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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Osborne’s Standard has surely got this right – TMay is in offi

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  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766

    TOPPING said:

    If you are a Leaver it is imo entirely plausible to say you voted to Leave and all the chaos and potential damage to the UK is fine because any version of Leave is better than any version of Remain. Included in their thought process was a range of outcomes of which our current one is one such.

    The Tyndall line if I have it correctly.

    What I find absolutely unbelievable is the Leavers who are amazed at the current situation and moan that it shouldn’t have been like this and this isn’t what was supposed to happen. That is naivety on a grand scale and that is putting it politely.

    Sure, people shouldn’t have expected parliament to actually do what it was told by the public.
    Parliament was told what to do by their constituents. The referendum was a non-binding indicative instruction to the executive which has done what it was told, but the electorate decided to reduce the government's ability to get the deal through parliament. I thought people wanted our parliament to be sovereign?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766

    Sean_F said:

    Barnesian said:

    312 to 314!

    LOL!. MP's are showing that there is a majority against every single course of action.
    General election.
    Which might result in another hung parliament!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697
    The Good Ship May's stabilizing...
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,176
    There's something to be said for governments with good thumping majorities .

    It has to be said that TM's strategy to call an election when the polls said she was 20 points ahead and heading for a 150 majority, so as to avoid the current mess, wasn't the worst strategy in the world....
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,968

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    If you are a Leaver it is imo entirely plausible to say you voted to Leave and all the chaos and potential damage to the UK is fine because any version of Leave is better than any version of Remain. Included in their thought process was a range of outcomes of which our current one is one such.

    The Tyndall line if I have it correctly.

    What I find absolutely unbelievable is the Leavers who are amazed at the current situation and moan that it shouldn’t have been like this and this isn’t what was supposed to happen. That is naivety on a grand scale and that is putting it politely.

    I admit that I am amazed at the behaviour of people like Christopher Chope, Mark Francois, Andrea Jenkyns. I thought that they would be willing to take Yes for an answer.
    As Raphael Behr has written well, many people have refused to accept that Brexit would have to be a process, rather than a permanent "cause". Once the cause had to turned into a process by necessity, it was no longer the absolute, pure, thing and cause, leaving people either to withdraw from it, or persist with the illusion of purer moral certainty being located somewhere just over the hill.
    Self-obsessed posturing is so much easier and more fun than constructive work.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Sean_F said:

    Barnesian said:

    312 to 314!

    LOL!. MP's are showing that there is a majority against every single course of action.
    General election.
    Which will get a majority for a course of action how?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    So what the hell happens now?

    Lord only knows. The only safe prediction is that Theresa Mat will say nothing has changed and that There Is No Alternative to her deal.

    The other important point to note is that the EU are going to be no more reassured that parliament is capable of deciding on anything than they were before. No Deal exit on 29th March is therefore still a significant risk.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,968

    Sean_F said:

    Barnesian said:

    312 to 314!

    LOL!. MP's are showing that there is a majority against every single course of action.
    General election.
    Which might result in another hung parliament!
    If its a hung parliament we get to hang the politicians.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,176

    What a survivor - Theresa May

    It seems utterly incredible, but I am beginning to think she might get MV3 or 4 through.
    And you'd have to hand it to her if she does. It's no coincidence the Tories are surging in the polls. Much of the country I think respects what she's trying to do.

    And the Tories want shut of her, with no credible alternative waiting in the wings!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    There's something to be said for governments with good thumping majorities .

    It has to be said that TM's strategy to call an election when the polls said she was 20 points ahead and heading for a 150 majority, so as to avoid the current mess, wasn't the worst strategy in the world....

    It wouldn't have been if it had worked!
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900


    Parliament was told what to do by their constituents. The referendum was a non-binding indicative instruction to the executive which has done what it was told, but the electorate decided to reduce the government's ability to get the deal through parliament.

