See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
The SNP topped the poll by some distance in the 2017 local elections. The Conservatives were fourth behind Labour and the Greens. The Lib Dems were further behind an Independent.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
May’s deal was negotiated by politicians, and hated by a large enough number of Brexiteers to make it toxic to have imposed it like that.
I don’t think there is enough time for us to have a referendum by the end of October. No I may be wrong but even setting the question takes a few months
Of course there is. Our MPs just need to take their collective fingers out of their arses and get on with it. But as they couldn’t run a bath without getting the coast guard involved .......
So given it's April now unless we voted for it tomorrow it's unlikely we could have a referendum in time although that could be a justification to delay things until December while holding it in November.
In normal times. But these aren’t normal times so I’m sure the process could be expedited.
IIRC the 1975 referendum process was much shorter than 24 weeks. And before FTPA the formal general election process could be as short as 3 weeks - the Feb 1974 election campaign was exactly 3 weeks from announcement to polling day.
The SNP topped the poll by some distance in the 2017 local elections. The Conservatives were fourth behind Labour and the Greens. The Lib Dems were further behind an Independent.
I don’t think there is enough time for us to have a referendum by the end of October. No I may be wrong but even setting the question takes a few months
Of course there is. Our MPs just need to take their collective fingers out of their arses and get on with it. But as they couldn’t run a bath without getting the coast guard involved .......
So given it's April now unless we voted for it tomorrow it's unlikely we could have a referendum in time although that could be a justification to delay things until December while holding it in November.
In normal times. But these aren’t normal times so I’m sure the process could be expedited.
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
MPs:....but we reserve the right to fuck about if they AGAIN have the temerity to come back with an answer we don't like.
What has become clear since June 2016 is that MPs REALLY don't like democracy.
I always considered that it was one of the fundamental tenets of our democracy that if x was voted for, x would be delivered no matter how dreadful an idea it turns out to be (Electing Corbyn will fall into this category perhaps). To not leave the EU would be to fundamentally break with that principle. Now I know May has played her hand very poorly indeed, but her deal simply must go through.
I think the whips office should look into Anne Marie Morris' comments this morning - when a Tory MP is asked who they'll vote for in an election for the answer not to instantly be the Conservatives is beyond reproach. She should have the whip withdrawn.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
How naïve is that? Leaving aside trying to bypass a parliament elected more recently than the referendum, can you imagine the fuss Francois and Cash and co. would have created? The government would have been collapsed by now.
I don’t think there is enough time for us to have a referendum by the end of October. No I may be wrong but even setting the question takes a few months
Of course there is. Our MPs just need to take their collective fingers out of their arses and get on with it. But as they couldn’t run a bath without getting the coast guard involved .......
So given it's April now unless we voted for it tomorrow it's unlikely we could have a referendum in time although that could be a justification to delay things until December while holding it in November.
As they appear to be set on an Easter break, such precipitate behaviour would seem out of character...
I actually think they need a break. Go back to the constituencies and find out what people think outside the Bubble.
Taking a week off for Easter to refresh, reflect and talk to constituents would be very sensible. Spending a couple of weeks at Easter, another for May, two weeks for Whitsun, 6 weeks for summer holidays, and four weeks for conference season may not be the best use of the next 6 months however.
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
MPs:....but we reserve the right to fuck about if they AGAIN have the temerity to come back with an answer we don't like.
What has become clear since June 2016 is that MPs REALLY don't like democracy.
I always considered that it was one of the fundamental tenets of our democracy that if x was voted for, x would be delivered no matter how dreadful an idea it turns out to be (Electing Corbyn will fall into this category perhaps). To not leave the EU would be to fundamentally break with that principle. Now I know May has played her hand very poorly indeed, but her deal simply must go through.
I think the whips office should look into Anne Marie Morris' comments this morning - when a Tory MP is asked who they'll vote for in an election for the answer not to instantly be the Conservatives is beyond reproach. She should have the whip withdrawn.
I suspect at least 100 Tory MPs would need the whip withdrawing regarding the Euro elections. They have pledged to the voters that they would make our involvement in Euro elections a thing of the past - you could argue they would be hypocrites to vote in them at all.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
I don't think they do, any more. That's the Tories' real problem; they may end up imposing something upon the country that by the time we get to it is overwhelmingly unwanted.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
MPs:....but we reserve the right to fuck about if they AGAIN have the temerity to come back with an answer we don't like.
