doesn't. And it doesn't. At which point its in everyone's interest - hers, the party, the country, and the history books to go. Not get caught up pleading for which broadcaster and which TV show to precede for her begging fest.
Would Thatcher have done this? Blair? Major FFS?
Remember all of the Tory posters here on PB who would rip the piss out of Gordon Brown, day in, day out?
They must be wishing that the current PM was half as able as Gordon.
I think that may always have been the plan, but it was based on thinking it would be at least a little closer in the initial vote on her deal. May surviving that vote or not, I don't see how the Commons revisits something they seemingly intend to comprehensively reject.
Fear, my friend, cold hard fear transitioning to panic as the prospect of No Deal heaves into view. We already have people talking about food shortages, power cuts and worse of all, a fall in house prices.
If you get people scared enough, they will agree to anything.
Sure, it often works, but we're talking needing to flip, what, 50-60 Tory MPs and 10-20 Labour ones? Most of whom simply do not believe, no matter what anyone says, that no deal is a real possibility.
OK, maybe they are bluffing about that, but I'm not so sure - I don't think no deal is feared as much by our MPs as so many of them might claim, as their actions don't suggest their fear it.
Edit: Of course, even if we don't think it would work, do they get enough waverers to at least consider it again? IDK. WHat if they reject it again?
Mr Corbyn claimed he preferred ITV's bid out of "respect" for viewers who wanted to watch the I'm A Celebrity... Get Me Out Of Here! final on ITV the same evening - 9 December. "I want to watch it myself," he said.
About as believable as when Gordon brown said he was a big arctic monkeys fan.
Brown actually said, when forced to listen to some Arctic Monkeys music, 'It would certainly wake me up.'
Which was interpreted by the Press as 'Brown wakes up to Arctic Monkeys'.
Fake news from the Tory press. Up there with Michael Foot's British Warm.
Fair enough..although wasn't just "Tory Press" that jumped on it. He also claimed to be a Pop Idol fan...what's his excuse for that?
The quote I can find is him saying '“Pop Idol, X Factor, Fame Academy, there’s so much talent out there. It’s great to see people getting the chance to show their potential.” Which doesn't suggest he was a 'fan'. Just aware.
For avoidance of doubt, I'm not a Brown fan. And wasn't a Foot one, come to that.
I think that may always have been the plan, but it was based on thinking it would be at least a little closer in the initial vote on her deal. May surviving that vote or not, I don't see how the Commons revisits something they seemingly intend to comprehensively reject.
Fear, my friend, cold hard fear transitioning to panic as the prospect of No Deal heaves into view. We already have people talking about food shortages, power cuts and worse of all, a fall in house prices.
If you get people scared enough, they will agree to anything.
Sure, it often works, but we're talking needing to flip, what, 50-60 Tory MPs and 10-20 Labour ones? Most of whom simply do not believe, no matter what anyone says, that no deal is a real possibility.
OK, maybe they are bluffing about that, but I'm not so sure - I don't think no deal is feared as much by our MPs as so many of them might claim, as their actions don't suggest their fear it.
Edit: Of course, even if we don't think it would work, do they get enough waverers to at least consider it again? IDK. WHat if they reject it again?
May just keeps pushing her Deal through until the country faces living off locusts and rats
What we need to remember is that as a Remainer, even May doesn’t support May's deal.
Er, why is that? She voted and campaigned for Remain in 2016, it does not follow that she is working toward Remain now.
As far as I am aware, May has never repudiated her support for Remain.
I'm sure she still believes that was the right choice. But that doesn't means she doesn't think this deal, which many think is a bit too close to the EU after all while still being Leave, is the best option. For the Tories at the least.
I think the idea that someone shouldn't try to convince the public because if(when) they fail it will be demeaning to be a little odd. She thinks, however incorrectly, that her deal is the best option, or at least the only sensible option. She should try to convince people of that. It's not like she will be PM for too much longer, what does she have to lose at least making the attempt. And it certainly doesn't demean the office to 'beg' it. Are PMs of coalitions demeaned because they have to try to persuade another party, are PMs of minority government's demeaned?
