Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti. She was a good human rights lawyer before she produced her antisemitism whitewash in return for her elevation to the Lords
We have so many incompetent politicians - it is no wonder we are where we are
She’s, as you say, a good lawyer who went on to do a very bad thing. She’s not useless at one thing at least and I agree she should have stuck at it as she did valuable work. The report fiasco has tainted her reputation irretrievably
What would the Conservative party prospectus for the Euro elections be? It’s almost inexpressible.
Now, hold that thought and ask yourself what their prospectus would be for a general election as well. That’s why the Conservatives will not be seeking a general election this year.
“Vote for us and we will shuffle about making grumpy noises about the dreadful PM we foisted on the country”
A winning formula surely ?
As I’ve previously opined - the Con party would be better off confirming that it won’t stand candidate as we are leaving.
Problem with that is, because one has to assume that a large chunk of the Tories' support won't tolerate backing either Farage or EDLkip, it risks handing a huge victory to Labour and the uber-Remain parties on a plate. Thus the pressure for the dreaded second referendum cranks up another notch
Even though they are desperate to avoid Euro elections, if they come to pass the Tories have no choice but to field a slate of candidates.
They might not try to fight the campaign very hard, however. There are various reports of a mass strike by both pissed-off activists and donors. It's possible that they have neither the troops on the ground nor the funds to deal with the European elections - in fact, they might be wanting to save whatever money they have left in case there's an early GE?
It's all gone a bit quiet on the Con-Lab Brexit talks, which probably means they are making some progress. MVx on Tuesday anyone?
(x = a positive integer - I've lost count.)
Hasn't it gone quiet because they've taken the weekend off? Theres no urgency anymore.
Yeah. No urgency. We need the EU27 to contradict their previous position and a law change next week or we collapse out on Friday night.
No rush everyone
The way our politicians are addressing or failing to address this is utterly disgusting. Almost none of them seem to appreciate that not knowing what rules your trade is going to be operating under next week is really sub-optimal. They should all be ashamed of themselves.
Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.
I have to disagree with you there. Chakrabati, Williamson, Grayling, Burgon, Gardiner, Bradley. All terrible and equivalent to scraping the bottom of the barrel
Isn't that just going to stoke (justifiable) fears amongst the ultras that Johnson is not really a leaver at all but will simply do what best promotes his own ambition to be PM.
What would the Conservative party prospectus for the Euro elections be? It’s almost inexpressible.
Easy.
"We're Not As Crap As All The Others"
Really? That is not a winner, given so many if it's own members disagree, in recent times.
Supporters are driven to the polls for different reasons but one of the strongest pulls is fear of the opposition. Presently many Conservative inclined voters are disenchanted but might reluctantly come back into line for "fear of something worse".
That said European and local elections are often used to kick the government up the arse. The Tories are going to get a canning. Only the size of the welts on the Conservative rump are yet to be determined.
Isn't that just going to stoke (justifiable) fears amongst the ultras that Johnson is not really a leaver at all but will simply do what best promotes his own ambition to be PM.
It strikes me as a smart move. The absolute priority after this fiasco is going to be bringing as much of the Tory party together as quickly as possible for an imminent election. Only teams combining both leavers and remainers will be able to do that. Given the general paucity of talent available teaming up with one of the more capable remainers strikes me as a smart move by Boris. It shows that he has not given up.
What would the Conservative party prospectus for the Euro elections be? It’s almost inexpressible.
Now, hold that thought and ask yourself what their prospectus would be for a general election as well. That’s why the Conservatives will not be seeking a general election this year.
Quite frankly that applies to any nation election right now. The manifesto that Grieve, Clarke, Francois & Baker can rally around would have to be a choose your own adventure book.
Theyd not get beyond the cover. Too busy arguing over the font.
The Conservative Party really does need to split. All that's stopping the three parts going their separate ways is as follows:
+ The centre-right won't go because it fears that the right would take most of the voters, leaving it as a pale blue analogue of the pale pink Liberal Democrats, and with about as much strength and support + The right won't go because it thinks it can swallow the party whole at the next leadership election + The Scottish party would probably like to run away from the English/Welsh one screaming, but is presumably afraid that if it declares independence then this would merely reinforce the SNP's campaign for the country to do likewise
The anti-EU vote will be split three ways; the pro-EU vote will be split six ways. One should fancy an anti-EU party to come first.
I know it's the Euros but there's also the "not mainly motivated by brexit" party. I reckon this one's bigger than it sounds, and that's why Lab and Con are correctly strong favourites.
A Euro-election will undoubtedly be all about Brexit, and parties with no clear, united view on it (Tories, Labour) are likely to suffer. My impression is that Tory voters care more about it and they'll suffer more, but I can certainly see a possibility of the Brexit Party winning most seats, followed by Labour.
Will it a major difference to what happens next? Not really. The domestic outlook and the prospects for a deal won't depend on who we have temporarily sitting in Strasbourg.
What would the Conservative party prospectus for the Euro elections be? It’s almost inexpressible.
Easy.
"We're Not As Crap As All The Others"
Really? That is not a winner, given so many if it's own members disagree, in recent times.
Supporters are driven to the polls for different reasons but one of the strongest pulls is fear of the opposition. Presently many Conservative inclined voters are disenchanted but might reluctantly come back into line for "fear of something worse".
That said European and local elections are often used to kick the government up the arse. The Tories are going to get a canning. Only the size of the welts on the Conservative rump are yet to be determined.
