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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The next generation: the best outside bet for the Tory crown?

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited April 15 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The next generation: the best outside bet for the Tory crown?

To win the Conservative leadership – and quite probably the office of Prime Minister – the successful candidate is assumed to need three things.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 6,587
    Anyone but IDS
  • eekeek Posts: 3,387
    I think you are looking at the next but 1 leader rather than the Tories next leader.

    And then you have to ask yourself what exactly will the Tory party look like in 5 years time..
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,631
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Anyone but IDS

    Would you mind turning up the volume on that comment?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 13,977
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 11,228
    Meh vs. Average vs. Nope
  • eekeek Posts: 3,387
    I'm glad I visited it last year. I suspect I won't see it complete again in my life time (and I expect to live another 40 years or so).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 28,073
    Horrible scenes at Notre Dame.

    The PoW refurbishment project should take note. The second palace could easily befall the fate of the first during restoration.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 23,243
    FPT

    I haven't been posting much recently as I am concentrating on getting my diabetes under control with weight loss and exercise. I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2009 and to date have not required medication but as is so often the case, I took liberties with bread, biscuits, chocolates, cakes and fizzy drinks and need to regain control. Have lost 1 stone in last three weeks so doing ok so far.

    As for politics I have decided to let it all flow over me for a while, and while I do lurk from time to time, I am not posting as frequently but rest assured it is not because I am upset or out of sorts with anyone, it is just maybe time for a little rest

    I have not gone away folks
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 19,885
    Problem with Cleverly is that he isn’t very Conservative and is a bit* wet.

    Mercer a better bet.



    *very
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 21,497
    Not looking good at all. Seat of the fire is right in the middle of the cathedral, top of the roof or base of the spire. Scaffolding around suggests works in progress.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 19,885
    A single fire engine - seems a bit pathetic.

    Still a poignant Paris in flames motif..
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 2,012
    I like James Cleverly, he comes over as a solid bloke, free of malice, but ironically given the name I sense he does not have quite enough up top to be a credible party leader.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 361
    The next Tory leader needs to be a charismatic figure who can talk like a human being and maybe even win a ******* election. They need to be 'populist' in the sense of speaking to and exciting the voters with their promises - populist parties of the right are taking the world by storm, except of course in Britain, where our dullards can't hit an open goal from 5 feet away.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 21,497

    FPT

    I haven't been posting much recently as I am concentrating on getting my diabetes under control with weight loss and exercise. I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2009 and to date have not required medication but as is so often the case, I took liberties with bread, biscuits, chocolates, cakes and fizzy drinks and need to regain control. Have lost 1 stone in last three weeks so doing ok so far.

    As for politics I have decided to let it all flow over me for a while, and while I do lurk from time to time, I am not posting as frequently but rest assured it is not because I am upset or out of sorts with anyone, it is just maybe time for a little rest

    I have not gone away folks

    Have fun, good luck with life and see you soon! I think the politics of the last few months has got to a lot of us.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 10,822
    edited April 15
    AndyJS said:
    There will be a genocide of rats there. The grounds around Notre Dame are teaming with them
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 1,760
    edited April 15
    blueblue said:

    The next Tory leader needs to be a charismatic figure who can talk like a human being and maybe even win a ******* election. They need to be 'populist' in the sense of speaking to and exciting the voters with their promises - populist parties of the right are taking the world by storm, except of course in Britain, where our dullards can't hit an open goal from 5 feet away.

    So no one in the parliamentary party then?
  • Horrible scenes at Notre Dame.

    The PoW refurbishment project should take note. The second palace could easily befall the fate of the first during restoration.

    Fingers crossed.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 23,243
    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    I haven't been posting much recently as I am concentrating on getting my diabetes under control with weight loss and exercise. I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2009 and to date have not required medication but as is so often the case, I took liberties with bread, biscuits, chocolates, cakes and fizzy drinks and need to regain control. Have lost 1 stone in last three weeks so doing ok so far.

    As for politics I have decided to let it all flow over me for a while, and while I do lurk from time to time, I am not posting as frequently but rest assured it is not because I am upset or out of sorts with anyone, it is just maybe time for a little rest

    I have not gone away folks

    Have fun, good luck with life and see you soon! I think the politics of the last few months has got to a lot of us.
    Thank you for your kind remarks. I do feel very relaxed but very sorry to see Notre Dame on fire
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 52,143
    Hard to see the membership not picking a hard Brexiteer like Boris or Raab if they get to the final 2.

    If not a fresh faced Leaver like Cleverly might be possible
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 1,760
    edited April 15
    ...
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 361

    blueblue said:

    The next Tory leader needs to be a charismatic figure who can talk like a human being and maybe even win a ******* election. They need to be 'populist' in the sense of speaking to and exciting the voters with their promises - populist parties of the right are taking the world by storm, except of course in Britain, where our dullards can't hit an open goal from 5 feet away.

    So no one in the parliamentary party then.
    No one who leaps to mind. Ideally, I'd like a time machine back to 2016 Boris, when he could perhaps have been that leader. But today - who the hell knows?
  • isamisam Posts: 25,352
    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history
  • glwglw Posts: 4,889
    The world's smartest man solved Boeing's problems this morning, let's see what he has had to say this afternoon.

    So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) 15 April 2019
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 361
    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    That strategy was such a no-brainer that the implications for the Tories' collective IQ is really quite terrifying.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,180
    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    And then what?

    Boris' time as MoL does not bode well.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 24,353
    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    Even more so when you consider that May dished out more than £350m subsequently - and it has done the Tories no good.

