I'm not annoyed by what Tusk has said. What does irritate is the suggestion that Britain has an obligation not inconvenience the EU on the way out. Sorry, that's not our problem.
On the whole, I think it a good idea to try not to inconvenience people with whom you want to have a continuing relationship, even when you're on the way out of one relationship with them to another one.
Well, we're not the ones who will be putting up a border on the island of Ireland.
I wonder at what point it dawns on Varadkar that all the EU Presidents and Commissioners are due to retire in May, and that if there's no deal he's going be left on his own holding the baby of the border enforcement?
Do they. I thought they continued until the Autumn - I could be wrong though
The EU was always out to punish us by giving us a terrible deal, a deal so shite we would Remain, as Donald Tusk clearly expected (which is one reason, Mr Meeks, why Tusk's remarks are so ridiculous - he is just angry that this punitive approach maybe hasn't worked)
The EU is acting as an enemy, and has been, all along. It cannot be trusted, it is only interested in giving us pain. It wants to hurt us, pour encourager les autres, and just because.
We are Lutherans, they are Jesuits.
They are not enemies, but they are pursuing their interests not our interests. Why should anyone be surprised or annoyed by that?
We shouldn't, at all, but we should be prepared to do the same. No-one since Thatcher has realised this basic truth.
Thatcher’s actual record was the most integrationist since Heath, and she gave Ireland a role in the government of Northern Ireland.
Correct me if I'm wrong but there was only one PM between Thatcher and Heath!
Each time the media shows Tusk's comments the more brexiteers will be satisfied with the massive own goal he has scored and many moderates on either side will be driven against the EU
Some on here are almost pleased with Tusk today, but I expect that view is not shared by those who want a second referendum as this attitude will harden against another vote and sadly drive a no deal exit more likely
Tusk today reminds me of Mourinho a few months ago.
The BBC have just reported that Tusk does not speak for all the EU and they consider his statement a serious misjudgement. They do not want a no deal and their door is open
Damage limitation by the EU
LOL. Their damage limitation efforts might get somewhere if this were an isolated off-message comment, but it was clearly deliberate, and just the latest in a serious of such issues coming from the EU side. Last week it was Barnier and Junker with the high fives, boasting about how they'd screwed the UK in the regotiations.
As Casino and others have said, there's mounting evidence that the EU have no intention of acting in good faith over the backstop, which is in part why the deal was considered unacceptable to 432 MPs.
I should say the damage limitation exercise might get somewhere if the remarks were not true.
It's precisely because it will play well in certain quarters he should have kept his stupid trap shut. When you have got somebody looking for an excuse to give in, gloating and sneering is he one sure way to disaster.
Yes, there is much that can be said about the timing, the manner, the wording etc, but not a word about him being wrong, because he wasn't.
If Cameron had supported leave and used the civil service to come up with a plan, it wouldn’t have been supported. But the EU and Cameron thought there was no risk, no reason to give anything in order to mitigate. Then they allowed a nebulous question thinking no one would support. I think the blame lies wider sand deeper than leavers who played the field in front of them
I for one am delighted that there's someone in politics prepared to call a spade a c*nt.
Who knew that Brexiteers were humourless, irony-devoid dullards who fly into high-pitched screeches of vituperative remonstration with anyone that dares remind them quite how royally they have fucked Brexit up?
I wonder at what point it dawns on Varadkar that all the EU Presidents and Commissioners are due to retire in May, and that if there's no deal he's going be left on his own holding the baby of the border enforcement?
Do they. I thought they continued until the Autumn - I could be wrong though
Yes, that's my understanding - the new Commission will be elected by the new Parliament in the autumn.
Each time the media shows Tusk's comments the more brexiteers will be satisfied with the massive own goal he has scored and many moderates on either side will be driven against the EU
Some on here are almost pleased with Tusk today, but I expect that view is not shared by those who want a second referendum as this attitude will harden against another vote and sadly drive a no deal exit more likely
Tusk today reminds me of Mourinho a few months ago.
The BBC have just reported that Tusk does not speak for all the EU and they consider his statement a serious misjudgement. They do not want a no deal and their door is open
Damage limitation by the EU
LOL. Their damage limitation efforts might get somewhere if this were an isolated off-message comment, but it was clearly deliberate, and just the latest in a serious of such issues coming from the EU side. Last week it was Barnier and Junker with the high fives, boasting about how they'd screwed the UK in the regotiations.
As Casino and others have said, there's mounting evidence that the EU have no intention of acting in good faith over the backstop, which is in part why the deal was considered unacceptable to 432 MPs.
I should say the damage limitation exercise might get somewhere if the remarks were not true.
It's precisely because it will play well in certain quarters he should have kept his stupid trap shut. When you have got somebody looking for an excuse to give in, gloating and sneering is he one sure way to disaster.
Yes, there is much that can be said about the timing, the manner, the wording etc, but not a word about him being wrong, because he wasn't.
I can understand his anger but he has really caused an unnecessary crisis and shows he lacks the skills of someone in his position
Each time the media shows Tusk's comments the more brexiteers will be satisfied with the massive own goal he has scored and many moderates on either side will be driven against the EU
Some on here are almost pleased with Tusk today, but I expect that view is not shared by those who want a second referendum as this attitude will harden against another vote and sadly drive a no deal exit more likely
Tusk today reminds me of Mourinho a few months ago.
The BBC have just reported that Tusk does not speak for all the EU and they consider his statement a serious misjudgement. They do not want a no deal and their door is open
Damage limitation by the EU
LOL. Their damage limitation efforts might get somewhere if this were an isolated off-message comment, but it was clearly deliberate, and just the latest in a serious of such issues coming from the EU side. Last week it was Barnier and Junker with the high fives, boasting about how they'd screwed the UK in the regotiations.
As Casino and others have said, there's mounting evidence that the EU have no intention of acting in good faith over the backstop, which is in part why the deal was considered unacceptable to 432 MPs.
I should say the damage limitation exercise might get somewhere if the remarks were not true.
It's precisely because it will play well in certain quarters he should have kept his stupid trap shut. When you have got somebody looking for an excuse to give in, gloating and sneering is he one sure way to disaster.
Yes, there is much that can be said about the timing, the manner, the wording etc, but not a word about him being wrong, because he wasn't.
Seems very reasonable. But it seems most people much prefer to focus on the being right or wrong as though that is the only matter of concern anyone should have. It's as though diplomacy and international relations don't matter at all, in which case there's a lot of awful things other nations are doing (not even the obvious ones) that we and the EU should be a lot more blunt with.
Let's be fair though, Tusk's comments about the remain side in Britain were far more damning. "Special place in hell" indicates a huge level of annoyance but the impotence with which he described the remainers in parliament in particular, writing off the SNP, Lib Dems and so forth was interesting and telling.
"Some 10 companies, who are estimated to have at least 85% of UK mobile users, say they have “no plans” to change their roaming policies, but haven’t ruled out the return of charges."
So it is POSSIBLE that roaming charges will return, but in truth it is very unlikely. The movement across the planet is to ever cheaper roaming. e.g. With Vodafone I can go to most countries in the world and pay little or nothing for data and calls.
