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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » And so MPs move on to vote against leaving the EU with no deal

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    kle4 said:

    Edward Mayes

    @eljmayes
    ·
    58s


    Sarah Newton has resigned from the Cabinet BBC News reports.

    Who? Didn't know she existed/was in the Cabinet.
    Must be a junior minister. Wiki's already put an end date for her post.
    Junior Minister is not Cabinet though surely?
    Not truly, but it doesn't sound as good in a breaking news flash.

    All this is clearly confusing how people should write about it - the wiki summary makes it look like the government wanted to reject no deal and she wanted no deal.(yes it was originally the government's motion but it was no longer after amendment)

    In March 2019, she resigned from this role to enable her to vote against the Government's motion to reject no-deal Brexit.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage apparently saying the WA is not just worse, but 'far worse' than being members of the EU. He just loves being in the EU doesn't he?

    Here's a list of people who have gone down in my estimation through this process:
    Nigel Farage
    JRM
    People who don't understand the difference between the WA and the end state
    Labour MPs from Leave constituencies
    People who didn't read the section of the WA agreement regarding the Northern Irish border

    People who have gone up:
    Stephen Lloyd
    Why have Farage and JRM gone down? Aren't they just doing what you'd expect them to do?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    I quite like the Weathersoon's pubs. Sure, they're a bit too well lit, but the food and the beer are decent, and the prices (usually thanks to Eastern European immigration...) low.

    But Tim is a bit of an arse.

    I remember he railing against the EU, on the basis that if we left, then we could have free trade, just like the rest of the world did*. I would have loved to have quizzed him on the US-China free trade agreement. Or the Japan-Canada one. Or the Australia-Brazil one.

    He's clearly not an idiot. But he's also clearly a complete bulshitter, who has an idea and then assumes the world will fit in with his preconceptions.

    * He could have said "we could follow the examples of Switzerland, South Korea and Singapore to forge new trade agreements", but I think he actually believed that outside the EU, all the other countries traded without tariffs.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    AndyJS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage apparently saying the WA is not just worse, but 'far worse' than being members of the EU. He just loves being in the EU doesn't he?

    Here's a list of people who have gone down in my estimation through this process:
    Nigel Farage
    JRM
    People who don't understand the difference between the WA and the end state
    Labour MPs from Leave constituencies
    People who didn't read the section of the WA agreement regarding the Northern Irish border

    People who have gone up:
    Stephen Lloyd
    Why have Farage and JRM gone down? Aren't they just doing what you'd expect them to do?
    My assumption - which I now realise was incorrect - was that they wanted us to leave the EU.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Time for a long delay and a new PM. Bye bye May, you were crap and won't be missed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,733

    Floater said:

    May fecks up yet again

    Why is she still PM?
    In fairness, change the gender and change 'PM' to 'LOTO' and we ask much the same question about Corbyn.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    May fecks up yet again

    Why is she still PM?

    GE2019
    She is crap for sure

    But better than Labour

    Still, you might get your wish

    You can't say you were not warned.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,008

    Penny seems to be dropping for a few of the ERG.

    I said only yesterday that the moronic thickos would only work this out 72 hours too late.

    They’ve surpassed themselves.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,341
    The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    May just voted No Deal

    Frying Pan or the fire BREXIT is off

    #CorbynsCustomsUnion or GE2019
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage apparently saying the WA is not just worse, but 'far worse' than being members of the EU. He just loves being in the EU doesn't he?

    Here's a list of people who have gone down in my estimation through this process:
    Nigel Farage
    JRM
    People who don't understand the difference between the WA and the end state
    Labour MPs from Leave constituencies
    People who didn't read the section of the WA agreement regarding the Northern Irish border

    People who have gone up:
    Stephen Lloyd
    I assume you don't include the three Labour MPs who voted for May's deal?
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    algarkirk said:

    The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.

    agree 100%
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,733

    Penny seems to be dropping for a few of the ERG.

    I said only yesterday that the moronic thickos would only work this out 72 hours too late.

    They’ve surpassed themselves.
    Actually it's what they've not passed that's the problem.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    algarkirk said:

    The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.