What has become clear since June 2016 is that MPs REALLY don't like democracy.
I always considered that it was one of the fundamental tenets of our democracy that if x was voted for, x would be delivered no matter how dreadful an idea it turns out to be (Electing Corbyn will fall into this category perhaps). To not leave the EU would be to fundamentally break with that principle. Now I know May has played her hand very poorly indeed, but her deal simply must go through.
I think the whips office should look into Anne Marie Morris' comments this morning - when a Tory MP is asked who they'll vote for in an election for the answer not to instantly be the Conservatives is beyond reproach. She should have the whip withdrawn.
I suspect at least 100 Tory MPs would need the whip withdrawing regarding the Euro elections. They have pledged to the voters that they would make our involvement in Euro elections a thing of the past - you could argue they would be hypocrites to vote in them at all.
Yep - the Tory MP from Clywd interviewed yesterday refused to endorse the Tories for the Euros
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.
I see Heidi has fallen into the trap of naming possible defectors only for them to say no, we are staying put. On the other hand looks like they have started setting up local organisation - certainly in Heidi's patch they are set up, Fenland, west Norfolk etc
That is surely one of the biggest swings in a single poll ever recorded?
The Tory implosion at Westminster finally seems to be hitting the poll numbers.
Yes, finally looks plausible. And the erg intractable will say it shows what they want should happen even though polling was fine when May was trying to get her policy through rather than cut a deal.
What has caused the collapse is failure to leave, not disagreement with the terms of departure. ERG claims that they are/were motivated partly by electoral reasons are hollow. Had we left on March 29th under May’s deal the Brexit vote would be firmly behind the Conservatives for the foreseeable future. Labour would be splintering into about 6 pieces.
She sold it really badly. Everything about the deal was negative which put the backs up of Remainers. It was sold as the hardest of hard Brexits to appeal to her lunatic fringe which it wasn't but it gave the middle ground a reason to fight it.
I think your rosé tinted glasses and affecting your judgement. If it were sold as the hardest of hard brexits then the would have supported it. Unfortunately May is apologetic in a British way and failed to sell it as the compromise it was. She highlighted her red lines rather than explaining why it was a compromise.
The real difficulty for May is that she has to get 300+ votes from around 450 who might vote for the deal - the rest either openly want to revoke, or remain via a further referendum ( I’ve still not met anyone who voted Leave who wants a second referendum). So in effect she is trying to get a super majority of 2/3rds for a compromise deal which no one likes but maybe most could live with. That is difficult for anyone no matter how competent.
I think we're saying the same thing. It was the emphasis on the red lines rather than the compromise that put so many middle-of-the-roaders off.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
I don't think they do, any more. That's the Tories' real problem; they may end up imposing something upon the country that by the time we get to it is overwhelmingly unwanted.
That’s exactly why the EU should have pushed the extension even further. Support for Brexit is only going one way...
Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.
Well, if you need lots of it you need a sodding great factory to make it in, you need a supply chain to get the right sort of wood from (assuming it's made of wood and we have the right sort of wood in the UK) and you need a distribution network to deliver it to the arse-wiping community. All that takes more than a couple of months to arrange. Or perhaps a lot of little local artisans would start hand crafting it for their villages?
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.
Nah - pointless - MPs don't care about referendum results that's clear. Question or format is irrelevant.
The voters trust has gone - referendums are a waste of time.
That is surely one of the biggest swings in a single poll ever recorded?
The Tory implosion at Westminster finally seems to be hitting the poll numbers.
Yes, finally looks plausible. And the erg intractable will say it shows what they want should happen even though polling was fine when May was trying to get her policy through rather than cut a deal.
What has caused the collapse is failure to leave, not disagreement with the terms of departure. ERG claims that they are/were motivated partly by electoral reasons are hollow. Had we left on March 29th under May’s deal the Brexit vote would be firmly behind the Conservatives for the foreseeable future. Labour would be splintering into about 6 pieces.
She sold it really badly. Everything about the deal was negative which put the backs up of Remainers. It was sold as the hardest of hard Brexits to appeal to her lunatic fringe which it wasn't but it gave the middle ground a reason to fight it.