In Vietnam last month - Vietnam! - I got all my UK calls, data, texts, for just an extra £6 a day. That's bloody Vietnam. Six quid. And I was only charged that on days I used it.
I'm with three and when I used to spend half my time in the US for work that was covered by their roaming at no extra charge. Last time I looked the US wasn't in the EU...
So are you willing to put a precise figure to it? Say a prediction about unemployment by the end of May? (I mean the month, not the prime minister.)
The Treasury prediction was that if we voted to Leave the EU then jobs would fall under all scenarios but if we did so without a deal it would fall by 820k. Employment at the time was 31.58 million. So if the Treasury were right employment should fall to 30.76 million.
Satisfied?
Wasn't that a prediction of what would happen by mid-2018?
Well indeed. But that was based on an immediate invocation of A50. A50 invocation was delayed so lets give them the benefit of the doubt and give until Mid-2019 for this to take place.
You're suggesting we judge the post-Brexit period on the basis of a projection for the pre-Brexit period made nearly 3 years ago, which we already know didn't turn out to be correct?
What would be the point of that?
No, mid-2018 was supposed to be post-Brexit. A50 invoked mid-2016, Brexit happens by mid-2018.
I'm suggesting we judge the post-Brexit period on the pre-referendum predictions of the post-Brexit period.
What utter nonsense.
It was a prediction for the change in the two years to mid-2018, on the assumption that Article 50 would be invoked in mid-2016. Obviously that's a prediction up to the date of Brexit, not a prediction for the post-Brexit period.
It was a prediction based on if we left with no deal. It is the baseline to compare to.
I'm not annoyed by what Tusk has said. What does irritate is the suggestion that Britain has an obligation not inconvenience the EU on the way out. Sorry, that's not our problem.
On the whole, I think it a good idea to try not to inconvenience people with whom you want to have a continuing relationship, even when you're on the way out of one relationship with them to another one.
Well, we're not the ones who will be putting up a border on the island of Ireland.
I wonder at what point it dawns on Varadkar that all the EU Presidents and Commissioners are due to retire in May, and that if there's no deal he's going be left on his own holding the baby of the border enforcement?
Do they. I thought they continued until the Autumn - I could be wrong though
Grr, yes you're right. There's a transition period, rather like with US Presidents, to the new Commission. Junker's replacement will be voted on by the new Parliament when it meets.
"Some 10 companies, who are estimated to have at least 85% of UK mobile users, say they have “no plans” to change their roaming policies, but haven’t ruled out the return of charges."
So it is POSSIBLE that roaming charges will return, but in truth it is very unlikely. The movement across the planet is to ever cheaper roaming. e.g. With Vodafone I can go to most countries in the world and pay little or nothing for data and calls.
In Vietnam last month - Vietnam! - I got all my UK calls, data, texts, for just an extra £6 a day. That's bloody Vietnam. Six quid. And I was only charged that on days I used it.
I'm with three and when I used to spend half my time in the US for work that was covered by their roaming at no extra charge. Last time I looked the US wasn't in the EU...
Yep EE are the same. When I was in Canada a couple of years ago I was able to use both data and calls/texts exactly as if I were in the UK at no extra cost.
Let's be fair though, Tusk's comments about the remain side in Britain were far more damning. "Special place in hell" indicates a huge level of annoyance but the impotence with which he described the remainers in parliament in particular, writing off the SNP, Lib Dems and so forth was interesting and telling.
Yeah, Tusk was brutal about Corbyn too, but sadly his successful bully ramming of the fragile brexiteer id seems to be getting all the high quality memes.
Each time the media shows Tusk's comments the more brexiteers will be satisfied with the massive own goal he has scored and many moderates on either side will be driven against the EU
Some on here are almost pleased with Tusk today, but I expect that view is not shared by those who want a second referendum as this attitude will harden against another vote and sadly drive a no deal exit more likely
Tusk today reminds me of Mourinho a few months ago.
The BBC have just reported that Tusk does not speak for all the EU and they consider his statement a serious misjudgement. They do not want a no deal and their door is open
Damage limitation by the EU
LOL. Their damage limitation efforts might get somewhere if this were an isolated off-message comment, but it was clearly deliberate, and just the latest in a serious of such issues coming from the EU side. Last week it was Barnier and Junker with the high fives, boasting about how they'd screwed the UK in the regotiations.
As Casino and others have said, there's mounting evidence that the EU have no intention of acting in good faith over the backstop, which is in part why the deal was considered unacceptable to 432 MPs.
I should say the damage limitation exercise might get somewhere if the remarks were not true.
It's precisely because it will play well in certain quarters he should have kept his stupid trap shut. When you have got somebody looking for an excuse to give in, gloating and sneering is he one sure way to disaster.
Yes, there is much that can be said about the timing, the manner, the wording etc, but not a word about him being wrong, because he wasn't.
I can understand his anger but he has really caused an unnecessary crisis and shows he lacks the skills of someone in his position
Good job it wasn't already a crisis, else he'd look really stupid...
I think Tusk and the EU has been playing good cop/ bad cop.
Tusk has been in the role of bad cop all through the negotiations.
I suspect the EU will show some skirt in the next few days.
I am not taken in by these comments!
Who was playing 'good cop'?
My major concern is the same as with all those people who slagged off the deal in such strong language being necessary to then see it through - even if they want to, and even if the EU want to 'show some skirt' as you put it, given the strength of their comments to refuse, well, anything, politically I don't see how either lot back down. The very things that might allow enough politicians to politically justify changing their view are the very things that the EU has already categorically ruled out. They must have a very nice skirt to show us!
I can understand his anger but he has really caused an unnecessary crisis and shows he lacks the skills of someone in his position
Crisis for whom?
Triggering a bunch of gammon-scented snowflakes isn't going to be high on anyone's list of things to worry about. Be *amused* by, certainly. But no more than that.
I can't help thinking that maybe if we made a habit of brutally ripping the piss out of brexiteers in public more frequently, we'd not be deep in this shite in the first place.
I for one am delighted that there's someone in politics prepared to call a spade a c*nt.
Who knew that Brexiteers were humourless, irony-devoid dullards who fly into high-pitched screeches of vituperative remonstration with anyone that dares remind them quite how royally they have fucked Brexit up?
Oh wait, E V E R Y O N E.
Although I'm not a Brexiteer, I'd suggest that somebody who posts that while having as his(?) avatar a dangerous forger, murderer, thief, liar and National Socialist who enriches himself hugely from stolen oil revenues while he clings to power with funny money from his fellow Fascists while his people starve -
Isn't really in a position to criticise anyone else.
We heard all the same drama after Cakegate and the nebulous exchange .
Political commentators like to make a lot of these as somehow being a game changer , they never are . This will be fish and chip paper by the weekend .
Although I'm not a Brexiteer, I'd suggest that somebody who posts that while having as his(?) avatar a dangerous forger, murderer, thief, liar and National Socialist who enriches himself hugely from stolen oil revenues while he clings to power with funny money from his fellow Fascists while his people starve -
Isn't really in a position to criticise anyone else.
Wow, I've learned about the dark side to Bob Carolgees.
We heard all the same drama after Cakegate and the nebulous exchange .