    Why would it? Brexiteers would say, "You can't blackmail us - just revoke Article 50."
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    .@JeremyCorbyn now has more authority than @Theresa_May and is the PM-in-waiting.

    The anti-semite Corbyn will NEVER have any authority.
    Amen
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Floater said:

    May fecks up yet again

    Why is she still PM?

    No one wants the job. And while I don't believe the polls, you cannot be sure that a GE would give you the result you want.

    Floater said:

    off topic - I know there are big issues at play tonght but....

    WTF

    https://order-order.com/2019/03/13/lord-steel-admits-cyril-smith-confessed/

    I haven't seen that, but if it's true, then Steele should be held to account.
    The transcript seems to be that it was none of his business because it happened before he was involved.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    TGOHF said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage apparently saying the WA is not just worse, but 'far worse' than being members of the EU. He just loves being in the EU doesn't he?

    MEP salary!
    Farage will be loving this, it gives him a reason to get up in the morning. His Brexit party could do well. Say what you like about him, and there is a lot to say, but that boy knows his audience.
    40+%
    Why would I vote for someone who's done more to ensure Britain remains in the EU than Kenneth Clarke?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695

    .@JeremyCorbyn now has more authority than @Theresa_May and is the PM-in-waiting.

    The anti-semite Corbyn will NEVER have any authority.
    Even when he's driving up the Mall as the Queens 14th Prime Minister?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    edited March 2019
    Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,543
    edited March 2019
    What is the government's objection to the Spelman No No Deal motion when they are offering a free vote on the other motion sayng the same thing?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    rcs1000 said:

    TGOHF said:

    kle4 said:

    Farage apparently saying the WA is not just worse, but 'far worse' than being members of the EU. He just loves being in the EU doesn't he?

    MEP salary!
    Farage will be loving this, it gives him a reason to get up in the morning. His Brexit party could do well. Say what you like about him, and there is a lot to say, but that boy knows his audience.
    40+%
    Why would I vote for someone who's done more to ensure Britain remains in the EU than Kenneth Clarke?
    Everyone who voted for Brexit in 2016 did more to propel us towards closer integration with the EU than Ken Clarke ever did.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    algarkirk said:

    The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.

    No no - now we need to stay in - imagine the reaction when our EU bill goes up and the remainers have to run the country. Lol.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Penny seems to be dropping for a few of the ERG.

    I said only yesterday that the moronic thickos would only work this out 72 hours too late.

    They’ve surpassed themselves.
    Just wait until they want MV3 and Bercow says no!
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    rcs1000 said:

    I quite like the Weathersoon's pubs. Sure, they're a bit too well lit, but the food and the beer are decent, and the prices (usually thanks to Eastern European immigration...) low.

    But Tim is a bit of an arse.

    I remember he railing against the EU, on the basis that if we left, then we could have free trade, just like the rest of the world did*. I would have loved to have quizzed him on the US-China free trade agreement. Or the Japan-Canada one. Or the Australia-Brazil one.

    He's clearly not an idiot. But he's also clearly a complete bulshitter, who has an idea and then assumes the world will fit in with his preconceptions.

    * He could have said "we could follow the examples of Switzerland, South Korea and Singapore to forge new trade agreements", but I think he actually believed that outside the EU, all the other countries traded without tariffs.

    Equally given that he is benefiting from migration (see your first paragraph) is he bright enough to see that he may be shooting himself in the foot...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Adam Boulton. Only option for ERG is to back TM deal

    Yes, add 5-7 Labour waverers and we're home. But it's too late now.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Penny seems to be dropping for a few of the ERG.

    I said only yesterday that the moronic thickos would only work this out 72 hours too late.

    They’ve surpassed themselves.
    75 of them needed to work this out. While some seem to have worked it out have all the people required worked it out yet?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    FF43 said:

    What is the government's objection to the Spelman No No Deal motion when they are offering a free vote on the other motion during the same thing?

    The only explanation is that they intended to back it and then subsequently hide behind the weasel wording of its second part. When their ruse was spotted and removed (by just four votes) whips panicked and tried to get the whole thing voted down.

    So no surprise that MPs are now deeply unhappy and raising their concerns as points of order.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,008
    Jonathan said:

    May, she is an utter disaster.

