it would have been counter productive for a remain alliance to stand in Peterborough as it would have greatly increased the chances of the Brexit Party getting a real breakthrough. Hence why the remain candidate pulled out probably.
You would have to see this as good news for Labour. With The Faragistas unabashedly pitching for Tory votes and the threat from a United Remain front gone, they have to be hot favourites to hold the seat.
If Labour's dismal performance last Thursday wasn't due to Brexit, and they were unable to exploit for electoral advantage a government in this much chaos - doesn't that suggest matters are far worse for them than we thought? I mean, Brexit will be over one way or another in a few months. But if they have then nothing to talk about - oh dear oh dear.
If Labour lose Peterborough - to anybody - then Corbyn has to go, somehow. Even if the only way of doing it is for every member of the PLP with an IQ of above 5 (other than Macdonnell) to defect to the Liberal Democrats.
> I’m in a bit of a dilemma. The top 2 Tories in the SE are Dan Hannan (whom I can’t abide) and Nirj Diva (whom I can’t take seriously). I will never vote for another party so the choices are not bothering at all, spoiling the ballot, or tightly holding the nose and put the X in the usual place.
The usual place for the Conservatives (based on 2014) is third on the list, so you can put your X in the usual place and register a vote for the Greens with a clear conscience.
Nice one but I’d rather shack up with Nancy Mogg (ooh, er missus) than harbour even the most evanescent thought of ever voting for that obscurantist authoritarian mob. I’m at one with Mr Smithson snr on that.
> @Alanbrooke said: > > @williamglenn said: > > > @Alanbrooke said: > > > France heading for a referendum on Macrons plan to privatise Aeroports de Paris > > > > > > > Tell Sid. > > I suspect Sid currently works at Orly and wears a yellow vest at weekends
Nah, Sid sold his shares the day British Gas was privatised and put the proceeds towards a holiday in 1987 in the Algarve instead of the usual Torremolinos. He retired to Southend in 2002 and is now in a care home.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @ralphmalph said: > > Sky reporting no CHUK-TIG candidate for Peterborough, > > > > They could not even find an old retread to stand for them, oh dear. > > Yes but it helps to consolidate the anti Farage vote
I think that summarises Change's problem; we all know what they're against but not what they stand in favour of.
> @SandyRentool said: > I'm confused. Is it no "Change UK" candidate, or is it "No-Change UK" candidate? > > They should just pull out of the Euros too. A one-trick pony without the trick.
> @JohnO said: > Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets. > > > > We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative. > > > > My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain > > I’m in a bit of a dilemma. The top 2 Tories in the SE are Dan Hannan (whom I can’t abide) and Nirj Diva (whom I can’t take seriously). I will never vote for another party so the choices are not bothering at all, spoiling the ballot, or tightly holding the nose and put the X in the usual place.
It’s a difficult one. In these circumstances, it’s necessary to reduce it to the simplest question, who do you want to be your MEP. If you dislike Hannan don’t vote for him, there will be plenty of other opportunities to vote Tory.
> @TudorRose said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @ralphmalph said: > > > Sky reporting no CHUK-TIG candidate for Peterborough, > > > > > > They could not even find an old retread to stand for them, oh dear. > > > > Yes but it helps to consolidate the anti Farage vote > > I think that summarises Change's problem; we all know what they're against but not what they stand in favour of.
> @ExiledInScotland said: > > @Alanbrooke said: > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > @Alanbrooke said: > > > > France heading for a referendum on Macrons plan to privatise Aeroports de Paris > > > > > > > > > > Tell Sid. > > > > I suspect Sid currently works at Orly and wears a yellow vest at weekends > > He'll be Monsieur Sid Bertillon, who followed his Grandpa Jean and Dad Philippe into a job there. His uncle Alain is a policeman in the CRS and his aunt Marie-Claude is a teacher and local councillor for the Rassemblement National.
> @isam said: > > @TGOHF said: > > > Joke party > > > > > > https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1126521821959004162 > > > > > > That really is pathetic. I wonder if those who signed up fully appreciated that they were time limiting their political careers to the end of this Parliament. > > What an exciting, radical bunch they are! Breath of fresh air compared to the ‘old politics’ of standing for election
The CUKs have decided it'd be much more exciting to stand by the side and watch their voters vote for somebody else
Chances are (of course) that I will turn up and will vote Tory. But I have pretty well reached the stage of not caring: Theresa May’s utterly useless and clueless incompetence has sucked the lifeblood from the party and this 45 plus years activist. I just want her gone. If that means Johnson or Raab, a lurch to No Deal and an early general election, let it be. David L is absolutely right - we cannot go on like this for a moment longer.
I do accept the irony that not voting will accelerate her political demise. Hmmm.
> @ydoethur said: > it would have been counter productive for a remain alliance to stand in Peterborough as it would have greatly increased the chances of the Brexit Party getting a real breakthrough. Hence why the remain candidate pulled out probably. > > You would have to see this as good news for Labour. With The Faragistas unabashedly pitching for Tory votes and the threat from a United Remain front gone, they have to be hot favourites to hold the seat. > > That being said:https://twitter.com/katyballs/status/1126522469538586624 > > > > If Labour's dismal performance last Thursday wasn't due to Brexit, and they were unable to exploit for electoral advantage a government in this much chaos - doesn't that suggest matters are far worse for them than we thought? I mean, Brexit will be over one way or another in a few months. But if they have then nothing to talk about - oh dear oh dear. > > If Labour lose Peterborough - to anybody - then Corbyn has to go, somehow. Even if the only way of doing it is for every member of the PLP with an IQ of above 5 (other than Macdonnell) to defect to the Liberal Democrats.
If Labour lose Peterborough, it'll be someone else's fault. Not Corbyn's.
Evening all It is all very well having a true Brexiteer as the next PM but I fail to see what any of them can actually achieve. Moving to a no deal position would surely see the government no confidenced. The EU has said the deal is as good as we are going to get unless we move to a softer Brexit so I can’t see a Brexiteer achieving a radically different deal as the one that is on the table now.
The Peoples Vote are laying into the Labour Customs Union plan with gusto. Both with voters acceptance of it and an economic analysis of the costs of being in a CU by the NIESR.
Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets.
We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative.
My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain
And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived.
I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark.
I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
Chances are (of course) that I will turn up and will vote Tory. But I have pretty well reached the stage of not caring: Theresa May’s utterly useless and clueless incompetence has sucked the lifeblood from the party and this 45 plus years activist. I just want her gone. If that means Johnson or Raab, a lurch to No Deal and an early general election, let it be. David L is absolutely right - we cannot go on like this for a moment longer.
I do accept the irony that not voting will accelerate her political demise. Hmmm.
Blimey, if the Tory party cannot rely on you voting for them then I'm going to win my bet on the Tories polling sub 10%.
I still maintain PM Boris will do a lot worse than Mrs May.
> I’m in a bit of a dilemma. The top 2 Tories in the SE are Dan Hannan (whom I can’t abide) and Nirj Diva (whom I can’t take seriously). I will never vote for another party so the choices are not bothering at all, spoiling the ballot, or tightly holding the nose and put the X in the usual place.