If only the Tories did get a Canning! I'd settle for a Castlereagh.
Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti. She was a good human rights lawyer before she produced her antisemitism whitewash in return for her elevation to the Lords
We have so many incompetent politicians - it is no wonder we are where we are
She was not a particularly good human rights lawyer. There were a number of examples, well before the anti-semitism inquiry, of her demonstrating her appalling judgment and failing to stand up for human rights. The inquiry just magnified and shone a harsh light on her existing weaknesses.
What would the Conservative party prospectus for the Euro elections be? It’s almost inexpressible.
Now, hold that thought and ask yourself what their prospectus would be for a general election as well. That’s why the Conservatives will not be seeking a general election this year.
“Vote for us and we will shuffle about making grumpy noises about the dreadful PM we foisted on the country”
A winning formula surely ?
As I’ve previously opined - the Con party would be better off confirming that it won’t stand candidate as we are leaving.
Problem with that is, because one has to assume that a large chunk of the Tories' support won't tolerate backing either Farage or EDLkip, it risks handing a huge victory to Labour and the uber-Remain parties on a plate. Thus the pressure for the dreaded second referendum cranks up another notch
Even though they are desperate to avoid Euro elections, if they come to pass the Tories have no choice but to field a slate of candidates.
They might not try to fight the campaign very hard, however. There are various reports of a mass strike by both pissed-off activists and donors. It's possible that they have neither the troops on the ground nor the funds to deal with the European elections - in fact, they might be wanting to save whatever money they have left in case there's an early GE?
Also opens up a line of attack that Labour aren’t serious about leaving the EU - as they are standing candidates...
Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti. She was a good human rights lawyer before she produced her antisemitism whitewash in return for her elevation to the Lords
We have so many incompetent politicians - it is no wonder we are where we are
No one whose stock has fallen as fast except possibly Theresa May
Miss Cyclefree, I still wonder how Israeli politics would be if Sharon hadn't suffered that stroke (believe it was a stroke) and had led Kadima to anticipated victory, and on to reform the electoral process so it was less fragmented.
A Euro-election will undoubtedly be all about Brexit, and parties with no clear, united view on it (Tories, Labour) are likely to suffer. My impression is that Tory voters care more about it and they'll suffer more, but I can certainly see a possibility of the Brexit Party winning most seats, followed by Labour.
Will it a major difference to what happens next? Not really. The domestic outlook and the prospects for a deal won't depend on who we have temporarily sitting in Strasbourg.
Brexit Party + UKIP combined may well out poll Labour, but with both standing they'll split the anti-EU vote.
Isn't that just going to stoke (justifiable) fears amongst the ultras that Johnson is not really a leaver at all but will simply do what best promotes his own ambition to be PM.
It's also underlines the general opinion that he's totally untrustworthy and without principles. While that's not an unusual opinion of politicians he's gold medal class.
The anti-EU vote will be split three ways; the pro-EU vote will be split six ways. One should fancy an anti-EU party to come first.
I know it's the Euros but there's also the "not mainly motivated by brexit" party. I reckon this one's bigger than it sounds, and that's why Lab and Con are correctly strong favourites.
Many of them will stay at home. From 1979-94, Euro elections were a referendum on the government of the day. From 1999, they became a vote about the EU.
What would the Conservative party prospectus for the Euro elections be? It’s almost inexpressible.
Now, hold that thought and ask yourself what their prospectus would be for a general election as well. That’s why the Conservatives will not be seeking a general election this year.
Quite frankly that applies to any nation election right now. The manifesto that Grieve, Clarke, Francois & Baker can rally around would have to be a choose your own adventure book.
Theyd not get beyond the cover. Too busy arguing over the font.
The Conservative Party really does need to split. All that's stopping the three parts going their separate ways is as follows:
+ The centre-right won't go because it fears that the right would take most of the voters, leaving it as a pale blue analogue of the pale pink Liberal Democrats, and with about as much strength and support + The right won't go because it thinks it can swallow the party whole at the next leadership election + The Scottish party would probably like to run away from the English/Welsh one screaming, but is presumably afraid that if it declares independence then this would merely reinforce the SNP's campaign for the country to do likewise
So, the miserable cohabitation continues...
Parties won't split if it means handing a victory to an opponent winning one third of the vote.
What would the Conservative party prospectus for the Euro elections be? It’s almost inexpressible.
Easy.
"We're Not As Crap As All The Others"
Really? That is not a winner, given so many if it's own members disagree, in recent times.
Supporters are driven to the polls for different reasons but one of the strongest pulls is fear of the opposition. Presently many Conservative inclined voters are disenchanted but might reluctantly come back into line for "fear of something worse".
That said European and local elections are often used to kick the government up the arse. The Tories are going to get a canning. Only the size of the welts on the Conservative rump are yet to be determined.
If only the Tories did get a Canning! I'd settle for a Castlereagh.
Let me get this right: Labour - whose conference policy is to go for a second referendum - is refusing to push for this during these talks. Yes?
So why should anyone believe any of the other conference resolutions they make?
I am afraid that particular Rubicon was crossed long ago when all those MPs who individually promised there would be no second vote went back on their word. There can be and should be absolutely no trust in politicians after the way they have behaved.
Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti. She was a good human rights lawyer before she produced her antisemitism whitewash in return for her elevation to the Lords
We have so many incompetent politicians - it is no wonder we are where we are
No one whose stock has fallen as fast except possibly Theresa May
There are very few who have enhanced their reputations: Ken Clarke. Tobias Ellwood and Rory Stewart, mainly for their willingness to go out day after day to try and persuade people into a pragmatic resolution, Yvette Cooper and Oliver Letwin. Any others?
