Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This week’s podcast focuses on Labour including why an early e

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited March 5 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This week’s podcast focuses on Labour including why an early election is better for the party and how it should respond to TIG

On this week’s podcast, Keiran Pedley is joined by former adviser to Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, Theo Bertram.

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 29,814
    First unlike Fiona
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162
    Scott_P said:
    And if they do, what? They'll be very sad about it?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162
    I look forward to Theo's thoughts on how to respond to the Tiggers, since it seems that what they are doing now has at least stemmed the tide.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162
    Scott_P said:
    I'm confused. It's a witch hunt, but there was a witch because she feels the need to apologise over the thing causing the hunt?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162
    edited March 5
    Amusing quote about Campbell pretending to be Cameron, Bertram pretending to be Clegg, and Brown pretending to be Brown.
    I'm sure Mr Williamson has approached this matter with the care and diligence for which he is known.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 11,406
    Not that much of a surprise.
    He’d previously said he might spend several hundred million to help defeat Trump - and that was the priority. I guess he made a calculation.

  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 776
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I'm confused. It's a witch hunt, but there was a witch because she feels the need to apologise over the thing causing the hunt?
    Yes. She's literally admitting to being a witch. So to speak.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 21,394
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 7,495
    kle4 said:

    Amusing quote about Campbell pretending to be Cameron, Bertram pretending to be Clegg, and Brown pretending to be Brown.

    I'm sure Mr Williamson has approached this matter with the care and diligence for which he is known.
    LOL
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 7,037
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I'm confused. It's a witch hunt, but there was a witch because she feels the need to apologise over the thing causing the hunt?
    I know nothing about the details of this specific case, but I think the logic would be: yes I made a mistake, I've apologised, everyone should now move on, those refusing to move on (and pushing for punishment beyond a telling off) are conducting a witch hunt.

    In some cases that might be fair enough, but I suspect most people disciplined in such situations will think they were hard done by. They're not in the best position to judge and their judgement has already proved faulty.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 21,394
    And here's Boris leaping on a passing bandwagon...

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 21,394
    So Boris in Mail and Javid in Telegraph, both on knife crime.

    Leadership race by proxy.

    Plus, shouldn't Boris be in his home newspaper?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I'm confused. It's a witch hunt, but there was a witch because she feels the need to apologise over the thing causing the hunt?
    I know nothing about the details of this specific case, but I think the logic would be: yes I made a mistake, I've apologised, everyone should now move on, those refusing to move on (and pushing for punishment beyond a telling off) are conducting a witch hunt.

    In some cases that might be fair enough, but I suspect most people disciplined in such situations will think they were hard done by. They're not in the best position to judge and their judgement has already proved faulty.
    Being completely fair while we can and do mock the non apology apologies that abound in politics, if I've learned anything from occasional involvement in complaints matters, it's that getting people to apologise to resolve something can be incredibly difficult, and it can result in a lot of time and effort on very minor things as a result.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 21,394
    Falconer is going to be drowning in complaints from both sides at this rate:

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 13,601
    ' Romania and Bulgaria's presence in the EU has proved particularly unpopular
    Recent YouGov Eurotrack survey data reveals how the borders of the European Union might shift if it were up to the public in key European nations.

    We asked the public in six EU member states (Britain, France, Germany, Sweden, Denmark and Finland) whether it was right or wrong to have allowed each of the current members of the EU to have joined, as well as whether countries that are not currently members should be given permission to join if they wanted to do so.

    Looking first at those countries that joined in the 2004 enlargement or later shows that the admission of Romania in 2007 has proved particularly unpopular. In Germany, France, Denmark, Sweden and Finland the number of people who think that is was a mistake to allow Romania to join outnumber those that don’t by double digits.

    The French and German publics also tend to think Bulgaria should not have been allowed to join, while Danes and Swedes are very evenly split on the wisdom of Bulgarian accession. Finns by contrast tend to be ok with Bulgaria’s membership.

    Only in Britain is there a tendency to support both countries’ EU membership (although in the case of Romania it is still fairly weak).
    '

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/international/articles-reports/2019/03/05/eurotrack-it-was-mistake-admit-romania-and-bulgari
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 29,814
    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I'm confused. It's a witch hunt, but there was a witch because she feels the need to apologise over the thing causing the hunt?
    Yes. She's literally admitting to being a witch. So to speak.