    Both Labour and Conservative manifestos included a pledge to implement Brexit. Now ERG and Labour MPs are doing the exact opposite.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    This parliament is certainly providing plenty of entertainment.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766

    What a survivor - Theresa May

    It seems utterly incredible, but I am beginning to think she might get MV3 or 4 through.
    She is somewhat helped by having the thickest most incompetent LoTO in the history of parliament
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,776

    Like I say - that image is going to be plastered across every single Focus leaflet in the land at the next General Election.
    They are a f***ing disgrace. Corbyn is the biggest liar in the history of lying toe-rag lefties
    Calm down thats no way to address the next PM
    If Corbyn can't be ahead in the polls for best leader now, I think Trump stands a greater chance of winning Humble Human of the Year than Corbyn stands of becoming PM. Corbyn is a cretin of monumental proportions and the electorate know it. Michael Foot, donkey jacket an all would be miles ahead of Theresa May, but Corbyn? the man is a joke.
    You are underestimating him again.

    Extraordinary how many times his opponents make the same mistake
    You are deluding yourself. It is quite sweet really, that someone could be so taken in by a politician. I wish I had your sort of faith in a politician.
    I think the shine has worn off, but the past three years have shown he is a formidable campaigner with a hide like a rhinoceros.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    What a survivor - Theresa May

    It seems utterly incredible, but I am beginning to think she might get MV3 or 4 through.
    She can if she agrees to step down within weeks.

  • XtrainXtrain Posts: 337
    edited March 2019
    Remainer or Leaver?
    TGOHF said:
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,968

    There's something to be said for governments with good thumping majorities .

    It has to be said that TM's strategy to call an election when the polls said she was 20 points ahead and heading for a 150 majority, so as to avoid the current mess, wasn't the worst strategy in the world....

    Good idea, incompetent implementation.

    Which isn't unknown from our politicians.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,725

    Like I say - that image is going to be plastered across every single Focus leaflet in the land at the next General Election.
    They are a f***ing disgrace. Corbyn is the biggest liar in the history of lying toe-rag lefties
    Calm down thats no way to address the next PM
    If Corbyn can't be ahead in the polls for best leader now, I think Trump stands a greater chance of winning Humble Human of the Year than Corbyn stands of becoming PM. Corbyn is a cretin of monumental proportions and the electorate know it. Michael Foot, donkey jacket an all would be miles ahead of Theresa May, but Corbyn? the man is a joke.
    You are underestimating him again.

    Extraordinary how many times his opponents make the same mistake
    You are deluding yourself. It is quite sweet really, that someone could be so taken in by a politician. I wish I had your sort of faith in a politician.
    How many times have you been wrong so far.

    Lab leadership 1 & 2

    GE 2017
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Andrew said:


    Parliament was told what to do by their constituents. The referendum was a non-binding indicative instruction to the executive which has done what it was told, but the electorate decided to reduce the government's ability to get the deal through parliament.

    Both Labour and Conservative manifestos included a pledge to implement Brexit. Now ERG and Labour MPs are doing the exact opposite.
    Give over. You know that our system is inherently dishonest in the fact many people would have voted Tory or Labour regardless of what their manifestos said as anything else is more often than not a wasted vote.

    We know Labour voters are mostly for Remain.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    There's something to be said for governments with good thumping majorities .

    It has to be said that TM's strategy to call an election when the polls said she was 20 points ahead and heading for a 150 majority, so as to avoid the current mess, wasn't the worst strategy in the world....

    In some alternate universe there was no Dementia Tax, no slip-ups, just a handful of easy-to-understand populist policies... May won big and Brexit was done and dusted a long time ago.

    Sigh.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,726

    There's something to be said for governments with good thumping majorities .

    It has to be said that TM's strategy to call an election when the polls said she was 20 points ahead and heading for a 150 majority, so as to avoid the current mess, wasn't the worst strategy in the world....

    It wouldn't have been if it had worked!
    Bit like the defence of Singapore!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Cannot say I expected that outcome. Well, Parliament has spoken, which everyone supports of course. Unless we rerun this one before we rerun the MV - everyone gets 2 or 3 goes I guess.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766
    Sean_F said:

    Like I say - that image is going to be plastered across every single Focus leaflet in the land at the next General Election.
    They are a f***ing disgrace. Corbyn is the biggest liar in the history of lying toe-rag lefties
    Calm down thats no way to address the next PM
    If Corbyn can't be ahead in the polls for best leader now, I think Trump stands a greater chance of winning Humble Human of the Year than Corbyn stands of becoming PM. Corbyn is a cretin of monumental proportions and the electorate know it. Michael Foot, donkey jacket an all would be miles ahead of Theresa May, but Corbyn? the man is a joke.
    You are underestimating him again.