The usual place for the Conservatives (based on 2014) is third on the list, so you can put your X in the usual place and register a vote for the Greens with a clear conscience.
Nice one but I’d rather shack up with Nancy Mogg (ooh, er missus) than harbour even the most evanescent thought of ever voting for that obscurantist authoritarian mob. I’m at one with Mr Smithson snr on that.
I think Smithson Junior uses even stronger language.
> I’m in a bit of a dilemma. The top 2 Tories in the SE are Dan Hannan (whom I can’t abide) and Nirj Diva (whom I can’t take seriously). I will never vote for another party so the choices are not bothering at all, spoiling the ballot, or tightly holding the nose and put the X in the usual place.
The usual place for the Conservatives (based on 2014) is third on the list, so you can put your X in the usual place and register a vote for the Greens with a clear conscience.
Nice one but I’d rather shack up with Nancy Mogg (ooh, er missus) than harbour even the most evanescent thought of ever voting for that obscurantist authoritarian mob. I’m at one with Mr Smithson snr on that.
I think Smithson Junior uses even stronger language.
I'd sooner vote for Mark Reckless than the Greens, bloody watermelons.
Chances are (of course) that I will turn up and will vote Tory. But I have pretty well reached the stage of not caring: Theresa May’s utterly useless and clueless incompetence has sucked the lifeblood from the party and this 45 plus years activist. I just want her gone. If that means Johnson or Raab, a lurch to No Deal and an early general election, let it be. David L is absolutely right - we cannot go on like this for a moment longer.
I do accept the irony that not voting will accelerate her political demise. Hmmm.
I feel much the same way.
I will either vote Tory, or just write “FARCE” across the ballot paper.
FWIW, I’ve gone off Dan Hannan too and Nirj is a nice guy but a real eccentric I can’t take seriously either.
> That really is pathetic. I wonder if those who signed up fully appreciated that they were time limiting their political careers to the end of this Parliament.
>
> What an exciting, radical bunch they are! Breath of fresh air compared to the ‘old politics’ of standing for election
The CUKs have decided it'd be much more exciting to stand by the side and watch their voters vote for somebody else
CUK is, as Churchill said of Alfred Bossom, neither one thing nor the other, and is occupying ground which is both heavily tenanted by LDs, centrist Tories and centrist Labour and also splendidly vague. It makes the SDPs effort look pretty streamlined by comparison. Could it be that the only option for a new party with a chance of real clout will be if a very large number of moderates join the LDs. At the moment I don't see it, and in our system Labour and Tory can continue taking turns to cobble a government together with a minority or a coalition for the foreseeable future.
> @chloe said: > Evening all > It is all very well having a true Brexiteer as the next PM but I fail to see what any of them can actually achieve. Moving to a no deal position would surely see the government no confidenced. The EU has said the deal is as good as we are going to get unless we move to a softer Brexit so I can’t see a Brexiteer achieving a radically different deal as the one that is on the table now.
That is all true.
But, the messenger matters.
If the message is covered by e.g., Raab rather than e.g., May, it may finally penetrate the thick skulls of the ERG.
> I’m in a bit of a dilemma. The top 2 Tories in the SE are Dan Hannan (whom I can’t abide) and Nirj Diva (whom I can’t take seriously). I will never vote for another party so the choices are not bothering at all, spoiling the ballot, or tightly holding the nose and put the X in the usual place.
The usual place for the Conservatives (based on 2014) is third on the list, so you can put your X in the usual place and register a vote for the Greens with a clear conscience.
Nice one but I’d rather shack up with Nancy Mogg (ooh, er missus) than harbour even the most evanescent thought of ever voting for that obscurantist authoritarian mob. I’m at one with Mr Smithson snr on that.
I think Smithson Junior uses even stronger language.
I'd sooner vote for Mark Reckless than the Greens, bloody watermelons.
If the Greens were serious about the planet and nation going green they’d be far more politically friendly in co-opting natural Conservatives and those on the centre-right who are natural conservationists and care about the environment.
In reality, they’d rather use it as a Trojan horse for ecosocialism and communitarianism, so their Green agenda suffers.
I sometimes get the impression that too many of the Remainer parties and politicians are still wanting to take up time positioning all their pieces on the board in advance of the final match-up despite the fact that the game is effectively in overtime and should actually have been done and dusted some time ago now (ok, I've mixed some sporting metaphors there).
On that side there appear to be only people with philosophies of "well we can't do this now, we have to wait" or "it's not time yet for that" - you have to wonder if not now then when?
It doesn't appear to matter how much extra time they get, they still contrive to make their moves too late.
> @chloe said: > Evening all > It is all very well having a true Brexiteer as the next PM but I fail to see what any of them can actually achieve. Moving to a no deal position would surely see the government no confidenced. The EU has said the deal is as good as we are going to get unless we move to a softer Brexit so I can’t see a Brexiteer achieving a radically different deal as the one that is on the table now.
At least if that happens we can bring it to a head and have an election where either Corbyn wins or someone wins a mandate to do something a bit more concrete when it comes to Brexit. This febrile atmosphere is doing no-one any good.
And yes I think Corbyn is likely to be utterly useless and deeply divisive as a PM but I can see the advantages of a Labour majority government at the moment than this ridiculous show.
Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets.
We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative.
My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain
And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived.
I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark.
I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets.
We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative.
My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain
And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived.
I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark.
I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
Is there some kind of irony there that I'm missing? There might be, given that I don't know who Bob Sykes is (and no one of that name on google looks like a good fit), but taken at face value that is the most batshit crazy post this site has ever seen.
> @numbertwelve said: > > @chloe said: > > Evening all > > It is all very well having a true Brexiteer as the next PM but I fail to see what any of them can actually achieve. Moving to a no deal position would surely see the government no confidenced. The EU has said the deal is as good as we are going to get unless we move to a softer Brexit so I can’t see a Brexiteer achieving a radically different deal as the one that is on the table now. > > At least if that happens we can bring it to a head and have an election where either Corbyn wins or someone wins a mandate to do something a bit more concrete when it comes to Brexit. This febrile atmosphere is doing no-one any good. > > And yes I think Corbyn is likely to be utterly useless and deeply divisive as a PM but I can see the advantages of a Labour majority government at the moment than this ridiculous show.
That’s true, we need this over one way or another. We need to move on to other policy areas.
> @Stereotomy said: > > @isam said: > > > @TGOHF said: > > > > > Joke party > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1126521821959004162 > > > > > > > > > > > > That really is pathetic. I wonder if those who signed up fully appreciated that they were time limiting their political careers to the end of this Parliament. > > > > What an exciting, radical bunch they are! Breath of fresh air compared to the ‘old politics’ of standing for election > > The CUKs have decided it'd be much more exciting to stand by the side and watch their voters vote for somebody else
CUK are standing in the European Parliament elections, there is little point them standing in 60% Leave Peterborough
> @Casino_Royale said: > Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets. > > > > We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative. > > > > My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain > > And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived. > > I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark. > > I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
You are unnecessarily objectionable.