    Fair is foul, and foul is fair!
    Hover through the fog and filthy air!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162

    Falconer is going to be drowning in complaints from both sides at this rate:

    Serious question - who on earth would want a job in the Labour party complaints department at the moment? I hope the wages are damn good, as regardless of political inclination it seems like it would be an awful bloody job.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 10,770
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I'm confused. It's a witch hunt, but there was a witch because she feels the need to apologise over the thing causing the hunt?
    It was pretty obviously a joke, and equally obviously a stupid joke in the current circumstances.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 13,601
    Can you guess which of Britain, France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden and Finland is most hostile to the new EU countries ?

    ' While the entrance of the other 11 countries to have joined since 2004 has been broadly well received, attitudes in France are far more negative across the board, to the extent that French people are evenly split on whether or not it was wrong to admit the Baltic countries, as well as Slovenia and Slovakia. '

    Not quite what Roger reports is it :wink:
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 45,162
    kle4 said:

    Serious question - who on earth would want a job in the Labour party complaints department at the moment? I hope the wages are damn good, as regardless of political inclination it seems like it would be an awful bloody job.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 21,394
    Floater said:
    iirc it is not an offence to make such a recording (although not very chummy, but frankly who can blame her).

    Making it public might be another issue though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I'm confused. It's a witch hunt, but there was a witch because she feels the need to apologise over the thing causing the hunt?
    It was pretty obviously a joke, and equally obviously a stupid joke in the current circumstances.
    I wasn't speaking to the incident, I merely found the description of events confusing
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 17,667
    What the fuck is HMF going to do about knife crime?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,586
    He did not run as he realised he had no chance in the Democratic primaries, he might fund a Kasich-Hickenlooper centrist third party bid if it ends up Trump v Sanders or Warren in the general election
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 29,814

    Can you guess which of Britain, France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden and Finland is most hostile to the new EU countries ?

    ' While the entrance of the other 11 countries to have joined since 2004 has been broadly well received, attitudes in France are far more negative across the board, to the extent that French people are evenly split on whether or not it was wrong to admit the Baltic countries, as well as Slovenia and Slovakia. '

    Not quite what Roger reports is it :wink:

    No, you don't understand! Only we Brits can be guilty of xenophobia, you see!
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 10,770
    Gunboats up the Thames and the Mersey?

    One problem for the government in that Sun link and in Sky News and many other outlets is that after the Prime Minister's crass intervention, everyone and their mum is talking about the 20,000 police officers cut by Theresa May.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162
    Scott_P said:
    I don't think it will work. Mock them though we might, ERGers know that, or other outcomes, are possible if they don't get the deal through. They still said no before, and have made it difficult for themselves to say yes given what they demand as the price.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 13,601
    And what are the views of Turkey joining the EU ?

    Britain -30
    Sweden -51
    Denmark -59
    Finland -61
    France -62
    Germany -65
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 13,576
    Scott_P said:
    Does no-one in Labour understand how to deal with whistleblowers? Perhaps I should send them my card? Or they could get free advice from Public Concern at Work?

    Labour are really providing us all with a masterclass in How Not to Deal With a Problem, with a special section on How To Make It Very Much Worse.

    Charlie Falconer has now the most leverage he will ever have over Labour. He should insist on having total control over the complaints and disciplinary process, with complete independent access to all servers, including those of all the email accounts used by Labour staffers and advisers, written agreement by all of them that they will provide their personal computers and phones and access to all social media accounts so that he can review all emails about, relating to or on Labour Party business, agreement that all will submit to taped interviews, full co-operation, total oversight of the disciplinary process, all necessary staff to assist him etc etc.

    He has a very well paid role with a major US law firm. The last thing he needs is for his well-regarded legal reputation to be ruined a la Chakrabati by him agreeing to put his name in front of a half-arsed and insincere attempt to dig Labour out of its mess.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 10,770
    edited March 5
    deleted
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 13,576

    Floater said:
    iirc it is not an offence to make such a recording (although not very chummy, but frankly who can blame her).

