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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Johnson edges back to favourite on the day that TMay’s future

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited March 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Johnson edges back to favourite on the day that TMay’s future could be decided

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    Gove's decline is interesting.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    God help us all.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    edited March 2019
    A dramatic day in store, with our PM to be pressed by her own MPs to commit to resign at a meeting starting at 5pm and then those same MPs voting on her deal in an indicative vote starting at 7pm.

    Tory Brexiters want May resignation date in order to back deal

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/26/tory-brexiters-want-may-resignation-date-in-order-to-back-deal

    One backbencher said: “She can’t stand up there and just say the same thing about backing her deal.” Good luck with that one.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    Tories don't want May anyway near the trade discussions with the EU. They don't want her anywhere near the top job when they have to face an election. At the moment, the choice of going for a General Election is not a weapon in the arsenal. Once there is a Deal, that has to be brought back into play very quickly (subject always to the FTPA, although Corbyn is unlikely to want to be tagged with "frit" at not going along with his stated aim of an election).

    That means May has to go, and fast. The only question is whether she stays on whilst her successor is elected. If Gove stepped up and said he would take over as interm PM, but would not be standing for leader himself (letting it be known he'd quite like to be, say, moving to Number 11 afterwards), that would add very considerable pressure on May to leave pronto.

    As to who takes over full time, however..... That will partly depend on whether the members are only offered two candidates. I would prefer that range to be broadened. The membership are already going to be pissed off at watching MPs stitching things up between them. Give them a decent choice of candidates, covering both experience and youth, Remain and Brexit. That way it may not be the shoo-in for Boris that some fear.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    As usual, Boris is petrified that he might be outflanked by an even bigger nutter, and is watching and waiting to see if Raab switches to back the deal before he himself goes public.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Gove's decline is interesting.

    Not really. Gove was the subject of some press puff-pieces and then the likely beneficiary of the coup attempt last week. That made Gove favourite but the coup fizzled out so Gove has drifted. If you look at the graph, Gove is still shorter than before this happened.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115

    Gove's decline is interesting.

    Not really. Gove was the subject of some press puff-pieces and then the likely beneficiary of the coup attempt last week. That made Gove favourite but the coup fizzled out so Gove has drifted. If you look at the graph, Gove is still shorter than before this happened.
    "Interesting" in that perceived wisdom is to lay the leader in the Tory race.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    Gove's decline is interesting.

    Not really. Gove was the subject of some press puff-pieces and then the likely beneficiary of the coup attempt last week. That made Gove favourite but the coup fizzled out so Gove has drifted. If you look at the graph, Gove is still shorter than before this happened.
    "Interesting" in that perceived wisdom is to lay the leader in the Tory race.
    Given that Gove was associated with the failed coup last week (if not involved, although rumours about his wife were around), laying Gove probably does make sense?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If Peter O’Sullevan were commentating his voice would be getting faster and higher pitched now.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    IanB2 said:

    A dramatic day in store, with our PM to be pressed by her own MPs to commit to resign at a meeting starting at 5pm and then those same MPs voting on her deal in an indicative vote starting at 7pm.

    Is the EU deal part of the Indicatve vote process?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    Tories don't want May anyway near the trade discussions with the EU. They don't want her anywhere near the top job when they have to face an election. At the moment, the choice of going for a General Election is not a weapon in the arsenal. Once there is a Deal, that has to be brought back into play very quickly (subject always to the FTPA, although Corbyn is unlikely to want to be tagged with "frit" at not going along with his stated aim of an election).

    That means May has to go, and fast. The only question is whether she stays on whilst her successor is elected. If Gove stepped up and said he would take over as interm PM, but would not be standing for leader himself (letting it be known he'd quite like to be, say, moving to Number 11 afterwards), that would add very considerable pressure on May to leave pronto.

    As to who takes over full time, however..... That will partly depend on whether the members are only offered two candidates. I would prefer that range to be broadened. The membership are already going to be pissed off at watching MPs stitching things up between them. Give them a decent choice of candidates, covering both experience and youth, Remain and Brexit. That way it may not be the shoo-in for Boris that some fear.

    An interesting analysis from a Tory perspective.

    I am not convinced that going to the country on a platform of wanting to leave the customs union - which is what an election in the timescale you are envisaging would amount to - is the safest ground to fight an election?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    IanB2 said:

    A dramatic day in store, with our PM to be pressed by her own MPs to commit to resign at a meeting starting at 5pm and then those same MPs voting on her deal in an indicative vote starting at 7pm.

    Is the EU deal part of the Indicatve vote process?
    Very good question. The media appears to be assuming so, but I haven't seen it confirmed that anyone has proposed it yet? Tactically the government might benefit from it not being rejected again, but it would be rather strange not to put it forward? There is always a chance it might be least unpopular.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    If Peter O’Sullevan were commentating his voice would be getting faster and higher pitched now.

    Or David Coleman:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnKdFVP3Ezc
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    IanB2 said:

    Gove's decline is interesting.

    Not really. Gove was the subject of some press puff-pieces and then the likely beneficiary of the coup attempt last week. That made Gove favourite but the coup fizzled out so Gove has drifted. If you look at the graph, Gove is still shorter than before this happened.
    "Interesting" in that perceived wisdom is to lay the leader in the Tory race.
    Given that Gove was associated with the failed coup last week (if not involved, although rumours about his wife were around), laying Gove probably does make sense?
    More interesting still is that those associated with the failed coup have likely burnt their bridges with whoever succeeds May. The new leader is going to have a very testing time, addressing not only the trade talks with the EU*, but all manner of pressing issues kept stored up by the May Government's Brexit monomania. The last thing they need is inheriting a bunch of duplicitous bastards. Especially when there is a new crop of up and coming duplicitous bastards, waiting for their shot.

    A number of highly ambitious souls within Cabinet lost out. Their time at the top table will be coming to an end. I do wonder whether some might flounce to the TIGs.