    Extraordinary how many times his opponents make the same mistake
    You are deluding yourself. It is quite sweet really, that someone could be so taken in by a politician. I wish I had your sort of faith in a politician.
    I think the shine has worn off, but the past three years have shown he is a formidable campaigner with a hide like a rhinoceros.
    Unfortunately for the country he has a brain that goes with the same animal
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    blueblue said:

    There's something to be said for governments with good thumping majorities .

    It has to be said that TM's strategy to call an election when the polls said she was 20 points ahead and heading for a 150 majority, so as to avoid the current mess, wasn't the worst strategy in the world....

    In some alternate universe there was no Dementia Tax, no slip-ups, just a handful of easy-to-understand populist policies... May won big and Brexit was done and dusted a long time ago.

    Sigh.
    yup

    the tories just cant get their heads round looking after the voters
  • Corbyn amendment fails, as expected.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766

    Like I say - that image is going to be plastered across every single Focus leaflet in the land at the next General Election.
    They are a f***ing disgrace. Corbyn is the biggest liar in the history of lying toe-rag lefties
    Calm down thats no way to address the next PM
    If Corbyn can't be ahead in the polls for best leader now, I think Trump stands a greater chance of winning Humble Human of the Year than Corbyn stands of becoming PM. Corbyn is a cretin of monumental proportions and the electorate know it. Michael Foot, donkey jacket an all would be miles ahead of Theresa May, but Corbyn? the man is a joke.
    You are underestimating him again.

    Extraordinary how many times his opponents make the same mistake
    You are deluding yourself. It is quite sweet really, that someone could be so taken in by a politician. I wish I had your sort of faith in a politician.
    How many times have you been wrong so far.

    Lab leadership 1 & 2

    GE 2017
    He lost the GE. Maybe you didn't notice.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Andrew said:


    Parliament was told what to do by their constituents. The referendum was a non-binding indicative instruction to the executive which has done what it was told, but the electorate decided to reduce the government's ability to get the deal through parliament.

    Both Labour and Conservative manifestos included a pledge to implement Brexit. Now ERG and Labour MPs are doing the exact opposite.
    Give over. You know that our system is inherently dishonest in the fact many people would have voted Tory or Labour regardless of what their manifestos said as anything else is more often than not a wasted vote.
    Hard to argue with that. Especially when people, even MPs, get mad at others for following official policy!
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    Like I say - that image is going to be plastered across every single Focus leaflet in the land at the next General Election.
    They are a f***ing disgrace. Corbyn is the biggest liar in the history of lying toe-rag lefties
    Calm down thats no way to address the next PM
    If Corbyn can't be ahead in the polls for best leader now, I think Trump stands a greater chance of winning Humble Human of the Year than Corbyn stands of becoming PM. Corbyn is a cretin of monumental proportions and the electorate know it. Michael Foot, donkey jacket an all would be miles ahead of Theresa May, but Corbyn? the man is a joke.
    You are underestimating him again.

    Extraordinary how many times his opponents make the same mistake
    You are deluding yourself. It is quite sweet really, that someone could be so taken in by a politician. I wish I had your sort of faith in a politician.
    How many times have you been wrong so far.

    Lab leadership 1 & 2

    GE 2017
    How many times has the far left been wrong? Too many times to count, and yet they keep hanging around like a bad smell...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,968
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Barnesian said:

    312 to 314!

    LOL!. MP's are showing that there is a majority against every single course of action.
    General election.
    Which will get a majority for a course of action how?
    Deselect every Conservative who voted against the MV.
  • oldpoliticsoldpolitics Posts: 455
    We just came within one Government defection of a fundamental constitutional question, and quite possibly the final outcome of Brexit, being decided by the vote of a convicted perjurer who is only out of prison because her mitigation included the likelihood of losing her MP status, and the casting vote of the most partisan speaker in living memory.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Corbyn fails: 302:318
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Corbyn fails: 302:318

    Bryant withdraws
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Bryant didn't move his amendment. Interesting.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Corbyn fails: 302:318

    Bryant withdraws

    So Bercow can deliver the killing blow to MV3?
  • kle4 said:

    Corbyn fails: 302:318

    Bryant withdraws

    So Bercow can deliver the killing blow to MV3?
    MV3 looks like it is the only realistic answer
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,725
    Will the Govt motion sail through now. 500/100
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Barnesian said:

    312 to 314!

