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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some comfort for TMay from YouGov – 56% of those polled have f

SystemSystem Posts: 11,007
edited January 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some comfort for TMay from YouGov – 56% of those polled have felt sympathy for her

Sympathy for Theresa May has risen over the past few months, but only slightly. 56% of Brits now say they have felt sympathy for her at some point (up 7% from September), but 37% say they never have https://t.co/DOSE0MCAhV pic.twitter.com/AA2wdR8uD6

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,945
    First. Sympathy is a peculiar metric. You can feel sympathy for a drowning spider.
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    I have sympathy for stupid people for not being as intelligent as me, doesn't mean I'll vote for them.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027

    Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.

    When it comes to Brexit, achieving nothing would be the greatest success imaginable and would secure her place in history.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.

    I'm not so sure. Let's say, purely hypothetically, that a country has two main, opposing political leaders. Both are viewed as hopeless. One elicits sympathy and one does not. In the event of, to pick a couple of examples out of thin air, a general election or a referendum, who's likely to attract the most votes?
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,251
    edited January 2019

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited January 2019

    Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.

    Sympathy is not the same as pity, though. This could be more "she's doing a pretty good job in bloody difficult circumstances" than "poor thing, she's not up it, it must be awful for her".
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Every time I get a first it gets deleted.

    I demand a judge-led inquiry.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226
    Tom Watson's closing speech hit her where it hurt.
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    Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.

    Sympathy is not the same as pity, though. This could be more "she's doing a pretty good job in bloody difficult circumstances" than "poor thing, she's not up it, it must be awful for her".
    I think the first is true of most in that poll
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited January 2019
    Far more crucial is the news that Boris is a fu*king liar! The news is full of it.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited January 2019
    IanB2 said:

    Tom Watson's closing speech hit her where it hurt.

    ... except that the impact was rather dulled by the fact that Labour don't have any better ideas. What's the point of saying 'get out of the way and leave it to us' if it's clear you haven't got a clue what to do differently?
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    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited January 2019
    FPT; kyf_100

    re lab reacting to a GE by offering a referendum in the manifesto.

    I did dismiss your post (a GE offering a ref? Why not just say what you want and do it? Brenda from bristol reaction.. etc)

    But thinking more about it... Labour could use Brexit as a bribe for their real agenda quite successfully.....

    Something like: Vote Lab and we'll hold an immediate referendum, offering;

    A ) No Deal Brexit. Extend A50 for 12 months & throw £100bn at no deal preps
    B ) Remain. Spend the £100bn on social housing / social care / Laboury stuff.

    Money from borrowing and moderate tax increases.

    Corbyn will implement the result, as advised by the British people.

    Could work to unite lab factions & win back the WWC Brexit heartlands?
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited January 2019
    FPT because is took me bloody ages to get the image to work.
    viewcode said:

    Whenever I see Mr weatherspoon I always think he's just shat himself and it's dribbling down his leg. Seriously. Next time you see him on telly just look at him.

    He has a peculiar face which is two sizes too small for his head.
    image
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226

    IanB2 said:

    Tom Watson's closing speech hit her where it hurt.

    ... except that the impact was rather dulled by the fact that Labour don't have any better ideas. What's the point of saying 'get out of the way and leave it to us' if it's clear you haven't got a clue what to do differently?
    For sure.

    Nevertheless you could see it all on her face as he outlined her failings as a leader.
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.

    Sympathy is not the same as pity, though. This could be more "she's doing a pretty good job in bloody difficult circumstances" than "poor thing, she's not up it, it must be awful for her".
    I mean, you'd have to be drinking deep from the May koolaid to thinking she was in any way "up to it" by this point.

    We have trapped a tin-eared automaton with a stunted imagination loop and malfunctioning empathy circuit with skillfully navigating the single most complex political maze in my life time.

    It will demand great agility, flexibility and humanity to resolve this situation satisfactorily. May has none.

    To make things worse, Parliament is actively trying to box her in, to ensure she has no possible escape route that doesn't end in disaster.

    In all honestly, I find locking May in an impossible task, to which she is almost pathologically unsuited, by appealing to her vast reserves of bloody-minded stubbornness, is an act of the most delightfully amusing cruelty.
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    edited January 2019
    Commission spokesman: "President Juncker spoke PM May on the phone. It was an exchange of information on both sides. The two agreed to stay in touch."