    *This presumes we do actually Brexit. An incoming PM after May has revoked would have far, far bigger worries.....
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    pingping Posts: 3,731
    Test
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    There is no moral difference between Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn. They are both very happy to appease - and to stand shoulder to shoulder with - racists. A general election in which they were the two options to become Prime Minister would be a shaming event for the UK.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    Sounds intriguing! I'm also in France though further south and haven't heard that one. Paris is at is best just now and one of my favourite cities so I can well understand you being distracted by things more interesting than thoughts of Rees Mogg
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    Roger said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    Sounds intriguing! I'm also in France though further south and haven't heard that one. Paris is at is best just now and one of my favourite cities so I can well understand you being distracted by things more interesting than thoughts of Rees Mogg

    It is stunning. The light right now - just after dawn has broken - is extraordinary.
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    pingping Posts: 3,731
    Hello all.

    I wonder if ayone can help me? I’m likely to be missing something blindingly obvious, but...

    These are the betfair rules for “UK to leave the EU by the 29/03/2019?“ market;

    Will the United Kingdom officially leave the European Union on or before the 30/03/2019 - 00:00:00 CET/29/03/2019 - 23:00:00 London Time? For the purposes of this market leaving the EU is defined as the date when the treaties of the EU cease to apply to the UK. Examples of when this might occur include, but are not limited, to: the date specified in a withdrawal agreement between the UK and the EU; the end of the two year negotiating period (29/03/2019) as set out by Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty (or any extension to this time period); or the date of the repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act. If more than one of these events were to occur, this market will be settled on the first of these events to occur. In the case of the two year time period in Article 50 being extended, via a unanimous vote by all EU Member States, we will settle this market on the extended date. This market will settle when the UK leaves the EU even if parts of the UK (e.g. Scotland, Northern Ireland) leave the UK or receive special status within the EU. In the event of any ambiguity over an announcement, Betfair may determine, using its reasonable discretion, how to settle the market based on all the information available to it at the relevant time. Betfair reserves the right to wait for further official announcements before the market is settled.

    Betfair will not be responsible for suspending the market when an official announcement is made. However, Betfair will suspend the market as soon as it becomes aware of an official announcement. Betfair expressly reserves the right to suspend and/or void any and all bets on this market at any time in the event that Betfair is not satisfied (in its absolute discretion) with the certainty of the outcome.

    For clarity if the UK leaves the EU at 30/03/2019 - 00:00:00 CET/29/03/2019 - 23:00:00 London Time, as per the terms of Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, then Yes will be settled as a winner.

    **For purpose of clarification rules updated on the 25/01/2019



    The 29/3/19 date has been extended, right? Is *no* really a 1.01/1.02 shot?
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Roger said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    Sounds intriguing! I'm also in France though further south and haven't heard that one. Paris is at is best just now and one of my favourite cities so I can well understand you being distracted by things more interesting than thoughts of Rees Mogg

    It is stunning. The light right now - just after dawn has broken - is extraordinary.
    I know that look well. I'm jealous though it's nice here too. Which part are you staying in?

    .....and no one's talking about Brexit.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    ping said:

    Hello all.

    I wonder if ayone can help me? I’m likely to be missing something obvious, but...

    These are the betfair rules for “UK to leave the EU by the 29/03/2019?“ market;

    Will the United Kingdom officially leave the European Union on or before the 30/03/2019 - 00:00:00 CET/29/03/2019 - 23:00:00 London Time? For the purposes of this market leaving the EU is defined as the date when the treaties of the EU cease to apply to the UK. Examples of when this might occur include, but are not limited, to: the date specified in a withdrawal agreement between the UK and the EU; the end of the two year negotiating period (29/03/2019) as set out by Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty (or any extension to this time period); or the date of the repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act. If more than one of these events were to occur, this market will be settled on the first of these events to occur. In the case of the two year time period in Article 50 being extended, via a unanimous vote by all EU Member States, we will settle this market on the extended date. This market will settle when the UK leaves the EU even if parts of the UK (e.g. Scotland, Northern Ireland) leave the UK or receive special status within the EU. In the event of any ambiguity over an announcement, Betfair may determine, using its reasonable discretion, how to settle the market based on all the information available to it at the relevant time. Betfair reserves the right to wait for further official announcements before the market is settled.

    Betfair will not be responsible for suspending the market when an official announcement is made. However, Betfair will suspend the market as soon as it becomes aware of an official announcement. Betfair expressly reserves the right to suspend and/or void any and all bets on this market at any time in the event that Betfair is not satisfied (in its absolute discretion) with the certainty of the outcome.

    For clarity if the UK leaves the EU at 30/03/2019 - 00:00:00 CET/29/03/2019 - 23:00:00 London Time, as per the terms of Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, then Yes will be settled as a winner.

    **For purpose of clarification rules updated on the 25/01/2019



    The 29/3/19 date has been extended, right? Is *no* really a 1.01/1.02 shot?

    Most people believe so, but there is a legal argument, which will be played out in the Commons tonight, as to whether our actual exit is governed by UK or EU law. If UK law holds the field (which I would see as the minority position from a strictly legal perspective), both Houses of Parliament need to agree Regulations to change the date. The Commons will do so tonight, but there is a risk with the Lords where curtailing debate is more difficult. If EU law holds the field, the date is already changed.

    A few hard Brexiters are likely to pursue this legal point until the end, which is where the money is coming from for the other side of the bet.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    What a state the Country is in where a buffoon like Boris is favourite
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    pingping Posts: 3,731
    IanB2 said:



    Most people believe so, but there is a legal argument, which will be played out in the Commons tonight, as to whether our actual exit is governed by UK or EU law. If UK law holds the field (which I would see as the minority position from a strictly legal perspective), both Houses of Parliament need to agree Regulations to change the date. The Commons will do so tonight, but there is a risk with the Lords where curtailing debate is more difficult. If EU law holds the field, the date is already changed.

    A few hard Brexiters are likely to pursue this legal point until the end, which is where the money is coming from for the other side of the bet.

    Hmm. :)

    Surely the key bit is ;

    “In the case of the two year time period in Article 50 being extended, via a unanimous vote by all EU Member States, we will settle this market on the extended date.”

    Has that date not already been extended?

    What does bf do with this market on 30/3?
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited March 2019

    What a state the Country is in where a buffoon like Boris is favourite

    You should rejoice.

    The rule is to lay the favourite. By installing him as favourite his failure is all but certain.

    At this stage it is no more than name recognition.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Good morning, everyone.