Many people are conflicted but I have confirmed I will vote for my party which I have given nearly 60 years of service to. There are times when you doubt your loyalty as on the two occasions I voted for Blair but they are the only occasions I have not voted conservative in my life time. At that time I was not a member of the party, but I had fought election campaigns for them in the 70s and 80s both wining and losing
> @williamglenn said: > > @ydoethur said: > > I will either vote Tory, or just write “FARCE” across the ballot paper. > > > > There's one letter too many there... > > Are the FARC standing?
15 candidates are standing in the Peterborough by election - no ChUK but the English Dems, SDP, Loonies, UKEUP, Common good, Christian people’s alliance, Renew and UKIP as well as the five main parties are running.
15 candidates are standing in the Peterborough by election - no ChUK but the English Dems, SDP, Loonies, UKEUP and UKIP as well as the five main parties are running.
> @DecrepitJohnL said: > > @williamglenn said: > > > @ydoethur said: > > > I will either vote Tory, or just write “FARCE” across the ballot paper. > > > > > > There's one letter too many there... > > > > Are the FARC standing? > > Not if Chuka's got anything to do with it.
Someone should stand as a Literal Democrat, dedicated to implementing the referendum result...
Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets.
We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative.
My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain
And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived.
I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark.
I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
Ouch CR, that's just plain nasty.
Nothing nasty about it. I call it as I see it and it’s fair comment. We’re all adults here.
It’s fine to consider yourself a floating voter. It’s fine to call yourself a centrist who sometimes (or usually) votes Tory, as DavidL does.
But, it really grates to genuflect as a true party loyalist, criticising those who are not as not representing “my party”, whilst openly admitting voting Blair twice at the height of his powers and a strong desire to vote Lib Dem now.
> @TudorRose said: > > @AndyJS said: > > Does anyone know why the BBC4 news at 7pm, which used to be called simply "World News", is now known as "Beyond 100 Days"? > > It's because they had a programme called 'the first 100 days' to record their hatred of Trump. Now it's 'beyond 100 days'.....
Thanks. Seems a bit ridiculous to use that as the name of a news programme 3 years after Trump was elected.
Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets.
We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative.
My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain
And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived.
I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark.
I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
Is there some kind of irony there that I'm missing? There might be, given that I don't know who Bob Sykes is (and no one of that name on google looks like a good fit), but taken at face value that is the most batshit crazy post this site has ever seen.
You’ve got one heck of a crazy “crazy” filter if you think that to be the case.
> @AndyJS said: > Does anyone know why the BBC4 news at 7pm, which used to be called simply "World News", is now known as "Beyond 100 Days"?
It is a nonsense programme being co-hosted from Washington with anti Trump journalists involving themselves in UK politics and mainly talking rubbish. It started as a judgment on Trump' s first 100 days but has continued as a joint US UK BBC slanted news programme
I reject everything Trump stands for but this programme is absurd
> @Charles said: > Does anyone know why the BBC4 news at 7pm, which used to be called simply "World News", is now known as "Beyond 100 Days"? > > I think it’s something to do with after a politicians first 100 days - but thought it was an occasional show not regular news?
No I think it's a regular show. TudorRose below has explained the name: it's a reference to Trump.
After a European elections mailshot from the Tories yesterday saying 'Vote Conservative to get a Brexit Deal' I have had one from Labour today saying 'Labour will bring our Country together'
I’m as pro EU as you can get but think the CU plan is terrible . There’s no way the EU are going to allow a non member any say in trade deals . It still doesn’t solve the border issue and will just allow Eurosceptics the chance to keep scapegoating the EU.
The CU plan is a desperate attempt by Labour to avoid dealing with freedom of movement so they’ve come up with this. If you’re going to try to stay in one thing it should have been the single market . Labour should have made the case for enforcing current rules , adding a register and increased funding for areas impacted by higher migration instead they capitulated and followed the Tories line .
> @Casino_Royale said: > Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets. > > > > We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative. > > > > My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain > > And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived. > > I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark. > > I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes. > > Is there some kind of irony there that I'm missing? There might be, given that I don't know who Bob Sykes is (and no one of that name on google looks like a good fit), but taken at face value that is the most batshit crazy post this site has ever seen. > > > You’ve got one heck of a crazy “crazy” filter if you think that to be the case.
It was simply unfair and unnecessary. Ask either of our two local conservative mps or our local conservative AMs and see how much they appreciate my membership and work over decades
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @AndyJS said: > > Does anyone know why the BBC4 news at 7pm, which used to be called simply "World News", is now known as "Beyond 100 Days"? > > It is a nonsense programme being co-hosted from Washington with anti Trump journalists involving themselves in UK politics and mainly talking rubbish. It started as a judgment on Trump' s first 100 days but has continued as a joint US UK BBC slanted news programme > > I reject everything Trump stands for but this programme is absurd
Yes it's the sort of thing that actually increases support for Trump in some quarters. Completely counterproductive. Especially with another election only 18 months away. They should focus on the future, not the past.
> If the Greens were serious about the planet and nation going green they’d be far more politically friendly in co-opting natural Conservatives and those on the centre-right who are natural conservationists and care about the environment. > > In reality, they’d rather use it as a Trojan horse for ecosocialism and communitarianism, so their Green agenda suffers.
There have been attempts by some to come up with right-wing friendly policy approaches to Green issues over the decades, but generally the right has become very hostile to the environment and so such attempts have foundered.
Even Cameron, who started out with greenwashing rhetoric such as "vote blue, go green" ended up telling people to "cut the green crap".
It's for those on the right to demonstrate they take environmental issues seriously, not for greens to do that work for them.
> Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets.
>
>
>
> We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative.
>
>
>
> My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain
>
> And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived.
>
> I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark.
>
> I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
>
> Is there some kind of irony there that I'm missing? There might be, given that I don't know who Bob Sykes is (and no one of that name on google looks like a good fit), but taken at face value that is the most batshit crazy post this site has ever seen.
>
>
> You’ve got one heck of a crazy “crazy” filter if you think that to be the case.
It was simply unfair and unnecessary. Ask either of our two local conservative mps or our local conservative AMs and see how much they appreciate my membership and work over decades
And yet, by your own admission, you haven’t supported your own party on several occasions and can’t be considered to be reliable.
So I do consider it fair. Your appeals and calls for party loyalty need to be considered in that light.
> @HYUFD said: > > @Stereotomy said: > > > @isam said: > > > > @TGOHF said: > > > > > > > Joke party > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1126521821959004162 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That really is pathetic. I wonder if those who signed up fully appreciated that they were time limiting their political careers to the end of this Parliament. > > > > > > What an exciting, radical bunch they are! Breath of fresh air compared to the ‘old politics’ of standing for election > > > > The CUKs have decided it'd be much more exciting to stand by the side and watch their voters vote for somebody else > > CUK are standing in the European Parliament elections, there is little point them standing in 60% Leave Peterborough
------------ IIRC ChUK claimed to have had hundreds of applications from prospective MEPs. If they cannot persuade even one of them to stand for Peterborough they can hardly claim to be a serious political force.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @AndyJS said: > > Does anyone know why the BBC4 news at 7pm, which used to be called simply "World News", is now known as "Beyond 100 Days"? > > It is a nonsense programme being co-hosted from Washington with anti Trump journalists involving themselves in UK politics and mainly talking rubbish. It started as a judgment on Trump' s first 100 days but has continued as a joint US UK BBC slanted news programme > > I reject everything Trump stands for but this programme is absurd
Trump derangement syndrome. CNN is no longer a news network, watching you would be hard pressed to learn about what is going on in the world beyond any story that doesn't directly involve Trump.