I think your rosé tinted glasses and affecting your judgement. If it were sold as the hardest of hard brexits then the would have supported it. Unfortunately May is apologetic in a British way and failed to sell it as the compromise it was. She highlighted her red lines rather than explaining why it was a compromise.
The real difficulty for May is that she has to get 300+ votes from around 450 who might vote for the deal - the rest either openly want to revoke, or remain via a further referendum ( I’ve still not met anyone who voted Leave who wants a second referendum). So in effect she is trying to get a super majority of 2/3rds for a compromise deal which no one likes but maybe most could live with. That is difficult for anyone no matter how competent.
It comes back to the failure to establish an enquiry into what options were feasible. As a result, we have some red lines Theresa May plucked out of thin air, and 650 unicorns because most MPs of whatever stripe have never had to engage in the detail.
Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.
You would have thought finally someone would have found a use for the Express.
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.
So leavers should be clamouring for ref no 2 - it really is their best and last chance. If they can bring themselves to face the notion that voting may not be the most undemocratic activity known to man.
My worry about this extention is that it's long enough to keep things into the semi-long grass, and its so easy for MPs to think 'we need a rest, lets look at it in the summer', and then come September time, we're in the same place.
Well, not if you believe what the EU are saying on post nodeal trade talks, even though their position is nonsensical.
Ie. “no commencing of trade talks without a “backstop” for Ireland”. A backstop to what, is somewhat unclear - a failure to agree a trade deal, so no deal situation continues...?
Which is indeed why there is no reason to believe them.
Don't overlook the fact that the EU blinked yesterday. An extension to UK membership was agreed, without any attempt to impose conditions. That reflects the concern of the 27 EU states at the prospect of the UK leaving without having our hands tied first for the negotiations that would follow.
Indeed. The EU have massively overplayed their hand in the negotiations, and now try and blame the UK PM for her failure to carry the supplicantary deal through her own Parliament.
TM has of course failed and needs to go, mainly for spending two years saying that no deal was better than a bad deal - while doing almost nothing to actually prepare for that eventuality.
The huge advantage of no-deal now would be that the negotiations would become more equal, with both sides keen to resolve ongoing disruption.
Anyway, work won't do itself. Laters.
In practical terms, what could the government actually do to prepare for no deal that we have not done? As far as I can tell we have spent around £2bn specifically on no deal. How many people should we have employed and trained to do customs and tariffs checks. How would we train them to deal with the Irish border when no-one is willing to say how it would operate? How would it take account of any "mini-deals" that we hope to sign? Like most of brexit, the headline is fine, but if you drill into the detail there are often few good answers.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.
So leavers should be clamouring for ref no 2 - it really is their best and last chance. If they can bring themselves to face the notion that voting may not be the most undemocratic activity known to man.
Why would a leaver or a remainer want another referendum ? MPs could change the result either way.
This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.
How big a disaster will the local elections have to be for May to understand how much she's hated?
I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles. For ordinary voters I genuinely don't think May is the problem - indeed her popularity is above that of her party. It's the general mess that Brexit has turned into and the endless infighting within government - that has hit the party's ratings, and I doubt changing leader would make much difference without a resolution.
Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.
Well, if you need lots of it you need a sodding great factory to make it in, you need a supply chain to get the right sort of wood from (assuming it's made of wood and we have the right sort of wood in the UK) and you need a distribution network to deliver it to the arse-wiping community. All that takes more than a couple of months to arrange. Or perhaps a lot of little local artisans would start hand crafting it for their villages?
Why do people keep coming up with these little piffling details, rather than concentrating on the majestic concept of Britain, free to follow her destiny at last? Of what importance is personal hygiene, compared to that?
This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.
How big a disaster will the local elections have to be for May to understand how much she's hated?
I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles. For ordinary voters I genuinely don't think May is the problem - indeed her popularity is above that of her party. It's the general mess that Brexit has turned into and the endless infighting within government - that has hit the party's ratings, and I doubt changing leader would make much difference without a resolution.
This must be the first political event where the leader is blameless. St Maybot the unlucky did everything she could but those dreadful voters and MPs who she didn't consult didn't bend to her will..
Also by "preparing" for no deal, in addition to spending public money on something unlikely to happen or be of any use (until recently something the Conservative party would rightly flag and complain about), each pound spent by the govt on no deal would result in less business investment in the real economy (again, a sector that until recently the Conservative party would try to support).
I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles.
