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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Telegraph piece backs 400/1 shot Mark Francois to be next CON

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  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Drutt said:

    MikeL said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Reporting here from planet normal (I’m with the in laws). Seems to me that most nonpolitical people have now largely forgotten about Brexit and assume it’s no longer happening.

    Anecdotal, obviously,

    At my work management meeting on Tuesday we agreed to drop Brexit risks from one of the 5 biggest risks facing the business down to 20th on the grounds that it was not imminent and might never happen. Nobody dissented from that analysis.
    It's going to be interesting to see how Brexit features in the news media going forward.

    For a long time now, it's been the number 1 story on TV news almost every single day.

    But TV news editors must be conscious that people have short attention spans and will be getting bored.

    If there's a short extension then of course it'll remain prominent. But if there's a long extension I do wonder whether TV news editors are going to dramatically reduce its prominence - and if they do then to some extent it may become a self-fulfilling prophecy - less publicity = people lose interest = people move onto other things = politicians move onto other things. And it's then less of a stretch to just not bother - forget it and abandon it.
    Yes this is quite a likely scenario I think. Up to now I have been expecting a second referendum but I am beginning to wonder if there will just be an endless series of extensions and eventually A50 will be revoked because everyone will have forgotten what was the point of leaving in the first place.
    The campaigners' reports from the doorsteps do rather suggest otherwise.
    Campaigners’ reports from the doorstep miraculously reflect their own views 99% of the time. It’s just one of those inexplicable coincidences.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    BBC says 17 countries so far arguing for long extension.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765


    The famous “chemist” Elena Ceausescu amassed over a hundred honorary degrees and honorary professorships.

    She was honoured by the UK’s Royal Institute for Chemistry and the University of London for her “distinguished scientific achievements in macromolecular chemistry”.

    I think I rest my case. It is better to get rid of these “honours” which demean the giver, but pander to the vanity of the recipient.

    There is no need for honorary degrees or honorary professorships or honorary anything.

    IIRC, scientists in concentration camps had to write dissertations which were then published under her name.

    She really got what she deserved at the end.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    HYUFD said:
    It may well be that what concerns the other leaders more is less Britain's position but why France is so keen to see Britain out. If they feel that this is a power play by France to grab more power within the EU that may push the others into pushing back against French demands, purely to stop Macron behaving like the effective ruler of the EU.

    I must say that were I the EU I would be tempted to say that I have little faith that the WA will be voted on by Parliament and that the only real choice is either a WA approved in a referendum or Revoke or No Deal and that the extension is being given to allow time for one of these three choices to be made. This fiction about talks leading to a PD which will allow MPs to vote for a WA they have rejected three times already is just that, a fiction.

  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Someone should do a cartoon where the men in white coats and the men in grey suits all arrive at No 10 at once, only to discover May is on a walking holiday in Wales.
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 703
    glw said:

    The fact that discussions are still going suggests that they are going better than I would have expected.
    Polly Toynbee thinks it’s a cross-party ruse to get the extension.
  • IanB2 said:

    BBC says 17 countries so far arguing for long extension.

    But what are their conditions and are they legal.

    You cannot restrict a full member or their meps if they want to be difficult. The ECJ would throw them out of court
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    It's a two quid bet at those odds, for sure. How quickly we forget... Did anybody really see Corbyn coming?

    Diane Abbott did.
    Well, I walked into that one :D
    What were you doing in East Germany?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    edited April 2019
    IanB2 said:

    BBC says 17 countries so far arguing for long extension.

    Macron could did his heels in but given his commitment to the European federalist ideal I'm guessing he will concede to the majority.

    Not sure if I can manage to stay up late enough to find out tonight.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Sean_F said:

    blueblue said:

    HYUFD said:
    Is Westminster a better school than Eton? Discuss....
    Westminster and Christ Church certainly beats Eton and Trinity (Trinity Oxford at least; Trinity Cambridge would tie).
    UCS and Exeter beats both.
    Goodness! Were you a UCS boy?


