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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Betting on a Peterborough by election in 2019

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited March 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Betting on a Peterborough by election in 2019

This market by Ladbrokes is not on the result of any potential by election but whether there will be one in 2019. The recall petition in Peterborough opens on Tuesday and ends on the 1st of May 2019 meaning this bet will pay out in a little over six weeks.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Really - First ???

    Oh and you mean "stand down", not "stand" in the last para
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Second. Is there not a significant danger that like the Gorton by-election, this one doesn't happen because a GE is called?
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    I wonder what might be the reaction if Mrs May's deal (or other critical votes in coming weeks) fell by one vote - Fiona Onasanya's!

    It nearly happened this week with the Benn amendment.

  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    Fpt

    SeanT said:

    ‪Sad sad thought about New Zealand. The violent battle between Islamists and far right terrorists will only worsen, and intensify.

    Compare Ulster. The Islamists are the IRA, the white supremacists are the Loyalists: the inevitable, bloody and hideous reaction. ‬

    Seems a completely over the top comparison.
    There is no Islamist threat in NZ as far as I can see, probably not much of a right wing threat either - the ringleader was apparently Australian.
    Maybe that's not what you meant and were referring to the world as a whole rather than comparing NZ to NI?
    PS Started reading 'The Ice Twins'
    Yes I was taking the western world as a whole. Which is fair, I think. Islamism sees the entire kaffir world as a target; the white guy in New Zealand said his target could’ve been anywhere.

    PS enjoy the ice twins!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    "The dynamics of North Antrim clearly don’t apply here where the first ever recall process occurred but sufficient signatures to trigger a by election wasn’t reached. "

    Mr Eagles, that is just painful. My inner John Cleese is unsheathing his gladius with the words 'plural, plural,' ringing in his ears.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    brendan16 said:

    I wonder what might be the reaction if Mrs May's deal (or other critical votes in coming weeks) fell by one vote - Fiona Onasanya's!

    It nearly happened this week with the Benn amendment.

    A fourth vote, but with a huge majority in the aye direction?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    FPT:

    F1: post-race ramble about an interesting race and green weekend is up here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2019/03/australia-post-race-analysis-2019.html
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,722
    tlg86 said:

    Second. Is there not a significant danger that like the Gorton by-election, this one doesn't happen because a GE is called?

    Does it matter? Doesn't make any difference as to whether she could stand or not.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    tlg86 said:

    Second. Is there not a significant danger that like the Gorton by-election, this one doesn't happen because a GE is called?

    Does it matter? Doesn't make any difference as to whether she could stand or not.
    Presumably the bet only pays out if there actually is a by-election.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,722
    edited March 2019
    TudorRose said:

    tlg86 said:

    Second. Is there not a significant danger that like the Gorton by-election, this one doesn't happen because a GE is called?

    Does it matter? Doesn't make any difference as to whether she could stand or not.
    Presumably the bet only pays out if there actually is a by-election.
    Ah, quite. Significant then.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    TudorRose said:

    tlg86 said:

    Second. Is there not a significant danger that like the Gorton by-election, this one doesn't happen because a GE is called?

    Does it matter? Doesn't make any difference as to whether she could stand or not.
    Presumably the bet only pays out if there actually is a by-election.
    I can't see any T+Cs on the website, but my guess is the by-election has to actually happen for the 1/6 to come in. So it's a bit misleading to say it's a 16% return in just over a month.
  • tlg86 said:

    TudorRose said:

    tlg86 said:

    Second. Is there not a significant danger that like the Gorton by-election, this one doesn't happen because a GE is called?

    Does it matter? Doesn't make any difference as to whether she could stand or not.
    Presumably the bet only pays out if there actually is a by-election.
    I can't see any T+Cs on the website, but my guess is the by-election has to actually happen for the 1/6 to come in. So it's a bit misleading to say it's a 16% return in just over a month.
    It’s a 100% return of your stake if there’s a general election.
  • ydoethur said:

    "The dynamics of North Antrim clearly don’t apply here where the first ever recall process occurred but sufficient signatures to trigger a by election wasn’t reached. "

    Mr Eagles, that is just painful. My inner John Cleese is unsheathing his gladius with the words 'plural, plural,' ringing in his ears.

    Better now?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    tlg86 said:

    TudorRose said:

    tlg86 said:

    Second. Is there not a significant danger that like the Gorton by-election, this one doesn't happen because a GE is called?

    Does it matter? Doesn't make any difference as to whether she could stand or not.
    Presumably the bet only pays out if there actually is a by-election.
    I can't see any T+Cs on the website, but my guess is the by-election has to actually happen for the 1/6 to come in. So it's a bit misleading to say it's a 16% return in just over a month.
    It’s a 100% return of your stake if there’s a general election.
    Fair enough, always important to check these things.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,722
    tlg86 said:

    TudorRose said:

    tlg86 said:

    Second. Is there not a significant danger that like the Gorton by-election, this one doesn't happen because a GE is called?

    Does it matter? Doesn't make any difference as to whether she could stand or not.
    Presumably the bet only pays out if there actually is a by-election.
    I can't see any T+Cs on the website, but my guess is the by-election has to actually happen for the 1/6 to come in. So it's a bit misleading to say it's a 16% return in just over a month.
    The polling places apparently remain open for the requisite time, whether or not the required number has been reached. So the risk of a GE being called is not negligible
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    ydoethur said:

    "The dynamics of North Antrim clearly don’t apply here where the first ever recall process occurred but sufficient signatures to trigger a by election wasn’t reached. "

    Mr Eagles, that is just painful. My inner John Cleese is unsheathing his gladius with the words 'plural, plural,' ringing in his ears.

    Better now?
    Phew. I do not have to cut any parts off you...
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,545
    I recon this is as good a 1-6 shot as you'll find. Everyone has a reason for wanting a by-election except her.

    Will be a big grudge match when the by-election comes about though.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    tlg86 said:

    TudorRose said:

    tlg86 said:

    Second. Is there not a significant danger that like the Gorton by-election, this one doesn't happen because a GE is called?

    Does it matter? Doesn't make any difference as to whether she could stand or not.
    Presumably the bet only pays out if there actually is a by-election.
    I can't see any T+Cs on the website, but my guess is the by-election has to actually happen for the 1/6 to come in. So it's a bit misleading to say it's a 16% return in just over a month.
    The polling places apparently remain open for the requisite time, whether or not the required number has been reached. So the risk of a GE being called is not negligible
    If people think there's going to be a GE then there's less incentive to sign the petition.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    tpfkar said:

    I recon this is as good a 1-6 shot as you'll find. Everyone has a reason for wanting a by-election except her.

    Will be a big grudge match when the by-election comes about though.

    I agree. Especially as we've all had speeding points and the crime is one everyone can relate to and get indignant about.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922
    Seems everyone's writing by-election threads these days! Mine is nearly complete...
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,745
    Afternoon all :)

    Sone interesting comments from Philip Hammond this morning. Clearly, a deft mixture of carrot and stick is being applied to get the DUP on side and clearly Foster and Dobbs are fully aware of the power they hold and the price they will try to exact will be an object lesson to future smaller parties negotiating with the Conservatives.