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    "We really must stay in touch" = "If you call me again I'm blocking your number and calling the police"
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    But what of the prime minister who Johnson is angling to replace? On Wednesday night, Theresa May treated us to yet another of those occasions where she emerges out of the No 10 door in signature angular fashion, says precisely nothing of substance, then jerks back in again. How many episodes of this show are there going to be? Far be it from me to criticise the Bagpuss producers, but the decision to spin off the character of Professor Yaffle’s wife isn’t really working.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/18/theresa-may-do-anything-for-love-brexit
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,631
    Anorak said:

    FPT because is took me bloody ages to get the image to work.

    viewcode said:

    Whenever I see Mr weatherspoon I always think he's just shat himself and it's dribbling down his leg. Seriously. Next time you see him on telly just look at him.

    He has a peculiar face which is two sizes too small for his head.
    image
    :)
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,251
    edited January 2019
    About that labour recovery in Scotland Justin keeps claiming

    Just had a tweet from the Daily Post (North Wales news) that the Scottish labour party have been called out for releasing a promotional video featuring scenes filmed in ..........Wales

    The video for social media shows Richard Leonard discussing labour's vision for Scotland

    It says 'our Country is run by an elite few. It belongs to all of us. Watch and share the three minute 'Vision for Scotland' promotion featuring clips of Scottish scenery, families and businesses'

    At 1.25 mins in the camera pans out to a striking shot of a mountain range ........ Tryfan in the Snowdonia National Park

    Scotland has magnificient mountains and scenery - maybe next time film in Scotland
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    OK, a maths question. According to the graph the percentage of people 'never' having had sympathy for her has gone up. Impossible, surely?
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987

    Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.

    As Machiavelli might have said "One should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, it is much safer to be feared than pitied.” Safer is better, too, because you won't have to watch your back as much. People will be less likely to conspire against someone they fear than someone they pity.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited January 2019
    I suppose Jeremy better tone down his bullying....I wonder how many people will feel sorry for her when they remember some of her decisions ...'Go Home Vans' ...Appointing Boris....Brexit Means Brexit....Sacking Osborne in a particularly humiliating way...appointing Michael Gove...Walking through a wheat field....
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    TudorRose said:

    OK, a maths question. According to the graph the percentage of people 'never' having had sympathy for her has gone up. Impossible, surely?

    It's impossible to be true, but not impossible to tell a pollster.
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    About that labour recovery in Scotland Justin keeps claiming

    Just had a tweet from the Daily Post (North Wales news) that the Scottish labour party have been called out for releasing a promotional video featuring scenes filmed in ..........Wales

    The video for social media shows Richard Leonard discussing labour's vision for Scotland

    It says 'our Country is run by an elite few. It belongs to all of us. Watch and share the three minute 'Vision for Scotland' promotion featuring clips of Scottish scenery, families and businesses'

    At 1.25 mins in the camera pans out to a striking shot of a mounrain range ........ Tryfan in the Snowdonia National Park

    Scotland has magnificient mountains and scenery - maybe next time film in Scotland

    That's brilliant!
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    TudorRose said:

    OK, a maths question. According to the graph the percentage of people 'never' having had sympathy for her has gone up. Impossible, surely?

    It's impossible to be true, but not impossible to tell a pollster.
    You mean people lie to pollsters? Surely not. Imagine the shock all those remainer's will get when the Peoples' Vote result is announced.
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    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Tom Watson's closing speech hit her where it hurt.

    ... except that the impact was rather dulled by the fact that Labour don't have any better ideas. What's the point of saying 'get out of the way and leave it to us' if it's clear you haven't got a clue what to do differently?
    For sure.

    Nevertheless you could see it all on her face as he outlined her failings as a leader.
    That was nothing to Corbyn's face as Gove tore him apart and the look of his front bench, especially Starmer who looked in real distress
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987
    IanB2 said:

    Tom Watson's closing speech hit her where it hurt.

    Yes - she was wincing. But he was just being honest rather than cruel and MPs on all sides could see that.

    It was in contrast to Gove who put on a bravura performance excoriating Labour which delighted Tory MPs but didn't help gain cooperation to sort out the mess.
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    NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.

    My gut feeling is that a lot of the general public believe that resolving Brexit is very difficult because of the balance of forces within the HOC and that at least May is trying to get a workable leave solution unlike any other prominent political figure.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    I heard on the radio that Teslas are $45k or so and Musk wants to get this down to $35K.

