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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » For Politicalbetting’s 15th anniversary today – a special cart

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited March 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » For Politicalbetting’s 15th anniversary today – a special cartoon from Marf

Today PB celebrates it’s 15th birthday,  making it, I’d suggest, just about the longest surviving major political blog in the UK.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Congratulations!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Happy birthday PB :o:D:o
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    PS: Can we have the smiling Gordons back?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    Congratulations PB and well done OGH and all who keep it on the road
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    WavyDavyWavyDavy Posts: 1
    Happy Birthday PB, I enjoy lurking here!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    WavyDavy said:

    Happy Birthday PB, I enjoy lurking here!

    Welcome to commenting, Wavy!
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    dotsdots Posts: 615
    Happy birthday PB. 🙃
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    oldpoliticsoldpolitics Posts: 455
    Congratulations. I remember the great days of the 2004 London Mayoral election. Punters thought a poll was a poll was a poll, so a tidy profit could be had backing Livingstone on (whatever, Mori and Harris days) and Norris on (Maybe ICM and YouGov) days, I forget which polls had which house effect, but it was sufficient.
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Congrats. I think I stumbled across PB at the end of that year, for the US elections.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,602
    From another long lurker (we are many) congratulations on your anniversary.
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    JosephGJosephG Posts: 29
    edited March 2019
    Congratulations! I have posted only a handful of times but have looked at PB - and spent too much time reading the comments - most days since the US elections in 2004.
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    Congratulations. This site is great. I enjoy all the contributions even by people I don't agree with. Not being an echo chamber makes it more rewarding and interesting.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    TimS said:

    From another long lurker (we are many) congratulations on your anniversary.

    They are all coming out of the woodwork tonight. :p
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    AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,597
    edited March 2019
    Happy Birthday, and thanks for all the solid tips over the years.

    I still recall backing Galloway in the Bradford by-election at ridiculous odds early on, and making the most money I had ever collected on a single bet.

    The night of the Glasgow East by-election, when the SNP nicked a hitherto unwinnable seat on the recount, was fun too.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Congratulations OGH and Robert! And very much agree with:

    The site has been greatly helped by a TSE, my deputy, and a team of really excellent contributors who are providing political commentary not seen in the MSM. Thanks to all of them.

    Even the dullest threads would not go amiss in the MSM and contributions from Mr Meeks, Mr Herdson & Cyclefree (to name but three, there are others) routinely offer more insightful analysis and better writing than to be found elsewhere.

    In addition, although we often disagree profoundly on whats best for the country, the vast majority of posters contribute constructively and without rancour - well done too!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Congratulations OGH and Robert! And very much agree with:

    The site has been greatly helped by a TSE, my deputy, and a team of really excellent contributors who are providing political commentary not seen in the MSM. Thanks to all of them.

    Even the dullest threads would not go amiss in the MSM and contributions from Mr Meeks, Mr Herdson & Cyclefree (to name but three, there are others) routinely offer more insightful analysis and better writing than to be found elsewhere.

    In addition, although we often disagree profoundly on whats best for the country, the vast majority of posters contribute constructively and without rancour - well done too!

    Yes, a big thanks to all those above the line and below the line.
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Congratulations! I am raising a virtual pint of Smithson and Greaves to the continued success of this site!
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Congratulations and happy birthday.

    I found my way here (originally lurking mostly) a couple of years later via Anthony Well's UK Polling Report blog and won my first political bets thanks to the tips on Obama and Boris for London Mayor.

    Its quite remarkable to think about how much has changed and occured in the last 15 years but I find this site to give better coverage than almost anywhere else. This site's coverage of election nights even is more detailed and quicker than the BBC or anything else can manage.

    Take a bow, you should all be very proud of what you've created here. Thank you and well done.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    It's getting almost no national coverage, and it is nearly 45 years ago - but the Inquests into the Birmingham Pub Bombings have been underway:

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/all-about/birmingham-pub-bombings
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    NEW YORK/SEATTLE (Reuters) - Much like tapping the brake pedal in a car to disengage cruise control, a sharp tug on the controls of older models of Boeing Co’s 737 used to shut off an automatic trim system that keeps the plane flying level, giving the pilot control.

    But Boeing disabled the “yoke jerk” function when it brought out the 737 MAX, the latest version of its top-selling jet - and many pilots were unaware of the change, aviation experts told Reuters.

    The difference may help explain why pilots struggled to keep their aircraft climbing after takeoff on two fatal 737 MAX flights less than five months apart that killed 346 people.


    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethiopia-airplane-controls-explainer-idUSKCN1R322M
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    Congratulations on hitting 15 years. :) I've followed and posted here since sometime in 2004 (under previous IDs).