    As the phrase has it "if you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will soon follow".

    The other aspect though is the desperate attempt to avoid a third voting humiliation for the Prime Minister or perhaps sensing Bercow will reject a fourth meaningful vote. The WA won't be put before the Commons unless the Government thinks it will win which is reasonable enough. However, 29/3 awaits as does the EU summit next weekend.

    IF there is no third vote on the WA how will the EU react in terms of granting a meaningful extension to May ? Will she have to concede she won't get the WA through in time? Again, all impossible to know at this time but the WA won't be on the Order Paper unless the Conservative Whips know or are confident they have a majority.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    IanB2 said:

    tpfkar said:

    I recon this is as good a 1-6 shot as you'll find. Everyone has a reason for wanting a by-election except her.

    Will be a big grudge match when the by-election comes about though.

    I agree. Especially as we've all had speeding points and the crime is one everyone can relate to and get indignant about.
    As always, it was more about the cover up than the crime. If she had admitted it no one would be bothered at all and she’d have had a fair shot at holding the seat at the next election.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    After three weeks with good batches of councillor defections, last week there were just two:

    Torfaen: Lab to IND
    Worcester: Green to Con

    TIG needs some publicity. Outside Parliament all they seem to be doing are online petitions in the style of change.org
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Sone interesting comments from Philip Hammond this morning. Clearly, a deft mixture of carrot and stick is being applied to get the DUP on side and clearly Foster and Dobbs are fully aware of the power they hold and the price they will try to exact will be an object lesson to future smaller parties negotiating with the Conservatives.

    As the phrase has it "if you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will soon follow".

    The other aspect though is the desperate attempt to avoid a third voting humiliation for the Prime Minister or perhaps sensing Bercow will reject a fourth meaningful vote. The WA won't be put before the Commons unless the Government thinks it will win which is reasonable enough. However, 29/3 awaits as does the EU summit next weekend.

    IF there is no third vote on the WA how will the EU react in terms of granting a meaningful extension to May ? Will she have to concede she won't get the WA through in time? Again, all impossible to know at this time but the WA won't be on the Order Paper unless the Conservative Whips know or are confident they have a majority.

    The things I took away from his interview were: MV3 may not take place Tuesday unless they get strong signs that enough MPs have switched, Brexit almost certainly won't take place on 29 March since there'll be an extension one way or another, and that he isn't bothered about criticism from the PM.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    The number of applications for Irish passports has risen to record levels with almost a quarter of a million requests since January, Ireland’s department of foreign affairs has said.

    Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, said the 230,000 applications represented a 30% increase on the same period last year.

    It puts 2019 on course for the highest level of applications in the history of the country, after a record 860,000 Irish passports issued last year, with around 200,000 coming from the UK.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    IanB2 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Sone interesting comments from Philip Hammond this morning. Clearly, a deft mixture of carrot and stick is being applied to get the DUP on side and clearly Foster and Dobbs are fully aware of the power they hold and the price they will try to exact will be an object lesson to future smaller parties negotiating with the Conservatives.

    As the phrase has it "if you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will soon follow".

    The other aspect though is the desperate attempt to avoid a third voting humiliation for the Prime Minister or perhaps sensing Bercow will reject a fourth meaningful vote. The WA won't be put before the Commons unless the Government thinks it will win which is reasonable enough. However, 29/3 awaits as does the EU summit next weekend.

    IF there is no third vote on the WA how will the EU react in terms of granting a meaningful extension to May ? Will she have to concede she won't get the WA through in time? Again, all impossible to know at this time but the WA won't be on the Order Paper unless the Conservative Whips know or are confident they have a majority.

    The things I took away from his interview were: MV3 may not take place Tuesday unless they get strong signs that enough MPs have switched, Brexit almost certainly won't take place on 29 March since there'll be an extension one way or another, and that he isn't bothered about criticism from the PM.
    Wasn't there a specific date in the motion that passed last week? Unless May's deal is agreed before 20th March then the requested delay will be longer than June. Presumably they can't be held to that but it will make the EU summit (even) more difficult.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,745
    IanB2 said:


    The things I took away from his interview were: MV3 may not take place Tuesday unless they get strong signs that enough MPs have switched, Brexit almost certainly won't take place on 29 March since there'll be an extension one way or another, and that he isn't bothered about criticism from the PM.

    Agreed re MV3. I'm less convinced there'll be an extension from the EU if MV3 hasn't happened or it has been defeated. If it's been passed and time is needed to enact legislation, the EU will be accommodating but otherwise they will want to know what May will do with additional time.

    She can, of course, revoke A50 now and, after further time to consider options, re-instigate the A50 process. That makes sense in terms of the national interest, whether it does for the interest of the Conservative Party is a different question.

    No one in the Cabinet cares any more - Rudd, Gauke and others are in open revolt and she simply lacks the authority to do anything. In office but not in power as was mentioned a few days ago.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    IanB2 said:

    After three weeks with good batches of councillor defections, last week there were just two:

    Torfaen: Lab to IND
    Worcester: Green to Con

    TIG needs some publicity. Outside Parliament all they seem to be doing are online petitions in the style of change.org

    How do you hear about all these defections?!

    Agreed on TIG. I know their job is hard, and they are not even a new party yet, but if they want to achieve more than they already have in scaring the main two (particularly Labour) they need something to give them a jolt.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922
    IanB2 said:

    The number of applications for Irish passports has risen to record levels with almost a quarter of a million requests since January, Ireland’s department of foreign affairs has said.

    Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, said the 230,000 applications represented a 30% increase on the same period last year.

    It puts 2019 on course for the highest level of applications in the history of the country, after a record 860,000 Irish passports issued last year, with around 200,000 coming from the UK.

    Happy St Partick's Day!
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    TudorRose said:

    IanB2 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Sone interesting comments from Philip Hammond this morning. Clearly, a deft mixture of carrot and stick is being applied to get the DUP on side and clearly Foster and Dobbs are fully aware of the power they hold and the price they will try to exact will be an object lesson to future smaller parties negotiating with the Conservatives.

    As the phrase has it "if you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will soon follow".

    The other aspect though is the desperate attempt to avoid a third voting humiliation for the Prime Minister or perhaps sensing Bercow will reject a fourth meaningful vote. The WA won't be put before the Commons unless the Government thinks it will win which is reasonable enough. However, 29/3 awaits as does the EU summit next weekend.

    IF there is no third vote on the WA how will the EU react in terms of granting a meaningful extension to May ? Will she have to concede she won't get the WA through in time? Again, all impossible to know at this time but the WA won't be on the Order Paper unless the Conservative Whips know or are confident they have a majority.

