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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The PB/Polling Matters podcast analyses May’s EU elections – t

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  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    Well, the positive of todays announcement, is he doesn't bother to hide his world view. Voters can now see what the foreign policy of a Jezza government will be shaped by.

    US: bad (period, no discussion)
    Russia: Good (period, no discussion)
    The message I’m getting is that sexual assault doesn’t matter if it’s perpetrated by lefties.
    Just to be clear, are you talking about Biden or Assange?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    isam said:

    Addressing @AlastairMeeks's point, for non betting purposes, does it matter if UKIP/Brexit split the Brexit vote, or TIG/LD do the same on the other side of the fence? Going forward, we will know how motivated the different sides are from the combined vote %s. I don't think the number of seats obtained is really that important

    I think that's quite a valid point, although the media narrative may focus more on seats.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, the positive of todays announcement, is he doesn't bother to hide his world view. Voters can now see what the foreign policy of a Jezza government will be shaped by.

    US: bad (period, no discussion)
    Russia: Good (period, no discussion)
    The message I’m getting is that sexual assault doesn’t matter if it’s perpetrated by lefties.
    Reading At The Court of the Red Tsar, rape was plainly considered one of the perks of being a senior communist official.
    Well, for Beria anyway.
    Beria was not unique, by any means, even though he was the worst. He enjoyed murdering and torturing women, as well as raping them.

    One of my A-level textbooks profiles the three heads of the NKVD in the thirties - Yagoda, Yezhov and Beria.

    Yagoda's hobbies are said to include 'rock gardening and extreme pornography.'

    Yezhov is described as a 'tension ridden drug addicted sexual deviant.'

    Beria is described as the worst of the lot.
    Rock gardening. Dreadful. Deviance of the worst sort. Unless the kayaking sort is intended.
    Nowadays rock gardening is probably slang for some sort of extreme sexual activity.
    Tried that. Kayaking around the rocks is included but nothing else. Tried to use my imagination, but it's not as vivid as Ydoethur's. (See earlier today)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,850
    IanB2 said:

    The media will inevitably focus on seats as well as votes

    No doubt, and seats are of course important.

    But re the key question, "As a country are we now Leave, Remain, Neither?", the aggregate vote count will be the thing for us to look at.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,729
    edited April 2019

    isam said:

    Addressing @AlastairMeeks's point, for non betting purposes, does it matter if UKIP/Brexit split the Brexit vote, or TIG/LD do the same on the other side of the fence? Going forward, we will know how motivated the different sides are from the combined vote %s. I don't think the number of seats obtained is really that important

    I think that's quite a valid point, although the media narrative may focus more on seats.
    Cheers, yes I think that would be a mistake. Look how UKIP getting 13% was overlooked because it only got them one seat. Yet in hindsight all the signs were there that the referendum was going to be closer than predicted, people just looked at the wrong signs.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    What is the red on this map? No Labour in 1885.
    Red is Liberal, yellow is independent Liberal/Radical/Lib-Lab.

    Although party colours tended to be more fluid in those days anyway.
    When I was a lad, Labour in Sunderland was green.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, the positive of todays announcement, is he doesn't bother to hide his world view. Voters can now see what the foreign policy of a Jezza government will be shaped by.

    US: bad (period, no discussion)
    Russia: Good (period, no discussion)
    The message I’m getting is that sexual assault doesn’t matter if it’s perpetrated by lefties.
    Is that really news to you? I mean, the Islington children's home scandal should have demonstrated that.
    the Socialist Workers Party is a group that is sexist, full of bullies, and above all will cover up rape to protect its male members and reputation.”

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/05/comrades-war-decline-and-fall-socialist-workers-party
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    Scott_P said:
    What is the red on this map? No Labour in 1885.
    As posted, this could upset Mebyon Kernow
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    edited April 2019
    Did we ever find out if Falconer is to run the anti-semite investigation for the party?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Did we ever find out if Falconer is to run the anti-semite investigation for the party?