> @Casino_Royale said: > > @Casino_Royale said: > > > Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets. > > > > > > > > > > > > We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative. > > > > > > > > > > > > My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain > > > > > > And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived. > > > > > > I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark. > > > > > > I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes. > > > > > > Is there some kind of irony there that I'm missing? There might be, given that I don't know who Bob Sykes is (and no one of that name on google looks like a good fit), but taken at face value that is the most batshit crazy post this site has ever seen. > > > > > > > > > You’ve got one heck of a crazy “crazy” filter if you think that to be the case. > > > > It was simply unfair and unnecessary. Ask either of our two local conservative mps or our local conservative AMs and see how much they appreciate my membership and work over decades > > And yet, by your own admission, you haven’t supported your own party on several occasions and can’t be considered to be reliable. > > So I do consider it fair. Your appeals and calls for party loyalty need to be considered in that light.
I am too polite to respond to your judgment.
Are you going to attack each and every conservative who votes for the brexit party in the Euros
And in any case I am not going to engage any further in your nonsense
No Deal Brexit isn't going to happen. All parties have rhetorical postures, and some parties (Tory and Labour) have several. The issue is Brexit (all versions) v Remain.(all versions). Loads of people will vote Brexit to make a Brexit point, not a No Deal point. This is just as rational as a vote for Lab or Tory, where in both cases you have literally no idea what you will be actually voting for.
> If the Greens were serious about the planet and nation going green they’d be far more politically friendly in co-opting natural Conservatives and those on the centre-right who are natural conservationists and care about the environment.
>
> In reality, they’d rather use it as a Trojan horse for ecosocialism and communitarianism, so their Green agenda suffers.
There have been attempts by some to come up with right-wing friendly policy approaches to Green issues over the decades, but generally the right has become very hostile to the environment and so such attempts have foundered.
Even Cameron, who started out with greenwashing rhetoric such as "vote blue, go green" ended up telling people to "cut the green crap".
It's for those on the right to demonstrate they take environmental issues seriously, not for greens to do that work for them.
The Greens process to be the party that puts the environment and the planet at the heart of their politics.
That being the case they should be willing to reach out to both right and left and show flexibility and willingness to build the broadest possible coalition to achieve those aims as quickly as possible. What policy they do each should be evidence based.
In reality, they are far more interested in attacking the Tories over capitalism and identity politics than that, so they consistently underperform in delivering on what they claim to say they do on the tin.
> @Casino_Royale said: > Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets. > > > > We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative. > > > > My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain > > And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived. > > I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark. > > I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes. > > Ouch CR, that's just plain nasty. > > Nothing nasty about it. I call it as I see it and it’s fair comment. We’re all adults here. > > It’s fine to consider yourself a floating voter. It’s fine to call yourself a centrist who sometimes (or usually) votes Tory, as DavidL does. > > But, it really grates to genuflect as a true party loyalist, criticising those who are not as not representing “my party”, whilst openly admitting voting Blair twice at the height of his powers and a strong desire to vote Lib Dem now. > > Sorry, but there it is. And I stand by it.
The only reason to vote Tory in this election is if you are related to one of the candidates
> A result like that is not going to clarify much. Pretty much a score draw with regard to Brexit v Remain. Which I think is what we are going to get.
Nonetheless, there are some interesting truths here.
Twice as many people are willing to sign on the Farage dotted line as willing to vote Conservative.
And twice as many people are willing to put their X next to the name of known bigots, xenophobes and rape apologists as vote CUK.
What does that tell you about CON and CUK?
Largely agree. It tells me that if you vote Tory it cannot be clear what signal you are giving. If you wanted to vote CUK you might actually get more value out of voting LD
Are you going to attack each and every conservative who votes for the brexit party in the Euros
I'm willing to do that for £10 a time, and I can come up with lots of inventive invective.
It would be nice to have as much money as J K Rowling and to do it by saying to the faces of Boris and Francois what everyone is saying behind their backs.
It will mean 0 CUK or UKIP seats and Greens look uncertain, depending on geographical distribution. That said, CUK does head the ballot paper - traditionally that's supposed to help (certainly in our local elections the split votes almost invariably went for the alphabetically first of the two candidates).
> @ydoethur said: > Are you going to attack each and every conservative who votes for the brexit party in the Euros > > I'm willing to do that for £10 a time, and I can come up with lots of inventive invective. > > It would be nice to have as much money as J K Rowling and to do it by saying to the faces of Boris and Francois what everyone is saying behind their backs.
Be positive. Spend your time praising previous Conservative voters who will still vote Conservative in the Euros. It will take up a lot less of your time.
Chances are (of course) that I will turn up and will vote Tory. But I have pretty well reached the stage of not caring: Theresa May’s utterly useless and clueless incompetence has sucked the lifeblood from the party and this 45 plus years activist. I just want her gone. If that means Johnson or Raab, a lurch to No Deal and an early general election, let it be. David L is absolutely right - we cannot go on like this for a moment longer.
I do accept the irony that not voting will accelerate her political demise. Hmmm.
Conservatives still aren't near the ultimate humiliation stage of accepting every EU demand and crossing all of their red lines, which is likely to include ongoing payments, something that looks very like CFP, CAP, and FoM, actually a customs union, accepting all and every in scope future EU regulation long with CJEU oversight. This will happen whether it's May, Raab or Johnson.
Leave is a minority in the UK now and almost all of that group are in denial about the realistic options available. I don't see a good outcome for your party.
> @williamglenn said: > https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024 > > A result like that is not going to clarify much. Pretty much a score draw with regard to Brexit v Remain. Which I think is what we are going to get. > > CUK on 2% would clarify that their strategy of usurping the Lib Dems has failed. They’d either need to join them or seriously rethink their USP.
They seem more like the nucleus of a new One Nation Tory Party if they contain Dorrell, Johnson R and Soubry.
There's a chasm between the Fysh-Bone wing and the Lib.Dems. The Fysh-Bone wing seems more in control of the Tories than when Thatcher won 40 years ago and began to force out the wets (like Heseltine).
How right-wing are some of the ex-Labour MPs? Maybe they are One Nation Tories. If they're SDP, they might have been happier in Watson's group.
I'd rather see total realignment and PR than this attempt to usurp existing parties. Electoral Calculus identifies *seven* 'political tribes', not 2-3.