    Making it public might be another issue though.
    Why should she trust Corbyn?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 776
    kle4 said:

    Falconer is going to be drowning in complaints from both sides at this rate:

    Serious question - who on earth would want a job in the Labour party complaints department at the moment? I hope the wages are damn good, as regardless of political inclination it seems like it would be an awful bloody job.
    Front row seats to a genuine political meltdown? As long as you don't have skin in the game (and can get another job after) it sounds absolutely fantastic.

    Also probably very harrowing. Actually, I think all jobs dealing with complaints are probably pretty unpleasant all the time, given the garbage they have to wade through.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162
    Cannot say I am hugely persuaded despite Theo Bertram's thinking, as many do, that Corbyn will struggle to get as many to come back and boost the Lab score in a GE, because of his relative freshness in 2017. I think the same reasoning applies as last time, since while he had plenty of voters who backed him for positive reasons, there were also plenty who did so out of hatred of the Tories and lack of alternatives. That's still true.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 21,394
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    Does no-one in Labour understand how to deal with whistleblowers? Perhaps I should send them my card? Or they could get free advice from Public Concern at Work?

    Labour are really providing us all with a masterclass in How Not to Deal With a Problem, with a special section on How To Make It Very Much Worse.

    Charlie Falconer has now the most leverage he will ever have over Labour. He should insist on having total control over the complaints and disciplinary process, with complete independent access to all servers, including those of all the email accounts used by Labour staffers and advisers, written agreement by all of them that they will provide their personal computers and phones and access to all social media accounts so that he can review all emails about, relating to or on Labour Party business, agreement that all will submit to taped interviews, full co-operation, total oversight of the disciplinary process, all necessary staff to assist him etc etc.

    He has a very well paid role with a major US law firm. The last thing he needs is for his well-regarded legal reputation to be ruined a la Chakrabati by him agreeing to put his name in front of a half-arsed and insincere attempt to dig Labour out of its mess.
    Which is why I question what on earth he is doing getting involved in this cesspit.

    He will need a humungous team to go through all that material.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162
    edited March 5
    Cyclefree said:

    Floater said:
    iirc it is not an offence to make such a recording (although not very chummy, but frankly who can blame her).

    Making it public might be another issue though.
    Why should she trust Corbyn?
    He's the man she wants to make Prime Minister, she should trust him a little. By definition she trusts that he will be a better Prime Minister than any Tory.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 13,601
    Obviously this is bollox but like all of Williamson's posturings its bollox designed to impress Conservative members.

    But does it actually work ?

    Are Conservative members actually impressed by what Williamson says ?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 20,092
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I don't think it will work. Mock them though we might, ERGers know that, or other outcomes, are possible if they don't get the deal through. They still said no before, and have made it difficult for themselves to say yes given what they demand as the price.
    Tory and Labour to join forces to stay in the EU - aye very good - who will run the country after that ?
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 9,239
    Hurrah
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,094
    Ohhh Johnny Bairstow, you didn't need to do that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162
    edited March 5
    TGOHF said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I don't think it will work. Mock them though we might, ERGers know that, or other outcomes, are possible if they don't get the deal through. They still said no before, and have made it difficult for themselves to say yes given what they demand as the price.
    Tory and Labour to join forces to stay in the EU - aye very good - who will run the country after that ?
    I wish I knew. I don't think MPs care. That's a problem they'll face after they secure the first goal.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 27,688
    Scott_P said:
    Given that May has defined not being able to do our own trade deals as not respecting the referendum, she can't make that threat without legitimising a second referendum.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 13,576
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Floater said:
    iirc it is not an offence to make such a recording (although not very chummy, but frankly who can blame her).

    Making it public might be another issue though.
    Why should she trust Corbyn?
    He's the man she wants to make Prime Minister, she should trust him a little.
    She doesn't want him to be PM. She made that perfectly clear last year when she was put under investigation. She said in a Radio 4 interview that people like him and Militant Tendency were those she had been fighting to get out of the party for years. This is the dilemma that those Labour MPs who want us to vote Labour but don't want us to vote for the Labour leader to be PM have - and a bloody fine mess they're making of it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 17,667

    deleted

    In answer to your question: so what if the Jews leave because Labour will win the seats anyway, I was going to respond that the party would be purer thereafter but you seem to have had second thoughts about your comment.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 11,406
    HYUFD said:

    He did not run as he realised he had no chance in the Democratic primaries, he might fund a Kasich-Hickenlooper centrist third party bid if it ends up Trump v Sanders or Warren in the general election
    Don’t be ridiculous.

