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Most people would regard the Good Friday Agreement as a Very Good Thing. Certainly, it was so at the time and 21 years later, that broadly remains so. Despite the continuing background presence of dissident political violence – sadly this week coming into the foreground – the Agreement brought peace and an agreed political structure to the province.

Read the full story here

DecrepitJohnL

Even if Theresa May is forced out (or persuaded to resign) this summer, it is most unlikely she will be replaced by a hard Brexiteer, rather than some Johnny (or Jenny) come lately.

Fenman

Very good, David. Not sure I agree, but very good.

IanB2

Third, like Boris. If he is lucky.

swing_voter

a good piece, I agree that TM is unlikely to be replaced by a hard brexiteer - the Euro elections may well show the Tories that UKIP/BREXIT party turn voters off...too much is read into the 2014 UKIP vote, I just dont see it being copied. NF and Batten have a differnt message that will not carry. I dont see the Tories doing well but sense that they will avoid the shift to hard brexit, big business and the moderate voices within the Blues have prob realised that chasing the Ultra anti EU vote will hurt them in the cities, suburbs and farming shires

IanB2

An interesting, if not entirely convincing lead. Neither party is really prepared to face the implications of its changing support base for its approach, offer, and policies, and the Tories seem particularly unprepared. Not least because many of the leavers who tend to become Tory MPs are very different in motivation from most of the voters who are leavers. Peddling cultural war to working class voters won't be as easy here as it is in the US, without the religious dimension.

The assumption that the Tories will automatically be led by hard Leaver is open to challenge. Remember Corbyn got elected effectively by accident, a few MPs assuming he didn't stand a chance. Tory MPs will do what they can to ensure a similar accident doesn't put a bad choice before their members, even if constrained by the scarcity of apparent good choices. If they do end up with a hard Leaver it is hard to see a route to majority government (other than a complete fragmentation of the Remain vote coupled with an absence of tactical voting) so the Tories would be volunteering for a long spell in opposition. Which to be fair given Brexit may well be inevitable now anyway.

OldKingCole

An odd feature of recent British politics is that a previously obscure, 'not to everyone's taste' trader on the Metal Exchange has managed, in spite of never winning a Parliamentary seat, has become a significant figure in British politics.

IanB2

The other point worth making is that the right wing splinter parties do now present a potential threat to thr Tory vote in the way that many assumed would be the case with UKIP, but actually wasn't. Because both main parties were Remain/Leave coalitions and because UKIP hoovered up a lot of the NOTA vote including from former LibDems and non-voters, its rise and fall didn't affect the Tories to any significant extent.

But with the future Tory vote being a Leaver vote it is clear that the existence of stronger leave parties to their flank presents a severe risk under FPTnP. The Tories should count themselves lucky that UKIP has pretty much disappeared from local politics and that the Brexit party wasn't sufficiently established in time to be contesting a lot of council seats (is Farage interested in local politics, anyway? The existence of ukip councillors brought mostly embarrassment and grief).

Although plenty of Tories seem to be saying they will desert the party for the locals, in my experience Tories tend to be pretty reliable voters, and when they turn up to find the normal Con/Lab/LibDem choice on the ballot paper with no protest option, find it hard to believe many will look elsewhere.

JosiasJessop

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

Morris_Dancer

Good morning, everyone.

Interesting article.

MarqueeMark

IanB2 said:

Although plenty of Tories seem to be saying they will desert the party for the locals, in my experience Tories tend to be pretty reliable voters, and when they turn up to find the normal Con/Lab/LibDem choice on the ballot paper with no protest option, find it hard to believe many will look elsewhere.

Fair point - if they get off their arses this time. But I fully expect low turnout from Tories will cost them seats in the locals.

The more interesting question in the longer term is if we do somehow get a Brexit deal, yet the Brexit Party can whip up continuing interest in "not THAT Brexit deal". Quite a challenge even for Farage. Not sure how many will die in a ditch for him - and anyway, a new Tory PM could suggest they were prepared to revisit aspects of May's Shit Deal/Corbyn's Shit Deal with Added CU that prove unpopular.

IanB2

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

Although plenty of Tories seem to be saying they will desert the party for the locals, in my experience Tories tend to be pretty reliable voters, and when they turn up to find the normal Con/Lab/LibDem choice on the ballot paper with no protest option, find it hard to believe many will look elsewhere.

Fair point - if they get off their arses this time. But I fully expect low turnout from Tories will cost them seats in the locals.

The more interesting question in the longer term is if we do somehow get a Brexit deal, yet the Brexit Party can whip up continuing interest in "not THAT Brexit deal". Quite a challenge even for Farage. Not sure how many will die in a ditch for him - and anyway, a new Tory PM could suggest they were prepared to revisit aspects of May's Shit Deal/Corbyn's Shit Deal with Added CU that prove unpopular.

The Tories do face a threat, from disaffected remainers and floating voters not concerned about the EU but repelled by government chaos. But my thesis is that most Leaver Tories will turn up and most will vote Tory, in the absence of a UKIP/BXT choice. Enjoying blowing off on ConHome about a voter strike isn't the same as actually doing it.

Given that Labour appears determined to keep at least one cheek on the fence, i expect the LibDems may be in for a good round of local elections, for a change.

dyedwoolie

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

OldKingCole

IanB2 said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

Although plenty of Tories seem to be saying they will desert the party for the locals, in my experience Tories tend to be pretty reliable voters, and when they turn up to find the normal Con/Lab/LibDem choice on the ballot paper with no protest option, find it hard to believe many will look elsewhere.

Fair point - if they get off their arses this time. But I fully expect low turnout from Tories will cost them seats in the locals.

The more interesting question in the longer term is if we do somehow get a Brexit deal, yet the Brexit Party can whip up continuing interest in "not THAT Brexit deal". Quite a challenge even for Farage. Not sure how many will die in a ditch for him - and anyway, a new Tory PM could suggest they were prepared to revisit aspects of May's Shit Deal/Corbyn's Shit Deal with Added CU that prove unpopular.

The Tories do face a threat, from disaffected remainers and floating voters not concerned about the EU but repelled by government chaos. But my thesis is that most Leaver Tories will turn up and most will vote Tory, in the absence of a UKIP/BXT choice. Enjoying blowing off on ConHome about a voter strike isn't the same as actually doing it.

Given that Labour appears determined to keep at least one cheek on the fence, i expect the LibDems may be in for a good round of local elections, for a change.

A good round of local elections may give the LD's the publicity boost they need. As, to be honest, will the new leader. Cannot describe Vince as inspirational.

matt

OldKingCole said:

IanB2 said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

Although plenty of Tories seem to be saying they will desert the party for the locals, in my experience Tories tend to be pretty reliable voters, and when they turn up to find the normal Con/Lab/LibDem choice on the ballot paper with no protest option, find it hard to believe many will look elsewhere.