    They had another chance to do the £350m thing in the June 2017 election. As, ahem, some of us on here were screaming for them to do. But that would have vindicated Boris, made hm the heir apparent - and that wouldn't do. Wouldn't do at all....
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,180

    Horrible scenes at Notre Dame.

    The PoW refurbishment project should take note. The second palace could easily befall the fate of the first during restoration.

    Fingers crossed.
    I remember the York Minster fire. Thankfully the cathedral is still a magnificent sight today.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,180
    I see the Brexiteer Crew are still labouring under the delusion that a leaver would have done better.

    And when their choice is Boris ...

    Hahahahahaha.

    Ha.

    :)

    Ha.
  • Horrible scenes at Notre Dame.

    The PoW refurbishment project should take note. The second palace could easily befall the fate of the first during restoration.

    Fingers crossed.
    I remember the York Minster fire. Thankfully the cathedral is still a magnificent sight today.
    I meant fingers crossed the other way. ... .
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 21,497
    edited April 15
    glw said:

    The world's smartest man solved Boeing's problems this morning, let's see what he has had to say this afternoon.

    So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) 15 April 2019

    LOL, just about the one method of firefighting that could cause more problems that it would solve?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 36,408
    Will any part of the building be recoverable?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 22,675

    FPT

    I haven't been posting much recently as I am concentrating on getting my diabetes under control with weight loss and exercise. I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2009 and to date have not required medication but as is so often the case, I took liberties with bread, biscuits, chocolates, cakes and fizzy drinks and need to regain control. Have lost 1 stone in last three weeks so doing ok so far.

    As for politics I have decided to let it all flow over me for a while, and while I do lurk from time to time, I am not posting as frequently but rest assured it is not because I am upset or out of sorts with anyone, it is just maybe time for a little rest

    I have not gone away folks

    👍
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 13,977
    RobD said:

    Will any part of the building be recoverable?
    Not looking good atm.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 24,353

    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    And then what?

    Boris' time as MoL does not bode well.
    Why? One of the biggest multi-cultural cities on the planet didn't exactly fall into the Thames on his watch.....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394
    glw said:

    The world's smartest man solved Boeing's problems this morning, let's see what he has had to say this afternoon.

    So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) 15 April 2019
    If Donald Trump went there and verbally repeated his last 50 tweets, the amount of wind might blow the fire out.

    On a serious note that looks extremely bad. Can't see how they save anything east of the transepts in these pictures.
  • mattmatt Posts: 2,700

    Horrible scenes at Notre Dame.

    The PoW refurbishment project should take note. The second palace could easily befall the fate of the first during restoration.

    One can only hope so.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 28,073
    Terrible terrible scenes.

    Devastating news to hear the spire has collapsed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 28,073
    matt said:

    Horrible scenes at Notre Dame.

    The PoW refurbishment project should take note. The second palace could easily befall the fate of the first during restoration.

    One can only hope so.
    I’d say arson could constitute a significant threat.

    I hope you’re not serious. Desecration of such an iconic national monument would be a tragedy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394
    edited April 15
    matt said:

    Horrible scenes at Notre Dame.

    The PoW refurbishment project should take note. The second palace could easily befall the fate of the first during restoration.

    One can only hope so.
    Well, the current set up was built (and considerably modernised) when the original Palace of Westminster burned down in 1834. Perhaps a second conflagration would give a chance to do what that sentimental old duffer Churchill flunked on after the Blitz and build something new and effective.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,469
    Horrific images. Can see smoke in the sky from the flat. Looks like it's burning from the inside out and it's clearly too intense at the moment for them to risk lives to save a monument, no matter how important it is.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 13,977
    edited April 15

    Horrific images. Can see smoke in the sky from the flat. Looks like it's burning from the inside out and it's clearly too intense at the moment for them to risk lives to save a monument, no matter how important it is.

    Good luck to these lads.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394
    edited April 15

    Horrific images. Can see smoke in the sky from the flat. Looks like it's burning from the inside out and it's clearly too intense at the moment for them to risk lives to save a monument, no matter how important it is.

    You would have thought however intense the flames, the walls will remain largely intact.

    But the interior, the woodwork, the glass, possibly the bells...

    It could easily be like a larger scale version of Coventry.

    Edit - you also have to wonder, even if they can save the east end, how badly the organ will be damaged. Smoke, soot and electrical surges do not mix with delicate pipe work.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 50,862
    Cleverly would be a very good choice; he's a leaver, not from the Eton/Oxfordocracy, and has a brain.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 5,011
    Evening all :)

    On topic for a moment, put bluntly, no.

    There are three scenarios it seems to this non-Conservative observer - the "In Government" election, the "250" election and the "150" election.

    If May steps down voluntarily (Cameron) or is forced from office (Thatcher) while the Conservatives remain in Government, it's much more likely the successor will come from the Cabinet so Hunt, Javid, Rudd perhaps?

    The "250" election is when the Conservatives have lost power but only narrowly - they are a strong Opposition and it looks likely they will be out for only one term or less. Had such an event occurred in 1997 and for example Portillo had survived, would Hague have become leader from the position of Shadow Welsh Secretary? Seems improbable. Again you are looking at a youngish senior ex-Cabinet member who can re-invigorate the Party in a couple of years and take them back to power.

    The "150" election is the 1997 scenario - the Conservatives have been given the dockside hooker treatment (to paraphrase Me Eagles) and a number of those who might have led the party have either fallen or realise that two terms minimum puts them out of the running. At that point even those in their late 40s among the survivors such as Tugendhat and Cleverly look unlikely. It's also worth mentioning Braintree was Labour from 1997 to 2005 there's no guarantee Cleverly would be among the survivors.

