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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn’s Ipsos-MORI ratings take a huge tumble with 72% saying

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited February 8 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn’s Ipsos-MORI ratings take a huge tumble with 72% saying they are dissatisfied with him

Corbyn's net Ipsos-MORI satisfaction ratings drop from a net minus 32% to 55%. Chart from @standardnews pic.twitter.com/w7YRizjdmJ

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 15,397
    First circle of hell.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 15,153
    Been here before. Just wait for another election campaign and see what Jezza can do...
  • yes but..... the parties are tied in the opinion poll

    (cough cough)
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 3,199
    "Historically these ratings have been a better pointer to general election outcomes than the voting intention numbers."

    What exactly does this mean?
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344

    yes but..... the parties are tied in the opinion poll

    (cough cough)

    There was an unfortunate lack of room that meant the article couldn't contain the unimportant voting intentions....
  • stodgestodge Posts: 5,495
    Endillion said:

    stodge said:

    The one thing you can never do now is change your mind. Consistency is everything - I saw for instance a snide comment about Siobhan Benita having at one time been pro-Heathrow expansion and now standing as London Mayor for the anti-expansion LDs.

    Oh, the hypocrisy, the inconsistency, the flip-flopping that makes her by definition wholly unsuitable for any public office.

    Show me someone who has never changed their mind about anything and I'll show you a fool. I changed my mind on EU membership, I changed my mind a number of times on the nuclear deterrent. Being open to persuasion and listening to reasoned argument seems perfectly reasonable - having a single unflinching position on all things seems unnecessarily rigid.

    Having an online history means someone can find what you once said and use it as a weapon against you. That is one of the huge negatives about social media.

    Has she changed her mind? The comment you refer to implied more that her personal position on a key issue clashes somewhat with that of her new political home. In the same way as Tim Farron didn't "change his mind" on certain of his beliefs, just because he became Lib Dem leader - a circle he ultimately failed to square satisfactorily.
    I don't support the Party on a second referendum or re-joining the EU so the question is to what extent does it or should it matter if a member, activist or candidate doesn't agree with every scintilla of Party policy?

    Parties, we are often told, are broad churches or loose coalitions and both the current Conservative and Labour parties are fine examples of that.

    Within the broad church or a loose coalition there can and should be a tolerance for a range of views. The problem is opponents try to portray a divergence from the official party line as some form of hypocrisy or a negative thing. Very often, it isn't.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 5,431

    yes but..... the parties are tied in the opinion poll

    (cough cough)

    There was an unfortunate lack of room that meant the article couldn't contain the unimportant voting intentions....
    I regard leader ratings as vastly more important and indicative than voting intention surveys. The former are asking for an opinion - unlike the latter.

    I do report in the header that LAB and CON are tied.

    Kinnock and EdM are good examples of LAB leaders with poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 5,431
    GIN1138 said:

    Been here before. Just wait for another election campaign and see what Jezza can do...

    Last time, of course, Jezza lost - something which his fervent admirers tend to ignore.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 5,495
    Afternoon all :)

    For those of us dreading the idea of a Saturday having to navigate round Naas, Cagnes Sur Mer and some venues in South Africa, some news:

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/equine-flu-outbreak/live-blog-racing-bids-to-recover-from-outbreak-of-equine-flu/365538

    The BHA will make a further announcement this afternoon. The question will be to what extent equine flu has got into the thoroughbred population. There are rumours the veterinary services have struggle do cope with the sudden demand for swabs and checks.

    Nick Rust spoke of "weeks" this morning which would send a shiver through Cheltenham (Gold Cup day is five weeks away) but there will be huge pressure to re-start racing as soon as possible.

    I do think there may be an additional delay until Saturday week.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 25,128

    GIN1138 said:

    Been here before. Just wait for another election campaign and see what Jezza can do...

    Last time, of course, Jezza lost - something which his fervent admirers tend to ignore.
    Yeh, but he got to play Glastonbury.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 7,198
    Richest man in the world vs Sleazy tabloid publisher.
    Trump involvement.
    Fascinating. http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/with-bezos-has-the-enquirer-messed-with-the-wrong-guy-1439388227564
  • yes but..... the parties are tied in the opinion poll

    (cough cough)

    There was an unfortunate lack of room that meant the article couldn't contain the unimportant voting intentions....
    You need to look closer.
  • glwglw Posts: 5,242
    FPT:

    Thailand might have a Princess Prime Minister:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47167378

    So you could literally go to jail for criticising the Thai PM soon. If we had that law here PB would be mostly made up of lifers posting illicitly from our smuggled mobile phones.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344
    @TheScreamingEagles @MikeSmithson

    My bad!

    I went off Scrapheap's reply....