    My education was mostly from the books I took out of Swiss Cottage library. Oh - and poetry books. Plus the very odd collection of novels and history books my Italian family had.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited April 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:
    It may well be that what concerns the other leaders more is less Britain's position but why France is so keen to see Britain out. If they feel that this is a power play by France to grab more power within the EU that may push the others into pushing back against French demands, purely to stop Macron behaving like the effective ruler of the EU.

    I must say that were I the EU I would be tempted to say that I have little faith that the WA will be voted on by Parliament and that the only real choice is either a WA approved in a referendum or Revoke or No Deal and that the extension is being given to allow time for one of these three choices to be made. This fiction about talks leading to a PD which will allow MPs to vote for a WA they have rejected three times already is just that, a fiction.

    Tony Blair has been "advising" Macron (but we don't know what he's been saying) of course... ;)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,040
    _Anazina_ said:

    Someone should do a cartoon where the men in white coats and the men in grey suits all arrive at No 10 at once, only to discover May is on a walking holiday in Wales.
    :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:
    It may well be that what concerns the other leaders more is less Britain's position but why France is so keen to see Britain out. If they feel that this is a power play by France to grab more power within the EU that may push the others into pushing back against French demands, purely to stop Macron behaving like the effective ruler of the EU.

    I must say that were I the EU I would be tempted to say that I have little faith that the WA will be voted on by Parliament and that the only real choice is either a WA approved in a referendum or Revoke or No Deal and that the extension is being given to allow time for one of these three choices to be made. This fiction about talks leading to a PD which will allow MPs to vote for a WA they have rejected three times already is just that, a fiction.

    I think enough Labour MPs from Leave seats would vote for the Deal over Revoke or No Deal, it may be May leaves MPs to make the final decision on the PD
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    IanB2 said:

    BBC says 17 countries so far arguing for long extension.

    But what are their conditions and are they legal.

    You cannot restrict a full member or their meps if they want to be difficult. The ECJ would throw them out of court
    We don't know if they have any conditions but if they do and they are illegal, they won't matter because the ECJ will quash them.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    IanB2 said:

    BBC says 17 countries so far arguing for long extension.

    Macron could did his heels in but given his commitment to the European federalist ideal I'm guessing he will concede to the majority.

    Not sure if I can manage to stay up late enough to find out tonight.
    Macca should call their bluff and go longer - 12 April 2021.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    _Anazina_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    BBC says 17 countries so far arguing for long extension.

    Macron could did his heels in but given his commitment to the European federalist ideal I'm guessing he will concede to the majority.

    Not sure if I can manage to stay up late enough to find out tonight.
    Macca should call their bluff and go longer - 12 April 2021.
    It would get my vote.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    _Anazina_ said:

    blueblue said:

    HYUFD said:
    Is Westminster a better school than Eton? Discuss....
    Westminster and Christ Church certainly beats Eton and Trinity (Trinity Oxford at least; Trinity Cambridge would tie).
    What you want is a grubby comp in a nondescript midlands town. Unbeatable.
    Come on, I know it's nothing special, but there's no need to be so mean to Rugby.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574

    IanB2 said:

    BBC says 17 countries so far arguing for long extension.

    But what are their conditions and are they legal.

    You cannot restrict a full member or their meps if they want to be difficult. The ECJ would throw them out of court
    You can make the continued extension dependent on conditions being met, though, without legally restricting anything. You just need the threat of ending the extension.
    The ECJ would have no input.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,678
    ydoethur said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Two public schoolboys arguing over which of them went to a ‘better’ school. Even PB’s falsely modest Cowley Tech / Fen Poly wank is more bearable.

    And pointless. After all, we all know the greatest university in the world is Aberystwyth.
    CORRECT (Except Neil Hamilton went there too).
  • IanB2 said:

    BBC says 17 countries so far arguing for long extension.

    But what are their conditions and are they legal.

    You cannot restrict a full member or their meps if they want to be difficult. The ECJ would throw them out of court
    We don't know if they have any conditions but if they do and they are illegal, they won't matter because the ECJ will quash them.
    Good for us to agree again Ben
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    edited April 2019

    IanB2 said:

    BBC says 17 countries so far arguing for long extension.