    LOL!. MP's are showing that there is a majority against every single course of action.
    General election.
    Which will get a majority for a course of action how?
    Deselect every Conservative who voted against the MV.
    Ah yes, purging leavers is REALLY going to help the Tories beat Corbyn...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    kle4 said:

    Corbyn fails: 302:318

    Bryant withdraws

    So Bercow can deliver the killing blow to MV3?
    MV3 looks like it is the only realistic answer
    You keep saying this but it doesn’t make it true.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    Wow 314 - 312 TM by 2

    Just delaying the inevitable, if Parliament votes for extension of Article 50 tonight but still refuses to back May's Deal or No Deal the EU will want an indication of what Parliament will back before a significant extension is granted. 2 votes is also a closer margin than the previous Benn amemdments
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Which MP was the additional aye vote for the Benn vote?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    NEW THREAD
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,409
    6 Labour voted against Benn.

    Oh dear.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879

    What a survivor - Theresa May

    It seems utterly incredible, but I am beginning to think she might get MV3 or 4 through.

    The DUP will inevitably fall into line. If May could find it in herself to give Parliament some say in the negotiation of the final deal with the EU, a number of Labour MPs would get her over the line.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,968

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Barnesian said:

    312 to 314!

    LOL!. MP's are showing that there is a majority against every single course of action.
    General election.
    Which will get a majority for a course of action how?
    Deselect every Conservative who voted against the MV.
    Ah yes, purging leavers is REALLY going to help the Tories beat Corbyn...
    The Conservative Leavers voted for the MV, those who voted against were Remainers.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2019
    dixiedean said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    An interesting read IMO:

    "As Western civilization declines or at least frays at the edges, the ways our culture has developed to deal with the gap in the attractiveness distribution are receding and dying. Young people enter the equality-inducing institution of monogamy later and later or not at all, spending more time in a chaotically unequal polygynous dating world. Monogamy itself is weaker, as divorce becomes easier and even married people often report encountering “dead bedrooms” in which one or both spouses feel no obligation to give a partner who they do not regard as sufficiently attractive access to sexual experiences. Religious belief is in constant decline, and with it declines the belief in the dignity of celibacy or the importance of anything other than hedonism (sexual or otherwise). Even fairy tales that for centuries helped us understand how to live charitably with each other are disavowed and cultural tastemakers like Time Magazine and the BBC denigrate them as sexist.

    The result of these cultural changes is that the highly unequal social structures of the prehistoric savanna homo sapiens are reasserting themselves, and with them the dissatisfactions of the unattractive “sexually underprivileged” majority are coming back. It is ironic that the progressives who cheer on the decline of religion and the weakening of “outdated” institutions like monogamy are actually acting as the ultimate reactionaries, returning us to the oldest and most barbaric, unequal animal social structures that have ever existed. In this case it is the conservatives who are cheering for the progressive ideal of “sexual income redistribution” through a novel invention: monogamy."


    https://quillette.com/2019/03/12/attraction-inequality-and-the-dating-economy/

    Sounds utter incel bollocks to me.
    You're in denial. The article is scientifically correct. The sort of society being supported by progressives is making life less equal for many, if not most, people.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    _Anazina_ said:

    ERG adding names to Woolly amendment to ensure its voted on. Politics is now broken lol

    Why is it that I get the genuine impression that practically every person on PB is several magnitudes brighter than practically every MP in Parliament?

    And that is not me being sarcastic. I believe that the vast majority of people on here, including all those I rant against daily, have a better understanding pf politics, the EU, real life and business than almost everyone sat in the Commons.