David Davis in the Nigel Fucking Farage slot on R4 this morning claiming a different leader could renegotiate the backstop.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.
So leavers should be clamouring for ref no 2 - it really is their best and last chance. If they can bring themselves to face the notion that voting may not be the most undemocratic activity known to man.
Why would a leaver or a remainer want another referendum ? MPs could change the result either way.
An Angus Reid opinion poll carries more weight.
Wrong. As with the AV referendum you write the result into the Act - if Leave has a majority the PM shall immediately sign up to the WA in schedule 1 of this Act. If they don't, business as usual.
"A longer #Brexit extension would have been better! But #Macron prioritized his own election campaign and interests over European unity. #UK now needs to use new deadline to either decide on the case or a political path forward. Good news: time should be sufficient for that. #EUCO"
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.
How big a disaster will the local elections have to be for May to understand how much she's hated?
I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles. For ordinary voters I genuinely don't think May is the problem - indeed her popularity is above that of her party. It's the general mess that Brexit has turned into and the endless infighting within government - that has hit the party's ratings, and I doubt changing leader would make much difference without a resolution.
This must be the first political event where the leader is blameless. St Maybot the unlucky did everything she could but those dreadful voters and MPs who she didn't consult didn't bend to her will..
I am not saying she is blameless - for those of us following the story in detail, she has clearly made some bad misjudgements, which have been spelled out at length here.
I am saying that many of the general public, who aren't into the detail and mostly not fanatical about the outcome one way or the other, see a woman in an almost impossible situation trying to do her best, surrounded by uncompromising mostly men. It may be sympathy moving on pity, but the polls suggest she is propping up Tory ratings rather than the reverse. I haven't heard a single person in the flesh saying they think she should go. It's all Tory activists on ConHome and Mailonline.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.
Well, if you need lots of it you need a sodding great factory to make it in, you need a supply chain to get the right sort of wood from (assuming it's made of wood and we have the right sort of wood in the UK) and you need a distribution network to deliver it to the arse-wiping community. All that takes more than a couple of months to arrange. Or perhaps a lot of little local artisans would start hand crafting it for their villages?
It's not as if the materials are difficult to obtain.
Possibly, there is a form of artisan or craft toilet paper that can only be obtained from abroad, but most arse-wipers aren't bothered about that.
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.
So leavers should be clamouring for ref no 2 - it really is their best and last chance. If they can bring themselves to face the notion that voting may not be the most undemocratic activity known to man.
Why would a leaver or a remainer want another referendum ? MPs could change the result either way.
An Angus Reid opinion poll carries more weight.
Wrong. As with the AV referendum you write the result into the Act - if Leave has a majority the PM shall immediately sign up to the WA in schedule 1 of this Act. If they don't, business as usual.
Acts schmacts - we were told that the Govt would implement what was decided in the last referendum.
Good luck selling "it's different this time" on the doorstep.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
Sam did you answer (apologies you may have) the question as to whether from here, from this point on, would you prefer to or be happy to have a "no deal"?
I think I did answer, I didn’t want no deal but it should have been the default if parliament wouldn’t agree Mays Deal. Now the people who try to block the ref vote have no downside, it’s a free hit for them. A complete stitch up.
The whole point of the referendum was to take it out of politicians hands, but they can’t bring themselves to behave.
Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.
You would have thought finally someone would have found a use for the Express.
Japanese lavatories incorporating bidets are the way to go. I draw the line at wiping newsprint on my arse.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
May’s deal was negotiated by politicians, and hated by a large enough number of Brexiteers to make it toxic to have imposed it like that.
They should never have got a vote on it. At that point they stole the power promised by them to the electorate
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
The Tories best bet imo is to lose a VONC, abstain on Corbyn confidence until they have a new leader then VONC him out and fight the GE, or enjoy watching labour implode in government. Both main parties on about 30 with no standout third party is a sorry state of affairs. I'd expect a swing back to both main parties in a GE though to 35 or a bit more each. If the Tories could get 30% against Blair with a big third party score they must get 35 min vs Corbyn!
"A longer #Brexit extension would have been better! But #Macron prioritized his own election campaign and interests over European unity. #UK now needs to use new deadline to either decide on the case or a political path forward. Good news: time should be sufficient for that. #EUCO"
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
How naïve is that? Leaving aside trying to bypass a parliament elected more recently than the referendum, can you imagine the fuss Francois and Cash and co. would have created? The government would have been collapsed by now.