    Back in 2004 I was a moderate (though solid) Conservative voter in my late 20s... over these 15 years I've transitioned (via becoming a floating voter) through to my present status as an active member of my local Liberal Democrat branch in my mid 40s. Although national events would have taken me on this political journey anyway; I don't hesitate to credit the discussions here with helping in some small way to refine and modify my outlook. :)
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    Happy bidet, pb. Been with you for most of the journey.
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    RobCLRobCL Posts: 23
    Also want to echo my congratulations. As an avid lurker since the end of 2004 and very rare poster I realise I get out more than I contribute! Election nights have never been the same since - even in the bad old days of ‘404 page not found’ as the server struggled under the load. Thank you to you all and to those no longer physically or virtually with us.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Happy Birthday. I remember the terror in posting here for the first time in the run up to 2005. I hid behind other names at the start.

    I continue to appreciate the friendly debate that uniquely spans all points of view without all the usual vitriol you find elsewhere on the net.

    Thanks guys!
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Thanks, Mike, RCS, TSE and to all the contributors and article writers.
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    Thank you to OGH and all the team for launching and maintaining such a great blog.
    Even if I contribute rarely, and mostly on non-UK politics, lurking on this site has been part of my daily routine since the 2005 GE campaign, and I very rarely spent more than a week without checking it.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Felicitations, Mike !
    And many thanks to you, the able sidekicks and esteemed regulars.

    And everyone on here for making it one of the more civilised places to visit.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Happy Birthday and congratulations to the site. I've only been a regular for six years but lurked for several years prior. It was something to read during long council meetings,

    And on the same day surely the Revoke petition will become the largest ever on the Downing Street petitions site? Already nearly 3.9 million.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,610

    Thank you to OGH and all the team for launching and maintaining such a great blog.
    Even if I contribute rarely, and mostly on non-UK politics, lurking on this site has been part of my daily routine since the 2005 GE campaign, and I very rarely spent more than a week without checking it.

    One of my biggest wins was from your early tips on Macron. Cheers!

    Many Happy returns PB! I starting as a lurker in 2008, I think.
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    My biggest ever betting win was £11,000 the day Obama won the Presidency. It's fair to say I owe most of that to Mike and the Site, and much else besides. Thank you Mike, congratulations to you, the Site and all who post here. You have been a big part of my life these past 14 years.*

    (*My first ever post was exactly one year after the Site began.)
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    What meaningful vote ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47675261

    With her usual decisiveness, May suggests that it... might not happen.

    It is a good chart, though.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Congratulations Mike. You have created something special, unique even. My life is richer for it.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    My biggest ever betting win was £11,000 the day Obama won the Presidency. It's fair to say I owe most of that to Mike and the Site, and much else besides. Thank you Mike, congratulations to you, the Site and all who post here. You have been a big part of my life these past 14 years.*

    (*My first ever post was exactly one year after the Site began.)

    I think I first came across the site around the time of Obama’s appearance, and his nomination and subsequent election remain my biggest wins, too.

    Fingers crossed for Biden/Harris.... :smile:

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Nigelb said:

    What meaningful vote ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47675261

    With her usual decisiveness, May suggests that it... might not happen.

    It is a good chart, though.
    Its difficult to keep up, but I think the idea is that the MV will be held (if at all) after all the indicative votes have been had, in all their contradictory glory. 'Single market with no FoM or ECJ oversight and ability to strike trade deals'.....
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Nigelb said:

    What meaningful vote ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47675261

    With her usual decisiveness, May suggests that it... might not happen.

    It is a good chart, though.
    Its difficult to keep up, but I think the idea is that the MV will be held (if at all) after all the indicative votes have been had, in all their contradictory glory. 'Single market with no FoM or ECJ oversight and ability to strike trade deals'.....
    The cynical might think the idea is a last attempt at can kicking.

    I guess we’ll have to see what Parliament makes of the idea - or if they can even agree on what they think.

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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    I wonder how many kipper 'Independence day' parties next Friday are being cancelled?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    IanB2 said:

    I wonder how many kipper 'Independence day' parties next Friday are being cancelled?

    They'll just rename them "Great Betrayal Day" instead and get drunker & angrier.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What meaningful vote ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47675261

    With her usual decisiveness, May suggests that it... might not happen.

    It is a good chart, though.
    Its difficult to keep up, but I think the idea is that the MV will be held (if at all) after all the indicative votes have been had, in all their contradictory glory. 'Single market with no FoM or ECJ oversight and ability to strike trade deals'.....
    The cynical might think the idea is a last attempt at can kicking.

    I guess we’ll have to see what Parliament makes of the idea - or if they can even agree on what they think.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1109184506089623552
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    On a day when life and politics doesn't seem as good it might be, it's very good to b alble to celebtate something.
    Many congratulations, Mr S, and the team. And many thanks to all the contributors who provide real insights into 'what the world thinks".
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Happy Birthday PB!
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    Happy birthday, PB. And thanks to OGH and all his little elfs for the work they do.

    As is often said, many of the threaders are better than those that appear in the MSM.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    I have just remembered there is going to be a smorgasbord of smugness snaking its way through the streets of London today.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    edited March 2019

    Nigelb said:

    What meaningful vote ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47675261

    With her usual decisiveness, May suggests that it... might not happen.