    We are led by imbeciles.
    Think yourself lucky we haven't got 650 Alexandria Ocasio-Cortezs
    Why? – nowt wrong with AOC. She has got serious game and would one considered a centre-left moderate were she European.
    AOC is no 'centre-left moderate' she has trashed Reagan and wants a 70% top income tax rate, she is far left even by UK standards and practically Communist by US standards
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    What a survivor - Theresa May

    It seems utterly incredible, but I am beginning to think she might get MV3 or 4 through.

    The DUP will inevitably fall into line. If May could find it in herself to give Parliament some say in the negotiation of the final deal with the EU, a number of Labour MPs would get her over the line.

    For the first, that's been predicted before. For the second, yes, opening up to the same mess we're in right now will be very popular with May I am sure.

    But it won't be her problem, so why not?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,572
    TOPPING said:

    If you are a Leaver it is imo entirely plausible to say you voted to Leave and all the chaos and potential damage to the UK is fine because any version of Leave is better than any version of Remain. Included in their thought process was a range of outcomes of which our current one is one such.

    The Tyndall line if I have it correctly.

    What I find absolutely unbelievable is the Leavers who are amazed at the current situation and moan that it shouldn’t have been like this and this isn’t what was supposed to happen. That is naivety on a grand scale and that is putting it politely.

    You consider that the only plausible Leave position is for unconditional support for any version including May's deal. That incomplete agreement would tie the UK even closer to the EU than it is now since the A50 has disappeared in perpetuity, with even less decision making influence, having already thrown away all our best cards for the conclusions of the meat of any future trade agreement such that we are held hostage in general or face the break up of the UK.

    I disagree with you. Better to Remain, for now, than that version of "Leave".
  • mwjfrome17mwjfrome17 Posts: 158

    We just came within one Government defection of a fundamental constitutional question, and quite possibly the final outcome of Brexit, being decided by the vote of a convicted perjurer who is only out of prison because her mitigation included the likelihood of losing her MP status, and the casting vote of the most partisan speaker in living memory.

    she abstained I believe
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,725

    Like I say - that image is going to be plastered across every single Focus leaflet in the land at the next General Election.
    They are a f***ing disgrace. Corbyn is the biggest liar in the history of lying toe-rag lefties
    Calm down thats no way to address the next PM
    If Corbyn can't be ahead in the polls for best leader now, I think Trump stands a greater chance of winning Humble Human of the Year than Corbyn stands of becoming PM. Corbyn is a cretin of monumental proportions and the electorate know it. Michael Foot, donkey jacket an all would be miles ahead of Theresa May, but Corbyn? the man is a joke.
    You are underestimating him again.

    Extraordinary how many times his opponents make the same mistake
    You are deluding yourself. It is quite sweet really, that someone could be so taken in by a politician. I wish I had your sort of faith in a politician.
    How many times have you been wrong so far.

    Lab leadership 1 & 2

    GE 2017
    He lost the GE. Maybe you didn't notice.
    You thought he would gain seats wipe out the Tory majority and increase the Lab vote by largest amount since 1945?

    I think your wishful thinking may let you down again sometime soon.

    Especially if Shit Tory BREXIT passes
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    TOPPING said:

    If you are a Leaver it is imo entirely plausible to say you voted to Leave and all the chaos and potential damage to the UK is fine because any version of Leave is better than any version of Remain. Included in their thought process was a range of outcomes of which our current one is one such.

    The Tyndall line if I have it correctly.

    What I find absolutely unbelievable is the Leavers who are amazed at the current situation and moan that it shouldn’t have been like this and this isn’t what was supposed to happen. That is naivety on a grand scale and that is putting it politely.

    For better or worse depending on your viewpoint, you do have my position absolutely right. That said even my imagination would be strained by what we have now.

    I had fully expected that my preferred course of EFTA/EEA would be defeated as it is not one that is widely popular - or at least wasn't.

    I had been prepared for either a softer or harder Brexit depending on who had the upper hand and (oh foolish me) the best arguments.

    I had been prepared for a No Deal Brexit which, although I don't believe would be anywhere near as bad as claimed, would still not be great and would certainly be disruptive.

    I had even understood that someone, somehow, would be able to engineer things so we didn't actually leave. Though I thought that one very unlikely.

