"Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying."/blockquote> YouGov had the Brexit Party just 1% behind the Tories and Labour in its latest European Parliament elections poll. The Brexit Party also beat the Tories amongst Leavers
Referndum II? Is that Referendum I revoke? Did I miss that?
Ref 1 was in the 70s
Referendum II: Ref Harder. Referendum II: 2Ref 2Furious Referendum II: The Referendum Strikes Back Referendum II: Catching Fire Referendum II: The Dark Referendum Rises
Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the polling booth...
Referndum II? Is that Referendum I revoke? Did I miss that?
Ref 1 was in the 70s
Referendum II: Ref Harder. Referendum II: 2Ref 2Furious Referendum II: The Referendum Strikes Back Referendum II: Catching Fire Referendum II: The Dark Referendum Rises
Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the polling booth...
Referendum Referendums Referendum 3 Referendum Resurrection The Referendum
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If there was an election now I think Lab would win it: Assuming they won on a Cameronesque renegotiate+referendum, Remain fans would mostly suck it up and vote for them where it counted, whereas Brexit enthusiasts are seriously miffed at the government so it's hard to see them being tactical.
However, the problem with the bet is that the Tories are somewhat in control of when the next election happens, and they won't call one unless they either think they'll win it - most likely because they get a new leader - or they completely run out of road.
Huge assumption there - that the EU would renegotiate and that Labour would offer a referendum with Remain as a choice.
The WA is closed, but a different PD is very likely under Labour.
Indeed with CU, and close alignment locked into consumer, environmental and workers rights I could live with it. Clearly inferior to full membership, but streets ahead of Boris Britain.
But the WA is a legally binding Treaty, and the PD is meaningless political bollocks. At the insistance of the EU, who have all put their requests in the first document and all the British requests in the second.
Could someone in favour of a CU arrangement please state why it's a positively good idea.
Because 1) Conducting and concluding trade agreements is the one thing that the EU is positively, definitely, good at; 2) Although outside the CU we'd be better able to tailor deals to our own strengths, this benefit is probably roughly offset by the EU's heftier negotiating power; and 3) It will take us 10-20 years to redo all those deals anyway, so if we can get access cheaply via the EU in the meantime, we might as well.
But the EU deals wouldn’t apply to UK exports, only to UK imports. Ask Turkey what they think about that sort of arrangement with the EU. We’d have to pay duty on British cars exported to Japan, while Japanese cars come to the UK duty free, as they closed down their factories in the UK, with no UK say in that arrangement.
I know that’s the situation with the Turkish deal but is it a requirement of all customs unions?
I’m sure we could design something that worked. But I suspect the EU will demand FoM
What exactly is wrong with freedom of movement? CU+SM is clearly the way to go, respects Referendum II yet strikes a decent compromise and protects the economy.
EU immigration has fallen since the referendum largely because of May's red lines, which ironically now gives her more room to be flexible on them
If there was an election now I think Lab would win it: Assuming they won on a Cameronesque renegotiate+referendum, Remain fans would mostly suck it up and vote for them where it counted, whereas Brexit enthusiasts are seriously miffed at the government so it's hard to see them being tactical.
However, the problem with the bet is that the Tories are somewhat in control of when the next election happens, and they won't call one unless they either think they'll win it - most likely because they get a new leader - or they completely run out of road.
Huge assumption there - that the EU would renegotiate and that Labour would offer a referendum with Remain as a choice.
The WA is closed, but a different PD is very likely under Labour.
Indeed with CU, and close alignment locked into consumer, environmental and workers rights I could live with it. Clearly inferior to full membership, but streets ahead of Boris Britain.
But the WA is a legally binding Treaty, and the PD is meaningless political bollocks. At the insistance of the EU, who have all put their requests in the first document and all the British requests in the second.
Could someone in favour of a CU arrangement please state why it's a positively good idea.
Because 1) Conducting and concluding trade agreements is the one thing that the EU is positively, definitely, good at; 2) Although outside the CU we'd be better able to tailor deals to our own strengths, this benefit is probably roughly offset by the EU's heftier negotiating power; and 3) It will take us 10-20 years to redo all those deals anyway, so if we can get access cheaply via the EU in the meantime, we might as well.
But the EU deals wouldn’t apply to UK exports, only to UK imports. Ask Turkey what they think about that sort of arrangement with the EU. We’d have to pay duty on British cars exported to Japan, while Japanese cars come to the UK duty free, as they closed down their factories in the UK, with no UK say in that arrangement.
I know that’s the situation with the Turkish deal but is it a requirement of all customs unions?
I’m sure we could design something that worked. But I suspect the EU will demand FoM
What exactly is wrong with freedom of movement? CU+SM is clearly the way to go, respects Referendum II yet strikes a decent compromise and protects the economy.
Referndum II? Is that Referendum I revoke? Did I miss that?
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If these members wanted Brexit, then they needed to deliver a thumping Tory majority in GE2017. They didn't and so they made Brexit undeliverable. No amount of throwing toys out of the pram and electing Brexit Party MEPs (contradiction in terms much?) will make a damned bit of difference at this point.
Referndum II? Is that Referendum I revoke? Did I miss that?
Ref 1 was in the 70s
Referendum II: Ref Harder. Referendum II: 2Ref 2Furious Referendum II: The Referendum Strikes Back Referendum II: Catching Fire Referendum II: The Dark Referendum Rises
Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the polling booth...
Referendum Referendums Referendum 3 Referendum Resurrection The Referendum
Referendum Referendum Into Darkness Referendum Beyond
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If these members wanted Brexit, then they needed to deliver a thumping Tory majority in GE2017. They didn't and so they made Brexit undeliverable. No amount of throwing toys out of the pram and electing Brexit Party MEPs (contradiction in terms much?) will make a damned bit of difference at this point.