    You know what?

    I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.

    She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.

    She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    IanB2 said:

    Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament

    How has it done that? Parliament has kept this government in power and parliament has not yet said what it does want, only what it doesn't want.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited March 2019
    IanB2 said:

    My money is on another weasel worded motion from government tomorrow that members will have to try and amend again.

    Edit/Speaker now reading it out.

    One off extension to 30th June

    Notes that EU likely to require purpose and any longer extension requires the EU elections

    They could have made it 26th June just to make it all nice and circular! :D
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I quite like the Weathersoon's pubs. Sure, they're a bit too well lit, but the food and the beer are decent, and the prices (usually thanks to Eastern European immigration...) low.

    But Tim is a bit of an arse.

    I remember he railing against the EU, on the basis that if we left, then we could have free trade, just like the rest of the world did*. I would have loved to have quizzed him on the US-China free trade agreement. Or the Japan-Canada one. Or the Australia-Brazil one.

    He's clearly not an idiot. But he's also clearly a complete bulshitter, who has an idea and then assumes the world will fit in with his preconceptions.

    * He could have said "we could follow the examples of Switzerland, South Korea and Singapore to forge new trade agreements", but I think he actually believed that outside the EU, all the other countries traded without tariffs.

    Equally given that he is benefiting from migration (see your first paragraph) is he bright enough to see that he may be shooting himself in the foot...
    I'm not sure, but I can't recall Martin being that keen on ending FoM.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    The credible deal is the one Labour took to Brussels last month which got the seal of approval from the EU negotiators as a positive basis for a soft Brexit. They have had a credible deal all along.

    Spreadshit Phil 13.3.19 appears to be advising TM to get on with speaking to Jezza
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    IanB2 said:

    Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament

    She's probably on her 5th gin and tonic...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    algarkirk said:

    The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.

    Unfortunately I fear that while the EU is more prepared for us than no deal, they won't want to risk that we still don't pass the deal in those circumstances and despite comments will let us extend to faff about.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    ydoethur said:

    Adam Boulton. Only option for ERG is to back TM deal

    That horse has not only bolted, the stable door and most of the wall went with him.

    They are utter fools.
    Though the MV2 would still have fell even if every single ERG member had backed it.
    While that's true, if you were a Labour MP in a Leave seat, why waste political capital backing the deal if it's going to lose by 100+ votes?

    It needed to be close enough that people could think they were doing the right thing for the country by backing it or abstaining.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    Mr 1138,

    "Even when he's driving up the Mall as the Queens 14th Prime Minister?"

    Nope, the great and the good will refuse to accept it. Once you negate a democratic election, all bets are off.
  • IanB2 said:

    My money is on another weasel worded motion from government tomorrow that members will have to try and amend again.

    Edit/Speaker now reading it out.

    One off extension to 30th June

    Notes that EU likely to require purpose and any longer extension requires the EU elections

    We will not get that extension. At next week's summit they will tell us to swivel.

    So, Brexit week then dawns. May will bleat on about my deal or no deal. Her deal will fall. No deal will once again be voted against. She will be forced to revoke as her final act as PM. I think I predicted this a while back...
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    kjohnw said:

    My vote for tories has gone forever . I will vote brexit party. The tories have betrayed the voters

    I certainly won't be voting Conservative next time around. Not even the threat of Corbyn is enough. Doubt I'll be voting Brexit Party but I'll most likely abstain. What's the point in voting any more?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    If there was to be MV3, and frankly I think that should not happen as the deal is dead, I hope at least it is soon. An extension, for any length of time, will just result in months more of nothing and a last minute panic again.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Adam Boulton. Only option for ERG is to back TM deal

    That horse has not only bolted, the stable door and most of the wall went with him.

    They are utter fools.
    Though the MV2 would still have fell even if every single ERG member had backed it.
    While that's true, if you were a Labour MP in a Leave seat, why waste political capital backing the deal if it's going to lose by 100+ votes?

    It needed to be close enough that people could think they were doing the right thing for the country by backing it or abstaining.
    The same could be said of Tory remainers.
  • Jonathan said:

    May, she is an utter disaster.