1. The MV passing in the early part of this week. 2. It being agreed that we will leave on 22nd May at the EU summit. 3. May resigning by Friday (staying on as caretaker) 4. Parliament getting on with the passing of all required legislation and SIs. 5. A GE in about September so we can have a government again.
It's not impossible but I don't particularly fancy my chances.
June general election , September is far too late. Changes to PD to avoid Singapore on Thames and some mechanism (referendum perhaps) to lock that in.
You may rest assured that there's no chance of Singapore on Thames although its focus on manufacturing and balanced economy would be nice.
Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti. She was a good human rights lawyer before she produced her antisemitism whitewash in return for her elevation to the Lords
We have so many incompetent politicians - it is no wonder we are where we are
No one whose stock has fallen as fast except possibly Theresa May
There are very few who have enhanced their reputations: Ken Clarke. Tobias Ellwood and Rory Stewart, mainly for their willingness to go out day after day to try and persuade people into a pragmatic resolution, Yvette Cooper and Oliver Letwin. Any others?
Weirdly, and this will sound partisan but it really isn't, the three Tory Tiggers are all much higher in my estimation. The Labour Tiggers seem a bit underwhelming for some reason I can't put my finger on.
Let me get this right: Labour - whose conference policy is to go for a second referendum - is refusing to push for this during these talks. Yes?
So why should anyone believe any of the other conference resolutions they make?
No, the conference compromise was to keep the option on the table, and subsequent speeches have repeatedly said effectively "We want an election, or a deal with a customs union and workers' rights, or a referendum if all else fails." That's exactly, to the letter, what the negotiating team is saying. Clearly some Labour people are keener on a referendum than others, and whether it becomes a deal-breaker is doubtful, but only if there is in every other respect a deal.
1. The MV passing in the early part of this week. 2. It being agreed that we will leave on 22nd May at the EU summit. 3. May resigning by Friday (staying on as caretaker) 4. Parliament getting on with the passing of all required legislation and SIs. 5. A GE in about September so we can have a government again.
It's not impossible but I don't particularly fancy my chances.
June general election , September is far too late. Changes to PD to avoid Singapore on Thames and some mechanism (referendum perhaps) to lock that in.
You may rest assured that there's no chance of Singapore on Thames although its focus on manufacturing and balanced economy would be nice.
Most Brexit supporters don't want the UK to become libertarian Pirate Island.
Netanyahu has presided over Israel’s transformation from a prosperous country into a wealthy one. The state has good relations with more of its immediate neighbours than at any point in its history, faces no credible conventional military threat, and the wall has helped to insulate its population from Palestinian rage. The recognition of Jerusalem as their capital and the annexation of the Golan Heights by the USA is a diplomatic triumph, and will be imitated by other nations led by evangelical Christians or those strongly influenced by them (e.g. Brazil).
Netanyahu clearly does not have the cleanest hands. However, I think he will he remembered as a great statesman. He will overtake Ben Gurion’s term of office in 102 days. Incredible, considering their electoral system and its sheer volatility.
Miss Cyclefree, I still wonder how Israeli politics would be if Sharon hadn't suffered that stroke (believe it was a stroke) and had led Kadima to anticipated victory, and on to reform the electoral process so it was less fragmented.
Hope your finger's on the mend.
Yes it is thank you. Had a bit of scare when green pus started coming out and was feeling a bit feverish but the medecines are doing their thing. And got a severe talking to from my beloved about not wearing gloves.....but the doctor - and any gardener on here - understood: gardening with gloves is not the real thing....... And I won £50 on the Grand National which was very cheering......
Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti. She was a good human rights lawyer before she produced her antisemitism whitewash in return for her elevation to the Lords
We have so many incompetent politicians - it is no wonder we are where we are
No one whose stock has fallen as fast except possibly Theresa May
There are very few who have enhanced their reputations: Ken Clarke. Tobias Ellwood and Rory Stewart, mainly for their willingness to go out day after day to try and persuade people into a pragmatic resolution, Yvette Cooper and Oliver Letwin. Any others?
Yvette Cooper is trying to stop Brexit and Letwin is her patsy.
Rosie Cooper though has enhanced her reputation as have Flint, Barron and a few other Labour moderates.
Is it true that Rees Mogg has said that if the EU give us an extension we'll veto their budget? How is that possible
He did say that and more on how he would disrupt EU business. I am not sure if he is just being antagonistic or is actively winding up France to veto the extension
Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti. She was a good human rights lawyer before she produced her antisemitism whitewash in return for her elevation to the Lords
We have so many incompetent politicians - it is no wonder we are where we are
No one whose stock has fallen as fast except possibly Theresa May
There are very few who have enhanced their reputations: Ken Clarke. Tobias Ellwood and Rory Stewart, mainly for their willingness to go out day after day to try and persuade people into a pragmatic resolution, Yvette Cooper and Oliver Letwin. Any others?
Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti. She was a good human rights lawyer before she produced her antisemitism whitewash in return for her elevation to the Lords
We have so many incompetent politicians - it is no wonder we are where we are
No one whose stock has fallen as fast except possibly Theresa May
There are very few who have enhanced their reputations: Ken Clarke. Tobias Ellwood and Rory Stewart, mainly for their willingness to go out day after day to try and persuade people into a pragmatic resolution, Yvette Cooper and Oliver Letwin. Any others?