    Hes finished. Concluded they need much more of it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Dura_Ace said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, the positive of todays announcement, is he doesn't bother to hide his world view. Voters can now see what the foreign policy of a Jezza government will be shaped by.

    US: bad (period, no discussion)
    Russia: Good (period, no discussion)
    The message I’m getting is that sexual assault doesn’t matter if it’s perpetrated by lefties.
    Isn't Corbyn just talking about his extradition to the US? That's nothing to do with sexual assault.
    Don't interrupt pb.com tories when they are on a moralising wank fest. Morris Dancer is on the vinegars.
    Bloody ex-Labour Party member PB Tory.

    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1116608870049128448
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    The media will inevitably focus on seats as well as votes

    No doubt, and seats are of course important.

    But re the key question, "As a country are we now Leave, Remain, Neither?", the aggregate vote count will be the thing for us to look at.
    Remain on a vote totalling basis. Seat by seat under FPTP ? Leave.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    Sean_F said:

    If change UK and the Lib Dems cannot form some kind of alliance for the EU elections then they deserve to crash and burn at the next election. It would be a clear case of egos getting in the way and throwing away an opportunity to make a real impact in what will clearly be the next proxy referendum. So far though there doesn't seem to be much movement towards any alliance, mostly seems like the CUK side are reluctant to do so.

    @Iain pointed out yesterday how difficult it would be to form a joint slate in the amount of available time but yes, there's a real risk that they just split the non-Labour pro-EU vote.
    Because its members come from larger parties, I think CUK may be more arrogant and less experienced. The result with FPTP or d'Hondt can be oblivion. 6% of the EU vote doesn't mean several MEPs, it probably means none.

    The Lib.Dems have harsh experience of being squashed by larger parties due to the unfairness of FPTP.

    I'm surprised that the EU accepted this pathetic apology for PR. I think after the shock of the 1989 EU elections when the Greens got 15% and no seats it may have told the UK government that future EU voting had to be 'proportional'. This was the result.
    The most proportionate system would be to treat the UK as a single constituency, so that 1.4% would be sufficient to win a seat.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    The media will inevitably focus on seats as well as votes

    No doubt, and seats are of course important.

    But re the key question, "As a country are we now Leave, Remain, Neither?", the aggregate vote count will be the thing for us to look at.
    Remain on a vote totalling basis. Seat by seat under FPTP ? Leave.
    At present, I'd expect the pro-Leave parties to get 45-50%. I don't know if you can treat Labour as pro-Remain yet, although they're obviously moving in that direction.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited April 2019
    I think it would be fair to say that @GOsborneGenius, the artiste formerly known as tim, is not entirely impressed with the Corbyn/Abbott/Milne line on Assange.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    If change UK and the Lib Dems cannot form some kind of alliance for the EU elections then they deserve to crash and burn at the next election. It would be a clear case of egos getting in the way and throwing away an opportunity to make a real impact in what will clearly be the next proxy referendum. So far though there doesn't seem to be much movement towards any alliance, mostly seems like the CUK side are reluctant to do so.

    @Iain pointed out yesterday how difficult it would be to form a joint slate in the amount of available time but yes, there's a real risk that they just split the non-Labour pro-EU vote.
    Because its members come from larger parties, I think CUK may be more arrogant and less experienced. The result with FPTP or d'Hondt can be oblivion. 6% of the EU vote doesn't mean several MEPs, it probably means none.

    The Lib.Dems have harsh experience of being squashed by larger parties due to the unfairness of FPTP.

    I'm surprised that the EU accepted this pathetic apology for PR. I think after the shock of the 1989 EU elections when the Greens got 15% and no seats it may have told the UK government that future EU voting had to be 'proportional'. This was the result.
    The most proportionate system would be to treat the UK as a single constituency, so that 1.4% would be sufficient to win a seat.
    STV would be better with the current constituencies. You would still need to gain a minimum threshold of support before winning a seat, but parties with similar platforms get to have a contest decided by the voters to see which will win the transfers from the others.

    D'Hondt is a really bad advert for PR as it concentrates power in the parties rather than the voters.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Paging @Casino_Royale

    I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.

    Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.

    Yes, he nailed Brexit.

    "Of comfort no man speak:
    Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs;
    Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes
    Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
    It is striking how England's greatest bard set so many of his plays in what is now the EU. Denmark, Venice, Verona, Rome, Cyprus, Greece. Its almost as if we have a common European culture going back for thousands of years.
    Which means we must be part of a political union why?
    Because Europe is our family.
    And families require political union why? Are those not in the union not part of the European family? Do families all share the same level of connection?

    I find it difficult to believe such saccharine nonsense is the reason people support the union. It may be the best thing for us all, but because 'it is our family' as though cultural connection requires political connection is bollocks.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    I think it would be fair to say that @GOsborneGenius, the artiste formerly known as tim, is not entirely impressed with the Corbyn/Abbott/Milne line on Assange.

    Great wit though he was the artiste formally known as Tim was always on the right of the Labour party -and that was before Corbyn moved the goalposts.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited April 2019
    Dura_Ace said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, the positive of todays announcement, is he doesn't bother to hide his world view. Voters can now see what the foreign policy of a Jezza government will be shaped by.

    US: bad (period, no discussion)
    Russia: Good (period, no discussion)
    The message I’m getting is that sexual assault doesn’t matter if it’s perpetrated by lefties.
    Isn't Corbyn just talking about his extradition to the US? That's nothing to do with sexual assault.
    Don't interrupt pb.com tories when they are on a moralising wank fest. Morris Dancer is on the vinegars.
    And what exactly are the people salivating over American extradition as if that is all that matters doing if not indulging in a moralising wank fest? Look in the mirror once in a while.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    If change UK and the Lib Dems cannot form some kind of alliance for the EU elections then they deserve to crash and burn at the next election. It would be a clear case of egos getting in the way and throwing away an opportunity to make a real impact in what will clearly be the next proxy referendum. So far though there doesn't seem to be much movement towards any alliance, mostly seems like the CUK side are reluctant to do so.

    @Iain pointed out yesterday how difficult it would be to form a joint slate in the amount of available time but yes, there's a real risk that they just split the non-Labour pro-EU vote.
    Because its members come from larger parties, I think CUK may be more arrogant and less experienced. The result with FPTP or d'Hondt can be oblivion. 6% of the EU vote doesn't mean several MEPs, it probably means none.

    The Lib.Dems have harsh experience of being squashed by larger parties due to the unfairness of FPTP.

    I'm surprised that the EU accepted this pathetic apology for PR. I think after the shock of the 1989 EU elections when the Greens got 15% and no seats it may have told the UK government that future EU voting had to be 'proportional'. This was the result.
    The most proportionate system would be to treat the UK as a single constituency, so that 1.4% would be sufficient to win a seat.
    Yes or one could have a mix of constituency and list MEPs. I'd accept that.

    In 2014, PR would have led to 6 Green and 4 Lib.Dem MEPs, not resp. 3 and 1

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/vote2014/eu-uk-results

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited April 2019
    There will be no news until the petition closes on 1st May and they count the petitioners - similar process to an election, with reporting restrictions in place until the official count.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    We don't get any news until the 6 weeks are up...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Sandpit said:

    There will be no news until the petition closes on 1st May and they count the petitioners - similar process to an election, with reporting restrictions in place until the official count.
    Thanks.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Paging @Casino_Royale

    I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.

    Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.

    Yes, he nailed Brexit.

    "Of comfort no man speak:
    Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs;
    Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes
    Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
    It is striking how England's greatest bard set so many of his plays in what is now the EU. Denmark, Venice, Verona, Rome, Cyprus, Greece. Its almost as if we have a common European culture going back for thousands of years.
    Which means we must be part of a political union why?
    Because Europe is our family.
    And families require political union why? Are those not in the union not part of the European family? Do families all share the same level of connection?

    I find it difficult to believe such saccharine nonsense is the reason people support the union. It may be the best thing for us all, but because 'it is our family' as though cultural connection requires political connection is bollocks.
    It's just a continental version of nationalism. Creating a power block that can get advantage over other blocks and the third world in trade and politically whilst internalizing the benefits. Nationalism without a single flag. Little Europeans are the new little Englanders.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Paging @Casino_Royale

    I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.

    Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.

    Yes, he nailed Brexit.

    "Of comfort no man speak:
    Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs;
    Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes
    Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
    It is striking how England's greatest bard set so many of his plays in what is now the EU. Denmark, Venice, Verona, Rome, Cyprus, Greece. Its almost as if we have a common European culture going back for thousands of years.
    Which means we must be part of a political union why?
    Because Europe is our family.
    And families require political union why? Are those not in the union not part of the European family? Do families all share the same level of connection?

    I find it difficult to believe such saccharine nonsense is the reason people support the union. It may be the best thing for us all, but because 'it is our family' as though cultural connection requires political connection is bollocks.
    I think Foxy's point is more a rebuttal of the idea that we are a civilisation apart and therefore shouldn't be part of it. The @rcs1000 argument is that the EU is alright for them, but not for us.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    Scott_P said:
    Sadly I am no longer able to comment on these proceedings although I would very much like to do so.

    Please assume I would have said something witty and insightful.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    I liked this bit:

    The publication said that the article was clearly an opinion piece, and readers would understand that the statement was not invoking specific polling – no specific dates or polls were referenced. It said that the writer was entitled to make sweeping generalisations based on his opinions and that the complainant had misconstrued the purpose of the article; it was clearly comically polemical, and could not be reasonably read as a serious, empirical, in-depth analysis of hard factual matters.

    In other words, the Telegraph agrees that Boris talks bollocks and everyone knows he talks bollocks.
  • I liked this bit:

    The publication said that the article was clearly an opinion piece, and readers would understand that the statement was not invoking specific polling – no specific dates or polls were referenced. It said that the writer was entitled to make sweeping generalisations based on his opinions and that the complainant had misconstrued the purpose of the article; it was clearly comically polemical, and could not be reasonably read as a serious, empirical, in-depth analysis of hard factual matters.

    In other words, the Telegraph agrees that Boris talks bollocks and everyone knows he talks bollocks.
    Sums up Boris doesn’t it.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    Keen though I am to take Euro-elections seriously, not every party standing makes it easy. Here's a Euractiv report from Slovakia:

    Slovak party “Sme rodina (We are family) – Boris Kollár” will join the Europe of Nations and Freedom (ENF), a group led by Italy’s Salvini and France’s Le Pen. Polls give Sme rodina one or two MEPs in the next EU Parliament. The leader of the party, Boris Kollar, is a businessman and celebrity who bought an existing party, renamed it and surprisingly made it to the national parliament in 2016. He has 10 children with 9 women.

    Gives a new look at the meaning of "family", doesn't it?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    If change UK and the Lib Dems cannot form some kind of alliance for the EU elections then they deserve to crash and burn at the next election. It would be a clear case of egos getting in the way and throwing away an opportunity to make a real impact in what will clearly be the next proxy referendum. So far though there doesn't seem to be much movement towards any alliance, mostly seems like the CUK side are reluctant to do so.

    @Iain pointed out yesterday how difficult it would be to form a joint slate in the amount of available time but yes, there's a real risk that they just split the non-Labour pro-EU vote.
    Because its members come from larger parties, I think CUK may be more arrogant and less experienced. The result with FPTP or d'Hondt can be oblivion. 6% of the EU vote doesn't mean several MEPs, it probably means none.

    The Lib.Dems have harsh experience of being squashed by larger parties due to the unfairness of FPTP.

    I'm surprised that the EU accepted this pathetic apology for PR. I think after the shock of the 1989 EU elections when the Greens got 15% and no seats it may have told the UK government that future EU voting had to be 'proportional'. This was the result.
    The most proportionate system would be to treat the UK as a single constituency, so that 1.4% would be sufficient to win a seat.
    D'Hondt trends toward proportionality with a sole seat, but it would also be perfectly proportional with 20 million seats (1 for each voter). Obviously the latter is absurd, but it's an interesting theoretical point.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    All change at Sky. Faisal Islam being replaced as pol editor by Beth Rigby.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,393
    The Moggette standing for Farage's party!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    All change at Sky. Faisal Islam being replaced as pol editor by Beth Rigby.