This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.
How big a disaster will the local elections have to be for May to understand how much she's hated?
I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles. For ordinary voters I genuinely don't think May is the problem - indeed her popularity is above that of her party. It's the general mess that Brexit has turned into and the endless infighting within government - that has hit the party's ratings, and I doubt changing leader would make much difference without a resolution.
This must be the first political event where the leader is blameless. St Maybot the unlucky did everything she could but those dreadful voters and MPs who she didn't consult didn't bend to her will..
I am not saying she is blameless - for those of us following the story in detail, she has clearly made some bad misjudgements, which have been spelled out at length here.
I am saying that many of the general public, who aren't into the detail and mostly not fanatical about the outcome one way or the other, see a woman in an almost impossible situation trying to do her best, surrounded by uncompromising mostly men. It may be sympathy moving on pity, but the polls suggest she is propping up Tory ratings rather than the reverse. I haven't heard a single person in the flesh saying they think she should go.
Quite right. In fact they'd be mad to get rid of her. She is unique in that she can credibly make the case to the undecided either for remaining or for leaving with a particular deal - in the latter case especially so if she can pull off an agreement with the Labour Party as part of the package. Most people don't care too much about the details but they'd trust someone who has obviously put a lot of work in and who has never seemed to have much of an axe to grind and who most importantly is clearly loathed by the extremists. I don't think any kind of Brexit can now be delivered without May.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
May’s deal was negotiated by politicians, and hated by a large enough number of Brexiteers to make it toxic to have imposed it like that.
They should never have got a vote on it. At that point they stole the power promised by them to the electorate
So anything May decided to put in her deal would have been acceptable to you and she should have had the power to bypass parliament?
The SNP topped the poll by some distance in the 2017 local elections. The Conservatives were fourth behind Labour and the Greens. The Lib Dems were further behind an Independent.
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.
So leavers should be clamouring for ref no 2 - it really is their best and last chance. If they can bring themselves to face the notion that voting may not be the most undemocratic activity known to man.
Why would a leaver or a remainer want another referendum ? MPs could change the result either way.
An Angus Reid opinion poll carries more weight.
Wrong. As with the AV referendum you write the result into the Act - if Leave has a majority the PM shall immediately sign up to the WA in schedule 1 of this Act. If they don't, business as usual.
Acts schmacts - we were told that the Govt would implement what was decided in the last referendum.
Good luck selling "it's different this time" on the doorstep.
No, it can be done in an entirely tamper proof manner provided you have a specific wording of the withdrawal agreement written in to the Act. That's what parliamentary sovereignty means.
I don't think they do, any more. That's the Tories' real problem; they may end up imposing something upon the country that by the time we get to it is overwhelmingly unwanted.
The Euros (assuming they happen) might be illuminating on this point.
LD + CHANGE versus UKIP + BREXIT.
A clear 'win' for one side or the other will need to be taken seriously.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
May’s deal was negotiated by politicians, and hated by a large enough number of Brexiteers to make it toxic to have imposed it like that.
They should never have got a vote on it. At that point they stole the power promised by them to the electorate
So anything May decided to put in her deal would have been acceptable to you and she should have had the power to bypass parliament?
This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.
How big a disaster will the local elections have to be for May to understand how much she's hated?
I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles. For ordinary voters I genuinely don't think May is the problem - indeed her popularity is above that of her party. It's the general mess that Brexit has turned into and the endless infighting within government - that has hit the party's ratings, and I doubt changing leader would make much difference without a resolution.
This must be the first political event where the leader is blameless. St Maybot the unlucky did everything she could but those dreadful voters and MPs who she didn't consult didn't bend to her will..
I am not saying she is blameless - for those of us following the story in detail, she has clearly made some bad misjudgements, which have been spelled out at length here.
I am saying that many of the general public, who aren't into the detail and mostly not fanatical about the outcome one way or the other, see a woman in an almost impossible situation trying to do her best, surrounded by uncompromising mostly men. It may be sympathy moving on pity, but the polls suggest she is propping up Tory ratings rather than the reverse. I haven't heard a single person in the flesh saying they think she should go.