    You know what?

    I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.

    She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.

    She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
    It most certainly is not all TM fault.

    I agree with your comments and put this mess at the door of the 498 mps who voted to invoke A50 with a default no deal outcome
  • Awb683Awb683 Posts: 80

    The credible deal is the one Labour took to Brussels last month which got the seal of approval from the EU negotiators as a positive basis for a soft Brexit. They have had a credible deal all along.

    Spreadshit Phil 13.3.19 appears to be advising TM to get on with speaking to Jezza

    Hard to take 'Labour' and 'credible' in the same sentence!!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    GIN1138 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament

    She's probably on her 5th gin and tonic...
    But right nevertheless

    Parliament knows that government has been trying to play games with them, and MPs are rightly unhappy,
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,008
    Sean_F said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JRM is rattled.

    Unfortunately JRM and the rest of the DUP/ERG have become drunk on their own publicity and have probably blown Brexit forever.
    JRM has turned out to be a real dickhead.
    Dickhead's the word. I used to think he was an amusing oddball.
    I used to think he was an intelligent and reasoned debater on defending unfashionable traditions and principles that others dared not to touch, and he was overlooked for ministerial office.

    I was wrong.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    kyf_100 said:

    kjohnw said:

    My vote for tories has gone forever . I will vote brexit party. The tories have betrayed the voters

    I certainly won't be voting Conservative next time around. Not even the threat of Corbyn is enough. Doubt I'll be voting Brexit Party but I'll most likely abstain. What's the point in voting any more?
    The result of the last national vote to take away May's majority for Brexit seems to have been effective.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    algarkirk said:

    The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.

    Certainly if the EU wants a deal to pass, that's one way to force it.

    I wonder how the vote would go, say on the 26th, knowing that it really was deal or no-deal, end of the road.
  • Meanwhile, at my businesses Brexit meeting tomorrow I will confirm that we have to assume no deal and act accordingly
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    Awb683 said:

    The credible deal is the one Labour took to Brussels last month which got the seal of approval from the EU negotiators as a positive basis for a soft Brexit. They have had a credible deal all along.

    Spreadshit Phil 13.3.19 appears to be advising TM to get on with speaking to Jezza

    Hard to take 'Labour' and 'credible' in the same sentence!!
    You thinking of TM?
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited March 2019

    Jonathan said:

    May, she is an utter disaster.

    You know what?

    I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.

    She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.

    She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
    May is a decent person but a poor leader. She made life incredibly hard for herself after losing a GE which brought about the double calamity of a) losing her majority and b) bringing the DUP/NI into the equation (the EU and the Remainers have played the border issue like a fiddle).

    I still think her deal will get through though. Because for all the bitching and abuse no-one else in parliament has any deal to offer. Her's is the only deal in the room.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764
    eek said:

    AndyJS said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr Moonbeam,

    "Beeb have got the Weatherspoons bloke on. Everyone he has spoken to (i.e. daytime drinkers) wants No Deal, doncha know?"

    You can't beat Wetherspoons for a cheap meal and a pint. A man with an eye for business and his finger on the pulse.

    Martin is an odious individual and his pubs are absolute holes.
    Which pub would you recommend?
    I took my parents to the Rose Tree in Durham on Saturday for dinner and it was far better than I expected.
    Some of the pubs are very good.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    Mr B2,

    "Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament."

    Surely she should be calling the MPs out on their contempt for the people? They think they've won, but I suspect an MP's job just got a lot harder in most areas of England.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    Andrew said:

    algarkirk said:

    The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.

    Certainly if the EU wants a deal to pass, that's one way to force it.

    I wonder how the vote would go, say on the 26th, knowing that it really was deal or no-deal, end of the road.
    It never can be deal or no deal, because we have the right to revoke unilaterally.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Sean_F said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JRM is rattled.

    Unfortunately JRM and the rest of the DUP/ERG have become drunk on their own publicity and have probably blown Brexit forever.
    JRM has turned out to be a real dickhead.
    Dickhead's the word. I used to think he was an amusing oddball.
    I used to think he was an intelligent and reasoned debater on defending unfashionable traditions and principles that others dared not to touch, and he was overlooked for ministerial office.