Fair point - if they get off their arses this time. But I fully expect low turnout from Tories will cost them seats in the locals.

The more interesting question in the longer term is if we do somehow get a Brexit deal, yet the Brexit Party can whip up continuing interest in "not THAT Brexit deal". Quite a challenge even for Farage. Not sure how many will die in a ditch for him - and anyway, a new Tory PM could suggest they were prepared to revisit aspects of May's Shit Deal/Corbyn's Shit Deal with Added CU that prove unpopular.

The Tories do face a threat, from disaffected remainers and floating voters not concerned about the EU but repelled by government chaos. But my thesis is that most Leaver Tories will turn up and most will vote Tory, in the absence of a UKIP/BXT choice. Enjoying blowing off on ConHome about a voter strike isn't the same as actually doing it.

Given that Labour appears determined to keep at least one cheek on the fence, i expect the LibDems may be in for a good round of local elections, for a change.

A good round of local elections may give the LD's the publicity boost they need. As, to be honest, will the new leader. Cannot describe Vince as inspirational.

What are their policies (other than opposing both Brexit and housing developments which is a touch intellectually inconsistent)?

MarqueeMark

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

Foxy

IanB2 said:

The other point worth making is that the right wing splinter parties do now present a potential threat to thr Tory vote in the way that many assumed would be the case with UKIP, but actually wasn't. Because both main parties were Remain/Leave coalitions and because UKIP hoovered up a lot of the NOTA vote including from former LibDems and non-voters, its rise and fall didn't affect the Tories to any significant extent.

But with the future Tory vote being a Leaver vote it is clear that the existence of stronger leave parties to their flank presents a severe risk under FPTnP. The Tories should count themselves lucky that UKIP has pretty much disappeared from local politics and that the Brexit party wasn't sufficiently established in time to be contesting a lot of council seats (is Farage interested in local politics, anyway? The existence of ukip councillors brought mostly embarrassment and grief).

Although plenty of Tories seem to be saying they will desert the party for the locals, in my experience Tories tend to be pretty reliable voters, and when they turn up to find the normal Con/Lab/LibDem choice on the ballot paper with no protest option, find it hard to believe many will look elsewhere.

I see that the Conservatives are going for the Remain vote:

https://twitter.com/TheNewEuropean/status/1119486781966245889?s=19

dyedwoolie

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

Well that combined with cheap supermarket booze and the smoking ban. It started with booze becoming available cheaply everywhere though, rather than in pubs or off licences only with properly regulated opening hours

Foxy

dyedwoolie said:

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

Well that combined with cheap supermarket booze and the smoking ban. It started with booze becoming available cheaply everywhere though, rather than in pubs or off licences only with properly regulated opening hours

True, but also the decline of pubs is part of the atomisation of social life. Why go down the pub to chat/pick up people that you don't know, when you can do it on your phone? Pubs were never just about having a beer, they were a community social environmennt. We have less interest in that now.

JosiasJessop

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

What is interesting, according to that link, is that pub revenues have remained the same, with the remaining pubs having more revenue (though I have no idea if that includes inflation).

If that's the case, then it's probably more to do with increased services (i.e. selling things other than booze), and a changing requirement in what we want from pubs.

dyedwoolie

Foxy said:

dyedwoolie said:

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

Well that combined with cheap supermarket booze and the smoking ban. It started with booze becoming available cheaply everywhere though, rather than in pubs or off licences only with properly regulated opening hours

True, but also the decline of pubs is part of the atomisation of social life. Why go down the pub to chat/pick up people that you don't know, when you can do it on your phone? Pubs were never just about having a beer, they were a community social environmennt. We have less interest in that now.

Also true yes. And one should not overlook the malignant cancer of the pubcos who are little more than pub killing cash sponges

JosiasJessop

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Another case where 'laid squarely' equates to 'the things I dislike'.

Yes, the things you mention would have been a factor. Much more IMO is the changing lifestyle of the young and the role of pubs: from the smoking ban, through TV footie, to the fact that many pubs concentrate on food over alcohol.

Pubs that have managed to evolve will continue to do well. Those that have not, will not.

dyedwoolie

JosiasJessop said:

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

What is interesting, according to that link, is that pub revenues have remained the same, with the remaining pubs having more revenue (though I have no idea if that includes inflation).

If that's the case, then it's probably more to do with increased services (i.e. selling things other than booze), and a changing requirement in what we want from pubs.

Turnover might be similar but profit isn't, the pubcos see to that. If you're going well then rent is way up next review and ad you have to buy your beer through them then they cash in anyway as you stock up at vastly inflated price compared to cash and carry/wholesale. Its a disgusting scam.

Jonathan

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

But which are full at 10am?

Morris_Dancer

Two arrests in connection with Lyra McKee's murder:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47996258

dyedwoolie

JosiasJessop said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Another case where 'laid squarely' equates to 'the things I dislike'.

Yes, the things you mention would have been a factor. Much more IMO is the changing lifestyle of the young and the role of pubs: from the smoking ban, through TV footie, to the fact that many pubs concentrate on food over alcohol.

Pubs that have managed to evolve will continue to do well. Those that have not, will not.

Well I'd suggest imo the development of lifestyle wrt pubs and the changing role is due to the changes I mentioned not in spite of.

Jonathan

Saw this, made me chuckle...

https://twitter.com/akhil_election/status/1119046924328419329?s=21

JosiasJessop

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

What is interesting, according to that link, is that pub revenues have remained the same, with the remaining pubs having more revenue (though I have no idea if that includes inflation).

If that's the case, then it's probably more to do with increased services (i.e. selling things other than booze), and a changing requirement in what we want from pubs.

Turnover might be similar but profit isn't, the pubcos see to that. If you're going well then rent is way up next review and ad you have to buy your beer through them then they cash in anyway as you stock up at vastly inflated price compared to cash and carry/wholesale. Its a disgusting scam.

I agree, but the problems (and opportunities) facing pubs are rather greater than the evil Pubcos.

A while back I want to a pub for a meal with a late-teens relative. His first question about the place was not : "What's the beer like?" or "What's the food like?" but:

"Do they have Wi-fi?"

(Although that might say more about me as a pub companion...)

JosiasJessop

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Another case where 'laid squarely' equates to 'the things I dislike'.

Yes, the things you mention would have been a factor. Much more IMO is the changing lifestyle of the young and the role of pubs: from the smoking ban, through TV footie, to the fact that many pubs concentrate on food over alcohol.

Pubs that have managed to evolve will continue to do well. Those that have not, will not.

Well I'd suggest imo the development of lifestyle wrt pubs and the changing role is due to the changes I mentioned not in spite of.

In part, but far from fully. Those changes were about 30 years ago, weren't they? Looking at all the societal changes since then, I find it hard to believe that the role of pubs wouldn't have changed. The smoking ban is just one example, as is the fact more of us like to eat out due to other lifestyle changes (e.g. more households where both adults work).

dyedwoolie

JosiasJessop said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

What is interesting, according to that link, is that pub revenues have remained the same, with the remaining pubs having more revenue (though I have no idea if that includes inflation).