    His first priority, about which he is very clear, is to defeat Trump. He’s not going to run a spoiler effort, however unkeen he might be on Bernie.

    Have you even read his oped ?
    At the heart of Beyond Carbon is the conviction that, as the science has made clear, every year matters. The idea of a Green New Deal — first suggested by the columnist Tom Friedman more than a decade ago — stands no chance of passage in the Senate over the next two years. But Mother Nature does not wait on our political calendar, and neither can we...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 21,394

    Obviously this is bollox but like all of Williamson's posturings its bollox designed to impress Conservative members.

    But does it actually work ?

    Are Conservative members actually impressed by what Williamson says ?
    Is this the worst Cabinet since the 19th century?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 13,576
    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Falconer is going to be drowning in complaints from both sides at this rate:

    Serious question - who on earth would want a job in the Labour party complaints department at the moment? I hope the wages are damn good, as regardless of political inclination it seems like it would be an awful bloody job.
    Front row seats to a genuine political meltdown? As long as you don't have skin in the game (and can get another job after) it sounds absolutely fantastic.

    Also probably very harrowing. Actually, I think all jobs dealing with complaints are probably pretty unpleasant all the time, given the garbage they have to wade through.

    Oi - that's 34 years of my working life you've just trashed!!

    But we're made of tough stuff. - :)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 17,667

    Obviously this is bollox but like all of Williamson's posturings its bollox designed to impress Conservative members.

    But does it actually work ?

    Are Conservative members actually impressed by what Williamson says ?
    No.

    To add: they think he is a jumped up twat. Or at least sensible ones do.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 13,601
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I don't think it will work. Mock them though we might, ERGers know that, or other outcomes, are possible if they don't get the deal through. They still said no before, and have made it difficult for themselves to say yes given what they demand as the price.
    The ERG don't care about the details of any deal, they just want to oppose it.

    Some of them would likely love for a CU agreement to be passed as it would stop the economy being trashed for which they might get the blame but would allow them even more to posture about.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 20,092
    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I don't think it will work. Mock them though we might, ERGers know that, or other outcomes, are possible if they don't get the deal through. They still said no before, and have made it difficult for themselves to say yes given what they demand as the price.
    Tory and Labour to join forces to stay in the EU - aye very good - who will run the country after that ?
    I wish I knew. I don't think MPs care. That's a problem they'll face after they secure the first goal.
    There would have to be a GE - and definitely a new Con leader.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 10,770
    TOPPING said:

    deleted

    In answer to your question: so what if the Jews leave because Labour will win the seats anyway, I was going to respond that the party would be purer thereafter but you seem to have had second thoughts about your comment.
    Because I realised the point I was making -- that they would NOT leave -- needed far more expansion and explanation than I can give at this hour.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 25,111
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 4,367

    Scott_P said:
    Given that May has defined not being able to do our own trade deals as not respecting the referendum, she can't make that threat without legitimising a second referendum.
    Which begs the question. If doing trade deals was so important, pray why did she appoint Liam Fox?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 23,688
    TOPPING said:

    Obviously this is bollox but like all of Williamson's posturings its bollox designed to impress Conservative members.

    But does it actually work ?

    Are Conservative members actually impressed by what Williamson says ?
    No.

    To add: they think he is a jumped up twat. Or at least sensible ones do.
    I wouldn't express it that way but there is no doubt he is a pathetic minister along with Grayling and others

    Just think, a half decent labour party would be out of sight
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162
    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Floater said:
    iirc it is not an offence to make such a recording (although not very chummy, but frankly who can blame her).

    Making it public might be another issue though.
    Why should she trust Corbyn?
    He's the man she wants to make Prime Minister, she should trust him a little.
    She doesn't want him to be PM. She made that perfectly clear last year when she was put under investigation. She said in a Radio 4 interview that people like him and Militant Tendency were those she had been fighting to get out of the party for years. This is the dilemma that those Labour MPs who want us to vote Labour but don't want us to vote for the Labour leader to be PM have - and a bloody fine mess they're making of it.
    Forgive me, and while I try not to make light of what an emotional battle it must be to see such a struggle at the heart of a party she no doubt cares greatly about, but I find her words as you report there rather hollow. He is the leader, and he's going nowhere, if he wins a GE she will back him. Not on many things, I am sure. He'd face plenty of rebellions no doubt. But does she think the benefit of a Labour government is so great that even with him as leader it must be chosen? If the answer us yes, we still need a Labour government, then she does still want him as PM. There is not, currently, some option to ask for a Labour government but if Corbyn is leader no thanks.

