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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TMay makes most of the front pages this morning as reports con

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited April 10 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TMay makes most of the front pages this morning as reports continue of efforts to oust her

Given the fact that we could be seeing two separate sets of elections next month, the locals on May 2nd and the Euros on May 23rd it is hard to see how TMay a can be pushed out before then.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 3,387
    How - if he think it's against UK law it's a UK court decision, if he is talking about EU law it's a issue for the European courts.

    At no point has it anything to do with the EU itself...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 42,246
    edited April 10
    My heart bleeds for him at how upset he is we have not yet and probably never will leave the EU.

    Very much a case that the shadow he is chasing of the person to blame is the shadow he himself is casting.
  • God I hate these people.

    On Friday they are about to deliver a 21st century fall of Singapore.
  • eekeek Posts: 3,387

    God I hate these people.

    On Friday they are about to deliver a 21st century fall of Singapore.
    No - more like welcome to Venezuela.

    I really would like to put them all on TV and start to ask them whether they want tariffs / no tariffs and then step by step ask them what they would do next as a couple of economists outline what would happen...
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 24,125
    Mike's point about it being unwise to mount a coup unless you are confident of coming back with a corpse is a good one. However, we are dealing with men who quote Tennyson, who had some apt words for their strategic prowess:

    "Was there a man dismayed?
    Not though the soldier knew
    Someone had blundered."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 74,126
    edited April 10
    eek said:

    God I hate these people.

    On Friday they are about to deliver a 21st century fall of Singapore.
    No - more like welcome to Venezuela.

    I really would like to put them all on TV and start to ask them whether they want tariffs / no tariffs and then step by step ask them what they would do next as a couple of economists outline what would happen...
    The fall of Singapore of was an avoidable national humiliation, the more you read about it, the worse it gets for the UK, the second worse day for the British military (excluding defeats to France.)

    Ditto No Deal Brexit.
  • mattmatt Posts: 2,700

    God I hate these people.

    On Friday they are about to deliver a 21st century fall of Singapore.
    They’re people who’ve subcontracted their thinking to the DUP. I expect they see General Percival as some sort of master strategist, luring the Japanese into an impossible position.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 21,497

    Mike's point about it being unwise to mount a coup unless you are confident of coming back with a corpse is a good one. However, we are dealing with men who quote Tennyson, who had some apt words for their strategic prowess:

    "Was there a man dismayed?
    Not though the soldier knew
    Someone had blundered."

    Who was it who said that if you want to assassinate the King, you should start by digging two graves?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 21,497
    edited April 10

    eek said:

    God I hate these people.

    On Friday they are about to deliver a 21st century fall of Singapore.
    No - more like welcome to Venezuela.

    I really would like to put them all on TV and start to ask them whether they want tariffs / no tariffs and then step by step ask them what they would do next as a couple of economists outline what would happen...
    The fall of Singapore of was an avoidable national humiliation, the more you read about it, the worse it gets for the UK, the second worse day for the British military (excluding defeats to France.)

    Ditto No Deal Brexit.
    If we no deal Brexit this week, could we get Porto v Liverpool next week abandoned as a draw? ;)
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 5,014
    What is the mechanism for getting rid of Theresa May? Does it involve some dubious redefinition of rules to try and get rid of her?

    You can lay her going this year at 1.1 on betfair. Still feels like no one wants to take over before we actually Brexit.
  • Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    God I hate these people.

    On Friday they are about to deliver a 21st century fall of Singapore.
    No - more like welcome to Venezuela.

    I really would like to put them all on TV and start to ask them whether they want tariffs / no tariffs and then step by step ask them what they would do next as a couple of economists outline what would happen...
    The fall of Singapore of was an avoidable national humiliation, the more you read about it, the worse it gets for the UK, the second worse day for the British military (excluding defeats to France.)

    Ditto No Deal Brexit.
    If we no deal Brexit this week, could we get Porto v Liverpool next week abandoned as a draw? ;)
    No, if Liverpool can't make it to Portugal next week the tie is awarded to Porto 3 nil, thus Liverpool crash out of the competition.
  • I'm coming to the conclusion that the best thing that can happen is for the ERG to vote against the Government in a Parliamentary Vote of No Confidence.

    They'll have the whip removed and the cancer of the ERG will be removed from the Tory party.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 16,802

    I'm coming to the conclusion that the best thing that can happen is for the ERG to vote against the Government in a Parliamentary Vote of No Confidence.

    They'll have the whip removed and the cancer of the ERG will be removed from the Tory party.

    Maybe that's her real cunning plan, and she will succeed where Cammo failed?
  • eekeek Posts: 3,387
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    God I hate these people.

    On Friday they are about to deliver a 21st century fall of Singapore.
    No - more like welcome to Venezuela.

    I really would like to put them all on TV and start to ask them whether they want tariffs / no tariffs and then step by step ask them what they would do next as a couple of economists outline what would happen...
    The fall of Singapore of was an avoidable national humiliation, the more you read about it, the worse it gets for the UK, the second worse day for the British military (excluding defeats to France.)

    Ditto No Deal Brexit.
    If we no deal Brexit this week, could we get Porto v Liverpool next week abandoned as a draw? ;)
    As you said it was merely the second worse day... No Deal Brexit would be worse than that.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 2,801

    eek said:

    God I hate these people.

    On Friday they are about to deliver a 21st century fall of Singapore.
    No - more like welcome to Venezuela.

    I really would like to put them all on TV and start to ask them whether they want tariffs / no tariffs and then step by step ask them what they would do next as a couple of economists outline what would happen...
    The fall of Singapore of was an avoidable national humiliation, the more you read about it, the worse it gets for the UK, the second worse day for the British military (excluding defeats to France.)