If that's the case, then it's probably more to do with increased services (i.e. selling things other than booze), and a changing requirement in what we want from pubs.

Turnover might be similar but profit isn't, the pubcos see to that. If you're going well then rent is way up next review and ad you have to buy your beer through them then they cash in anyway as you stock up at vastly inflated price compared to cash and carry/wholesale. Its a disgusting scam.

I agree, but the problems (and opportunities) facing pubs are rather greater than the evil Pubcos.

A while back I want to a pub for a meal with a late-teens relative. His first question about the place was not : "What's the beer like?" or "What's the food like?" but:

"Do they have Wi-fi?"

(Although that might say more about me as a pub companion...)

Agreed. My point is, I guess, that the changes made in the late 80s and its development through the 90s laid the groundwork for the huge social shift wrt pubs since, say, the mid 2000s. Had the beer orders not happened, we would have a different base from which things would be shifting, and possibly different style outcomes.
Evil pubcos are utter c*nts though.

JosiasJessop

Jonathan said:

Saw this, made me chuckle...

https://twitter.com/akhil_election/status/1119046924328419329?s=21

Hmmm. There are three train-nerds on here: Sunil, Mr Rentool and myself (If I may place myself in their illustrious company). Only Mr Rentool is a die-hard lefty.

Therefore even if you must love trains to be a socialist, loving trains does not mean you are a socialist.

Just a nutter.

dyedwoolie

JosiasJessop said:

Jonathan said:

Saw this, made me chuckle...

https://twitter.com/akhil_election/status/1119046924328419329?s=21

Hmmm. There are three train-nerds on here: Sunil, Mr Rentool and myself (If I may place myself in their illustrious company). Only Mr Rentool is a die-hard lefty.

Therefore even if you must love trains to be a socialist, loving trains does not mean you are a socialist.

Just a nutter.

Count me in on train love

JosiasJessop

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

What is interesting, according to that link, is that pub revenues have remained the same, with the remaining pubs having more revenue (though I have no idea if that includes inflation).

If that's the case, then it's probably more to do with increased services (i.e. selling things other than booze), and a changing requirement in what we want from pubs.

Turnover might be similar but profit isn't, the pubcos see to that. If you're going well then rent is way up next review and ad you have to buy your beer through them then they cash in anyway as you stock up at vastly inflated price compared to cash and carry/wholesale. Its a disgusting scam.

I agree, but the problems (and opportunities) facing pubs are rather greater than the evil Pubcos.

A while back I want to a pub for a meal with a late-teens relative. His first question about the place was not : "What's the beer like?" or "What's the food like?" but:

"Do they have Wi-fi?"

(Although that might say more about me as a pub companion...)

Agreed. My point is, I guess, that the changes made in the late 80s and its development through the 90s laid the groundwork for the huge social shift wrt pubs since, say, the mid 2000s. Had the beer orders not happened, we would have a different base from which things would be shifting, and possibly different style outcomes.
Evil pubcos are utter c*nts though.

Agree with that. On the other hand, the 'different base' might conceivably have ended up with *more* closures, not fewer.

JosiasJessop

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Jonathan said:

Saw this, made me chuckle...

https://twitter.com/akhil_election/status/1119046924328419329?s=21

Hmmm. There are three train-nerds on here: Sunil, Mr Rentool and myself (If I may place myself in their illustrious company). Only Mr Rentool is a die-hard lefty.

Therefore even if you must love trains to be a socialist, loving trains does not mean you are a socialist.

Just a nutter.

Count me in on train love

I should qualify my position: I love all trains, except for the copper-topped pieces of shite that some people, for some unfathomable reason, appear to love ....

dyedwoolie

JosiasJessop said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

What is interesting, according to that link, is that pub revenues have remained the same, with the remaining pubs having more revenue (though I have no idea if that includes inflation).

If that's the case, then it's probably more to do with increased services (i.e. selling things other than booze), and a changing requirement in what we want from pubs.

Turnover might be similar but profit isn't, the pubcos see to that. If you're going well then rent is way up next review and ad you have to buy your beer through them then they cash in anyway as you stock up at vastly inflated price compared to cash and carry/wholesale. Its a disgusting scam.

I agree, but the problems (and opportunities) facing pubs are rather greater than the evil Pubcos.

A while back I want to a pub for a meal with a late-teens relative. His first question about the place was not : "What's the beer like?" or "What's the food like?" but:

"Do they have Wi-fi?"

(Although that might say more about me as a pub companion...)

Agreed. My point is, I guess, that the changes made in the late 80s and its development through the 90s laid the groundwork for the huge social shift wrt pubs since, say, the mid 2000s. Had the beer orders not happened, we would have a different base from which things would be shifting, and possibly different style outcomes.
Evil pubcos are utter c*nts though.

Agree with that. On the other hand, the 'different base' might conceivably have ended up with *more* closures, not fewer.

I guess so, yes. Personally I miss pubs shutting at 2.30pm and not opening again till 5.30 and the mad dash for last orders at 10.50.

Torby_Fennel

IanB2 said:

The Tories do face a threat, from disaffected remainers and floating voters not concerned about the EU but repelled by government chaos. But my thesis is that most Leaver Tories will turn up and most will vote Tory, in the absence of a UKIP/BXT choice. Enjoying blowing off on ConHome about a voter strike isn't the same as actually doing it.

Given that Labour appears determined to keep at least one cheek on the fence, i expect the LibDems may be in for a good round of local elections, for a change.

In my area we're finding our LibDem voters in our target wards are very enthused and we're picking up a few converts from the Conservatives. The Labour vote looks like it is largely holding up but is not as unenthused. We finding hardly anyone openly saying they are voting Conservative but quite a few grumpy people saying that they either not voting this time or, in extreme cases, never voting again due to feeling betrayed over the UK not having left the EU yet - and angry at lack of any UKIP candidates.

Big_G_NorthWales

https://twitter.com/akhil_election/status/1119046924328419329?s=21

Hmmm. There are three train-nerds on here: Sunil, Mr Rentool and myself (If I may place myself in their illustrious company). Only Mr Rentool is a die-hard lefty.

Therefore even if you must love trains to be a socialist, loving trains does not mean you are a socialist.

Just a nutter.

........................................................................................

I have been in love with trains, especially steam, since my early school days in the 1950s peering over the fence by our school in Berwick as the flying scotsman roared past on it's way to Kings Cross. On one occasion a local signalman summoned a couple of us into his box and allowed us to signal through the flying scotsman itself, a single act that will always be remembered with great pleasure

Of course, this was long before anything political and as I am not a socialist it proves the point, you do not have to be a socialist to love all things trains

Casino_Royale

JosiasJessop said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Jonathan said:

Saw this, made me chuckle...

https://twitter.com/akhil_election/status/1119046924328419329?s=21

Hmmm. There are three train-nerds on here: Sunil, Mr Rentool and myself (If I may place myself in their illustrious company). Only Mr Rentool is a die-hard lefty.