    Of course she can set her conscience at ease that she will make her position very clear to her constituency electorate and act accordingly, but I am not much moved by this 'I don't want him to PM, I just tell people to vote Labour...which will make him PM' line, and that's true of if any Tory tries a similar line.

    Anyone can say they don't want him as PM, bottom line is would would her actions be? If it is a matter of having such a deep and loyal connection to the party, then I think we know the answer.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 21,394

    TOPPING said:

    Obviously this is bollox but like all of Williamson's posturings its bollox designed to impress Conservative members.

    But does it actually work ?

    Are Conservative members actually impressed by what Williamson says ?
    No.

    To add: they think he is a jumped up twat. Or at least sensible ones do.
    I wouldn't express it that way but there is no doubt he is a pathetic minister along with Grayling and others

    Just think, a half decent labour party would be out of sight
    Yep. May has been a lucky General in one sense: the opposition is in an even worse mess.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162
    TGOHF said:
    Even if that is true, I don't think 'it will hurt them more than us' is going to work at this stage. Heck, it hasn't worked on us yet.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 21,394
    It is a mystery why LibDems aren't starting to show some kind of up-tick with the state of the two main parties.

    Surely the Coalition hangover is starting to wear off?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 13,576

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    Does no-one in Labour understand how to deal with whistleblowers? Perhaps I should send them my card? Or they could get free advice from Public Concern at Work?

    Labour are really providing us all with a masterclass in How Not to Deal With a Problem, with a special section on How To Make It Very Much Worse.

    Charlie Falconer has now the most leverage he will ever have over Labour. He should insist on having total control over the complaints and disciplinary process, with complete independent access to all servers, including those of all the email accounts used by Labour staffers and advisers, written agreement by all of them that they will provide their personal computers and phones and access to all social media accounts so that he can review all emails about, relating to or on Labour Party business, agreement that all will submit to taped interviews, full co-operation, total oversight of the disciplinary process, all necessary staff to assist him etc etc.

    He has a very well paid role with a major US law firm. The last thing he needs is for his well-regarded legal reputation to be ruined a la Chakrabati by him agreeing to put his name in front of a half-arsed and insincere attempt to dig Labour out of its mess.
    Which is why I question what on earth he is doing getting involved in this cesspit.

    He will need a humungous team to go through all that material.
    He will need cast iron assurances that the Labour leadership will not try and undermine him. If you can't trust your client you can't do a good job no matter how humungous your team.

    I wouldn't trust Corbyn or Milne or any of Corbyn's close advisors as far as I could throw them.

    Only complete control over the entire process would do - with a final report to the entire Parliamentary party.

    But that would be for Labour to surrender control over this to someone outside the Leader's team. Only organisations that are failing total melt-down or are forced to do this by outside regulators do this.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 776
    Cyclefree said:

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Falconer is going to be drowning in complaints from both sides at this rate:

    Serious question - who on earth would want a job in the Labour party complaints department at the moment? I hope the wages are damn good, as regardless of political inclination it seems like it would be an awful bloody job.
    Front row seats to a genuine political meltdown? As long as you don't have skin in the game (and can get another job after) it sounds absolutely fantastic.

    Also probably very harrowing. Actually, I think all jobs dealing with complaints are probably pretty unpleasant all the time, given the garbage they have to wade through.

    Oi - that's 34 years of my working life you've just trashed!!

    But we're made of tough stuff. - :)
    Oh, sorry. I was thinking of the armies of poor souls Facebook and the like have recruited to wade through endless videos and decide whether they constitute abuse etc. Based on your previous posts I understand you deal with rather more complex but less disturbing issues, which I wouldn't even necessarily recognise as being part of the same industry. I would guess that the Labour team are somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, usually closer to your end but right now much closer than they ought to ever get to the other.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 23,047
    WTF

    Is there nothing the douce won’t say for a headline?