Yvette Cooper is trying to stop Brexit and Letwin is her patsy.
Rosie Cooper though has enhanced her reputation as have Flint, Barron and a few other Labour moderates.
WOuldn't personalising it and making it be about Corbyn be what she would prefer them to do? That way it would not be seen as a systemic problem within Labour.
Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti. She was a good human rights lawyer before she produced her antisemitism whitewash in return for her elevation to the Lords
We have so many incompetent politicians - it is no wonder we are where we are
No one whose stock has fallen as fast except possibly Theresa May
There are very few who have enhanced their reputations: Ken Clarke. Tobias Ellwood and Rory Stewart, mainly for their willingness to go out day after day to try and persuade people into a pragmatic resolution, Yvette Cooper and Oliver Letwin. Any others?
Weirdly, and this will sound partisan but it really isn't, the three Tory Tiggers are all much higher in my estimation. The Labour Tiggers seem a bit underwhelming for some reason I can't put my finger on.
Well the Tory tiggers have been all over the airwaves whereas the others haven’t. Though Luciana Berger is on maternity leave which explains her absence. So maybe that’s it.
Can just see the media's story boards and headlines now. "Him, trying to get inside her underwear, her trying to stop him", when will they "get together" and a total distraction from actual politics. Just when anyone thought the reputation of the UK couldn't get any lower.
Getting a referendum is not as important as being seen to try to get one, rather than giving in and Brexiting in a manner which makes it Labour's fault as well as the Tories.
Let me get this right: Labour - whose conference policy is to go for a second referendum - is refusing to push for this during these talks. Yes?
So why should anyone believe any of the other conference resolutions they make?
No, the conference compromise was to keep the option on the table, and subsequent speeches have repeatedly said effectively "We want an election, or a deal with a customs union and workers' rights, or a referendum if all else fails." That's exactly, to the letter, what the negotiating team is saying. Clearly some Labour people are keener on a referendum than others, and whether it becomes a deal-breaker is doubtful, but only if there is in every other respect a deal.
So when the deal was voted down and there was no offer of a CU and workers’ rights and Corbyn’s VoNC also failed why wasn’t he all over the airwaves demanding a second referendum in line with Labour policy?
Let me get this right: Labour - whose conference policy is to go for a second referendum - is refusing to push for this during these talks. Yes?
So why should anyone believe any of the other conference resolutions they make?
Rebecca Long Bailey confirms still in talks over customs union and is very lukewarm on a referendum
Posturing. 90% of the party want that referendum, does anyone really think Corbyn can go against that?
No he can't, and that's one of the many reasons why an agreement between Labour and the Tories is unlikely. Corbyn could not sell an agreement that did not include a referendum to his Party and if he tried to do so there is a significant risk of further defections to TIG and Labour descending into the kind of chaos the Tories now find themselves in.
Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti. She was a good human rights lawyer before she produced her antisemitism whitewash in return for her elevation to the Lords
We have so many incompetent politicians - it is no wonder we are where we are
No one whose stock has fallen as fast except possibly Theresa May
There are very few who have enhanced their reputations: Ken Clarke. Tobias Ellwood and Rory Stewart, mainly for their willingness to go out day after day to try and persuade people into a pragmatic resolution, Yvette Cooper and Oliver Letwin. Any others?
Yvette Cooper is trying to stop Brexit and Letwin is her patsy.
Rosie Cooper though has enhanced her reputation as have Flint, Barron and a few other Labour moderates.
What has Rosie Cooper done? Genuine question.
Been willing to vote for compromise despite supporting Remain.
Is it true that Rees Mogg has said that if the EU give us an extension we'll veto their budget? How is that possible
He did say that and more on how he would disrupt EU business. I am not sure if he is just being antagonistic or is actively winding up France to veto the extension
Either way it is not a good look
The ERG move further and further away from sanity.
Can just see the media's story boards and headlines now. "Him, trying to get inside her underwear, her trying to stop him", when will they "get together" and a total distraction from actual politics. Just when anyone thought the reputation of the UK couldn't get any lower.
Let me get this right: Labour - whose conference policy is to go for a second referendum - is refusing to push for this during these talks. Yes?
So why should anyone believe any of the other conference resolutions they make?
No, the conference compromise was to keep the option on the table, and subsequent speeches have repeatedly said effectively "We want an election, or a deal with a customs union and workers' rights, or a referendum if all else fails." That's exactly, to the letter, what the negotiating team is saying. Clearly some Labour people are keener on a referendum than others, and whether it becomes a deal-breaker is doubtful, but only if there is in every other respect a deal.
So when the deal was voted down and there was no offer of a CU and workers’ rights and Corbyn’s VoNC also failed why wasn’t he all over the airwaves demanding a second referendum in line with Labour policy?
He wants out of the EU and will not agree a referendum. Andrea Leadsom has just categorically ruled out a referendum on Marr
Netanyahu has presided over Israel’s transformation from a prosperous country into a wealthy one. The state has good relations with more of its immediate neighbours than at any point in its history, faces no credible conventional military threat, and the wall has helped to insulate its population from Palestinian rage. The recognition of Jerusalem as their capital and the annexation of the Golan Heights by the USA is a diplomatic triumph, and will be imitated by other nations led by evangelical Christians or those strongly influenced by them (e.g. Brazil).