    In fairness Corbyn is also a good example of poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 53,480

    Richest man in the world vs Sleazy tabloid publisher.
    Trump involvement.
    Fascinating. http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/with-bezos-has-the-enquirer-messed-with-the-wrong-guy-1439388227564

    Not sure I have much sympathy with Bezos with the amount of hit pieces the Washington Post puts out.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 3,199

    yes but..... the parties are tied in the opinion poll

    (cough cough)

    There was an unfortunate lack of room that meant the article couldn't contain the unimportant voting intentions....
    I regard leader ratings as vastly more important and indicative than voting intention surveys. The former are asking for an opinion - unlike the latter.

    I do report in the header that LAB and CON are tied.

    Kinnock and EdM are good examples of LAB leaders with poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.
    If you'd gone by leader ratings in 1992 you'd have predicted the lib dems would romp home.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 30,611
    Corbyn is less popular in the UK than Macron is in France!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 23,213
    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,353
    Timing is important in politics.

    Corbyn has just come up with a very viable compromise on Brexit that unlike May's could have had widespread acceptance. It suits the EU, moderate remainers and fulfils the brief of leaving the EU.

    A year ago it would have been a stark contrast to the Tories divisions.

    Now I have a feeling that the mood amongst remainers has shifted and that only complete cancellation of Brexit will satisfy them.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 26,015
    Curiously, almost exactly the same percentage are dissatisfied with the government as are dissatisfied with Jeremy Corbyn. That presumably explains why Labour are nevertheless neck and neck with the Conservatives in this poll.
  • @TheScreamingEagles @MikeSmithson

    My bad!

    I went off Scrapheap's reply....

    In fairness Corbyn is also a good example of poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.

    PB has always prioritised leader ratings over VI.

    This is my piece a few days before the 2017 general election pointing out Mrs May's ratings were collapsing like the French army in 1940.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/06/04/the-polling-that-should-worry-mrs-may-and-all-tories/
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 1,815
    Charlie Kennedy would be absolutely cleaning up in the current political climate. Such a loss.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 23,213

    Curiously, almost exactly the same percentage are dissatisfied with the government as are dissatisfied with Jeremy Corbyn. That presumably explains why Labour are nevertheless neck and neck with the Conservatives in this poll.

    And interesting too that respondents are considerably more dissatisfied with the government than with Theresa May.

    That might be caused by the ERG antics and the general disunity and chaos in the Conservative Party, but it might also be partly a conflation of 'the government' and 'MPs as a whole'.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 23,213

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
    As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 25,128

    Charlie Kennedy would be absolutely cleaning up in the current political climate. Such a loss.

    :+1:
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344

    @TheScreamingEagles @MikeSmithson

    My bad!

    I went off Scrapheap's reply....

    In fairness Corbyn is also a good example of poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.

    PB has always prioritised leader ratings over VI.

    This is my piece a few days before the 2017 general election pointing out Mrs May's ratings were collapsing like the French army in 1940.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/06/04/the-polling-that-should-worry-mrs-may-and-all-tories/
    And how did her lead look prior to any election campaign, much like the situation we are in now?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 23,213
    There's a fuller account of the antisemitism report here:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-anti-semitism-breaks-record-high-for-3rd-year-in-a-row-says-watchdog/

    Some pretty horrendous stuff there.
  • @TheScreamingEagles @MikeSmithson

    My bad!

    I went off Scrapheap's reply....

    In fairness Corbyn is also a good example of poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.

    PB has always prioritised leader ratings over VI.

    This is my piece a few days before the 2017 general election pointing out Mrs May's ratings were collapsing like the French army in 1940.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/06/04/the-polling-that-should-worry-mrs-may-and-all-tories/
    And how did her lead look prior to any election campaign, much like the situation we are in now?
    They were much more impressive in 2017.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 30,611
    SeanT said:

    On topic, it will be interesting to see if his new if ludicrous Soft Brexit letter salvages Jezbollah's reputation on Brexit, and thereby his career.

    I think it is likely too late. He has been exposed as, not just a Brexiteer, but as a lying hypocritical Brexiteer, who pretended to be Remainy, when he is about as Leaverish as it gets. Remainers will never forgive or forget, so this has probably done serious, permanent damage to his reputation.

    Starmer clearly wrote the letter. It sets out a viable, coherent, least worse Brexit option that most voters would support, if not enthusiastically. I’d be very surprised if Corbyn actually believed in much of it. But May will reject it in any case.

  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
    As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."
    I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...

    I think we already knew that.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 20,945

    Curiously, almost exactly the same percentage are dissatisfied with the government as are dissatisfied with Jeremy Corbyn. That presumably explains why Labour are nevertheless neck and neck with the Conservatives in this poll.

    Which is the tallest dwarf is what the polls reflect.

    A new party could do well in this environment - if it wasn't filled with the low grade dross that currently fills Westminster and Holyrood.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 3,838
    Sorry, Standard, but I do not agree that Labour have been led "into the intellectual wilderness".

    Unless 'intellectual wilderness' just means disagreeing with George Osborne.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 23,213

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
    As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."
    I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...

    I think we already knew that.
    Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344

    @TheScreamingEagles @MikeSmithson

    My bad!