> @NickPalmer said: > > @algarkirk said: > > https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024 > > > > > > > > > > A result like that is not going to clarify much. Pretty much a score draw with regard to Brexit v Remain. Which I think is what we are going to get. > > It will mean 0 CUK or UKIP seats and Greens look uncertain, depending on geographical distribution. That said, CUK does head the ballot paper - traditionally that's supposed to help (certainly in our local elections the split votes almost invariably went for the alphabetically first of the two candidates).
Little sign of a LibDem surge there suggested by several commentators in recent days - beyond picking up support from CUK. Labour still looks the clear alternative to a Farage win really.
> > Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain
>
> >
>
> > .
>
> >
>
> > stark.
>
> >
>
> > I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
>
> >
>
> > Ieen.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You’ve got one heck of a crazy “crazy” filter if you think that to be the case.
>
>
>
> Idecades
>
> And yet, by your own admission, you haven’t supported your own party on several occasions and can’t be considered to be reliable.
>
> So I do consider it fair. Your appeals and calls for party loyalty need to be considered in that light.
I am too polite to respond to your judgment.
Are you going to attack each and every conservative who votes for the brexit party in the Euros
And in any case I am not going to engage any further in your nonsense
There’s no need for you to engage with me. But I will continue to call you out whenever you make posts like this. When the going gets tough you wobble rather than stand your ground; I think social agreeability is a stronger driver for you.
On politeness, that’s certainly a virtue but it’s not the only one, or even the overriding one.
Integrity, honesty and dependability are others and I will challenge those who presume to use their longservice record as a high horse from which they criticise others when their own is very much in question.
That’s not the actual poll, that’s an MRP model using poll data (WHY?).
(Apologies if you already know this, but the other people in the class don't so it's worth repeating)
MRP takes the responses to a poll, notes the characteristics of the people who responded (age, sex, location, etc), then from that it builds a model of the voting intention for many categories of people (so sixtysomething males in the Easy of England are 40% probable to vote Brexit, twentysomething women in London are 30% probable to vote LD, and so on). Since the number of people of each type is known for each constituency, you can apply the probabilities to those numbers and come up with an estimate of the vote.
Since panel polls have large numbers of responses and statistical theory breaks down for self-selecting non-representative nonrandom panel responses, this modelling approach may be better than a conventional panel
The unacknowledged problem is that it might not actually be better, or if it is then not consistently better. We haven't had much experience with them (for political purposes at least!) and the assumption that they are better is simply that, an assumption. I also point out that correct turnout assumptions will be vital for a good prediction, but God alone knows for certs what, say, the Brexit party turnout will be. So I'm worried...
Sorry, to be clear my why? refers to the fact the specific benefit of MRP is better geographic granularity in predictions, allowing you to more accurately translate polling figures into seat share. The supposed benefit is not related to national vote share, for which it is until now untested. It looks like they were specifically trying to estimate seats for Gina Miller’s website, which makes a bit more sense, that’s why I mentioned it.
When people say Yougov’s MRP did well in 2017 what they are talking about is the seat-level prediction and so being able to call no overall majority. It’s not about an accurate national share.
Be positive. Spend your time praising previous Conservative voters who will still vote Conservative in the Euros. It will take up a lot less of your time.
Yes, but it's not worthy doing just for fifty quid!
> @Casino_Royale said: > > @Casino_Royale said: > > > > @Casino_Royale said: > > > > > > > Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stark. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ieen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You’ve got one heck of a crazy “crazy” filter if you think that to be the case. > > > > > > > > > > > > Idecades > > > > > > And yet, by your own admission, you haven’t supported your own party on several occasions and can’t be considered to be reliable. > > > > > > So I do consider it fair. Your appeals and calls for party loyalty need to be considered in that light. > > > > I am too polite to respond to your judgment. > > > > Are you going to attack each and every conservative who votes for the brexit party in the Euros > > > > And in any case I am not going to engage any further in your nonsense > > There’s no need for you to engage with me. But I will continue to call you out whenever you make posts like this. When the going gets tough you wobble rather than stand your ground; I think social agreeability is a stronger driver for you. > > On politeness, that’s certainly a virtue but it’s not the only one, or even the overriding one. > > Integrity, honesty and dependability are others and I will challenge those who presume to use their longservice record as a high horse from which they criticise others when their own is very much in question.
I am voting conservative in the EUs . Are you and are you going to attack the thousands of conservative members and activists who will vote for Farage in equal terms to your attack on me
Certain posters tonight are reminding me of General Peel, of whom Disraeli commented to Derby 'You will find him very reasonable on every subject until somebody mentions the words "household suffrage," whereat his eye lights up with insanity.'
> @FF43 said: > Chances are (of course) that I will turn up and will vote Tory. But I have pretty well reached the stage of not caring: Theresa May’s utterly useless and clueless incompetence has sucked the lifeblood from the party and this 45 plus years activist. I just want her gone. If that means Johnson or Raab, a lurch to No Deal and an early general election, let it be. David L is absolutely right - we cannot go on like this for a moment longer. > > I do accept the irony that not voting will accelerate her political demise. Hmmm. > > Conservatives still aren't near the ultimate humiliation stage of accepting every EU demand and crossing all of their red lines, which is likely to include ongoing payments, something that looks very like CFP, CAP, and FoM, actually a customs union, accepting all and every in scope future EU regulation long with CJEU oversight. This will happen whether it's May, Raab or Johnson. > > Leave is a minority in the UK now and almost all of that group are in denial about the realistic options available. I don't see a good outcome for your party.
Why would the Conservatives accept such demands? The Backstop would be better.
> 15 candidates are standing in the Peterborough by election - no ChUK but the English Dems, SDP, Loonies, UKEUP, Common good, Christian people’s alliance, Renew and UKIP as well as the five main parties are running.
> @Sean_F said: > > @FF43 said: > > Chances are (of course) that I will turn up and will vote Tory. But I have pretty well reached the stage of not caring: Theresa May’s utterly useless and clueless incompetence has sucked the lifeblood from the party and this 45 plus years activist. I just want her gone. If that means Johnson or Raab, a lurch to No Deal and an early general election, let it be. David L is absolutely right - we cannot go on like this for a moment longer. > > > > I do accept the irony that not voting will accelerate her political demise. Hmmm. > > > > Conservatives still aren't near the ultimate humiliation stage of accepting every EU demand and crossing all of their red lines, which is likely to include ongoing payments, something that looks very like CFP, CAP, and FoM, actually a customs union, accepting all and every in scope future EU regulation long with CJEU oversight. This will happen whether it's May, Raab or Johnson. > > > > Leave is a minority in the UK now and almost all of that group are in denial about the realistic options available. I don't see a good outcome for your party. > > Why would the Conservatives accept such demands? The Backstop would be better.
I think if the Brexit Party win the European elections and Peterborough by election the Withdrawal Agreement will finally pass in June even without a Customs Union in the PD as 50 Labour MPs from Leave seats switch to back it in a panic about losing their seats
Comments
That being said: If Labour's dismal performance last Thursday wasn't due to Brexit, and they were unable to exploit for electoral advantage a government in this much chaos - doesn't that suggest matters are far worse for them than we thought? I mean, Brexit will be over one way or another in a few months. But if they have then nothing to talk about - oh dear oh dear.