    The obvious younger candidates to this observer are Kemi Badenoch and Rishi Sunak whose seats survived the 1997 purge and would likely survive again. Both would be a notable contrast to an ageing Labour frontbench and would be worth considering but only if returning to power looked like a 10-year project.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 19,215
    Really horrible news on Notre Dame
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 2,012
    Is Trump taking the piss?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 2,694

    FPT

    I haven't been posting much recently as I am concentrating on getting my diabetes under control with weight loss and exercise. I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2009 and to date have not required medication but as is so often the case, I took liberties with bread, biscuits, chocolates, cakes and fizzy drinks and need to regain control. Have lost 1 stone in last three weeks so doing ok so far.

    As for politics I have decided to let it all flow over me for a while, and while I do lurk from time to time, I am not posting as frequently but rest assured it is not because I am upset or out of sorts with anyone, it is just maybe time for a little rest

    I have not gone away folks

    Have a look at low carb/keto diets. People have put T2D into remission with a low carb diet, and lost shedloads of weight. It works.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 24,875
    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    I don't think there's been anything that's happened of late that has convinced me that he has any particular competence.

    Would he have been organisationally superior in terms of long-term No Deal planning from the start? There's nothing in his background that suggests the methodical "putting the pieces in place" would have happened under his watch.

    Would he have been more inclusive, in terms of reaching out across the House of Commons to assemble a coalition? Unlikely.

    Would he have had the electoral disaster of 2016? Well, probably not. But that's a massive f*cking counterfactual.

    Ultimately, the facts of negotiating with the EU would not have changed due to the presence of Boris on the team. Maybe he'd have had more red lines early on. Maybe he could have done a better job. But he is not a man with an eye for detail, and it seems more likely he would have handwaved something through, not realising its significance until later.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394
    kinabalu said:

    Is Trump taking the piss?

    The words 'Trump' and 'President' consecutively are the most epic piss take since Caligula made Incitatus a senator.

    The only thing is, it isn't funny.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 16,395
    This is quite shocking. It's very sad that future generations are not going to be able to appreciate such a beautiful piece of architecture.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 23,243

    FPT

    I haven't been posting much recently as I am concentrating on getting my diabetes under control with weight loss and exercise. I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2009 and to date have not required medication but as is so often the case, I took liberties with bread, biscuits, chocolates, cakes and fizzy drinks and need to regain control. Have lost 1 stone in last three weeks so doing ok so far.

    As for politics I have decided to let it all flow over me for a while, and while I do lurk from time to time, I am not posting as frequently but rest assured it is not because I am upset or out of sorts with anyone, it is just maybe time for a little rest

    I have not gone away folks

    Have a look at low carb/keto diets. People have put T2D into remission with a low carb diet, and lost shedloads of weight. It works.
    Yes thank you. I am following a strict diet and am determined to recover the control I have had for the last 10 years
  • glwglw Posts: 4,889
    kinabalu said:

    Is Trump taking the piss?

    It would probably be better for the world if he was, but sadly I think we must assume Trump is serious, and therefore quite dangerously stupid. God help us all if there is a real crisis when Trump's in charge.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 29,338
    Only visited Paris once, 20 years ago, but sad news about Notre Dame :(
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 24,125
    The desperation stage seems to have been reached quickly.

    The Conservatives need a leader who all of them can at least speak with. I appreciate that limits the field considerably. They also need one that all of them can take seriously. That limits it further.

    The Conservatives will probably choose a candidate who fails one or other of these tests, reasoning along the lines that Aaron Bell does. But for me it comes down to the same unpalatable choice between Michael Gove, Jeremy Hunt, Sajid Javid and maybe Matthew Hancock.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 24,125
    The desperation stage seems to have been reached quickly.

    The Conservatives need a leader who all of them can at least speak with. I appreciate that limits the field considerably. They also need one that all of them can take seriously. That limits it further.

    The Conservatives will probably choose a candidate who fails one or other of these tests, reasoning along the lines that Aaron Bell does. But for me it comes down to the same unpalatable choice between Michael Gove, Jeremy Hunt, Sajid Javid and maybe Matthew Hancock.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 24,125
    The desperation stage seems to have been reached quickly.

    The Conservatives need a leader who all of them can at least speak with. I appreciate that limits the field considerably. They also need one that all of them can take seriously. That limits it further.

    The Conservatives will probably choose a candidate who fails one or other of these tests, reasoning along the lines that Aaron Bell does. But for me it comes down to the same unpalatable choice between Michael Gove, Jeremy Hunt, Sajid Javid and maybe Matthew Hancock.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 8,501
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    On topic for a moment, put bluntly, no.

    There are three scenarios it seems to this non-Conservative observer - the "In Government" election, the "250" election and the "150" election.

    If May steps down voluntarily (Cameron) or is forced from office (Thatcher) while the Conservatives remain in Government, it's much more likely the successor will come from the Cabinet so Hunt, Javid, Rudd perhaps?

    Well, yes, they’re more likely - but shorter prices! Though I think, given the membership role, we might yet be in for a surprise. For fuller disclosure my best four results (across the Con leader and PM markets) are Cleverly, Hancock, Hunt & Javid - in that order at present.

    Notre Dame is just heartbreaking.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,180
    ydoethur said:

    Horrific images. Can see smoke in the sky from the flat. Looks like it's burning from the inside out and it's clearly too intense at the moment for them to risk lives to save a monument, no matter how important it is.

    You would have thought however intense the flames, the walls will remain largely intact.

    But the interior, the woodwork, the glass, possibly the bells...

    It could easily be like a larger scale version of Coventry.