    Ditto No Deal Brexit.
    I think they are hoping for more of an Alamo momen than a fall of Singapore one...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 21,497

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    God I hate these people.

    On Friday they are about to deliver a 21st century fall of Singapore.
    No - more like welcome to Venezuela.

    I really would like to put them all on TV and start to ask them whether they want tariffs / no tariffs and then step by step ask them what they would do next as a couple of economists outline what would happen...
    The fall of Singapore of was an avoidable national humiliation, the more you read about it, the worse it gets for the UK, the second worse day for the British military (excluding defeats to France.)

    Ditto No Deal Brexit.
    If we no deal Brexit this week, could we get Porto v Liverpool next week abandoned as a draw? ;)
    No, if Liverpool can't make it to Portugal next week the tie is awarded to Porto 3 nil, thus Liverpool crash out of the competition.
    Even if the Portuguese refuse to let the Liverpool team plane land?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,418
    This 'good behaviour' order the UK government have to obey? Who will police it?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 20,668

    I'm coming to the conclusion that the best thing that can happen is for the ERG to vote against the Government in a Parliamentary Vote of No Confidence.

    They'll have the whip removed and the cancer of the ERG will be removed from the Tory party.

    The ERG would make a mess of even that. Probably all wander into the Thames on the way to the division.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 11,228
    Somehow at the end of all this, this kind of student politics has got to stop. There is a weird tendency in British politics towards this kind of thing. Intelligent people who really should know better are not immune.

    We really need a wholesale clear out.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    God I hate these people.

    On Friday they are about to deliver a 21st century fall of Singapore.
    No - more like welcome to Venezuela.

    I really would like to put them all on TV and start to ask them whether they want tariffs / no tariffs and then step by step ask them what they would do next as a couple of economists outline what would happen...
    The fall of Singapore of was an avoidable national humiliation, the more you read about it, the worse it gets for the UK, the second worse day for the British military (excluding defeats to France.)

    Ditto No Deal Brexit.
    If we no deal Brexit this week, could we get Porto v Liverpool next week abandoned as a draw? ;)
    No, if Liverpool can't make it to Portugal next week the tie is awarded to Porto 3 nil, thus Liverpool crash out of the competition.
    Even if the Portuguese refuse to let the Liverpool team plane land?
    Yup, it is the responsibility of the away team to meet the local requirements to visit the host country of the away leg.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 21,497
    edited April 10
    rkrkrk said:

    What is the mechanism for getting rid of Theresa May? Does it involve some dubious redefinition of rules to try and get rid of her?

    You can lay her going this year at 1.1 on betfair. Still feels like no one wants to take over before we actually Brexit.

    As PM or Tory leader?

    1. She resigns of her own free will as PM, persuaded to do so by the cabinet.
    2. Sufficient about-to-retire Tory MPs vote against her in a Vote of Confidence in the government. The number required is currently 3, if the DUP vote with the government.
    3. The 1922 Committee can be persuaded to change their rule about needing 12 months between confidence motions in the party leader.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 20,668


    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 16,802
    CD13 said:

    This 'good behaviour' order the UK government have to obey? Who will police it?

    It is really an extension of the expectations we have met for the past two years - that we accept the EU 27 meeting separately to decide longer term matters and don't rock the boat on future budgets. We are members now and haven't had difficulty with this. Focusing on 'behaviour' is missing the point.
  • I'm coming to the conclusion that the best thing that can happen is for the ERG to vote against the Government in a Parliamentary Vote of No Confidence.

    They'll have the whip removed and the cancer of the ERG will be removed from the Tory party.

    The ERG would make a mess of even that. Probably all wander into the Thames on the way to the division.
    That would still see the whip removed.

    If you don't vote with the government in a VONC that's it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 7,897
    I hope they say "No Extension" after May gives another half hour of gurning nothing has changed wibble.

    Lidington to revoke on Friday.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,418
    I think the EU have made a tactical mistake. Getting the French to order us around won't end well, especially if some Remainers wallow in it.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 5,144
    It would presumably make it easier to remove May if the Euro/Council elections go very badly for the Tories, no?

    Yes, I understand the 'mechanism' presents a problem, but in practice I think ways would be found.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,418
    Mr B2,

    As members and still paying full membership, have we no right to ask where the money goes?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 16,802
    edited April 10



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    Probably fairer to cpnclude that the Brexiters gave everyone else permission to betray Brexit and exposed its flaws for others to exploit. But the culprits are the same.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 21,497
    CD13 said:

    Mr B2,

    As members and still paying full membership, have we no right to ask where the money goes?

    We are either members or we are not members.

    Membership confers both costs and benefits, two of the benefits being to elect MEPs and appoint a Commissioner. The major cost being, umm, the cost.

    So if we stay in and pay our money, we get to appoint our share of the people who run the club - whether the rest of the members like it or not.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 26,976

    I'm coming to the conclusion that the best thing that can happen is for the ERG to vote against the Government in a Parliamentary Vote of No Confidence.

    They'll have the whip removed and the cancer of the ERG will be removed from the Tory party.

    Knowing them, they’d have the whip removed and then realise what they’ve done and vote to keep May as PM and avoid an election.
  • isamisam Posts: 25,352



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    The Brexiteers have overplayed their hand, but to say no one else has betrayed it, when so many other MPs who could have seen it over the line are actively trying to overturn the vote, is just incorrect. I can’t really understand the argument that the ERG wanting a harder Brexit justifies so called moderates not voting for Mays Deal.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394

    It would presumably make it easier to remove May if the Euro/Council elections go very badly for the Tories, no?

    Yes, I understand the 'mechanism' presents a problem, but in practice I think ways would be found.