    It is a good chart, though.
    Its difficult to keep up, but I think the idea is that the MV will be held (if at all) after all the indicative votes have been had, in all their contradictory glory. 'Single market with no FoM or ECJ oversight and ability to strike trade deals'.....
    Before the summit it looked clear that MV3, originally hinted for Monday, had pushed back to Wednesday. After the summit there now needs to be a programme motion noting the outcome on Monday. I believe Cooper/Letwin is up Monday as an amendment, and appears likely to carry. That earmarks Wednesday for debate on the options. There were some signs MV3 might have then dropped into Tuesday, until May finally began to wonder whether it is worth having at all. As she went to bed she was starting to consider whether to run a government sponsored options process to avoid losing control to Parliament. If so, it is unclear whether Letwin then falls or whether trust in the PM is so low that MPs would still rather try and lead the process themselves. Either way, May's deal is one of the indicative options so MV3 may reappear afterwards, depending.

    I think that's where we are?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Congratulations to OGH and all the people involved in PB. Happy Birthday to one of the best sites on the Internet!
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What meaningful vote ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47675261

    With her usual decisiveness, May suggests that it... might not happen.

    It is a good chart, though.
    Its difficult to keep up, but I think the idea is that the MV will be held (if at all) after all the indicative votes have been had, in all their contradictory glory. 'Single market with no FoM or ECJ oversight and ability to strike trade deals'.....
    The cynical might think the idea is a last attempt at can kicking.

    I guess we’ll have to see what Parliament makes of the idea - or if they can even agree on what they think.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1109184506089623552
    I suspect the WA agreement is dead, because no one now trusts May, at all.
    So tinkering with the political declaration is very likely just displacement activity, designed to burn up,a few more days.

    The real question is whether Parliament can manifest the will to do anything about it, or as is perhaps more likely, remain a collection of impotent factions.

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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What meaningful vote ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47675261

    With her usual decisiveness, May suggests that it... might not happen.

    It is a good chart, though.
    Its difficult to keep up, but I think the idea is that the MV will be held (if at all) after all the indicative votes have been had, in all their contradictory glory. 'Single market with no FoM or ECJ oversight and ability to strike trade deals'.....
    The cynical might think the idea is a last attempt at can kicking.

    I guess we’ll have to see what Parliament makes of the idea - or if they can even agree on what they think.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1109184506089623552
    I suspect the WA agreement is dead, because no one now trusts May, at all.
    So tinkering with the political declaration is very likely just displacement activity, designed to burn up,a few more days.

    The real question is whether Parliament can manifest the will to do anything about it, or as is perhaps more likely, remain a collection of impotent factions.

    The object is to come up with enough of an agreement to a plan sufficient to justify the nine month extension that May almost asked for and the EU almost granted this week. As HY has said, making a permanent CU part of the destination ought to command a majority and immediately resolves the backstop problem. That appears to be the easiest way out of the impasse. But there are others.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    Happy birthday. Great site. Many thanks to Mike and all contributors for making it what it is.
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    Thanks Mike, this site has become my go to place for political news and debate
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What meaningful vote ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47675261

    With her usual decisiveness, May suggests that it... might not happen.

    It is a good chart, though.
    Its difficult to keep up, but I think the idea is that the MV will be held (if at all) after all the indicative votes have been had, in all their contradictory glory. 'Single market with no FoM or ECJ oversight and ability to strike trade deals'.....
    The cynical might think the idea is a last attempt at can kicking.

    I guess we’ll have to see what Parliament makes of the idea - or if they can even agree on what they think.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1109184506089623552
    I suspect the WA agreement is dead, because no one now trusts May, at all.
    So tinkering with the political declaration is very likely just displacement activity, designed to burn up,a few more days.

    The real question is whether Parliament can manifest the will to do anything about it, or as is perhaps more likely, remain a collection of impotent factions.

    The object is to come up with enough of an agreement to a plan sufficient to justify the nine month extension that May almost asked for and the EU almost granted this week. As HY has said, making a permanent CU part of the destination ought to command a majority and immediately resolves the backstop problem. That appears to be the easiest way out of the impasse. But there are others.
    Pwemanent CU; rule takers, not makers. Not as good by any means as membership, but might mean we can get back in properly before too long!
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What meaningful vote ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47675261

    With her usual decisiveness, May suggests that it... might not happen.

    It is a good chart, though.
    Its difficult to keep up, but I think the idea is that the MV will be held (if at all) after all the indicative votes have been had, in all their contradictory glory. 'Single market with no FoM or ECJ oversight and ability to strike trade deals'.....
    The cynical might think the idea is a last attempt at can kicking.

    I guess we’ll have to see what Parliament makes of the idea - or if they can even agree on what they think.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1109184506089623552
    I suspect the WA agreement is dead, because no one now trusts May, at all.
    So tinkering with the political declaration is very likely just displacement activity, designed to burn up,a few more days.