They all voted Tory and I expect campaigned for the Tories, it was May running the campaign and running Brexit or increasingly EU limbo now but yes the 2017 election result made a softer Brexit inevitable and May I think has come to recognise that
That reminds me of a story I head Jimmy Wales (the actual Wikipedia founder) tell.
He was arriving at Heathrow about five years ago, and was at the immigration counter. The officer said "Jimmy Wales, eh?", and he said "Yes, I founded Wikipedia"
The officer was confused, and thought this might be the same as Wikileaks, with the result he was selected for special processing for two or three hours. Pride, before a fall, and all that...
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If these members wanted Brexit, then they needed to deliver a thumping Tory majority in GE2017. They didn't and so they made Brexit undeliverable. No amount of throwing toys out of the pram and electing Brexit Party MEPs (contradiction in terms much?) will make a damned bit of difference at this point.
That begs the question of how these extra Tory MPs would have voted. They might have all been ERG headbangers, for instance. Does anyone know? It is the sort of survey one of the papers might have run.
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If these members wanted Brexit, then they needed to deliver a thumping Tory majority in GE2017. They didn't and so they made Brexit undeliverable. No amount of throwing toys out of the pram and electing Brexit Party MEPs (contradiction in terms much?) will make a damned bit of difference at this point.
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If these members wanted Brexit, then they needed to deliver a thumping Tory majority in GE2017. They didn't and so they made Brexit undeliverable. No amount of throwing toys out of the pram and electing Brexit Party MEPs (contradiction in terms much?) will make a damned bit of difference at this point.
That begs the question of how these extra Tory MPs would have voted. They might have all been ERG headbangers, for instance. Does anyone know? It is the sort of survey one of the papers might have run.
Some of the new intake were headbangers like Lee Rowley and Ross Thomson.
Referndum II? Is that Referendum I revoke? Did I miss that?
Ref 1 was in the 70s
Referendum II: Ref Harder. Referendum II: 2Ref 2Furious Referendum II: The Referendum Strikes Back Referendum II: Catching Fire Referendum II: The Dark Referendum Rises
Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the polling booth...
Referendum Referendums Referendum 3 Referendum Resurrection The Referendum
Referendum Referendum Into Darkness Referendum Beyond
The Motion Referendum The Wrath of Referendum The Search for Referendum The Referendum Home The Final Referendum The Undiscovered Referendum Star Trek: Referendums Star Trek: First Referendum Referendum: Insurrection Referendum: Nemesis
I see the pompous blowhard prig Faisal Islam is leaving Sky - thank god . Anyone know where he is going to bore up next ?
He is off to the BBC to become their economics editor replacing Kamal Ahmed. So you haven't heard the last of Faisal.
Anyone who remembers the exact moment the BBC announced leave had won at 4.40am on 24 June 2016 will remember they immediately turned to Kamal for his downbeat assessment of the economic impact of the result - so Faisal will suit the role very well.
Yep, what part of the Tory vote will vote for them - leave voters will tend to Nigel or UKIP depending on how well Nigel can highlight he isn’t in UKIP any more. Labour as I commented earlier can use a people’s vote to avoid committing to anything and remainers have Chuk and the lib dems to vote for (or SNP in Scotland).
No one has a reason to vote Tory in the Eu elections.
And that probably finally destroys May’s deal leaving us with referendum 2 between revoke and ?????
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If these members wanted Brexit, then they needed to deliver a thumping Tory majority in GE2017. They didn't and so they made Brexit undeliverable. No amount of throwing toys out of the pram and electing Brexit Party MEPs (contradiction in terms much?) will make a damned bit of difference at this point.
Alternatively, they needed to boot May out the morning sh lost the majority - and install Boris. At least Boris has a spcial relationship with the DUP. Boris in Brussels, with several DUP folks joining him - who knows how Brexit might have turned out differently.....
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If these members wanted Brexit, then they needed to deliver a thumping Tory majority in GE2017. They didn't and so they made Brexit undeliverable. No amount of throwing toys out of the pram and electing Brexit Party MEPs (contradiction in terms much?) will make a damned bit of difference at this point.
Alternatively, they needed to boot May out the morning sh lost the majority - and install Boris. At least Boris has a spcial relationship with the DUP. Boris in Brussels, with several DUP folks joining him - who knows how Brexit might have turned out differently.....
It couldn't have been worse.
Given the views and statements of some of his colleagues, Boris would quickly have lost the government's majority even with the DUP. Hard to see how that would have helped. Pretending another personality might have negated the inherent flaws of Brexit and its mandate is wishful thinking. Especially since at no stage has Boris shown any evidence of having a thought through position or plan.
If there was an election now I think Lab would win it: Assuming they won
However, the problem with the bet is that the Tories are somewhat in control of when the next election happens, and they won't call one unless they either think they'll win it - most likely because they get a new leader - or they completely run out of road.
Huge assumption there - that the EU would renegotiate and that Labour would offer a referendum with Remain as a choice.
The WA is closed, but a different PD is very likely under Labour.
Indeed with CU, and close alignment locked into consumer, environmental and workers rights I could live with it. Clearly inferior to full membership, but streets ahead of Boris Britain.
But the WA is a legally binding Treaty, and the PD is meaningless political bollocks. At the insistance of the EU, who have all put their requests in the first document and all the British requests in the second.
Could someone in favour of a CU arrangement please state why it's a positively good idea.