Therefore even if you must love trains to be a socialist, loving trains does not mean you are a socialist.

Just a nutter.

Count me in on train love

I should qualify my position: I love all trains, except for the copper-topped pieces of shite that some people, for some unfathomable reason, appear to love ....

I'm obsessed by railways.

And they don't come much more soundly right wing than me!

Casino_Royale

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

I don't like the closure of either.

The best pubs and churches put themselves at the heart of the community and have proactive engaged leaders.

NickPalmer

Interesting article as usual from David. It's clearly true up to a point, but there are still lots of voters - probably a majority - who don't think the EU is an interesting topic. They reluctantly accept that Brexit needs to be addressed (in some non-disastrous way), but they really want something else dealt with - schools, roads, taxes, health, whatever.

The perception (nourished by the media, who are only able to focus on one thing at a time) is that the parties are ignoring all this because they only care about Brexit. Both major parties produce policies on other things and Corbyn talks about them more than May - hence the incredulity when he spends a PMQs talking about buses or benefits - but everything sinks without trace after 24 hours, whether it's Javid on knives or Rayner on SATs.

That's different from Ulster, where my understanding is that the great majority really do see the sectarian division as an important matter and the first thing to consider when casting your vote.

IMO Labour is rather better-prepared for a post-Brexit era, as from Corbyn down most of the leading Labour people aren't that interested in Brexit either, and are bursting to talk about other things; the Tories, with a few exceptions (Gove and Javid and...er...), seem entirely obsessed with two things: Brexit, and party leadership.

Big_G_NorthWales

Good news this morning. Have lost 10kg in 5 weeks following my raised sugar levels. Have cut out bread, biscuits, chocolates, all fizzy drinks, stopped snacking and smaller portions

Feel much better and have no problem with eating fruit and veg instead.

isam

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1119320249734660098?s=21

Casino_Royale

dyedwoolie said:

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

Well that combined with cheap supermarket booze and the smoking ban. It started with booze becoming available cheaply everywhere though, rather than in pubs or off licences only with properly regulated opening hours

It's also much more pleasant to enjoy a drink in the comfort of your own home these days.

Pubs have been closing since the 1920s for that reason. Virtually every male used to go to one every evening back then.

Peter_the_Punter

Torby_Fennel said:

IanB2 said:

The Tories do face a threat, from disaffected remainers and floating voters not concerned about the EU but repelled by government chaos. But my thesis is that most Leaver Tories will turn up and most will vote Tory, in the absence of a UKIP/BXT choice. Enjoying blowing off on ConHome about a voter strike isn't the same as actually doing it.

Given that Labour appears determined to keep at least one cheek on the fence, i expect the LibDems may be in for a good round of local elections, for a change.

In my area we're finding our LibDem voters in our target wards are very enthused and we're picking up a few converts from the Conservatives. The Labour vote looks like it is largely holding up but is not as unenthused. We finding hardly anyone openly saying they are voting Conservative but quite a few grumpy people saying that they either not voting this time or, in extreme cases, never voting again due to feeling betrayed over the UK not having left the EU yet - and angry at lack of any UKIP candidates.

Your area being....?

isam

https://twitter.com/lordbuckethead/status/1119342376974110720?s=21

Morris_Dancer

Mr. NorthWales, congrats on the improved weight.

I wouldn't mind gaining a little. Not unhealthy, on a weight basis, though.

dyedwoolie

NickPalmer said:

Interesting article as usual from David. It's clearly true up to a point, but there are still lots of voters - probably a majority - who don't think the EU is an interesting topic. They reluctantly accept that Brexit needs to be addressed (in some non-disastrous way), but they really want something else dealt with - schools, roads, taxes, health, whatever.

The perception (nourished by the media, who are only able to focus on one thing at a time) is that the parties are ignoring all this because they only care about Brexit. Both major parties produce policies on other things and Corbyn talks about them more than May - hence the incredulity when he spends a PMQs talking about buses or benefits - but everything sinks without trace after 24 hours, whether it's Javid on knives or Rayner on SATs.

That's different from Ulster, where my understanding is that the great majority really do see the sectarian division as an important matter and the first thing to consider when casting your vote.

IMO Labour is rather better-prepared for a post-Brexit era, as from Corbyn down most of the leading Labour people aren't that interested in Brexit either, and are bursting to talk about other things; the Tories, with a few exceptions (Gove and Javid and...er...), seem entirely obsessed with two things: Brexit, and party leadership.

Tories are probably reasonably geared for a post Brexit no deal world but any Brexit with deal and they will have the ERG nutters diverting them at all turns. As for leadership, it'll be done in 2 months max once shes gone, more like 6 weeks

Big_G_NorthWales

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. NorthWales, congrats on the improved weight.

I wouldn't mind gaining a little. Not unhealthy, on a weight basis, though.

I have come down from 18.5 stone to just under 17 with 16 my target. I was last at 16 when I was in my 30s, 45 years ago

CarlottaVance

Looks like the assassins may have been shopped:

https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1119508734923952128?s=21

Morris_Dancer

Mr. NorthWales, I'm still under 9st

The reason I eat cake is medicinal. And also so I don't get so thin I need to buy new trousers.

RoyalBlue

I think the header is broadly correct. The Tory Party is in dire straits because a number of its MPs (notably Dominic Grieve) failed to understand that having offered Brexit in a referendum, the party is expected to deliver it by the vast majority of its supporters. Failure to do so will be catastrophic, even with Marxists in charge of Labour. It is the meaningful vote amendment which has facilitated the current paralysis; without that, the stupidity of the ERG wouldn’t matter.

The best way to de-Ulsterise British politics would be May’s deal with a softish final outcome, but just like in Ulster, politicians are not prepared to compromise.

isam

Casino_Royale said:

dyedwoolie said:

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

Well that combined with cheap supermarket booze and the smoking ban. It started with booze becoming available cheaply everywhere though, rather than in pubs or off licences only with properly regulated opening hours

It's also much more pleasant to enjoy a drink in the comfort of your own home these days.

Pubs have been closing since the 1920s for that reason. Virtually every male used to go to one every evening back then.

Or on a train at 1pm

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8901060/labour-diane-abbott-drinking-on-train-illegal/

I wonder if this is the real reason for all those ‘mistakes’ and her being pulled from all media before the last GE

HYUFD

Full list of Tory candidates for each region in the European elections

https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2019/04/exclusive-the-full-list-of-conservative-mep-candidates.html

isam

isam said:

Casino_Royale said:

dyedwoolie said:

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

Well that combined with cheap supermarket booze and the smoking ban. It started with booze becoming available cheaply everywhere though, rather than in pubs or off licences only with properly regulated opening hours

It's also much more pleasant to enjoy a drink in the comfort of your own home these days.