    The real question is whether Parliament can manifest the will to do anything about it, or as is perhaps more likely, remain a collection of impotent factions.

    The WA isn't dead if you want a deal of any kind and at any time with the EU. It's the necessary precondition. What that deal is actually going to be is up for grabs. Theresa May has spent the last two years insisting it isn't.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Good morning, everyone.

    Congrats to Mr. Smithson (and his trusty assistants). I have to admit, I thought the blog was even older than that (I joined back in 2007).
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,329
    Congrats guys. A fantastic achievement! My sincere thanks to you all for running such a wonderful (and unique) site for so long.

    Long may it continue!
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    At least London doesn't need to call in the army for today's big demo, unlike Paris.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,329
    That's not a fair reflection of May's deal, because it reflects the temporary transition state and not the end state. If it did you could tick off free movement, financial contributions and independence in services. The "follows EU rules" piece would be far more nuanced, and it would also allow trade deals too.

    Again, most people who hate it are over simplifying and then confusing the two.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,329
    Jonathan said:

    Happy Birthday. I remember the terror in posting here for the first time in the run up to 2005. I hid behind other names at the start.

    I continue to appreciate the friendly debate that uniquely spans all points of view without all the usual vitriol you find elsewhere on the net.

    Thanks guys!

    Me too, I was terrified.

    I also started in 2005 in the run up to GE2005 and Blair's 3rd victory.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    IanB2 said:

    At least London doesn't need to call in the army for today's big demo, unlike Paris.

    One of the defining factors of the debate, heated though it has been on all sides, is that’s it’s been generally peaceful. There’s been the occasional violent nutter in the news, but it’s been the exception rather than the rule. Most other countries aren’t capable of such a polarising political debate about the way forward for their country, without resorting to much more widespread violence.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,329
    IanB2 said:

    At least London doesn't need to call in the army for today's big demo, unlike Paris.

    Indeed, we have a lot to be grateful for living in the UK.

    It's a good place.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    15 years old !!!!! .... is that all .... JackW is 127 .... :smiley:

    Fifteen - PB - the spotty adolescent of the political world. At times full of angst, hormones and regular betting wet dreams. Intense friendships are formed, first love blossoms and party political onanism must be curbed. Yes we've had it all :

    Fantastic tips, exclusive reports, robust debate, banning orders, rescinded orders, wonderful threads and that's just TSE's wardrobe !! .... Some of the old and bold have gone to the great betting site in the sky and OGH clings to the memory of folicular resplendence whilst counting his winnings. Pineapple pizza is the staple diet of the masses and yet PB cruises through the years.

    All hail Admiral Mike Smithson and God bless the good ship PB and all who sail in her.

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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    At least London doesn't need to call in the army for today's big demo, unlike Paris.

    One of the defining factors of the debate, heated though it has been on all sides, is that’s it’s been generally peaceful. There’s been the occasional violent nutter in the news, but it’s been the exception rather than the rule. Most other countries aren’t capable of such a polarising political debate about the way forward for their country, without resorting to much more widespread violence.
    Even yesterday's civil disobedience by leavers seems to have fallen flat. There are some funny stories around about tiny handfuls of leaver motorists failing to create traffic jams.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What meaningful vote ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47675261

    With her usual decisiveness, May suggests that it... might not happen.

    It is a good chart, though.
    Its difficult to keep up, but I think the idea is that the MV will be held (if at all) after all the indicative votes have been had, in all their contradictory glory. 'Single market with no FoM or ECJ oversight and ability to strike trade deals'.....
    The cynical might think the idea is a last attempt at can kicking.

    I guess we’ll have to see what Parliament makes of the idea - or if they can even agree on what they think.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1109184506089623552
    I suspect the WA agreement is dead, because no one now trusts May, at all.
    So tinkering with the political declaration is very likely just displacement activity, designed to burn up,a few more days.

    The real question is whether Parliament can manifest the will to do anything about it, or as is perhaps more likely, remain a collection of impotent factions.

    The WA isn't dead if you want a deal of any kind and at any time with the EU. It's the necessary precondition. What that deal is actually going to be is up for grabs. Theresa May has spent the last two years insisting it isn't.
    That depends. Some destinations would force a re-write (for example permanent CU removes all the backstop stuff), and there is also the option of not having a transition period and simply going for a two year extension followed by exit. If we do elect a new batch of MEPs that latter may make more sense.
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,810
    edited March 2019
    A Happy Birthday. I looked back on that first Ken thread, unfortunately the Comments have been removed by now - would've been good to see Pulpstar or somesuch third up. And good luck for the big PB party in central London today, shame I can't make it..
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    JosephGJosephG Posts: 29
    I struggle to understand why the MPs are fussing so much over the WA. It does not preclude any of the suggested forms of subsequent relationship, be it Norway, Canada, a super-FTA etc. Indeed, the CorbynCustomsUnion suggestion is entirely consistent with the WA. None of those future relationships can be negotiated until we have left the EU, and we can do that by either crashing out (which saves £39bn but involves immediate introduction of tariffs etc.) or pursuant to the WA (which gives us time to prepare for tariffs, non-tariff barriers etc, whilst simultaneously negotiating a future relationship that may avoid these).