Not even trying to persuade people would be more demeaning, as bad as she is as it, as even as there are other things she could try, there are more important things than preserving the dignity of one's office.
This is so far outside of May's comfort zone that like Paul McCartney she may be dead and have been replaced by a lookalike. She doesn't do people, can't do normal, can't debate or build an argument. Yet despite the number of her MPs opposing it being in triple digits and increasing every day, she is "touring" hand picked locations, writing begging letters, handing out gongs and now has been persuaded to do the head to head debate she wussed out of in 2017.
And after all this? The deal gets destroyed in the Commons and she gets resigned. Prime Ministers should not beg. Should not plead. The proposal either has merit or it doesn't. And it doesn't. At which point its in everyone's interest - hers, the party, the country, and the history books to go. Not get caught up pleading for which broadcaster and which TV show to precede for her begging fest.
Would Thatcher have done this? Blair? Major FFS?
Remember all of the Tory posters here on PB who would rip the piss out of Gordon Brown, day in, day out?
They must be wishing that the current PM was half as able as Gordon.
What Deal did Brown get with the EU other than Lisbon he snuck into sign when everyone had left?
I think that may always have been the plan, but it was based on thinking it would be at least a little closer in the initial vote on her deal. May surviving that vote or not, I don't see how the Commons revisits something they seemingly intend to comprehensively reject.
Fear, my friend, cold hard fear transitioning to panic as the prospect of No Deal heaves into view. We already have people talking about food shortages, power cuts and worse of all, a fall in house prices.
If you get people scared enough, they will agree to anything.
Sure, it often works, but we're talking needing to flip, what, 50-60 Tory MPs and 10-20 Labour ones? Most of whom simply do not believe, no matter what anyone says, that no deal is a real possibility.
OK, maybe they are bluffing about that, but I'm not so sure - I don't think no deal is feared as much by our MPs as so many of them might claim, as their actions don't suggest their fear it.
Edit: Of course, even if we don't think it would work, do they get enough waverers to at least consider it again? IDK. WHat if they reject it again?
May just keeps pushing her Deal through until the country faces living off locusts and rats
We'll have to import the locusts, though. How, with the ports clogged?
Never tried locust, but deep fried grasshopper is OK, although the legs stick in one's teeth.
I think that may always have been the plan, but it was based on thinking it would be at least a little closer in the initial vote on her deal. May surviving that vote or not, I don't see how the Commons revisits something they seemingly intend to comprehensively reject.
Fear, my friend, cold hard fear transitioning to panic as the prospect of No Deal heaves into view. We already have people talking about food shortages, power cuts and worse of all, a fall in house prices.
If you get people scared enough, they will agree to anything.
Sure, it often works, but we're talking needing to flip, what, 50-60 Tory MPs and 10-20 Labour ones? Most of whom simply do not believe, no matter what anyone says, that no deal is a real possibility.
OK, maybe they are bluffing about that, but I'm not so sure - I don't think no deal is feared as much by our MPs as so many of them might claim, as their actions don't suggest their fear it.
Edit: Of course, even if we don't think it would work, do they get enough waverers to at least consider it again? IDK. WHat if they reject it again?
May just keeps pushing her Deal through until the country faces living off locusts and rats
I understand locusts to be very nutritious, perhaps this could lead to a positive cultural change in our nation.
I think the idea that someone shouldn't try to convince the public because if(when) they fail it will be demeaning to be a little odd. She thinks, however incorrectly, that her deal is the best option, or at least the only sensible option. She should try to convince people of that. It's not like she will be PM for too much longer, what does she have to lose at least making the attempt. And it certainly doesn't demean the office to 'beg' it. Are PMs of coalitions demeaned because they have to try to persuade another party, are PMs of minority government's demeaned?
Not even trying to persuade people would be more demeaning, as bad as she is as it, as even as there are other things she could try, there are more important things than preserving the dignity of one's office.