Quite right. In fact they'd be mad to get rid of her. She is unique in that she can credibly make the case to the undecided either for remaining or for leaving with a particular deal - in the latter case especially so if she can pull off an agreement with the Labour Party as part of the package. Most people don't care too much about the details but they'd trust someone who has obviously put a lot of work in and who has never seemed to have much of an axe to grind and who most importantly is clearly loathed by the extremists. I don't think any kind of Brexit can now be delivered without May.
The best chance of stopping Brexit is keeping May in power - hence why Remainers are her biggest fans all of a sudden.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
An EU election poll from Yougov. It's a bit odd as they've not excluded don't knows, and they've included a generic Stay in the EU Party option. FWIW, and excluding don't knows:-
Con 18%, Lab 18%, Brexit Party 17% Stay in the EU Party 17%, UKIP 10%, Green 9% Lib Dem 9%.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
Sam did you answer (apologies you may have) the question as to whether from here, from this point on, would you prefer to or be happy to have a "no deal"?
I think I did answer, I didn’t want no deal but it should have been the default if parliament wouldn’t agree Mays Deal. Now the people who try to block the ref vote have no downside, it’s a free hit for them. A complete stitch up.
The whole point of the referendum was to take it out of politicians hands, but they can’t bring themselves to behave.
What’s the point in returning powers to Westminster if its inhabitants behave without a shred of integrity?
Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.
Well, if you need lots of it you need a sodding great factory to make it in, you need a supply chain to get the right sort of wood from (assuming it's made of wood and we have the right sort of wood in the UK) and you need a distribution network to deliver it to the arse-wiping community. All that takes more than a couple of months to arrange. Or perhaps a lot of little local artisans would start hand crafting it for their villages?
It's not as if the materials are difficult to obtain.
Possibly, there is a form of artisan or craft toilet paper that can only be obtained from abroad, but most arse-wipers aren't bothered about that.
This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.
How big a disaster will the local elections have to be for May to understand how much she's hated?
I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles. For ordinary voters I genuinely don't think May is the problem - indeed her popularity is above that of her party. It's the general mess that Brexit has turned into and the endless infighting within government - that has hit the party's ratings, and I doubt changing leader would make much difference without a resolution.
This must be the first political event where the leader is blameless. St Maybot the unlucky did everything she could but those dreadful voters and MPs who she didn't consult didn't bend to her will..
I am not saying she is blameless - for those of us following the story in detail, she has clearly made some bad misjudgements, which have been spelled out at length here.
I am saying that many of the general public, who aren't into the detail and mostly not fanatical about the outcome one way or the other, see a woman in an almost impossible situation trying to do her best, surrounded by uncompromising mostly men. It may be sympathy moving on pity, but the polls suggest she is propping up Tory ratings rather than the reverse. I haven't heard a single person in the flesh saying they think she should go.
Quite right. In fact they'd be mad to get rid of her. She is unique in that she can credibly make the case to the undecided either for remaining or for leaving with a particular deal - in the latter case especially so if she can pull off an agreement with the Labour Party as part of the package. Most people don't care too much about the details but they'd trust someone who has obviously put a lot of work in and who has never seemed to have much of an axe to grind and who most importantly is clearly loathed by the extremists. I don't think any kind of Brexit can now be delivered without May.
And it's very unlikely any kind of Brexit can be delivered with her. Labour will not sign up to a deal because May cannot guarantee that her party will not rip it up the minute she steps down and without Labour support she cannot find a parliamentary majority for any form of Brexit.
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.
So leavers should be clamouring for ref no 2 - it really is their best and last chance. If they can bring themselves to face the notion that voting may not be the most undemocratic activity known to man.
Why would a leaver or a remainer want another referendum ? MPs could change the result either way.
An Angus Reid opinion poll carries more weight.
Wrong. As with the AV referendum you write the result into the Act - if Leave has a majority the PM shall immediately sign up to the WA in schedule 1 of this Act. If they don't, business as usual.
Acts schmacts - we were told that the Govt would implement what was decided in the last referendum.
Good luck selling "it's different this time" on the doorstep.
No, it can be done in an entirely tamper proof manner provided you have a specific wording of the withdrawal agreement written in to the Act. That's what parliamentary sovereignty means.
You as an informed politics nerd might get that but the voters won't care. They will see it rightly as a stitch up.
Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.
Well, if you need lots of it you need a sodding great factory to make it in, you need a supply chain to get the right sort of wood from (assuming it's made of wood and we have the right sort of wood in the UK) and you need a distribution network to deliver it to the arse-wiping community. All that takes more than a couple of months to arrange. Or perhaps a lot of little local artisans would start hand crafting it for their villages?