    I went off Scrapheap's reply....

    In fairness Corbyn is also a good example of poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.

    PB has always prioritised leader ratings over VI.

    This is my piece a few days before the 2017 general election pointing out Mrs May's ratings were collapsing like the French army in 1940.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/06/04/the-polling-that-should-worry-mrs-may-and-all-tories/
    And how did her lead look prior to any election campaign, much like the situation we are in now?
    They were much more impressive in 2017.
    It is hard to argue we aren't in deja vu, if May goes then things change but as it stands nobody would be surprised to see those figures change if we went into an election campaign now.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 1,107

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
    What that means, is that people defending Labour against charges of anti-semitism, couldn't manage it without saying anti-semitic things themselves .

    Note that it doesn't necessarily imply that those individuals were members of the Labour party, but quite clearly they are mostly supporters of it.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 12,411

    Charlie Kennedy would be absolutely cleaning up in the current political climate. Such a loss.

    Yes he would but not for that reason. This is when the LibDems need chat show Charlie because their real problem is they are no longer our third-largest party. The SNP is. And the DUP are roughly the same size and far more important. The LibDems need a leader who can tell jokes on the chat shows and panel games because the politics and current affairs producers are no longer required to call them.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 3,199
    If there were to be an imminent snap election, I think the result would largely depend on how receptive the public is to hearing about things other than Brexit.

    If they decide that it's a huge, imminent issue and so naturally it has to dominate the election, then Labour's position excited no-one and pisses a lot of their base off. A dramatic pivot to 2nd referendum might help them... or not. I don't know if they'd have any good options, really.

    On the other hand, if the public decides that politicians have been yammering on about arcane legal technicalities for far too long and they'd really like to hear about literally anything else for a while, I suspect that would hugely play to Labour's advantage and very much wrong-foot May.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 7,198
    Pulpstar said:

    Richest man in the world vs Sleazy tabloid publisher.
    Trump involvement.
    Fascinating. http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/with-bezos-has-the-enquirer-messed-with-the-wrong-guy-1439388227564

    Not sure I have much sympathy with Bezos with the amount of hit pieces the Washington Post puts out.
    Don't think he needs your sympathy.
    Besides I'd rather believe the Washington Post to the National Enquirer.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344
    Endillion said:

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
    What that means, is that people defending Labour against charges of anti-semitism, couldn't manage it without saying anti-semitic things themselves .

    Note that it doesn't necessarily imply that those individuals were members of the Labour party, but quite clearly they are mostly supporters of it.
    Does it mean that?

    I'm not sure why they put the word alleged in there then?

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 2,091
    You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?

    As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 5,793

    Curiously, almost exactly the same percentage are dissatisfied with the government as are dissatisfied with Jeremy Corbyn. That presumably explains why Labour are nevertheless neck and neck with the Conservatives in this poll.

    Maybe people are cottoning onto the fact that our political class as a whole are remarkably unimpressive at the moment? As El Capitano points out below Kennedy would be cleaning up now. As would John Smith, Major, Ashdown, Blair, Heseltine possibly even Kinnock or Brown. I could continue the list...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 30,611

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
    As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."
    I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...

    I think we already knew that.
    Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.
    The golden rule to remember is that there is no evidence of anti-Semitism inside Labour that apologists for anti-Semitism inside Labour will ever accept.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 25,128
    nico67 said:

    You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?

    As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!

    "How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?"

    Until Labour are slaughtered in a GE.

    Even then I wonder.

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 12,411
    OT/Admin -- the posts counter seems to be doing its own thing. I was just marvelling at my 10,001st post, when it changed to my 10,002nd.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 23,213
    SeanT said:

    Curiously, almost exactly the same percentage are dissatisfied with the government as are dissatisfied with Jeremy Corbyn. That presumably explains why Labour are nevertheless neck and neck with the Conservatives in this poll.

    And interesting too that respondents are considerably more dissatisfied with the government than with Theresa May.

    That might be caused by the ERG antics and the general disunity and chaos in the Conservative Party, but it might also be partly a conflation of 'the government' and 'MPs as a whole'.
    Is there any significant politician left in the country who has big, net, positive approval ratings? i.e. do we now hate all of them?

    Bojo used to be popular, likewise Sturgeon. But both have taken serious knocks, and are now disliked.

    Is there anyone else? Ruth Davidson maybe, if she counts as significant? Any others?
    It's very normal for front-line politicians to have net negative ratings, because they will generally get negative ratings from supporters of other parties in nearly all circumstances, and they'll also get some negative ratings from supporters of their own party for being too centrist or not very effective or too extreme or whatever. Overlaid on that you've got dissatisfaction on Brexit (cutting across party lines), and a hung parliament which makes it even harder.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
    As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."
    I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...

    I think we already knew that.
    Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.
    I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.

    If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 3,199
    nico67 said:

    You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?

    As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!

    But Corbyn supporters don't agree with Starmer's politics.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
    As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."
    I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...