    The things I took away from his interview were: MV3 may not take place Tuesday unless they get strong signs that enough MPs have switched, Brexit almost certainly won't take place on 29 March since there'll be an extension one way or another, and that he isn't bothered about criticism from the PM.
    Wasn't there a specific date in the motion that passed last week? Unless May's deal is agreed before 20th March then the requested delay will be longer than June. Presumably they can't be held to that but it will make the EU summit (even) more difficult.
    ...and the whole schtick to get people to vote for MV3 is that the alternative is a long extension anyway, so if the threat of a long extension doesn't work and they then pull MV3 then a long extension seems to be the only thing for it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited March 2019
    brendan16 said:

    I wonder what might be the reaction if Mrs May's deal (or other critical votes in coming weeks) fell by one vote - Fiona Onasanya's!

    It nearly happened this week with the Benn amendment.

    It'd be even funnier if it passed because of her vote!
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    IanB2 said:

    The number of applications for Irish passports has risen to record levels with almost a quarter of a million requests since January, Ireland’s department of foreign affairs has said.

    Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, said the 230,000 applications represented a 30% increase on the same period last year.

    It puts 2019 on course for the highest level of applications in the history of the country, after a record 860,000 Irish passports issued last year, with around 200,000 coming from the UK.

    Happy St Partick's Day!
    Apparently Leprechauns (and their heritage) are protected by EU directive.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited March 2019
    TudorRose said:

    IanB2 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Sone interesting comments from Philip Hammond this morning. Clearly, a deft mixture of carrot and stick is being applied to get the DUP on side and clearly Foster and Dobbs are fully aware of the power they hold and the price they will try to exact will be an object lesson to future smaller parties negotiating with the Conservatives.

    As the phrase has it "if you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will soon follow".

    The other aspect though is the desperate attempt to avoid a third voting humiliation for the Prime Minister or perhaps sensing Bercow will reject a fourth meaningful vote. The WA won't be put before the Commons unless the Government thinks it will win which is reasonable enough. However, 29/3 awaits as does the EU summit next weekend.

    IF there is no third vote on the WA how will the EU react in terms of granting a meaningful extension to May ? Will she have to concede she won't get the WA through in time? Again, all impossible to know at this time but the WA won't be on the Order Paper unless the Conservative Whips know or are confident they have a majority.

    The things I took away from his interview were: MV3 may not take place Tuesday unless they get strong signs that enough MPs have switched, Brexit almost certainly won't take place on 29 March since there'll be an extension one way or another, and that he isn't bothered about criticism from the PM.
    Wasn't there a specific date in the motion that passed last week? Unless May's deal is agreed before 20th March then the requested delay will be longer than June. Presumably they can't be held to that but it will make the EU summit (even) more difficult.
    Was it before the 20th or by the 20th? Because the latter could be read as by the 'end of' 20th, and has implications, gods forbid, for MV4 (you know they want MV4 - why give in on MV3 when another will happen?)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    stodge said:

    IanB2 said:


    The things I took away from his interview were: MV3 may not take place Tuesday unless they get strong signs that enough MPs have switched, Brexit almost certainly won't take place on 29 March since there'll be an extension one way or another, and that he isn't bothered about criticism from the PM.

    Agreed re MV3. I'm less convinced there'll be an extension from the EU if MV3 hasn't happened or it has been defeated. If it's been passed and time is needed to enact legislation, the EU will be accommodating but otherwise they will want to know what May will do with additional time.

    She can, of course, revoke A50 now and, after further time to consider options, re-instigate the A50 process. That makes sense in terms of the national interest, whether it does for the interest of the Conservative Party is a different question.

    No one in the Cabinet cares any more - Rudd, Gauke and others are in open revolt and she simply lacks the authority to do anything. In office but not in power as was mentioned a few days ago.

    Hopefully May will go after a MV3 defeat.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Jonathan said:

    stodge said:

    IanB2 said:


    The things I took away from his interview were: MV3 may not take place Tuesday unless they get strong signs that enough MPs have switched, Brexit almost certainly won't take place on 29 March since there'll be an extension one way or another, and that he isn't bothered about criticism from the PM.

    Agreed re MV3. I'm less convinced there'll be an extension from the EU if MV3 hasn't happened or it has been defeated. If it's been passed and time is needed to enact legislation, the EU will be accommodating but otherwise they will want to know what May will do with additional time.

    She can, of course, revoke A50 now and, after further time to consider options, re-instigate the A50 process. That makes sense in terms of the national interest, whether it does for the interest of the Conservative Party is a different question.

    No one in the Cabinet cares any more - Rudd, Gauke and others are in open revolt and she simply lacks the authority to do anything. In office but not in power as was mentioned a few days ago.

    Hopefully May will go after a MV3 defeat.
    Sure, although what would actually be any different from having been defeated in the MV2 vote? She's already set out the plan for the net phase if MV3 fails.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    kle4 said:

    TudorRose said:

    IanB2 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Sone interesting comments from Philip Hammond this morning. Clearly, a deft mixture of carrot and stick is being applied to get the DUP on side and clearly Foster and Dobbs are fully aware of the power they hold and the price they will try to exact will be an object lesson to future smaller parties negotiating with the Conservatives.

    As the phrase has it "if you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will soon follow".

    The other aspect though is the desperate attempt to avoid a third voting humiliation for the Prime Minister or perhaps sensing Bercow will reject a fourth meaningful vote. The WA won't be put before the Commons unless the Government thinks it will win which is reasonable enough. However, 29/3 awaits as does the EU summit next weekend.

    IF there is no third vote on the WA how will the EU react in terms of granting a meaningful extension to May ? Will she have to concede she won't get the WA through in time? Again, all impossible to know at this time but the WA won't be on the Order Paper unless the Conservative Whips know or are confident they have a majority.

    The things I took away from his interview were: MV3 may not take place Tuesday unless they get strong signs that enough MPs have switched, Brexit almost certainly won't take place on 29 March since there'll be an extension one way or another, and that he isn't bothered about criticism from the PM.
    Wasn't there a specific date in the motion that passed last week? Unless May's deal is agreed before 20th March then the requested delay will be longer than June. Presumably they can't be held to that but it will make the EU summit (even) more difficult.
    Was it before the 20th or by the 20th? Because the latter could be read as by the 'end of' 20th, and has implications, gods forbid, for MV4 (you know they want MV4 - why give in on MV3 when another will happen?)
    You're right; it's 'by' the 20th, but if they aren't voting on Tuesday then that leaves.... Wednesday!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    TudorRose said:

    kle4 said:

    TudorRose said:

    IanB2 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Sone interesting comments from Philip Hammond this morning. Clearly, a deft mixture of carrot and stick is being applied to get the DUP on side and clearly Foster and Dobbs are fully aware of the power they hold and the price they will try to exact will be an object lesson to future smaller parties negotiating with the Conservatives.

    As the phrase has it "if you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will soon follow".

    The other aspect though is the desperate attempt to avoid a third voting humiliation for the Prime Minister or perhaps sensing Bercow will reject a fourth meaningful vote. The WA won't be put before the Commons unless the Government thinks it will win which is reasonable enough. However, 29/3 awaits as does the EU summit next weekend.