    Apparently they'll be here in 2 years time and be £50k !!

    I'm using ~1.264 USD to GBP for year end conversions but it seemingly works the other way round with cars.

    Are we ripped off or is there some whopping tariff on US cars ?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    Liz’s audition as a new DExEU spin doctor:

    https://twitter.com/theneweuropean/status/1086197493380104192?s=21
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,631
    TudorRose said:

    OK, a maths question. According to the graph the percentage of people 'never' having had sympathy for her has gone up. Impossible, surely?

    That's a good question and I'm not sure of the answer. Presumably different people responded on the panel this time, and/or they misremembered.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2019
    O/T

    A few months ago I wrote to the editor of the Spectator to point out to him that there was a fairly easy way of getting round the paywall for the online version of the magazine. I was secretly hoping the magazine might offer me a free subscription for a short time in return, but they didn't. If I hadn't pointed out the mistake I'd still be able to read it for free today. He did reply to thank me personally though, which was nice.
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226
    Pulpstar said:

    I heard on the radio that Teslas are $45k or so and Musk wants to get this down to $35K.

    Apparently they'll be here in 2 years time and be £50k !!

    I'm using ~1.264 USD to GBP for year end conversions but it seemingly works the other way round with cars.

    Are we ripped off or is there some whopping tariff on US cars ?

    My brother has one, and we spent half the Christmas break trying to charge the bloody thing. It was a smart looking car with a giant screen next to the driving seat but otherwise like an upmarket hearse, He has his on PCP but the market price is, I believe, nearer 70k.
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    Pulpstar said:

    I heard on the radio that Teslas are $45k or so and Musk wants to get this down to $35K.

    Apparently they'll be here in 2 years time and be £50k !!

    I'm using ~1.264 USD to GBP for year end conversions but it seemingly works the other way round with cars.

    Are we ripped off or is there some whopping tariff on US cars ?

    Right hand drive vehicles are often more expensive because they require changes to the 'standard' left hand drive manufacturing process.
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    TudorRose said:

    OK, a maths question. According to the graph the percentage of people 'never' having had sympathy for her has gone up. Impossible, surely?

    It could be a different sample.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    About that labour recovery in Scotland Justin keeps claiming

    Just had a tweet from the Daily Post (North Wales news) that the Scottish labour party have been called out for releasing a promotional video featuring scenes filmed in ..........Wales

    The video for social media shows Richard Leonard discussing labour's vision for Scotland

    It says 'our Country is run by an elite few. It belongs to all of us. Watch and share the three minute 'Vision for Scotland' promotion featuring clips of Scottish scenery, families and businesses'

    At 1.25 mins in the camera pans out to a striking shot of a mountain range ........ Tryfan in the Snowdonia National Park

    Scotland has magnificient mountains and scenery - maybe next time film in Scotland

    What muppets!
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited January 2019
    There is clearly sympathy with May but at the end of the day her Deal was voted down by such a margin she has effectively lost control of the process, with Corbyn's VONC plan also voted down he has little to add either.

    I think at this stage a Remain v Deal referendum is the most likely option to get to the 320 mark needed for a majority once a few Tory Deal backers switch to it to avoid No Deal, such a referendum could go either way
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226
    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    A few months ago I wrote to the editor of the Spectator to point out to him that there was a fairly easy way of getting round the paywall for the online version of the magazine. I was secretly hoping the magazine might offer me a free subscription for a short time in return, but they didn't. If I hadn't pointed out the mistake I'd still be able to read it for free today. He did reply to thank my personally though, which was nice.

    Shouda just shared it with us...
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    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    TudorRose said:

    OK, a maths question. According to the graph the percentage of people 'never' having had sympathy for her has gone up. Impossible, surely?

    It could be a different sample.
    Isn't it a panel?
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    TudorRose said:

    TudorRose said:

    OK, a maths question. According to the graph the percentage of people 'never' having had sympathy for her has gone up. Impossible, surely?

    It could be a different sample.
    Isn't it a panel?
    It is, but they don't usually ask the same panelists every time.
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    IanB2 said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    A few months ago I wrote to the editor of the Spectator to point out to him that there was a fairly easy way of getting round the paywall for the online version of the magazine. I was secretly hoping the magazine might offer me a free subscription for a short time in return, but they didn't. If I hadn't pointed out the mistake I'd still be able to read it for free today. He did reply to thank my personally though, which was nice.