Pubs have been closing since the 1920s for that reason. Virtually every male used to go to one every evening back then.

Or on a train at 1pm

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8901060/labour-diane-abbott-drinking-on-train-illegal/

I wonder if this is the real reason for all those ‘mistakes’ and her being pulled from all media before the last GE

But it doesn’t seem to matter

https://twitter.com/davidlammy/status/1119453926863011840?s=21

rottenborough

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good news this morning. Have lost 10kg in 5 weeks following my raised sugar levels. Have cut out bread, biscuits, chocolates, all fizzy drinks, stopped snacking and smaller portions

Feel much better and have no problem with eating fruit and veg instead.

Excellent news Big_G. Well done. Been down the same road myself with blood sugar.

prh47bridge

Casino_Royale said:

JosiasJessop said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Jonathan said:

Saw this, made me chuckle...

https://twitter.com/akhil_election/status/1119046924328419329?s=21

Hmmm. There are three train-nerds on here: Sunil, Mr Rentool and myself (If I may place myself in their illustrious company). Only Mr Rentool is a die-hard lefty.

Therefore even if you must love trains to be a socialist, loving trains does not mean you are a socialist.

Just a nutter.

Count me in on train love

I should qualify my position: I love all trains, except for the copper-topped pieces of shite that some people, for some unfathomable reason, appear to love ....

I'm obsessed by railways.

And they don't come much more soundly right wing than me!

As I used to be a volunteer driver on the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railways, I definitely count as someone obsessed by railways. It hasn't made me a socialist.

dyedwoolie

isam said:

isam said:

Casino_Royale said:

dyedwoolie said:

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

Well that combined with cheap supermarket booze and the smoking ban. It started with booze becoming available cheaply everywhere though, rather than in pubs or off licences only with properly regulated opening hours

It's also much more pleasant to enjoy a drink in the comfort of your own home these days.

Pubs have been closing since the 1920s for that reason. Virtually every male used to go to one every evening back then.

Or on a train at 1pm

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8901060/labour-diane-abbott-drinking-on-train-illegal/

I wonder if this is the real reason for all those ‘mistakes’ and her being pulled from all media before the last GE

But it doesn’t seem to matter

https://twitter.com/davidlammy/status/1119453926863011840?s=21

Breaking the law is fine if youre shadow home sec, lammy says so and hes hella wise

RoyalBlue

isam said:

Casino_Royale said:

dyedwoolie said:

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

Well that combined with cheap supermarket booze and the smoking ban. It started with booze becoming available cheaply everywhere though, rather than in pubs or off licences only with properly regulated opening hours

It's also much more pleasant to enjoy a drink in the comfort of your own home these days.

Pubs have been closing since the 1920s for that reason. Virtually every male used to go to one every evening back then.

Or on a train at 1pm

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8901060/labour-diane-abbott-drinking-on-train-illegal/

I wonder if this is the real reason for all those ‘mistakes’ and her being pulled from all media before the last GE

I think it’s absurd that Diane Abbott has had to apologise for this, and I am absolutely not a fan. Problems caused by drunks on public transport are almost always caused by drinking before they get on the bus/train/tube, not during the journey.

The TfL ban is illiberal nonsense, and let’s not forget it was the ‘liberal’ Boris Johnson who introduced it.

CarlottaVance

isam said:

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1119320249734660098?s=21

the answer appears to be that flying first class on BA gives you a [carbon] footprint around 5.5 times larger than that of an economy passenger, with a business seat clocking in at 3.5 times the economy option.

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2010/feb/17/business-class-carbon-footprint

Big_G_NorthWales

rottenborough said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good news this morning. Have lost 10kg in 5 weeks following my raised sugar levels. Have cut out bread, biscuits, chocolates, all fizzy drinks, stopped snacking and smaller portions

Feel much better and have no problem with eating fruit and veg instead.

Excellent news Big_G. Well done. Been down the same road myself with blood sugar.

Thank you. I have been surprised how relatively easy it has been but as my wife says I stopped smoking altogether one day 15 years ago and that was pergatory but now I cannot stand the smell of cigarettes

HYUFD

At the moment ironically May and Corbyn are preventing British politics dividing totally on Leave v Remain lines as Northern Ireland is divided on Unionist v Nationalist lines. On Brexit at least May and Corbyn are not that far apart, both support leaving the EU with the backstop and staying in some form of Customs Union with the EU, the only difference for the moment being if that is temporary or permanent though even May might concede on that. It is the Brexit Party and UKIP and CUK and the LDs representing the Brexit extremes.

If and when May and Corbyn goes though there is a strong possibility Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer will succeed them and will push hard Brexit and revoke Brexit/EUref2 respectively

Morris_Dancer

Mr. NorthWales, are you exercising as well, or did you just change/reduce your diet?

Big_G_NorthWales

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. NorthWales, are you exercising as well, or did you just change/reduce your diet?

Due to my arthritis I am not able to exercise to a great extent but since losing the 10kg I am feeling much fitter and am gardening and doing DIY again. The initial weight loss was done through changed diet but as the weight falls off other benefits become very apparent

Morris_Dancer

Mr. NorthWales, ah, sorry to hear about the arthritis (my mother has it, though not too severely).

Garden's amongst the most relaxing hobbies you can have. 'tis good for one's mental state. And, of course, you can grow your own herbs, vegetables, etc, if so inclined.

HYUFD

IanB2 said:

An interesting, if not entirely convincing lead. Neither party is really prepared to face the implications of its changing support base for its approach, offer, and policies, and the Tories seem particularly unprepared. Not least because many of the leavers who tend to become Tory MPs are very different in motivation from most of the voters who are leavers. Peddling cultural war to working class voters won't be as easy here as it is in the US, without the religious dimension.

The assumption that the Tories will automatically be led by hard Leaver is open to challenge. Remember Corbyn got elected effectively by accident, a few MPs assuming he didn't stand a chance. Tory MPs will do what they can to ensure a similar accident doesn't put a bad choice before their members, even if constrained by the scarcity of apparent good choices. If they do end up with a hard Leaver it is hard to see a route to majority government (other than a complete fragmentation of the Remain vote coupled with an absence of tactical voting) so the Tories would be volunteering for a long spell in opposition. Which to be fair given Brexit may well be inevitable now anyway.

If the Tories do not end up with a hard Leaver on current polls and if we are still in the EU by the next general election the danger is the Tories get overtaken by the Brexit Party and are not even the main opposition let alone not even a majority Government. Your comments show a complete lack of awareness on the left and the Remainer liberal left especially about how failing to deliver Brexit will damage the Tories and boost the hard and far right (similar ironically to how many Tories failed to appreciate the dangers of the rise of Corbyn).