    If so, what is the point of these indicative votes? Surely it boils down to deal or no deal (and the only point of the latter is if you are concerned that we will be unable to negotiate a suitable future relationship and be locked into the backstop).

    Or am I missing something?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I have just remembered there is going to be a smorgasbord of smugness snaking its way through the streets of London today.

    A bit harsh on home bound England football fans but then again think of Scots returning from Kazakhstan !!
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    JosephG said:

    I struggle to understand why the MPs are fussing so much over the WA. It does not preclude any of the suggested forms of subsequent relationship, be it Norway, Canada, a super-FTA etc. Indeed, the CorbynCustomsUnion suggestion is entirely consistent with the WA. None of those future relationships can be negotiated until we have left the EU, and we can do that by either crashing out (which saves £39bn but involves immediate introduction of tariffs etc.) or pursuant to the WA (which gives us time to prepare for tariffs, non-tariff barriers etc, whilst simultaneously negotiating a future relationship that may avoid these).

    If so, what is the point of these indicative votes? Surely it boils down to deal or no deal (and the only point of the latter is if you are concerned that we will be unable to negotiate a suitable future relationship and be locked into the backstop).

    Or am I missing something?

    Most obviously, the WA is crafted as transition toward being outside the CU and EEA, whereas a lot of MPs would like to remain within one, other or both.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Ratty!
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,329
    JosephG said:

    I struggle to understand why the MPs are fussing so much over the WA. It does not preclude any of the suggested forms of subsequent relationship, be it Norway, Canada, a super-FTA etc. Indeed, the CorbynCustomsUnion suggestion is entirely consistent with the WA. None of those future relationships can be negotiated until we have left the EU, and we can do that by either crashing out (which saves £39bn but involves immediate introduction of tariffs etc.) or pursuant to the WA (which gives us time to prepare for tariffs, non-tariff barriers etc, whilst simultaneously negotiating a future relationship that may avoid these).

    If so, what is the point of these indicative votes? Surely it boils down to deal or no deal (and the only point of the latter is if you are concerned that we will be unable to negotiate a suitable future relationship and be locked into the backstop).

    Or am I missing something?

    You're not.

    They don't understand it.
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    _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Happy birthday PB

    A great, great site.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    JackW said:

    15 years old !!!!! .... is that all .... JackW is 127 .... :smiley:

    Fifteen - PB - the spotty adolescent of the political world. At times full of angst, hormones and regular betting wet dreams. Intense friendships are formed, first love blossoms and party political onanism must be curbed. Yes we've had it all :

    Fantastic tips, exclusive reports, robust debate, banning orders, rescinded orders, wonderful threads and that's just TSE's wardrobe !! .... Some of the old and bold have gone to the great betting site in the sky and OGH clings to the memory of folicular resplendence whilst counting his winnings. Pineapple pizza is the staple diet of the masses and yet PB cruises through the years.

    All hail Admiral Mike Smithson and God bless the good ship PB and all who sail in her.

    Good to see you back Mr W. Trust all is well with you and yours.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942
    I am not sure the table is entirely accurate. It states that EFTA membership prevents a US trade deal (if we actually wanted one) and I don't believe that is the case.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Nigelb said:

    What meaningful vote ?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47675261

    With her usual decisiveness, May suggests that it... might not happen.

    It is a good chart, though.
    Agreed

    To be critical, I wouldn’t have included “transition” in there (although its positioning does highlight it’s a gradual disengagement)

    But the chart does make very clear that it’s FoM which is the decisive question.

    (That’s not necessarily the same as immigration, of course, which is the biggest frustration. Addressing FoM without having had to change our treasured non-contributory system would have lanced the boil IMV)
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,612
    Congratulations to PB on 15 glorious years!

    I must have started posting about 10 years ago - if I recall correctly my first post referred to 'Gideonomics'.

    I've still never placed a political bet, however.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I’m not sure that the party guests Marf has chosen for Mike would make for a fun party.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    From my cousin on Facebook:


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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942
    Congratulations Mike. Not sure when I turned up here but I think it was around 2006. It remains the only place on the internet to come to get informed news and debate and of course a damn good argument. And it is a lot of fun.

    I am getting an immense, and perhaps slightly perverse, pleasure out of the current political turmoil and PB has to be my site of choice to feed my habit.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    I guess the practical problem is that TMay spent last week blatantly reneging on the promise she made to them the week before, so if opposition MPs were to say, "OK, we'll pass the WA but only if you then give us the changes we need to the political relationship", TMay is obviously just going to pocket their votes then going back to ignoring them and doing whatever she needs to avoid upsetting the ERG and DUP too much.

    For the same reason I don't really see how you do another form of Brexit without first removing TMay and replacing her with someone the opposition can trust. It's not obvious who this would be. But I suppose once you've found one unicorn in the form of a non-terrible brexit, you can follow it home and see if there's another unicorn there in the form of a Tory trusted by Labour MPs.