    Shouda just shared it with us...
    Usually "google the headline" works. Second or third link down is usually a syndicated feed of the whole story, with no paywall and no ads.
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
    Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
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    IanB2 said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    A few months ago I wrote to the editor of the Spectator to point out to him that there was a fairly easy way of getting round the paywall for the online version of the magazine. I was secretly hoping the magazine might offer me a free subscription for a short time in return, but they didn't. If I hadn't pointed out the mistake I'd still be able to read it for free today. He did reply to thank my personally though, which was nice.

    Shouda just shared it with us...
    Usually "google the headline" works. Second or third link down is usually a syndicated feed of the whole story, with no paywall and no ads.
    Or going incognito.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
    If it were an ace, why did it lead to a deal rejected by Tory MPs?
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    grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234


    Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?

    For the last month, Big G ridiculed anybody who suggested a better deal was available.

    Now he's ridiculing anybody suggests one isn't.
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    TudorRose said:

    OK, a maths question. According to the graph the percentage of people 'never' having had sympathy for her has gone up. Impossible, surely?

    It's all those Young Remainers becoming old enough to vote while the Old Leavers are dying off, or something.
  • Options
    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    Pulpstar said:

    I heard on the radio that Teslas are $45k or so and Musk wants to get this down to $35K.

    Apparently they'll be here in 2 years time and be £50k !!

    I'm using ~1.264 USD to GBP for year end conversions but it seemingly works the other way round with cars.

    Are we ripped off or is there some whopping tariff on US cars ?

    10% tariff. Also a lot of US prices are quoted before sales tax (because these vary state to state), the UK price quoted will have VAT at 20% on it.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226

    IanB2 said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    A few months ago I wrote to the editor of the Spectator to point out to him that there was a fairly easy way of getting round the paywall for the online version of the magazine. I was secretly hoping the magazine might offer me a free subscription for a short time in return, but they didn't. If I hadn't pointed out the mistake I'd still be able to read it for free today. He did reply to thank my personally though, which was nice.

    Shouda just shared it with us...
    Usually "google the headline" works. Second or third link down is usually a syndicated feed of the whole story, with no paywall and no ads.
    Why would anyone write to the editor about that?
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    TudorRose said:

    OK, a maths question. According to the graph the percentage of people 'never' having had sympathy for her has gone up. Impossible, surely?

    It's all those Young Remainers becoming old enough to vote while the Old Leavers are dying off, or something.
    This is the most likely answer so far!
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    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
    Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
    No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.

    Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.

    Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
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    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    Seeing as your all talking Brexit again, Prof Curtice interviewed in Spiked.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/01/18/leave-or-remain-voters-do-not-want-compromise/
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,251
    edited January 2019

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
    If it were an ace, why did it lead to a deal rejected by Tory MPs?
    Because they are all playing for their resolution. It remains an important threat and those wanting it removed are all remainers who see it as a way to weaken our case
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645

    So we have a snap election - am I exected to believe that if I vote for Dr. Sarah Wollaston, she will magically support Theresa May's Shit Deal?

    Precisely why a GE solves nothing.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226
    kle4 said:

    So we have a snap election - am I exected to believe that if I vote for Dr. Sarah Wollaston, she will magically support Theresa May's Shit Deal?

    Precisely why a GE solves nothing.
    Not to mention that the flawed voting system makes it no way to resolve what comes down to a binary issue.
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    AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    I guess there were some who felt sympathy with Aethelred the Unready, Mary Queen of Scots, King John or Anthony Eden. Like May, they were all still bungling incompetents. I’d rather have competent political leadership myself. I agree with the 37%.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
    If it were an ace, why did it lead to a deal rejected by Tory MPs?
    Because they are all playing for their resolution. It remains an important threat and those wanting it removed are all remainers who see it as a way to weaken our case
    We have a deal. The barrier to ratification is the lack of a parliamentary majority. The way to obtain a majority is to soften the deal. How does the threat of no deal help us soften it?
  • Options


    Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?

    For the last month, Big G ridiculed anybody who suggested a better deal was available.

    Now he's ridiculing anybody suggests one isn't.
    You do spout nonsense but then that is the norm, apart from the odd post
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645

    Pity is the most dangerous emotion for her. She would do better to be hated if she wanted to achieve anything.