Political commentators like to make a lot of these as somehow being a game changer , they never are . This will be fish and chip paper by the weekend .
I would like to think you're right.
But the timing of this is awful. And one foolish word in the wrong place can have terrible effects.
Each time the media shows Tusk's comments the more brexiteers will be satisfied with the massive own goal he has scored and many moderates on either side will be driven against the EU
Some on here are almost pleased with Tusk today, but I expect that view is not shared by those who want a second referendum as this attitude will harden against another vote and sadly drive a no deal exit more likely
Tusk today reminds me of Mourinho a few months ago.
The BBC have just reported that Tusk does not speak for all the EU and they consider his statement a serious misjudgement. They do not want a no deal and their door is open
Damage limitation by the EU
LOL. Their damage limitation efforts might get somewhere if this were an isolated off-message comment, but it was clearly deliberate, and just the latest in a serious of such issues coming from the EU side. Last week it was Barnier and Junker with the high fives, boasting about how they'd screwed the UK in the regotiations.
As Casino and others have said, there's mounting evidence that the EU have no intention of acting in good faith over the backstop, which is in part why the deal was considered unacceptable to 432 MPs.
I should say the damage limitation exercise might get somewhere if the remarks were not true.
It's precisely because it will play well in certain quarters he should have kept his stupid trap shut. When you have got somebody looking for an excuse to give in, gloating and sneering is he one sure way to disaster.
Yes, there is much that can be said about the timing, the manner, the wording etc, but not a word about him being wrong, because he wasn't.
If Cameron had supported leave and used the civil service to come up with a plan, it wouldn’t have been supported. But the EU and Cameron thought there was no risk, no reason to give anything in order to mitigate. Then they allowed a nebulous question thinking no one would support. I think the blame lies wider sand deeper than leavers who played the field in front of them
That's a very good point.
If Leave, led by Cameron or anybody else, had come up with a credible plan it would have lost, because you could not have got a majority of the electorate to vote for it.
I can understand his anger but he has really caused an unnecessary crisis and shows he lacks the skills of someone in his position
I can't help thinking that maybe if we made a habit of brutally ripping the piss out of brexiteers in public more frequently, we'd not be deep in this shite in the first place.
I for one am delighted that there's someone in politics prepared to call a spade a c*nt.
Yes, I am sure you are equally delighted when opponents do it.
How is it useful for a person who engages in high stakes diplomacy to engage in behaviour seemingly designed to aid a position he and his organisation are officially not in favour of? Why would we want politicians who have no filter? There's a lot of shit nations could talk about each other, but generally it is not helpful to anyone to do that so bluntly.
People being prepare to say what they mean sounds great in theory, but in his position is it responsible? Glorifying acting like a twat is out of the Trump playbook though.
As SeanT notes, taunting each other like 13 year olds is just pathetic. It's not to be celebrated.
Each time the media shows Tusk's comments the more brexiteers will be satisfied with the massive own goal he has scored and many moderates on either side will be driven against the EU
Some on here are almost pleased with Tusk today, but I expect that view is not shared by those who want a second referendum as this attitude will harden against another vote and sadly drive a no deal exit more likely
Tusk today reminds me of Mourinho a few months ago.
The BBC have just reported that Tusk does not speak for all the EU and they consider his statement a serious misjudgement. They do not want a no deal and their door is open
Damage limitation by the EU
LOL. Their damage limitation efforts might get somewhere if this were an isolated off-message comment, but it was clearly deliberate, and just the latest in a serious of such issues coming from the EU side. Last week it was Barnier and Junker with the high fives, boasting about how they'd screwed the UK in the regotiations.
As Casino and others have said, there's mounting evidence that the EU have no intention of acting in good faith over the backstop, which is in part why the deal was considered unacceptable to 432 MPs.
I should say the damage limitation exercise might get somewhere if the remarks were not true.
It's precisely because it will play well in certain quarters he should have kept his stupid trap shut. When you have got somebody looking for an excuse to give in, gloating and sneering is he one sure way to disaster.
Yes, there is much that can be said about the timing, the manner, the wording etc, but not a word about him being wrong, because he wasn't.
I can understand his anger but he has really caused an unnecessary crisis and shows he lacks the skills of someone in his position
I think Tusk and the EU has been playing good cop/ bad cop.
Tusk has been in the role of bad cop all through the negotiations.
I suspect the EU will show some skirt in the next few days.
I am not taken in by these comments!
Who was playing 'good cop'?
My major concern is the same as with all those people who slagged off the deal in such strong language being necessary to then see it through - even if they want to, and even if the EU want to 'show some skirt' as you put it, given the strength of their comments to refuse, well, anything, politically I don't see how either lot back down. The very things that might allow enough politicians to politically justify changing their view are the very things that the EU has already categorically ruled out. They must have a very nice skirt to show us!
I think the good cop has varied throughout from their side. I would concede that the stuff they have agreed too is mainly something we have already so it is not seen as a victory. It is the stuff we are denied that people seem to focus on!
That said I think the expectations on the UK Brexiteer side were so high anything will seem like a bad deal.
It all goes back to the simple proposition that the best deal is the one we have within the EU.
Although I'm not a Brexiteer, I'd suggest that somebody who posts that while having as his(?) avatar a dangerous forger, murderer, thief, liar and National Socialist who enriches himself hugely from stolen oil revenues while he clings to power with funny money from his fellow Fascists while his people starve -
Isn't really in a position to criticise anyone else.
Wow, I've learned about the dark side to Bob Carolgees.
Okaaay...does Maduro moonlight? Is that how he makes his millions, not from graft, embezzlement and special favours for Putin?
I have just got a Samsung S9 fine. All very lovely. Came with a clear case to protect the back and a screen protector. Unfortunately, despite changing the settings to increase its touch sensitivity, when pressing option 1, 2 etc on phone calls they don't get through.
Any recommendations for a screen protector or case that protects the phone without buggering up the touch sensitivity, please?
And, no, not those awful films which - no matter what I do - always end up with silly bubbles in them.
Yes, there is much that can be said about the timing, the manner, the wording etc, but not a word about him being wrong, because he wasn't.
I suspect a lot of people in Britain, including some frustrated Leavers, will have thought his comments perfectly accurate.
And you think that matters? You think it was a useful thing for him to say? I don't have a problem in castigating leaver politicians who had no plan, I have no problem blaming myself for being too trusting in thinking a plan would be developed at all, but seriously, what does him being right or not have to do with it doing him, or us, or anyone, any good?
At worst he is assisting an outcome the EU is officially against. At best he is being a childish twat. But being right makes that ok?
How is it useful for a person who engages in high stakes diplomacy to engage in behaviour seemingly designed to aid a position he and his organisation are officially not in favour of?
I'm reasonably certain this is a calculated act of ridicule towards Brexiteers, not some off-the-cuff remark from a man with no internal censor. Varadkar seems in on it.
This was a remark laser-guided to let the UK know how seriously the EU is taking May's latest doomed displacement activity.
I think Tusk and the EU has been playing good cop/ bad cop.
Tusk has been in the role of bad cop all through the negotiations.
I suspect the EU will show some skirt in the next few days.