    I think we already knew that.
    Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.
    The golden rule to remember is that there is no evidence of anti-Semitism inside Labour that apologists for anti-Semitism inside Labour will ever accept.

    TBH I just agreed with the article Richard linked, usually people aren't quite so upset when you agree with their links... maybe he didn't read it first...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 25,128
    SeanT said:

    Bloody Zio. Get back to Tel Aviv. Corbyn smearer Israel-lover. Etc.
    It's a 'Darkness at Noon' moment potentially.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 3,199
    By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 2,091

    nico67 said:

    You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?

    As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!

    But Corbyn supporters don't agree with Starmer's politics.
    Starmer is a realist who looks and sounds like someone who knows what he’s doing , he’d also salvage some of the over 65 vote which is crucial to win an election .
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 23,213

    I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.

    If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.

    Actually I was completely astonished by the scale of the problem associated with Labour. Accounting for nearly a tenth of all recorded incidents was far more than I would have expected.

    Throwing idiotic insults at me won't alter the facts, I'm afraid, and merely confirms your denial of the issue.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 3,199
    SeanT said:

    By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?

    Yes, he should be retiring from frontline politics.
    I mean, I don't disagree. But until I hear what he's doing wrong and why it's stifling the lib dem comeback, complaints about Vince seem like a fig-leaf for centrist remainers who are in denial about how unpopular their worldview currently is.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 1,107

    Endillion said:

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
    What that means, is that people defending Labour against charges of anti-semitism, couldn't manage it without saying anti-semitic things themselves .

    Note that it doesn't necessarily imply that those individuals were members of the Labour party, but quite clearly they are mostly supporters of it.
    Does it mean that?

    I'm not sure why they put the word alleged in there then?

    I can never tell if you're doing this on purpose or not.

    Ok, let's try this:

    Step 1: There is a series of stories in the national press about alleged anti-semitism within the Labour party
    Step 2: Indignant Corbynites take to Twitter to protest that this isn't and can't be true
    Step 3: A number of posts made during Step 2 are reported to the CST, who conclude that the posts contain anti-semitism

    I saw a horrendous number of tweets last summer suggesting ant-semitism was fine/impossible because Jews have loads of money and control the media...

    Also, if you're looking at the CST report, the size of the word "Labour" in the word cloud on page 43 is somewhat depressing.
  • eekeek Posts: 4,772

    SeanT said:

    By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?

    Yes, he should be retiring from frontline politics.
    I mean, I don't disagree. But until I hear what he's doing wrong and why it's stifling the lib dem comeback, complaints about Vince seem like a fig-leaf for centrist remainers who are in denial about how unpopular their worldview currently is.
    I think the problem is that no-one else wants the job of LibDem leader - they don't have many MPs and most of them have valid reasons for not wanting to be leader....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 15,563

    Charlie Kennedy would be absolutely cleaning up in the current political climate. Such a loss.

    Yes he would but not for that reason. This is when the LibDems need chat show Charlie because their real problem is they are no longer our third-largest party. The SNP is. And the DUP are roughly the same size and far more important. The LibDems need a leader who can tell jokes on the chat shows and panel games because the politics and current affairs producers are no longer required to call them.
    Quite right.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 5,495

    Charlie Kennedy would be absolutely cleaning up in the current political climate. Such a loss.

    You'll get no argument from me on that. It's an interesting counterfactual to consider what would have happened had Kennedy avoided the demons which engulfed him. The truth was the LDs struggled as soon as Cameron became Conservative leader - from then on until the first debate of the 2010 GE the Party was consistently on the defensive.

    As for Vince, he is and always has been viewed as a transitional leader. Initially, most people in the party thought Jo Swinson would take over but Layla Moran has altered the dynamic somewhat.

    Vince will stay through 29/3 - if we exit with a Deal I think he will stand down before the next Conference. If it's a No Deal and a period of renewed instability kicks off that may well change.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,549
    As I occasionaly point out, Christopher Choose is an elderly man who has gone out of his way to enable upskirting and FGM, and has proferred inconsistent and dubious reasons for doing so.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 12,411

    OT/Admin -- the posts counter seems to be doing its own thing. I was just marvelling at my 10,001st post, when it changed to my 10,002nd.

    Oh I see -- it counts the total number of posts. It is a property of the poster, not the post. TIL.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 1,107

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
    As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."
    I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...

    I think we already knew that.
    Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.
    I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.

    If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.
    The report mentions Labour a grand total of 24 times.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 3,199
    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
    What that means, is that people defending Labour against charges of anti-semitism, couldn't manage it without saying anti-semitic things themselves .

    Note that it doesn't necessarily imply that those individuals were members of the Labour party, but quite clearly they are mostly supporters of it.
    Does it mean that?

    I'm not sure why they put the word alleged in there then?

    I can never tell if you're doing this on purpose or not.