    My gut feeling is that a lot of the general public believe that resolving Brexit is very difficult because of the balance of forces within the HOC and that at least May is trying to get a workable leave solution unlike any other prominent political figure.
    I can believe that. But I don't see how that helps when it's the Commons she needs, and that the same people won't suddenly start liking her solution.
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited January 2019

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
    Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
    No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.

    Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.

    Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
    29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
    Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
    No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.

    Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.

    Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
    29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacture axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
    The trouble is that these types of impact will only show in the economic figures with a considerable lag, by which time it will be too late. Meanwhile the leavers will continue to pretend that the warnings are for an economic collapse on 30th March.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
    Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
    No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.

    Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.

    Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
    29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacture axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
    We are seeing some pain that I am not happy about at all. TM deal should have been accepted and we would have moved on

    The blame lies with ultra brexiteers and remainers fighting to the cost of our economy
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077

    We are seeing some pain that I am not happy about at all. TM deal should have been accepted and we would have moved on

    The blame lies with ultra brexiteers and remainers fighting to the cost of our economy

    You keep telling yourself that. Nobody else believes it.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavymportant to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace
    Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
    No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.

    Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.

    Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
    29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacture axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
    We are seeing some pain that I am not happy about at all. TM deal should have been accepted and we would have moved on

    The blame lies with ultra brexiteers and remainers fighting to the cost of our economy
    You can't blame the remainers when if they win all these sort of problems will go away
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    IanB2 said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    A few months ago I wrote to the editor of the Spectator to point out to him that there was a fairly easy way of getting round the paywall for the online version of the magazine. I was secretly hoping the magazine might offer me a free subscription for a short time in return, but they didn't. If I hadn't pointed out the mistake I'd still be able to read it for free today. He did reply to thank my personally though, which was nice.

    Shouda just shared it with us...
    Usually "google the headline" works. Second or third link down is usually a syndicated feed of the whole story, with no paywall and no ads.
    Or going incognito.
    Or paying the money to the capitalist pigdogs. I subscribed to the Telegraph solely to follow Plato's pb links, before she fell in with the Trump and the alt-right.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226

    IanB2 said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    A few months ago I wrote to the editor of the Spectator to point out to him that there was a fairly easy way of getting round the paywall for the online version of the magazine. I was secretly hoping the magazine might offer me a free subscription for a short time in return, but they didn't. If I hadn't pointed out the mistake I'd still be able to read it for free today. He did reply to thank my personally though, which was nice.

    Shouda just shared it with us...
    Usually "google the headline" works. Second or third link down is usually a syndicated feed of the whole story, with no paywall and no ads.
    Or going incognito.
    Or paying the money to the capitalist pigdogs. I subscribed to the Telegraph solely to follow Plato's pb links, before she fell in with the Trump and the alt-right.
    RIP
  • Options
    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
    Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
    No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.

    Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.

    Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
    29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
    The tire jobs are not being outsourced to an EU country at all.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226
    Ministers have been urged by top doctors to reveal the extent of national drug stocks, amid growing evidence patients are stockpiling medication in preparation for a no-deal Brexit.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
    If it were an ace, why did it lead to a deal rejected by Tory MPs?
    Because they are all playing for their resolution. It remains an important threat and those wanting it removed are all remainers who see it as a way to weaken our case
    We have a deal. The barrier to ratification is the lack of a parliamentary majority. The way to obtain a majority is to soften the deal. How does the threat of no deal help us soften it?
    With no alternative but remain no possible deal will be soft enough for the doubters, Mps should be honest about that. Remove no deal, remove any reason to have a deal.
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    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    edited January 2019
    It might be easier to feel sympathy for May if she hadn't brought so many of her troubles on herself.
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    All I see in that picture is the roving finger(s) of Anna Soubry
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645

    We are seeing some pain that I am not happy about at all. TM deal should have been accepted and we would have moved on

    The blame lies with ultra brexiteers and remainers fighting to the cost of our economy

    You keep telling yourself that. Nobody else believes it.
    I don't see how the point brexit and remainer ultras, who only care about their preferred outcome, are the main problem in parliamentary terms. Ultras are ultras, they scream and chaos chaos in the blind hope of winning.
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    We have snow in Sheffield.

    Only light snow, the sort of snow that sees Southern softies declare a state of emergency.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    IanB2 said:

    Ministers have been urged by top doctors to reveal the extent of national drug stocks, amid growing evidence patients are stockpiling medication in preparation for a no-deal Brexit.