I am not taken in by these comments!
Who was playing 'good cop'?
My major concern is the same as with all those people who slagged off the deal in such strong language being necessary to then see it through - even if they want to, and even if the EU want to 'show some skirt' as you put it, given the strength of their comments to refuse, well, anything, politically I don't see how either lot back down. The very things that might allow enough politicians to politically justify changing their view are the very things that the EU has already categorically ruled out. They must have a very nice skirt to show us!
I think the good cop has varied throughout from their side. I would concede that the stuff they have agreed too is mainly something we have already so it is not seen as a victory. It is the stuff we are denied that people seem to focus on!
That said I think the expectations on the UK Brexiteer side were so high anything will seem like a bad deal.
It all goes back to the simple proposition that the best deal is the one we have within the EU.
Some of the EU haters would see any deal with the EU, no matter how good for us, as the spawn of the devil. I just don't think anything would satisfy them.
She would do better to cut them loose. But that means we head for No Deal because the opposition for their own - separate - reasons are unwilling to vote for a transition deal.
So the ERG's main claim to fame will not be, as they hope, Brexit but rather that they were Corbyn's useful idiots.
How is it useful for a person who engages in high stakes diplomacy to engage in behaviour seemingly designed to aid a position he and his organisation are officially not in favour of?
I'm reasonably certain this is a calculated act of ridicule towards Brexiteers, not some off-the-cuff remark from a man with no internal censor. Varadkar seems in on it.
This was a remark laser-guided to let the UK know how seriously the EU is taking May's latest doomed displacement activity.
The clitoris has 8,000 nerve endings yet isn't as sensitive as a Brexiteer.
How is it useful for a person who engages in high stakes diplomacy to engage in behaviour seemingly designed to aid a position he and his organisation are officially not in favour of?
I'm reasonably certain this is a calculated act of ridicule towards Brexiteers, not some off-the-cuff remark from a man with no internal censor. Varadkar seems in on it.
This was a remark laser-guided to let the UK know how seriously the EU is taking May's latest doomed displacement activity.
The clitoris has 8,000 nerve endings yet isn't as sensitive as a Brexiteer.
Doesn't get as hard as Brexit is going to be either at this rate.
Maybe so, but that relies on assuming Tusk is a liar and does want no deal rather than officially still wanting us to accept the deal on the table. If he still wanted the latter, he didn't need to insult and mock anyone to hold firm to his position.
He wants a deal; he wants to stick to the EU's red lines even more. If achieving the latter means jettisoning the former, the sooner we know that the better for everyone.
And what exactly is the scenario in which he made No Deal any more likely? May returns empty-handed and the ERG all say "Well, we didn't get what we wanted, but at least the EU were polite about it, so we're all going to perform screetching U-turns and vote for the deal"?
How is it useful for a person who engages in high stakes diplomacy to engage in behaviour seemingly designed to aid a position he and his organisation are officially not in favour of?
I'm reasonably certain this is a calculated act of ridicule towards Brexiteers, not some off-the-cuff remark from a man with no internal censor. Varadkar seems in on it.
This was a remark laser-guided to let the UK know how seriously the EU is taking May's latest doomed displacement activity.
The clitoris has 8,000 nerve endings yet isn't as sensitive as a Brexiteer.
Yeah, this is going to be the opening to Sunday's piece.
How is it useful for a person who engages in high stakes diplomacy to engage in behaviour seemingly designed to aid a position he and his organisation are officially not in favour of?
I'm reasonably certain this is a calculated act of ridicule towards Brexiteers, not some off-the-cuff remark from a man with no internal censor. Varadkar seems in on it.
This was a remark laser-guided to let the UK know how seriously the EU is taking May's latest doomed displacement activity.
Yep EE are the same. When I was in Canada a couple of years ago I was able to use both data and calls/texts exactly as if I were in the UK at no extra cost.
Most major carriers had extensive roaming agreements before the EU directive came into being, and they allowed subscribers to use their inclusive allowance in those countries. The directive was really about ensuring all subscribers could use their allowances within the EEA and wouldn't face ridiculous penalty charges, but good carriers were already doing what was required.
I'll be quite surprised if major carriers get rid of inclusive roaming, although there might be a few changes at the edges that impact intensive users. What is likely though is that the cheapest or discount tariffs drop roaming, home only tariffs in effect, but that's been happening for a while now even whilst we remain in the EU.
How is it useful for a person who engages in high stakes diplomacy to engage in behaviour seemingly designed to aid a position he and his organisation are officially not in favour of?
I'm reasonably certain this is a calculated act of ridicule towards Brexiteers, not some off-the-cuff remark from a man with no internal censor. Varadkar seems in on it.
This was a remark laser-guided to let the UK know how seriously the EU is taking May's latest doomed displacement activity.
A counter productive one then. As much opprobrium as May deserves, she is engaging in displacement activity because parliament is so screwed up, and pushing people further away from the deal on the table by acting like a cock hardly shows the seriousness of the EU. Their refusal to budge was already doing that, and at some point parliament would not be able to ignore it. The reluctant hardly needed much excuse to keep pushing their no deal, the EU being twattish encourages that.
Why make a deal with people who think you deserve to be in hell, in a joke or not?
I'd still want one, but stuff like this only helps one side.
I have just got a Samsung S9 fine. All very lovely. Came with a clear case to protect the back and a screen protector. Unfortunately, despite changing the settings to increase its touch sensitivity, when pressing option 1, 2 etc on phone calls they don't get through.
Any recommendations for a screen protector or case that protects the phone without buggering up the touch sensitivity, please?
And, no, not those awful films which - no matter what I do - always end up with silly bubbles in them.
Thanks in advance.
You can now get tempered glass capacative screen protectors, much better than the film ones. Most importantly, buy from somewhere on the High St that will install it for you.
I guess I should say I don't necessarily think Tusk's comments did much good. But I really doubt they did any harm, and having a whole day of everyone swooning and having to be revived with smelling salts over something so mild and trivial is more than a little tedious.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
It's his job to echo their feelings, rather than look out for their interests? An interesting take. Another in the line of 'I like what he said, therefore it doesn't matter it undermines the EU's own preferred outcome' responses. As well as another one which assumes a leaver could not agree with the thrust of his comments (not so) and the only possible reason someone could object was because they disagreed (also not so).
Very interesting that you applaud the political instincts of the Trump like though. Say what you feel, angrily insult others, it's a good way to do business.
May decided to spend a few more weeks in fantasy land rather than move on to an achievable plan B after her deal was rejected. In order for there to be any possible progress, she needs to stop pretending that renegotiation is possible.
It may well be that there's no possible deal both sides can agree on. If so, the sooner it's declared that we're proceeding on the basis of no deal, the better for both EU and UK
In order to get a deal through renegotiation is the only solution. The EU is being delusional/in fantasy land/seeking unicorns in expecting a record-smashing defeat to be reversed with no changes. The original WA has been rejected by a margin of over 2:1.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign ?
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
Roger is always wrong so we can conclude from this that Tusk's comments are a bona fide disaster.
I don't really care what Tusk said. I really don't care what he thinks. He means nothing to me. Another non elected functionary.