    She has the most irritating droney voice
    And with Kay Burley in charge of stupid questions for mad guests with odd views and Adam Boulton heading up hissy fits its all good down Murdoch Way.
  • All change at Sky. Faisal Islam being replaced as pol editor by Beth Rigby.

    She has the most irritating droney voice
    And with Kay Burley in charge of stupid questions for mad guests with odd views and Adam Boulton heading up hissy fits its all good down Murdoch Way.
    Murdoch no longer owns Sky.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    All change at Sky. Faisal Islam being replaced as pol editor by Beth Rigby.

    She has the most irritating droney voice
    And with Kay Burley in charge of stupid questions for mad guests with odd views and Adam Boulton heading up hissy fits its all good down Murdoch Way.
    Murdoch no longer owns Sky.
    They still name the boulevards of Sky land after him. *saves*
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    In touch with the working man there
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    In touch with the working man there
    It's the pensioners they are after
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    I remember when David Cameron generated lots mirth by suggesting that she run as Nancy Mogg to seem less posh.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    Mwahahahahaha.

    The Brexit Party will get endless PR by the ever hungry 24 hour news. And a permanent seat on QT.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    IanB2 said:

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    In touch with the working man there
    It's the pensioners they are after
    True enough. Ugh, what a repulsive state britpol is in
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    IanB2 said:

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    In touch with the working man there
    It's the pensioners they are after
    Given how high a proportion of the votes will be cast by post, that would be sensible.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    And the Tories without the pensioners are going to be a sorry sight indeed.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    IanB2 said:

    And the Tories without the pensioners are going to be a sorry sight indeed.

    Surely they can rely on their solid millenials base?! Titter
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,741
    IanB2 said:

    And the Tories without the pensioners are going to be a sorry sight indeed.

    They're missing two at the moment.

    Corbyn's heading up Labour, and Vince Cable the Liberal Democrats.

    Are you suggesting more might defect?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,850

    Sums up Boris doesn’t it.

    Trouble is, in the USA exactly that thing - getting away with talking obvious bollox because "he's just like that, bit of a dick but, you know, at least he's different" - has been shown to work. And you know what they say, whatever is big the States hits our shores a couple of years later.

    Sorry for this, especially on a Friday, but I feel it's my duty.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    In touch with the working man there
    It's the pensioners they are after
    Given how high a proportion of the votes will be cast by post, that would be sensible.
    UKIP were successful because they got a ton of Labour voters to defect.

    Hopefully Farage remembers that.
  • bunncobunnco Posts: 169
    Just spotted a freshly painted sky-blue open-topped double decker bus on the M25 saying "The Brexit Party. Changing Britain for Good."

    You heard it here first! No sign of Farage or any other fellow passengers

    Bunnco Your man on the spot
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    nunuone said:

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    Mwahahahahaha.

    The Brexit Party will get endless PR by the ever hungry 24 hour news. And a permanent seat on QT.
    I fear QT will not be able to resist their addiction to freak show-ism and a date with both JRM and ARM is already being pencilled in.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    bunnco said:

    Just spotted a freshly painted sky-blue open-topped double decker bus on the M25 saying "The Brexit Party. Changing Britain for Good."

    You heard it here first! No sign of Farage or any other fellow passengers

    Bunnco Your man on the spot

    Isn't that an old Alliance slogan?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    nunuone said:

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    Mwahahahahaha.

    The Brexit Party will get endless PR by the ever hungry 24 hour news. And a permanent seat on QT.
    I fear QT will not be able to resist their addiction to freak show-ism and a date with both JRM and ARM is already being pencilled in.
    Also featuring Rod Liddle, Yasmin Alibai-Brown and Stormzy
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    IanB2 said:

    bunnco said:

    Just spotted a freshly painted sky-blue open-topped double decker bus on the M25 saying "The Brexit Party. Changing Britain for Good."