    Has anyone seen Boris taking driving lessons in a bus?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 3,240
    Sandpit said:

    Mike's point about it being unwise to mount a coup unless you are confident of coming back with a corpse is a good one. However, we are dealing with men who quote Tennyson, who had some apt words for their strategic prowess:

    "Was there a man dismayed?
    Not though the soldier knew
    Someone had blundered."

    Who was it who said that if you want to assassinate the King, you should start by digging two graves?
    Kongzi. When you embark on a journey of vengeance, first dig two graves.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 10,598

    It would presumably make it easier to remove May if the Euro/Council elections go very badly for the Tories, no?

    Yes, I understand the 'mechanism' presents a problem, but in practice I think ways would be found.

    IDS was removed after the elections went surprisingly well for the Conservatives, so the two are not necessarily related. Plots develop a momentum of their own.

    The difference here is that there is no plot to remove May, just a desire that there ought to be one.

    As an aside, I am by no means convinced the Tories face armageddon at the polls.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394

    I'm coming to the conclusion that the best thing that can happen is for the ERG to vote against the Government in a Parliamentary Vote of No Confidence.

    They'll have the whip removed and the cancer of the ERG will be removed from the Tory party.

    The ERG would make a mess of even that. Probably all wander into the Thames on the way to the division.
    That would still see the whip removed.

    If you don't vote with the government in a VONC that's it.
    So win win then?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 24,125

    I'm coming to the conclusion that the best thing that can happen is for the ERG to vote against the Government in a Parliamentary Vote of No Confidence.

    They'll have the whip removed and the cancer of the ERG will be removed from the Tory party.

    Knowing them, they’d have the whip removed and then realise what they’ve done and vote to keep May as PM and avoid an election.
    I really would not rule that out as a possibility.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 21,497
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mike's point about it being unwise to mount a coup unless you are confident of coming back with a corpse is a good one. However, we are dealing with men who quote Tennyson, who had some apt words for their strategic prowess:

    "Was there a man dismayed?
    Not though the soldier knew
    Someone had blundered."

    Who was it who said that if you want to assassinate the King, you should start by digging two graves?
    Kongzi. When you embark on a journey of vengeance, first dig two graves.
    Thanks. :+1:
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 2,801
    edited April 10
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 10,598

    I'm coming to the conclusion that the best thing that can happen is for the ERG to vote against the Government in a Parliamentary Vote of No Confidence.

    They'll have the whip removed and the cancer of the ERG will be removed from the Tory party.

    The ERG would make a mess of even that. Probably all wander into the Thames on the way to the division.
    That would still see the whip removed.

    If you don't vote with the government in a VONC that's it.
    Perhaps, perhaps not. If it results in a new Conservative Prime Minister rather than a Labour government, then I'm sure all sorts of things can be swept under the CCHQ carpet.
  • I'm coming to the conclusion that the best thing that can happen is for the ERG to vote against the Government in a Parliamentary Vote of No Confidence.

    They'll have the whip removed and the cancer of the ERG will be removed from the Tory party.

    Knowing them, they’d have the whip removed and then realise what they’ve done and vote to keep May as PM and avoid an election.
    Wow, now that you say it, I can see that happening.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394
    edited April 10

    IDS was removed after the elections went surprisingly well for the Conservatives, so the two are not necessarily related. Plots develop a momentum of their own..

    They weren't surprisingly good, rather they were about in line with expectations - the press strapline was 'don't confuse relief with joy.'

    But what did for IDS was the Tories' dismal showing in Brent East, where a number of Conservative voters deserted to the Liberal Democrats and Sarah Tether pulled off a stunning win. There was a general feeling that while Labour had suffered horrendously the Tories were not benefitting and IDS was the problem.

    (It's interesting to note the three previous Tory candidates in Brent East were David Gauke, Mark Francois and Damian Green.)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 21,497
    I'm still laughing that they clearly didn't run their new name past anyone familiar with Urban Dictionary before announcing it. CUKs indeed.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 3,656



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    +1
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 24,908



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    That isn't true. The ERG have betrayed Brexit but they are not alone. All of those who voted to oppose May's deal betrayed Brexit. And they continue to do so.

    Unless you are the SNP and (to an extent) the Lib Dems who were elected on different platforms no MP should have voted against May's deal unless they were confident that there was an alternative Brexit that commanded a majority in the House. Which there wasn't. The conduct of our political class has been shameful and the damage to our democracy profound.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 16,802
    DavidL said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    That isn't true. The ERG have betrayed Brexit but they are not alone. All of those who voted to oppose May's deal betrayed Brexit. And they continue to do so.

    Unless you are the SNP and (to an extent) the Lib Dems who were elected on different platforms no MP should have voted against May's deal unless they were confident that there was an alternative Brexit that commanded a majority in the House. Which there wasn't. The conduct of our political class has been shameful and the damage to our democracy profound.
    To repeat, the behaviour of the former enabled the latter.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394
    Sandpit said:

    I'm still laughing that they clearly didn't run their new name past anyone familiar with Urban Dictionary before announcing it. CUKs indeed.
    I think they should have stuck with Tiggers. It was nice and easy on the tongue and gave rise to many awesome puns about bounces, tails, Winnie elections...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 24,908
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    That isn't true. The ERG have betrayed Brexit but they are not alone. All of those who voted to oppose May's deal betrayed Brexit. And they continue to do so.

    Unless you are the SNP and (to an extent) the Lib Dems who were elected on different platforms no MP should have voted against May's deal unless they were confident that there was an alternative Brexit that commanded a majority in the House. Which there wasn't. The conduct of our political class has been shameful and the damage to our democracy profound.
    To repeat, the behaviour of the former enabled the latter.
    No it didn't. If the latter had done their duty then the deal would have passed whatever the morons in the ERG did.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 10,598
    ydoethur said:

    IDS was removed after the elections went surprisingly well for the Conservatives, so the two are not necessarily related. Plots develop a momentum of their own..