I do get mildly irritated by those in the UK who jump on every opportunity to amplify any denigration of their own country or its leaders but that is a separate matter. We are divided as a country and that makes us weaker. It is unfortunate. We can only hope these divisions start to heal after we have left.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
No matter how many times that the EU27 repeat that the backstop is not up for renegotiation, May and the Brexiteers are too thick to listen. There reaches a point where Tusk has to be very explicit and blunt in order to be heard.
Let's be fair though, Tusk's comments about the remain side in Britain were far more damning. "Special place in hell" indicates a huge level of annoyance but the impotence with which he described the remainers in parliament in particular, writing off the SNP, Lib Dems and so forth was interesting and telling.
Each time the media shows Tusk's comments the more brexiteers will be satisfied with the massive own goal he has scored and many moderates on either side will be driven against the EU
Some on here are almost pleased with Tusk today, but I expect that view is not shared by those who want a second referendum as this attitude will harden against another vote and sadly drive a no deal exit more likely
Tusk today reminds me of Mourinho a few months ago.
The BBC have just reported that Tusk does not speak for all the EU and they consider his statement a serious misjudgement. They do not want a no deal and their door is open
Damage limitation by the EU
LOL. Their damage limitation efforts might get somewhere if this were an isolated off-message comment, but it was clearly deliberate, and just the latest in a serious of such issues coming from the EU side. Last week it was Barnier and Junker with the high fives, boasting about how they'd screwed the UK in the regotiations.
As Casino and others have said, there's mounting evidence that the EU have no intention of acting in good faith over the backstop, which is in part why the deal was considered unacceptable to 432 MPs.
I should say the damage limitation exercise might get somewhere if the remarks were not true.
It's precisely because it will play well in certain quarters he should have kept his stupid trap shut. When you have got somebody looking for an excuse to give in, gloating and sneering is he one sure way to disaster.
Yes, there is much that can be said about the timing, the manner, the wording etc, but not a word about him being wrong, because he wasn't.
If Cameron had supported leave and used the civil service to come up with a plan, it wouldn’t have been supported. But the EU and Cameron thought there was no risk, no reason to give anything in order to mitigate. Then they allowed a nebulous question thinking no one would support. I think the blame lies wider sand deeper than leavers who played the field in front of them
That's a very good point.
If Leave, led by Cameron or anybody else, had come up with a credible plan it would have lost, because you could not have got a majority of the electorate to vote for it.
Same if the EU had been honest about its eurofederalism. At least it didn't just plough ahead and do it anyway.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
No time for high horses. He's right. 100% right. Nothing wrong with telling it like it is. Listen to the excellent Sinn Fein lady on Channel 4. She makes our Tory government spokespeople sound like donkeys.*
I appreciate that Mr Tusk has been blunt. I appreciate that his message has not been well-received by Leavers. Could one of those outraged Leavers articulate what it is about what he says that they find so upsetting?
For t be grateful for continued supplication. I suspect after this we will see a further increase in support for no deal, supposedly what the EU don’t want.
So you're outraged. What is it, precisely, that outrages you about what he said? People advocated Leave, telling us that it would be the easiest deal in human history. None of them claimed that a deal would not be struck. But none of them had a plan to deal with the questions that came up, even in outline.
I’ll put it simply for you. I supported Remain. However anyone with a reasonable mind - not easy I know - will admit that the pack was stacked against Leave. The entire weight of the government and the EU supporting remain. Obama got roped in. Cameron set the rules and left the question vague so as to stoke project fear. And leave reasonably in the circumstances decided not to play. They didn’t have te weight of the civil service behind them to help.
So In effect leave did what they had to. I’m not outraged but offended by Tusk language and behaviour. If he wants to ape his namesake Trump then fine, but I expect better and more civilised language from political leaders. His comments are likely to harden opinion egainst the EU rather than endear, and as such I think his words are irresponsible. I equally think the same of the brexiteers invoking ww2 and Dday or saying we sorted out two world wars. None of this should be language of any mainstream politician.
Well said. Mark Francois' crap about the Germans was offensive and stupid, even if there was a kernel of emotional truth in it (in terms of how some Brits - and other Europeans - perceive Germany). Same goes for Tusk.
Indeed given Tusk's much more elevated position, and his unelected status, his remarks were even more foolish. It all needs to be dialled down or we will end up with No Deal AND outright and ongoing hostility, which benefits precisely no one. What is the point in gloating and goading? Shut the F up. Buncha kids on both sides.
Let's be fair though, Tusk's comments about the remain side in Britain were far more damning. "Special place in hell" indicates a huge level of annoyance but the impotence with which he described the remainers in parliament in particular, writing off the SNP, Lib Dems and so forth was interesting and telling.
He expected them to do the EU's bidding.
He's angry that they've failed.
He's astonished that nobody has carried forward the Remain cause.
When the Show Trials begin, Corbyn will be one of the first up.
How is it useful for a person who engages in high stakes diplomacy to engage in behaviour seemingly designed to aid a position he and his organisation are officially not in favour of?
I'm reasonably certain this is a calculated act of ridicule towards Brexiteers, not some off-the-cuff remark from a man with no internal censor. Varadkar seems in on it.
This was a remark laser-guided to let the UK know how seriously the EU is taking May's latest doomed displacement activity.
The clitoris has 8,000 nerve endings yet isn't as sensitive as a Brexiteer.
Yeah, this is going to be the opening to Sunday's piece.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
Before I (finally) go, there's an interesting blog in the Spectator on GateOfTusks. It says his remarks were probably meant to annoy - Tusk was letting off steam. But more importantly, it shows that the EU has finally, and despairingly, realised that Britain really is leaving, there won't be a 2nd vote and Remain, so the Barnier-Tusk plan to punish into staying has failed.
The Speccie speculates that this is a positive outcome, as it means the EU might now seriously engage on the backstop, as the only alternative is No Deal (and they truly don't want that)
I'd link but I can't find it. No idea if the Spec is right. But at least it is an upbeat angle on what could be seen as a depressing political day.
Later.
I could have told them that two years ago.
But, as a Brexiteer, they would have ignored me whilst welcoming the likes of A C Grayling with open arms.
Each time the media shows Tusk's comments the more brexiteers will be satisfied with the massive own goal he has scored and many moderates on either side will be driven against the EU
Some on here are almost pleased with Tusk today, but I expect that view is not shared by those who want a second referendum as this attitude will harden against another vote and sadly drive a no deal exit more likely
Tusk today reminds me of Mourinho a few months ago.
The BBC have just reported that Tusk does not speak for all the EU and they consider his statement a serious misjudgement. They do not want a no deal and their door is open
Damage limitation by the EU
LOL. Their damage limitation efforts might get somewhere if this were an isolated off-message comment, but it was clearly deliberate, and just the latest in a serious of such issues coming from the EU side. Last week it was Barnier and Junker with the high fives, boasting about how they'd screwed the UK in the regotiations.
As Casino and others have said, there's mounting evidence that the EU have no intention of acting in good faith over the backstop, which is in part why the deal was considered unacceptable to 432 MPs.
I should say the damage limitation exercise might get somewhere if the remarks were not true.