    Edit - you also have to wonder, even if they can save the east end, how badly the organ will be damaged. Smoke, soot and electrical surges do not mix with delicate pipe work.
    IANAE, but fire and stonework - especially stonework - is not good. Intense fire can change the colour of stone, cause chemical changes, make it friable and cause spalling, and thermal shock can destroy walls (yet alone falling woodwork levering out and knocking down walls).

    There is a chance that the walls will not be structurally sound for the sort of weight they have to hold afterwards.

    On the other hand, as I mentioned earlier, they magnificently restored York Minster's South Transept. Except they're sayingg the entire interior is ablaze. :(
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 443
    edited April 15
    That fire isn't going out anytime soon, no matter how many times Dermot Murnaghan says it looks like the French fireys have got it under control. It'll be burning for hours if not days under the rubble of the roof, the rubble acting like a huge charcoal oven consuming any wooden structures or furniture that currently remain. No easy way to fight it, you can't commit crews inside due to risk of further collapse, and it's not easy getting big water onto it. The Pompiers will be earning their pay tonight.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 7,809

    FPT

    I haven't been posting much recently as I am concentrating on getting my diabetes under control with weight loss and exercise. I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2009 and to date have not required medication but as is so often the case, I took liberties with bread, biscuits, chocolates, cakes and fizzy drinks and need to regain control. Have lost 1 stone in last three weeks so doing ok so far.

    As for politics I have decided to let it all flow over me for a while, and while I do lurk from time to time, I am not posting as frequently but rest assured it is not because I am upset or out of sorts with anyone, it is just maybe time for a little rest

    I have not gone away folks

    Have a look at low carb/keto diets. People have put T2D into remission with a low carb diet, and lost shedloads of weight. It works.
    Yes thank you. I am following a strict diet and am determined to recover the control I have had for the last 10 years
    10 kg weight loss is the key to getting remission according to Prof Taylor of the DiRECT trial:

    https://www.diabetes.org.uk/research/research-round-up/research-spotlight/research-spotlight-low-calorie-liquid-diet

    There are other useful positives for blood pressure, and arthritis too in such weight loss.

    Keeping it off is the tough bit.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 16,802
    Maybe Mrs May's ambition is to be the last Tory Prime Minister?
  • That fire isn't going out anytime soon, no matter how many times Dermot Murnaghan says it looks like the French fireys have got it under control. It'll be burning for hours if not days under the rubble of the roof, the rubble acting like a huge charcoal oven consuming any wooden structures or furniture that currently remain. No easy way to fight it, you can't commit crews inside due to risk of further collapse, and it's not easy getting big water onto it. The Pompiers will be earning their pay tonight.

    Reports at the moment that the wooden structure is destroyed. Horrifying.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 26,976
    “What is civilisation? I don’t know. I can’t define it in abstract terms, yet. But I think I can recognise it when I see it, and I’m looking at it now.”

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 33,283
    Terrible news from Paris.

    If it had been St Pauls the Brexit metaphors would be queuing round the block....
  • isamisam Posts: 25,352

    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    And then what?

    Boris' time as MoL does not bode well.
    The person who tipped the balance in the campaign would have had the chance to take responsibility instead of the neither here or there nonsense we’ve had since
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 1,520


    IANAE, but fire and stonework - especially stonework - is not good. Intense fire can change the colour of stone, cause chemical changes, make it friable and cause spalling, and thermal shock can destroy walls (yet alone falling woodwork levering out and knocking down walls).


    They've been trying to get repairs done for years, apparently the stonework was already in pretty rotten shape (perhaps inevitably given it's 900 years old).
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 23,243
    Foxy said:

    FPT

    I haven't been posting much recently as I am concentrating on getting my diabetes under control with weight loss and exercise. I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2009 and to date have not required medication but as is so often the case, I took liberties with bread, biscuits, chocolates, cakes and fizzy drinks and need to regain control. Have lost 1 stone in last three weeks so doing ok so far.

    As for politics I have decided to let it all flow over me for a while, and while I do lurk from time to time, I am not posting as frequently but rest assured it is not because I am upset or out of sorts with anyone, it is just maybe time for a little rest

    I have not gone away folks

    Have a look at low carb/keto diets. People have put T2D into remission with a low carb diet, and lost shedloads of weight. It works.
    Yes thank you. I am following a strict diet and am determined to recover the control I have had for the last 10 years
    10 kg weight loss is the key to getting remission according to Prof Taylor of the DiRECT trial:

    https://www.diabetes.org.uk/research/research-round-up/research-spotlight/research-spotlight-low-calorie-liquid-diet

    There are other useful positives for blood pressure, and arthritis too in such weight loss.

    Keeping it off is the tough bit.
    Thanks Dr Foxy. I have lost 7 kg so far and will achieve 10 kg and I appreciate the benefit on blood pressure and my osteoarthritis. It is a no brainer really
  • isamisam Posts: 25,352
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    I don't think there's been anything that's happened of late that has convinced me that he has any particular competence.

    Would he have been organisationally superior in terms of long-term No Deal planning from the start? There's nothing in his background that suggests the methodical "putting the pieces in place" would have happened under his watch.

    Would he have been more inclusive, in terms of reaching out across the House of Commons to assemble a coalition? Unlikely.

    Would he have had the electoral disaster of 2016? Well, probably not. But that's a massive f*cking counterfactual.

    Ultimately, the facts of negotiating with the EU would not have changed due to the presence of Boris on the team. Maybe he'd have had more red lines early on. Maybe he could have done a better job. But he is not a man with an eye for detail, and it seems more likely he would have handwaved something through, not realising its significance until later.