Netanyahu clearly does not have the cleanest hands. However, I think he will he remembered as a great statesman. He will overtake Ben Gurion’s term of office in 102 days. Incredible, considering their electoral system and its sheer volatility.
I would view him as a corrupt machine politician who has done his best to foment ill-feeling between Jews and Arabs.
1. The MV passing in the early part of this week. 2. It being agreed that we will leave on 22nd May at the EU summit. 3. May resigning by Friday (staying on as caretaker) 4. Parliament getting on with the passing of all required legislation and SIs. 5. A GE in about September so we can have a government again.
It's not impossible but I don't particularly fancy my chances.
June general election , September is far too late. Changes to PD to avoid Singapore on Thames and some mechanism (referendum perhaps) to lock that in.
You may rest assured that there's no chance of Singapore on Thames although its focus on manufacturing and balanced economy would be nice.
Most Brexit supporters don't want the UK to become libertarian Pirate Island.
There's few people who want to get rid of the welfare state and have unlimited immigration etc but there's a certain element of right-wing politicians who do and see Brexit as a way to it.
Is it true that Rees Mogg has said that if the EU give us an extension we'll veto their budget? How is that possible
I assume it is only possible if we have an pro-Leave PM. Mind you it is the sort of thing other countries do on a regular basis as well. In the past decade France, Italy, Hungary, Poland and the Netherlands have all threatened to veto the budget for their own ends.
Boris Johnson as PM would lower Britain’s standing in the world even more than our current failure to make up our minds. He is not well regarded, to put it mildly. He is a joke and to put him in charge of Britain at a time when we need to earn our way in the world, having pretty much torn up our existing model, would be a catastrophic mistake.
Getting a referendum is not as important as being seen to try to get one, rather than giving in and Brexiting in a manner which makes it Labour's fault as well as the Tories.
A free vote is an attempt to get a second referendum.
And Labour's policy is to aim at a GE rather than a second referendum.
Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti. She was a good human rights lawyer before she produced her antisemitism whitewash in return for her elevation to the Lords
We have so many incompetent politicians - it is no wonder we are where we are
No one whose stock has fallen as fast except possibly Theresa May
There are very few who have enhanced their reputations: Ken Clarke. Tobias Ellwood and Rory Stewart, mainly for their willingness to go out day after day to try and persuade people into a pragmatic resolution, Yvette Cooper and Oliver Letwin. Any others?
Yvette Cooper is trying to stop Brexit and Letwin is her patsy.
Rosie Cooper though has enhanced her reputation as have Flint, Barron and a few other Labour moderates.
What has Rosie Cooper done? Genuine question.
Been willing to vote for compromise despite supporting Remain.
Netanyahu has presided over Israel’s transformation from a prosperous country into a wealthy one. The state has good relations with more of its immediate neighbours than at any point in its history, faces no credible conventional military threat, and the wall has helped to insulate its population from Palestinian rage. The recognition of Jerusalem as their capital and the annexation of the Golan Heights by the USA is a diplomatic triumph, and will be imitated by other nations led by evangelical Christians or those strongly influenced by them (e.g. Brazil).
Netanyahu clearly does not have the cleanest hands. However, I think he will he remembered as a great statesman. He will overtake Ben Gurion’s term of office in 102 days. Incredible, considering their electoral system and its sheer volatility.
I would view him as a corrupt machine politician who has done his best to foment ill-feeling between Jews and Arabs.
Me too. And who has probably weakened Israel’s long-term security by failing to make any sensible moves towards peace.
Boris Johnson as PM would lower Britain’s standing in the world even more than our current failure to make up our minds. He is not well regarded, to put it mildly. He is a joke and to put him in charge of Britain at a time when we need to earn our way in the world, having pretty much torn up our existing model, would be a catastrophic mistake.
Getting a referendum is not as important as being seen to try to get one, rather than giving in and Brexiting in a manner which makes it Labour's fault as well as the Tories.
A free vote is an attempt to get a second referendum.
And Labour's policy is to aim at a GE rather than a second referendum.
It's Members and MPs want to remain. They'll follow whatever path is necessary to achieve that, and Corbyn can only do so much.
Miss Cyclefree, I still wonder how Israeli politics would be if Sharon hadn't suffered that stroke (believe it was a stroke) and had led Kadima to anticipated victory, and on to reform the electoral process so it was less fragmented.
Hope your finger's on the mend.
Yes it is thank you. Had a bit of scare when green pus started coming out and was feeling a bit feverish but the medecines are doing their thing. And got a severe talking to from my beloved about not wearing gloves.....but the doctor - and any gardener on here - understood: gardening with gloves is not the real thing....... And I won £50 on the Grand National which was very cheering......
I am sure there is a joke in there about green fingers but really glad to hear you are on the mend.
Netanyahu has presided over Israel’s transformation from a prosperous country into a wealthy one. The state has good relations with more of its immediate neighbours than at any point in its history, faces no credible conventional military threat, and the wall has helped to insulate its population from Palestinian rage. The recognition of Jerusalem as their capital and the annexation of the Golan Heights by the USA is a diplomatic triumph, and will be imitated by other nations led by evangelical Christians or those strongly influenced by them (e.g. Brazil).
Netanyahu clearly does not have the cleanest hands. However, I think he will he remembered as a great statesman. He will overtake Ben Gurion’s term of office in 102 days. Incredible, considering their electoral system and its sheer volatility.
I would view him as a corrupt machine politician who has done his best to foment ill-feeling between Jews and Arabs.