This is so far outside of May's comfort zone that like Paul McCartney she may be dead and have been replaced by a lookalike. She doesn't do people, can't do normal, can't debate or build an argument. Yet despite the number of her MPs opposing it being in triple digits and increasing every day, she is "touring" hand picked locations, writing begging letters, handing out gongs and now has been persuaded to do the head to head debate she wussed out of in 2017.
And after all this? The deal gets destroyed in the Commons and she gets resigned. Prime Ministers should not beg. Should not plead. The proposal either has merit or it doesn't. And it doesn't. At which point its in everyone's interest - hers, the party, the country, and the history books to go. Not get caught up pleading for which broadcaster and which TV show to precede for her begging fest.
Would Thatcher have done this? Blair? Major FFS?
Remember all of the Tory posters here on PB who would rip the piss out of Gordon Brown, day in, day out?
They must be wishing that the current PM was half as able as Gordon.
What Deal did Brown get with the EU other than Lisbon he snuck into sign when everyone had left?
Which, surely, played a considerable part in getting us to where we are now.
What we need to remember is that as a Remainer, even May doesn’t support May's deal.
Er, why is that? She voted and campaigned for Remain in 2016, it does not follow that she is working toward Remain now.
As far as I am aware, May has never repudiated her support for Remain.
I'm sure she still believes that was the right choice. But that doesn't means she doesn't think this deal, which many think is a bit too close to the EU after all while still being Leave, is the best option. For the Tories at the least.
Thinking it is the best version of Leave isn't the same as thinking it is the right thing full stop.
May just keeps pushing her Deal through until the country faces living off locusts and rats
Seriously?
Is all you now have ludicrous exaggerations based on Carney's Project Fear?
Many are now saying the claims for No Deal have been overbalown perhaps but the truth is the Government has negligently failed to do adequate contingency planning for a No Deal. IF there are any problems after 29/3/19 we can lay them directly at the Government's door who will have, through their own incompetence and ineptitude, put us all at unnecessary risk.
I think the idea that someone shouldn't try to convince the public because if(when) they fail it will be demeaning to be a little odd. She thinks, however incorrectly, that her deal is the best option, or at least the only sensible option. She should try to convince people of that. It's not like she will be PM for too much longer, what does she have to lose at least making the attempt. And it certainly doesn't demean the office to 'beg' it. Are PMs of coalitions demeaned because they have to try to persuade another party, are PMs of minority government's demeaned?
Not even trying to persuade people would be more demeaning, as bad as she is as it, as even as there are other things she could try, there are more important things than preserving the dignity of one's office.
This is so far outside of May's comfort zone that like Paul McCartney she may be dead and have been replaced by a lookalike. She doesn't do people, can't do normal, can't debate or build an argument. Yet despite the number of her MPs opposing it being in triple digits and increasing every day, she is "touring" hand picked locations, writing begging letters, handing out gongs and now has been persuaded to do the head to head debate she wussed out of in 2017.
And after all this? The deal gets destroyed in the Commons and she gets resigned. Prime Ministers should not beg. Should not plead. The proposal either has merit or it doesn't. And it doesn't. At which point its in everyone's interest - hers, the party, the country, and the history books to go. Not get caught up pleading for which broadcaster and which TV show to precede for her begging fest.
Would Thatcher have done this? Blair? Major FFS?
Remember all of the Tory posters here on PB who would rip the piss out of Gordon Brown, day in, day out?
They must be wishing that the current PM was half as able as Gordon.
What Deal did Brown get with the EU other than Lisbon he snuck into sign when everyone had left?
Which, surely, played a considerable part in getting us to where we are now.
Brown was playing a long game. Destruction of the Tory Party isn't something you achieve overnight.
This is so far outside of May's comfort zone that like Paul McCartney she may be dead and have been replaced by a lookalike. She doesn't do people, can't do normal, can't debate or build an argument. Yet despite the number of her MPs opposing it being in triple digits and increasing every day, she is "touring" hand picked locations, writing begging letters, handing out gongs and now has been persuaded to do the head to head debate she wussed out of in 2017.