    You heard it here first! No sign of Farage or any other fellow passengers

    Bunnco Your man on the spot

    Isn't that an old Alliance slogan?
    Go back to your constituencies and prepare for being a spitting image joke
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,056
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Paging @Casino_Royale

    I hope you were listening to R4 this morning where you will have heard some of Shakespeare’s beautiful poetry from Richard II.

    Fail to be moved by that and I question your Englishness.

    Yes, he nailed Brexit.

    "Of comfort no man speak:
    Let's talk of graves, of worms, of epitaphs;
    Make dust our paper, and with rainy eyes
    Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth....
    It is striking how England's greatest bard set so many of his plays in what is now the EU. Denmark, Venice, Verona, Rome, Cyprus, Greece. Its almost as if we have a common European culture going back for thousands of years.
    Which means we must be part of a political union why?
    Because Europe is our family.
    And families require political union why? Are those not in the union not part of the European family? Do families all share the same level of connection?

    I find it difficult to believe such saccharine nonsense is the reason people support the union. It may be the best thing for us all, but because 'it is our family' as though cultural connection requires political connection is bollocks.
    Post Brexit, the only European nation other than Russia and Belarus not in the EU, EFTA, Customs Union or applying to be one of the above will be the UK.

    Economics and culture cannot be divorced from politics, because politics encompasses all human activity. Geography, History, Demography, Environment and Culture all determine that we are European, and weshould not cut ourselves off from our family and neighbours in addressing issues facing the continent.

    That is not to say more remote areas are unimportant, just that Europe is the core of our culture and economy.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    I see the hate party has launched .

    Farage doesn’t want Brexit and was overjoyed when the EU gave the 6 month extension . The only way to satisfy his large ego is to remain relevant and that means the UK staying .

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    bunnco said:

    Just spotted a freshly painted sky-blue open-topped double decker bus on the M25 saying "The Brexit Party. Changing Britain for Good."

    You heard it here first! No sign of Farage or any other fellow passengers

    Bunnco Your man on the spot

    According to the Grauniad 'Nigel Farage has said he hopes his new Brexit party will be largely funded by small donations, and would not take any money from Arron Banks'
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,850

    It's just a continental version of nationalism. Creating a power block that can get advantage over other blocks and the third world in trade and politically whilst internalizing the benefits. Nationalism without a single flag. Little Europeans are the new little Englanders.

    There is also the not wholly reprehensible objective of rendering military conflict between European nations almost unthinkable.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    Scott_P said:
    I’m not likely to support Farage, but he is clearly not the career political class having had a job before getting into politics. I can’t be the only one who understands that as someone who’d done PPE at uni, worked at think tank / spad / union before becoming an MP.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,850

    According to the Grauniad 'Nigel Farage has said he hopes his new Brexit party will be largely funded by small donations, and would not take any money from Arron Banks'

    Well he will certainly be getting a small donation from me. A very small donation indeed.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Is there a purdah period for the Euros or locals ? Time rules for TV should mean UKIP get plenty more coverage than the Brexit party I think.
    When does the short/long periods begin/end - are those even a thing ?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Any chance the NCA can report on Aaron Banks anytime soon or will this happen after the UK leaves .
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    kinabalu said:

    It's just a continental version of nationalism. Creating a power block that can get advantage over other blocks and the third world in trade and politically whilst internalizing the benefits. Nationalism without a single flag. Little Europeans are the new little Englanders.

    There is also the not wholly reprehensible objective of rendering military conflict between European nations almost unthinkable.
    There is that yes, that's the usual consequence of forming a power block, you look elsewhere for your conflicts
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    nico67 said:

    I see the hate party has launched .

    Farage doesn’t want Brexit and was overjoyed when the EU gave the 6 month extension . The only way to satisfy his large ego is to remain relevant and that means the UK staying .

    :+1:
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,957
    edited April 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    Is there a purdah period for the Euros or locals ? Time rules for TV should mean UKIP get plenty more coverage than the Brexit party I think.
    When does the short/long periods begin/end - are those even a thing ?