    They weren't surprisingly good, rather they were about in line with expectations - the press strapline was 'don't confuse relief with joy.'

    But what did for IDS was the Tories' dismal showing in Brent East, where a number of Conservative voters deserted to the Liberal Democrats and Sarah Tether pulled off a stunning win. There was a general feeling that while Labour had suffered horrendously the Tories were not benefitting and IDS was the problem.

    (It's interesting to note the three previous Tory candidates in Brent East were David Gauke, Mark Francois and Damian Green.)
    What did for IDS was that he got thumped at PMQs every week without fail, leading to a collapse in backbench morale.

    Here is a contemporary report of the 2003 local elections.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2994877.stm
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 16,802
    edited April 10
    isam said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    The Brexiteers have overplayed their hand, but to say no one else has betrayed it, when so many other MPs who could have seen it over the line are actively trying to overturn the vote, is just incorrect. I can’t really understand the argument that the ERG wanting a harder Brexit justifies so called moderates not voting for Mays Deal.
    Easy. Had there been political unity behind selling the government's deal, coming on the back of the referendum, it would have been very difficult to take a contrary stance that didn't concede the inevitability of exit. It's widely known that there was a batch of Labour leavers willing to do so, as Alan Johnson said on last week's TW.
  • DavidL said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    That isn't true. The ERG have betrayed Brexit but they are not alone. All of those who voted to oppose May's deal betrayed Brexit. And they continue to do so.

    Unless you are the SNP and (to an extent) the Lib Dems who were elected on different platforms no MP should have voted against May's deal unless they were confident that there was an alternative Brexit that commanded a majority in the House. Which there wasn't. The conduct of our political class has been shameful and the damage to our democracy profound.
    Every time Leavers said Mrs May's deal was worse than Remaining they gave succour to others to oppose the deal.

    Plus Labour's manifesto was clear and gave Labour cover to oppose Mrs May's deal.
  • isamisam Posts: 25,352
    edited April 10
    DavidL said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    That isn't true. The ERG have betrayed Brexit but they are not alone. All of those who voted to oppose May's deal betrayed Brexit. And they continue to do so.

    Unless you are the SNP and (to an extent) the Lib Dems who were elected on different platforms no MP should have voted against May's deal unless they were confident that there was an alternative Brexit that commanded a majority in the House. Which there wasn't. The conduct of our political class has been shameful and the damage to our democracy profound.
    That’s the truth. Trying to spilt the wreckers into good and bad seems like a need to play cowboys and Indians over every issue. The fact is that anyone voting against Mays Deal is the bad guy. We knew the rules when we won, a Remain Parliament wasn’t going to deliver a UKIP Brexit, but I never thought the so called moderates would try to stop the compromise.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 28,073

    DavidL said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    That isn't true. The ERG have betrayed Brexit but they are not alone. All of those who voted to oppose May's deal betrayed Brexit. And they continue to do so.

    Unless you are the SNP and (to an extent) the Lib Dems who were elected on different platforms no MP should have voted against May's deal unless they were confident that there was an alternative Brexit that commanded a majority in the House. Which there wasn't. The conduct of our political class has been shameful and the damage to our democracy profound.
    Every time Leavers said Mrs May's deal was worse than Remaining they gave succour to others to oppose the deal.

    Plus Labour's manifesto was clear and gave Labour cover to oppose Mrs May's deal.
    They’re not very bright, are they?

    They just make themselves look like loons.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 10,822
    It's a long time since the press has been so out of kilter with public opinion. If they keep this up people might start asking about their responsibility for getting us into this quagmire in the first place. The difference between the editorialising in the press and TV has never been so wide.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,418
    Mr Sandpit,

    So we're no right to ask where the money goes? Who has that right?

    It actually is turning into Game of Thrones ...

    "On your knees varlet, and obey your rightful Lord." quoth Sir Macron of Gaul.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 28,073



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    Darwin Award to the ERG.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 3,656
    isam said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    The Brexiteers have overplayed their hand, but to say no one else has betrayed it, when so many other MPs who could have seen it over the line are actively trying to overturn the vote, is just incorrect. I can’t really understand the argument that the ERG wanting a harder Brexit justifies so called moderates not voting for Mays Deal.
    Reverse the roles in your head. Imagine we have just had a second referendum and remain has won by 52% to 48%. And then parliament votes to leave anyway. But David Lammy and Anna Soubry are amongst those voting to leave, and indeed give it enough votes to go through. Would you regard them as only partially to blame?
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,096
    isam said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    The Brexiteers have overplayed their hand, but to say no one else has betrayed it, when so many other MPs who could have seen it over the line are actively trying to overturn the vote, is just incorrect. I can’t really understand the argument that the ERG wanting a harder Brexit justifies so called moderates not voting for Mays Deal.
    Well quite - remoaners busy rewriting history as usual. The WA always needed either the votes of the DUP or the 6 -10 Tory ultra remainers to take it over the line.

    As for the challenge to May it can't be proved one way or the other that Mayites didn't trigger the contest early knowing full well a later challenge could prove more dangerous.

    Having said all that that tactics of some within the ERG have been baffling or naive (take your pick). They have throughout under-estimated the strength and low cunning of the anti-Brexit forces ranged against them.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 28,073

    Mike's point about it being unwise to mount a coup unless you are confident of coming back with a corpse is a good one. However, we are dealing with men who quote Tennyson, who had some apt words for their strategic prowess:

    "Was there a man dismayed?
    Not though the soldier knew
    Someone had blundered."

    Almost all poetry is shit.

    Like opera it’s something people pretend to like to look clever but actually don’t.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 3,089

    I hope they say "No Extension" after May gives another half hour of gurning nothing has changed wibble.

    Lidington to revoke on Friday.