If Labour lose Peterborough - to anybody - then Corbyn has to go, somehow. Even if the only way of doing it is for every member of the PLP with an IQ of above 5 (other than Macdonnell) to defect to the Liberal Democrats.
> > @williamglenn said:
> > > @Alanbrooke said:
> > > France heading for a referendum on Macrons plan to privatise Aeroports de Paris
> > >
> >
> > Tell Sid.
>
> I suspect Sid currently works at Orly and wears a yellow vest at weekends
Nah, Sid sold his shares the day British Gas was privatised and put the proceeds towards a holiday in 1987 in the Algarve instead of the usual Torremolinos. He retired to Southend in 2002 and is now in a care home.
> > @ralphmalph said:
> > Sky reporting no CHUK-TIG candidate for Peterborough,
> >
> > They could not even find an old retread to stand for them, oh dear.
>
> Yes but it helps to consolidate the anti Farage vote
I think that summarises Change's problem; we all know what they're against but not what they stand in favour of.
> I'm confused. Is it no "Change UK" candidate, or is it "No-Change UK" candidate?
>
> They should just pull out of the Euros too. A one-trick pony without the trick.
But plenty of donkeys.
> Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets.
>
>
>
> We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative.
>
>
>
> My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain
>
> I’m in a bit of a dilemma. The top 2 Tories in the SE are Dan Hannan (whom I can’t abide) and Nirj Diva (whom I can’t take seriously). I will never vote for another party so the choices are not bothering at all, spoiling the ballot, or tightly holding the nose and put the X in the usual place.
It’s a difficult one. In these circumstances, it’s necessary to reduce it to the simplest question, who do you want to be your MEP. If you dislike Hannan don’t vote for him, there will be plenty of other opportunities to vote Tory.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @ralphmalph said:
> > > Sky reporting no CHUK-TIG candidate for Peterborough,
> > >
> > > They could not even find an old retread to stand for them, oh dear.
> >
> > Yes but it helps to consolidate the anti Farage vote
>
> I think that summarises Change's problem; we all know what they're against but not what they stand in favour of.
And now we'll never know. Oh well.
https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/1126524265828900864?s=21
> > @Alanbrooke said:
> > > @williamglenn said:
> > > > @Alanbrooke said:
> > > > France heading for a referendum on Macrons plan to privatise Aeroports de Paris
> > > >
> > >
> > > Tell Sid.
> >
> > I suspect Sid currently works at Orly and wears a yellow vest at weekends
>
> He'll be Monsieur Sid Bertillon, who followed his Grandpa Jean and Dad Philippe into a job there. His uncle Alain is a policeman in the CRS and his aunt Marie-Claude is a teacher and local councillor for the Rassemblement National.
Ah, the state of Le Francais d'Aujourd hui.
> > @TGOHF said:
>
> > Joke party
>
> >
>
> > https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1126521821959004162
>
>
>
>
>
> That really is pathetic. I wonder if those who signed up fully appreciated that they were time limiting their political careers to the end of this Parliament.
>
> What an exciting, radical bunch they are! Breath of fresh air compared to the ‘old politics’ of standing for election
The CUKs have decided it'd be much more exciting to stand by the side and watch their voters vote for somebody else
I do accept the irony that not voting will accelerate her political demise. Hmmm.
> it would have been counter productive for a remain alliance to stand in Peterborough as it would have greatly increased the chances of the Brexit Party getting a real breakthrough. Hence why the remain candidate pulled out probably.
>
> You would have to see this as good news for Labour. With The Faragistas unabashedly pitching for Tory votes and the threat from a United Remain front gone, they have to be hot favourites to hold the seat.
>
> That being said:https://twitter.com/katyballs/status/1126522469538586624
>
>
>
> If Labour's dismal performance last Thursday wasn't due to Brexit, and they were unable to exploit for electoral advantage a government in this much chaos - doesn't that suggest matters are far worse for them than we thought? I mean, Brexit will be over one way or another in a few months. But if they have then nothing to talk about - oh dear oh dear.
>
> If Labour lose Peterborough - to anybody - then Corbyn has to go, somehow. Even if the only way of doing it is for every member of the PLP with an IQ of above 5 (other than Macdonnell) to defect to the Liberal Democrats.
If Labour lose Peterborough, it'll be someone else's fault. Not Corbyn's.
It is all very well having a true Brexiteer as the next PM but I fail to see what any of them can actually achieve. Moving to a no deal position would surely see the government no confidenced. The EU has said the deal is as good as we are going to get unless we move to a softer Brexit so I can’t see a Brexiteer achieving a radically different deal as the one that is on the table now.
The Peoples Vote are laying into the Labour Customs Union plan with gusto. Both with voters acceptance of it and an economic analysis of the costs of being in a CU by the NIESR.
EU polling at bottom plus link to tables.
I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark.
I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
I still maintain PM Boris will do a lot worse than Mrs May.
I will either vote Tory, or just write “FARCE” across the ballot paper.
FWIW, I’ve gone off Dan Hannan too and Nirj is a nice guy but a real eccentric I can’t take seriously either.
> Evening all
> It is all very well having a true Brexiteer as the next PM but I fail to see what any of them can actually achieve. Moving to a no deal position would surely see the government no confidenced. The EU has said the deal is as good as we are going to get unless we move to a softer Brexit so I can’t see a Brexiteer achieving a radically different deal as the one that is on the table now.
That is all true.
But, the messenger matters.
If the message is covered by e.g., Raab rather than e.g., May, it may finally penetrate the thick skulls of the ERG.
In reality, they’d rather use it as a Trojan horse for ecosocialism and communitarianism, so their Green agenda suffers.
On that side there appear to be only people with philosophies of "well we can't do this now, we have to wait" or "it's not time yet for that" - you have to wonder if not now then when?
It doesn't appear to matter how much extra time they get, they still contrive to make their moves too late.
> Evening all
> It is all very well having a true Brexiteer as the next PM but I fail to see what any of them can actually achieve. Moving to a no deal position would surely see the government no confidenced. The EU has said the deal is as good as we are going to get unless we move to a softer Brexit so I can’t see a Brexiteer achieving a radically different deal as the one that is on the table now.
At least if that happens we can bring it to a head and have an election where either Corbyn wins or someone wins a mandate to do something a bit more concrete when it comes to Brexit. This febrile atmosphere is doing no-one any good.
And yes I think Corbyn is likely to be utterly useless and deeply divisive as a PM but I can see the advantages of a Labour majority government at the moment than this ridiculous show.
> I will either vote Tory, or just write “FARCE” across the ballot paper.
>
> There's one letter too many there...
Are the FARC standing?
> https://www.peoples-vote.uk/a_customs_union_deal_on_brexit_would_cause_deeper_damage_to_both_conservatives_and_labour_new_poll
>
> The Peoples Vote are laying into the Labour Customs Union plan with gusto. Both with voters acceptance of it and an economic analysis of the costs of being in a CU by the NIESR.
>
> EU polling at bottom plus link to tables.