And after all this? The deal gets destroyed in the Commons and she gets resigned. Prime Ministers should not beg. Should not plead. The proposal either has merit or it doesn't. And it doesn't. At which point its in everyone's interest - hers, the party, the country, and the history books to go. Not get caught up pleading for which broadcaster and which TV show to precede for her begging fest.
Would Thatcher have done this? Blair? Major FFS?
I don't care what they would have done, we have what politicians we have and we live with that. May is our PM now, however inadequate a PM she may be, and the idea she should not plead to save dignity is preposterous. I agree she has to go as PM, but until she does she has to do the job as well as she can, and if she believes something is in the national interest she should make that case as strongly as she can. She will fail. So what? She will have done her best, at the end.
I don't even understand your point that she should not plead because the plan either has merit or it doesn't. She believes it does, and is making the case. Because she will fail you call her making that case pleading, but the alternative is she should not do everything she can to promote the merits of her case. Should LDs not plead with the public because they're not getting a majority government ever? If this is a matter of the nature of the office, should a PM behind in the polls not plead with the public to vote for them because a PM does not plead?
Of all the criticisms May deserves, for not even trying to build consensus earlier, for being bad at persuading people, for kicking the can on a decision even within her own Cabinet right up to the end, etc etc, the criticism that she is trying too hard to sell what she thinks is the best plan, however wrong she may be, is the most ridiculous. Particularly when it is based around the idea the our head of government should not be reduced, for shame, for arguing a difficult case sometimes.
She is positioning herself well for the reckoning that is coming down the tracks towards Tory politicians.
I think that may always have been the plan, but it was based on thinking it would be at least a little closer in the initial vote on her deal. May surviving that vote or not, I don't see how the Commons revisits something they seemingly intend to comprehensively reject.
Fear, my friend, cold hard fear transitioning to panic as the prospect of No Deal heaves into view. We already have people talking about food shortages, power cuts and worse of all, a fall in house prices.
If you get people scared enough, they will agree to anything.
Sure, it often works, but we're talking needing to flip, what, 50-60 Tory MPs and 10-20 Labour ones? Most of whom simply do not believe, no matter what anyone says, that no deal is a real possibility.
OK, maybe they are bluffing about that, but I'm not so sure - I don't think no deal is feared as much by our MPs as so many of them might claim, as their actions don't suggest their fear it.
Edit: Of course, even if we don't think it would work, do they get enough waverers to at least consider it again? IDK. WHat if they reject it again?
May just keeps pushing her Deal through until the country faces living off locusts and rats
We'll have to import the locusts, though. How, with the ports clogged?
Never tried locust, but deep fried grasshopper is OK, although the legs stick in one's teeth.
We're constantly told that the Brexit voters don't have any teeth left, so no problem there then....
Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV
That is labour's policy right there.
She is scared to meet the people!
Are you serious. She has been meeting the public almost daily, appearing on the media, in parliament and more to follow.
Maybe your bias showing
No public at all met in Scotland yet again G, she has yet to ever talk to anyone from the public in Scotland ever. She flew in , limousine to a Tory donor's factory, rudeness of not even advising local MP's , then straight back to helicopter in darkened cars and whisked away.
Only reason for it was to pretend she was meeting public, the tame media were allowed in and the only newspaper that supports independence was banned on her orders. Is it any wonder she is hated in Scotland.
May win the highest number of Tory seats in Scotland for decades
What we need to remember is that as a Remainer, even May doesn’t support May's deal.
Er, why is that? She voted and campaigned for Remain in 2016, it does not follow that she is working toward Remain now.
It is ever clearer that she is committed to locking us ever tighter into a one-sided relationship with the EU which the UK cannot unilaterally leave and will Remain within forever if they have their way. It is not even Remain, it is worse than Remain.