    IF there is no third vote on the WA how will the EU react in terms of granting a meaningful extension to May ? Will she have to concede she won't get the WA through in time? Again, all impossible to know at this time but the WA won't be on the Order Paper unless the Conservative Whips know or are confident they have a majority.

    The things I took away from his interview were: MV3 may not take place Tuesday unless they get strong signs that enough MPs have switched, Brexit almost certainly won't take place on 29 March since there'll be an extension one way or another, and that he isn't bothered about criticism from the PM.
    Wasn't there a specific date in the motion that passed last week? Unless May's deal is agreed before 20th March then the requested delay will be longer than June. Presumably they can't be held to that but it will make the EU summit (even) more difficult.
    Was it before the 20th or by the 20th? Because the latter could be read as by the 'end of' 20th, and has implications, gods forbid, for MV4 (you know they want MV4 - why give in on MV3 when another will happen?)
    You're right; it's 'by' the 20th, but if they aren't voting on Tuesday then that leaves.... Wednesday!
    I'm more concerned they do vote Tuesday, then try to vote again on Wednesday!
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    Also, in a weird way now I would have thought MV3 is in a few ways sort of a free hit for May. The next steps are already laid out whether it passes or not. She has shrugged off two huge defeats on it already without there really being any change in anything. If they have it again and she gets the majority yet lower (which seems likely even if it doesn't pass), even if it's still, say, 100, she can point to forward progress even if it's insignificant, and if she gets it down much more than that it might provide new impetus.

    The only downsides I can think of is the potential risk of the government motion being amended in a way they didn't want it to be, or the desire to hold another MV but a lack of clarity on how many more times they might actually be able to.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited March 2019
    IanB2 said:

    tpfkar said:

    I recon this is as good a 1-6 shot as you'll find. Everyone has a reason for wanting a by-election except her.

    Will be a big grudge match when the by-election comes about though.

    I agree. Especially as we've all had speeding points and the crime is one everyone can relate to and get indignant about.
    I wish people wouldn't say the crime was speeding. It wasn't. The crime was perverting the course of justice.

    I can relate to speeding. I can't relate to perverting the course of justice.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    IanB2 said:

    The number of applications for Irish passports has risen to record levels with almost a quarter of a million requests since January, Ireland’s department of foreign affairs has said.

    Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, said the 230,000 applications represented a 30% increase on the same period last year.

    It puts 2019 on course for the highest level of applications in the history of the country, after a record 860,000 Irish passports issued last year, with around 200,000 coming from the UK.

    Paddys are offering 17/10 that 200k or more UK citizens apply for Irish passport in 2019. Looks a bet to me after that announcement.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    IanB2 said:

    The number of applications for Irish passports has risen to record levels with almost a quarter of a million requests since January, Ireland’s department of foreign affairs has said.

    Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, said the 230,000 applications represented a 30% increase on the same period last year.

    It puts 2019 on course for the highest level of applications in the history of the country, after a record 860,000 Irish passports issued last year, with around 200,000 coming from the UK.

    Happy St Partick's Day!
    Can we have stats on how many of these applicants voted Leave please?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    IanB2 said:

    The number of applications for Irish passports has risen to record levels with almost a quarter of a million requests since January, Ireland’s department of foreign affairs has said.

    Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, said the 230,000 applications represented a 30% increase on the same period last year.

    It puts 2019 on course for the highest level of applications in the history of the country, after a record 860,000 Irish passports issued last year, with around 200,000 coming from the UK.

    Where is this from? Not questioning it, but would be good practice to post links with what appears to be a quotation.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    The GOP trying on the craic for size.

    https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1107314663023353864
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,073
    TudorRose said:

    IanB2 said:

    The number of applications for Irish passports has risen to record levels with almost a quarter of a million requests since January, Ireland’s department of foreign affairs has said.

    Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, said the 230,000 applications represented a 30% increase on the same period last year.

    It puts 2019 on course for the highest level of applications in the history of the country, after a record 860,000 Irish passports issued last year, with around 200,000 coming from the UK.

    Happy St Partick's Day!
    Apparently Leprechauns (and their heritage) are protected by EU directive.
    Yep:

    https://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-legends/carlingford-leprechauns-protected-european-union-are-they-real-007885
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    stodge said:

    IanB2 said:


    The things I took away from his interview were: MV3 may not take place Tuesday unless they get strong signs that enough MPs have switched, Brexit almost certainly won't take place on 29 March since there'll be an extension one way or another, and that he isn't bothered about criticism from the PM.

    Agreed re MV3. I'm less convinced there'll be an extension from the EU if MV3 hasn't happened or it has been defeated. If it's been passed and time is needed to enact legislation, the EU will be accommodating but otherwise they will want to know what May will do with additional time.

    She can, of course, revoke A50 now and, after further time to consider options, re-instigate the A50 process. That makes sense in terms of the national interest, whether it does for the interest of the Conservative Party is a different question.

    No one in the Cabinet cares any more - Rudd, Gauke and others are in open revolt and she simply lacks the authority to do anything. In office but not in power as was mentioned a few days ago.

    Hopefully May will go after a MV3 defeat.
    Sure, although what would actually be any different from having been defeated in the MV2 vote? She's already set out the plan for the net phase if MV3 fails.
    Perhaps the cabinet will finally act before the scorched Earth strategy kicks in
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Such a long petition period. I know why, given how it is conducted, but still, making us wait on that 16% return?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    stodge said:

    IanB2 said:


    The things I took away from his interview were: MV3 may not take place Tuesday unless they get strong signs that enough MPs have switched, Brexit almost certainly won't take place on 29 March since there'll be an extension one way or another, and that he isn't bothered about criticism from the PM.

    Agreed re MV3. I'm less convinced there'll be an extension from the EU if MV3 hasn't happened or it has been defeated. If it's been passed and time is needed to enact legislation, the EU will be accommodating but otherwise they will want to know what May will do with additional time.

    She can, of course, revoke A50 now and, after further time to consider options, re-instigate the A50 process. That makes sense in terms of the national interest, whether it does for the interest of the Conservative Party is a different question.

    No one in the Cabinet cares any more - Rudd, Gauke and others are in open revolt and she simply lacks the authority to do anything. In office but not in power as was mentioned a few days ago.

    Hopefully May will go after a MV3 defeat.
    Sure, although what would actually be any different from having been defeated in the MV2 vote? She's already set out the plan for the net phase if MV3 fails.
    Perhaps the cabinet will finally act before the scorched Earth strategy kicks in
    Any action they take against May at this point will be hugely insincere - they're the only ones who could have prevented her from taking this endless path of repetition, by being brave enough individually and collectively to say enough is enough. They've continuously enabled her can kicking, while leaking that they are unhappy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922

    IanB2 said:

    The number of applications for Irish passports has risen to record levels with almost a quarter of a million requests since January, Ireland’s department of foreign affairs has said.

    Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, said the 230,000 applications represented a 30% increase on the same period last year.

    It puts 2019 on course for the highest level of applications in the history of the country, after a record 860,000 Irish passports issued last year, with around 200,000 coming from the UK.

    Happy St Partick's Day!
    Nobody noticed my deliberate typo!

    St Partick is the patron saint of lesser Glasgow football clubs :lol:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    edited March 2019
    IanB2 said:

    Worcester: Green to Con

    Huh? That seems a very unusual path to take, even for somebody from Worcester. Do you know any more details?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    IanB2 said:

    The number of applications for Irish passports has risen to record levels with almost a quarter of a million requests since January, Ireland’s department of foreign affairs has said.

    Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, said the 230,000 applications represented a 30% increase on the same period last year.

    It puts 2019 on course for the highest level of applications in the history of the country, after a record 860,000 Irish passports issued last year, with around 200,000 coming from the UK.

    Happy St Partick's Day!
    Nobody noticed my deliberate typo!

    St Partick is the patron saint of lesser Glasgow football clubs :lol:
    Here is St. Partick:

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/2D75/production/_90273611_mediaitem90273608.jpg
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    IanB2 said:

    The number of applications for Irish passports has risen to record levels with almost a quarter of a million requests since January, Ireland’s department of foreign affairs has said.

    Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, said the 230,000 applications represented a 30% increase on the same period last year.

    It puts 2019 on course for the highest level of applications in the history of the country, after a record 860,000 Irish passports issued last year, with around 200,000 coming from the UK.

    Happy St Partick's Day!
    Nobody noticed my deliberate typo!

    St Partick is the patron saint of lesser Glasgow football clubs :lol:
    Couldn't you a Ranger better pun than that?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    edited March 2019
    Nigel’s marchers had trouble with the Transporter Bridge.

    https://twitter.com/tees4europe/status/1107272200590163969?s=21
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,402
    I think Tezzie could do with some intervention from St Patrick to drive the ERG snakes out of the Tory Party.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    The number of applications for Irish passports has risen to record levels with almost a quarter of a million requests since January, Ireland’s department of foreign affairs has said.

    Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, said the 230,000 applications represented a 30% increase on the same period last year.

    It puts 2019 on course for the highest level of applications in the history of the country, after a record 860,000 Irish passports issued last year, with around 200,000 coming from the UK.

    Happy St Partick's Day!
    Nobody noticed my deliberate typo!

    St Partick is the patron saint of lesser Glasgow football clubs :lol:
    Couldn't you a Ranger better pun than that?
    Alloa, punsters!
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    I have been deeply affected this week by the news regarding David Steel and his suspension from LibDem membership following his behaviour in 1979 re-Cyril Smith. Whilst I have never been a Liberal, I have always thought of Steel as a genuine 'good' man - in the same way as I rated Charles Kennedy. He seemed to be in politics for the right reasons, and my memory of him stretches back to the late 1960s when as a very young MP he was prominent in the Anti - Apartheid Campaign with others such as Peter Hain. In those days, I often felt he would have fitted in better as a member of the Labour Party. Like Gordon Brown he is a son of the Manse, and I have assumed that his code of ethics would have been largely determined by that background. It has been very difficult for me to come to terms with the fact that such a person could have remained silent when faced with the evidence presented to him of the evil abusive behaviour of Cyril Smith. How could he possibly have placed the political interests of the Liberal Party before the need to provide justice to Smith's victims?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    The number of applications for Irish passports has risen to record levels with almost a quarter of a million requests since January, Ireland’s department of foreign affairs has said.

    Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, said the 230,000 applications represented a 30% increase on the same period last year.

    It puts 2019 on course for the highest level of applications in the history of the country, after a record 860,000 Irish passports issued last year, with around 200,000 coming from the UK.

    Happy St Partick's Day!
    Nobody noticed my deliberate typo!

    St Partick is the patron saint of lesser Glasgow football clubs :lol:
    Couldn't you a Ranger better pun than that?
    Alloa, punsters!
    I'll give you first Hibs on any puns I don't want. I hope Thistle do.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Nigel’s marchers had trouble with the Transporter Bridge.

    https://twitter.com/tees4europe/status/1107272200590163969?s=21

    On the thread it says the bridge is always closed on Sundays. Not much local knowledge in evidence.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    stodge said:

    IanB2 said:


    The things I took away from his interview were: MV3 may not take place Tuesday unless they get strong signs that enough MPs have switched, Brexit almost certainly won't take place on 29 March since there'll be an extension one way or another, and that he isn't bothered about criticism from the PM.

    Agreed re MV3. I'm less convinced there'll be an extension from the EU if MV3 hasn't happened or it has been defeated. If it's been passed and time is needed to enact legislation, the EU will be accommodating but otherwise they will want to know what May will do with additional time.

    She can, of course, revoke A50 now and, after further time to consider options, re-instigate the A50 process. That makes sense in terms of the national interest, whether it does for the interest of the Conservative Party is a different question.

    No one in the Cabinet cares any more - Rudd, Gauke and others are in open revolt and she simply lacks the authority to do anything. In office but not in power as was mentioned a few days ago.

    Hopefully May will go after a MV3 defeat.
    Sure, although what would actually be any different from having been defeated in the MV2 vote? She's already set out the plan for the net phase if MV3 fails.
    Perhaps the cabinet will finally act before the scorched Earth strategy kicks in
    Any action they take against May at this point will be hugely insincere - they're the only ones who could have prevented her from taking this endless path of repetition, by being brave enough individually and collectively to say enough is enough. They've continuously enabled her can kicking, while leaking that they are unhappy.
    It’s never too late to do the right thing. I bet even they had no idea how far May would take it.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Part 2
    Beyond that, it has also stirred an brought back to the surface an ongoing torment relating to my own schooldays. From 1965 I attended a very strict Boys Grammar School in Pembrokeshire. The Headmaster - to whom I was distantly related -held his position from 1958 - 1978 when the school became a Comprehensive. He was by nature explosive, hot tempered and very impatient. He made regular use of corporal punishment, and I am aware that an incident occurred in early 1962 when a boy was so severely punished that his legs were made to bleed. His parents took the matter to the national press and received an apology.To be clear, I was never a victim and my own relationship was benign and sometimes vaguely amicable.
    Much more recently I joined Facebook and became a member of the Group related to my old school.It emerged that the Group had existed since circa 2008 and I proceeded to read all the earlier contributions. In due course , I came across comments such as 'he was a nasty man ' -'feared but not respected' - and several old boys gave accounts of having been made to bleed by him on occasion whilst others stated they remained severely bruised for 3 to 5 weeks following a caning. I am partly legally trained and felt obliged to record my opinion on these episodes. In essence. I suggested that the boys concerned had not been punished but rather physically abused and that the Headmaster had committed Actual Bodily Harm -ABH - as set out in the Offences against the Person Act 1861. I fully understood that Corporal Punishment remained lawful in State Schools until Autumn 1987 - but Headmasters had never been free to do as they likedl. Chastisement had to be reasonable - and what was described went way beyond that! My comments set off a lively set of exchanges. I did receive a fair bit of support but also encountered opposition. Matters became quite heated , and I was eventually barred from membership after my suggestion that some were seeking to 'cover up' the Headmaster's misdeeds in the same way that the BBC had sought to 'cover up' the activities of Jimmy Saville et al.
    The affair has affected my family relationships too. I have a female cousin - half a generation my senior - who shared my distant relationship to the Headmaster , but who knew him socially much better and was his secretary for his final two years. She is also a former Mayoress of the town - her husband having been Mayor in 1981/82 - and was later Clerk to the Community Council. She sent me a message on Facebook to the effect that she was appalled by my comments and asked me not to visit her when next in the area. I view her as part of the Local Establishment content to cover up such unwelcome details.
    Going back to David Steel, I feel I have taken the other path to him - in that I have sought to put empathy for the victims before personal expediency. I do as though - Am I missing something here? Am I wrong? Very happy to receive comments - however critical or damning!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,774
    justin124 said:

    I have been deeply affected this week by the news regarding David Steel and his suspension from LibDem membership following his behaviour in 1979 re-Cyril Smith. Whilst I have never been a Liberal, I have always thought of Steel as a genuine 'good' man - in the same way as I rated Charles Kennedy. He seemed to be in politics for the right reasons, and my memory of him stretches back to the late 1960s when as a very young MP he was prominent in the Anti - Apartheid Campaign with others such as Peter Hain. In those days, I often felt he would have fitted in better as a member of the Labour Party. Like Gordon Brown he is a son of the Manse, and I have assumed that his code of ethics would have been largely determined by that background. It has been very difficult for me to come to terms with the fact that such a person could have remained silent when faced with the evidence presented to him of the evil abusive behaviour of Cyril Smith. How could he possibly have placed the political interests of the Liberal Party before the need to provide justice to Smith's victims?

    Maybe he thought Smith's crimes were all in the past.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    The number of applications for Irish passports has risen to record levels with almost a quarter of a million requests since January, Ireland’s department of foreign affairs has said.

    Simon Coveney, the Irish foreign minister, said the 230,000 applications represented a 30% increase on the same period last year.

    It puts 2019 on course for the highest level of applications in the history of the country, after a record 860,000 Irish passports issued last year, with around 200,000 coming from the UK.

    Happy St Partick's Day!
    Nobody noticed my deliberate typo!

    St Partick is the patron saint of lesser Glasgow football clubs :lol:
    Couldn't you a Ranger better pun than that?
    Alloa, punsters!
    Its academicals isn't it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:

    I have been deeply affected this week by the news regarding David Steel and his suspension from LibDem membership following his behaviour in 1979 re-Cyril Smith. Whilst I have never been a Liberal, I have always thought of Steel as a genuine 'good' man - in the same way as I rated Charles Kennedy. He seemed to be in politics for the right reasons, and my memory of him stretches back to the late 1960s when as a very young MP he was prominent in the Anti - Apartheid Campaign with others such as Peter Hain. In those days, I often felt he would have fitted in better as a member of the Labour Party. Like Gordon Brown he is a son of the Manse, and I have assumed that his code of ethics would have been largely determined by that background. It has been very difficult for me to come to terms with the fact that such a person could have remained silent when faced with the evidence presented to him of the evil abusive behaviour of Cyril Smith. How could he possibly have placed the political interests of the Liberal Party before the need to provide justice to Smith's victims?

    Maybe he thought Smith's crimes were all in the past.
    I'm afraid it's more likely he simply didn't care much, terrible though that sounds. Which unfortunately was true of very many powerful and influential people down to the 1990s. That was how Saville, Smith, Beck, Bain et al could get away with what they did.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:

    I have been deeply affected this week by the news regarding David Steel and his suspension from LibDem membership following his behaviour in 1979 re-Cyril Smith. Whilst I have never been a Liberal, I have always thought of Steel as a genuine 'good' man - in the same way as I rated Charles Kennedy. He seemed to be in politics for the right reasons, and my memory of him stretches back to the late 1960s when as a very young MP he was prominent in the Anti - Apartheid Campaign with others such as Peter Hain. In those days, I often felt he would have fitted in better as a member of the Labour Party. Like Gordon Brown he is a son of the Manse, and I have assumed that his code of ethics would have been largely determined by that background. It has been very difficult for me to come to terms with the fact that such a person could have remained silent when faced with the evidence presented to him of the evil abusive behaviour of Cyril Smith. How could he possibly have placed the political interests of the Liberal Party before the need to provide justice to Smith's victims?

    Maybe he thought Smith's crimes were all in the past.
    I'm afraid it's more likely he simply didn't care much, terrible though that sounds. Which unfortunately was true of very many powerful and influential people down to the 1990s. That was how Saville, Smith, Beck, Bain et al could get away with what they did.
    Maybe - but to me Steel always came across as someone who did care about injustice. Perhaps I was naive.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Worcester: Green to Con

    Huh? That seems a very unusual path to take, even for somebody from Worcester. Do you know any more details?
    Seems to be related to anti-semitism.

    https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/17488067.worcester-councillor-quits-green-party-over-anti-semitism-and-joins-conservatives/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    justin124 said:

    Part 2
    *snip*
    Much more recently I joined Facebook and became a member of the Group related to my old school.It emerged that the Group had existed since circa 2008 and I proceeded to read all the earlier contributions. In due course , I came across comments such as 'he was a nasty man ' -'feared but not respected' - and several old boys gave accounts of having been made to bleed by him on occasion whilst others stated they remained severely bruised for 3 to 5 weeks following a caning. I am partly legally trained and felt obliged to record my opinion on these episodes. In essence. I suggested that the boys concerned had not been punished but rather physically abused and that the Headmaster had committed Actual Bodily Harm -ABH - as set out in the Offences against the Person Act 1861. I fully understood that Corporal Punishment remained lawful in State Schools until Autumn 1987 - but Headmasters had never been free to do as they likedl. Chastisement had to be reasonable - and what was described went way beyond that! My comments set off a lively set of exchanges. I did receive a fair bit of support but also encountered opposition. Matters became quite heated , and I was eventually barred from membership after my suggestion that some were seeking to 'cover up' the Headmaster's misdeeds in the same way that the BBC had sought to 'cover up' the activities of Jimmy Saville et al.
    The affair has affected my family relationships too. I have a female cousin - half a generation my senior - who shared my distant relationship to the Headmaster , but who knew him socially much better and was his secretary for his final two years. She is also a former Mayoress of the town - her husband having been Mayor in 1981/82 - and was later Clerk to the Community Council. She sent me a message on Facebook to the effect that she was appalled by my comments and asked me not to visit her when next in the area. I view her as part of the Local Establishment content to cover up such unwelcome details.
    Going back to David Steel, I feel I have taken the other path to him - in that I have sought to put empathy for the victims before personal expediency. I do as though - Am I missing something here? Am I wrong? Very happy to receive comments - however critical or damning!