I think that ill feeling has been there for 80 years. They seek mutually exclusive ends, so there is no reason for it to change.
The balance of power has now tipped ever more decisively in Israel’s favour, and yet the Palestinians continue to claim the whole pre-48 territory and Jerusalem. Their best chance is to campaign for one state and full Israeli citizenship for everyone living in the West Bank, but I don’t see it happening. The incompetence of the Palestinian ‘leadership’ makes the ERG look credible.
Getting a referendum is not as important as being seen to try to get one, rather than giving in and Brexiting in a manner which makes it Labour's fault as well as the Tories.
A free vote is an attempt to get a second referendum.
And Labour's policy is to aim at a GE rather than a second referendum.
It's Members and MPs want to remain. They'll follow whatever path is necessary to achieve that, and Corbyn can only do so much.
Sure but it would be a bit embarrassing to now oppose a CU when last week Labour was whipping support in favour of a CU.
Tripoli could fall to rebel forces within hours, Israel is about to annex the West Bank and we may be in the brink of a global environmental catastrophe. And all we can talk about is the eternal psychodrama of the Tory Party and its bastard offspring, Brexit. What a time to be alive.
Well, I have stuff to do. I don’t know whether some sort of deal will be agreed by Corbyn and May but if it is it sounds like a horrendous mish-mash, a sort of PushmePullyou deal. And I would like a vote on it with the choice of Remaining on the ballot paper not to have Britain’s political and economic settlement torn up on the basis of a deal agreed to in panic without proper scrutiny and not put before us voters.
Boris Johnson as PM would lower Britain’s standing in the world even more than our current failure to make up our minds. He is not well regarded, to put it mildly. He is a joke and to put him in charge of Britain at a time when we need to earn our way in the world, having pretty much torn up our existing model, would be a catastrophic mistake.
I think joke is too mild a description of attitudes to Boris - he is probably the most hated man in Europe at the moment and I think many leaders would refuse to engage with him.
Tripoli could fall to rebel forces within hours, Israel is about to annex the West Bank and we may be in the brink of a global environmental catastrophe. And all we can talk about is the eternal psychodrama of the Tory Party and its bastard offspring, Brexit. What a time to be alive.
The first two involve foreigners. It’s generally safe to assume that the public doesn’t give a shit how many die. The latter is complicated. Broadcast news is an unsuitable medium for complicated.
Those best PM figures are really something else. Do you think that we are just ever so slightly underwhelmed by the available choice?
How much longer can we go on like this? Change UK looks like a dead end to me. They have lost their opportunity by taking so long to become a party, failing to invite and build a mass membership, not fighting Newport and not looking particularly ready to fight either the Euros if they come or the locals either. But with 50% of the population choosing none of the above a break in the mold is surely coming.
Change UK's big idea is to build a new horseshoe parliament away from Westminster, adopt PR, and return to the politics of c.2005 nationwide.
They represent a step back, not forward.
I don't think it really matters what their ideas are. Any presence that they have in the next Parliament will be entirely token. I actually expect it to be nil.
My point is they're not coming up with any sort of change prospectus that resonates, other than to Stop Brexit.
There's certainly a (small) gap for a new centre party, drawing support heavily from the professional middle classes, but that would require it to do some thinking.
The real gap is a for a British version of Likud: stridently nationalist, socially conservative and treading a fine line between populism and corporatism. But without the stench of moral decay that surrounds the tories and the air of farce that typifies UKIP and the various Farage projects. What Veritas could have been with just a bit more hairspray.
I find you an interesting poster.
You talk hard socialist and also hat tip the solidly nationalist right-wing equivalent as being the only coherent the other way.
I can never tell to what extent you’re being serious or just trolling but, if I had to guess from your undoubted intelligence and hints of what you say on here, I’d say you’re nowhere near as hard Left/Marxist as you make yourself out to be, and you’re actually rather moderate centre-left with the rhetoric turned up to 11.
1. The MV passing in the early part of this week. 2. It being agreed that we will leave on 22nd May at the EU summit. 3. May resigning by Friday (staying on as caretaker) 4. Parliament getting on with the passing of all required legislation and SIs. 5. A GE in about September so we can have a government again.
It's not impossible but I don't particularly fancy my chances.
June general election , September is far too late. Changes to PD to avoid Singapore on Thames and some mechanism (referendum perhaps) to lock that in.
The Tories need time to choose a new leader. If Labour was smart it would do the same as the polling in the thread header vividly shows. Parliament have a lot of work to do which will keep them very busy until May and I suspect there will still be legislative things to be sorted out after the departure date. June is therefore probably too soon if we are going to have a campaign as well but I would settle for August.
Johnny Mercer.
Young people are not socialists, or blindly following Corbyn. They are frustrated capitalists, for whom capitalism doesn’t seem to have yielded benefits (access to housing etc). Give them something to vote for, and they’ll vote for us. As ever. pic.twitter.com/2rzHTKwZhw
What would the Conservative party prospectus for the Euro elections be? It’s almost inexpressible.
Now, hold that thought and ask yourself what their prospectus would be for a general election as well. That’s why the Conservatives will not be seeking a general election this year.
Quite frankly that applies to any nation election right now. The manifesto that Grieve, Clarke, Francois & Baker can rally around would have to be a choose your own adventure book.
They’d all believe in low taxes and free markets, sound finances, monarchy and would have varying degrees of sympathy with social conservatism.