Of course they are. They want to stop brexit
> > @chloe said:
> > Evening all
> > It is all very well having a true Brexiteer as the next PM but I fail to see what any of them can actually achieve. Moving to a no deal position would surely see the government no confidenced. The EU has said the deal is as good as we are going to get unless we move to a softer Brexit so I can’t see a Brexiteer achieving a radically different deal as the one that is on the table now.
>
> At least if that happens we can bring it to a head and have an election where either Corbyn wins or someone wins a mandate to do something a bit more concrete when it comes to Brexit. This febrile atmosphere is doing no-one any good.
>
> And yes I think Corbyn is likely to be utterly useless and deeply divisive as a PM but I can see the advantages of a Labour majority government at the moment than this ridiculous show.
That’s true, we need this over one way or another. We need to move on to other policy areas.
Maybe we should just Es off on the puns if people are getting confused.
> > @isam said:
> > > @TGOHF said:
> >
> > > Joke party
> >
> > >
> >
> > > https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1126521821959004162
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > That really is pathetic. I wonder if those who signed up fully appreciated that they were time limiting their political careers to the end of this Parliament.
> >
> > What an exciting, radical bunch they are! Breath of fresh air compared to the ‘old politics’ of standing for election
>
> The CUKs have decided it'd be much more exciting to stand by the side and watch their voters vote for somebody else
CUK are standing in the European Parliament elections, there is little point them standing in 60% Leave Peterborough
> Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets.
>
>
>
> We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative.
>
>
>
> My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain
>
> And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived.
>
> I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark.
>
> I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
You are unnecessarily objectionable.
Many people are conflicted but I have confirmed I will vote for my party which I have given nearly 60 years of service to. There are times when you doubt your loyalty as on the two occasions I voted for Blair but they are the only occasions I have not voted conservative in my life time. At that time I was not a member of the party, but I had fought election campaigns for them in the 70s and 80s both wining and losing
> > @ydoethur said:
> > I will either vote Tory, or just write “FARCE” across the ballot paper.
> >
> > There's one letter too many there...
>
> Are the FARC standing?
Not if Chuka's got anything to do with it.
https://pcc-live.storage.googleapis.com/upload/www.peterborough.gov.uk/council/elections/ParliamentaryElectionForPeterborough-StatementOfPersonsNominated-May2019.pdf?inline=true
https://pcc-live.storage.googleapis.com/upload/www.peterborough.gov.uk/council/elections/ParliamentaryElectionForPeterborough-StatementOfPersonsNominated-May2019.pdf?inline=true
Edit - I see you beat me to it!
Some right fringe candidates in there. Even the Monster Raving Loonies have put up a candidate, which seems a pointless effort right now frankly.
> > @williamglenn said:
> > > @ydoethur said:
> > > I will either vote Tory, or just write “FARCE” across the ballot paper.
> > >
> > > There's one letter too many there...
> >
> > Are the FARC standing?
>
> Not if Chuka's got anything to do with it.
Someone should stand as a Literal Democrat, dedicated to implementing the referendum result...
> 15 candidates are standing in the Peterborough by election.
>
> www.peterborough.gov.uk/council/elections/ParliamentaryElectionForPeterborough-StatementOfPersonsNominated-May2019.pdf?inline=true
>
> Doesn't work, try this:
>
> https://pcc-live.storage.googleapis.com/upload/www.peterborough.gov.uk/council/elections/ParliamentaryElectionForPeterborough-StatementOfPersonsNominated-May2019.pdf?inline=true
>
> Edit - I see you beat me to it!
>
> Some right fringe candidates in there. Even the Monster Raving Loonies have put up a candidate, which seems a pointless effort right now frankly.
They are standing as the 'grown up' candidate.
> Does anyone know why the BBC4 news at 7pm, which used to be called simply "World News", is now known as "Beyond 100 Days"?
It's because they had a programme called 'the first 100 days' to record their hatred of Trump. Now it's 'beyond 100 days'.....
It’s fine to consider yourself a floating voter. It’s fine to call yourself a centrist who sometimes (or usually) votes Tory, as DavidL does.
But, it really grates to genuflect as a true party loyalist, criticising those who are not as not representing “my party”, whilst openly admitting voting Blair twice at the height of his powers and a strong desire to vote Lib Dem now.
Sorry, but there it is. And I stand by it.
> > @AndyJS said:
> > Does anyone know why the BBC4 news at 7pm, which used to be called simply "World News", is now known as "Beyond 100 Days"?
>
> It's because they had a programme called 'the first 100 days' to record their hatred of Trump. Now it's 'beyond 100 days'.....
Thanks. Seems a bit ridiculous to use that as the name of a news programme 3 years after Trump was elected.
You’ve got one heck of a crazy “crazy” filter if you think that to be the case.
> Does anyone know why the BBC4 news at 7pm, which used to be called simply "World News", is now known as "Beyond 100 Days"?
It is a nonsense programme being co-hosted from Washington with anti Trump journalists involving themselves in UK politics and mainly talking rubbish. It started as a judgment on Trump' s first 100 days but has continued as a joint US UK BBC slanted news programme
I reject everything Trump stands for but this programme is absurd
> Does anyone know why the BBC4 news at 7pm, which used to be called simply "World News", is now known as "Beyond 100 Days"?
>
> I think it’s something to do with after a politicians first 100 days - but thought it was an occasional show not regular news?
No I think it's a regular show. TudorRose below has explained the name: it's a reference to Trump.
> > @ralphmalph said:
> > https://www.peoples-vote.uk/a_customs_union_deal_on_brexit_would_cause_deeper_damage_to_both_conservatives_and_labour_new_poll
> >
> > The Peoples Vote are laying into the Labour Customs Union plan with gusto. Both with voters acceptance of it and an economic analysis of the costs of being in a CU by the NIESR.
> >
> > EU polling at bottom plus link to tables.
>
> Of course they are. They want to stop brexit
I’m as pro EU as you can get but think the CU plan is terrible . There’s no way the EU are going to allow a non member any say in trade deals . It still doesn’t solve the border issue and will just allow Eurosceptics the chance to keep scapegoating the EU.
The CU plan is a desperate attempt by Labour to avoid dealing with freedom of movement so they’ve come up with this. If you’re going to try to stay in one thing it should have been the single market . Labour should have made the case for enforcing current rules , adding a register and increased funding for areas impacted by higher migration instead they capitulated and followed the Tories line .
> Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets.
>
>
>
> We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative.
>
>
>
> My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain
>
> And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived.
>
> I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark.
>
> I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
>
> Is there some kind of irony there that I'm missing? There might be, given that I don't know who Bob Sykes is (and no one of that name on google looks like a good fit), but taken at face value that is the most batshit crazy post this site has ever seen.
>
>
> You’ve got one heck of a crazy “crazy” filter if you think that to be the case.
It was simply unfair and unnecessary. Ask either of our two local conservative mps or our local conservative AMs and see how much they appreciate my membership and work over decades
> > @AndyJS said:
> > Does anyone know why the BBC4 news at 7pm, which used to be called simply "World News", is now known as "Beyond 100 Days"?