    I was wrong.
    I never went that far, but I thought he was thoughtful. But I remember him making up constitutional norms after he failed to oust May, and looking like a pathetic little baby.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764
    kle4 said:

    Penny seems to be dropping for a few of the ERG.

    I said only yesterday that the moronic thickos would only work this out 72 hours too late.

    They’ve surpassed themselves.
    Just wait until they want MV3 and Bercow says no!
    "But, I never realised that there was not a majority for No Deal."
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited March 2019
    IanB2 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament

    She's probably on her 5th gin and tonic...
    But right nevertheless

    Parliament knows that government has been trying to play games with them, and MPs are rightly unhappy,
    How? The government have given them all the votes they want? They are in the process of successfully over-turning the biggest democratic vote in the history of the country. What more do they want?

    Anna Soubry should just reside to the Srangers Bar and find happy oblivion in the gin cabinet, as she's winning.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Who would want to be PM next ? Keeping us in after the nation says leave.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Spelman Amendment

    Noes outside Gov't parties

    Lady Hermon
    Ronnie Campbell
    Stephen Hepburn
    Kate Hoey
    Kelvin Hopkins
    John Mann
    Dennis Skinner
    Graham Stringer

    Tory Ayes

    Guto Bebb
    Kenneth Clarke
    Justine Greening
    Dominic Grieve
    Sam Gyimah
    Phillip Lee
    Antoinette Sandbach
    Caroline Spelman
    Ed Vaizey

    Independent Ayes (All Tiggers voted Aye)

    Ian Austin
    Frank Field
    Stephen lloyd
    John Woodcock
    Jared O'Mara
    Fiona Onasanya !!

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,910

    Jonathan said:

    May, she is an utter disaster.

    You know what?

    I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.

    She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.

    She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
    "My, she is tenacious, isn't she?"
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    Andrew said:

    algarkirk said:

    The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.

    Certainly if the EU wants a deal to pass, that's one way to force it.

    I wonder how the vote would go, say on the 26th, knowing that it really was deal or no-deal, end of the road.
    There'd be some very conflicted Labour MPs......
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    kle4 said:
    Had Spelman not passed then there would not have been a whip so they'd have been free to vote against No Deal. Instead, it was whipped and the likes of Rudd had to go against the government.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    TGOHF said:

    Who would want to be PM next ? Keeping us in after the nation says leave.

    Jezza?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Currently a lady giant being interviewed on Sky News
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    Jeremy Corbyn says from tomorrow he will hold meetings with MPs from across the House of Commons to draft a Brexit deal that could pass

    If only old tin ear had done this yonks ago
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Adam Boulton. Only option for ERG is to back TM deal

    That horse has not only bolted, the stable door and most of the wall went with him.

    They are utter fools.
    Though the MV2 would still have fell even if every single ERG member had backed it.
    While that's true, if you were a Labour MP in a Leave seat, why waste political capital backing the deal if it's going to lose by 100+ votes?

    It needed to be close enough that people could think they were doing the right thing for the country by backing it or abstaining.
    The same could be said of Tory remainers.
    That's probably true.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Pulpstar said:

    Spelman Amendment

    Noes outside Gov't parties

    Lady Hermon
    Ronnie Campbell
    Stephen Hepburn
    Kate Hoey
    Kelvin Hopkins
    John Mann
    Dennis Skinner
    Graham Stringer

    Tory Ayes

    Guto Bebb
    Kenneth Clarke
    Justine Greening
    Dominic Grieve
    Sam Gyimah
    Phillip Lee
    Antoinette Sandbach
    Caroline Spelman
    Ed Vaizey

    Independent Ayes (All Tiggers voted Aye)

    Ian Austin
    Frank Field
    Stephen lloyd
    John Woodcock
    Jared O'Mara
    Fiona Onasanya !!

    Lol lol @ Spelman tabling her amendment, standing up in the House to say she no longer wanted to move it, then voting for it anyway.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    So will the ERG and DUP now cave in on MV3?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited March 2019
    Pulpstar said:


    Fiona Onasanya !!