The delta is on Europe, global aid and immigration (in other words, internationalism) but for Tories internationalism is a means to an end (to serve national interest) and not the end in itself as it is on the Left.
1. The MV passing in the early part of this week. 2. It being agreed that we will leave on 22nd May at the EU summit. 3. May resigning by Friday (staying on as caretaker) 4. Parliament getting on with the passing of all required legislation and SIs. 5. A GE in about September so we can have a government again.
It's not impossible but I don't particularly fancy my chances.
June general election , September is far too late. Changes to PD to avoid Singapore on Thames and some mechanism (referendum perhaps) to lock that in.
The Tories need time to choose a new leader. If Labour was smart it would do the same as the polling in the thread header vividly shows. Parliament have a lot of work to do which will keep them very busy until May and I suspect there will still be legislative things to be sorted out after the departure date. June is therefore probably too soon if we are going to have a campaign as well but I would settle for August.
Johnny Mercer.
Young people are not socialists, or blindly following Corbyn. They are frustrated capitalists, for whom capitalism doesn’t seem to have yielded benefits (access to housing etc). Give them something to vote for, and they’ll vote for us. As ever. pic.twitter.com/2rzHTKwZhw
The anti-EU vote will be split three ways; the pro-EU vote will be split six ways. One should fancy an anti-EU party to come first.
I know it's the Euros but there's also the "not mainly motivated by brexit" party. I reckon this one's bigger than it sounds, and that's why Lab and Con are correctly strong favourites.
Many of them will stay at home. From 1979-94, Euro elections were a referendum on the government of the day. From 1999, they became a vote about the EU.
I do find it amusing how Euro elections have always been an extension about British national politics, and never about what the EU wanted them to be about: which shade of europhile European party we wanted our batch of quasi-legislative nodders and amenders to be in the European Parliament.
1. The MV passing in the early part of this week. 2. It being agreed that we will leave on 22nd May at the EU summit. 3. May resigning by Friday (staying on as caretaker) 4. Parliament getting on with the passing of all required legislation and SIs. 5. A GE in about September so we can have a government again.
It's not impossible but I don't particularly fancy my chances.
June general election , September is far too late. Changes to PD to avoid Singapore on Thames and some mechanism (referendum perhaps) to lock that in.
You may rest assured that there's no chance of Singapore on Thames although its focus on manufacturing and balanced economy would be nice.
Most Brexit supporters don't want the UK to become libertarian Pirate Island.
Can just see the media's story boards and headlines now. "Him, trying to get inside her underwear, her trying to stop him", when will they "get together" and a total distraction from actual politics. Just when anyone thought the reputation of the UK couldn't get any lower.
Netanyahu has presided over Israel’s transformation from a prosperous country into a wealthy one. The state has good relations with more of its immediate neighbours than at any point in its history, faces no credible conventional military threat, and the wall has helped to insulate its population from Palestinian rage. The recognition of Jerusalem as their capital and the annexation of the Golan Heights by the USA is a diplomatic triumph, and will be imitated by other nations led by evangelical Christians or those strongly influenced by them (e.g. Brazil).
Netanyahu clearly does not have the cleanest hands. However, I think he will he remembered as a great statesman. He will overtake Ben Gurion’s term of office in 102 days. Incredible, considering their electoral system and its sheer volatility.
I would view him as a corrupt machine politician who has done his best to foment ill-feeling between Jews and Arabs.
If you’re Jewish with strong Zionist (in the original sense of the word) views living in Israel, I suspect you think he’s wonderful.
If you’re an Arab I suspect you view him as the devil incarnate.
Boris Johnson as PM would lower Britain’s standing in the world even more than our current failure to make up our minds. He is not well regarded, to put it mildly. He is a joke and to put him in charge of Britain at a time when we need to earn our way in the world, having pretty much torn up our existing model, would be a catastrophic mistake.
Boris is only top of the pile because there’s no-one else who seems to be able to say boo to a goose.
He’ll become yesterday’s news the instant there’s someone else who becomes tomorrow’s news.
Miss Cyclefree, I still wonder how Israeli politics would be if Sharon hadn't suffered that stroke (believe it was a stroke) and had led Kadima to anticipated victory, and on to reform the electoral process so it was less fragmented.
Hope your finger's on the mend.
Yes it is thank you. Had a bit of scare when green pus started coming out and was feeling a bit feverish but the medecines are doing their thing. And got a severe talking to from my beloved about not wearing gloves.....but the doctor - and any gardener on here - understood: gardening with gloves is not the real thing....... And I won £50 on the Grand National which was very cheering......
I am sure there is a joke in there about green fingers but really glad to hear you are on the mend.
Pointless statement (but not as pointless as his father’s snake oil). “If the circumstances were different I think I might do something” is a waste of typing . Only when you’re actually faced with the decision will you know how to behave. It clear that for most MPs a lack of alternative employability at similar compensation and adulation levels must be a driving factor.
1. The MV passing in the early part of this week. 2. It being agreed that we will leave on 22nd May at the EU summit. 3. May resigning by Friday (staying on as caretaker) 4. Parliament getting on with the passing of all required legislation and SIs. 5. A GE in about September so we can have a government again.
It's not impossible but I don't particularly fancy my chances.
June general election , September is far too late. Changes to PD to avoid Singapore on Thames and some mechanism (referendum perhaps) to lock that in.
The Tories need time to choose a new leader. If Labour was smart it would do the same as the polling in the thread header vividly shows. Parliament have a lot of work to do which will keep them very busy until May and I suspect there will still be legislative things to be sorted out after the departure date. June is therefore probably too soon if we are going to have a campaign as well but I would settle for August.