Because 1) Conducting and concluding trade agreements is the one thing that the EU is positively, definitely, good at; 2) Although outside the CU we'd be better able to tailor deals to our own strengths, this benefit is probably roughly offset by the EU's heftier negotiating power; and 3) It will take us 10-20 years to redo all those deals anyway, so if we can get access cheaply via the EU in the meantime, we might as well.
But the EU deals wouldn’t apply to UK exports, only to UK imports. Ask Turkey what they think about that sort of arrangement with the EU. We’d have to pay duty on British cars exported to Japan, while Japanese cars come to the UK duty free, as they closed down their factories in the UK, with no UK say in that arrangement.
I know that’s the situation with the Turkish deal but is it a requirement of all customs unions?
I’m sure we could design something that worked. But I suspect the EU will demand FoM
What exactly is wrong with freedom of movement? CU+SM is clearly the way to go, respects Referendum II yet strikes a decent compromise and protects the economy.
The issue isn’t with immigration but with FoM as the EU defines it.
We should be proud of our non contributory welfare system. But the perception that people who have not contributed to it draw from it undermines support for it.
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If these members wanted Brexit, then they needed to deliver a thumping Tory majority in GE2017. They didn't and so they made Brexit undeliverable. No amount of throwing toys out of the pram and electing Brexit Party MEPs (contradiction in terms much?) will make a damned bit of difference at this point.
Alternatively, they needed to boot May out the morning sh lost the majority - and install Boris. At least Boris has a spcial relationship with the DUP. Boris in Brussels, with several DUP folks joining him - who knows how Brexit might have turned out differently.....
It couldn't have been worse.
How has Boris a 'special relationship' with the DUP? The mind boggles.
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If these members wanted Brexit, then they needed to deliver a thumping Tory majority in GE2017. They didn't and so they made Brexit undeliverable. No amount of throwing toys out of the pram and electing Brexit Party MEPs (contradiction in terms much?) will make a damned bit of difference at this point.
Alternatively, they needed to boot May out the morning sh lost the majority - and install Boris. At least Boris has a spcial relationship with the DUP. Boris in Brussels, with several DUP folks joining him - who knows how Brexit might have turned out differently.....
It couldn't have been worse.
How has Boris a 'special relationship' with the DUP? The mind boggles.
Gee thanks, your venerable cheerful majesty. You just conjured an image of Boris and Arlene enjoying a 'special relationship.' It is an image I didn't need...
Referndum II? Is that Referendum I revoke? Did I miss that?
Ref 1 was in the 70s
Referendum II: Ref Harder. Referendum II: 2Ref 2Furious Referendum II: The Referendum Strikes Back Referendum II: Catching Fire Referendum II: The Dark Referendum Rises
Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the polling booth...
My choice is still Referendum II: This Time It's Personal
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If these members wanted Brexit, then they needed to deliver a thumping Tory majority in GE2017. They didn't and so they made Brexit undeliverable. No amount of throwing toys out of the pram and electing Brexit Party MEPs (contradiction in terms much?) will make a damned bit of difference at this point.
Alternatively, they needed to boot May out the morning sh lost the majority - and install Boris. At least Boris has a spcial relationship with the DUP. Boris in Brussels, with several DUP folks joining him - who knows how Brexit might have turned out differently.....
It couldn't have been worse.
How has Boris a 'special relationship' with the DUP? The mind boggles.
Gee thanks, your venerable cheerful majesty. You just conjured an image of Boris and Arlene enjoying a 'special relationship.' It is an image I didn't need...
Thought someone would bite. Thanks! Really made me chuckle on a bright, but chilly Spring morning.
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If these members wanted Brexit, then they needed to deliver a thumping Tory majority in GE2017. They didn't and so they made Brexit undeliverable. No amount of throwing toys out of the pram and electing Brexit Party MEPs (contradiction in terms much?) will make a damned bit of difference at this point.
Alternatively, they needed to boot May out the morning sh lost the majority - and install Boris. At least Boris has a spcial relationship with the DUP. Boris in Brussels, with several DUP folks joining him - who knows how Brexit might have turned out differently.....
It couldn't have been worse.
How has Boris a 'special relationship' with the DUP? The mind boggles.
Gee thanks, your venerable cheerful majesty. You just conjured an image of Boris and Arlene enjoying a 'special relationship.' It is an image I didn't need...
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If these members wanted Brexit, then they needed to deliver a thumping Tory majority in GE2017. They didn't and so they made Brexit undeliverable. No amount of throwing toys out of the pram and electing Brexit Party MEPs (contradiction in terms much?) will make a damned bit of difference at this point.
Alternatively, they needed to boot May out the morning sh lost the majority - and install Boris. At least Boris has a spcial relationship with the DUP. Boris in Brussels, with several DUP folks joining him - who knows how Brexit might have turned out differently.....
It couldn't have been worse.
How has Boris a 'special relationship' with the DUP? The mind boggles.
Gee thanks, your venerable cheerful majesty. You just conjured an image of Boris and Arlene enjoying a 'special relationship.' It is an image I didn't need...
Tory members tend hard right and are few in number. It would be funny if they vote against their own party to vote for one that - amazing as it might seem - is even more incompetent.
A matter for laughing, not crying.
If you think this attitude is limited to Tory members then you are in for a shock.
Great! The more people that vote for Farage’s quarterwits, the funnier it will be!
If these members wanted Brexit, then they needed to deliver a thumping Tory majority in GE2017. They didn't and so they made Brexit undeliverable. No amount of throwing toys out of the pram and electing Brexit Party MEPs (contradiction in terms much?) will make a damned bit of difference at this point.
Alternatively, they needed to boot May out the morning sh lost the majority - and install Boris. At least Boris has a spcial relationship with the DUP. Boris in Brussels, with several DUP folks joining him - who knows how Brexit might have turned out differently.....