    That you did the right thing gets my vote. Such people get to continue their abuse through their greatest asset: silence. They are aided by those who cannot or will not confront truth. Making people revisit their own complicity gives them a problem - not you.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    edited March 2019
    justin124 said:

    Part 2
    Beyond that, it has also stirred an brought back to the surface an ongoing torment relating to my own schooldays. From 1965 I attended a very strict Boys Grammar School in Pembrokeshire. The Headmaster - to whom I was distantly related -held his position from 1958 - 1978 when the school became a Comprehensive. He was by nature explosive, hot tempered and very impatient. He made regular use of corporal punishment, and I am aware that an incident occurred in early 1962 when a boy was so severely punished that his legs were made to bleed. His parents took the matter to the national press and received an apology.To be clear, I was never a victim and my own relationship was benign and sometimes vaguely amicable.

    snip to fit

    The affair has affected my family relationships too. I have a female cousin - half a generation my senior - who shared my distant relationship to the Headmaster , but who knew him socially much better and was his secretary for his final two years. She is also a former Mayoress of the town - her husband having been Mayor in 1981/82 - and was later Clerk to the Community Council. She sent me a message on Facebook to the effect that she was appalled by my comments and asked me not to visit her when next in the area. I view her as part of the Local Establishment content to cover up such unwelcome details.
    Going back to David Steel, I feel I have taken the other path to him - in that I have sought to put empathy for the victims before personal expediency. I do as though - Am I missing something here? Am I wrong? Very happy to receive comments - however critical or damning!

    Must have been difficult to share this. For what it is worth I think you did the right thing, but always hard when family are involved, even indirectly.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    justin124 said:

    I have been deeply affected this week by the news regarding David Steel and his suspension from LibDem membership following his behaviour in 1979 re-Cyril Smith. Whilst I have never been a Liberal, I have always thought of Steel as a genuine 'good' man - in the same way as I rated Charles Kennedy. He seemed to be in politics for the right reasons, and my memory of him stretches back to the late 1960s when as a very young MP he was prominent in the Anti - Apartheid Campaign with others such as Peter Hain. In those days, I often felt he would have fitted in better as a member of the Labour Party. Like Gordon Brown he is a son of the Manse, and I have assumed that his code of ethics would have been largely determined by that background. It has been very difficult for me to come to terms with the fact that such a person could have remained silent when faced with the evidence presented to him of the evil abusive behaviour of Cyril Smith. How could he possibly have placed the political interests of the Liberal Party before the need to provide justice to Smith's victims?

    In the way that lots of people place the interests of the group to which they belong above the interests of victims, of justice, of their conscience. Whistleblowers, people who act as Good Samaritans, who don't simply pass by on the other side of the road are fewer than you might imagine. It is much easier to do nothing, to assume that it is not your responsibility, that others are acting or that it is all old news, it is too difficult etc etc than do something.

    There is little honourable about it but is a very common human reaction. Standing by while evil happens is, I am sorry to say, the default in most humans. Heroes, those who speak up, who act, who march towards the sound of gunfire (metaphorically) rather than away from it are rare beasts. Courage - whether moral or physical - is admired because it is rare.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:

    I have been deeply affected this week by the news regarding David Steel and his suspension from LibDem membership following his behaviour in 1979 re-Cyril Smith. Whilst I have never been a Liberal, I have always thought of Steel as a genuine 'good' man - in the same way as I rated Charles Kennedy. He seemed to be in politics for the right reasons, and my memory of him stretches back to the late 1960s when as a very young MP he was prominent in the Anti - Apartheid Campaign with others such as Peter Hain. In those days, I often felt he would have fitted in better as a member of the Labour Party. Like Gordon Brown he is a son of the Manse, and I have assumed that his code of ethics would have been largely determined by that background. It has been very difficult for me to come to terms with the fact that such a person could have remained silent when faced with the evidence presented to him of the evil abusive behaviour of Cyril Smith. How could he possibly have placed the political interests of the Liberal Party before the need to provide justice to Smith's victims?

    Maybe he thought Smith's crimes were all in the past.
    I'm afraid it's more likely he simply didn't care much, terrible though that sounds. Which unfortunately was true of very many powerful and influential people down to the 1990s. That was how Saville, Smith, Beck, Bain et al could get away with what they did.
    Maybe - but to me Steel always came across as someone who did care about injustice. Perhaps I was naive.
    He may have cared about injustice on his terms, and been more energised about some types of injustice than others. Remember, Tatchell was (for example) a supporter of PIE in the 1970s, something that to his eternal credit, he now admits was a dreadful error. It wasn't so far out of the mainstream as we would like to think, and as it should have been.

    Most likely he didn't consider it serious enough to take further. Hodge and Corbyn stand accused of similar lack of rigour. So do Thatcher, Whitelaw, many bishops, the governors of your school...

    Clearly, they were terribly wrong. But it wasn't something very unusual. It's one reason why there has been such a build up of cases now people feel freer to speak out and we are more willing to listen.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Worcester: Green to Con

    Huh? That seems a very unusual path to take, even for somebody from Worcester. Do you know any more details?
    Seems to be related to anti-semitism.

    https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/17488067.worcester-councillor-quits-green-party-over-anti-semitism-and-joins-conservatives/
    Thank you. Interesting.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    justin124 said:

    Part 2
    Beyond that, it has also stirred an brought back to the surface an ongoing torment relating to my own schooldays. From 1965 I attended a very strict Boys Grammar School in Pembrokeshire. The Headmaster - to whom I was distantly related -held his position from 1958 - 1978 when the school became a Comprehensive. He was by nature explosive, hot tempered and very impatient. He made regular use of corporal punishment, and I am aware that an incident occurred in early 1962 when a boy was so severely punished that his legs were made to bleed. His parents took the matter to the national press and received an apology.To be clear, I was never a victim and my own relationship was benign and sometimes vaguely amicable.

    snip to fit

    The affair has affected my family relationships too. I have a female cousin - half a generation my senior - who shared my distant relationship to the Headmaster , but who knew him socially much better and was his secretary for his final two years. She is also a former Mayoress of the town - her husband having been Mayor in 1981/82 - and was later Clerk to the Community Council. She sent me a message on Facebook to the effect that she was appalled by my comments and asked me not to visit her when next in the area. I view her as part of the Local Establishment content to cover up such unwelcome details.
    Going back to David Steel, I feel I have taken the other path to him - in that I have sought to put empathy for the victims before personal expediency. I do as though - Am I missing something here? Am I wrong? Very happy to receive comments - however critical or damning!