    Back to vote on tag then? Just another night in the House Of Crooks...
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    kle4 said:
    That 3rd point only states that there will be EU elections, not what any extension will target as it's final result. And I suspect can kicking / time wasting until hell freezes over isn't an option.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    I am listening to a Tory on TV saying that we will leave the EU on March 29th in the same sentence as saying we are seeking an article 50 extension.

    Seriously. This actually happened. Even Andrew Neil was shocked at the stupidity of it.
  • And in other news Liverpool take lead v Bayern ( away goal )
  • Andrew said:

    algarkirk said:

    The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.

    Certainly if the EU wants a deal to pass, that's one way to force it.

    I wonder how the vote would go, say on the 26th, knowing that it really was deal or no-deal, end of the road.
    There'd be some very conflicted Labour MPs......
    Nope, they will propose an amendment that in the event of no deal being passed and no extension forthcoming that the government obey the house and revoke A50
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Who would want to be PM next ? Keeping us in after the nation says leave.

    Jezza?
    He's willing to Leave, on his terms (if that can pass muster with the EU, who knows, but supposedly they are warm to the idea). May should let him have a shot.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament

    How has it done that? Parliament has kept this government in power and parliament has not yet said what it does want, only what it doesn't want.
    Does Parliament not merit contempt?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Currently a lady giant being interviewed on Sky News

    Antoinette Sandbach.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,008
    Fenster said:

    Jonathan said:

    May, she is an utter disaster.

    You know what?

    I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.

    She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.

    She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.
    May is a decent person but a poor leader. She made life incredibly hard for herself after losing a GE which brought about the double calamity of a) losing her majority and b) bringing the DUP/NI into the equation (the EU and the Remainers have played the border issue like a fiddle).

    I still think her deal will get through though. Because for all the bitching and abuse no-one else in parliament has any deal to offer. Her's is the only deal in the room.
    My gut instinct isn’t usually far wrong.

    My gut told me it was all over as soon as that exit poll flashed up.

    And I had the same feeling the election would go wrong within minutes of the manifesto launch.

  • Benjamin Kentish
    @BenKentish
    Source says Tory whips are desperately trying to find defence minister Tobias Ellwood, who just broke three-line whip and abstained. He’s due to give adjournment debate speech shortly but whips unable to find him.

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    GIN1138 said:

    IanB2 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament

    She's probably on her 5th gin and tonic...
    But right nevertheless

    Parliament knows that government has been trying to play games with them, and MPs are rightly unhappy,
    How? The government have given them all the votes they want? They are in the process of successfully over-turning the biggest democratic vote in the history of the country. What more do they want?

    Anna Soubry should just reside to the Srangers Bar and find happy oblivion in the gin cabinet, as she's winning.
    How? May promised MPs a series of straightforward choices, then tried to muddy the water with the wording of today's motion. And looks like it is up to similar tricks tomorrow.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    3 line whip

    Wow Ministers including 4 Cabinet - Rudd, Perry, Stephen Hammond, Buckland, Clark, Mundell, Ellwood, Gauke, Richard Harrington, Burt, James, Milton - all abstained on the main motion
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Jeremy Corbyn says from tomorrow he will hold meetings with MPs from across the House of Commons to draft a Brexit deal that could pass

    If only old tin ear had done this yonks ago

    More advisory irrelevance..
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:
    Had Spelman not passed then there would not have been a whip so they'd have been free to vote against No Deal. Instead, it was whipped and the likes of Rudd had to go against the government.
    What of it? They got what they wanted, no deal vote passed, and no one 'has' to follow the whip if prepared to face the consequences, which they had repeatedly claimed they were.
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:
    Had Spelman not passed then there would not have been a whip so they'd have been free to vote against No Deal. Instead, it was whipped and the likes of Rudd had to go against the government.
    Yvette Cooper would make a fine LOTO.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Tories joining Aye rebels for main motion :

    Richard Benyon
    Nick Boles
    Jonathan Djanogly
    George Freeman
    Oliver Letwin
    Paul Masterton
    Sarah Newton
    Mark Pawsey
    Antoinette Sandbach
    Nicholas Soames

    Labour Noes for main motion

    Stephen Hepburn
    Kate Hoey

    Indpendent Noes

    Lady Hermon
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,340
    What price MV3 passing with TM offering the carrot of a 2nd referendum?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,008
    eek said:

    Penny seems to be dropping for a few of the ERG.