It couldn't have been worse.
How has Boris a 'special relationship' with the DUP? The mind boggles.
Gee thanks, your venerable cheerful majesty. You just conjured an image of Boris and Arlene enjoying a 'special relationship.' It is an image I didn't need...
It really says something for the political cowardice of the Conservatives that they’ve done nothing to resist public lynchings of this sort over the last 8 years, and indeed given into them. Toby Young was another.
It really says something for the political cowardice of the Conservatives that they’ve done nothing to resist public lynchings of this sort over the last 8 years, and indeed given into them. Toby Young was another.
Latest poll very tight though, Conservatives 34.9%, Liberals 32.8% which almost certainly means the Liberals lose their majority but a hung Parliament not a Tory majority.
Mainstreet Research also has the Conservatives comfortably ahead in Alberta and the Prairies and the Liberals comfortably ahead in Quebec but it is close in British Columbia where the Conservatives narrowly lead and marginal seat rich Ontario, where the Liberals still hold a narrow lead and the Atlantic states
Like Australia which votes next month it still looks pretty close and Trudeau tends to retain a narrow lead as preferred PM
Canadian political culture is different to ours, though.
They think nothing of wildly zig-zagging their votes in the final 2 weeks so it’s hard to tell this far out.
I’d say Trudeau will hold with a drastically reduced majority.
I did wonder earlier here if HMG had focus-grouped this, as the political fallout is hard to predict. Remember an earlier Home Secretary, one Theresa May, famously blocked the extradition of an alleged hacker to the United States. Here there is skipping bail, whistleblower or useful idiot (or worse) of the Kremlin, and the rape allegations. Domestically we have our esteemed Home and Foreign Secretaries likely soon to be facing off for the premiership.
If there was an election now I think Lab would win it: Assuming they won on a Cameronesque renegotiate+referendum, Remain fans would mostly suck it up and vote for them where it counted, whereas Brexit enthusiasts are seriously miffed at the government so it's hard to see them being tactical.
However, the problem with the bet is that the Tories are somewhat in control of when the next election happens, and they won't call one unless they either think they'll win it - most likely because they get a new leader - or they completely run out of road.
Huge assumption there - that the EU would renegotiate and that Labour would offer a referendum with Remain as a choice.
The WA is closed, but a different PD is very likely under Labour.
Indeed with CU, and close alignment locked into consumer, environmental and workers rights I could live with it. Clearly inferior to full membership, but streets ahead of Boris Britain.
B
Could someone in favour of a CU arrangement please state why it's a positively good idea.
Becausewell.
Bu
I But I suspect the EU will demand FoM
What exactly is wrong with freedom of movement? CU+SM is clearly the way to go, respects Referendum II yet strikes a decent compromise and protects the economy.
One of May's mad red lines. Particularly mad as immigration from the rest of the world, for better or worse, is never ever reduced by the government at any time.
It can be increased though. If we lifted all immigration and visa restrictions from non-EU countries, and offered refuge to anyone who reached our doorstep, it would drastically increase.
Otherwise, immigration is largely driven by economics. So it will only drastically reduce if and when there is radical technological or economic change.
Latest poll very tight though, Conservatives 34.9%, Liberals 32.8% which almost certainly means the Liberals lose their majority but a hung Parliament not a Tory majority.
Mainstreet Research also has the Conservatives comfortably ahead in Alberta and the Prairies and the Liberals comfortably ahead in Quebec but it is close in British Columbia where the Conservatives narrowly lead and marginal seat rich Ontario, where the Liberals still hold a narrow lead and the Atlantic states
Like Australia which votes next month it still looks pretty close and Trudeau tends to retain a narrow lead as preferred PM
Canadian political culture is different to ours, though.
They think nothing of wildly zig-zagging their votes in the final 2 weeks so it’s hard to tell this far out.
I’d say Trudeau will hold with a drastically reduced majority.
I did wonder earlier here if HMG had focus-grouped this, as the political fallout is hard to predict. Remember an earlier Home Secretary, one Theresa May, famously blocked the extradition of an alleged hacker to the United States. Here there is skipping bail, whistleblower or useful idiot (or worse) of the Kremlin, and the rape allegations. Domestically we have our esteemed Home and Foreign Secretaries likely soon to be facing off for the premiership.
Huh? You're saying they should focus group arresting criminals? Seriously?!!!!
This is nothing to do with the government. It's a straightforward police matter. Although to judge from his public pronouncements, the NHS may need to be involved to have him sectioned.
It really says something for the political cowardice of the Conservatives that they’ve done nothing to resist public lynchings of this sort over the last 8 years, and indeed given into them. Toby Young was another.
You have to pick your battles
This is one I’d chose to fight.
I want more from a Conservative Government than to just act as economic cleaners.
It really says something for the political cowardice of the Conservatives that they’ve done nothing to resist public lynchings of this sort over the last 8 years, and indeed given into them. Toby Young was another.
You have to pick your battles
This is one I’d chose to fight.
I want more from a Conservative Government than to just act as economic cleaners.
Yes, but the mob will continue to howl and there is not much to gain. Scruton was naive and Eaton an embarrassment to journalists.
I did wonder earlier here if HMG had focus-grouped this, as the political fallout is hard to predict. Remember an earlier Home Secretary, one Theresa May, famously blocked the extradition of an alleged hacker to the United States. Here there is skipping bail, whistleblower or useful idiot (or worse) of the Kremlin, and the rape allegations. Domestically we have our esteemed Home and Foreign Secretaries likely soon to be facing off for the premiership.
Huh? You're saying they should focus group arresting criminals? Seriously?!!!!