    Its bizarre - we're a few score hours from the deadline and we're still clueless, awaiting to know (a) whether May's begging will deliver anything that (b) her own MPs can support.

    I hear the European voices asking if they really want the hassle of having a crop of box fresh screaming angry morons elected as British MEPs on top of a further spell of "I hate the EU", "No, I hate them more" positioning for the Tory leadership country.

    They really should tell us to do one.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 5,144

    It would presumably make it easier to remove May if the Euro/Council elections go very badly for the Tories, no?

    Yes, I understand the 'mechanism' presents a problem, but in practice I think ways would be found.

    IDS was removed after the elections went surprisingly well for the Conservatives, so the two are not necessarily related. Plots develop a momentum of their own.

    The difference here is that there is no plot to remove May, just a desire that there ought to be one.

    As an aside, I am by no means convinced the Tories face armageddon at the polls.
    Yes, I'm far from sure myself, and my betting (or lack of it) reflects that. Third Parties should do well but not prepared to speculate much beyond that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 17,404
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    That isn't true. The ERG have betrayed Brexit but they are not alone. All of those who voted to oppose May's deal betrayed Brexit. And they continue to do so.

    Unless you are the SNP and (to an extent) the Lib Dems who were elected on different platforms no MP should have voted against May's deal unless they were confident that there was an alternative Brexit that commanded a majority in the House. Which there wasn't. The conduct of our political class has been shameful and the damage to our democracy profound.
    To repeat, the behaviour of the former enabled the latter.
    If she can't even convince her own side why on earth should we be convinced?

    Says everyone not a Conservative MP.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 23,243
    CD13 said:

    Mr B2,

    As members and still paying full membership, have we no right to ask where the money goes?

    The idea the EU can restrict the UK when it has taken part in the EU elections and has MEPs is one of the most absurd ideas the EU leaders have.

    As a full paying and voting member we cannot be restrained anymore than any other member. The ECJ would have a field day
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 24,908

    DavidL said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    That isn't true. The ERG have betrayed Brexit but they are not alone. All of those who voted to oppose May's deal betrayed Brexit. And they continue to do so.

    Unless you are the SNP and (to an extent) the Lib Dems who were elected on different platforms no MP should have voted against May's deal unless they were confident that there was an alternative Brexit that commanded a majority in the House. Which there wasn't. The conduct of our political class has been shameful and the damage to our democracy profound.
    Every time Leavers said Mrs May's deal was worse than Remaining they gave succour to others to oppose the deal.

    Plus Labour's manifesto was clear and gave Labour cover to oppose Mrs May's deal.
    It only gives succor if you think the likes of JRM or Francois or Baker have ever said anything worth listening to in their lives. If you don't (and who would) its just a pathetic excuse.

    As for Labour they committed themselves to honouring the Brexit vote. If they hadn't even May might have got a majority. Of course they had their own ideas of how Brexit should be done but those ideas are only relevant if there is a majority in the House for them. Which there isn't. It did not give them cover to stop Brexit or let the morons stop it either.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 16,802
    Norm said:

    isam said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    The Brexiteers have overplayed their hand, but to say no one else has betrayed it, when so many other MPs who could have seen it over the line are actively trying to overturn the vote, is just incorrect. I can’t really understand the argument that the ERG wanting a harder Brexit justifies so called moderates not voting for Mays Deal.
    Well quite - remoaners busy rewriting history as usual. The WA always needed either the votes of the DUP or the 6 -10 Tory ultra remainers to take it over the line.

    As for the challenge to May it can't be proved one way or the other that Mayites didn't trigger the contest early knowing full well a later challenge could prove more dangerous.

    Having said all that that tactics of some within the ERG have been baffling or naive (take your pick). They have throughout under-estimated the strength and low cunning of the anti-Brexit forces ranged against them.
    The government could have met DUP concerns with a softer approach to Brexit.

    Such an approach would also have brought across enough Labour MPs so as to be able not to worry about their remainers.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 28,073
    matt said:

    God I hate these people.

    On Friday they are about to deliver a 21st century fall of Singapore.
    They’re people who’ve subcontracted their thinking to the DUP. I expect they see General Percival as some sort of master strategist, luring the Japanese into an impossible position.
    General Percival would have been shocked by the ineptitude of the ERG.
  • eekeek Posts: 3,387
    edited April 10
    isam said:

    DavidL said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    That isn't true. The ERG have betrayed Brexit but they are not alone. All of those who voted to oppose May's deal betrayed Brexit. And they continue to do so.

    Unless you are the SNP and (to an extent) the Lib Dems who were elected on different platforms no MP should have voted against May's deal unless they were confident that there was an alternative Brexit that commanded a majority in the House. Which there wasn't. The conduct of our political class has been shameful and the damage to our democracy profound.
    That’s the truth. Trying to spilt the wreckers into good and bad seems like a need to play cowboys and Indians over every issue. The fact is that anyone voting against Mays Deal is the bad guy. We knew the rules when we won, a Remain Parliament wasn’t going to deliver a UKIP Brexit, but I never thought the so called moderates would try to stop the compromise.
    Not quite - anyone who voted for A50 and then didn't vote for May's deal is bad.

    However May's Deal is based on red lines that many moderates don't like - for instance Freedom of Movement isn't a problem for some (including leave voters on here).

    Oh and the purpose of the opposition is to oppose which means they can vote against if they don't like the deal for any reason.

    The ERG don't have any of those excuses.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 20,668

    I hope they say "No Extension" after May gives another half hour of gurning nothing has changed wibble.

    Lidington to revoke on Friday.

    Its bizarre - we're a few score hours from the deadline and we're still clueless, awaiting to know (a) whether May's begging will deliver anything that (b) her own MPs can support.