    Does he realise he’s suggesting imposing martial law?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 11,406

    It is a mystery why LibDems aren't starting to show some kind of up-tick with the state of the two main parties.

    Surely the Coalition hangover is starting to wear off?

    Well they might have some time ago fucked their reputation over student loans, but both major parties are currently engaged in comprehensively fucking their reputations right across the board.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162

    It is a mystery why LibDems aren't starting to show some kind of up-tick with the state of the two main parties.

    Surely the Coalition hangover is starting to wear off?

    Apparently not. And given the visceral reactions May and Corbyn provoke, anything the LDs say or do that seems to be closer to one or the other will see them accused of kowtowing to the Tories again, or just being Labour lite.

    I am looking forward to seeing a list of Tigger policies to see what is so different from the LDs, to see if there is any policy reason they could not bring themselves to join the existing referendum backing party, or if it really was just down to branding.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 13,601
    TOPPING said:

    Obviously this is bollox but like all of Williamson's posturings its bollox designed to impress Conservative members.

    But does it actually work ?

    Are Conservative members actually impressed by what Williamson says ?
    No.

    To add: they think he is a jumped up twat. Or at least sensible ones do.
    A minority view then :wink:

    BTW Toppo, do you have any updates on the posh cars outside terraced houses research ?

    I'm hoping you've been looking around the local streets and can tell us if there are any new Range Rovers parked in Oil Drum Lane.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 776
    TOPPING said:

    Obviously this is bollox but like all of Williamson's posturings its bollox designed to impress Conservative members.

    But does it actually work ?

    Are Conservative members actually impressed by what Williamson says ?
    No.

    To add: they think he is a jumped up twat. Or at least sensible ones do.
    I would also like to state that I find Gavin Williamson to be deeply unimpressive.

    I cannot comment as to how sensible I am.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 25,111

    Wasn't someone claiming yesterday that the London property market was a disaster ?

    ' London’s skyline continues to head upwards, with a record 76 tall buildings due to be completed this year, a three-fold increase from 2018.

    The number of tall towers – more than 20 storeys high – planned or under construction has also hit a new record of 541, up from 510 in 2017, according to the latest research from the industry forum New London Architecture (NLA). '

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/05/tall-buildings-london-skyline-2019

    Every year, in London, 6-8,000 apartments are sold for more than £1m. (Including resale.)

    There are between 42,000 and 48,000 £1m+ apartments currently under construction in London. If we assume that they will all come on stream between now and the end of 2020, that's an insane amount of new supply.

    If you want to buy a super cool apartment in Central London, I would reckon December 2019 to Feb 2020 would be the best time. There will be some real bargains.

    (And you probably don't want to work in the high end London residential construction market from about ummm... mid 2020.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162
    Endillion said:

    TOPPING said:

    Obviously this is bollox but like all of Williamson's posturings its bollox designed to impress Conservative members.

    But does it actually work ?

    Are Conservative members actually impressed by what Williamson says ?
    No.

    To add: they think he is a jumped up twat. Or at least sensible ones do.
    I would also like to state that I find Gavin Williamson to be deeply unimpressive.

    I cannot comment as to how sensible I am.
    Well you've got sense on at least that one issue!
  • Charles said:

    WTF

    Is there nothing the douce won’t say for a headline?

    Does he realise he’s suggesting imposing martial law?
    He's thicker than a whale omelette. Cretin.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 3,882
    edited March 5
    Worst Cabinet Ministers - Updated Ranking!

    1. Chris Grayling
    2. Gavin Williamson
    3. Liam Fox
    4. Theresa May
    5. Liz Truss
    6. Penny Mordaunt
    7. Karen Bradley
    8. Sajid Javid
    9. Philip Hammond
    10. Jeremy Hunt

    Michael Gove and - bizarrely - Andrea Leadsom - appear to be the only competent Brexit Ministers.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 14,265
    Baroness Warsi dishing the dirt on the Tories on Newsnight tonight....

    #TiggeerAlert :
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162
    LOL - Bertram talking about how some Lab MPs used to think the party had people working on attack lines against the LDS, and they'd pretend that they were but really they just ignored them as it was all about the Tories.

    And so the approach to the Tiggers is not to attack them directly, they don't need to.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,432

    Obviously this is bollox but like all of Williamson's posturings its bollox designed to impress Conservative members.