The author of her Lancaster House speech is certainly of the view that she has delivered next to nothing that she promised and simply capitulated in negotiations. So either as a 2016 Remainer she never seriously meant what she said, or she has changed her view towards Remain since.
"When the proposal is presented to Parliament, MPs should ask themselves six questions. Does it leave us in control of our own laws? Does it imperil the Union, by creating new barriers to living and doing business within the UK? Does it give us control of immigration? Does it allow us to negotiate a trade deal with the EU? Does it allow us to strike trade deals elsewhere? And does it end Britain’s annual payments to the EU budget? These are not random tests set by the European Research Group. They are the key principles the Prime Minister set out in her Lancaster House speech, which I drafted for her, in January 2017. She will be able to argue that the agreement, as it stands, wins back control of immigration, although if a deal on the future relationship is struck later, we will see what compromises are made on that front. But the draft agreement fails the remaining Lancaster House tests. As Sabine Weyand, the European Commission negotiator, said in private, the agreement “requires the customs union as the basis of the future relationship”. The UK must align its rules with the EU, “but the EU will retain all the controls”. In sum, Ms Weyand boasted, Brussels “retains its leverage”."
Yet the SNP require permanent Single Market, Corbyn is only committed to permanent Customs Union. Though it would serve the ERG right if they reject the Deal, end up with a Corbyn minority government and effectively staying in the EU in all but name
May just keeps pushing her Deal through until the country faces living off locusts and rats
Seriously?
Is all you now have ludicrous exaggerations based on Carney's Project Fear?
Many are now saying the claims for No Deal have been overbalown perhaps but the truth is the Government has negligently failed to do adequate contingency planning for a No Deal. IF there are any problems after 29/3/19 we can lay them directly at the Government's door who will have, through their own incompetence and ineptitude, put us all at unnecessary risk.
Nope we can lay them at the door of Labour and the ERG who will either bring about No Deal and the worst recession since the 1930s or a BINO Brexit or Remain in EUref2 and a resurgent far right led by Tommy Robinson taking over where UKIP left off.
Talking about lack of preparation for No Deal is like saying you should have booked a hospital appointment before you cut your arm off
Erehwon is also an incredibly expensive Los Angles "supermarket" for people who think Whole Foods is too downmarket.
Erewhon is also a star Republic in David Weber's excellent science fiction series about Honor Harrington.
Erewhon was originally settled by a group of successful interstellar criminals. Initially, the planet and its enterprises were used as a front for organized crime. Its capital city is Maytag.
Yet the SNP require permanent Single Market, Corbyn is only committed to permanent Customs Union. Though it would serve the ERG right if they reject the Deal, end up with a Corbyn minority government and effectively staying in the EU in all but name
Oh, I'm sure the SNP will just come to heel and do what Labour wants, they are notoriously easy to deal with.
Just arrived in to hear Sky reporting TM and the BBC have agreed the debate with an independent panel cross examining the leaders and for them to say Corbyn is concened he doesn't know the detail and wants it on ITV
That is labour's policy right there.
She is scared to meet the people!
Are you serious. She has been meeting the public almost daily, appearing on the media, in parliament and more to follow.
Maybe your bias showing
She "meets" the people in controlled environments like factories where nobody is going to risk being sacked. Typical that she wants to hobnob with the elite than answer the questions of ordinary people. She is frit!
Your prejeudice is obvious. She was out with the public on ITV Wales last week and she got a good reception and support from just ordinary voters - so much so I was surprised
I'd guess that Corbyn and TMay have about as much contact with ordinary members of the public as each other.
Give over , a current PM for all sorts of reasons , namely security, never gets the chance to hear genuine unrestricted views from members of the public.
This BBC fake vicar story is the very stupid gift that keeps on giving.
First, we find out the BBC is so out of touch, it has to outsource the finding of "ordinary people" prepared to support this deal to an agency that supplies "representative focus groups" (i.e. actors).
Then, remember that this was LITERALLY the plot of an episode of The Thick of It.