    We're buying a load of phenylbutazone right now...
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,945
    IanB2 said:

    Ministers have been urged by top doctors to reveal the extent of national drug stocks, amid growing evidence patients are stockpiling medication in preparation for a no-deal Brexit.

    Therein lies a problem. Shortages can become self-fulfilling very easily and quickly. Look at the behaviour during the 2000 fuel protests.
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    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
    Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?


    Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.

    Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
    29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacture axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
    We are seeing some pain that I am not happy about at all. TM deal should have been accepted and we would have moved on

    The blame lies with ultra brexiteers and remainers fighting to the cost of our economy
    I don't think the remainer's numbers really change the fundamental problem; it is a worse deal than we have at the moment! The Brexiteers have the numbers to make or break this deal.

    The TM deal leaves us powerless, it is better to be in the EU shaping and scrutinising the development of the single market than impotent and tenuously connected with no say. The PM wasted an extra month to arrive at this cliff edge. I pity the poor souls who are going to be shunted out of work and into lower paid jobs because of other peoples obsession with the EU.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129
    New experience for me watching Boris Johnson today. Genuine embarrassment for the guy.
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092


    No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.

    Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.

    Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that

    If you think May's response to "Take No Deal off the table" should be a screeching U-Turn on whether her deal is the best possible deal, then fine. She can go and join the ERGers. But if she does do that, that still represents Corbyn having boxed her in to a very awkward position.

    For one thing, completely contradicting her previous position is embarassing. For another, it'll alienate her from her previous allies, the people who agree with her argument that her deal is the only deal around (apart from those- and I'm afraid you appear to be falling into this category- who are happy to perform whatever cognitive handbrake turns are required to track her current position). For a third, and perhaps most important, it means that in the likely event that the backstop doesn't get taken out of the WA, she'll have undermined her own main argument for the deal when it comes back up to vote again.

    I think causing her that much trouble represents smart politics from the opposition, doesn't it?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited January 2019

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
    If it were an ace, why did it lead to a deal rejected by Tory MPs?
    Because they are all playing for their resolution. It remains an important threat and those wanting it removed are all remainers who see it as a way to weaken our case
    We have a deal. The barrier to ratification is the lack of a parliamentary majority. The way to obtain a majority is to soften the deal. How does the threat of no deal help us soften it?
    We are in limbo more now until thanks to the Grieve amendment we get to the knockout phase.

    There will be votes on Corbyn's planned permanent Customs Union and also on permanent Single Market and Customs Union. If neither get a majority then there will be a vote on a Remain v Deal referendum which could well then get a majority and May could then say it was imposed on her by Parliament and she reluctantly must bow to their will and then get out on the campaign trail for Brexit with her Deal
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
    Not strictly true. If party A gets 12% and party B gets 8%, A gets elected first. If, instead, party A1 gets 6% and party A2 gets 6% , party B gets elected in place of either.
  • Options
    dotsdots Posts: 615

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    When I say my prayers to nite I will pray you are right, Big G, I need you to be right on this. The whole order of British politics will be forever changed for the worse if you are wrong on this.

    But I fear you are wrong. I fear many lab voted leave simply to slap the faces of Cammo and Ossie and their austerity project, voted leave merely because remain belonged to the political establishment that these voters think never listens to them, the picture also skewed because some lab voters in these labour areas not voting in 2016 and people there who don’t normally participate voting instead,
    So when Corb and Labour back peoples vote these labour leave areas aren’t going Tory. They were never really that bought Into leave, that giving them a choice between leave or a Labour government these voters will chose the Labour government.
    I think polling evidence suggests this :(
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
    Not strictly true. If party A gets 12% and party B gets 8%, A gets elected first. If, instead, party A1 gets 6% and party A2 gets 6% , party B gets elected in place of either.
    I think I might do a thread on the D'Hondt method this Sunday to show how two Pro-Brexit could split the vote to the detriment of their cause.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,748
    Re:Header - Surprised 100% haven't felt a degree of sympathy for May, and also a degree of admiration at her fortitude.

    I think I've felt a degree of sympathy for most PMs at times. Certainly Maggie, Major, Blair, Cameron - perhaps Callaghan (I got the impression he expected more of himself, although I was quite young at the time) and certainly not Brown though (well perhaps a hint when he was cornered by the lady that cornered him).