    I don’t particularly think he’s any good. But they’d probably have won a majority with him in charge promising £350m pw for the NHS in the manifesto and taking on Jez on tv than May saying she’s going to nick your pension and ducking the debates
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,180

    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    And then what?

    Boris' time as MoL does not bode well.
    Why? One of the biggest multi-cultural cities on the planet didn't exactly fall into the Thames on his watch.....
    As has been discussed on here many times, he had a rather (ahem) laid-back management style, and his achievements were few. But worst of all was the Garden Bridge project: a vanity scheme to benefit him and his chums, and he treated the inquiry with aloof contempt. It cost £53 million, and they didn't even get a spade in the ground.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 23,243

    That fire isn't going out anytime soon, no matter how many times Dermot Murnaghan says it looks like the French fireys have got it under control. It'll be burning for hours if not days under the rubble of the roof, the rubble acting like a huge charcoal oven consuming any wooden structures or furniture that currently remain. No easy way to fight it, you can't commit crews inside due to risk of further collapse, and it's not easy getting big water onto it. The Pompiers will be earning their pay tonight.

    He continues to talk utter rubbish commenting on things he cannot possibly know.

    A perfect example of the poor level of journalism generally and in particular on brexit
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,180
    isam said:

    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    And then what?

    Boris' time as MoL does not bode well.
    The person who tipped the balance in the campaign would have had the chance to take responsibility instead of the neither here or there nonsense we’ve had since
    Again, I refer you to Boris' track record ...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 12,978
    eek said:

    I'm glad I visited it last year. I suspect I won't see it complete again in my life time (and I expect to live another 40 years or so).
    It is utterly heartbreaking to see.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,194
    edited April 15
    It will have to be rebuilt.

    The French State owns the building (despite separation of church and state in 1905), so they can pay.

    No expense should be spared for such an iconic building.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,180
    An evil little part of me says they should rebuild Notre-Dame from scaffolding, as that appears to be holding up well ...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394

    ydoethur said:

    Horrific images. Can see smoke in the sky from the flat. Looks like it's burning from the inside out and it's clearly too intense at the moment for them to risk lives to save a monument, no matter how important it is.

    You would have thought however intense the flames, the walls will remain largely intact.

    But the interior, the woodwork, the glass, possibly the bells...

    It could easily be like a larger scale version of Coventry.

    Edit - you also have to wonder, even if they can save the east end, how badly the organ will be damaged. Smoke, soot and electrical surges do not mix with delicate pipe work.
    IANAE, but fire and stonework - especially stonework - is not good. Intense fire can change the colour of stone, cause chemical changes, make it friable and cause spalling, and thermal shock can destroy walls (yet alone falling woodwork levering out and knocking down walls).

    There is a chance that the walls will not be structurally sound for the sort of weight they have to hold afterwards.

    On the other hand, as I mentioned earlier, they magnificently restored York Minster's South Transept. Except they're sayingg the entire interior is ablaze. :(
    If Coventry could withstand incendiaries, there is a reasonable chance the walls might survive this.

    But if the interior is on fire...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 7,939

    That fire isn't going out anytime soon, no matter how many times Dermot Murnaghan says it looks like the French fireys have got it under control. It'll be burning for hours if not days under the rubble of the roof, the rubble acting like a huge charcoal oven consuming any wooden structures or furniture that currently remain. No easy way to fight it, you can't commit crews inside due to risk of further collapse, and it's not easy getting big water onto it. The Pompiers will be earning their pay tonight.

    Reports at the moment that the wooden structure is destroyed. Horrifying.
    I seem to recall that the reason they put stone vaulted roofs in the gothic cathedrals in the middle ages was to save them in the event of a fire. Have there been any reports that the vaulting has collapsed?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394
    edited April 15

    That fire isn't going out anytime soon, no matter how many times Dermot Murnaghan says it looks like the French fireys have got it under control. It'll be burning for hours if not days under the rubble of the roof, the rubble acting like a huge charcoal oven consuming any wooden structures or furniture that currently remain. No easy way to fight it, you can't commit crews inside due to risk of further collapse, and it's not easy getting big water onto it. The Pompiers will be earning their pay tonight.

    Reports at the moment that the wooden structure is destroyed. Horrifying.
    I seem to recall that the reason they put stone vaulted roofs in the gothic cathedrals in the middle ages was to save them in the event of a fire. Have there been any reports that the vaulting has collapsed?
    The prefect said they were waiting to see if the vaulting would protect it.

    But it's one thing protecting the interior from a fire in the wooden roof, and quite another to expect it to withstand the spire collapsing on it.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 943
    More imbecilic comments from the moron in the WH .

    Would he ever just STFU .
  • isamisam Posts: 25,352
    edited April 15

    isam said:

    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    And then what?

    Boris' time as MoL does not bode well.
    The person who tipped the balance in the campaign would have had the chance to take responsibility instead of the neither here or there nonsense we’ve had since
    Again, I refer you to Boris' track record ...
    Who has a good comparable record? At least he’s won a couple of mayoralties and the referendum.

    As I say I can take him or leave him, but at least he has energy and ideas. And the 350m a week promise was a no brainer

    Lets be fair, you used to argue with me that UKIP should get rid of Farage if they wanted to prosper... hardly a great track record of predictions
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394
    nico67 said:

    More imbecilic comments from the moron in the WH .

    Would he ever just STFU .

    A Donald Trump tweet is like a Game of Thrones episode. There are around 200 characters and something unimaginably dreadful happens.

    (With apologies to the person who memorably came up with that line about Richard Dawkins.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 7,809

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    I haven't been posting much recently as I am concentrating on getting my diabetes under control with weight loss and exercise. I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2009 and to date have not required medication but as is so often the case, I took liberties with bread, biscuits, chocolates, cakes and fizzy drinks and need to regain control. Have lost 1 stone in last three weeks so doing ok so far.