Then we discover that the BBC gave her a dog collar to wear, even though she's not a CoE vicar, because they wanted us to *think* she was a vicar. That's a lovely, manipulative, dishonest touch.
Then we discover that she's a certified, ranting, far right nut bag.
How many possible ways could the BBC find to shit the bed with its clothes on over one Newsnight guest?
Comments
The vanity of small differences will be the debate's hallmark if it doesn't include someone strongly for the EU and someone who actually wants to leave properly, and not just in name only.
The Corbyn/May position reminds me a bit of the Cameron/Miliband approach to intervention in Syria. They had practically identical positions but one wanted a blue plan and one a red plan, and neither ended up passing.
Not even trying to persuade people would be more demeaning, as bad as she is as it, as even as there are other things she could try, there are more important things than preserving the dignity of one's office.
Actually quite a fit for Sky
https://twitter.com/howe_p/status/1068099026233495554
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1068198921959325696
Next, it was a quick meet and greet to prepared stall holders, Mrs May stopping to say hello to school children before a tour of the exhibition halls, and time to view cows in the show ring.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/words-theresa-used-most-flying-15471684
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/28/theresa-may-support-brexit-deal
The government is set to relax its immigration rules to let more foreign doctors come to Britain to help tackle the NHS’s widespread shortages of medics, the Guardian can reveal.
Ministers have agreed to significantly expand the 1,500 doctors a year allowed to come and work in Britain under the medical training initiative (MTI). The move could result in the maximum number of non-EU medics able to come rising to as many as 3,000.
The length of time young doctors from outside the EU are able to stay in Britain under the scheme may also rise from two to three years, according to well-placed sources.
The change comes as the government is under pressure to explain how its intention to move to a new immigration system after Brexit, with right of entry dependent on skills, will help alleviate NHS under-staffing.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/29/government-set-to-relax-restrictions-on-non-eu-doctors
The book also reveals how Margaret Thatcher picked the east west route over a proposed Chelsea to Hackney route with the words 'Hackney! Hackney! Do you know what sort of people live out in Hackney? They are not Conservative voters. Who wants to go to Hackney?'
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/london/book-reveals-how-boris-overruled-bid-to-name-crossrail-after-churchill-a4003666.html?amp
"I want to watch it myself," he said.
About as believable as when Gordon brown said he was a big arctic monkeys fan.
It is almost amusing to note as the piece does that the effort May is finally displaying does appear to be approved of, but it is so fruitless because there was not enough effort to take a decision sooner and get MPs on board.
It was just on radio. It's quite an insight and explains a lot. I think she's losing it
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/ed-burke-fbi-federal-agents-city-hall-council/
Animal, mineral or vegetable, I'll do anything to anything"
Which was interpreted by the Press as 'Brown wakes up to Arctic Monkeys'.
Fake news from the Tory press. Up there with Michael Foot's British Warm.
I doubt she wants to stop this deal being voted on and so she has to give it her backing and of course it will be a base for what happens next
And after all this? The deal gets destroyed in the Commons and she gets resigned. Prime Ministers should not beg. Should not plead. The proposal either has merit or it doesn't. And it doesn't. At which point its in everyone's interest - hers, the party, the country, and the history books to go. Not get caught up pleading for which broadcaster and which TV show to precede for her begging fest.
Would Thatcher have done this? Blair? Major FFS?
https://youtu.be/vWPVvGH_dlo
They must be wishing that the current PM was half as able as Gordon.
Politicians lying about liking stuff they have no idea, always a disaster waiting to happen.
The fact you could call it Theresa May's rootless cosmopolitan moment.
I don't even understand your point that she should not plead because the plan either has merit or it doesn't. She believes it does, and is making the case. Because she will fail you call her making that case pleading, but the alternative is she should not do everything she can to promote the merits of her case. Should LDs not plead with the public because they're not getting a majority government ever? If this is a matter of the nature of the office, should a PM behind in the polls not plead with the public to vote for them because a PM does not plead?