    Ok, let's try this:

    Step 1: There is a series of stories in the national press about alleged anti-semitism within the Labour party
    Step 2: Indignant Corbynites take to Twitter to protest that this isn't and can't be true
    Step 3: A number of posts made during Step 2 are reported to the CST, who conclude that the posts contain anti-semitism

    I saw a horrendous number of tweets last summer suggesting ant-semitism was fine/impossible because Jews have loads of money and control the media...

    Also, if you're looking at the CST report, the size of the word "Labour" in the word cloud on page 43 is somewhat depressing.
    I'd have thought an increase in media attention on antisemitism would cause an increase in antisemitic Twitter messages from antisemites across the political spectrum.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,549

    By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?

    Resign? He's not competent and doesn't need the money any more.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 5,793

    nico67 said:

    You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?

    As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!

    But Corbyn supporters don't agree with Starmer's politics.
    Does Starmer have any politics? Genuine question. As a former DPP and the lawyer brought in to lead on Brexit, I, for one, am totally unaware of where he stands within the Party on any other issue.
    Has he ever voiced any opinion on health, education or the economy? Is he on the right, centre or soft left of the Party?
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344

    I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.

    If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.

    Actually I was completely astonished by the scale of the problem associated with Labour. Accounting for nearly a tenth of all recorded incidents was far more than I would have expected.

    Throwing idiotic insults at me won't alter the facts, I'm afraid, and merely confirms your denial of the issue.
    You were shocked that there were arguments in Labour relating to alleged anti semitism?

    You know I have to question that, there clearly have been arguments...I am pretty sure you would have noticed them and discussed them on PB. You can deny what the article you linked says but it just looks a bit silly and I haven't got a problem with what the article says, no denial here. I even mentioned what it says in this post.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 29,841
    SeanT said:

    This YouGov article agrees with me. The most significant politician in the country with noticeable net approval ratings is Ruth Davidson. You have to look quite hard for any others.


    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/11/06/boris-and-pm-are-britains-most-popular-politicians

    And she’s on maternity leave... surely she has to say something meaningful about Brexit before the end of March?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 1,815

    SeanT said:

    By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?

    Yes, he should be retiring from frontline politics.
    I mean, I don't disagree. But until I hear what he's doing wrong and why it's stifling the lib dem comeback, complaints about Vince seem like a fig-leaf for centrist remainers who are in denial about how unpopular their worldview currently is.
    The first problem is a lack of energy. Cable isn't a bad politician though he's still a bit tainted by the Coalition. But the most visible Lib Dems in the media right now are (in order) Layla Moran, Tom Brake, Jo Swinson, and only then Cable. When your education spokesman is more visible than your leader, you know that you've got issues with the leader.

    The second problem is a failure to articulate what the Lib Dems stand for other than being anti-Brexit. Labour is for an interventionist state and universal benefits. The Conservatives under May are for social authoritarianism, low intervention in business, and nativism. What do Cable's Lib Dems believe? Are they interventionist or laissez-faire? Will they, say, invest in the railways like Labour, or try and reduce their demands on the public purse like the Tories? I couldn't even tell you and I'm expecting to vote Lib Dem at the May locals.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344
    Endillion said:

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
    As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."
    I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...

    I think we already knew that.
    Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.
    I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.

    If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.
    The report mentions Labour a grand total of 24 times.
    The article is what me and Richard were discussing, he seems to have a problem with what the article he linked says about Labour and is claiming I am in denial for agreeing with it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 5,793
    SeanT said:

    This YouGov article agrees with me. The most significant politician in the country with noticeable net approval ratings is Ruth Davidson. You have to look quite hard for any others.


    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/11/06/boris-and-pm-are-britains-most-popular-politicians

    Mmmm. And she isn't an MP. Which speaks to something I would say.
  • JSpringJSpring Posts: 57

    nico67 said:

    You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?

    As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!

    "How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?"

    Until Labour are slaughtered in a GE.

    Even then I wonder.

    It goes both ways though. Even if Corbyn led Labour to a 1931-in-reverse avalanche victory he'd still remain a fringe and useless figure to certain people, just as he would remain an infallible figure to certain other people if he led Labour to a 1931-style avalanche defeat.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,549
    GODSDAMMIT! The elderly upskirting fan is Chope not Choose! I want an edit button!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 20,488
    SeanT said:

    On topic, it will be interesting to see if his new if ludicrous Soft Brexit letter salvages Jezbollah's reputation on Brexit, and thereby his career.

    I think it is likely too late. He has been exposed as, not just a Brexiteer, but as a lying hypocritical Brexiteer, who pretended to be Remainy, when he is about as Leaverish as it gets. Remainers will never forgive or forget, so this has probably done serious, permanent damage to his reputation.

    More specifically, his entire reputation rests upon being the champion of the rank and file memberships' view in opposition to the party's previous leadership. Meeting such a significant issue where his own personal views are dramatically out of line with the overwhelming view of his membership was always going to be salutary.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 1,107

    Endillion said:

    I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust

    What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).