    But what are their conditions and are they legal.

    You cannot restrict a full member or their meps if they want to be difficult. The ECJ would throw them out of court
    We don't know if they have any conditions but if they do and they are illegal, they won't matter because the ECJ will quash them.
    Good for us to agree again Ben
    Yes indeed - I must have overlooked your last sentence - sorry.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,398
    edited April 2019
    That would be a triumph for her, at least as far as her tenure as PM goes.
    She knows we get reports of what she says to the EU, right? In what universe does the WA pass? Not one where we have a long extension, that's for sure.

  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    HYUFD said:
    How does 17 for long and one for short leave the room leaning towards short, that's clever.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    ydoethur said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Two public schoolboys arguing over which of them went to a ‘better’ school. Even PB’s falsely modest Cowley Tech / Fen Poly wank is more bearable.

    And pointless. After all, we all know the greatest university in the world is Aberystwyth.
    CORRECT (Except Neil Hamilton went there too).
    He went to Cambridge as well. They keep very quiet about it.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    Drutt said:

    MikeL said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Reporting here from planet normal (I’m with the in laws). Seems to me that most nonpolitical people have now largely forgotten about Brexit and assume it’s no longer happening.

    Anecdotal, obviously,

    At my work management meeting on Tuesday we agreed to drop Brexit risks from one of the 5 biggest risks facing the business down to 20th on the grounds that it was not imminent and might never happen. Nobody dissented from that analysis.
    It's going to be interesting to see how Brexit features in the news media going forward.

    For a long time now, it's been the number 1 story on TV news almost every single day.

    But TV news editors must be conscious that people have short attention spans and will be getting bored.

    If there's a short extension then of course it'll remain prominent. But if there's a long extension I do wonder whether TV news editors are going to dramatically reduce its prominence - and if they do then to some extent it may become a self-fulfilling prophecy - less publicity = people lose interest = people move onto other things = politicians move onto other things. And it's then less of a stretch to just not bother - forget it and abandon it.
    Yes this is quite a likely scenario I think. Up to now I have been expecting a second referendum but I am beginning to wonder if there will just be an endless series of extensions and eventually A50 will be revoked because everyone will have forgotten what was the point of leaving in the first place.
    The campaigners' reports from the doorsteps do rather suggest otherwise.
    I think people are both fed up and becoming disinterested with the minutiae but also incredulous that Parliament is unable to reach a consensus after the instruction.
  • Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    BBC says 17 countries so far arguing for long extension.

    But what are their conditions and are they legal.

    You cannot restrict a full member or their meps if they want to be difficult. The ECJ would throw them out of court
    You can make the continued extension dependent on conditions being met, though, without legally restricting anything. You just need the threat of ending the extension.
    The ECJ would have no input.
    You cannot threaten a member with meps and paying into the budget, it would be thrown out of court
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Michael Crick, Channel 4 News’s political correspondent since 2011, has abruptly parted company with the broadcaster.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/10/michael-crick-makes-surprise-exit-from-channel-4-news
  • HYUFD said:
    How does 17 for long and one for short leave the room leaning towards short, that's clever.
    This is the EU remember
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    blueblue said:

    HYUFD said:
    Is Westminster a better school than Eton? Discuss....
    Westminster and Christ Church certainly beats Eton and Trinity (Trinity Oxford at least; Trinity Cambridge would tie).
    UCS and Exeter beats both.
    Goodness! Were you a UCS boy?


    My education was mostly from the books I took out of Swiss Cottage library. Oh - and poetry books. Plus the very odd collection of novels and history books my Italian family had.
    From 1978 to 1985
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Nigelb said:
    These EU dinners sound like a decent way to do business to me. Cognac and cigars shortly, followed by cabaret, burlesque and a jazz band.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    HYUFD said:
    How does 17 for long and one for short leave the room leaning towards short, that's clever.
    I think it's '3 open but leaning towards short'.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695

    Michael Crick, Channel 4 News’s political correspondent since 2011, has abruptly parted company with the broadcaster.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/10/michael-crick-makes-surprise-exit-from-channel-4-news

    Something about to come out in the Sunday papers? :D
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Scott_P said:
    Macron will insist on it taking in the Tour de France.....
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    HYUFD said:
    How does 17 for long and one for short leave the room leaning towards short, that's clever.
    I think it's '3 open but leaning towards short'.
    Ah I see, that makes more sense, thanks!!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    BBC says 17 countries so far arguing for long extension.