    As an aside, Boris has been favourite (5, last I checked) on Ladbrokes for a week or two now.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    edited March 2019
    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    Hello all.

    I wonder if ayone can help me? I’m likely to be missing something obvious, but...

    These are the betfair rules for “UK to leave the EU by the 29/03/2019?“ market;

    Will etion) with the certainty of the outcome.

    For clarity if the UK leaves the EU at 30/03/2019 - 00:00:00 CET/29/03/2019 - 23:00:00 London Time, as per the terms of Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, then Yes will be settled as a winner.

    **For purpose of clarification rules updated on the 25/01/2019



    The 29/3/19 date has been extended, right? Is *no* really a 1.01/1.02 shot?

    Most people believe so, but there is a legal argument, which will be played out in the Commons tonight, as to whether our actual exit is governed by UK or EU law. If UK law holds the field (which I would see as the minority position from a strictly legal perspective), both Houses of Parliament need to agree Regulations to change the date. The Commons will do so tonight, but there is a risk with the Lords where curtailing debate is more difficult. If EU law holds the field, the date is already changed.

    A few hard Brexiters are likely to pursue this legal point until the end, which is where the money is coming from for the other side of the bet.
    As a p.s., it is clear that someone has put up a lot of money (for an ordinary person) at long odds that we are indeed leaving on Friday. Regular PB'ers will recall my mentioning this when the extension was announced, in relation to the BFE 'no deal' bet where round lumps of £1000 were repeatedly being placed on the apparently lost side of the bet. If they win they are going to make a LOT of money.

    Leadsom has already said in the Commons that the EU treaty and EU law holds the field and so the date is already changed. The Regulations will sail through the Commons and if you look at the small print of Benn's programme motion you'll see he has taken the trouble to further close off scope for filibuster during today's proceedings.

    The mystery backer's strategy only makes sense if there is a so-far secret plan to filibuster the Regulations in the Lords AND an intent to pursue some sort of legal action on the point. The latter could take ages, so there is a risk I guess that BF may not resolve these markets for quite some time - or a risk that BF pays out early and then faces the exposure.

    Alternatively and more likely, of course, the mystery backer is a Brexiter carried away with his all-too-clever strategy and has just wasted thousands of £.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    edited March 2019
    ping said:

    IanB2 said:



    Most people believe so, but there is a legal argument, which will be played out in the Commons tonight, as to whether our actual exit is governed by UK or EU law. If UK law holds the field (which I would see as the minority position from a strictly legal perspective), both Houses of Parliament need to agree Regulations to change the date. The Commons will do so tonight, but there is a risk with the Lords where curtailing debate is more difficult. If EU law holds the field, the date is already changed.

    A few hard Brexiters are likely to pursue this legal point until the end, which is where the money is coming from for the other side of the bet.

    Hmm. :)

    Surely the key bit is ;

    “In the case of the two year time period in Article 50 being extended, via a unanimous vote by all EU Member States, we will settle this market on the extended date.”

    Has that date not already been extended?

    What does bf do with this market on 30/3?
    See my further post. The government and most lawyers believe the date is already extended. Somewhere there is a mystery wealthy Brexiter with a different view. DYOR and then decide whether to take some of his money.

    If the strategy gets put into action, it's going to be big in the news before long. If it doesn't, quite what he or she was up to will always be a mystery.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,419
    edited March 2019
    Keep on laying Boris like one of his many mistresses.

    Even if he does stand I do not expect him to make the final two.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057
    https://twitter.com/labourwhips/status/1110788247100239872

    In some cases the same MPs have signed mutually incompatible options.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    edited March 2019

    https://twitter.com/labourwhips/status/1110788247100239872

    In some cases the same MPs have signed mutually incompatible options.

    See the Brexiter amendments scrubbing the indicative options and trying to introduce a never ending debate. Relevant to the discussion below, although they will fall.

    And, to answer Carlotta's point, the government has NOT put its own deal into the mix.

    Some of the options are options, some are unicorns, and some aren't options but assertions (such as the well supported one simply restating that we are leaving the EU). Bercow is in an invidious position sorting out that lot.
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    mr-claypolemr-claypole Posts: 217
    I don't know if this has been mentioned but there is an Alistair Campbell/George Osborne interview on GQ is very interesting

    https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/george-osborne-theresa-may-interview



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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    Sounds intriguing! I'm also in France though further south and haven't heard that one. Paris is at is best just now and one of my favourite cities so I can well understand you being distracted by things more interesting than thoughts of Rees Mogg

    It is stunning. The light right now - just after dawn has broken - is extraordinary.
    I know that look well. I'm jealous though it's nice here too. Which part are you staying in?

    .....and no one's talking about Brexit.

    We're round the corner from the Arc de Triomphe on Rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré. We are holding a conference here today and tomorrow. There are a lot of smashed up shop fronts and broken windows - Gilets action!

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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    IanB2 said:

    https://twitter.com/labourwhips/status/1110788247100239872

    In some cases the same MPs have signed mutually incompatible options.

    See the Brexiter amendments scrubbing the indicative options and trying to introduce a never ending debate. Relevant to the discussion below, although they will fall.

    And, to answer Carlotta's point, the government has NOT put its own deal into the mix.

    Some of the options are options, some are unicorns, and some aren't options but assertions (such as the well supported one simply restating that we are leaving the EU). Bercow is in an invidious position sorting out that lot.
    So it looks like May’s plan is for the votes to go ahead on the alternatives, the ample support for softer Brexits will scare the ERG, who will then vote through her deal later this week.

    I still don’t think she has the numbers.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    Sounds intriguing! I'm also in France though further south and haven't heard that one. Paris is at is best just now and one of my favourite cities so I can well understand you being distracted by things more interesting than thoughts of Rees Mogg

    It is stunning. The light right now - just after dawn has broken - is extraordinary.
    I know that look well. I'm jealous though it's nice here too. Which part are you staying in?

    .....and no one's talking about Brexit.

    We're round the corner from the Arc de Triomphe on Rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré. We are holding a conference here today and tomorrow. There are a lot of smashed up shop fronts and broken windows - Gilets action!