    But does it actually work ?

    Are Conservative members actually impressed by what Williamson says ?
    I put the likes of Williamson in the same bracket as Brendan O’Neill and George Galloway - their deranged outpourings are clearly designed for a specific audience, but there is very scant evidence that even their intended audience pays much attention.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,094

    Charles said:

    WTF

    Is there nothing the douce won’t say for a headline?

    Does he realise he’s suggesting imposing martial law?
    He's thicker than a whale omelette. Cretin.
    So dense, light bends around him.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,162
    Scott_P said:
    I'd say that boded ill, but frankly are these media conferences ever more than vapid nonsense or wholly negative anyway? I can do without hearing that there were constructive talks but it is still difficult with a lot to do blah blah blah.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 25,111
    TGOHF said:
    I think this is both true and not true.

    In the event of No Deal Brexit, I would estimate the UK economy would take a £30-40bn hit. And I'd reckon the EU would be worse off, with an impact of £50-60bn.

    So, the EU takes a hit 40-50% more than we do.

    But, it's also amortized over more people. In percentage terms, Ireland (by a fair margin) will be most impacted, we'll be second, and then the percentage impact on Germany, France etc will be relatively small.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 14,265
    Scott_P said:
    Four hours for dinner? How many courses would that be? :D
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 14,368
    TOPPING said:

    Obviously this is bollox but like all of Williamson's posturings its bollox designed to impress Conservative members.

    But does it actually work ?

    Are Conservative members actually impressed by what Williamson says ?
    No.

    To add: they think he is a jumped up twat. Or at least sensible ones do.
    You gotta % number on those sensible ones?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,586
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    He did not run as he realised he had no chance in the Democratic primaries, he might fund a Kasich-Hickenlooper centrist third party bid if it ends up Trump v Sanders or Warren in the general election
    Don’t be ridiculous.

    His first priority, about which he is very clear, is to defeat Trump. He’s not going to run a spoiler effort, however unkeen he might be on Bernie.

    Have you even read his oped ?
    At the heart of Beyond Carbon is the conviction that, as the science has made clear, every year matters. The idea of a Green New Deal — first suggested by the columnist Tom Friedman more than a decade ago — stands no chance of passage in the Senate over the next two years. But Mother Nature does not wait on our political calendar, and neither can we...
    No, Bloomberg hates Sanders as much as he hates Trump as was clear in 2016.


    'Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has branded Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders demagogues'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3568334/Those-promise-free-lunch-eat-breakfast-Bloomberg-brands-Trump-Sanders-demagogues-calls-White-House.html
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 10,770

    Obviously this is bollox but like all of Williamson's posturings its bollox designed to impress Conservative members.

    But does it actually work ?

    Are Conservative members actually impressed by what Williamson says ?
    Is this the worst Cabinet since the 19th century?
    On behalf of the 19th Century ... Earl Grey's Cabinet contained four future prime ministers which is probably some sort of record, passed the Great Reform Act, restricted child labour and abolished slavery. We won't be drinking Mrs May tea a hundred years from now.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 13,576
    edited March 5
    Endillion said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Falconer is going to be drowning in complaints from both sides at this rate:

    Serious question - who on earth would want a job in the Labour party complaints department at the moment? I hope the wages are damn good, as regardless of political inclination it seems like it would be an awful bloody job.
    Front row seats to a genuine political meltdown? As long as you don't have skin in the game (and can get another job after) it sounds absolutely fantastic.

    Also probably very harrowing. Actually, I think all jobs dealing with complaints are probably pretty unpleasant all the time, given the garbage they have to wade through.

    Oi - that's 34 years of my working life you've just trashed!!

    But we're made of tough stuff. - :)
    Oh, sorry. I was thinking of the armies of poor souls Facebook and the like have recruited to wade through endless videos and decide whether they constitute abuse etc. Based on your previous posts I understand you deal with rather more complex but less disturbing issues, which I wouldn't even necessarily recognise as being part of the same industry. I would guess that the Labour team are somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, usually closer to your end but right now much closer than they ought to ever get to the other.
    I have read some pretty disturbing stuff in my time. Suspected child pornography was the worst. Not routine, thank God. But not as bad as what Facebook moderators have to read, I imagine, day in, day out.