    But what are their conditions and are they legal.

    You cannot restrict a full member or their meps if they want to be difficult. The ECJ would throw them out of court
    You can make the continued extension dependent on conditions being met, though, without legally restricting anything. You just need the threat of ending the extension.
    The ECJ would have no input.
    You cannot threaten a member with meps and paying into the budget, it would be thrown out of court
    That does not seem to be the situation.
    They are (potentially) offering an extension voluntarily, in return for the UK voluntarily offering not to exercise some of its membership rights.
    That does not prevent the UK exercising those rights - and in turn that would not prevent the 27 ending the extension (presumably at checkpoints to be agreed as part of the deal).

    I’m not in favour of any of this, but I don’t see that the ECJ would prevent it.

  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    “Brexit delay beyond 30 June would 'jeopardise EU', says Macron”
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    We know what the EU council had for dinner but do we know what Mrs May and her advisers ate? It could be her last supper as PM.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    blueblue said:

    HYUFD said:
    Is Westminster a better school than Eton? Discuss....
    Westminster and Christ Church certainly beats Eton and Trinity (Trinity Oxford at least; Trinity Cambridge would tie).
    UCS and Exeter beats both.
    Goodness! Were you a UCS boy?


    My education was mostly from the books I took out of Swiss Cottage library. Oh - and poetry books. Plus the very odd collection of novels and history books my Italian family had.
    From 1978 to 1985
    Thanks. My two sons went there and I was at South Hampstead. Small world etc....
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    BBC says 17 countries so far arguing for long extension.

    But what are their conditions and are they legal.

    You cannot restrict a full member or their meps if they want to be difficult. The ECJ would throw them out of court
    You can make the continued extension dependent on conditions being met, though, without legally restricting anything. You just need the threat of ending the extension.
    The ECJ would have no input.
    You cannot threaten a member with meps and paying into the budget, it would be thrown out of court
    That does not seem to be the situation.
    They are (potentially) offering an extension voluntarily, in return for the UK voluntarily offering not to exercise some of its membership rights.
    That does not prevent the UK exercising those rights - and in turn that would not prevent the 27 ending the extension (presumably at checkpoints to be agreed as part of the deal).

    I’m not in favour of any of this, but I don’t see that the ECJ would prevent it.

    It is a very grey area much like all of brexit
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    Scott_P said:
    Control comes when we have actually left and released ourselves from the grip of the EU
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    brendan16 said:

    We know what the EU council had for dinner but do we know what Mrs May and her advisers ate? It could be her last supper as PM.

    Eton Mess.
  • Time to bid good night folks

    Who knows where we go from here

    Have a great nights rest everyone
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456

    brendan16 said:

    We know what the EU council had for dinner but do we know what Mrs May and her advisers ate? It could be her last supper as PM.

    Eton Mess.
    Lol
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,040
    Telegraph:

    New bid to oust Theresa May as MPs attempt to gather 10,000 signatures to change the Tory constitution
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    blueblue said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    blueblue said:

    HYUFD said:
    Is Westminster a better school than Eton? Discuss....
    Westminster and Christ Church certainly beats Eton and Trinity (Trinity Oxford at least; Trinity Cambridge would tie).
    What you want is a grubby comp in a nondescript midlands town. Unbeatable.
    Come on, I know it's nothing special, but there's no need to be so mean to Rugby.
    Obviously talking about Oundle.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Telegraph:

    New bid to oust Theresa May as MPs attempt to gather 10,000 signatures to change the Tory constitution

    Where do I sign?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    Time to bid good night folks

    Who knows where we go from here

    Have a great nights rest everyone

    You too Big_G!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    brendan16 said:

    We know what the EU council had for dinner but do we know what Mrs May and her advisers ate? It could be her last supper as PM.