    Only quote about Labour I can find

    --------------------------
    It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
    --------------------------

    So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...

    Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
    As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."
    I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...

    I think we already knew that.
    Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.
    I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.

    If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.
    The report mentions Labour a grand total of 24 times.
    The article is what me and Richard were discussing, he seems to have a problem with what the article he linked says about Labour and is claiming I am in denial for agreeing with it.
    He told you to go look up the original report. I can only echo that, and add that you should pay particular attention to page 41.

    https://cst.org.uk/public/data/file/2/9/Incidents Report 2018 - web.pdf
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 3,199

    SeanT said:

    By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?

    Yes, he should be retiring from frontline politics.
    I mean, I don't disagree. But until I hear what he's doing wrong and why it's stifling the lib dem comeback, complaints about Vince seem like a fig-leaf for centrist remainers who are in denial about how unpopular their worldview currently is.
    The first problem is a lack of energy. Cable isn't a bad politician though he's still a bit tainted by the Coalition. But the most visible Lib Dems in the media right now are (in order) Layla Moran, Tom Brake, Jo Swinson, and only then Cable. When your education spokesman is more visible than your leader, you know that you've got issues with the leader.

    The second problem is a failure to articulate what the Lib Dems stand for other than being anti-Brexit. Labour is for an interventionist state and universal benefits. The Conservatives under May are for social authoritarianism, low intervention in business, and nativism. What do Cable's Lib Dems believe? Are they interventionist or laissez-faire? Will they, say, invest in the railways like Labour, or try and reduce their demands on the public purse like the Tories? I couldn't even tell you and I'm expecting to vote Lib Dem at the May locals.
    Surely saying nothing is a perfect articulation of what they stand for. Their rallying cry is "Can't we all just go back to a few years ago when things were nicer?"

    As for visibility, I think the problem might be that they have a simple, clear, almost-universally-agreed-on stance on Brexit. Which is boring. The splits and strife in the Tory and Labour parties dominate the news. This puts the Lib Dems in a similar position to the SNP, who you also rarely hear from on Brexit (except the occasional boring statement nobody remembers or cares about).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 20,488
    viewcode said:

    By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?

    Resign? He's not competent and doesn't need the money any more.
    One of the upcoming women need to step up to the plate. Then he can go.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 3,838
    SeanT said:

    See I wrote "reject" twice in the same paragraph. That's shoddy English, and I would normally and quickly amend it. But I can't, because no Edit button.

    This is bad. It is going to make PB much less euphonious. Comments with glaring errors, prosodical, political and statistical, will litter the page like dog poo.

    Can we have the EDIT button back, please. Thanks.

    DIODIR - do it once, do it right. This is what one of my old big bosses at Lehman Bros used to preach. And 'preach' was the word. He even used to hand out paperweights with that (DIODIR) written on them.

    What a prat, that guy was.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 20,945
    SeanT said:

    This YouGov article agrees with me. The most significant politician in the country with noticeable net approval ratings is Ruth Davidson. You have to look quite hard for any others.


    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/11/06/boris-and-pm-are-britains-most-popular-politicians

    She's popular in the same way Ken Clarke is - anodyne, middle of the road and doesn't offend the foaming mouthed Labour hordes as much as other Conservatives.

    Could such a wet big government type ever lead the Con party ? Let's hope not.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 3,199
    Anorak said:
    I literally looked it up yesterday and I still don't remember
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 7,944

    GIN1138 said:

    Been here before. Just wait for another election campaign and see what Jezza can do...

    Last time, of course, Jezza lost - something which his fervent admirers tend to ignore.
    Indeed - but he denied the Tories an overall majority - something not achieved by Gaitskell , Callaghan, Foot, Kinnock and Milliband. He also managed the biggest jump in popular vote share since 1945 and easily outpolled Blair's 2005 share.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344
    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    I can never tell if you're doing this on purpose or not.

    Ok, let's try this:

    Step 1: There is a series of stories in the national press about alleged anti-semitism within the Labour party
    Step 2: Indignant Corbynites take to Twitter to protest that this isn't and can't be true
    Step 3: A number of posts made during Step 2 are reported to the CST, who conclude that the posts contain anti-semitism

    I saw a horrendous number of tweets last summer suggesting ant-semitism was fine/impossible because Jews have loads of money and control the media...

    Also, if you're looking at the CST report, the size of the word "Labour" in the word cloud on page 43 is somewhat depressing.
    What is the actual question here?

    I have never claimed there is no anti semitism in Labour, less than the Tories or say UKIP but certainly not none. People being abusive online is pretty much a given unfortunately, from and to all groups.

    There has been no concrete evidence of Labour members doing more racist abuse. Work I have seen on abuse given to MPs for example points to Diane Abbott getting more abuse than any other woman MPs.

    Diane is a favourite of Conservatives.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 20,488

    OT/Admin -- the posts counter seems to be doing its own thing. I was just marvelling at my 10,001st post, when it changed to my 10,002nd.