    As for politics I have decided to let it all flow over me for a while, and while I do lurk from time to time, I am not posting as frequently but rest assured it is not because I am upset or out of sorts with anyone, it is just maybe time for a little rest

    I have not gone away folks

    Have a look at low carb/keto diets. People have put T2D into remission with a low carb diet, and lost shedloads of weight. It works.
    Yes thank you. I am following a strict diet and am determined to recover the control I have had for the last 10 years
    10 kg weight loss is the key to getting remission according to Prof Taylor of the DiRECT trial:

    https://www.diabetes.org.uk/research/research-round-up/research-spotlight/research-spotlight-low-calorie-liquid-diet

    There are other useful positives for blood pressure, and arthritis too in such weight loss.

    Keeping it off is the tough bit.
    Thanks Dr Foxy. I have lost 7 kg so far and will achieve 10 kg and I appreciate the benefit on blood pressure and my osteoarthritis. It is a no brainer really
    Prof Taylor is an enthusiast for his liquid diet, which is rather bland but works, but when I have seen him speak has been quite open that any diet that delivers the weight loss works. He is quite sceptical about exercise as he thinks this inhibits weight loss because of raised metabolism and hunger.

    A kg of fat is about 9000 Calories, so to lose 10kg* means consuming 1500 fewer Calories per day for 60 days. Abdominal fat is the bit that matters for diabetes, and waist at belly button level should be less than half of height is a simple metric.

    *Initial weight loss is stored glycogen and water, so quicker.

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 6,587
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    And then what?

    Boris' time as MoL does not bode well.
    The person who tipped the balance in the campaign would have had the chance to take responsibility instead of the neither here or there nonsense we’ve had since
    Again, I refer you to Boris' track record ...
    Who has a good comparable record? At least he’s won a couple of mayoralties and the referendum.

    As I say I can take him or leave him, but at least he has energy and ideas. And the 350m a week promise was a no brainer

    Lets be fair, you used to argue with me that UKIP should get rid of Farage if they wanted to prosper... hardly a great track record of predictions
    Why?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,180
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Horrific images. Can see smoke in the sky from the flat. Looks like it's burning from the inside out and it's clearly too intense at the moment for them to risk lives to save a monument, no matter how important it is.

    You would have thought however intense the flames, the walls will remain largely intact.

    But the interior, the woodwork, the glass, possibly the bells...

    It could easily be like a larger scale version of Coventry.

    Edit - you also have to wonder, even if they can save the east end, how badly the organ will be damaged. Smoke, soot and electrical surges do not mix with delicate pipe work.
    IANAE, but fire and stonework - especially stonework - is not good. Intense fire can change the colour of stone, cause chemical changes, make it friable and cause spalling, and thermal shock can destroy walls (yet alone falling woodwork levering out and knocking down walls).

    There is a chance that the walls will not be structurally sound for the sort of weight they have to hold afterwards.

    On the other hand, as I mentioned earlier, they magnificently restored York Minster's South Transept. Except they're sayingg the entire interior is ablaze. :(
    If Coventry could withstand incendiaries, there is a reasonable chance the walls might survive this.

    But if the interior is on fire...
    Much will probably depend on the type of stone, and the length of the fire it is subjected to. They also didn't rebuild Coventry; just because the walls are standing does not mean they're strong enough to support the hundreds of tonnes of structure that used to stand above them.

    I hope I'm being too pessimistic.

    If something good can come out of this, it may be that we start to appreciate the marvellous architecture that surrounds us, and that we often take too much for granted.

    Except Brutalist ...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 23,243
    edited April 15
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT

    I haven't been posting much recently as I am concentrating on getting my diabetes under control with weight loss and exercise. I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2009 and to date have not required medication but as is so often the case, I took liberties with bread, biscuits, chocolates, cakes and fizzy drinks and need to regain control. Have lost 1 stone in last three weeks so doing ok so far.

    As for politics I have decided to let it all flow over me for a while, and while I do lurk from time to time, I am not posting as frequently but rest assured it is not because I am upset or out of sorts with anyone, it is just maybe time for a little rest

    I have not gone away folks

    Have a look at low carb/keto diets. People have put T2D into remission with a low carb diet, and lost shedloads of weight. It works.
    Yes thank you. I am following a strict diet and am determined to recover the control I have had for the last 10 years
    10 kg weight loss is the key to getting remission according to Prof Taylor of the DiRECT trial:

    https://www.diabetes.org.uk/research/research-round-up/research-spotlight/research-spotlight-low-calorie-liquid-diet

    There are other useful positives for blood pressure, and arthritis too in such weight loss.

    Keeping it off is the tough bit.
    Thanks Dr Foxy. I have lost 7 kg so far and will achieve 10 kg and I appreciate the benefit on blood pressure and my osteoarthritis. It is a no brainer really
    Prof Taylor is an enthusiast for his liquid diet, which is rather bland but works, but when I have seen him speak has been quite open that any diet that delivers the weight loss works. He is quite sceptical about exercise as he thinks this inhibits weight loss because of raised metabolism and hunger.

    A kg of fat is about 9000 Calories, so to lose 10kg* means consuming 1500 fewer Calories per day for 60 days. Abdominal fat is the bit that matters for diabetes, and waist at belly button level should be less than half of height is a simple metric.

    *Initial weight loss is stored glycogen and water, so quicker.

    Thank you again. I do agree on exercise which I am restricted due to my arthritis
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,180
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    And then what?