    I hear the European voices asking if they really want the hassle of having a crop of box fresh screaming angry morons elected as British MEPs on top of a further spell of "I hate the EU", "No, I hate them more" positioning for the Tory leadership country.

    They really should tell us to do one.
    The fact that they wont tell us to do one, shows them in a far better light than anything that has come from our side of late.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 16,802



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    Darwin Award to the ERG.
    They were hardly a poster board for evolutionary progress in the first place.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    That isn't true. The ERG have betrayed Brexit but they are not alone. All of those who voted to oppose May's deal betrayed Brexit. And they continue to do so.

    Unless you are the SNP and (to an extent) the Lib Dems who were elected on different platforms no MP should have voted against May's deal unless they were confident that there was an alternative Brexit that commanded a majority in the House. Which there wasn't. The conduct of our political class has been shameful and the damage to our democracy profound.
    Every time Leavers said Mrs May's deal was worse than Remaining they gave succour to others to oppose the deal.

    Plus Labour's manifesto was clear and gave Labour cover to oppose Mrs May's deal.
    It only gives succor if you think the likes of JRM or Francois or Baker have ever said anything worth listening to in their lives. If you don't (and who would) its just a pathetic excuse.

    As for Labour they committed themselves to honouring the Brexit vote. If they hadn't even May might have got a majority. Of course they had their own ideas of how Brexit should be done but those ideas are only relevant if there is a majority in the House for them. Which there isn't. It did not give them cover to stop Brexit or let the morons stop it either.
    It wasn't just them, two of Mrs May's Brexit Secretaries, and her former Foreign Secretary said the same.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 2,801
    edited April 10
    Sandpit said:

    I'm still laughing that they clearly didn't run their new name past anyone familiar with Urban Dictionary before announcing it. CUKs indeed.
    Maybe I'm reading too much into it but it might be reflective of their limited bubble, they also didn't want too much member interfecence (being part of their problem with their old parties) so it seems to be pretty much the MPs who defected, none of which are generally considered stand out names and some advisers from the New Labour era. They are mostly intelligent and educated people but there is a very limited perspective there.

    Edit: Also yes I could have cheered (if I wasn't laughing so much) when I heard the name.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 21,497
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'm still laughing that they clearly didn't run their new name past anyone familiar with Urban Dictionary before announcing it. CUKs indeed.
    I think they should have stuck with Tiggers. It was nice and easy on the tongue and gave rise to many awesome puns about bounces, tails, Winnie elections...
    Indeed. TIG worked well as a brand.

    I'd guess that they couldn't register "The Independent Group" as a party name with the Electoral Commission though, as it could be confused with the description commonly used by candidates of no party affiliation. Memories of the "Literal Democrats" that led to the law on party name registration.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394

    ydoethur said:

    IDS was removed after the elections went surprisingly well for the Conservatives, so the two are not necessarily related. Plots develop a momentum of their own..

    They weren't surprisingly good, rather they were about in line with expectations - the press strapline was 'don't confuse relief with joy.'

    But what did for IDS was the Tories' dismal showing in Brent East, where a number of Conservative voters deserted to the Liberal Democrats and Sarah Tether pulled off a stunning win. There was a general feeling that while Labour had suffered horrendously the Tories were not benefitting and IDS was the problem.

    (It's interesting to note the three previous Tory candidates in Brent East were David Gauke, Mark Francois and Damian Green.)
    What did for IDS was that he got thumped at PMQs every week without fail, leading to a collapse in backbench morale.

    Here is a contemporary report of the 2003 local elections.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2994877.stm
    What did for IDS is that he was a shite leader in all ways. But Brent East was what led first to *that* conference speech and then to the confidence vote.

    And that report doesn't undermine what I said. The expectations were more seats and a poor showing in the popular vote, which happened. Allowing for the fact the Tory chairman of the time was running around doing expectations management of 'a net gain of around thirty seats' (what an idiot that person was, isn't it a good job she was never promoted to high office) anything less than 300 was regarded as terminal for IDS. Admittedly 566 was more than that minimum, there was no sign of a 1990s style breakthrough that would put them on the road to power.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 16,802

    I hope they say "No Extension" after May gives another half hour of gurning nothing has changed wibble.

    Lidington to revoke on Friday.

    Its bizarre - we're a few score hours from the deadline and we're still clueless, awaiting to know (a) whether May's begging will deliver anything that (b) her own MPs can support.

    I hear the European voices asking if they really want the hassle of having a crop of box fresh screaming angry morons elected as British MEPs on top of a further spell of "I hate the EU", "No, I hate them more" positioning for the Tory leadership country.

    They really should tell us to do one.
    If they did, we wouldn't.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 20,668
    Just learnt a new modern techie word - "sealioning"

  • isamisam Posts: 25,352
    edited April 10

    isam said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    The Brexiteers have overplayed their hand, but to say no one else has betrayed it, when so many other MPs who could have seen it over the line are actively trying to overturn the vote, is just incorrect. I can’t really understand the argument that the ERG wanting a harder Brexit justifies so called moderates not voting for Mays Deal.
    Reverse the roles in your head. Imagine we have just had a second referendum and remain has won by 52% to 48%. And then parliament votes to leave anyway. But David Lammy and Anna Soubry are amongst those voting to leave, and indeed give it enough votes to go through. Would you regard them as only partially to blame?
    That example relies on us having left, and I can’t imagine us ever leaving so it’s too difficult to play it out!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 24,908

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    That isn't true. The ERG have betrayed Brexit but they are not alone. All of those who voted to oppose May's deal betrayed Brexit. And they continue to do so.

    Unless you are the SNP and (to an extent) the Lib Dems who were elected on different platforms no MP should have voted against May's deal unless they were confident that there was an alternative Brexit that commanded a majority in the House. Which there wasn't. The conduct of our political class has been shameful and the damage to our democracy profound.
    Every time Leavers said Mrs May's deal was worse than Remaining they gave succour to others to oppose the deal.