    I stayed in a hotel in or very near that street last time in Paris. I can't remember which it was.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    I think the problem is that some are using the accusation as a political weapon

    Unfortunately that muddies the water for when there are real issues that need to be addressed.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    No, it is a thing:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School#Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

    Though it’s entirely possible that Braverman, who is not exactly the sharpest mind, was unaware of the fact.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    It can’t be that bad, Hope Not Hate only described it as “deeply disturbing”
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    So having made much play on how the attorney general’s legal advice was the determining factor in rejecting the WA, MPs might pass the WA after changes are made to the (non legally binding) political declaration?

    Thereby just making themselves look ridiculous for havingtwice overwhelmingly rejected the WA in the first place...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    F1: all the markets for Bahrain are up.

    Ha. Bottas is 3.75 to be fastest qualifier, which is a bit shorter than last time. Hmm. Was going to say I'm not tempted, but Hamilton's evens for pole. A split stake, two-thirds on Hamilton, *might* make sense.

    Hmm. I went to check the stats, and Hamilton got pole in Australia in 2018 by a similar large margin yet the Ferraris beat him in Bahrain qualifying that year. Going to read my old blog posts and see if there's an explicit reason for that.

    Having done so, it seems the Mercedes, in 2018, was just outpaced in Bahrain qualifying. Vettel's just 4.33, value would seem to lie more with Leclerc each way (fifth the odds top 3) at 11, *if* one believes history will repeat itself.

    Mind you, there's 13 on the same basis for him to 'win' first practice.

    I've backed that last one with a tiny stake (14 with boost, incidentally).
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    Sounds intriguing! I'm also in France though further south and haven't heard that one. Paris is at is best just now and one of my favourite cities so I can well understand you being distracted by things more interesting than thoughts of Rees Mogg

    It is stunning. The light right now - just after dawn has broken - is extraordinary.
    I know that look well. I'm jealous though it's nice here too. Which part are you staying in?

    .....and no one's talking about Brexit.

    We're round the corner from the Arc de Triomphe on Rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré. We are holding a conference here today and tomorrow. There are a lot of smashed up shop fronts and broken windows - Gilets action!

    Paris is a shithole.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Walker, easier to point and shout racist than engage with someone/something you dislike. Name calling is simpler than debate.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    Keep on laying Boris like one of his many mistresses.

    Even if he does stand I do not expect him to make the final two.

    Both me personally, and my book, thank you.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    isam said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    It can’t be that bad, Hope Not Hate only described it as “deeply disturbing”
    They're like a modern gestapo, dobbing people into the police and employers if you're guilty of some wrongthink or other on twitter
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    pingping Posts: 3,731
    IanB2 said:

    ping said:

    IanB2 said:



    Most people believe so, but there is a legal argument, which will be played out in the Commons tonight, as to whether our actual exit is governed by UK or EU law. If UK law holds the field (which I would see as the minority position from a strictly legal perspective), both Houses of Parliament need to agree Regulations to change the date. The Commons will do so tonight, but there is a risk with the Lords where curtailing debate is more difficult. If EU law holds the field, the date is already changed.

    A few hard Brexiters are likely to pursue this legal point until the end, which is where the money is coming from for the other side of the bet.

    Hmm. :)

    Surely the key bit is ;

    “In the case of the two year time period in Article 50 being extended, via a unanimous vote by all EU Member States, we will settle this market on the extended date.”

    Has that date not already been extended?

    What does bf do with this market on 30/3?
    See my further post. The government and most lawyers believe the date is already extended. Somewhere there is a mystery wealthy Brexiter with a different view. DYOR and then decide whether to take some of his money.

    If the strategy gets put into action, it's going to be big in the news before long. If it doesn't, quite what he or she was up to will always be a mystery.
    I think I’m reading the rules fundamentally differently to the way you are reading them.

    It reads to me like the bf market date itself has changed with the a50 extension.

    It is no longer “UK to leave the EU by the 29/03/2019?” It’s “UK to leave the EU by the end of the a50 extension?”
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    F1: all the markets for Bahrain are up.

    Ha. Bottas is 3.75 to be fastest qualifier, which is a bit shorter than last time. Hmm. Was going to say I'm not tempted, but Hamilton's evens for pole. A split stake, two-thirds on Hamilton, *might* make sense.

    Hmm. I went to check the stats, and Hamilton got pole in Australia in 2018 by a similar large margin yet the Ferraris beat him in Bahrain qualifying that year. Going to read my old blog posts and see if there's an explicit reason for that.

    Having done so, it seems the Mercedes, in 2018, was just outpaced in Bahrain qualifying. Vettel's just 4.33, value would seem to lie more with Leclerc each way (fifth the odds top 3) at 11, *if* one believes history will repeat itself.

    Mind you, there's 13 on the same basis for him to 'win' first practice.

    I've backed that last one with a tiny stake (14 with boost, incidentally).

    Ferrari are indeed a tempting long odds punt, as it’s quite possible their poor form in Australia was largely tyre related. But Mercedes are rightly favourites.
    If Ferrari are poor again, it’s going to be a fairly boring season.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    alex. said:

    Thereby just making themselves look ridiculous for havingtwice overwhelmingly rejected the WA in the first place...
    That ship sailed long ago.....
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. B, maybe. I imagine Ladbrokes will put up winner without Mercedes type markets if that happens.

    I'll be paying attention to how close Verstappen gets in qualifying. He was a long way off in Australia but very similar on pace (I think he was faster than Hamilton but passing there is difficult even when you don't take your car off-roading).
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    What a state the Country is in where a buffoon like Boris is favourite

    People are betting on Boris as he was in early 2016 and not how he is now in early 2019.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,277
    Interesting that Lidington is only at 3% when he was being talked about as a stand in for May so much at the weekend. Is there a qualification on Betfair that excludes interim or stop gap leaders?

    Personally, I see Lidington as May redux with far too many of the same failings but if the bigger beasts wanted a nominee fall guy who was to hold the reins until this interminable Brexit is concluded (and there's the rub, that could take years yet) he is a possibility.

    The real challenge for the next leader is going to be holding the party together. How do Grieve and JRM remain on the same platform? It is going to need someone who is a very good people person, not an ideologue and not someone who has taken fixed positions. For me that rules out the likes of Gove, Raab and Johnson. It means that we are looking at people who have been more pragmatic such as Hunt and Javid or even, dare I say it, Hammond.