It's not as if the materials are difficult to obtain.
Possibly, there is a form of artisan or craft toilet paper that can only be obtained from abroad, but most arse-wipers aren't bothered about that.
And the factory and machinery?
We actually have factories that produce toilet paper in the UK.
How did everyone vote in 2016 and what would they do in a further referendum? I’d love to know how many have changed their. I don’t. I’ll start
Remain, then WA or remain if Remain vs no deal
No deal, then no deal. 2nd ref should be May's deal or no deal as we've already voted to leave. Anything else makes the first referendum meaningless. If there's a ref with remain as an option and it passes do we try best out of three?
An EU election poll from Yougov. It's a bit odd as they've not excluded don't knows, and they've included a generic Stay in the EU Party option. FWIW, and excluding don't knows:-
Con 18%, Lab 18%, Brexit Party 17% Stay in the EU Party 17%, UKIP 10%, Green 9% Lib Dem 9%.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
Sam did you answer (apologies you may have) the question as to whether from here, from this point on, would you prefer to or be happy to have a "no deal"?
I think I did answer, I didn’t want no deal but it should have been the default if parliament wouldn’t agree Mays Deal. Now the people who try to block the ref vote have no downside, it’s a free hit for them. A complete stitch up.
The whole point of the referendum was to take it out of politicians hands, but they can’t bring themselves to behave.
No that is not an answer. Not what should have happened. Do you want or would you be happy with no deal now?
This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.
How big a disaster will the local elections have to be for May to understand how much she's hated?
snip.
This must be the first political event where the leader is blameless. St Maybot the unlucky did everything she could but those dreadful voters and MPs who she didn't consult didn't bend to her will..
I am not saying she is blameless - for those of us following the story in detail, she has clearly made some bad misjudgements, which have been spelled out at length here.
I am saying that many of the general public, who aren't into the detail and mostly not fanatical about the outcome one way or the other, see a woman in an almost impossible situation trying to do her best, surrounded by uncompromising mostly men. It may be sympathy moving on pity, but the polls suggest she is propping up Tory ratings rather than the reverse. I haven't heard a single person in the flesh saying they think she should go.
Quite right. In fact they'd be mad to get rid of her. She is unique in that she can credibly make the case to the undecided either for remaining or for leaving with a particular deal - in the latter case especially so if she can pull off an agreement with the Labour Party as part of the package. Most people don't care too much about the details but they'd trust someone who has obviously put a lot of work in and who has never seemed to have much of an axe to grind and who most importantly is clearly loathed by the extremists. I don't think any kind of Brexit can now be delivered without May.
And it's very unlikely any kind of Brexit can be delivered with her. Labour will not sign up to a deal because May cannot guarantee that her party will not rip it up the minute she steps down and without Labour support she cannot find a parliamentary majority for any form of Brexit.
Labour again chasing unicorns. Burgon was called on it on r4 this morning with no answer - no government can tie the hands of its successor. Perhaps labour want this so when they get in they can ignore this
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
Sam did you answer (apologies you may have) the question as to whether from here, from this point on, would you prefer to or be happy to have a "no deal"?
I think I did answer, I didn’t want no deal but it should have been the default if parliament wouldn’t agree Mays Deal. Now the people who try to block the ref vote have no downside, it’s a free hit for them. A complete stitch up.
The whole point of the referendum was to take it out of politicians hands, but they can’t bring themselves to behave.
No that is not an answer. Not what should have happened. Do you want or would you be happy with no deal now?
An EU election poll from Yougov. It's a bit odd as they've not excluded don't knows, and they've included a generic Stay in the EU Party option. FWIW, and excluding don't knows:-
Con 18%, Lab 18%, Brexit Party 17% Stay in the EU Party 17%, UKIP 10%, Green 9% Lib Dem 9%.
Couldn't really be more split if it tried.
I don't think I have ever seen an opinion poll where a hypothetical party scores 17%.
An EU election poll from Yougov. It's a bit odd as they've not excluded don't knows, and they've included a generic Stay in the EU Party option. FWIW, and excluding don't knows:-
Con 18%, Lab 18%, Brexit Party 17% Stay in the EU Party 17%, UKIP 10%, Green 9% Lib Dem 9%.