    Plus Labour's manifesto was clear and gave Labour cover to oppose Mrs May's deal.
    It only gives succor if you think the likes of JRM or Francois or Baker have ever said anything worth listening to in their lives. If you don't (and who would) its just a pathetic excuse.

    As for Labour they committed themselves to honouring the Brexit vote. If they hadn't even May might have got a majority. Of course they had their own ideas of how Brexit should be done but those ideas are only relevant if there is a majority in the House for them. Which there isn't. It did not give them cover to stop Brexit or let the morons stop it either.
    It wasn't just them, two of Mrs May's Brexit Secretaries, and her former Foreign Secretary said the same.
    So what? The people were asked and they answered. The answer was close so a softer Brexit than Boris claimed and Raab and Davies actually wanted wasn't a reasonable response or a reason to reject the deal that had actually been negotiated. These excuses for not doing what they promised when elected are just pathetic. And what trust there ever was in our political class has been destroyed as a result.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 24,125
    I have no sympathy with the predicament of self-proclaimed moderate Leavers. None. They spent years pandering to the prejudices of the hardliners and then expected them meekly to fall into line when it suited them. Newsflash: if you want something to happen, you have to argue for it consistently and firmly. You didn't. The outcome was the consequence of your own actions.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 20,668
    Someone has fallen for the charms of the french this morning:

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 7,309
    What an utter ****show. The brexiteers had the thing they wanted, and in pure greed and hubris they've thrown it all away.


    They deserve it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 21,497

    Sandpit said:

    I'm still laughing that they clearly didn't run their new name past anyone familiar with Urban Dictionary before announcing it. CUKs indeed.
    Maybe I'm reading too much into it but it might be reflective of their limited bubble, they also didn't want too much member interfecence (being part of their problem with their old parties) so it seems to be pretty much the MPs who defected, none of which are generally considered stand out names and some advisers from the New Labour era. They are mostly intelligent and educated people but there is a very limited perspective there.

    Edit: Also yes I could have cheered (if I wasn't laughing so much) when I heard the name.
    It should have been blindingly obvious to them that, if we get EU elections, Farage is going to spend the next two months calling them the EU's CUKs at every opportunity.

    None of them will get the joke, but most of Farage's supporters (and all of the media) will be laughing out loud at it.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 5,144

    I hope they say "No Extension" after May gives another half hour of gurning nothing has changed wibble.

    Lidington to revoke on Friday.

    Its bizarre - we're a few score hours from the deadline and we're still clueless, awaiting to know (a) whether May's begging will deliver anything that (b) her own MPs can support.

    I hear the European voices asking if they really want the hassle of having a crop of box fresh screaming angry morons elected as British MEPs on top of a further spell of "I hate the EU", "No, I hate them more" positioning for the Tory leadership country.

    They really should tell us to do one.
    The fact that they wont tell us to do one, shows them in a far better light than anything that has come from our side of late.
    This has been remarked upon to me by more than one person recently. The EU politicians have come out of this fairly well. Some of them appear to be grown ups.
  • eekeek Posts: 3,387
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'm still laughing that they clearly didn't run their new name past anyone familiar with Urban Dictionary before announcing it. CUKs indeed.
    I think they should have stuck with Tiggers. It was nice and easy on the tongue and gave rise to many awesome puns about bounces, tails, Winnie elections...
    Indeed. TIG worked well as a brand.

    I'd guess that they couldn't register "The Independent Group" as a party name with the Electoral Commission though, as it could be confused with the description commonly used by candidates of no party affiliation. Memories of the "Literal Democrats" that led to the law on party name registration.
    It was a shame other people got hold of "Renew" first as that was a suitable party name. I think its a general problem finding a decent name when everything is already taken.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394
    DavidL said:

    It only gives succor if you think the likes of JRM or Francois or Baker have ever said anything worth listening to in their lives. If you don't (and who would) its just a pathetic excuse.

    Only a sucker would think that?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 20,668
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'm still laughing that they clearly didn't run their new name past anyone familiar with Urban Dictionary before announcing it. CUKs indeed.
    I think they should have stuck with Tiggers. It was nice and easy on the tongue and gave rise to many awesome puns about bounces, tails, Winnie elections...
    Indeed. TIG worked well as a brand.

    I'd guess that they couldn't register "The Independent Group" as a party name with the Electoral Commission though, as it could be confused with the description commonly used by candidates of no party affiliation. Memories of the "Literal Democrats" that led to the law on party name registration.
    Could they not have been labelled as 'TIG' on ballots?

    I fear Change UK is a flop as a name.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 24,125
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'm still laughing that they clearly didn't run their new name past anyone familiar with Urban Dictionary before announcing it. CUKs indeed.
    Maybe I'm reading too much into it but it might be reflective of their limited bubble, they also didn't want too much member interfecence (being part of their problem with their old parties) so it seems to be pretty much the MPs who defected, none of which are generally considered stand out names and some advisers from the New Labour era. They are mostly intelligent and educated people but there is a very limited perspective there.

    Edit: Also yes I could have cheered (if I wasn't laughing so much) when I heard the name.
    It should have been blindingly obvious to them that, if we get EU elections, Farage is going to spend the next two months calling them the EU's CUKs at every opportunity.

    None of them will get the joke, but most of Farage's supporters (and all of the media) will be laughing out loud at it.
    That might not be the stroke of genius that the nutjob right expect it to be. There are plenty of examples of insults that were turned into badges of honour or affection. And I'm sure that the tiggers won't object to the free advertising.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 19,885

    What an utter ****show. The brexiteers had the thing they wanted, and in pure greed and hubris they've thrown it all away.


    They deserve it.