    Eton Mess.
    more like crow pie
  • Katya Adler of the BBC, and the best journalist on European affairs, has just said on the BBC it is going to be a very long night

  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    T
    TOPPING said:

    blueblue said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    blueblue said:

    HYUFD said:
    Is Westminster a better school than Eton? Discuss....
    Westminster and Christ Church certainly beats Eton and Trinity (Trinity Oxford at least; Trinity Cambridge would tie).
    What you want is a grubby comp in a nondescript midlands town. Unbeatable.
    Come on, I know it's nothing special, but there's no need to be so mean to Rugby.
    Obviously talking about Oundle.
    Uppingham.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    GIN1138 said:

    Michael Crick, Channel 4 News’s political correspondent since 2011, has abruptly parted company with the broadcaster.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/10/michael-crick-makes-surprise-exit-from-channel-4-news

    Something about to come out in the Sunday papers? :D
    Crick crocked?


    Where's my coat?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,040
    The level of lunacy probably goes up as the pubs shut and the home drinking kicks in.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    HYUFD said:
    How does 17 for long and one for short leave the room leaning towards short, that's clever.
    Perhaps Germany said short?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    Um no. Given we are still members, what this shows is that inside the EU we have no control at all. This situation is a perfect example of what it will be like permanently for the UK if we do not leave now.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    _Anazina_ said:

    T

    TOPPING said:

    blueblue said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    blueblue said:

    HYUFD said:
    Is Westminster a better school than Eton? Discuss....
    Westminster and Christ Church certainly beats Eton and Trinity (Trinity Oxford at least; Trinity Cambridge would tie).
    What you want is a grubby comp in a nondescript midlands town. Unbeatable.
    Come on, I know it's nothing special, but there's no need to be so mean to Rugby.
    Obviously talking about Oundle.
    Uppingham.
    :wink:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,398
    brendan16 said:

    We know what the EU council had for dinner but do we know what Mrs May and her advisers ate? It could be her last supper as PM.

    Humble Pie
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    After she has burned the tory party to the ground and the country with it?
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,547
    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,574
    edited April 2019

    Um no. Given we are still members, what this shows is that inside the EU we have no control at all. This situation is a perfect example of what it will be like permanently for the UK if we do not leave now.
    It really isn’t.

    What we’re asking for is a temporary extension of our membership, which we have voluntarily taken steps to surrender. That has bugger all to do with our legal ability to exercise our membership rights while we are members.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,398

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    Well parliament has denuded her of all authority by not coming up with anything even after 'taking control', what's she supposed to do?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    HYUFD said:
    That's absurd. Sure, for domestic purpose he needs to give the impression that he fought tooth and nail against perfidious Albion. But there doesn't need to be any reality to it, they just need to smoke cigars, drink cognac and exchange salacious jokes for a few hours and then emerge looking dishevelled saying what a tough negotiation it was, but they managed to stay united.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Michael Crick, Channel 4 News’s political correspondent since 2011, has abruptly parted company with the broadcaster.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/10/michael-crick-makes-surprise-exit-from-channel-4-news

    Watch this space.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,398

    HYUFD said:
    That's absurd. Sure, for domestic purpose he needs to give the impression that he fought tooth and nail against perfidious Albion. But there doesn't need to be any reality to it, they just need to smoke cigars, drink cognac and exchange salacious jokes for a few hours and then emerge looking dishevelled saying what a tough negotiation it was, but they managed to stay united.
    Yes, I was thinking the same thing. If all it is that he needs to look the toughest on us for his domestic politics that's not that big a deal.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Marcon the hero of leave ? Tremendous..
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    Well parliament has denuded her of all authority by not coming up with anything even after 'taking control', what's she supposed to do?
    Precisely. The crowing of her opponents at the fact that they have put her in an impossible position, damaged the UK economy by the unnecessary uncertainty, and made the UK look ridiculous is disgraceful.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    #francois19
    #nodeal
    #keepitrightwing
    #watford2mancity0

    :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    No, that would be no Deal and the loss of Scotland and a United Ireland
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Ave_it said:

    #francois19
    #nodeal
    #keepitrightwing
    #watford2mancity0

    :lol:

    He's the man who can finally deliver Con Gain Bootle, right?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    Well parliament has denuded her of all authority by not coming up with anything even after 'taking control', what's she supposed to do?
    Precisely. The crowing of her opponents at the fact that they have put her in an impossible position, damaged the UK economy by the unnecessary uncertainty, and made the UK look ridiculous is disgraceful.
    Why was she so secretive about the deal ? Why did she think it would pass ? Was it stupidity or naivety? Why didn’t she get the DUP in the loop earlier ? Was the sign of losing so many ministers not a big frigging hint !?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Um no. Given we are still members, what this shows is that inside the EU we have no control at all. This situation is a perfect example of what it will be like permanently for the UK if we do not leave now.
    Surely inside the EU we would have a veto power exactly as every one of the 27 now has over us and the timeframe for our departure?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    Take back control seems to depend on whether the President of France enjoyed his dinner, but on a lighter note:

    https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1116085382788124673?s=19
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited April 2019

    Katya Adler of the BBC, and the best journalist on European affairs, has just said on the BBC it is going to be a very long night

    Mrs May might as well go out clubbing then as the night is still young. They can call her back in at 3am after she has finished her Kebab.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    edited April 2019

    Telegraph:

    New bid to oust Theresa May as MPs attempt to gather 10,000 signatures to change the Tory constitution

    Interesting. That's prompted me to take a look at the Conservative Party Constitution, which states that any proposed change has to be approved not by the membership but by the constitutional college and, crucially, there are various thresholds that have to be met. For a change to pass it has to be supported by:

    "not less than 50% of those members of the Constitutional College eligible to vote and...
    not less than 66% of Members of Parliament voting; and...
    not less than 66% of Members of the National Conservative Convention voting."

    ... so not necessarily that easy for the ERG mob to win.

    As an aside, what a shame similar thresholds were not in place for the constitutional change prompted by the EU Ref!
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,547
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    No, that would be no Deal and the loss of Scotland and a United Ireland
    But that is a hypothetical. Todays events in Brussels are reality.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    HYUFD said:

    Um no. Given we are still members, what this shows is that inside the EU we have no control at all. This situation is a perfect example of what it will be like permanently for the UK if we do not leave now.
    Surely inside the EU we would have a veto power exactly as every one of the 27 now has over us and the timeframe for our departure?
    If we revoke, then yes, but if on a flextension can reasonably be excluded from many decisions.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    HYUFD said:
    That's absurd. Sure, for domestic purpose he needs to give the impression that he fought tooth and nail against perfidious Albion. But there doesn't need to be any reality to it, they just need to smoke cigars, drink cognac and exchange salacious jokes for a few hours and then emerge looking dishevelled saying what a tough negotiation it was, but they managed to stay united.
    Sounds like you’ve been to one of these EU shindigs before Richard!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited April 2019
    TGOHF said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    Well parliament has denuded her of all authority by not coming up with anything even after 'taking control', what's she supposed to do?
    Precisely. The crowing of her opponents at the fact that they have put her in an impossible position, damaged the UK economy by the unnecessary uncertainty, and made the UK look ridiculous is disgraceful.
    Why was she so secretive about the deal ? Why did she think it would pass ? Was it stupidity or naivety? Why didn’t she get the DUP in the loop earlier ? Was the sign of losing so many ministers not a big frigging hint !?
    Sure, but Labour aren't opposing it because they don't think it's a good deal (it's virtually indistinguishable from their proposal, inasmuch as their proposal isn't fantasy), they are opposing it for the sake of opposing it. Fair enough, you might say, but let's not pretend that the 'humiliation' is caused by anything other than Labour cynically teaming up with the ERG nutters.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,040
    Kate Hoey on Newsnight looks dressed for a funeral. Presumably for her fantasy unicorn No Deal Brexit nonsense.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,398
    edited April 2019