This is nothing to do with the government. It's a straightforward police matter. Although to judge from his public pronouncements, the NHS may need to be involved to have him sectioned.
If you think PC Plod was negotiating with the Ecuadorian or American governments, dream on.
I did wonder earlier here if HMG had focus-grouped this, as the political fallout is hard to predict. Remember an earlier Home Secretary, one Theresa May, famously blocked the extradition of an alleged hacker to the United States. Here there is skipping bail, whistleblower or useful idiot (or worse) of the Kremlin, and the rape allegations. Domestically we have our esteemed Home and Foreign Secretaries likely soon to be facing off for the premiership.
Huh? You're saying they should focus group arresting criminals? Seriously?!!!!
This is nothing to do with the government. It's a straightforward police matter. Although to judge from his public pronouncements, the NHS may need to be involved to have him sectioned.
If you think PC Plod was negotiating with the Ecuadorian or American governments, dream on.
It really says something for the political cowardice of the Conservatives that they’ve done nothing to resist public lynchings of this sort over the last 8 years, and indeed given into them. Toby Young was another.
You have to pick your battles
This is one I’d chose to fight.
I want more from a Conservative Government than to just act as economic cleaners.
Yes, but the mob will continue to howl and there is not much to gain. Scruton was naive and Eaton an embarrassment to journalists.
In a mature and healthy democracy, fair and respectful interviews and conservation between people on either side of the political divide need to be able to take place without fear of sackings or lynching.
Otherwise dialogue closes down, and you have silence. That only leads to hardening of pre-existing partisan prejudices which leads to serious blind spots opening up in public policy that, over time, people start to challenge as illegitimate.
It really says something for the political cowardice of the Conservatives that they’ve done nothing to resist public lynchings of this sort over the last 8 years, and indeed given into them. Toby Young was another.
I rather think that for the women involved it is all about the rape charges. But what do women matter when there's a white guy who you've decided is on your side of the political divide to defend?
Decent ratio for Jezza on his tweet to be fair. Assange sounds like a shitty house guest but Corbyn has struck a chord with his implied concern about what many particularly on the left see as an overmighty US extradition system.
Except that the USA wasn't involved in the Assange case until today - everything up until now has been related to his charge of sexual assault in Sweden and of being unlawfully at large in the UK.
Oh, and Corbyn voted for that overmighty US extradition treaty, when the government of his party proposed it.
Really? I mean really? Are we really all going with this US wasn't involved thing?
It really says something for the political cowardice of the Conservatives that they’ve done nothing to resist public lynchings of this sort over the last 8 years, and indeed given into them. Toby Young was another.
Funny that, the 3 Pro EU parties improved their vote and the two pro Brexit parties suffer.
Clearly Brexit is of no relevance in Scotland.
That's an awful result for Labour. In 2012 they won two of the four seats in the ward after topping the poll on first preferences with 33.2% and they're continuing to slide away.
She was shocking and Humphries’ persistently stating that Assanfe wasn’t charged because in Sweden you need to be present to be charged is why we will miss him (Humphries) so much.
It really says something for the political cowardice of the Conservatives that they’ve done nothing to resist public lynchings of this sort over the last 8 years, and indeed given into them. Toby Young was another.
You have to pick your battles
This is one I’d chose to fight.
I want more from a Conservative Government than to just act as economic cleaners.
Yes, but the mob will continue to howl and there is not much to gain. Scruton was naive and Eaton an embarrassment to journalists.
In a mature and healthy democracy, fair and respectful interviews and conservation between people on either side of the political divide need to be able to take place without fear of sackings or lynching.
Otherwise dialogue closes down, and you have silence. That only leads to hardening of pre-existing partisan prejudices which leads to serious blind spots opening up in public policy that, over time, people start to challenge as illegitimate.
I agree. But this is a defensive fight on territory that your opponent has chosen. You expend political capital and leech energy and attention from you agenda to protect a pawn.
It really says something for the political cowardice of the Conservatives that they’ve done nothing to resist public lynchings of this sort over the last 8 years, and indeed given into them. Toby Young was another.
I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.
Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.
Yes, he nailed Brexit.
"Of comfort no man speak: Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs; Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
Decent ratio for Jezza on his tweet to be fair. Assange sounds like a shitty house guest but Corbyn has struck a chord with his implied concern about what many particularly on the left see as an overmighty US extradition system.
Except that the USA wasn't involved in the Assange case until today - everything up until now has been related to his charge of sexual assault in Sweden and of being unlawfully at large in the UK.
Oh, and Corbyn voted for that overmighty US extradition treaty, when the government of his party proposed it.
Really? I mean really? Are we really all going with this US wasn't involved thing?
Well they weren't regarding the bail jumping. Obviously they want him, but no amount of changing the subject disguises that the crime he will initially serve time for has nothing to do with the US. It seems like going to Sweden to be questioned would make it harder for him to be given to the Americans in fact since as current events show the Americans can try to get him from here they dont need to get him in Sweden. I presume given our treaty its probably easier to get him from here.
I dont care if he gets extradited to the US or not, I'll leave it to the courts before blundering in to impress everyone about how anti American i can be like the politicians are doing.
Decent ratio for Jezza on his tweet to be fair. Assange sounds like a shitty house guest but Corbyn has struck a chord with his implied concern about what many particularly on the left see as an overmighty US extradition system.
Except that the USA wasn't involved in the Assange case until today - everything up until now has been related to his charge of sexual assault in Sweden and of being unlawfully at large in the UK.
Oh, and Corbyn voted for that overmighty US extradition treaty, when the government of his party proposed it.
Really? I mean really? Are we really all going with this US wasn't involved thing?