    Depending on how this turns out keeping the Tories together may not be possible or desirable but it seems to me that faced with the threat of PM Corbyn they will want to try. Gove's backing may well be key but I can't see him as the front man.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    It can’t be that bad, Hope Not Hate only described it as “deeply disturbing”
    They're like a modern gestapo, dobbing people into the police and employers if you're guilty of some wrongthink or other on twitter
    Given that even the Trump administration thought it necessary to sack a national security adviser for embracing the conspiracy theory, Hope Not Hate’s description seems a bit more accurate than your rather overwrought description of them.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    edited March 2019
    So we have a lot of amendments to the procedure, mostly from Brexiters (if they force them all to a division that will wreck the debating time), and then as supposed options:

    A - A Brexiter proposal objecting to the whole process and seeking to change SOs to prevent it happening again
    B - No Deal exit on 12 April
    C - May's Deal exit on 22 May but with the UK able unilaterally to leave the backstop
    D - Common Market 2.0
    E - Reaffirm the referendum and commit to leave the EU (doesn't say how or when)
    F - Leave but try to stay in a Customs Union
    G - Revoke if a deal isn't agreed
    H - EFTA and EEA
    I - Only leave with a deal agreed with both Scottish and Welsh devolved bodies
    J - Any deal must include commitment to stay in a Customs Union
    K - Labour's Plan (new WA with customs union, alignment to SM, alignment on rights etc)
    L - Revoke unless Parliament approves no deal exit
    M - WA subject to confirmatory referendum (Kyle-Wilson)
    N - Malthouse: WA with new agreement on NI backstop
    O - A Brexiter one that looks like a so-called managed no deal if we cant agree a WA
    P - A Brexiter one that looks like no deal but without anything nasty happening please, if we cant agree a WA

    If I were Speaker, I would consider:

    A is out of order;
    C and N are unicorns (and perhaps K also - see below)
    E and I are political posturing;
    G and L are negative not positive choices (although perhaps simply cover for a Revoke preference)

    with the genuine options being B, D, H, F/ J, M and perhaps K provided they already know the EU will agree, and perhaps G/L if you treat them as Revoke after MV3 falls.

    O and P are variants of B intended to ensure that MV3 fails.


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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,277
    alex. said:

    So having made much play on how the attorney general’s legal advice was the determining factor in rejecting the WA, MPs might pass the WA after changes are made to the (non legally binding) political declaration?

    Thereby just making themselves look ridiculous for havingtwice overwhelmingly rejected the WA in the first place...
    Which in fairness is exactly what the AG told them at the time. There are risks in the WA but they are risks that they should take.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.


    How are they going to get 30 million existing cars to have speed limiters fitted. It would take years??
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    DavidL said:

    Interesting that Lidington is only at 3% when he was being talked about as a stand in for May so much at the weekend. Is there a qualification on Betfair that excludes interim or stop gap leaders?

    Personally, I see Lidington as May redux with far too many of the same failings but if the bigger beasts wanted a nominee fall guy who was to hold the reins until this interminable Brexit is concluded (and there's the rub, that could take years yet) he is a possibility.

    The real challenge for the next leader is going to be holding the party together. How do Grieve and JRM remain on the same platform? It is going to need someone who is a very good people person, not an ideologue and not someone who has taken fixed positions. For me that rules out the likes of Gove, Raab and Johnson. It means that we are looking at people who have been more pragmatic such as Hunt and Javid or even, dare I say it, Hammond.

    Depending on how this turns out keeping the Tories together may not be possible or desirable but it seems to me that faced with the threat of PM Corbyn they will want to try. Gove's backing may well be key but I can't see him as the front man.

    I think you dare say Hammond, as an interim. Been thinking the same....
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,289
    edited March 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    According to 5 live this morning not just speed limiters by 2022, but all cars will have to have a black box and ignition techology that detects alcohol and drugs and which will prevent the vehicle starting

    To be voted on by the EU in September but expected to be adopted throughout the EU

    Apparently HMG has promised to follow all EU regulation on cars so brexit will not stop it

    It is also to apply to all commercial vehicles
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Taking back control in a global marketplace is harder than it looks.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.


    How are they going to get 30 million existing cars to have speed limiters fitted. It would take years??
    I think I remember reading that in the U.K., 90% of cars on the road are 7 years old or younger. Within a decade it would be near universal.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    I would never use the term "Cultural Marxism".But only because it means nothing to me....

    (Did it have its roots in Vienna?)
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    Once Msy goes ifJohnson gets to the membership he will win it comfortably, if not and Gove or Raab is the Brexiteer in the final two they will probably win it
  • Options

    Keep on laying Boris like one of his many mistresses.

    Even if he does stand I do not expect him to make the final two.

    Both me personally, and my book, thank you.
    It continues to mystify me that he is so short. What am I missing?
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    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.


    How are they going to get 30 million existing cars to have speed limiters fitted. It would take years??
    Only applies to all new vehicles
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979
    RoyalBlue said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.


    How are they going to get 30 million existing cars to have speed limiters fitted. It would take years??
    I think I remember reading that in the U.K., 90% of cars on the road are 7 years old or younger. Within a decade it would be near universal.
    After seat belts came in it wasn't long before eeryone had them. And, indeed, their use became the norm.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    edited March 2019
    So I'd offer:

    No Deal /
    CM2 /
    EFTA+EEA /
    WA+CU /
    WA+referendum /
    Labour's Deal /
    Revoke

    Seven choices!

    What will Bercow do?!
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,277

    DavidL said:

    Interesting that Lidington is only at 3% when he was being talked about as a stand in for May so much at the weekend. Is there a qualification on Betfair that excludes interim or stop gap leaders?

    Personally, I see Lidington as May redux with far too many of the same failings but if the bigger beasts wanted a nominee fall guy who was to hold the reins until this interminable Brexit is concluded (and there's the rub, that could take years yet) he is a possibility.