It's precisely because it will play well in certain quarters he should have kept his stupid trap shut. When you have got somebody looking for an excuse to give in, gloating and sneering is he one sure way to disaster.
Yes, there is much that can be said about the timing, the manner, the wording etc, but not a word about him being wrong, because he wasn't.
If Cameron had supported leave and used the civil service to come up with a plan, it wouldn’t have been supported. But the EU and Cameron thought there was in front of them
That's a very good point.
If Leave, led by Cameron or anybody else, had come up with a credible plan it would have lost, because you could not have got a majority of the electorate to vote for it.
Same if the EU had been honest about its eurofederalism. At least it didn't just plough ahead and do it anyway.
Oh.. wait a minute.
Lies on all sides, Casino. Look where it's got us.
If a certain other Donald T had said his opponents deserved to be in hell, half his country's media (and plenty from other countries) would have been falling over themselves to explain why it proved he wasn't a fit person to hold political office.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
Before I (finally) go, there's an interesting blog in the Spectator on GateOfTusks. It says his remarks were probably meant to annoy - Tusk was letting off steam. But more importantly, it shows that the EU has finally, and despairingly, realised that Britain really is leaving, there won't be a 2nd vote and Remain, so the Barnier-Tusk plan to punish into staying has failed.
The Speccie speculates that this is a positive outcome, as it means the EU might now seriously engage on the backstop, as the only alternative is No Deal (and they truly don't want that)
I'd link but I can't find it. No idea if the Spec is right. But at least it is an upbeat angle on what could be seen as a depressing political day.
Later.
I could have told them that two years ago.
But, as a Brexiteer, they would have ignored me whilst welcoming the likes of A C Grayling with open arms.
I mean, they actually believed him.
But there will not be No Deal. TM has said so. She said it again today, in Ireland.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
No matter how many times that the EU27 repeat that the backstop is not up for renegotiation, May and the Brexiteers are too thick to listen. There reaches a point where Tusk has to be very explicit and blunt in order to be heard.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
Before I (finally) go, there's an interesting blog in the Spectator on GateOfTusks. It says his remarks were probably meant to annoy - Tusk was letting off steam. But more importantly, it shows that the EU has finally, and despairingly, realised that Britain really is leaving, there won't be a 2nd vote and Remain, so the Barnier-Tusk plan to punish into staying has failed.
The Speccie speculates that this is a positive outcome, as it means the EU might now seriously engage on the backstop, as the only alternative is No Deal (and they truly don't want that)
I'd link but I can't find it. No idea if the Spec is right. But at least it is an upbeat angle on what could be seen as a depressing political day.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
You have said that before!
I try not to get to exercised about politicians articulating insults, it is why I don't watch PMQ's these days as I find it irritating and within a week all is forgotten!
Let's be fair though, Tusk's comments about the remain side in Britain were far more damning. "Special place in hell" indicates a huge level of annoyance but the impotence with which he described the remainers in parliament in particular, writing off the SNP, Lib Dems and so forth was interesting and telling.
He expected them to do the EU's bidding.
He's angry that they've failed.
He's astonished that nobody has carried forward the Remain cause.
When the Show Trials begin, Corbyn will be one of the first up.
Cameron carried forward the Remain cause. He lost. They haven't accepted that but by and large as a nation we have, that's the problem.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
No time for high horses. He's right. 100% right. Nothing wrong with telling it like it is. Listen to the excellent Sinn Fein lady on Channel 4. She makes our Tory government spokespeople sound like donkeys.*
Each time the media shows Tusk's comments the more brexiteers will be satisfied with the massive own goal he has scored and many moderates on either side will be driven against the EU
Some on here are almost pleased with Tusk today, but I expect that view is not shared by those who want a second referendum as this attitude will harden against another vote and sadly drive a no deal exit more likely
Tusk today reminds me of Mourinho a few months ago.
The BBC have just reported that Tusk does not speak for all the EU and they consider his statement a serious misjudgement. They do not want a no deal and their door is open
Damage limitation by the EU
LOL. Their damage limitation efforts might get somewhere if this were an isolated off-message comment, but it was clearly deliberate, and just the latest in a serious of such issues coming from the EU side. Last week it was Barnier and Junker with the high fives, boasting about how they'd screwed the UK in the regotiations.
As Casino and others have said, there's mounting evidence that the EU have no intention of acting in good faith over the backstop, which is in part why the deal was considered unacceptable to 432 MPs.
I should say the damage limitation exercise might get somewhere if the remarks were not true.
It's precisely because it will play well in certain quarters he should have kept his stupid trap shut. When you have got somebody looking for an excuse to give in, gloating and sneering is he one sure way to disaster.
Yes, there is much that can be said about the timing, the manner, the wording etc, but not a word about him being wrong, because he wasn't.
If Cameron had supported leave and used the civil service to come up with a plan, it wouldn’t have been supported. But the EU and Cameron thought there was in front of them
That's a very good point.
If Leave, led by Cameron or anybody else, had come up with a credible plan it would have lost, because you could not have got a majority of the electorate to vote for it.
Same if the EU had been honest about its eurofederalism. At least it didn't just plough ahead and do it anyway.
Oh.. wait a minute.
Lies on all sides, Casino. Look where it's got us.
The EU was always out to punish us by giving us a terrible deal, a deal so shite we would Remain, as Donald Tusk clearly expected (which is one reason, Mr Meeks, why Tusk's remarks are so ridiculous - he is just angry that this punitive approach maybe hasn't worked)
The EU is acting as an enemy, and has been, all along. It cannot be trusted, it is only interested in giving us pain. It wants to hurt us, pour encourager les autres, and just because.
We are Lutherans, they are Jesuits.
They are not enemies, but they are pursuing their interests not our interests. Why should anyone be surprised or annoyed by that?
We shouldn't, at all, but we should be prepared to do the same. No-one since Thatcher has realised this basic truth.
Thatcher’s actual record was the most integrationist since Heath, and she gave Ireland a role in the government of Northern Ireland.
Correct me if I'm wrong but there was only one PM between Thatcher and Heath!
To continue the literary theme, not so much Game of Tusks as Much Ado About Nothing. Tusk is the EU - he is speaking to their interest but also to the fundamental as they see it - we have a WDA, we are refusing to back it so the onus is on us to come up with alternative proposals of some description.
Clearly, taking out the backstop a la Brady was a non-starter but we have publicly and unequivocally and no matter how much we find the idea distasteful, to be the ones making the next move. A small amount of national humiliation now in exchange for a much better relationship with the EU in the future.
May's problem is of the two proposals that do seem to have a majority, one is unacceptable to the EU while the other (a permanent CU) is acceptable to large sections of the Conservative Party. May's options are either to throw the Conservative Party under a bus (which I could certainly live with) or throw us all under a bus.
However, it now seems the proponents of "White Wednesday" from 1992 are now claiming we may even prosper under a No Deal exit - okay, on the one hand we will be running out of food and on the other the sunlit uplands of prosperity await.
I read in the Standard May's date with destiny or disaster is being pushed further back into February presumably to allow a bit more Project Fear but the problem with playing poker with a poor hand is you have to know how to bluff and you have to be playing opponents who will be afraid to call your bluff.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
You have said that before!