    This is what makes the Kyle-Wilson approach such a great way out of the treacle, because the factions can pass binding legislation then leave it to the voters to decide who wins, which avoids the need for them to trust each other.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited March 2019
    Congratulations Mike! A Day to remember....

    ....remembering the days of the 10 Gordons through the changing Gold Standards to those who are no longer with us and those who have chosen rebrands....... through the evenings of the Nighthawks to the nights of the lagersheds to the humour and (sometimes) rancour of the contributors to the genius of their predictions......

    Mike's 50/1 on Obama when the politerati had never heard of him.

    How some of us laughed

    .... The Hurdson post that told us it wasn't going to happn for Mrs May while the lady herself was putting champagne on ice....

    .....We weren't laughing anymore...

    Someone asked me the other day why no one had thought about the Northern Ireland problem before.....

    ....."But they have" I said. PB has been talking about nothing else since before the referendum".

    For keeping us all better informed than anyone else many thanks PB
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,610

    JackW said:

    15 years old !!!!! .... is that all .... JackW is 127 .... :smiley:

    Fifteen - PB - the spotty adolescent of the political world. At times full of angst, hormones and regular betting wet dreams. Intense friendships are formed, first love blossoms and party political onanism must be curbed. Yes we've had it all :

    Fantastic tips, exclusive reports, robust debate, banning orders, rescinded orders, wonderful threads and that's just TSE's wardrobe !! .... Some of the old and bold have gone to the great betting site in the sky and OGH clings to the memory of folicular resplendence whilst counting his winnings. Pineapple pizza is the staple diet of the masses and yet PB cruises through the years.

    All hail Admiral Mike Smithson and God bless the good ship PB and all who sail in her.

    Good to see you back Mr W. Trust all is well with you and yours.
    How's your back? I hope my colleagues treated you well.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    15 years old !!!!! .... is that all .... JackW is 127 .... :smiley:

    Fifteen - PB - the spotty adolescent of the political world. At times full of angst, hormones and regular betting wet dreams. Intense friendships are formed, first love blossoms and party political onanism must be curbed. Yes we've had it all :

    Fantastic tips, exclusive reports, robust debate, banning orders, rescinded orders, wonderful threads and that's just TSE's wardrobe !! .... Some of the old and bold have gone to the great betting site in the sky and OGH clings to the memory of folicular resplendence whilst counting his winnings. Pineapple pizza is the staple diet of the masses and yet PB cruises through the years.

    All hail Admiral Mike Smithson and God bless the good ship PB and all who sail in her.

    Good to see you back Mr W. Trust all is well with you and yours.
    I hope to outlive Scotland's participation in the European Championship Qualifying ..... best book somewhere for the wake soonest !! .... :sunglasses:
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Foxy said:

    JackW said:

    15 years old !!!!! .... is that all .... JackW is 127 .... :smiley:

    Fifteen - PB - the spotty adolescent of the political world. At times full of angst, hormones and regular betting wet dreams. Intense friendships are formed, first love blossoms and party political onanism must be curbed. Yes we've had it all :

    Fantastic tips, exclusive reports, robust debate, banning orders, rescinded orders, wonderful threads and that's just TSE's wardrobe !! .... Some of the old and bold have gone to the great betting site in the sky and OGH clings to the memory of folicular resplendence whilst counting his winnings. Pineapple pizza is the staple diet of the masses and yet PB cruises through the years.

    All hail Admiral Mike Smithson and God bless the good ship PB and all who sail in her.

    Good to see you back Mr W. Trust all is well with you and yours.
    How's your back? I hope my colleagues treated you well.
    Back to the future ....
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,932
    JackW said:

    I have just remembered there is going to be a smorgasbord of smugness snaking its way through the streets of London today.

    A bit harsh on home bound England football fans but then again think of Scots returning from Kazakhstan !!
    Jack, just watch us thrash San Marino tomorrow and top our group.
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,628
    Congratulations Mike and the team.

    Probably a good point to remember those who are no longer here to post. I remember fondly the posts of SBS or was it SDS (sorry) who posts were insightful and with humour, Mark Senior who was forthright and dedicated and Plato who certainly livened up the site. There will be more I have forgotten, or we just don't know about.

    I joined just about at the beginning, but can't remember how I found out about the site. I was a very regular poster then, but for many years after just became a lurker.

    My fondest memories are the laughs. You are all so entertaining and write so well, but specifically getting a smile from JackW for a joke ( a true tribute), having an argument with SeanT about the existence of God and not being insulted (I guess that was a failure) and being subtlety outed by someone who worked out who I was and having never been able to work out who he/she is.

    Keep it up everyone.

    Now off to my very first protest march at the age of 64.
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    Congratulations!