    The real challenge for the next leader is going to be holding the party together. How do Grieve and JRM remain on the same platform? It is going to need someone who is a very good people person, not an ideologue and not someone who has taken fixed positions. For me that rules out the likes of Gove, Raab and Johnson. It means that we are looking at people who have been more pragmatic such as Hunt and Javid or even, dare I say it, Hammond.

    Depending on how this turns out keeping the Tories together may not be possible or desirable but it seems to me that faced with the threat of PM Corbyn they will want to try. Gove's backing may well be key but I can't see him as the front man.

    I think you dare say Hammond, as an interim. Been thinking the same....
    He's boring, has a politically tin ear, has no clear vision of what he wants to achieve for the country or the economy, has failed to address major issues such as student and personal debt, has done far too little to encourage investment and yet has the reputation of being "adult" (and not in a sexy way, far from it), sensible and measured. I would be nervous about him leading a GE campaign but its possible.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    RoyalBlue said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.


    How are they going to get 30 million existing cars to have speed limiters fitted. It would take years??
    I think I remember reading that in the U.K., 90% of cars on the road are 7 years old or younger. Within a decade it would be near universal.
    It would help support the price of pre-2022 second hand cars, perhaps.
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    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,277

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    According to 5 live this morning not just speed limiters by 2022, but all cars will have to have a black box and ignition techology that detects alcohol and drugs and which will prevent the vehicle starting

    To be voted on by the EU in September but expected to be adopted throughout the EU

    Apparently HMG has promised to follow all EU regulation on cars so brexit will not stop it

    It is also to apply to all commercial vehicles
    Given the timescale for self driving cars this seems a remarkably silly investment of a lot of money for very little upside over a limited period. The day when you tell the car to bring you home from the pub seems a much better solution.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,995

    RoyalBlue said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.


    How are they going to get 30 million existing cars to have speed limiters fitted. It would take years??
    I think I remember reading that in the U.K., 90% of cars on the road are 7 years old or younger. Within a decade it would be near universal.
    It would help support the price of pre-2022 second hand cars, perhaps.
    Not really. Anybody who cares enough will defeat it via a standalone ECU or reflash of the OEM unit. I know I will!
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    According to 5 live this morning not just speed limiters by 2022, but all cars will have to have a black box and ignition techology that detects alcohol and drugs and which will prevent the vehicle starting

    To be voted on by the EU in September but expected to be adopted throughout the EU

    Apparently HMG has promised to follow all EU regulation on cars so brexit will not stop it

    It is also to apply to all commercial vehicles
    Given the timescale for self driving cars this seems a remarkably silly investment of a lot of money for very little upside over a limited period. The day when you tell the car to bring you home from the pub seems a much better solution.
    Now that, I hasten to add I was told, was much easier with a horse and cart.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    DavidL said:

    Interesting that Lidington is only at 3% when he was being talked about as a stand in for May so much at the weekend. Is there a qualification on Betfair that excludes interim or stop gap leaders?

    Personally, I see Lidington as May redux with far too many of the same failings but if the bigger beasts wanted a nominee fall guy who was to hold the reins until this interminable Brexit is concluded (and there's the rub, that could take years yet) he is a possibility.

    The real challenge for the next leader is going to be holding the party together. How do Grieve and JRM remain on the same platform? It is going to need someone who is a very good people person, not an ideologue and not someone who has taken fixed positions. For me that rules out the likes of Gove, Raab and Johnson. It means that we are looking at people who have been more pragmatic such as Hunt and Javid or even, dare I say it, Hammond.

    Depending on how this turns out keeping the Tories together may not be possible or desirable but it seems to me that faced with the threat of PM Corbyn they will want to try. Gove's backing may well be key but I can't see him as the front man.

    Yes there is, to answer your question. He might be next Prime Minister but he is much less likely (though not impossible) to be next Conservative party leader.

    How it might happen is as follows. Theresa May addresses the 1922 Committee. Some ERGonaut with an eye to history decides to speak for England and tell her in the name of God to go. In one of those That Didn't Happen moments, the entire room spontaneously cheers and she realises the game is up. She agrees tonight to step down as Prime Minister straight away, but to stay on as party leader for continuity purposes. The grey suits want a compromise candidate who doesn't threaten any of them to be crowned. David Lidington is dragged to the chair.

    He takes over and immediately gets that new leader bounce that most new leaders get, particularly because he deals with Parliament in an inclusive manner and helps guide them to a Brexit solution that almost functions even if everyone hates it. After the crucial moment has passed, the Conservatives have their leadership election. The public having taken to Mr L, a Lidingtonian faction has formed. He sweeps all before him.

    There is a whole chain of weak links in that account, but none are utterly ridiculous.
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    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    According to 5 live this morning not just speed limiters by 2022, but all cars will have to have a black box and ignition techology that detects alcohol and drugs and which will prevent the vehicle starting

    To be voted on by the EU in September but expected to be adopted throughout the EU

    Apparently HMG has promised to follow all EU regulation on cars so brexit will not stop it

    It is also to apply to all commercial vehicles
    Given the timescale for self driving cars this seems a remarkably silly investment of a lot of money for very little upside over a limited period. The day when you tell the car to bring you home from the pub seems a much better solution.
    This is the EU remember
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    philiph said:

    What a state the Country is in where a buffoon like Boris is favourite

    You should rejoice.

    The rule is to lay the favourite. By installing him as favourite his failure is all but certain.

    At this stage it is no more than name recognition.
    I can tell you most Tory members want a Brexiteer and a hard Brexiteer to succeed May now, so if not Boris that favours Raab. The ERG probably have the numbers to get one of their own in the final 2 even if a Remainer or soft Brexiteer or the Deal backer wins the MPs vote
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    No - It very much is a story and the EU will pass it into law in September applying to all new cars and commercial vehicles from 2022. The speed will be governed by a limiter based on gps. The driver will be able to override the speed limiter but aftet a short period an audible warning will cut in
    So in other words, it doesn’t enforce speed limits, just makes it easier for drivers to avoid speeding accidentally.
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Charles said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    I think the problem is that some are using the accusation as a political weapon

    Unfortunately that muddies the water for when there are real issues that need to be addressed.
    I broadly agree with this, but with the addition that the Board of Deputies is probably quite anxious about appearing like it's effectively a PR wing of the Conservative party, and therefore feels like it needs to overreact to possible anti- Semitism from right wing sources, just to keep things balanced

    It's also possible that they've completely lost all sense of perspective.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,277

    DavidL said:

    Interesting that Lidington is only at 3% when he was being talked about as a stand in for May so much at the weekend. Is there a qualification on Betfair that excludes interim or stop gap leaders?