Johnny Mercer.
Young people are not socialists, or blindly following Corbyn. They are frustrated capitalists, for whom capitalism doesn’t seem to have yielded benefits (access to housing etc). Give them something to vote for, and they’ll vote for us. As ever. pic.twitter.com/2rzHTKwZhw
The Conservatives forgot about aspiration and became the party of smug haves.
The juxtaposition of tripling tuition fees and triple locking pensions.
What I like about Mercer is he can do that and also appeal to a solidly WWC base as well, as his campaigns in Plymouth Moor View have demonstrated.
If I were him I’d be getting training night and day on political leadership and premiership because the seven hounds of hell will be unleashed on him once the media and opposition parties work out he’s a credible candidate or frontrunner to be next PM/Tory Party leader.
Mr. Royale, ha, reminds me of a gif I saw comparing May's approach to Melchitt's "Doing exactly what we've done 17 times before is precisely the last thing they'll expect us to do this time."
As an aside, I'm currently reading The Blue Book of the War (reprinted in 1917). It's already really rather sad.
Comments
Even though they are desperate to avoid Euro elections, if they come to pass the Tories have no choice but to field a slate of candidates.
They might not try to fight the campaign very hard, however. There are various reports of a mass strike by both pissed-off activists and donors. It's possible that they have neither the troops on the ground nor the funds to deal with the European elections - in fact, they might be wanting to save whatever money they have left in case there's an early GE?
That said European and local elections are often used to kick the government up the arse. The Tories are going to get a canning. Only the size of the welts on the Conservative rump are yet to be determined.
+ The centre-right won't go because it fears that the right would take most of the voters, leaving it as a pale blue analogue of the pale pink Liberal Democrats, and with about as much strength and support
+ The right won't go because it thinks it can swallow the party whole at the next leadership election
+ The Scottish party would probably like to run away from the English/Welsh one screaming, but is presumably afraid that if it declares independence then this would merely reinforce the SNP's campaign for the country to do likewise
So, the miserable cohabitation continues...
Will it a major difference to what happens next? Not really. The domestic outlook and the prospects for a deal won't depend on who we have temporarily sitting in Strasbourg.
So why should anyone believe any of the other conference resolutions they make?
Hope your finger's on the mend.
Though I wonder if the ERG nutters will then vote FOR a second referendum in order to derail things.
Even Ian Lavery couldn't bring himself to vote for one:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47814353
Netanyahu clearly does not have the cleanest hands. However, I think he will he remembered as a great statesman. He will overtake Ben Gurion’s term of office in 102 days. Incredible, considering their electoral system and its sheer volatility.
Rosie Cooper though has enhanced her reputation as have Flint, Barron and a few other Labour moderates.
Either way it is not a good look
Well the Tory tiggers have been all over the airwaves whereas the others haven’t. Though Luciana Berger is on maternity leave which explains her absence. So maybe that’s it.
Getting a referendum is not as important as being seen to try to get one, rather than giving in and Brexiting in a manner which makes it Labour's fault as well as the Tories.
So when the deal was voted down and there was no offer of a CU and workers’ rights and Corbyn’s VoNC also failed why wasn’t he all over the airwaves demanding a second referendum in line with Labour policy?
Unfortunately I cannot find an image of it online, but when she reads it to our son, she refers to it as "Rees Mogg". The likeness is uncanny.
Or negat Cyrtae in Mogganese.
And Labour's policy is to aim at a GE rather than a second referendum.
Me too. And who has probably weakened Israel’s long-term security by failing to make any sensible moves towards peace.
Sometimes May doesn't seem too bad
The balance of power has now tipped ever more decisively in Israel’s favour, and yet the Palestinians continue to claim the whole pre-48 territory and Jerusalem. Their best chance is to campaign for one state and full Israeli citizenship for everyone living in the West Bank, but I don’t see it happening. The incompetence of the Palestinian ‘leadership’ makes the ERG look credible.
Till later.
You talk hard socialist and also hat tip the solidly nationalist right-wing equivalent as being the only coherent the other way.
I can never tell to what extent you’re being serious or just trolling but, if I had to guess from your undoubted intelligence and hints of what you say on here, I’d say you’re nowhere near as hard Left/Marxist as you make yourself out to be, and you’re actually rather moderate centre-left with the rhetoric turned up to 11.
Johnny Mercer.
The delta is on Europe, global aid and immigration (in other words, internationalism) but for Tories internationalism is a means to an end (to serve national interest) and not the end in itself as it is on the Left.
The juxtaposition of tripling tuition fees and triple locking pensions.
If you’re an Arab I suspect you view him as the devil incarnate.
He’ll become yesterday’s news the instant there’s someone else who becomes tomorrow’s news.
The juxtaposition of tripling tuition fees and triple locking pensions.
What I like about Mercer is he can do that and also appeal to a solidly WWC base as well, as his campaigns in Plymouth Moor View have demonstrated.
If I were him I’d be getting training night and day on political leadership and premiership because the seven hounds of hell will be unleashed on him once the media and opposition parties work out he’s a credible candidate or frontrunner to be next PM/Tory Party leader.
“Arrrr!..hahaha harrrrrr!!”
“Not joining us in the ‘ha arr!’’s, Percy?”
*end Blackadder*
As an aside, I'm currently reading The Blue Book of the War (reprinted in 1917). It's already really rather sad.