    However, I do think Guido was up earlier. Samizdata and Harry’s Place also.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. kjh, must admit, I was thinking of them as well (it was Mr. SBS).
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,932
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    15 years old !!!!! .... is that all .... JackW is 127 .... :smiley:

    Fifteen - PB - the spotty adolescent of the political world. At times full of angst, hormones and regular betting wet dreams. Intense friendships are formed, first love blossoms and party political onanism must be curbed. Yes we've had it all :

    Fantastic tips, exclusive reports, robust debate, banning orders, rescinded orders, wonderful threads and that's just TSE's wardrobe !! .... Some of the old and bold have gone to the great betting site in the sky and OGH clings to the memory of folicular resplendence whilst counting his winnings. Pineapple pizza is the staple diet of the masses and yet PB cruises through the years.

    All hail Admiral Mike Smithson and God bless the good ship PB and all who sail in her.

    Good to see you back Mr W. Trust all is well with you and yours.
    I hope to outlive Scotland's participation in the European Championship Qualifying ..... best book somewhere for the wake soonest !! .... :sunglasses:
    Two days will see that then Jack
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Foxy said:

    JackW said:

    15 years old !!!!! .... is that all .... JackW is 127 .... :smiley:

    Fifteen - PB - the spotty adolescent of the political world. At times full of angst, hormones and regular betting wet dreams. Intense friendships are formed, first love blossoms and party political onanism must be curbed. Yes we've had it all :

    Fantastic tips, exclusive reports, robust debate, banning orders, rescinded orders, wonderful threads and that's just TSE's wardrobe !! .... Some of the old and bold have gone to the great betting site in the sky and OGH clings to the memory of folicular resplendence whilst counting his winnings. Pineapple pizza is the staple diet of the masses and yet PB cruises through the years.

    All hail Admiral Mike Smithson and God bless the good ship PB and all who sail in her.

    Good to see you back Mr W. Trust all is well with you and yours.
    How's your back? I hope my colleagues treated you well.
    I'm not entirely sure, Dr F, that things have gone as well as they should. Nor, very apologetically, is the surgeon. However the last thing I recall before the anaesthetic took effect was a cheerful conversation with the very pleasant anaethestist about someone for whom she'd been SHO, and hadn't liked, and whom I had known as a distinctly eccentric requirer of pharmacy services when we'd all worked at the same hospital.
    The nursing and other staff were very good though.
    The situation was complicated by Mrs C developing gall bladder problems the night before my operation, which mean that we were both in hospital together, albeit in different wards. My elder son has been dashing about between Essex and Kent. Fortunately he's in a postion where he can either work from home or take some time off.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    King Cole, sorry to hear that (about both yourself and your wife). Hope you both get well soon.
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,971
    I started my sporadic posting in the run-up to the 2005 election (under a different name). I was still a member of the Labour Party then (left 2010), out campaigning for Linda Gilroy in Plymouth Sutton. Will possibly become actively involved again, if TIG gets up and running.

    Heartfelt thanks to Mike and Robert for the site, and to the many insightful contributors. I'd just single out one whom I always read: DavidL, whose consistently intelligent contributions enable me to understand positions (Tory, Leave) that I do not share.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    Foxy said:

    JackW said:

    15 years old !!!!! .... is that all .... JackW is 127 .... :smiley:

    Fifteen - PB - the spotty adolescent of the political world. At times full of angst, hormones and regular betting wet dreams. Intense friendships are formed, first love blossoms and party political onanism must be curbed. Yes we've had it all :

    Fantastic tips, exclusive reports, robust debate, banning orders, rescinded orders, wonderful threads and that's just TSE's wardrobe !! .... Some of the old and bold have gone to the great betting site in the sky and OGH clings to the memory of folicular resplendence whilst counting his winnings. Pineapple pizza is the staple diet of the masses and yet PB cruises through the years.

    All hail Admiral Mike Smithson and God bless the good ship PB and all who sail in her.

    Good to see you back Mr W. Trust all is well with you and yours.
    How's your back? I hope my colleagues treated you well.
    I'm not entirely sure, Dr F, that things have gone as well as they should. Nor, very apologetically, is the surgeon. However the last thing I recall before the anaesthetic took effect was a cheerful conversation with the very pleasant anaethestist about someone for whom she'd been SHO, and hadn't liked, and whom I had known as a distinctly eccentric requirer of pharmacy services when we'd all worked at the same hospital.
    The nursing and other staff were very good though.
    The situation was complicated by Mrs C developing gall bladder problems the night before my operation, which mean that we were both in hospital together, albeit in different wards. My elder son has been dashing about between Essex and Kent. Fortunately he's in a postion where he can either work from home or take some time off.
    Tough times. Hope you both get well soon - not a nice situation to be in. Hope your son bears up as well.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    I have just remembered there is going to be a smorgasbord of smugness snaking its way through the streets of London today.

    A bit harsh on home bound England football fans but then again think of Scots returning from Kazakhstan !!
    Jack, just watch us thrash San Marino tomorrow and top our group.
    Are we playing the San Marino Under 13 second XI ?!?
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Congratulations!