    Whatever the subject matter, you need a hide of steel, a bloody good sense of humour and a tremendous team around you. The Labour complaints team sounds utterly dysfunctional, judging by the leaks. I feel sorry for them. Whatever their failings no-one at the top has their back and they will end up being blamed. Sauve qui peut.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,094
    edited March 5
    Cyclefree said:

    Endillion said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Falconer is going to be drowning in complaints from both sides at this rate:

    Serious question - who on earth would want a job in the Labour party complaints department at the moment? I hope the wages are damn good, as regardless of political inclination it seems like it would be an awful bloody job.
    Front row seats to a genuine political meltdown? As long as you don't have skin in the game (and can get another job after) it sounds absolutely fantastic.

    Also probably very harrowing. Actually, I think all jobs dealing with complaints are probably pretty unpleasant all the time, given the garbage they have to wade through.

    Oi - that's 34 years of my working life you've just trashed!!

    But we're made of tough stuff. - :)
    Oh, sorry. I was thinking of the armies of poor souls Facebook and the like have recruited to wade through endless videos and decide whether they constitute abuse etc. Based on your previous posts I understand you deal with rather more complex but less disturbing issues, which I wouldn't even necessarily recognise as being part of the same industry. I would guess that the Labour team are somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, usually closer to your end but right now much closer than they ought to ever get to the other.
    I have read some pretty disturbing stuff in my time. Suspected child pornography was the worse. But not as bad as what Facebook moderators have to read, I imagine, day in, day out.

    Whatever the subject matter, you need a hide of steel, a bloody good sense of humour and a tremendous team around you. The Labour complaints team sounds utterly dysfunctional, judging by the leaks. I feel sorry for them. Whatever their failings no-one at the top has their back and they will end up being blamed. Sauve qui peut.
    Facebook out-source the job, and it sounds a horrific job in a shit work environment.

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/25/18229714/cognizant-facebook-content-moderator-interviews-trauma-working-conditions-arizona
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,586
    Scott_P said:
    Given even the Met Commissioner has not ruled out army assistance I fail to see the problem, knife crime is out of control in London and much of the country as the weekend's events attest
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 20,092
    rcs1000 said:

    TGOHF said:
    I think this is both true and not true.

    In the event of No Deal Brexit, I would estimate the UK economy would take a £30-40bn hit. And I'd reckon the EU would be worse off, with an impact of £50-60bn.

    So, the EU takes a hit 40-50% more than we do.

    But, it's also amortized over more people. In percentage terms, Ireland (by a fair margin) will be most impacted, we'll be second, and then the percentage impact on Germany, France etc will be relatively small.
    Will depend how proactive the Uk is. Ed Conway has interesting story about tariffs being scrapped for a year unilaterally by the Uk. A few choice tax cuts will be required domestically too. The EU can’t be as nimble - individual govts might be.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 25,111

    And what are the views of Turkey joining the EU ?

    Britain -30
    Sweden -51
    Denmark -59
    Finland -61
    France -62
    Germany -65

    Cyprus must surely be -99, and Greece can't be less than -85%.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 11,406
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Four hours for dinner? How many courses would that be? :D
    Perhaps they just couldn’t agree on the starters ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 29,814
    rcs1000 said:

    And what are the views of Turkey joining the EU ?

    Britain -30
    Sweden -51
    Denmark -59
    Finland -61
    France -62
    Germany -65

    Cyprus must surely be -99, and Greece can't be less than -85%.

    Unoccupied Cyprus :)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 25,111
    TGOHF said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TGOHF said:
    I think this is both true and not true.

    In the event of No Deal Brexit, I would estimate the UK economy would take a £30-40bn hit. And I'd reckon the EU would be worse off, with an impact of £50-60bn.

    So, the EU takes a hit 40-50% more than we do.

    But, it's also amortized over more people. In percentage terms, Ireland (by a fair margin) will be most impacted, we'll be second, and then the percentage impact on Germany, France etc will be relatively small.
    Will depend how proactive the Uk is. Ed Conway has interesting story about tariffs being scrapped for a year unilaterally by the Uk. A few choice tax cuts will be required domestically too. The EU can’t be as nimble - individual govts might be.
    We'll see.

    The UK government can't undo the damage to businesses of dropping out of the EU rules on double taxation and holding taxes, for example.
This discussion has been closed.