    Oh I see -- it counts the total number of posts. It is a property of the poster, not the post. TIL.
    Nudging up your count by talking to yourself really shouldnt count ;)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,549
    Anorak said:
    "Follow Back Pro-Europe".

    Pause.

    No, me neither. But it seems to keep them happy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 13,585
    TGOHF said:

    SeanT said:

    This YouGov article agrees with me. The most significant politician in the country with noticeable net approval ratings is Ruth Davidson. You have to look quite hard for any others.


    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/11/06/boris-and-pm-are-britains-most-popular-politicians

    She's popular in the same way Ken Clarke is - anodyne, middle of the road and doesn't offend the foaming mouthed Labour hordes as much as other Conservatives.

    Could such a wet big government type ever lead the Con party ? Let's hope not.
    Clarke was one of the best chancellors this country had - and one of the best prime ministers we didn't.
    He still makes the Tory cabinet look like pygmies.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344
    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."
    I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...

    I think we already knew that.
    Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.
    I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.

    If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.
    The report mentions Labour a grand total of 24 times.
    The article is what me and Richard were discussing, he seems to have a problem with what the article he linked says about Labour and is claiming I am in denial for agreeing with it.
    He told you to go look up the original report. I can only echo that, and add that you should pay particular attention to page 41.

    https://cst.org.uk/public/data/file/2/9/Incidents Report 2018 - web.pdf
    He only told me that after he decided he didn't like what the article he linked was saying, just looks a little hypocritical that he liked the article until I pointed out what it said then because it didn't smear Labour liked he hoped I was in denial for agreeing with it.
  • SeanT said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico67 said:

    You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?

    As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!

    But Corbyn supporters don't agree with Starmer's politics.
    Does Starmer have any politics? Genuine question. As a former DPP and the lawyer brought in to lead on Brexit, I, for one, am totally unaware of where he stands within the Party on any other issue.
    Has he ever voiced any opinion on health, education or the economy? Is he on the right, centre or soft left of the Party?
    He's my MP. I have always perceived him as highly careerist, first, and soft left, second. He was a horribly PC DPP. He's also extremely wooden, and bad on TV, I'm not sure why Labourites see him as a saviour, apart from outright desperation.

    I'll say it again, Thornberry is their best choice, on so many levels. She riles people, but the people she riles don't matter. I don't think core Labour voters in the North really care about her flag insult.

    She's competent, she's smart, she's quite articulate, she's a woman (finally, a woman leader of Labour) she's got a decent backstory, she will appeal to centrists and Don't Knows, and the middle classes in the south, she is also just about leftwing enough to satisfy most Corbynites.

    She's a Remainer who would push for, and accept, a very Soft Brexit.

    I think if she were leading Labour they would be 10 points ahead.

    If they were led by Ed Balls they would probably be 15-20 points ahead, but he would never be accepted by the lunatic membership.
    Admit it Sean, you have the hots for her.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 53,480
    viewcode said:

    Anorak said:
    "Follow Back Pro-Europe".

    Pause.

    No, me neither. But it seems to keep them happy.
    Constantly at war with the JC4PM crowd :p
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,549
    kinabalu said:

    SeanT said:

    See I wrote "reject" twice in the same paragraph. That's shoddy English, and I would normally and quickly amend it. But I can't, because no Edit button.

    This is bad. It is going to make PB much less euphonious. Comments with glaring errors, prosodical, political and statistical, will litter the page like dog poo.

    Can we have the EDIT button back, please. Thanks.

    DIODIR - do it once, do it right. This is what one of my old big bosses at Lehman Bros used to preach. And 'preach' was the word. He even used to hand out paperweights with that (DIODIR) written on them.

    What a prat, that guy was.
    Did he have a rubber on the end of his pencil? Because... :)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 20,945
    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF said:

    SeanT said:

    This YouGov article agrees with me. The most significant politician in the country with noticeable net approval ratings is Ruth Davidson. You have to look quite hard for any others.


    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/11/06/boris-and-pm-are-britains-most-popular-politicians

    She's popular in the same way Ken Clarke is - anodyne, middle of the road and doesn't offend the foaming mouthed Labour hordes as much as other Conservatives.

    Could such a wet big government type ever lead the Con party ? Let's hope not.
    Clarke was one of the best chancellors this country had - and one of the best prime ministers we didn't.
    He still makes the Tory cabinet look like pygmies.
    Clarke would have been most lefties choice for the Con leader.

    His Europhilia however is bizarre - almost a cult like devotion.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344
    dixiedean said:

    SeanT said:

    This YouGov article agrees with me. The most significant politician in the country with noticeable net approval ratings is Ruth Davidson. You have to look quite hard for any others.


    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/11/06/boris-and-pm-are-britains-most-popular-politicians

    Mmmm. And she isn't an MP. Which speaks to something I would say.
    If we are going by Yougov Politician ratings then Corbyn is the highest rated Labour politician.