Well they weren't regarding the bail jumping. Obviously they want him, but no amount of changing the subject disguises that the crime he will initially serve time for has nothing to do with the US. It seems like going to Sweden to be questioned would make it harder for him to be given to the Americans in fact since as current events show the Americans can try to get him from here they dont need to get him in Sweden. I presume given our treaty its probably easier to get him from here.
I dont care if he gets extradited to the US or not, I'll leave it to the courts before blundering in to impress everyone about how anti American i can be like the politicians are doing.
Right, so what you're saying is that Assange is willing to accept a higher risk of being extradited to the US in exchange for avoiding rape charges in Sweden.
So it's monumental stupidity, or dishonesty to say that this is nothing to do with the rape charges.
The not charged argument is such bullcrap. Perhaps he is innocent but trying to claim he is because he successfully hid from even being questioned about it is just a nonsense. They have fair trials and justice in Sweden, maybe they wont charge or convict him if hed gone in the first place.
I dont know what it is with Assange that makes people think his Wikileaks work, whether one likes it or not, should have any bearing on this Sweden stuff. Yesterday proved whatever might have happened with Sweden is unconnected with the Americans being after him - since if they do reopen the charges the Americans might still get him.
The WA is closed, but a different PD is very likely under Labour.
Indeed with CU, and close alignment locked into consumer, environmental and workers rights I could live with it. Clearly inferior to full membership, but streets ahead of Boris Britain.
But the WA is a legally binding Treaty, and the PD is meaningless political bollocks. At the insistance of the EU, who have all put their requests in the first document and all the British requests in the second.
Could someone in favour of a CU arrangement please state why it's a positively good idea.
Because 1) Conducting and concluding trade agreements is the one thing that the EU is positively, definitely, good at; 2) Although outside the CU we'd be better able to tailor deals to our own strengths, this benefit is probably roughly offset by the EU's heftier negotiating power; and 3) It will take us 10-20 years to redo all those deals anyway, so if we can get access cheaply via the EU in the meantime, we might as well.
But the EU deals wouldn’t apply to UK exports, only to UK imports. Ask Turkey what they think about that sort of arrangement with the EU. We’d have to pay duty on British cars exported to Japan, while Japanese cars come to the UK duty free, as they closed down their factories in the UK, with no UK say in that arrangement.
I know that’s the situation with the Turkish deal but is it a requirement of all customs unions?
I’m sure we could design something that worked. But I suspect the EU will demand FoM
What exactly is wrong with freedom of movement? CU+SM is clearly the way to go, respects Referendum II yet strikes a decent compromise and protects the economy.
I’m not saying it won’t happen, but clearly allowing unlimited low skilled Europeans into the country under FoM has driven the Leave vote outside of the media and political hotspots. And it begs the question whose economy is being protected not those with limited work opportunities and suppressed wages, but those of employers who can keep wages down, developers whose construction costs are kept a bit lower, those using hospitality sector in our big cities where they are served by eager young Europeans keen to improve their English whilst working minimum wage, and those whose nannies and childcare is employed directly. Depending on what side of that you are on, you may have a different and valid opinion.
Funny that, the 3 Pro EU parties improved their vote and the two pro Brexit parties suffer.
Clearly Brexit is of no relevance in Scotland.
The LDs and Greens both got better swings than the SNP and as the former are Unionists that suggests independence is of reduced relevance in Scotland too. Labour also didw orse than the Tories
Latest poll very tight though, Conservatives 34.9%, Liberals 32.8% which almost certainly means the Liberals lose their majority but a hung Parliament not a Tory majority.
Mainstreet Research also has the Conservatives comfortably ahead in Alberta and the Prairies and the Liberals comfortably ahead in Quebec but it is close in British Columbia where the Conservatives narrowly lead and marginal seat rich Ontario, where the Liberals still hold a narrow lead and the Atlantic states
Like Australia which votes next month it still looks pretty close and Trudeau tends to retain a narrow lead as preferred PM
Canadian political culture is different to ours, though.
They think nothing of wildly zig-zagging their votes in the final 2 weeks so it’s hard to tell this far out.
I’d say Trudeau will hold with a drastically reduced majority.
I agree Trudeau will stat PM but I think he will lose his majority completely and have to rely on the NDP for confidence and supply or even the Greens and the Bloc Quebecois
I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.
Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.
Yes, he nailed Brexit.
"Of comfort no man speak: Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs; Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
It is striking how England's greatest bard set so many of his plays in what is now the EU. Denmark, Venice, Verona, Rome, Cyprus, Greece. Its almost as if we have a common European culture going back for thousands of years.
I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.
Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.
Yes, he nailed Brexit.
"Of comfort no man speak: Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs; Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
It is striking how England's greatest bard set so many of his plays in what is now the EU. Denmark, Venice, Verona, Rome, Cyprus, Greece. Its almost as if we have a common European culture going back for thousands of years.
Which means we must be part of a political union why?
I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.
Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.
Yes, he nailed Brexit.
"Of comfort no man speak: Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs; Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
It is striking how England's greatest bard set so many of his plays in what is now the EU. Denmark, Venice, Verona, Rome, Cyprus, Greece. Its almost as if we have a common European culture going back for thousands of years.
Nah. He set them there because they were exotic foreign places his customers had never been & so were willing to suspend disbelief about the crazy shit that goes on in his plays
Yep, what part of the Tory vote will vote for them - leave voters will tend to Nigel or UKIP depending on how well Nigel can highlight he isn’t in UKIP any more. Labour as I commented earlier can use a people’s vote to avoid committing to anything and remainers have Chuk and the lib dems to vote for (or SNP in Scotland).
No one has a reason to vote Tory in the Eu elections.