It may take a Brexit Party victory in the European elections as Yougov suggests to finally wake you up

noneoftheabove

Isn't it time for the major GB parties to start standing in Northern Ireland? Even if they do badly initially it would help NI on its journey to reconciliation instead of division by accidents of birth. I am surprised this is so rarely discussed, I think a party aiming for national government should stand across the nation.

dyedwoolie

noneoftheabove said:

Isn't it time for the major GB parties to start standing in Northern Ireland? Even if they do badly initially it would help NI on its journey to reconciliation instead of division by accidents of birth. I am surprised this is so rarely discussed, I think a party aiming for national government should stand across the nation.

The Tories do. They get between 2 and 5% usually

isam

RoyalBlue said:

isam said:

Casino_Royale said:

dyedwoolie said:

MarqueeMark said:

dyedwoolie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

The decline of the pub can be laid squarely at the door of capitalism/choice and the beer orders of the late 80s. Nowadays when pubs in suburban or rural areas shut the loudest squealing is usually from ifiots who think they are entitled to their one visit a year on Christmas lunchtime.

Acceptance that it was socially unacceptable to drink and drive killed those suburban or rural pubs that couldn't then offer fine food.

Well that combined with cheap supermarket booze and the smoking ban. It started with booze becoming available cheaply everywhere though, rather than in pubs or off licences only with properly regulated opening hours

It's also much more pleasant to enjoy a drink in the comfort of your own home these days.

Pubs have been closing since the 1920s for that reason. Virtually every male used to go to one every evening back then.

Or on a train at 1pm

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8901060/labour-diane-abbott-drinking-on-train-illegal/

I wonder if this is the real reason for all those ‘mistakes’ and her being pulled from all media before the last GE

I think it’s absurd that Diane Abbott has had to apologise for this, and I am absolutely not a fan. Problems caused by drunks on public transport are almost always caused by drinking before they get on the bus/train/tube, not during the journey.

The TfL ban is illiberal nonsense, and let’s not forget it was the ‘liberal’ Boris Johnson who introduced it.

To be fair I agree. I often have a tinnie on the train if I am going up London for a night out, and on many other trains they serve alcohol. It just seems a bit weird for the Shadow Home Sec to be drinking from a can when it is forbidden when she could have just gone to the pub first, and I reckon it also explains a lot of her odd behaviour/illnesses.

Big_G_NorthWales

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. NorthWales, ah, sorry to hear about the arthritis (my mother has it, though not too severely).

Garden's amongst the most relaxing hobbies you can have. 'tis good for one's mental state. And, of course, you can grow your own herbs, vegetables, etc, if so inclined.

Yes and my wife loves gardening and it keeps us active

Torby_Fennel

Peter_the_Punter said:

Torby_Fennel said:

IanB2 said:

The Tories do face a threat, from disaffected remainers and floating voters not concerned about the EU but repelled by government chaos. But my thesis is that most Leaver Tories will turn up and most will vote Tory, in the absence of a UKIP/BXT choice. Enjoying blowing off on ConHome about a voter strike isn't the same as actually doing it.

Given that Labour appears determined to keep at least one cheek on the fence, i expect the LibDems may be in for a good round of local elections, for a change.

In my area we're finding our LibDem voters in our target wards are very enthused and we're picking up a few converts from the Conservatives. The Labour vote looks like it is largely holding up but is not as unenthused. We finding hardly anyone openly saying they are voting Conservative but quite a few grumpy people saying that they either not voting this time or, in extreme cases, never voting again due to feeling betrayed over the UK not having left the EU yet - and angry at lack of any UKIP candidates.

Your area being....?

City of Lincoln.

Jonathan

If our politics is like Ulster, who is going to play a healing role before we descend further into hell?

Gardenwalker

Big_G_NorthWales said:

rottenborough said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good news this morning. Have lost 10kg in 5 weeks following my raised sugar levels. Have cut out bread, biscuits, chocolates, all fizzy drinks, stopped snacking and smaller portions

Feel much better and have no problem with eating fruit and veg instead.

Excellent news Big_G. Well done. Been down the same road myself with blood sugar.

Thank you. I have been surprised how relatively easy it has been but as my wife says I stopped smoking altogether one day 15 years ago and that was pergatory but now I cannot stand the smell of cigarettes

Congrats Mr G!
I am always inspired by such stories.
10kg in 5 weeks is significant, and implies major calorie reduction, did you do the “Blood Sugar Diet”?

kinabalu

Interesting piece with which I broadly agree. So the next general election, assuming that it comes before Brexit, could well be CON/LEAVE vs LAB/REMAIN and there's your 2nd referendum. Labour's offering in these circumstances will need to be carefully worded and explained. Vote for socialism and at the same time for EU membership which prevents socialism.

geoffw

Page renewals in politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com go on endlessly with "read platform.twitter.com" unless I intervene to "stop reloading this page" or Esc. Is there any way to prevent this?

....

I note that Patrick Minford recommends brexiters to move away from the "lawyer view" and "get the WAPD in some form – it does not much matter what form – over the line, so that Brexit definitely happens as demanded in the referendum."
Hopefully they're paying attention.

rottenborough

geoffw said:

Page renewals in politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com go on endlessly with "read platform.twitter.com" unless I intervene to "stop reloading this page" or Esc. Is there any way to prevent this?

....

I note that Patrick Minford recommends brexiters to move away from the "lawyer view" and "get the WAPD in some form – it does not much matter what form – over the line, so that Brexit definitely happens as demanded in the referendum."
Hopefully they're paying attention.

I doubt it. They don't really want Brexit to happen, deep down.

HYUFD

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

"There are now more churches in the UK than pubs"

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/04/15/there-are-now-more-churches-in-the-uk-than-pubs/

While both rural pubs and churches are in decline the black population in London especially is helping to grow new churches, beyond the gastro pub though there is little similar growth in pubs

NickPalmer

Torby_Fennel said:

IanB2 said:

The Tories do face a threat, from disaffected remainers and floating voters not concerned about the EU but repelled by government chaos. But my thesis is that most Leaver Tories will turn up and most will vote Tory, in the absence of a UKIP/BXT choice. Enjoying blowing off on ConHome about a voter strike isn't the same as actually doing it.

Given that Labour appears determined to keep at least one cheek on the fence, i expect the LibDems may be in for a good round of local elections, for a change.

In my area we're finding our LibDem voters in our target wards are very enthused and we're picking up a few converts from the Conservatives. The Labour vote looks like it is largely holding up but is not as unenthused. We finding hardly anyone openly saying they are voting Conservative but quite a few grumpy people saying that they either not voting this time or, in extreme cases, never voting again due to feeling betrayed over the UK not having left the EU yet - and angry at lack of any UKIP candidates.

Exactly my impression from a different party in what I assume is a different area (although there are still a fair number of loyal Tories here in Surrey).