I try not to get to exercised about politicians articulating insults, it is why I don't watch PMQ's these days as I find it irritating and within a week all is forgotten!
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
No time for high horses. He's right. 100% right. Nothing wrong with telling it like it is. Listen to the excellent Sinn Fein lady on Channel 4. She makes our Tory government spokespeople sound like donkeys.*
(*What a pleasant change from Adams and Co)
So you are content that remain is off the agenda
Maybe Leave or Deal have to destroy themselves before Remain can be looked at again?
Let's be fair though, Tusk's comments about the remain side in Britain were far more damning. "Special place in hell" indicates a huge level of annoyance but the impotence with which he described the remainers in parliament in particular, writing off the SNP, Lib Dems and so forth was interesting and telling.
I think he was highlighting the lack of democracy in the UK and how unbalanced a union it is. Hopefully we will be out of it soon and back dealing with sensible people in the EU.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
No time for high horses. He's right. 100% right. Nothing wrong with telling it like it is. Listen to the excellent Sinn Fein lady on Channel 4. She makes our Tory government spokespeople sound like donkeys.*
(*What a pleasant change from Adams and Co)
So you are content that remain is off the agenda
Maybe Leave or Deal have to destroy themselves before Remain can be looked at again?
Let's be fair though, Tusk's comments about the remain side in Britain were far more damning. "Special place in hell" indicates a huge level of annoyance but the impotence with which he described the remainers in parliament in particular, writing off the SNP, Lib Dems and so forth was interesting and telling.
I think he was highlighting the lack of democracy in the UK and how unbalanced a union it is. Hopefully we will be out of it soon and back dealing with sensible people in the EU.
Obviously all this time travelling has resulted in him becoming disorientated. We had the peoples' vote more than 2 years ago.
Starfleet never did understand the Maquis.
The Maquis were pretty much wiped out, they should have never seceded from the rebellion.
A lesson for Brexiteers?
Call me Michael Eddington, but this is the thing you remainer types will never get. Sometimes, you've got to go down fighting for the freedom you believe in.
I don't really care what Tusk said. I really don't care what he thinks. He means nothing to me. Another non elected functionary.
I do get mildly irritated by those in the UK who jump on every opportunity to amplify any denigration of their own country or its leaders but that is a separate matter. We are divided as a country and that makes us weaker. It is unfortunate. We can only hope these divisions start to heal after we have left.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
Before I (finally) go, there's an interesting blog in the Spectator on GateOfTusks. It says his remarks were probably meant to annoy - Tusk was letting off steam. But more importantly, it shows that the EU has finally, and despairingly, realised that Britain really is leaving, there won't be a 2nd vote and Remain, so the Barnier-Tusk plan to punish into staying has failed.
The Speccie speculates that this is a positive outcome, as it means the EU might now seriously engage on the backstop, as the only alternative is No Deal (and they truly don't want that)
I'd link but I can't find it. No idea if the Spec is right. But at least it is an upbeat angle on what could be seen as a depressing political day.
Later.
I could have told them that two years ago.
But, as a Brexiteer, they would have ignored me whilst welcoming the likes of A C Grayling with open arms.
I mean, they actually believed him.
But there will not be No Deal. TM has said so. She said it again today, in Ireland.
You do believe her, don't you?
I think May has ruled out every possible option. Which particular axiom she will break is anyone's guess. I mean we could leave without a deal and then state the day after Brexit that we won't construct any sort of border in Ireland
Let's be fair though, Tusk's comments about the remain side in Britain were far more damning. "Special place in hell" indicates a huge level of annoyance but the impotence with which he described the remainers in parliament in particular, writing off the SNP, Lib Dems and so forth was interesting and telling.
He expected them to do the EU's bidding.
He's angry that they've failed.
He's astonished that nobody has carried forward the Remain cause.
When the Show Trials begin, Corbyn will be one of the first up.
Cameron carried forward the Remain cause. He lost. They haven't accepted that but by and large as a nation we have, that's the problem.
A cause doesn't die because of a set-back, even one as severe as a referendum vote. It was close, and the majority arose from a varied and largely incoherent coalition, as evidenced by subsequent events. There was good reason for Remainers to continue arguing their case, but like the Leave side, it didn't find a plausible and coherent leader, or a plan.
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
No matter how many times that the EU27 repeat that the backstop is not up for renegotiation, May and the Brexiteers are too thick to listen. There reaches a point where Tusk has to be very explicit and blunt in order to be heard.
His language was crass and timing was idiotic
The timing was perfect. The language got noticed even by Tories with a tin ear.
Obviously all this time travelling has resulted in him becoming disorientated. We had the peoples' vote more than 2 years ago.
Starfleet never did understand the Maquis.
The Maquis were pretty much wiped out, they should have never seceded from the rebellion.
A lesson for Brexiteers?
Call me Michael Eddington, but this is the thing you remainer types will never get. Sometimes, you've got to go down fighting for the freedom you believe in.
Live free or die.
Bad example. He didn't live free, he ended up in prison before being taken out for a suicide mission and dying there.
How is it useful for a person who engages in high stakes diplomacy to engage in behaviour seemingly designed to aid a position he and his organisation are officially not in favour of?
I'm reasonably certain this is a calculated act of ridicule towards Brexiteers, not some off-the-cuff remark from a man with no internal censor. Varadkar seems in on it.
This was a remark laser-guided to let the UK know how seriously the EU is taking May's latest doomed displacement activity.
The clitoris has 8,000 nerve endings yet isn't as sensitive as a Brexiteer.
Hilarious stuff today from the Tuskmeister. You have lol. Hell: It ain’t half hot mum!
Good for Tusk. He sounded really angry. There was no humour whatsoever.
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
As you are a remainer how do you think his comments has helped the peoples vote campaign
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
No matter how many times that the EU27 repeat that the backstop is not up for renegotiation, May and the Brexiteers are too thick to listen. There reaches a point where Tusk has to be very explicit and blunt in order to be heard.
His language was crass and timing was idiotic
The timing was perfect. The languague got noticed even by Tories with a tin ear.
Yes. It's stiffened their resolve and increased the chances of no deal.
He must be very confident of the capital reserves of the Eurozone banking sector.
You wonder whether confidence is the same as realism...
(Oh, and my Grammar Nazi is now singing the Horst Wessel. A bit more and it will be on 'Person called Romanes, they go the house?')
Brexit has done weird things . For those of us who remember the troubles we were led to believe Sinn Fein were evil and as as someone who strongly believed in the Union , the thought of Scotland dissolving that was horrifying .
Now Sinn Fein look forward thinking and liberal and I’d welcome Scotland becoming independent . The UK is not what I thought it was and Brexit has taken the veneer off , Scotland needs to escape the horrible rancid xenophobia south of the border .
It’s over for the UK , reputation in tatters and divisions that will take a very long time to heal .
Comments
In the event of no deal, which do you think will get more of an airing in the UK?
1) Tusk's comments today
2) Or all those comments from Gove et al saying No Deal was Project Fear/that we held all the aces, there'd be only sunlit uplands etc.