Of all the criticisms May deserves, for not even trying to build consensus earlier, for being bad at persuading people, for kicking the can on a decision even within her own Cabinet right up to the end, etc etc, the criticism that she is trying too hard to sell what she thinks is the best plan, however wrong she may be, is the most ridiculous. Particularly when it is based around the idea the our head of government should not be reduced, for shame, for arguing a difficult case sometimes.
[EDIT: Didn't the russkies use exploding dogs to take down tanks in WW2?]
May's last card is the lack of a majority for anything else will force people either to contemplate the consequences of No Deal (and I certainly don't buy any of the apocalyptic nonsense Carney was trying to sell yesterday) and let us drift to that point or to revisit the May deal, recognise its imperfections, recognise it is quite literally the only alternative and vote it through.
If you get people scared enough, they will agree to anything.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/29/trump-rosenstein-belongs-in-jail-1026104
Although I don't think Gary Lineker could be regarded as impartial.
OK, maybe they are bluffing about that, but I'm not so sure - I don't think no deal is feared as much by our MPs as so many of them might claim, as their actions don't suggest their fear it.
Edit: Of course, even if we don't think it would work, do they get enough waverers to at least consider it again? IDK. WHat if they reject it again?
Which doesn't suggest he was a 'fan'. Just aware.
For avoidance of doubt, I'm not a Brown fan. And wasn't a Foot one, come to that.
Never tried locust, but deep fried grasshopper is OK, although the legs stick in one's teeth.
Is all you now have ludicrous exaggerations based on Carney's Project Fear?
Many are now saying the claims for No Deal have been overbalown perhaps but the truth is the Government has negligently failed to do adequate contingency planning for a No Deal. IF there are any problems after 29/3/19 we can lay them directly at the Government's door who will have, through their own incompetence and ineptitude, put us all at unnecessary risk.
The author of her Lancaster House speech is certainly of the view that she has delivered next to nothing that she promised and simply capitulated in negotiations. So either as a 2016 Remainer she never seriously meant what she said, or she has changed her view towards Remain since.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/14/not-compromise-capitulation-prime-minister/
"When the proposal is presented to Parliament, MPs should ask themselves six questions. Does it leave us in control of our own laws? Does it imperil the Union, by creating new barriers to living and doing business within the UK? Does it give us control of immigration? Does it allow us to negotiate a trade deal with the EU? Does it allow us to strike trade deals elsewhere? And does it end Britain’s annual payments to the EU budget? These are not random tests set by the European Research Group. They are the key principles the Prime Minister set out in her Lancaster House speech, which I drafted for her, in January 2017. She will be able to argue that the agreement, as it stands, wins back control of immigration, although if a deal on the future relationship is struck later, we will see what compromises are made on that front. But the draft agreement fails the remaining Lancaster House tests. As Sabine Weyand, the European Commission negotiator, said in private, the agreement “requires the customs union as the basis of the future relationship”. The UK must align its rules with the EU, “but the EU will retain all the controls”. In sum, Ms Weyand boasted, Brussels “retains its leverage”."
Talking about lack of preparation for No Deal is like saying you should have booked a hospital appointment before you cut your arm off
Erewhon was originally settled by a group of successful interstellar criminals. Initially, the planet and its enterprises were used as a front for organized crime. Its capital city is Maytag.
Corbyn will hear more riding his bike from home.
First, we find out the BBC is so out of touch, it has to outsource the finding of "ordinary people" prepared to support this deal to an agency that supplies "representative focus groups" (i.e. actors).
Then, remember that this was LITERALLY the plot of an episode of The Thick of It.
Then we discover that the BBC gave her a dog collar to wear, even though she's not a CoE vicar, because they wanted us to *think* she was a vicar. That's a lovely, manipulative, dishonest touch.
Then we discover that she's a certified, ranting, far right nut bag.
How many possible ways could the BBC find to shit the bed with its clothes on over one Newsnight guest?
https://darwinawards.com/legends/legends1999-09.html