    Personally, I see Lidington as May redux with far too many of the same failings but if the bigger beasts wanted a nominee fall guy who was to hold the reins until this interminable Brexit is concluded (and there's the rub, that could take years yet) he is a possibility.

    The real challenge for the next leader is going to be holding the party together. How do Grieve and JRM remain on the same platform? It is going to need someone who is a very good people person, not an ideologue and not someone who has taken fixed positions. For me that rules out the likes of Gove, Raab and Johnson. It means that we are looking at people who have been more pragmatic such as Hunt and Javid or even, dare I say it, Hammond.

    Depending on how this turns out keeping the Tories together may not be possible or desirable but it seems to me that faced with the threat of PM Corbyn they will want to try. Gove's backing may well be key but I can't see him as the front man.

    Yes there is, to answer your question. He might be next Prime Minister but he is much less likely (though not impossible) to be next Conservative party leader.

    How it might happen is as follows. Theresa May addresses the 1922 Committee. Some ERGonaut with an eye to history decides to speak for England and tell her in the name of God to go. In one of those That Didn't Happen moments, the entire room spontaneously cheers and she realises the game is up. She agrees tonight to step down as Prime Minister straight away, but to stay on as party leader for continuity purposes. The grey suits want a compromise candidate who doesn't threaten any of them to be crowned. David Lidington is dragged to the chair.

    He takes over and immediately gets that new leader bounce that most new leaders get, particularly because he deals with Parliament in an inclusive manner and helps guide them to a Brexit solution that almost functions even if everyone hates it. After the crucial moment has passed, the Conservatives have their leadership election. The public having taken to Mr L, a Lidingtonian faction has formed. He sweeps all before him.

    There is a whole chain of weak links in that account, but none are utterly ridiculous.
    As you say there are weak links but 3% seems surprisingly low given his recent prominence. I seem to recall that you are on at a rather good price? That said his performance in the recent debate was profoundly underwhelming.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,277

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    According to 5 live this morning not just speed limiters by 2022, but all cars will have to have a black box and ignition techology that detects alcohol and drugs and which will prevent the vehicle starting

    To be voted on by the EU in September but expected to be adopted throughout the EU

    Apparently HMG has promised to follow all EU regulation on cars so brexit will not stop it

    It is also to apply to all commercial vehicles
    Given the timescale for self driving cars this seems a remarkably silly investment of a lot of money for very little upside over a limited period. The day when you tell the car to bring you home from the pub seems a much better solution.
    This is the EU remember
    If only we were leaving....
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. L, not persuaded by self-driving cars.

    It's a lot harder to be awake and attentive whilst doing nothing but watching than it is to persistently do an actual task. A self-driving car requires someone qualified to drive, constantly behind the wheel, and constantly ready to take control at a moment's notice. It's an expensive addition to make driving more difficult.

    Even if it doesn't often go wrong, when it does the consequences will be as bad or worse than when someone drives now.

    It's possible that self-driving vehicles in a more rail-road sense could work better, perhaps transporting goods on specific self-driving-only roads. But as a general approach to transport I think it's nuts.

    Plus, hackers can already make brakes fail. Between self-driving cars and speed limiters, we're heading for a situation where a mischief-maker or terrorist could bugger things up promptly. Hmm. I wonder if the emergency services will also have limited vehicles.
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    F1: all the markets for Bahrain are up.

    Ha. Bottas is 3.75 to be fastest qualifier, which is a bit shorter than last time. Hmm. Was going to say I'm not tempted, but Hamilton's evens for pole. A split stake, two-thirds on Hamilton, *might* make sense.

    Hmm. I went to check the stats, and Hamilton got pole in Australia in 2018 by a similar large margin yet the Ferraris beat him in Bahrain qualifying that year. Going to read my old blog posts and see if there's an explicit reason for that.

    Having done so, it seems the Mercedes, in 2018, was just outpaced in Bahrain qualifying. Vettel's just 4.33, value would seem to lie more with Leclerc each way (fifth the odds top 3) at 11, *if* one believes history will repeat itself.

    Mind you, there's 13 on the same basis for him to 'win' first practice.

    I've backed that last one with a tiny stake (14 with boost, incidentally).

    How about a market on which race will be Kubica's last race? And then sadly a market on which race will be Williams' last race. I get why they signed Kubica - he's a pay driver bringing big money. But the car is crap and he is crap and you wonder how long they can keep going if they are going to be Mastercard Lola slow.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991

    There is no moral difference between Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn. They are both very happy to appease - and to stand shoulder to shoulder with - racists. A general election in which they were the two options to become Prime Minister would be a shaming event for the UK.

    A shaming event for pro EU neoliberals maybe who have had one of their own leading one of the main parties since Thatcher and Kinnock. For hard Brexiteers and socialists though Boris v Corbyn would be ideal.

    I would also not be surprised to see a Trump v Sanders contest in the US in 2020 too and it would mirror the rise of populist parties of left and right across Europe as well
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    According to 5 live this morning not just speed limiters by 2022, but all cars will have to have a black box and ignition techology that detects alcohol and drugs and which will prevent the vehicle starting

    To be voted on by the EU in September but expected to be adopted throughout the EU

    Apparently HMG has promised to follow all EU regulation on cars so brexit will not stop it

    It is also to apply to all commercial vehicles
    Given the timescale for self driving cars this seems a remarkably silly investment of a lot of money for very little upside over a limited period. The day when you tell the car to bring you home from the pub seems a much better solution.
    It's beginning to look like self-driving cars cannot cope with pedestrians and cyclists. The only way to bring them in might be to ban bicycles from the roads and outlaw pedestrians crossing the road except at signalled crossing points. That's not something I favour.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,289
    edited March 2019
    Barry Gardiner all over the place on Sky talking incoherent nonsense

    'Let me be clear' needs to be banned in use by all mps and journalist
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    According to 5 live this morning not just speed limiters by 2022, but all cars will have to have a black box and ignition techology that detects alcohol and drugs and which will prevent the vehicle starting