AlastairMeeks

A good example of this phenomenon is the outrage that greeted the reselection of a sitting Conservative MEP who supported Remain:

https://twitter.com/montie/status/1118462567121399813?s=21

Leavers are looking to conduct a purge of anyone in the party who disagrees with them over Brexit.

Jonathan

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. NorthWales, are you exercising as well, or did you just change/reduce your diet?

Due to my arthritis I am not able to exercise to a great extent but since losing the 10kg I am feeling much fitter and am gardening and doing DIY again. The initial weight loss was done through changed diet but as the weight falls off other benefits become very apparent

Well done.

Supporting May through Brexit must have lost a few kilos.

isam

AlastairMeeks said:

A good example of this phenomenon is the outrage that greeted the reselection of a sitting Conservative MEP who supported Remain:

https://twitter.com/montie/status/1118462567121399813?s=21

Leavers are looking to conduct a purge of anyone in the party who disagrees with them over Brexit.

Another example being Lord Adonis

https://twitter.com/lordashcroft/status/1119252586475999233?s=21

Big_G_NorthWales

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

rottenborough said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good news this morning. Have lost 10kg in 5 weeks following my raised sugar levels. Have cut out bread, biscuits, chocolates, all fizzy drinks, stopped snacking and smaller portions

Feel much better and have no problem with eating fruit and veg instead.

Excellent news Big_G. Well done. Been down the same road myself with blood sugar.

Thank you. I have been surprised how relatively easy it has been but as my wife says I stopped smoking altogether one day 15 years ago and that was pergatory but now I cannot stand the smell of cigarettes

Congrats Mr G!
I am always inspired by such stories.
10kg in 5 weeks is significant, and implies major calorie reduction, did you do the “Blood Sugar Diet”?

Thank you. My diet cut out bread, cakes, biscuits, chocolate, all fizzy drinks and included reduced portions. No snacking and just tea, coffee and water to drink, though I have had a couple of glasses of red wine. I am fortunate I like all fruits and vegetables and it has not been too difficult. Certainly my diabetes sugar levels were rising and the additional weight brings other problems with blood pressure, my copd , and arthritis so losing weight was no longer optional but the difference in my health in just 5 weeks is amazing with further to go, but of course this is now a permanent change to my diet as going back to my old ways would be very unwise

AlastairMeeks

isam said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A good example of this phenomenon is the outrage that greeted the reselection of a sitting Conservative MEP who supported Remain:

https://twitter.com/montie/status/1118462567121399813?s=21

Leavers are looking to conduct a purge of anyone in the party who disagrees with them over Brexit.

Another example being Lord Adonis

https://twitter.com/lordashcroft/status/1119252586475999233?s=21

I think that’s a really interesting move by Labour. He does not remotely represent the leadership’s views but they have decided to present that Remain-friendly image, presumably because they think it is advantageous to do so.

I think they may need to hitch their skirts a bit higher to get the attention of doubtful Remainers now.

tlg86

AlastairMeeks said:

A good example of this phenomenon is the outrage that greeted the reselection of a sitting Conservative MEP who supported Remain:

https://twitter.com/montie/status/1118462567121399813?s=21

Leavers are looking to conduct a purge of anyone in the party who disagrees with them over Brexit.

Do you not think that at some point both the Tories and Labour will have to pick a side? It probably won't make much difference, but putting a Remainer at the top of the Tory list in the NW is a gift to the Brexit Party up there.

OblitusSumMe

Brexit consumes all political discourse, but I don't think it will have the partisan implications that David Herdson expects. Instead I think it is another manifestation of another change: from a politics divided primarily by class to one divided primarily by age.

This change predated Brexit, is seen with Brexit, and will outlive Brexit.

Big_G_NorthWales

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. NorthWales, are you exercising as well, or did you just change/reduce your diet?

Due to my arthritis I am not able to exercise to a great extent but since losing the 10kg I am feeling much fitter and am gardening and doing DIY again. The initial weight loss was done through changed diet but as the weight falls off other benefits become very apparent

Well done.

Supporting May through Brexit must have lost a few kilos.

Not really. It required comfort eating on a grand scale. However, I am now at the point that whatever happens happens even if TM goes and Boris arrives but that is not my preferred route. Pass WDA or remain for me

RoyalBlue

AlastairMeeks said:

A good example of this phenomenon is the outrage that greeted the reselection of a sitting Conservative MEP who supported Remain:

https://twitter.com/montie/status/1118462567121399813?s=21

Leavers are looking to conduct a purge of anyone in the party who disagrees with them over Brexit.

We are not looking to purge the party of Remainers. We would simply like candidates that respect the result of the referendum, whatever their prior stance, and that will work towards delivering it rather than obstructing it or countermanding it through a second referendum.

The man you have quoted wants a second referendum, directly contrary to the verdict of the electorate and our manifesto. On what basis should he be a Conservative candidate?

Theuniondivvie

Morris_Dancer said:

Two arrests in connection with Lyra McKee's murder:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47996258

Extremely moving interview on R4 Today with the priest who gave Lyra McKee the last rites. Some righteous anger there as well as grief.

AlastairMeeks

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A good example of this phenomenon is the outrage that greeted the reselection of a sitting Conservative MEP who supported Remain:

https://twitter.com/montie/status/1118462567121399813?s=21

Leavers are looking to conduct a purge of anyone in the party who disagrees with them over Brexit.

Do you not think that at some point both the Tories and Labour will have to pick a side? It probably won't make much difference, but putting a Remainer at the top of the Tory list in the NW is a gift to the Brexit Party up there.

I agree with David completely, at least so far as the Conservatives are concerned. It will be wholly to their detriment to signal to anyone who believes in closer ties with the EU that they are second class citizens and their votes are not sought, and to the business world that they are no longer the party of business. But the viral infection has now progressed too far to be cured.

AlastairMeeks

RoyalBlue said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A good example of this phenomenon is the outrage that greeted the reselection of a sitting Conservative MEP who supported Remain:

https://twitter.com/montie/status/1118462567121399813?s=21

Leavers are looking to conduct a purge of anyone in the party who disagrees with them over Brexit.

We are not looking to purge the party of Remainers. We would simply like candidates that respect the result of the referendum, whatever their prior stance, and that will work towards delivering it rather than obstructing it or countermanding it through a second referendum.

The man you have quoted wants a second referendum, directly contrary to the verdict of the electorate and our manifesto. On what basis should he be a Conservative candidate?

Is that the Conservatives’ only policy?

(Answer, yes it is now.)

RoyalBlue

AlastairMeeks said:

RoyalBlue said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A good example of this phenomenon is the outrage that greeted the reselection of a sitting Conservative MEP who supported Remain:

https://twitter.com/montie/status/1118462567121399813?s=21

Leavers are looking to conduct a purge of anyone in the party who disagrees with them over Brexit.