Couldn't really be more split if it tried.
I don't think I have ever seen an opinion poll where a hypothetical party scores 17%.
Or where both Tory and Labour are below 20%. Amazing.
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
Sam did you answer (apologies you may have) the question as to whether from here, from this point on, would you prefer to or be happy to have a "no deal"?
I think I did answer, I didn’t want no deal but it should have been the default if parliament wouldn’t agree Mays Deal. Now the people who try to block the ref vote have no downside, it’s a free hit for them. A complete stitch up.
The whole point of the referendum was to take it out of politicians hands, but they can’t bring themselves to behave.
No that is not an answer. Not what should have happened. Do you want or would you be happy with no deal now?
See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you. Public: A massive turnout and a decision made. MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision. MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.
What do we want? Brexit! What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
Sam did you answer (apologies you may have) the question as to whether from here, from this point on, would you prefer to or be happy to have a "no deal"?
I think I did answer, I didn’t want no deal but it should have been the default if parliament wouldn’t agree Mays Deal. Now the people who try to block the ref vote have no downside, it’s a free hit for them. A complete stitch up.
The whole point of the referendum was to take it out of politicians hands, but they can’t bring themselves to behave.
No that is not an answer. Not what should have happened. Do you want or would you be happy with no deal now?
Rather than not leaving, yes
Tx
Although I don’t want it or would be particularly happy about it, I back the deal.
Comments
Nor did it include Brexit.
Without either party the numbers are Con 35%, Lib Dem 11%, Labour 34%.
What % of the public voted for each?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_City_of_Edinburgh_Council_election#Leith_Walk
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.
Waste of time and money.
I think the whips office should look into Anne Marie Morris' comments this morning - when a Tory MP is asked who they'll vote for in an election for the answer not to instantly be the Conservatives is beyond reproach. She should have the whip withdrawn.
The voters trust has gone - referendums are a waste of time.
"Binding" - lol.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/11/israel-folaus-rugby-career-on-the-line-amid-criticism-over-more-anti-gay-posts
An Angus Reid opinion poll carries more weight.
https://twitter.com/Staedtler/status/1116243065021325312
Dunno, I guess the DUP will vote for her new Queen's Speech in exchange for more bribes?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pkcHjmXmEg0
Is a Neapolitan who lived much of his life in Paris playing one of Elgar’s finest pieces “Salut d’amour”. For the love of your life.
It's willful idiocy.
See you there, TSE.
I've never been swayed by a religious dingbat claiming everyone who doesn't agree with them will burn in Hell forever.
The Germans are turning on the French...
I am saying that many of the general public, who aren't into the detail and mostly not fanatical about the outcome one way or the other, see a woman in an almost impossible situation trying to do her best, surrounded by uncompromising mostly men. It may be sympathy moving on pity, but the polls suggest she is propping up Tory ratings rather than the reverse. I haven't heard a single person in the flesh saying they think she should go. It's all Tory activists on ConHome and Mailonline.
Possibly, there is a form of artisan or craft toilet paper that can only be obtained from abroad, but most arse-wipers aren't bothered about that.
Good luck selling "it's different this time" on the doorstep.
The whole point of the referendum was to take it out of politicians hands, but they can’t bring themselves to behave.
Both main parties on about 30 with no standout third party is a sorry state of affairs. I'd expect a swing back to both main parties in a GE though to 35 or a bit more each. If the Tories could get 30% against Blair with a big third party score they must get 35 min vs Corbyn!
https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1116250659957948417
Heaven forbid
https://twitter.com/DanMcCroskrie/status/1115566444849377280
LD + CHANGE versus UKIP + BREXIT.
A clear 'win' for one side or the other will need to be taken seriously.
Caveat: Turnout.
Ozzies sportsmen always match fixing, cheating or being racist / homophobic.
An EU election poll from Yougov. It's a bit odd as they've not excluded don't knows, and they've included a generic Stay in the EU Party option. FWIW, and excluding don't knows:-
Con 18%,
Lab 18%,
Brexit Party 17%
Stay in the EU Party 17%,
UKIP 10%,
Green 9%
Lib Dem 9%.
Remain, then WA or remain if Remain vs no deal
NEW THREAD
Extra time now for Brits who want to escape the UK before the right wing coup is completed when the Tories put in Bozo or another nutjob .