    To be voted on by the EU in September but expected to be adopted throughout the EU

    Apparently HMG has promised to follow all EU regulation on cars so brexit will not stop it

    It is also to apply to all commercial vehicles
    Given the timescale for self driving cars this seems a remarkably silly investment of a lot of money for very little upside over a limited period. The day when you tell the car to bring you home from the pub seems a much better solution.
    Good that we can vote to kick them out them when they waste our money on nonsense

    ...oh you said the EU? Ah that’s a problem. I guess we should leave so we can make our own decisions then
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979

    Barry Gardiner all over the place on Sky talking incoherent nonsense

    'Let me be clear' needs to be banned in use by all mps and journalist

    Ought to be normal 'to be clear'.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    Isn’t this a complete non story? Speed limiting technology does not enforce speed limits, it allows drivers to control their speed by means other than the accelerator and the brake.
    Given there is now a camera point every 50 yards on the M1 it probably makes no odds
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Pioneers, it's a bit sad. It was only about five seasons ago that they were the closest to beating Mercedes. A slow decline due to resources being less than those enjoyed by Ferrari/Red Bull is understandable, but the pace has fallen off a cliff.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,726
    RoyalBlue said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://twitter.com/labourwhips/status/1110788247100239872

    In some cases the same MPs have signed mutually incompatible options.

    See the Brexiter amendments scrubbing the indicative options and trying to introduce a never ending debate. Relevant to the discussion below, although they will fall.

    And, to answer Carlotta's point, the government has NOT put its own deal into the mix.

    Some of the options are options, some are unicorns, and some aren't options but assertions (such as the well supported one simply restating that we are leaving the EU). Bercow is in an invidious position sorting out that lot.
    So it looks like May’s plan is for the votes to go ahead on the alternatives, the ample support for softer Brexits will scare the ERG, who will then vote through her deal later this week.

    I still don’t think she has the numbers.
    Nor do I but 22 may has been offered contingent on the deal passing this week - can she really not even try it?
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    Regarding speed limiters, its a good idea on paper that will be hard to implement. My Volvo has every safety system thats currently available, one of which is an adaptive speed limiter. Switch it on and the car reads the road signs and sets the limiter accordingly - you can set a variance of a couple of mph though as my speedo is well calibrated I leave it on absolute values.

    Most of the time it works just fine. Occasionally it misses a sign and has the wrong speed limit set (easy to override with a single steering wheel button press). Occasionally it decides the limit is now 20 instead of 30 and the first you know of it is the car braking.

    And this becomes the problem. We all know how unsafe SPECS roadworks are where there are several lanes of densely packed traffic all doing the same speed. Unless there is a "push to pass" mode allowing a few mph variance you will get a whole load of vehicles doing broadly the same speed with minimal gaps - and then big multi-vehicle collisions when someone gets it wrong.

    I do use the adaptive limiter round town - its very useful on that front. Less so on motorways, where the usual drive mode is pilot assist (car manages speed and steering autonomously)
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    It can’t be that bad, Hope Not Hate only described it as “deeply disturbing”
    They're like a modern gestapo, dobbing people into the police and employers if you're guilty of some wrongthink or other on twitter
    That’s the world we now live in.
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    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,945

    I am in Paris currently and have not been concentrating, but am I right in saying that the ERG is now split between those who believe the UK should become a vassal state of the EU and others who believe it is vital to keep on fighting against the Jews?

    I don't think the Corbynistas have yet infiltrated the ERG....

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/26/tory-mp-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-term-cultural-marxism

    Cultural Marxism is just a fancy way of saying “political correctness gone maaaaad”. I am surprised to see it described as an anti-Semitic trope.
    I would never use the term "Cultural Marxism".But only because it means nothing to me....

    (Did it have its roots in Vienna?)

    https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1110794539239919616

    It's a phrase I first heard nearly twenty years ago, at uni, from a hardened leftie, in relation to Gramsci's theories about cultural hegemony (they were encouraging me to read Gramsci). Said leftie thought it was was a very good thing, as it was a better way to achieve socialism than revolution.

    In terms of whether or not it's anti semitic, if it is, it appears to have developed as a conspiracy theory in *very* recent years, after the phrase entered common usage.

    Consider this article published in the Guardian in 2007 for example, the headline being about the "BBC's cultural marxism".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/jan/24/comment.comment

    What's interesting is that there are over 300 comments on that article, all from Guardian readers. I've scrolled the first ten pages of comments and not a single one references the phrase as an anti-semitic conspiracy theory. You would think if it was, Guardian readers would be the first to call it out?

    So evidently it was a term in common enough usage to make the headline of a newspaper article as recently as a decade ago without anyone linking the phrase to anti semitism. Which would suggest it's perfectly possible to have heard of the term without knowing about the conspiracy theory that's become attached to it.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Barry Gardiner all over the place on Sky talking incoherent nonsense

    'Let me be clear' needs to be banned in use by all mps and journalist

    Ought to be normal 'to be clear'.
    Clearly, obviously, actually and similar such words and related phrases are all tells, pointing you straight at obfuscations and confusions (very often in the speaker's own mind). They're quite helpful really if you bear that in mind.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    PB at its finest moaning about restrictions on driving.

    Don’t you know there’s a Brexit on?
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    edited March 2019
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Car speed limiters in 2022, we're getting them whether in the EU or not.

    According to 5 live this morning not just speed limiters by 2022, but all cars will have to have a black box and ignition techology that detects alcohol and drugs and which will prevent the vehicle starting

    To be voted on by the EU in September but expected to be adopted throughout the EU

    Apparently HMG has promised to follow all EU regulation on cars so brexit will not stop it

    It is also to apply to all commercial vehicles
    Given the timescale for self driving cars this seems a remarkably silly investment of a lot of money for very little upside over a limited period. The day when you tell the car to bring you home from the pub seems a much better solution.
    Tell that to the family of someone killed in an accident caused by idiots speeding. This is excellent news and long overdue
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Handy explainer of what the HoC is up to today:

    https://twitter.com/ChrisJames_90/status/1110798640132620288
This discussion has been closed.