    But, even as someone who regards politicians somewhere between dog crap and discarded chewing gum, I had not believed they could make such a complete and utter clusterf*ck of things as they have. When both die hard remainers and die hard leavers (as well as Diehard Christmas movie fans) are looking on in mutual disbelief at the mess these people are making of it, you know there is something seriously wrong with our Parliamentarians as a species. .
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Anyone have any idea what happens now?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    TOPPING said:

    If you are a Leaver it is imo entirely plausible to say you voted to Leave and all the chaos and potential damage to the UK is fine because any version of Leave is better than any version of Remain. Included in their thought process was a range of outcomes of which our current one is one such.

    The Tyndall line if I have it correctly.

    What I find absolutely unbelievable is the Leavers who are amazed at the current situation and moan that it shouldn’t have been like this and this isn’t what was supposed to happen. That is naivety on a grand scale and that is putting it politely.

    You consider that the only plausible Leave position is for unconditional support for any version including May's deal. That incomplete agreement would tie the UK even closer to the EU than it is now since the A50 has disappeared in perpetuity, with even less decision making influence, having already thrown away all our best cards for the conclusions of the meat of any future trade agreement such that we are held hostage in general or face the break up of the UK.

    I disagree with you. Better to Remain, for now, than that version of "Leave".
    If you remain now then in effect you Remain forever.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    TOPPING said:

    If you are a Leaver it is imo entirely plausible to say you voted to Leave and all the chaos and potential damage to the UK is fine because any version of Leave is better than any version of Remain. Included in their thought process was a range of outcomes of which our current one is one such.

    The Tyndall line if I have it correctly.

    What I find absolutely unbelievable is the Leavers who are amazed at the current situation and moan that it shouldn’t have been like this and this isn’t what was supposed to happen. That is naivety on a grand scale and that is putting it politely.

    You consider that the only plausible Leave position is for unconditional support for any version including May's deal. That incomplete agreement would tie the UK even closer to the EU than it is now since the A50 has disappeared in perpetuity, with even less decision making influence, having already thrown away all our best cards for the conclusions of the meat of any future trade agreement such that we are held hostage in general or face the break up of the UK.

    I disagree with you. Better to Remain, for now, than that version of "Leave".
    If you remain now then in effect you Remain forever.
    That's a risk but I'm not sure leaving without enough care of attention only to have little choice but to beg to go back in is a better option...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684

    What a survivor - Theresa May

    It seems utterly incredible, but I am beginning to think she might get MV3 or 4 through.
    And you'd have to hand it to her if she does. It's no coincidence the Tories are surging in the polls. Much of the country I think respects what she's trying to do.

    And the Tories want shut of her, with no credible alternative waiting in the wings!
    Utter bollox, it is just that they are all thicker than mince and have no clue what they are doing. It has nothing to do with the clusterfcuk that she has produced. I know what the only thing I would hand to her is.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    AndyJS said:

    dixiedean said:



    Sounds utter incel bollocks to me.

    You're in denial. The article is scientifically correct. The sort of society being supported by progressives is making life less equal for many, if not most, people.
    The basic thrust - excuse the phrasing - of the article is that there are two separate economies for dating, a man will mostly date any woman while for most women, the bottom 80% of men are invisible.

    This is a return to the historical norm.

    https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success

    Ignore the headline, the truly fascinating thing buried in that article is that the historical norm is for five women to reproduce for every one man. The last couple of hundred years have been a deviation from the historical norm.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    edited March 2019
    kyf_100 said:

    AndyJS said:

    dixiedean said:



    Sounds utter incel bollocks to me.

    You're in denial. The article is scientifically correct. The sort of society being supported by progressives is making life less equal for many, if not most, people.
    The basic thrust - excuse the phrasing - of the article is that there are two separate economies for dating, a man will mostly date any woman while for most women, the bottom 80% of men are invisible.

    This is a return to the historical norm.

    https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success

    Ignore the headline, the truly fascinating thing buried in that article is that the historical norm is for five women to reproduce for every one man. The last couple of hundred years have been a deviation from the historical norm.
    Except the evidence of our eyes is that even the least promising of men in terms of ugliness, lack of character or personality manage to reproduce, albeit often without any long term relationship. You see it all the time. Clearly a lot of women have pretty low standards!
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