    So the perfect person to lead Labour is.... Corbyn.

    Couldn't agree more.

    https://yougov.co.uk/ratings/overview(popup:ratings/politics/labour-politicians/all)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 3,838
    viewcode said:

    Resign? He's not competent and doesn't need the money any more.

    I like Vince Cable as a politician but I think the problem with his leadership is lack of brio.

    He is 75, and while I would be delighted to reach that age in his apparent condition, I do think that he has 'gone over' and needs to be handing over the torch quite soon.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 20,945
    SeanT said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico67 said:

    You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?

    As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!

    But Corbyn supporters don't agree with Starmer's politics.
    Does Starmer have any politics? Genuine question. As a former DPP and the lawyer brought in to lead on Brexit, I, for one, am totally unaware of where he stands within the Party on any other issue.
    Has he ever voiced any opinion on health, education or the economy? Is he on the right, centre or soft left of the Party?
    He's my MP. I have always perceived him as highly careerist, first, and soft left, second. He was a horribly PC DPP. He's also extremely wooden, and bad on TV, I'm not sure why Labourites see him as a saviour, apart from outright desperation.

    I'll say it again, Thornberry is their best choice, on so many levels. She riles people, but the people she riles don't matter. I don't think core Labour voters in the North really care about her flag insult.

    She's competent, she's smart, she's quite articulate, she's a woman (finally, a woman leader of Labour) she's got a decent backstory, she will appeal to centrists and Don't Knows, and the middle classes in the south, she is also just about leftwing enough to satisfy most Corbynites.

    She's a Remainer who would push for, and accept, a very Soft Brexit.

    I think if she were leading Labour they would be 10 points ahead.

    If they were led by Ed Balls they would probably be 15-20 points ahead, but he would never be accepted by the lunatic membership.
    Too fat though. Britain will never elect a fat female PM anytime soon.

    And a horrendous PC London luvvie who will forever be judge by her flag tweet which showed how out of touch she is. Kryptonite north of Luton
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 15,563

    Anorak said:
    I literally looked it up yesterday and I still don't remember
    abbreviations.com has six meanings, one of them being Fluorocarbon Based Plasma Etching, and another 'Follow Back Pro EU'.

    Does that help.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,344
    Don't know what happened but you have to copy all that bottom sentence into webbar to get the right page with Labour politicians rankings.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 19,131
    @TheJezziah

    apologies for long post:

    "For example, the last week of March 2018 saw renewed focus on Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn’s past support for a graffiti artist called Mear One, who had painted an allegedly antisemitic mural in Tower Hamlets in 2012 (Corbyn objected to the removal of the mural by Tower Hamlets council). This led to a demonstration held outside Parliament and an open letter to Corbyn from Jewish community leadership bodies in late March. Representatives of those same Jewish organisations (including CST) subsequently met Corbyn and his leadership team in late April 2018. This period saw sustained and prominent media and political debate about the question of antisemitism in the Labour Party, and about the broader issue of antisemitism in British society. CST recorded the highest and second-highest monthly antisemitic incident totals for the year in May and April respectively. Similarly, in August a series of allegations of antisemitic behaviour by Labour Party members and by Jeremy Corbyn himself attracted widespread media coverage. There was also an ongoing dispute during the summer of 2018 over whether the party would adopt the International Holocaust Remembrance Association (IHRA) definition of antisemitism (this continued into early September, when the party decided to adopt the definition). These factors may help to explain why the number of antisemitic incidents reported to CST rose from 130 in July 2018 to 150 incidents in August. "

    24 mentions of "Labour" in the report.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 13,585

    SeanT said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico67 said:

    You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?

    As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!

    But Corbyn supporters don't agree with Starmer's politics.
    Does Starmer have any politics? Genuine question. As a former DPP and the lawyer brought in to lead on Brexit, I, for one, am totally unaware of where he stands within the Party on any other issue.
    Has he ever voiced any opinion on health, education or the economy? Is he on the right, centre or soft left of the Party?
    He's my MP. I have always perceived him as highly careerist, first, and soft left, second. He was a horribly PC DPP. He's also extremely wooden, and bad on TV, I'm not sure why Labourites see him as a saviour, apart from outright desperation.

    I'll say it again, Thornberry is their best choice, on so many levels. She riles people, but the people she riles don't matter. I don't think core Labour voters in the North really care about her flag insult.

    She's competent, she's smart, she's quite articulate, she's a woman (finally, a woman leader of Labour) she's got a decent backstory, she will appeal to centrists and Don't Knows, and the middle classes in the south, she is also just about leftwing enough to satisfy most Corbynites.

    She's a Remainer who would push for, and accept, a very Soft Brexit.

    I think if she were leading Labour they would be 10 points ahead.

    If they were led by Ed Balls they would probably be 15-20 points ahead, but he would never be accepted by the lunatic membership.
    Admit it Sean, you have the hots for her.
    Don't encourage him - he already has.
This discussion has been closed.