    Boris' time as MoL does not bode well.
    The person who tipped the balance in the campaign would have had the chance to take responsibility instead of the neither here or there nonsense we’ve had since
    Again, I refer you to Boris' track record ...
    Who has a good comparable record? At least he’s won a couple of mayoralties and the referendum.

    As I say I can take him or leave him, but at least he has energy and ideas. And the 350m a week promise was a no brainer

    Lets be fair, you used to argue with me that UKIP should get rid of Farage if they wanted to prosper... hardly a great track record of predictions
    Boris has energy? One of the complaints against him as MoL is exactly the opposite: he was lazy.

    I think your last paragraph is incorrect: I doubt that was me.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394
    edited April 15

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Horrific images. Can see smoke in the sky from the flat. Looks like it's burning from the inside out and it's clearly too intense at the moment for them to risk lives to save a monument, no matter how important it is.

    You would have thought however intense the flames, the walls will remain largely intact.

    But the interior, the woodwork, the glass, possibly the bells...

    It could easily be like a larger scale version of Coventry.

    Edit - you also have to wonder, even if they can save the east end, how badly the organ will be damaged. Smoke, soot and electrical surges do not mix with delicate pipe work.
    IANAE, but fire and stonework - especially stonework - is not good. Intense fire can change the colour of stone, cause chemical changes, make it friable and cause spalling, and thermal shock can destroy walls (yet alone falling woodwork levering out and knocking down walls).

    There is a chance that the walls will not be structurally sound for the sort of weight they have to hold afterwards.

    On the other hand, as I mentioned earlier, they magnificently restored York Minster's South Transept. Except they're sayingg the entire interior is ablaze. :(
    If Coventry could withstand incendiaries, there is a reasonable chance the walls might survive this.

    But if the interior is on fire...
    Much will probably depend on the type of stone, and the length of the fire it is subjected to. They also didn't rebuild Coventry; just because the walls are standing does not mean they're strong enough to support the hundreds of tonnes of structure that used to stand above them.

    I hope I'm being too pessimistic.

    If something good can come out of this, it may be that we start to appreciate the marvellous architecture that surrounds us, and that we often take too much for granted.

    Except Brutalist ...
    That wasn't the reason they didn't rebuild Coventry, though, so I don't think that's relevant. Some repairs and strengthening would have been needed, but a full restoration would have been a viable option. It was rejected because it was felt the ruin was a more fitting memorial to the Coventry Blitz.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 7,939
    ydoethur said:

    That fire isn't going out anytime soon, no matter how many times Dermot Murnaghan says it looks like the French fireys have got it under control. It'll be burning for hours if not days under the rubble of the roof, the rubble acting like a huge charcoal oven consuming any wooden structures or furniture that currently remain. No easy way to fight it, you can't commit crews inside due to risk of further collapse, and it's not easy getting big water onto it. The Pompiers will be earning their pay tonight.

    Reports at the moment that the wooden structure is destroyed. Horrifying.
    I seem to recall that the reason they put stone vaulted roofs in the gothic cathedrals in the middle ages was to save them in the event of a fire. Have there been any reports that the vaulting has collapsed?
    The prefect said they were waiting to see if the vaulting would protect it.

    But it's one thing protecting the interior from a fire in the wooden roof, and quite another to expect it to withstand the spire collapsing on it.
    Not to diminsh it but it was a wooden spire, not stone. Quite a lot of lead on there too but I guess that will melt and run off the vaulting.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,180
    edited April 15
    Foxy said:

    Prof Taylor is an enthusiast for his liquid diet, which is rather bland but works, but when I have seen him speak has been quite open that any diet that delivers the weight loss works. He is quite sceptical about exercise as he thinks this inhibits weight loss because of raised metabolism and hunger.

    A kg of fat is about 9000 Calories, so to lose 10kg* means consuming 1500 fewer Calories per day for 60 days. Abdominal fat is the bit that matters for diabetes, and waist at belly button level should be less than half of height is a simple metric.

    *Initial weight loss is stored glycogen and water, so quicker.

    I'd really say to do more exercise if you can. 1 mile (20 minutes walking) is 70-100 calories depending on build, terrain and weight carried. Contrary to what you say above, I also find that exercise reduces my appetite. Just five or six miles a day can make a difference.

    Exercise also really helps mental wellbeing: at least in my case.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 17,394

    ydoethur said:

    That fire isn't going out anytime soon, no matter how many times Dermot Murnaghan says it looks like the French fireys have got it under control. It'll be burning for hours if not days under the rubble of the roof, the rubble acting like a huge charcoal oven consuming any wooden structures or furniture that currently remain. No easy way to fight it, you can't commit crews inside due to risk of further collapse, and it's not easy getting big water onto it. The Pompiers will be earning their pay tonight.

    Reports at the moment that the wooden structure is destroyed. Horrifying.
    I seem to recall that the reason they put stone vaulted roofs in the gothic cathedrals in the middle ages was to save them in the event of a fire. Have there been any reports that the vaulting has collapsed?
    The prefect said they were waiting to see if the vaulting would protect it.

    But it's one thing protecting the interior from a fire in the wooden roof, and quite another to expect it to withstand the spire collapsing on it.
    Not to diminsh it but it was a wooden spire, not stone. Quite a lot of lead on there too but I guess that will melt and run off the vaulting.
    If several tons of flaming wood fell on me, I assure you I would collapse.

    The reports are that the interior has caught fire. Although hey also say that salvage is underway. Whether either or both are correct I don't know and I suspect we won't know before tomorrow.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 7,809

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Horrific images. Can see smoke in the sky from the flat. Looks like it's burning from the inside out and it's clearly too intense at the moment for them to risk lives to save a monument, no matter how important it is.