    I think purdah has effectively begun.

    Kicked in for the locals last month. Then will recommence on the 3rd of May for the locals.
  • If we do end up with a GE, I wonder if that means a 9 party debate.... I suspect CHUK and TBP would have to be doing well in the polls to be allowed in.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Pulpstar said:

    Is there a purdah period for the Euros or locals ? Time rules for TV should mean UKIP get plenty more coverage than the Brexit party I think.
    When does the short/long periods begin/end - are those even a thing ?

    I expect Farage will get far more publicity than Batten.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Farage party wants No Deal, although he wants to call it 'clean break'.

    The Overton window of Brexit has moved from 'no one is talking about leaving the single market' to 'just get out with no deal and damn the economic chaos' in three years.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    If we do end up with a GE, I wonder if that means a 9 party debate.... I suspect CHUK and TBP would have to be doing well in the polls to be allowed in.

    SDP will want in too now they have Rod Liddle and the OFlynn.
    Tory, Lab, Lib Dem, Green, PC, SNP, UKIP, Brexit, SDP, ChUK, WEP and quick restore of Natural Law
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited April 2019
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Is there a purdah period for the Euros or locals ? Time rules for TV should mean UKIP get plenty more coverage than the Brexit party I think.
    When does the short/long periods begin/end - are those even a thing ?

    I expect Farage will get far more publicity than Batten.
    And that more publicity for Batten may end up helping Farage anyway...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    nico67 said:

    I see the hate party has launched .

    Farage doesn’t want Brexit and was overjoyed when the EU gave the 6 month extension . The only way to satisfy his large ego is to remain relevant and that means the UK staying .

    :+1:
    And his slogan is cynical and dishonest given the damage Brexit is doing
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Pulpstar said:

    Is there a purdah period for the Euros or locals ? Time rules for TV should mean UKIP get plenty more coverage than the Brexit party I think.
    When does the short/long periods begin/end - are those even a thing ?

    There is for the locals. Frankie Boyle was on his TV show last night, making jokes about having to write jokes about Vince Cable.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Sean_F said:
    Raedwald for a boy, freya for a girl
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,274

    Scott_P said:
    I’m not likely to support Farage, but he is clearly not the career political class having had a job before getting into politics. I can’t be the only one who understands that as someone who’d done PPE at uni, worked at think tank / spad / union before becoming an MP.
    Your career politician definition rules out Theresa May, Jeremy Corbyn (just) and Vince Cable, to name but three.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:
    Instead of Brexit, they should have been called Brignitas.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    Scott_P said:
    I’m not likely to support Farage, but he is clearly not the career political class having had a job before getting into politics. I can’t be the only one who understands that as someone who’d done PPE at uni, worked at think tank / spad / union before becoming an MP.
    To be fair, and I'm never ever likely to vote for a Faragist party, I agree. He was reasonably well known in the City, especially on the Metals Exchange, before getting elected an MEP in 1999.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,274

    Scott_P said:
    Instead of Brexit, they should have been called Brignitas.
    The Faragists
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. F, daft suggestion. Khaleesi is a title, not a name.

    Reminds me, my mother told me of some chap, maybe a Trump relative, who had a first or middle name Christ. I objected on the same basis.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Instead of Brexit, they should have been called Brignitas.

    Like
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    Mr. F, daft suggestion. Khaleesi is a title, not a name.

    Reminds me, my mother told me of some chap, maybe a Trump relative, who had a first or middle name Christ. I objected on the same basis.

    Hundreds of American girls have been named Khaleesi.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    Scott_P said:
    I’m not likely to support Farage, but he is clearly not the career political class having had a job before getting into politics. I can’t be the only one who understands that as someone who’d done PPE at uni, worked at think tank / spad / union before becoming an MP.
    Your career politician definition rules out Theresa May, Jeremy Corbyn (just) and Vince Cable, to name but three.
    Indeed. Especially Vince, who didn't get elected until he was in his 50's, although he'd stood several times before that.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. F, freedom means the right for people to be wrong.
This discussion has been closed.