    Must have been difficult to share this. For what it is worth I think you did the right thing, but always hard when family are involved, even indirectly.
    I would agree with that. What it does also show is when you get this kind of crap for supporting the victims, how much harder it is for them to speak out to start with.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    justin124 said:

    Part 2
    Beyond that, it has also stirred an brought back to the surface an ongoing torment relating to my own schooldays. From 1965 I attended a very strict Boys Grammar School in Pembrokeshire. The Headmaster - to whom I was distantly related -held his position from 1958 - 1978 when the school became a Comprehensive. He was by nature explosive, hot tempered and very impatient. He made regular use of corporal punishment, and I am aware that an incident occurred in early 1962 when a boy was so severely punished that his legs were made to bleed. His parents took the matter to the national press and received an apology.
    [Snipped for length]
    My comments set off a lively set of exchanges. I did receive a fair bit of support but also encountered opposition. Matters became quite heated , and I was eventually barred from membership after my suggestion that some were seeking to 'cover up' the Headmaster's misdeeds in the same way that the BBC had sought to 'cover up' the activities of Jimmy Saville et al.
    The affair has affected my family relationships too. I have a female cousin - half a generation my senior - who shared my distant relationship to the Headmaster , but who knew him socially much better and was his secretary for his final two years. She is also a former Mayoress of the town - her husband having been Mayor in 1981/82 - and was later Clerk to the Community Council. She sent me a message on Facebook to the effect that she was appalled by my comments and asked me not to visit her when next in the area. I view her as part of the Local Establishment content to cover up such unwelcome details.
    Going back to David Steel, I feel I have taken the other path to him - in that I have sought to put empathy for the victims before personal expediency. I do as though - Am I missing something here? Am I wrong? Very happy to receive comments - however critical or damning!

    You are not wrong in speaking as you found. (Though obviously I cannot comment on the details of your case.). But you have learnt that the price for that is that some who think differently, who prefer not to know or who have a different experience may shun you. People cannot bear very much bad news and the reaction is often to shoot the messenger rather than listen to what they do not want to hear.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    edited March 2019
    justin124 said:

    Part 2 snipped for length

    Got to say Justin I think you were completely right. Personally I never had a problem with the idea or practice of corporeal punishment. I was both caned and slippered at school and understood the reasons behind it. That said I also understand why it was eventually banned. But what you describe goes way beyond that and a man who clearly had control issues and committed such acts of violence on kids deserves to be exposed.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_P said:
    Reading that, I think we have passed the point where saying that a second referendum would be undemocratic sounded a bit counter-intuitive. It now makes you sound completely unhinged.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Part 2 snipped for length

    Got to say Justin I think you were completely right. Personally I never had a problem with the idea or practice of corporeal punishment. I was both caned and slippered at school and understood the reasons behind it. That said I also understand why it was eventually banned. But what you describe goes way beyond that and a man who clearly had control issues and committed such acts of violence on kids deserves to be exposed.
    Thanks for that. The guy passed away in 2003, and has led some to make the point that he cannot defend himself - to which I reply ditto Jimmy Saville, Cyril Smith et al.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,774
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    Reading that, I think we have passed the point where saying that a second referendum would be undemocratic sounded a bit counter-intuitive. It now makes you sound completely unhinged.
    Yougov's poll for The Times, OTOH, found opposition to a 2nd referendum at 52/38%. I suppose it depends on the wording.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,774

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    Even a lot of the grassroots are concluding that the WA is better than no Brexit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
  • Theresa May is like the knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail who loses his arms and legs in a duel and calls it a draw, the Dutch prime minister has said.

    Mark Rutte, who appeared visibly irritated last week at the failure of MPs to pass the Brexit deal, admitted feeling “angry” at the impasse in Westminster.

    He said his frustration was focused on the posturing of those seeking to make party political points during a major national crisis but praised May’s “incredible” resilience in the face of repeated knock-backs in the House of Commons.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/17/dutch-pm-compares-theresa-may-to-monty-python-limbless-knight
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
    I just wanted to chip in.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
    I just wanted to chip in.
    Yeah but in a half-baked way!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
    I just wanted to chip in.
    Yeah but in a half-baked way!
    I was only seeking to make a new pun. Did I scrape by?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
    I just wanted to chip in.
    I have skin in this game.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
    I just wanted to chip in.
    I have skin in this game.
    I'll get my jacket!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
    I just wanted to chip in.
    I have skin in this game.
    Your a salt upon our punning game will not succeed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
    I just wanted to chip in.
    I have skin in this game.
    Your a salt upon our punning game will not succeed.
    Really? I'll Smash it out the park.....
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Sean_F said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    Even a lot of the grassroots are concluding that the WA is better than no Brexit.
    Yes, even though I'm in a London constituency I can see the mood among my WhatsApp group has changed from against the WA to in favour in the last week or so. A few were won over by the bad faith concessions from the EU and loads were won over by Parliament voting down no deal, they feel the default option has become no brexit.

    Additionally, it seems to finally have dawned on these idiots that the WA is temporary and if the EU tries to make it permanent against our will we now have recourse to exit.

    I really think that the PM has been awful with the messaging, too many people (MPs included) believe that the WA is the end state.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
    I just wanted to chip in.
    I have skin in this game.
    Your a salt upon our punning game will not succeed.
    Really? I'll Smash it out the park.....
    Another bad pun to grain at.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
    I just wanted to chip in.
    I have skin in this game.
    Your a salt upon our punning game will not succeed.
    Really? I'll Smash it out the park.....
    Another bad pun to grain at.
    Tuber 'etter up you're game if you want the last pun! (Pretty damned smug about that one)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
    I just wanted to chip in.
    I have skin in this game.
    Your a salt upon our punning game will not succeed.
    Really? I'll Smash it out the park.....
    Another bad pun to grain at.
    When I say smash it, I mean I'll gnocchi't out the park
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
    I just wanted to chip in.
    I have skin in this game.
    Your a salt upon our punning game will not succeed.
    Really? I'll Smash it out the park.....
    Another bad pun to grain at.
    Tuber 'etter up you're game if you want the last pun! (Pretty damned smug about that one)
    You mayo have the upper hand for a minute, but I'll be back in a minute or tu, now.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
    I just wanted to chip in.
    I have skin in this game.
    Your a salt upon our punning game will not succeed.
    Really? I'll Smash it out the park.....
    Another bad pun to grain at.
    Tuber 'etter up you're game if you want the last pun! (Pretty damned smug about that one)
    You mayo have the upper hand for a minute, but I'll be back in a minute or tu, now.
    Referee! Clear eggy foul!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Moreover it won’t be 75. It will be a smaller number next time. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson have painted themselves into a corner.

    David Davis jumped out earlier. He, and perhaps Esther McVey, now look better placed.
    I would prefer to vote for a random potato that David Davis. In fact I'd try to sneak around and vote twice.

    Why potato? What have you got against them that you compare them to David Davis?
    I humbly apologies to all potatoes.
    Enough of your floury compliments, sir!
    You're talking a charlotte of nonsense tonight!
    I just wanted to chip in.
    I have skin in this game.
    Your a salt upon our punning game will not succeed.
    Really? I'll Smash it out the park.....
    Another bad pun to grain at.
    Don't let that de terre you.
This discussion has been closed.