    You would have thought however intense the flames, the walls will remain largely intact.

    But the interior, the woodwork, the glass, possibly the bells...

    It could easily be like a larger scale version of Coventry.

    Edit - you also have to wonder, even if they can save the east end, how badly the organ will be damaged. Smoke, soot and electrical surges do not mix with delicate pipe work.
    IANAE, but fire and stonework - especially stonework - is not good. Intense fire can change the colour of stone, cause chemical changes, make it friable and cause spalling, and thermal shock can destroy walls (yet alone falling woodwork levering out and knocking down walls).

    There is a chance that the walls will not be structurally sound for the sort of weight they have to hold afterwards.

    On the other hand, as I mentioned earlier, they magnificently restored York Minster's South Transept. Except they're sayingg the entire interior is ablaze. :(
    If Coventry could withstand incendiaries, there is a reasonable chance the walls might survive this.

    But if the interior is on fire...
    Much will probably depend on the type of stone, and the length of the fire it is subjected to. They also didn't rebuild Coventry; just because the walls are standing does not mean they're strong enough to support the hundreds of tonnes of structure that used to stand above them.

    I hope I'm being too pessimistic.

    If something good can come out of this, it may be that we start to appreciate the marvellous architecture that surrounds us, and that we often take too much for granted.

    Except Brutalist ...
    I am a rather puritanical Christian, so prefer a far simpler architectural and litergical style, but am very saddened to see such loss of artistic and cultural heritage. It is part of all our history, not just the French.
  • isamisam Posts: 25,352

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    And then what?

    Boris' time as MoL does not bode well.
    The person who tipped the balance in the campaign would have had the chance to take responsibility instead of the neither here or there nonsense we’ve had since
    Again, I refer you to Boris' track record ...
    Who has a good comparable record? At least he’s won a couple of mayoralties and the referendum.

    As I say I can take him or leave him, but at least he has energy and ideas. And the 350m a week promise was a no brainer

    Lets be fair, you used to argue with me that UKIP should get rid of Farage if they wanted to prosper... hardly a great track record of predictions
    Boris has energy? One of the complaints against him as MoL is exactly the opposite: he was lazy.

    I think your last paragraph is incorrect: I doubt that was me.
    It was you, but don’t worry about it I’m watching the football now.
  • isamisam Posts: 25,352
    Ishmael_Z said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    And then what?

    Boris' time as MoL does not bode well.
    The person who tipped the balance in the campaign would have had the chance to take responsibility instead of the neither here or there nonsense we’ve had since
    Again, I refer you to Boris' track record ...
    Who has a good comparable record? At least he’s won a couple of mayoralties and the referendum.

    As I say I can take him or leave him, but at least he has energy and ideas. And the 350m a week promise was a no brainer

    Lets be fair, you used to argue with me that UKIP should get rid of Farage if they wanted to prosper... hardly a great track record of predictions
    Why?

    Who could say it was a lie on the side of a bus if he did it?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,180
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Horrific images. Can see smoke in the sky from the flat. Looks like it's burning from the inside out and it's clearly too intense at the moment for them to risk lives to save a monument, no matter how important it is.

    You would have thought however intense the flames, the walls will remain largely intact.

    But the interior, the woodwork, the glass, possibly the bells...

    It could easily be like a larger scale version of Coventry.

    Edit - you also have to wonder, even if they can save the east end, how badly the organ will be damaged. Smoke, soot and electrical surges do not mix with delicate pipe work.
    IANAE, but fire and stonework - especially stonework - is not good. Intense fire can change the colour of stone, cause chemical changes, make it friable and cause spalling, and thermal shock can destroy walls (yet alone falling woodwork levering out and knocking down walls).

    There is a chance that the walls will not be structurally sound for the sort of weight they have to hold afterwards.

    On the other hand, as I mentioned earlier, they magnificently restored York Minster's South Transept. Except they're sayingg the entire interior is ablaze. :(
    If Coventry could withstand incendiaries, there is a reasonable chance the walls might survive this.

    But if the interior is on fire...
    Much will probably depend on the type of stone, and the length of the fire it is subjected to. They also didn't rebuild Coventry; just because the walls are standing does not mean they're strong enough to support the hundreds of tonnes of structure that used to stand above them.

    I hope I'm being too pessimistic.

    If something good can come out of this, it may be that we start to appreciate the marvellous architecture that surrounds us, and that we often take too much for granted.

    Except Brutalist ...
    That wasn't the reason they didn't rebuild Coventry, though, so I don't think that's relevant. Some repairs and strengthening would have been needed, but a full restoration would have been a viable option. It was rejected because it was felt the ruin was a more fitting memorial to the Coventry Blitz.
    Fair enough about Coventry. I think the main point still stands.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 26,976
    isam said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    That the Tory party in 2016 didn’t just give the job to Boris with instructions to dole out £350m a week to the NHS has got to be one of the biggest rickets in party political history

    And then what?

    Boris' time as MoL does not bode well.
    The person who tipped the balance in the campaign would have had the chance to take responsibility instead of the neither here or there nonsense we’ve had since
    Again, I refer you to Boris' track record ...
    Who has a good comparable record? At least he’s won a couple of mayoralties and the referendum.

    As I say I can take him or leave him, but at least he has energy and ideas. And the 350m a week promise was a no brainer

    Lets be fair, you used to argue with me that UKIP should get rid of Farage if they wanted to prosper... hardly a great track record of predictions
    Why?
    Who could say it was a lie on the side of a bus if he did it?
    How are uncosted promises usually attacked in a general election?
This discussion has been closed.