    Apart from Brown it's only the deeply odd or ludicrously self-indulgent politicians that I can't imagine having any empathy and thus potentially sympathising with them, Derek Hatton, Prescott, Anna Soubry, Paul Boateng (the most despicable man in British politics, ever), and no doubt a handful of others.

    @AmpfieldAndy Anthony Eden - huge sympathy for where he found himself. The US really did act quite poorly in my view - perhaps predictably so, but nonetheless he was unlucky to ruin into that.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    HYUFD said:

    The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
    It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited January 2019
    Anyways, Brexit cuisine has just been given a shot in the arm.

    https://goo.gl/images/NERG4s
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    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1086319027880951808

    Corbyn wheeling out his heavy artillery. Stopping No Deal is obviously soooooo important to him.

    Yeah.

    Will strengthen the leave voting areas against him and put his mps in those seats under threat

    He is not good at politics

    I think I have already seen a hard hitting leave poster on this against Corbyn
    On the contrary, I think this is a rare display of canniness by Corbyn. The problem politicians are having is that there are majorities against every option. So it's politically smart to focus on being against No Deal, rather than the far more difficult question (especially for Labour!) of what you're for. It moves the conversation to one where all of Labour, people's vote, Lib Dems, SNP and many Tories are united, rather than one where they're split. And it puts a challenge to May which she can't answer with "well what would you do?"
    Her answer is you want to surrender to Brussels and hand them the ace that they do not need to do anything while we fly the white flag
    Hasn't she been saying for two months that her deal is the only possible deal? Why would we now believe that she has the capacity to make the EU do anything?
    No deal is default. As the clock runs down the EU have hard decisions to make.

    Article in one of the Irish papers with direct attack on Ireland and the EU over the looming economic catastrophe and they must do a deal with UK. Germany beginning to panic with recession looming and thousands of unsaleable cars.

    Italy demanding today the EU negotiate the deal. As the clocks run down economic and political forces will collide and of course we can run the clock down to the 29th March as we can the day before revoke A50, and there is nothing the EU can do about that
    29th March is a bit late for those who have already lost their jobs due to Brexit. Just in the last few days I noticed a pharmaceutical manufacturer axe many jobs and a west country tyre manufacturer axe hundreds of jobs. The companies involved are transferring their production to other EU countries. I used to back the Tories because of their handling of the economy was superior to Labour. I cannot say that when foreseeable job losses are arising due to a badly thought out policy and its catastrophic execution.
    The tire jobs are not being outsourced to an EU country at all.
    Is this what Brexiteers wanted a Global Briton for: To transfer jobs from the UK to other parts of the world?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Farage could always join the SDP, as Patrick O'Flynn already has.
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    We have snow in Sheffield.

    Only light snow, the sort of snow that sees Southern softies declare a state of emergency.

    Don't Northern Softies complain about the lack of first class on a relatively short train ride from Manchester to Sheffield?
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    I have sympathy for stupid people for not being as intelligent as me, doesn't mean I'll vote for them.

    "Tony Blair, defending FPTP, argued that other systems give small parties the balance of power, and influence disproportionate to their votes."
    - P. Dorey (2008). The Labour Party and Constitutional Reform: A History of Constitutional Conservatism.

    "Allowing people into the UK parliament who did not finish first in their constituency was described by David Cameron as creating a "Parliament full of second-choices who no one really wanted but didn't really object to either.""
    - David Cameron. "Why keeping first past the post is vital for democracy." Daily Telegraph. 30 Apr 2011

    "Winston Churchill criticised the electoral outcomes of the alternative vote as "determined by the most worthless votes given for the most worthless candidates.""
    - Larry Johnston (2011). Politics: An Introduction to the Modern Democratic State.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,748

    HYUFD said:

    The Brexit vote would not be split at at European elections as they are under PR
    It’s the conspiracy theory aspect at the end I most enjoy. Nigel Farage, anti-Leave agent.
    Alastair, what do you make of Farage? You've clearly disagreed with much of what he's stood for, but have you filtered any positives about him over the years?

    I personally think he should get a gong or something - I've not really ever agreed with him, but he has been an important figure, and has brought about substantial change democratically.

    Not jumping up and down to ennoble him, but fair's fair.
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    We are seeing some pain that I am not happy about at all. TM deal should have been accepted and we would have moved on

    The blame lies with ultra brexiteers and remainers fighting to the cost of our economy

    You keep telling yourself that. Nobody else believes it.
    Really, are you sure, I maybe unique
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