Who knew that Brexiteers were humourless, irony-devoid dullards who fly into high-pitched screeches of vituperative remonstration with anyone that dares remind them quite how royally they have fucked Brexit up?
Oh wait, E V E R Y O N E.
I think Tusk and the EU has been playing good cop/ bad cop.
Tusk has been in the role of bad cop all through the negotiations.
I suspect the EU will show some skirt in the next few days.
I am not taken in by these comments!
Junker's replacement will be voted on by the new Parliament when it meets.
My major concern is the same as with all those people who slagged off the deal in such strong language being necessary to then see it through - even if they want to, and even if the EU want to 'show some skirt' as you put it, given the strength of their comments to refuse, well, anything, politically I don't see how either lot back down. The very things that might allow enough politicians to politically justify changing their view are the very things that the EU has already categorically ruled out. They must have a very nice skirt to show us!
Triggering a bunch of gammon-scented snowflakes isn't going to be high on anyone's list of things to worry about. Be *amused* by, certainly. But no more than that.
I can't help thinking that maybe if we made a habit of brutally ripping the piss out of brexiteers in public more frequently, we'd not be deep in this shite in the first place.
Isn't really in a position to criticise anyone else.
Political commentators like to make a lot of these as somehow being a game changer , they never are . This will be fish and chip paper by the weekend .
But the timing of this is awful. And one foolish word in the wrong place can have terrible effects.
Just ask Neville Chamberlain.
If Leave, led by Cameron or anybody else, had come up with a credible plan it would have lost, because you could not have got a majority of the electorate to vote for it.
How is it useful for a person who engages in high stakes diplomacy to engage in behaviour seemingly designed to aid a position he and his organisation are officially not in favour of? Why would we want politicians who have no filter? There's a lot of shit nations could talk about each other, but generally it is not helpful to anyone to do that so bluntly.
People being prepare to say what they mean sounds great in theory, but in his position is it responsible? Glorifying acting like a twat is out of the Trump playbook though.
As SeanT notes, taunting each other like 13 year olds is just pathetic. It's not to be celebrated.
That said I think the expectations on the UK Brexiteer side were so high anything will seem like a bad deal.
It all goes back to the simple proposition that the best deal is the one we have within the EU.
I have just got a Samsung S9 fine. All very lovely. Came with a clear case to protect the back and a screen protector. Unfortunately, despite changing the settings to increase its touch sensitivity, when pressing option 1, 2 etc on phone calls they don't get through.
Any recommendations for a screen protector or case that protects the phone without buggering up the touch sensitivity, please?
And, no, not those awful films which - no matter what I do - always end up with silly bubbles in them.
Thanks in advance.
At worst he is assisting an outcome the EU is officially against. At best he is being a childish twat. But being right makes that ok?
This was a remark laser-guided to let the UK know how seriously the EU is taking May's latest doomed displacement activity.
She would do better to cut them loose. But that means we head for No Deal because the opposition for their own - separate - reasons are unwilling to vote for a transition deal.
So the ERG's main claim to fame will not be, as they hope, Brexit but rather that they were Corbyn's useful idiots.
Son's 200-mile London-Devon journey beats ambulance
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-47146518
And what exactly is the scenario in which he made No Deal any more likely? May returns empty-handed and the ERG all say "Well, we didn't get what we wanted, but at least the EU were polite about it, so we're all going to perform screetching U-turns and vote for the deal"?
What could possibly go wrong?
I'll be quite surprised if major carriers get rid of inclusive roaming, although there might be a few changes at the edges that impact intensive users. What is likely though is that the cheapest or discount tariffs drop roaming, home only tariffs in effect, but that's been happening for a while now even whilst we remain in the EU.
Why make a deal with people who think you deserve to be in hell, in a joke or not?
I'd still want one, but stuff like this only helps one side.
Something like https://www.zagg.com/us/en_us/invisibleshield if you can find it in the UK.
A total of 17.2 million people might have voted Leave but that only amounted to 51.9%
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/10/18/the-nearest-run-thing/
I suspect he was echoing the feeling among the 27 countries and the 17 million in this country who aren't Leavers
Very interesting that you applaud the political instincts of the Trump like though. Say what you feel, angrily insult others, it's a good way to do business.
I am annoyed, not because of his anger which is evident on here daily, but because he risks hardening attitudes to the EU and makes a deal more difficult
I believe he finally finished off remain in the EU as any likely end destination
I do get mildly irritated by those in the UK who jump on every opportunity to amplify any denigration of their own country or its leaders but that is a separate matter. We are divided as a country and that makes us weaker. It is unfortunate. We can only hope these divisions start to heal after we have left.
They always ALWAYS question from the europhile centre-left and don't even bother to hide their partisanship.
Ofcom should have reprimanded and fined them a long time ago.
He's angry that they've failed.
Professor X has spoken.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/hot-topics/brexit/peoples-vote-democratic-brexit-patrick-stewart/
Oh.. wait a minute.
(*What a pleasant change from Adams and Co)
When the Show Trials begin, Corbyn will be one of the first up.
But, as a Brexiteer, they would have ignored me whilst welcoming the likes of A C Grayling with open arms.
I mean, they actually believed him.
You do believe her, don't you?
I try not to get to exercised about politicians articulating insults, it is why I don't watch PMQ's these days as I find it irritating and within a week all is forgotten!
A lesson for Brexiteers?
Don't all Scot's like a drink?
To continue the literary theme, not so much Game of Tusks as Much Ado About Nothing. Tusk is the EU - he is speaking to their interest but also to the fundamental as they see it - we have a WDA, we are refusing to back it so the onus is on us to come up with alternative proposals of some description.
Clearly, taking out the backstop a la Brady was a non-starter but we have publicly and unequivocally and no matter how much we find the idea distasteful, to be the ones making the next move. A small amount of national humiliation now in exchange for a much better relationship with the EU in the future.
May's problem is of the two proposals that do seem to have a majority, one is unacceptable to the EU while the other (a permanent CU) is acceptable to large sections of the Conservative Party. May's options are either to throw the Conservative Party under a bus (which I could certainly live with) or throw us all under a bus.
However, it now seems the proponents of "White Wednesday" from 1992 are now claiming we may even prosper under a No Deal exit - okay, on the one hand we will be running out of food and on the other the sunlit uplands of prosperity await.
I read in the Standard May's date with destiny or disaster is being pushed further back into February presumably to allow a bit more Project Fear but the problem with playing poker with a poor hand is you have to know how to bluff and you have to be playing opponents who will be afraid to call your bluff.
Would be nice, but where would you find them?
Live free or die.
Hilarious stuff today from the Tuskmeister. You have lol. Hell: It ain’t half hot mum!
He must be very confident of the capital reserves of the Eurozone banking sector.
You wonder whether confidence is the same as realism...
(Oh, and my Grammar Nazi is now singing the Horst Wessel. A bit more and it will be on 'Person called Romanes, they go the house?')
Now Sinn Fein look forward thinking and liberal and I’d welcome Scotland becoming independent . The UK is not what I thought it was and Brexit has taken the veneer off , Scotland needs to escape the horrible rancid xenophobia south of the border .
It’s over for the UK , reputation in tatters and divisions that will take a very long time to heal .