And that probably finally destroys May’s deal leaving us with referendum 2 between revoke and ?????
Actually on the latest EU poll from Yougov both the Tories and Labour could collapse to just 18% each with the Brexit Party just behind on 17% and winning most Leavers' votes and a 'Stay in the EU ' Party ie CUK also on 17% and winning most Remainers' votes.
So in the Euro elections both the Tories and Labour will be the centrist parties on Brexit with the Brexit Party and UKIP the parties for No Dealers and CUK, the LDs and SNP the parties for revokers or EUref2 backers
In today's weird moves on Betfair markets, Penny Mordaunt was last matched at 3 for next Prime Minister. Clearly the punter thinks she is going to be a Prime Minister of a government of national unity because she was last matched at 40 for next Conservative leader.
The WA is closed, but a different PD is very likely under Labour.
Indeed with CU, and close alignment locked into consumer, environmental and workers rights I could live with it. Clearly inferior to full
Could someone in favour of a CU arrangement please state why it's a positively good idea.
Because 1) Conducting and concluding trade agreements is the one thing that the EU is positively, definitely, good at; 2) Although outside the CU we'd be better able to tailor deals to our own strengths, this benefit is probably roughly offset by the EU's heftier negotiating power; and 3) It will take us 10-20 years to redo all those deals anyway, so if we can get access cheaply via the EU in the meantime, we might as well.
But the EU deals wouldn’t apply to UK exports, only to UK imports. Ask Turkey what they think about that sort of arrangement with the EU. We’d have to pay duty on British cars exported to Japan, while Japanese cars come to the UK duty free, as they closed down their factories in the UK, with no UK say in that arrangement.
I know that’s the situation with the Turkish deal but is it a requirement of all customs unions?
I’m sure we could design something that worked. But I suspect the EU will demand FoM
What exactly is wrong with freedom of movement? CU+SM is clearly the way to go, respects Referendum II yet strikes a decent compromise and protects the economy.
I’m not saying it won’t happen, but clearly allowing unlimited low skilled Europeans into the country under FoM has driven the Leave vote outside of the media and political hotspots. And it begs the question whose economy is being protected not those with limited work opportunities and suppressed wages, but those of employers who can keep wages down, developers whose construction costs are kept a bit lower, those using hospitality sector in our big cities where they are served by eager young Europeans keen to improve their English whilst working minimum wage, and those whose nannies and childcare is employed directly. Depending on what side of that you are on, you may have a different and valid opinion.
Dont Leavers buy pints poured by Slovakian barmaids when they go down Wetherspoons, or pop out for a cheeky Nandos?
I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.
Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.
Yes, he nailed Brexit.
"Of comfort no man speak: Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs; Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
It is striking how England's greatest bard set so many of his plays in what is now the EU. Denmark, Venice, Verona, Rome, Cyprus, Greece. Its almost as if we have a common European culture going back for thousands of years.
Which means we must be part of a political union why?
I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.
Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.
Yes, he nailed Brexit.
"Of comfort no man speak: Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs; Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
It is striking how England's greatest bard set so many of his plays in what is now the EU. Denmark, Venice, Verona, Rome, Cyprus, Greece. Its almost as if we have a common European culture going back for thousands of years.
Did you omit Agincourt deliberately?
It's all a bit superficial anyway. For instance there its no indication in the M of V that Venice is physically unusual in any way.
PS I once went to a performance of Macbeth iin the grounds of Cawdor Castle.
Funny that, the 3 Pro EU parties improved their vote and the two pro Brexit parties suffer.
Clearly Brexit is of no relevance in Scotland.
The LDs and Greens both got better swings than the SNP and as the former are Unionists that suggests independence is of reduced relevance in Scotland too. Labour also didw orse than the Tories
Major Pro Indy parties get 7.2% points more votes, major Unionist parties get 4.9% points less votes.
I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.
Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.
Yes, he nailed Brexit.
"Of comfort no man speak: Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs; Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
It is striking how England's greatest bard set so many of his plays in what is now the EU. Denmark, Venice, Verona, Rome, Cyprus, Greece. Its almost as if we have a common European culture going back for thousands of years.
Which means we must be part of a political union why?
Because Europe is our family.
I doubt if Shakespeare's audience would have thought so.
Funny that, the 3 Pro EU parties improved their vote and the two pro Brexit parties suffer.
Clearly Brexit is of no relevance in Scotland.
The LDs and Greens both got better swings than the SNP and as the former are Unionists that suggests independence is of reduced relevance in Scotland too. Labour also didw orse than the Tories
Lol, it's amazing how accurately one can predict a poster from a post before seeing their name.
You are aware of the Scottish Greens' position on Indy?
Richard II has the lines of Shakespeare most quoted by English nationalists:
This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle, This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, This other Eden, demi-paradise, This fortress built by Nature for herself Against infection and the hand of war, This happy breed of men, this little world, This precious stone set in the silver sea, Which serves it in the office of a wall, Or as a moat defensive to a house, Against the envy of less happier lands, This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
but they never get as far as the end of John of Gaunt's soliloquy:
This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land, Dear for her reputation through the world, Is now leased out, I die pronouncing it, Like to a tenement or pelting farm: England, bound in with the triumphant sea Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame, With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds: That England, that was wont to conquer others, Hath made a shameful conquest of itself. Ah, would the scandal vanish with my life, How happy then were my ensuing death!
Mr. Slackbladder, I was less than impressed that the BBC News last night cited one bad example of military conduct in the leaked information, yet didn't mention that leaking so much classified stuff might just put lives at risk and make it more difficult to protect people.
I do see the nuance (bad practice was leaked), but, unless I was half-asleep and missed it, the omission of the case against Assange's massive leaking [ahem] is bad journalism.