We are not looking to purge the party of Remainers. We would simply like candidates that respect the result of the referendum, whatever their prior stance, and that will work towards delivering it rather than obstructing it or countermanding it through a second referendum.

The man you have quoted wants a second referendum, directly contrary to the verdict of the electorate and our manifesto. On what basis should he be a Conservative candidate?

Is that the Conservatives’ only policy?

(Answer, yes it is now.)

Clearly not, but you know perfectly well that it’s facile to compare the importance of resetting British foreign/European policy for the last 60 years with the frequency of bin collections or what prescription charges should be.

kle4

tlg86 said:

williamglenn said:

Mary Beard seems to have really wound up the Brexiteers.

https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1119349139731570688?s=21

The interesting thing about this, is that I think it's back to front. For the most part, I think Brexiteers are more concerned with what we do with our own country. It's Remainers who are more concerned with our status on the world stage.

Certainly we hear a lot more about people thinking it's the days of empire from remainers than leavers. Such leavers exist, certainly, but for the most part it's a misleading and very lazy crutch of some remainers, who should know better, in assuming leavers are all obsessed with the idea were a superpower. Were not. Were a decently sized power and that's ok. It isn't a choice between superpower and nothing, most leavers wont be surprised about that.

kle4

I hadn't thought of it as ulsterisation , but that's worrying

AlastairMeeks

RoyalBlue said:

AlastairMeeks said:

RoyalBlue said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A good example of this phenomenon is the outrage that greeted the reselection of a sitting Conservative MEP who supported Remain:

https://twitter.com/montie/status/1118462567121399813?s=21

Leavers are looking to conduct a purge of anyone in the party who disagrees with them over Brexit.

We are not looking to purge the party of Remainers. We would simply like candidates that respect the result of the referendum, whatever their prior stance, and that will work towards delivering it rather than obstructing it or countermanding it through a second referendum.

The man you have quoted wants a second referendum, directly contrary to the verdict of the electorate and our manifesto. On what basis should he be a Conservative candidate?

Is that the Conservatives’ only policy?

(Answer, yes it is now.)

Clearly not, but you know perfectly well that it’s facile to compare the importance of resetting British foreign/European policy for the last 60 years with the frequency of bin collections or what prescription charges should be.

As always, one can discard everything before the but. The only thing Conservatives care about now is Brexit. Unbelievers are to be shunned.

kle4

AlastairMeeks said:

isam said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A good example of this phenomenon is the outrage that greeted the reselection of a sitting Conservative MEP who supported Remain:

https://twitter.com/montie/status/1118462567121399813?s=21

Leavers are looking to conduct a purge of anyone in the party who disagrees with them over Brexit.

Another example being Lord Adonis

https://twitter.com/lordashcroft/status/1119252586475999233?s=21

I think that’s a really interesting move by Labour. He does not remotely represent the leadership’s views but they have decided to present that Remain-friendly image, presumably because they think it is advantageous to do so.

I think they may need to hitch their skirts a bit higher to get the attention of doubtful Remainers now.

The tip toeing to full blooded remain is almost complete. I doubt it'll officially go as far as Adonis since as you suggest its about what they consider advantageous, and that would be too much, but they're close, reliant on Corbyn's supposed reluctance to mollify others.

JosiasJessop

RoyalBlue said:

AlastairMeeks said:

RoyalBlue said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A good example of this phenomenon is the outrage that greeted the reselection of a sitting Conservative MEP who supported Remain:

https://twitter.com/montie/status/1118462567121399813?s=21

Leavers are looking to conduct a purge of anyone in the party who disagrees with them over Brexit.

We are not looking to purge the party of Remainers. We would simply like candidates that respect the result of the referendum, whatever their prior stance, and that will work towards delivering it rather than obstructing it or countermanding it through a second referendum.

The man you have quoted wants a second referendum, directly contrary to the verdict of the electorate and our manifesto. On what basis should he be a Conservative candidate?

Is that the Conservatives’ only policy?

(Answer, yes it is now.)

Clearly not, but you know perfectly well that it’s facile to compare the importance of resetting British foreign/European policy for the last 60 years with the frequency of bin collections or what prescription charges should be.

I'm not within the Conservative Party, but from outside it appears that there are zero policies. everything has been subsumed by Brexit.

This is not good government, considering that the Brexit mess is a Conservative-led and Conservative-caused mess.

The only good thing for the Conservatives out of this is that whilst they're navel-gazing about Brexit, the country is just getting on and running itself. Perhaps that 's a good indication that less government might work ....

OblitusSumMe

isam said:

https://twitter.com/lordbuckethead/status/1119342376974110720?s=21

The anti-Farage/Brexit vote will be split so many ways we're at risk of losing count. I think there's another novelty anti-Brexit candidate standing and being enthusiastically supported by people on Facebook who don't understand the D'Hondt implications.

The Remain side are going to be bleating so hard about how unfair PR is when they look at the vote totals and seat totals after this election.

another_richard

' The Lib Dems are even further out of the game – when did anyone last hear from any of them on or in the media? '

From the LibDems leader:

' Humiliation for Lib Dems as Vince Cable’s claims that Brexit has led to strawberry shortage is revealed as ‘fake news’ '

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3948109/humiliation-for-lib-dems-as-their-claim-of-a-brexit-strawberry-shortage-is-branded-fake-news/

From LibDem MPs:

' Liberal Democrat leader hopeful Layla Moran has admitted she was arrested and detained by police slapping her ex-boyfriend. '

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/24/lib-dem-leadership-hopeful-layla-moran-admits-slapping-boyfriend/

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Me, quite. It's a bit like, writ small, when seventeen odd parties and individuals stood against Blair. Any win against him was unlikely anyway, but dividing the opposition so much made it practically impossible.

isam

AlastairMeeks said:

isam said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A good example of this phenomenon is the outrage that greeted the reselection of a sitting Conservative MEP who supported Remain:

https://twitter.com/montie/status/1118462567121399813?s=21

Leavers are looking to conduct a purge of anyone in the party who disagrees with them over Brexit.

Another example being Lord Adonis

https://twitter.com/lordashcroft/status/1119252586475999233?s=21

I think that’s a really interesting move by Labour. He does not remotely represent the leadership’s views but they have decided to present that Remain-friendly image, presumably because they think it is advantageous to do so.

I think they may need to hitch their skirts a bit higher to get the attention of doubtful Remainers now.

He’s just trying to take the opposite approach to the broad church of Farage who welcomes Remain voters to the Brexit Party

SquareRoot

Homeless voter.. that's me. there is no one I can vote for.. only against

Dura_Ace

noneoftheabove said:

Isn't it time for the major GB parties to start standing in Northern Ireland? Even if they do badly initially it would help NI on its journey to reconciliation instead of division by accidents of birth. I am surprised this is so rarely discussed, I think a party aiming for national government should stand across the nation.

There's no point because Ireland is going to be free in a decade or two.