    I said only yesterday that the moronic thickos would only work this out 72 hours too late.

    They’ve surpassed themselves.
    75 of them needed to work this out. While some seem to have worked it out have all the people required worked it out yet?
    No.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,340
    Is the motion passed tonight legally binding on the Givernment? If the EU say no to an extension and May’s deal is voted down again, is May legally obliged to revoke A50?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720


    Benjamin Kentish
    @BenKentish
    Source says Tory whips are desperately trying to find defence minister Tobias Ellwood, who just broke three-line whip and abstained. He’s due to give adjournment debate speech shortly but whips unable to find him.

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    He has resigned presumably
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:
    Had Spelman not passed then there would not have been a whip so they'd have been free to vote against No Deal. Instead, it was whipped and the likes of Rudd had to go against the government.
    What of it? They got what they wanted, no deal vote passed, and no one 'has' to follow the whip if prepared to face the consequences, which they had repeatedly claimed they were.
    Clearly they are concerned about their careers once this is over.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Soubry now calling the government out on its contempt for parliament

    How has it done that? Parliament has kept this government in power and parliament has not yet said what it does want, only what it doesn't want.
    Does Parliament not merit contempt?
    I think for all May deserves huge amounts of crap for her actions it is a bit rich of parliament to complaint about that given their unreasonableness and unwillingness to make positive choices about things, just say no to things, have been a huge cause of trouble.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2019
    Theresa May has obviously decided not to sack ministers who vote against the government, but doing so damages her authority and credibility even if it's the sensible thing to do in these particular circumstances.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741

    You know what?

    I’m not shy of criticising May’s political skills and leadership style but I’m getting a little bit tired of this.

    She’s the only one who’s worked night and day to try and bring a deal about, and hasn’t given up or moved on trying to deliver on the Brexit mandate regardless of the obstacles or difficulties. And she’s had to put up with a remarkable amount of shit (from everyone) to do this when hardly anyone (perhaps no one) has had any better ideas to how to execute it.

    She’s earned my respect for her tenacity, determination and sense of duty if nothing else. So, no, I won’t dump it all on her.

    It most certainly is not all TM fault.

    I agree with your comments and put this mess at the door of the 498 mps who voted to invoke A50 with a default no deal outcome
    I'm no Conservative but I respect her diligence, her integrity and recognise her earnest desire to do the best (as she sees it) for Party and country.

    As for "blame", yes, there's plenty to go round but I start with May failing to include and accept voices from outside her Party and Government. Leaving the EU is a national project and required a range of skills, expertise and opinion from across the political spectrum but instead she secreted the whole process within the Conservative Party and spent her spare time making jibes at Labour and talking about "uniting the country".

    As for the nonsense about the 498 MPs and A50, the No Deal outcome isn't our default, it's within A50 itself - you can argue the 24 month time limit is absurd and that's valid but the fact of leaving without a Deal or an agreed extension is within the A50 process. We couldn't have invalidated the No Deal option - could we have prepared better?

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764

    Andrew said:

    algarkirk said:

    The sanest course now is for the EU to decline to allow an extension, at which point TMs deal will pass. This phase needs to come to an end.

    Certainly if the EU wants a deal to pass, that's one way to force it.

    I wonder how the vote would go, say on the 26th, knowing that it really was deal or no-deal, end of the road.
    There'd be some very conflicted Labour MPs......
    Nope, they will propose an amendment that in the event of no deal being passed and no extension forthcoming that the government obey the house and revoke A50
    I can't see a majority for that, quite.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    The £ is rising happily
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786

    eek said:

    Penny seems to be dropping for a few of the ERG.

    I said only yesterday that the moronic thickos would only work this out 72 hours too late.

    They’ve surpassed themselves.
    75 of them needed to work this out. While some seem to have worked it out have all the people required worked it out yet?
    No.
    Even if they have worked it out, that doesn't necessarily incentivise them to vote for the deal.
This discussion has been closed.