    Did they and have they ? Seems to me the game is just beginning.

    State of play - no May Brexit but....

    The EU want us out.

    Winning an election on remain is impossible - not the case 3 years ago.

    Wet Conservatism is dead as an electoral force.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 36,408

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'm still laughing that they clearly didn't run their new name past anyone familiar with Urban Dictionary before announcing it. CUKs indeed.
    I think they should have stuck with Tiggers. It was nice and easy on the tongue and gave rise to many awesome puns about bounces, tails, Winnie elections...
    Indeed. TIG worked well as a brand.

    I'd guess that they couldn't register "The Independent Group" as a party name with the Electoral Commission though, as it could be confused with the description commonly used by candidates of no party affiliation. Memories of the "Literal Democrats" that led to the law on party name registration.
    Could they not have been labelled as 'TIG' on ballots?

    I fear Change UK is a flop as a name.
    A gift to the headline writers, however.
  • isamisam Posts: 25,352
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:



    Precisely.

    The public needs to have this repeated over and over. The Brexiteers have betrayed brexit. No one else.

    That isn't true. The ERG have betrayed Brexit but they are not alone. All of those who voted to oppose May's deal betrayed Brexit. And they continue to do so.

    Unless you are the SNP and (to an extent) the Lib Dems who were elected on different platforms no MP should have voted against May's deal unless they were confident that there was an alternative Brexit that commanded a majority in the House. Which there wasn't. The conduct of our political class has been shameful and the damage to our democracy profound.
    Every time Leavers said Mrs May's deal was worse than Remaining they gave succour to others to oppose the deal.

    Plus Labour's manifesto was clear and gave Labour cover to oppose Mrs May's deal.
    It only gives succor if you think the likes of JRM or Francois or Baker have ever said anything worth listening to in their lives. If you don't (and who would) its just a pathetic excuse.

    As for Labour they committed themselves to honouring the Brexit vote. If they hadn't even May might have got a majority. Of course they had their own ideas of how Brexit should be done but those ideas are only relevant if there is a majority in the House for them. Which there isn't. It did not give them cover to stop Brexit or let the morons stop it either.
    It wasn't just them, two of Mrs May's Brexit Secretaries, and her former Foreign Secretary said the same.
    So what? The people were asked and they answered. The answer was close so a softer Brexit than Boris claimed and Raab and Davies actually wanted wasn't a reasonable response or a reason to reject the deal that had actually been negotiated. These excuses for not doing what they promised when elected are just pathetic. And what trust there ever was in our political class has been destroyed as a result.
    Political anoraks are splitting hairs trying to manoeuvre into a partisan blame game while the other 99.9% of the populace will be blaming the political class as a whole
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 5,418
    To be totally honest, I'm beginning to find this funny. Brave Sir Macron riding to the rescue to save the fair damsel, Remain. by plunging his fiery lance into the foul dragon, Leave.

    It was the 90 votes of ERG wot swung it for Remain not the massed ranks of Labour, LD, SNP et al.

    So too will end the independence hopes of those knavish Jocks who will be brought to heel.

    Someone should write a book about it. Damn that George R R Martin.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 3,656

    Just learnt a new modern techie word - "sealioning"

    And where did you hear that? Do you have any references?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 48,591
    Mr. Sandpit, yeah, Tiggers sound fun and energetic.

    CUKs sound a bit, er... well...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'm still laughing that they clearly didn't run their new name past anyone familiar with Urban Dictionary before announcing it. CUKs indeed.
    Maybe I'm reading too much into it but it might be reflective of their limited bubble, they also didn't want too much member interfecence (being part of their problem with their old parties) so it seems to be pretty much the MPs who defected, none of which are generally considered stand out names and some advisers from the New Labour era. They are mostly intelligent and educated people but there is a very limited perspective there.

    Edit: Also yes I could have cheered (if I wasn't laughing so much) when I heard the name.
    It should have been blindingly obvious to them that, if we get EU elections, Farage is going to spend the next two months calling them the EU's CUKs at every opportunity.

    None of them will get the joke, but most of Farage's supporters (and all of the media) will be laughing out loud at it.
    That might not be the stroke of genius that the nutjob right expect it to be. There are plenty of examples of insults that were turned into badges of honour or affection. And I'm sure that the tiggers won't object to the free advertising.
    It's unfortunately appropriate for them. While they thought Corbyn was working with the Labour party, he was in reality getting it on with a load of extremists.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 24,908

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'm still laughing that they clearly didn't run their new name past anyone familiar with Urban Dictionary before announcing it. CUKs indeed.
    Maybe I'm reading too much into it but it might be reflective of their limited bubble, they also didn't want too much member interfecence (being part of their problem with their old parties) so it seems to be pretty much the MPs who defected, none of which are generally considered stand out names and some advisers from the New Labour era. They are mostly intelligent and educated people but there is a very limited perspective there.

    Edit: Also yes I could have cheered (if I wasn't laughing so much) when I heard the name.
    It should have been blindingly obvious to them that, if we get EU elections, Farage is going to spend the next two months calling them the EU's CUKs at every opportunity.

    None of them will get the joke, but most of Farage's supporters (and all of the media) will be laughing out loud at it.
    That might not be the stroke of genius that the nutjob right expect it to be. There are plenty of examples of insults that were turned into badges of honour or affection. And I'm sure that the tiggers won't object to the free advertising.
    "Fire up the Quattro"
  • isamisam Posts: 25,352
    Scott_P said:
    The Diane Abbott it’s ok to hate
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 20,668

    Just learnt a new modern techie word - "sealioning"

    And where did you hear that? Do you have any references?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 6,794

    Just learnt a new modern techie word - "sealioning"

    And where did you hear that? Do you have any references?
    Had to look it up
    "Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility."
This discussion has been closed.