    However, I do think Guido was up earlier. Samizdata and Harry’s Place also.

    Guido started a few months after pb.
    Guido Fawkes’ blog (as it was then styled) was started on September 4, 2004.
    https://order-order.com/about/
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,610

    Foxy said:

    JackW said:

    15 years old !!!!! .... is that all .... JackW is 127 .... :smiley:

    Fifteen - PB - the spotty adolescent of the political world. At times full of angst, hormones and regular betting wet dreams. Intense friendships are formed, first love blossoms and party political onanism must be curbed. Yes we've had it all :

    Fantastic tips, exclusive reports, robust debate, banning orders, rescinded orders, wonderful threads and that's just TSE's wardrobe !! .... Some of the old and bold have gone to the great betting site in the sky and OGH clings to the memory of folicular resplendence whilst counting his winnings. Pineapple pizza is the staple diet of the masses and yet PB cruises through the years.

    All hail Admiral Mike Smithson and God bless the good ship PB and all who sail in her.

    Good to see you back Mr W. Trust all is well with you and yours.
    How's your back? I hope my colleagues treated you well.
    I'm not entirely sure, Dr F, that things have gone as well as they should. Nor, very apologetically, is the surgeon. However the last thing I recall before the anaesthetic took effect was a cheerful conversation with the very pleasant anaethestist about someone for whom she'd been SHO, and hadn't liked, and whom I had known as a distinctly eccentric requirer of pharmacy services when we'd all worked at the same hospital.
    The nursing and other staff were very good though.
    The situation was complicated by Mrs C developing gall bladder problems the night before my operation, which mean that we were both in hospital together, albeit in different wards. My elder son has been dashing about between Essex and Kent. Fortunately he's in a postion where he can either work from home or take some time off.
    Oh dear, I am sorry to hear that. Backs and gallbladders are not minor at any age. Hope you are both in the pink swiftly.
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    _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Carlotta

    Regarding Matthew Goodwin, the responses to his post say it all. But we have been here umpteen times and you really should have grasped it by now.

    Compromise.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    JackW said:

    malcolmg said:

    JackW said:

    I have just remembered there is going to be a smorgasbord of smugness snaking its way through the streets of London today.

    A bit harsh on home bound England football fans but then again think of Scots returning from Kazakhstan !!
    Jack, just watch us thrash San Marino tomorrow and top our group.
    Are we playing the San Marino Under 13 second XI ?!?
    San Marino has 22 boys under the age of 13?
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    May I add my birthday congratulations to all those involved over the years with this wonderful site
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    May I add my birthday congratulations to all those involved over the years with this wonderful site

    Should I add mine? I've only been here since April 2007...
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I'm not entirely sure, Dr F, that things have gone as well as they should. Nor, very apologetically, is the surgeon. However the last thing I recall before the anaesthetic took effect was a cheerful conversation with the very pleasant anaethestist about someone for whom she'd been SHO, and hadn't liked, and whom I had known as a distinctly eccentric requirer of pharmacy services when we'd all worked at the same hospital.
    The nursing and other staff were very good though.
    The situation was complicated by Mrs C developing gall bladder problems the night before my operation, which mean that we were both in hospital together, albeit in different wards. My elder son has been dashing about between Essex and Kent. Fortunately he's in a postion where he can either work from home or take some time off.

    Best wishes to you and Mrs OKC.

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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    JackW said:

    15 years old !!!!! .... is that all .... JackW is 127 .... :smiley:

    Fifteen - PB - the spotty adolescent of the political world. At times full of angst, hormones and regular betting wet dreams. Intense friendships are formed, first love blossoms and party political onanism must be curbed. Yes we've had it all :

    Fantastic tips, exclusive reports, robust debate, banning orders, rescinded orders, wonderful threads and that's just TSE's wardrobe !! .... Some of the old and bold have gone to the great betting site in the sky and OGH clings to the memory of folicular resplendence whilst counting his winnings. Pineapple pizza is the staple diet of the masses and yet PB cruises through the years.

    All hail Admiral Mike Smithson and God bless the good ship PB and all who sail in her.

    Good to see you back Mr W. Trust all is well with you and yours.
    How's your back? I hope my colleagues treated you well.
    I'm not entirely sure, Dr F, that things have gone as well as they should. Nor, very apologetically, is the surgeon. However the last thing I recall before the anaesthetic took effect was a cheerful conversation with the very pleasant anaethestist about someone for whom she'd been SHO, and hadn't liked, and whom I had known as a distinctly eccentric requirer of pharmacy services when we'd all worked at the same hospital.
    The nursing and other staff were very good though.
    The situation was complicated by Mrs C developing gall bladder problems the night before my operation, which mean that we were both in hospital together, albeit in different wards. My elder son has been dashing about between Essex and Kent. Fortunately he's in a postion where he can either work from home or take some time off.
    Tough times. Hope you both get well soon - not a nice situation to be in. Hope your son bears up as well.
    Thanks; might yet need to call on other family members for help.
This discussion has been closed.