I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.
Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.
Yes, he nailed Brexit.
"Of comfort no man speak: Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs; Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
It is striking how England's greatest bard set so many of his plays in what is now the EU. Denmark, Venice, Verona, Rome, Cyprus, Greece. Its almost as if we have a common European culture going back for thousands of years.
Which means we must be part of a political union why?
Because Europe is our family.
I doubt if Shakespeare's audience would have thought so.
Comments
Referendum II: 2Ref 2Furious
Referendum II: The Referendum Strikes Back
Referendum II: Catching Fire
Referendum II: The Dark Referendum Rises
Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the polling booth...
Referendums
Referendum 3
Referendum Resurrection
The Referendum
Referendum Into Darkness
Referendum Beyond
He was arriving at Heathrow about five years ago, and was at the immigration counter. The officer said "Jimmy Wales, eh?", and he said "Yes, I founded Wikipedia"
The officer was confused, and thought this might be the same as Wikileaks, with the result he was selected for special processing for two or three hours. Pride, before a fall, and all that...
The Wrath of Referendum
The Search for Referendum
The Referendum Home
The Final Referendum
The Undiscovered Referendum
Star Trek: Referendums
Star Trek: First Referendum
Referendum: Insurrection
Referendum: Nemesis
Anyone who remembers the exact moment the BBC announced leave had won at 4.40am on 24 June 2016 will remember they immediately turned to Kamal for his downbeat assessment of the economic impact of the result - so Faisal will suit the role very well.
Labour as I commented earlier can use a people’s vote to avoid committing to anything and remainers have Chuk and the lib dems to vote for (or SNP in Scotland).
No one has a reason to vote Tory in the Eu elections.
And that probably finally destroys May’s deal leaving us with referendum 2 between revoke and ?????
It couldn't have been worse.
We should be proud of our non contributory welfare system. But the perception that people who have not contributed to it draw from it undermines support for it.
F1: qualifying ramble may be up this morning, or afternoon.
It really says something for the political cowardice of the Conservatives that they’ve done nothing to resist public lynchings of this sort over the last 8 years, and indeed given into them. Toby Young was another.
https://twitter.com/johnloony/status/1116465871671762945?s=21
They think nothing of wildly zig-zagging their votes in the final 2 weeks so it’s hard to tell this far out.
I’d say Trudeau will hold with a drastically reduced majority.
Otherwise, immigration is largely driven by economics. So it will only drastically reduce if and when there is radical technological or economic change.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/04/11/trudeau-has-lost-media-conservatives-shouldnt-celebrate/
This is nothing to do with the government. It's a straightforward police matter. Although to judge from his public pronouncements, the NHS may need to be involved to have him sectioned.
I want more from a Conservative Government than to just act as economic cleaners.
Otherwise dialogue closes down, and you have silence. That only leads to hardening of pre-existing partisan prejudices which leads to serious blind spots opening up in public policy that, over time, people start to challenge as illegitimate.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1116482671247597570?s=19
SNP hold off the Greens after multiple rounds.
Funny that, the 3 Pro EU parties improved their vote and the two pro Brexit parties suffer.
Clearly Brexit is of no relevance in Scotland.
But the truth is, nobody with two or more brain cells ever thought she was fit to be Home Secretary, so that wouldn't be the case.
Have a good morning.
Thornton (Lambeth) result:
LAB: 41.5% (-3.3)
LDEM: 40.7% (+7.9)
GRN: 7.1% (-2.6)
CON: 6.9% (-2.7)
WEP: 2.2% (+0.4)
UKIP: 1.6% (+0.2)
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1115960868276191238?s=21
https://twitter.com/johnnymerceruk/status/1115978669263151104?s=21
https://twitter.com/tomtugendhat/status/1116367195397861377?s=21
I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.
Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.
She was shocking and Humphries’ persistently stating that Assanfe wasn’t charged because in Sweden you need to be present to be charged is why we will miss him (Humphries) so much.
"Of comfort no man speak:
Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs;
Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes
Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
I dont care if he gets extradited to the US or not, I'll leave it to the courts before blundering in to impress everyone about how anti American i can be like the politicians are doing.
So it's monumental stupidity, or dishonesty to say that this is nothing to do with the rape charges.
I dont know what it is with Assange that makes people think his Wikileaks work, whether one likes it or not, should have any bearing on this Sweden stuff. Yesterday proved whatever might have happened with Sweden is unconnected with the Americans being after him - since if they do reopen the charges the Americans might still get him.
Just by claiming to be a whistleblower or a journalist or a leaker does NOT give you carte blanche to do anything you like without legal consquences.
He, as well as chelsea manning may well have broken the law in many ways.
So in the Euro elections both the Tories and Labour will be the centrist parties on Brexit with the Brexit Party and UKIP the parties for No Dealers and CUK, the LDs and SNP the parties for revokers or EUref2 backers
It's all a bit superficial anyway. For instance there its no indication in the M of V that Venice is physically unusual in any way.
PS I once went to a performance of Macbeth iin the grounds of Cawdor Castle.
I'm not seeing a death of Indy narrative here.
You are aware of the Scottish Greens' position on Indy?
This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
but they never get as far as the end of John of Gaunt's soliloquy:
This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land,
Dear for her reputation through the world,
Is now leased out, I die pronouncing it,
Like to a tenement or pelting farm:
England, bound in with the triumphant sea
Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege
Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame,
With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds:
That England, that was wont to conquer others,
Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.
Ah, would the scandal vanish with my life,
How happy then were my ensuing death!
I do see the nuance (bad practice was leaked), but, unless I was half-asleep and missed it, the omission of the case against Assange's massive leaking [ahem] is bad journalism.