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  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    This thread
    Is dead
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Ruth Davidson does badly in Leith Walk by election

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1116482671247597570?s=19

    SNP hold off the Greens after multiple rounds.

    Funny that, the 3 Pro EU parties improved their vote and the two pro Brexit parties suffer.

    Clearly Brexit is of no relevance in Scotland.

    The LDs and Greens both got better swings than the SNP and as the former are Unionists that suggests independence is of reduced relevance in Scotland too. Labour also didw orse than the Tories
    Lol, it's amazing how accurately one can predict a poster from a post before seeing their name.

    You are aware of the Scottish Greens' position on Indy?
    Not their raison d'etre.

    Meanwhile a new poll has support for independence falling below 30% with 50% for No and 30% for Yes and 63% for No 37% Yes excluding Don't Knows.

    Just 40% of Scots polled want another independence referendum in the next 5 years

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4071150/scottish-independence-support-dropped-snp-survey-polls/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Alistair said:

    .

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Ruth Davidson does badly in Leith Walk by election

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1116482671247597570?s=19

    SNP hold off the Greens after multiple rounds.

    Funny that, the 3 Pro EU parties improved their vote and the two pro Brexit parties suffer.

    Clearly Brexit is of no relevance in Scotland.

    The LDs and Greens both got better swings than the SNP and as the former are Unionists that suggests independence is of reduced relevance in Scotland too. Labour also didw orse than the Tories
    Major Pro Indy parties get 7.2% points more votes, major Unionist parties get 4.9% points less votes.

    I'm not seeing a death of Indy narrative here.
    It was a death of hard Brexit narrative, as the poll below shows Indy support fading
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    AndyJS said:
    All too common, sadly.

    It really says something for the political cowardice of the Conservatives that they’ve done nothing to resist public lynchings of this sort over the last 8 years, and indeed given into them. Toby Young was another.
    George Eaton is another Johan Hari
    Not very impressive

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1115960868276191238?s=21

    https://twitter.com/johnnymerceruk/status/1115978669263151104?s=21

    https://twitter.com/tomtugendhat/status/1116367195397861377?s=21

    TBF In the third tweet he admitted his error
    Yes, sorry I meant the tweet from Mercer looks a bit foolish now.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    She was shocking and Humphries’ persistently stating that Assanfe wasn’t charged because in Sweden you need to be present to be charged is why we will miss him (Humphries) so much.
    A shame he didn’t ask her why Corbyn voted for the Extradition Act. Or indeed how Diane Abbott voted on it and whether she agrees with Jeremy on it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    Richard II has the lines of Shakespeare most quoted by English nationalists:

    This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
    This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
    This other Eden, demi-paradise,
    This fortress built by Nature for herself
    Against infection and the hand of war,
    This happy breed of men, this little world,
    This precious stone set in the silver sea,
    Which serves it in the office of a wall,
    Or as a moat defensive to a house,
    Against the envy of less happier lands,
    This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,

    but they never get as far as the end of John of Gaunt's soliloquy:

    This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land,
    Dear for her reputation through the world,
    Is now leased out, I die pronouncing it,
    Like to a tenement or pelting farm:
    England, bound in with the triumphant sea
    Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege
    Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame,
    With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds:
    That England, that was wont to conquer others,
    Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.
    Ah, would the scandal vanish with my life,
    How happy then were my ensuing death!

    All of Edward III's conquests were indeed as naught, by the time John of Gaunt died.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Richard II has the lines of Shakespeare most quoted by English nationalists:

    This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
    This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
    This other Eden, demi-paradise,
    This fortress built by Nature for herself
    Against infection and the hand of war,
    This happy breed of men, this little world,
    This precious stone set in the silver sea,
    Which serves it in the office of a wall,
    Or as a moat defensive to a house,
    Against the envy of less happier lands,
    This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,

    but they never get as far as the end of John of Gaunt's soliloquy:

    This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land,
    Dear for her reputation through the world,
    Is now leased out, I die pronouncing it,
    Like to a tenement or pelting farm:
    England, bound in with the triumphant sea
    Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege
    Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame,
    With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds:
    That England, that was wont to conquer others,
    Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.
    Ah, would the scandal vanish with my life,
    How happy then were my ensuing death!

    “Hath made a shameful conquest of itself” is very apt for our times.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Ruth Davidson does badly in Leith Walk by election

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1116482671247597570?s=19

    SNP hold off the Greens after multiple rounds.

    Funny that, the 3 Pro EU parties improved their vote and the two pro Brexit parties suffer.

    Clearly Brexit is of no relevance in Scotland.

    The LDs and Greens both got better swings than the SNP and as the former are Unionists that suggests independence is of reduced relevance in Scotland too. Labour also didw orse than the Tories
    Lol, it's amazing how accurately one can predict a poster from a post before seeing their name.

    You are aware of the Scottish Greens' position on Indy?
    Not their raison d'etre.

    Meanwhile a new poll has support for independence falling below 30% with 50% for No and 30% for Yes and 63% for No 37% Yes excluding Don't Knows.

    Just 40% of Scots polled want another independence referendum in the next 5 years

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4071150/scottish-independence-support-dropped-snp-survey-polls/
    Is that another one of Scotland in Unions weirdly worded questions again?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    geoffw said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Paging @Casino_Royale

    I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.

    Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.

    Yes, he nailed Brexit.

    "Of comfort no man speak:
    Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs;
    Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes
    Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
    It is striking how England's greatest bard set so many of his plays in what is now the EU. Denmark, Venice, Verona, Rome, Cyprus, Greece. Its almost as if we have a common European culture going back for thousands of years.
    Which means we must be part of a political union why?
    Because Europe is our family.
    I doubt if Shakespeare's audience would have thought so.
    You know about "unser Shakespeare"?
    I thought Bill Bryson's Shakespeare book was very good.

    Tl;dr? No one really knew anything about him at all apart from the vaguest supposed details.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. F, quite.

    Been re-reading Ian Mortimer's Time Traveller guides, and in medieval/Renaissance times a 'foreigner' could simply mean someone from another village, and actual foreigners were routinely criticised.

    Upper and upper middle class types might've delighted in foreign fashions, in the same way medieval knights had a sort of international brotherhood, but for the average man foreigners were regarded with suspicion.
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