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    Well parliament has denuded her of all authority by not coming up with anything even after 'taking control', what's she supposed to do?
    Precisely. The crowing of her opponents at the fact that they have put her in an impossible position, damaged the UK economy by the unnecessary uncertainty, and made the UK look ridiculous is disgraceful.
    It's not even about defending her really, I don't think there are many who would suggest her approach and tactics have been blameless in all this, she is PM after all, but when some of those so entranced by the humilating position she is in very much contributed to that position I don't think it really holds up. It's humiliating, yes, but the reason it is happening is so far everyone has failed. Her more than most? Who cares.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2019
    Jezza's mates detaining and beating their own people for daring to protest....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIBVa5wkXc8
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:
    That's absurd. Sure, for domestic purpose he needs to give the impression that he fought tooth and nail against perfidious Albion. But there doesn't need to be any reality to it, they just need to smoke cigars, drink cognac and exchange salacious jokes for a few hours and then emerge looking dishevelled saying what a tough negotiation it was, but they managed to stay united.
    Sounds like you’ve been to one of these EU shindigs before Richard!
    Luckily not, but if there's a pressing need to find candidates for the European elections, I am prepared, for the sake of the country and the party, to sacrifice my own interests to the higher good and spend a few months investing taxpayers' money in the Michelin-starred restaurants of Brussels and Strasbourg.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    TGOHF said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    Well parliament has denuded her of all authority by not coming up with anything even after 'taking control', what's she supposed to do?
    Precisely. The crowing of her opponents at the fact that they have put her in an impossible position, damaged the UK economy by the unnecessary uncertainty, and made the UK look ridiculous is disgraceful.
    Why was she so secretive about the deal ? Why did she think it would pass ? Was it stupidity or naivety? Why didn’t she get the DUP in the loop earlier ? Was the sign of losing so many ministers not a big frigging hint !?
    Sure, but Labour aren't opposing it because they don't think it's a good deal (it's virtually indistinguishable from their proposal, inasmuch as their proposal isn't fantasy), they are opposing it for the sake of opposing it. Fair enough, you might say, but let's not pretend that the 'humiliation' is caused by anything other than Labour cynically teaming up with the ERG nutters.
    No, the PD is crucial. Tories cannot be trusted to keep their word, indeed several high profile ones have already threatened to reneg on the PD. Labour are right to stick out for CU and retention of workers, consumer and environmental rights, and they need to have a lock on it.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    brendan16 said:

    Katya Adler of the BBC, and the best journalist on European affairs, has just said on the BBC it is going to be a very long night

    Mrs May might as well go out clubbing then as the night is still young. They can call her back in at 3am after she has finished her Kebab.
    She’ll be at a raunchy after party in the DJ’s penthouse flat by then.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    TGOHF said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    Well parliament has denuded her of all authority by not coming up with anything even after 'taking control', what's she supposed to do?
    Precisely. The crowing of her opponents at the fact that they have put her in an impossible position, damaged the UK economy by the unnecessary uncertainty, and made the UK look ridiculous is disgraceful.
    Why was she so secretive about the deal ? Why did she think it would pass ? Was it stupidity or naivety? Why didn’t she get the DUP in the loop earlier ? Was the sign of losing so many ministers not a big frigging hint !?
    Sure, but Labour aren't opposing it because they don't think it's a good deal (it's virtually indistinguishable from their proposal, inasmuch as their proposal isn't fantasy), they are opposing it for the sake of opposing it. Fair enough, you might say, but let's not pretend that the 'humiliation' is caused by anything other than Labour cynically teaming up with the ERG nutters.
    I think you mean: "... The ERG nutters cynically teaming up with the Official Opposition."
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    If there are 316 Tory MPs is an achievement to be a 400/1 shot for next leader.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Foxy said:

    TGOHF said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    Well parliament has denuded her of all authority by not coming up with anything even after 'taking control', what's she supposed to do?
    Precisely. The crowing of her opponents at the fact that they have put her in an impossible position, damaged the UK economy by the unnecessary uncertainty, and made the UK look ridiculous is disgraceful.
    Why was she so secretive about the deal ? Why did she think it would pass ? Was it stupidity or naivety? Why didn’t she get the DUP in the loop earlier ? Was the sign of losing so many ministers not a big frigging hint !?
    Sure, but Labour aren't opposing it because they don't think it's a good deal (it's virtually indistinguishable from their proposal, inasmuch as their proposal isn't fantasy), they are opposing it for the sake of opposing it. Fair enough, you might say, but let's not pretend that the 'humiliation' is caused by anything other than Labour cynically teaming up with the ERG nutters.
    No, the PD is crucial. Tories cannot be trusted to keep their word, indeed several high profile ones have already threatened to reneg on the PD. Labour are right to stick out for CU and retention of workers, consumer and environmental rights, and they need to have a lock on it.
    Poppycock, the PD can't be locked down. A parliament can't bind its successors, and the EU won't discuss anything substantive until we've left. The Labour position is just a cynical excuse to cause trouble, and everyone knows it.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    TGOHF said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    Well parliament has denuded her of all authority by not coming up with anything even after 'taking control', what's she supposed to do?
    Precisely. The crowing of her opponents at the fact that they have put her in an impossible position, damaged the UK economy by the unnecessary uncertainty, and made the UK look ridiculous is disgraceful.
    Why was she so secretive about the deal ? Why did she think it would pass ? Was it stupidity or naivety? Why didn’t she get the DUP in the loop earlier ? Was the sign of losing so many ministers not a big frigging hint !?
    Sure, but Labour aren't opposing it because they don't think it's a good deal (it's virtually indistinguishable from their proposal, inasmuch as their proposal isn't fantasy), they are opposing it for the sake of opposing it. Fair enough, you might say, but let's not pretend that the 'humiliation' is caused by anything other than Labour cynically teaming up with the ERG nutters.
    I think you mean: "... The ERG nutters cynically teaming up with the Official Opposition."
    Yes, you are right.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    .

    _Anazina_ said:

    HYUFD said:
    That's absurd. Sure, for domestic purpose he needs to give the impression that he fought tooth and nail against perfidious Albion. But there doesn't need to be any reality to it, they just need to smoke cigars, drink cognac and exchange salacious jokes for a few hours and then emerge looking dishevelled saying what a tough negotiation it was, but they managed to stay united.
    Sounds like you’ve been to one of these EU shindigs before Richard!
    Luckily not, but if there's a pressing need to find candidates for the European elections, I am prepared, for the sake of the country and the party, to sacrifice my own interests to the higher good and spend a few months investing taxpayers' money in the Michelin-starred restaurants of Brussels and Strasbourg.
    A noble gesture.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    TGOHF said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    Well parliament has denuded her of all authority by not coming up with anything even after 'taking control', what's she supposed to do?
    Precisely. The crowing of her opponents at the fact that they have put her in an impossible position, damaged the UK economy by the unnecessary uncertainty, and made the UK look ridiculous is disgraceful.
    Why was she so secretive about the deal ? Why did she think it would pass ? Was it stupidity or naivety? Why didn’t she get the DUP in the loop earlier ? Was the sign of losing so many ministers not a big frigging hint !?
    Sure, but Labour aren't opposing it because they don't think it's a good deal (it's virtually indistinguishable from their proposal, inasmuch as their proposal isn't fantasy), they are opposing it for the sake of opposing it. Fair enough, you might say, but let's not pretend that the 'humiliation' is caused by anything other than Labour cynically teaming up with the ERG nutters.
    That is what oppositions do! I remember Labour causing troubles on the Maastricht treaty in the 1990s because they sensed an opportunity, not because they sided with nutters. This mess over Brexit is a ERG/DUP problem. A Tory acquaintance of mine who is deeply involved in the party blames constituency associations for selecting people obsessed with Europe. There are some who use Europe to get on within the party and some whose whole belief system revolves around the 'problem' of Europe and they will obsess whether the UK is in the EU or outside it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Scott_P said:
    The most humiliating experience for a British PM in modern history. Arguably the most humiliating episode for the UK since the loss of the American colonies 236 years ago.
    And do those take back controllers really think it will be different during our forthcoming negotiations?
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    If Theresa can avoid EU for 25 hours it's no deal!
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    IDS anyone. The Tories are loony enough to do it again.
This discussion has been closed.