>
> It is a nonsense programme being co-hosted from Washington with anti Trump journalists involving themselves in UK politics and mainly talking rubbish. It started as a judgment on Trump' s first 100 days but has continued as a joint US UK BBC slanted news programme
>
> I reject everything Trump stands for but this programme is absurd
Yes it's the sort of thing that actually increases support for Trump in some quarters. Completely counterproductive. Especially with another election only 18 months away. They should focus on the future, not the past.
> https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024?s=20
So 71% *DON'T* support no-deal Brexit then
> If the Greens were serious about the planet and nation going green they’d be far more politically friendly in co-opting natural Conservatives and those on the centre-right who are natural conservationists and care about the environment.
>
> In reality, they’d rather use it as a Trojan horse for ecosocialism and communitarianism, so their Green agenda suffers.
There have been attempts by some to come up with right-wing friendly policy approaches to Green issues over the decades, but generally the right has become very hostile to the environment and so such attempts have foundered.
Even Cameron, who started out with greenwashing rhetoric such as "vote blue, go green" ended up telling people to "cut the green crap".
It's for those on the right to demonstrate they take environmental issues seriously, not for greens to do that work for them.
So I do consider it fair. Your appeals and calls for party loyalty need to be considered in that light.
A result like that is not going to clarify much. Pretty much a score draw with regard to Brexit v Remain. Which I think is what we are going to get.
> > @Stereotomy said:
> > > @isam said:
> > > > @TGOHF said:
> > >
> > > > Joke party
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1126521821959004162
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > That really is pathetic. I wonder if those who signed up fully appreciated that they were time limiting their political careers to the end of this Parliament.
> > >
> > > What an exciting, radical bunch they are! Breath of fresh air compared to the ‘old politics’ of standing for election
> >
> > The CUKs have decided it'd be much more exciting to stand by the side and watch their voters vote for somebody else
>
> CUK are standing in the European Parliament elections, there is little point them standing in 60% Leave Peterborough
------------
IIRC ChUK claimed to have had hundreds of applications from prospective MEPs. If they cannot persuade even one of them to stand for Peterborough they can hardly claim to be a serious political force.
> https://twitter.com/katyballs/status/1126522469538586624
Were they the same people who did the antisemitism analysis of the Labour party?
> > @AndyJS said:
> > Does anyone know why the BBC4 news at 7pm, which used to be called simply "World News", is now known as "Beyond 100 Days"?
>
> It is a nonsense programme being co-hosted from Washington with anti Trump journalists involving themselves in UK politics and mainly talking rubbish. It started as a judgment on Trump' s first 100 days but has continued as a joint US UK BBC slanted news programme
>
> I reject everything Trump stands for but this programme is absurd
Trump derangement syndrome. CNN is no longer a news network, watching you would be hard pressed to learn about what is going on in the world beyond any story that doesn't directly involve Trump.
> https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024
>
>
>
>
> A result like that is not going to clarify much. Pretty much a score draw with regard to Brexit v Remain. Which I think is what we are going to get.
Nonetheless, there are some interesting truths here.
Twice as many people are willing to sign on the Farage dotted line as willing to vote Conservative.
And twice as many people are willing to put their X next to the name of known bigots, xenophobes and rape apologists as vote CUK.
What does that tell you about CON and CUK?
> > @Casino_Royale said:
>
> > Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain
>
> >
>
> > And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived.
>
> >
>
> > I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark.
>
> >
>
> > I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
>
> >
>
> > Is there some kind of irony there that I'm missing? There might be, given that I don't know who Bob Sykes is (and no one of that name on google looks like a good fit), but taken at face value that is the most batshit crazy post this site has ever seen.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You’ve got one heck of a crazy “crazy” filter if you think that to be the case.
>
>
>
> It was simply unfair and unnecessary. Ask either of our two local conservative mps or our local conservative AMs and see how much they appreciate my membership and work over decades
>
> And yet, by your own admission, you haven’t supported your own party on several occasions and can’t be considered to be reliable.
>
> So I do consider it fair. Your appeals and calls for party loyalty need to be considered in that light.
I am too polite to respond to your judgment.
Are you going to attack each and every conservative who votes for the brexit party in the Euros
And in any case I am not going to engage any further in your nonsense
> https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024
>
>
>
>
> A result like that is not going to clarify much. Pretty much a score draw with regard to Brexit v Remain. Which I think is what we are going to get.
Is there a betting market for third? Surely worth a punt on the LDs
> Does anyone know why the BBC4 news at 7pm, which used to be called simply "World News", is now known as "Beyond 100 Days"?
It was something to do with Trump, back in the days when the Beeb (and everyone else ) thought he wouldn't last.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024?s=20
>
> So 71% *DON'T* support no-deal Brexit then
24% remain
That being the case they should be willing to reach out to both right and left and show flexibility and willingness to build the broadest possible coalition to achieve those aims as quickly as possible. What policy they do each should be evidence based.
In reality, they are far more interested in attacking the Tories over capitalism and identity politics than that, so they consistently underperform in delivering on what they claim to say they do on the tin.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48217827
Seems like those really annoying "remember your last year" highlight videos that Facebook creates have been turning out best of ISIS vids.
> https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024
>
>
>
>
> A result like that is not going to clarify much. Pretty much a score draw with regard to Brexit v Remain. Which I think is what we are going to get.
33% Full On Brexit
26% Customs Union Brexit
14% May's Brexit
20% remain
7% unaccounted for - probably Break Up the UK voters.
> Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets.
>
>
>
> We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative.
>
>
>
> My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain
>
> And yet you continue to equivocate over whether you should support “(your) party” or not, which seems to rather coincidentally correlate with how well it’s doing and how it’s perceived.
>
> I think RoyalBlue had you bang to rights when he described you as a Fair Weather Friend. The contrast with JohnO, a true loyalist, who is still a man very much of his own views and mind, is stark.
>
> I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
>
> Ouch CR, that's just plain nasty.
>
> Nothing nasty about it. I call it as I see it and it’s fair comment. We’re all adults here.
>
> It’s fine to consider yourself a floating voter. It’s fine to call yourself a centrist who sometimes (or usually) votes Tory, as DavidL does.
>
> But, it really grates to genuflect as a true party loyalist, criticising those who are not as not representing “my party”, whilst openly admitting voting Blair twice at the height of his powers and a strong desire to vote Lib Dem now.
>
> Sorry, but there it is. And I stand by it.
The only reason to vote Tory in this election is if you are related to one of the candidates
It would be nice to have as much money as J K Rowling and to do it by saying to the faces of Boris and Francois what everyone is saying behind their backs.
> > @CatMan said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > > https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024?s=20
> >
> > So 71% *DON'T* support no-deal Brexit then
>
> 24% remain
20% Remain, unless you're including UKIP in there...
> https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024?s=20
Also a GE poll contained within the same Opinium data.
Con 25.0%
Lab 29.5%
LD 10.7%
UKIP 3.9%
SNP 4.3%
Plaid 1.1%
Green 5.1%
Brexit 17.5%
Other 0.6%
100% certain to vote only.
Figures are from the same spreadsheet linked to for the Euro poll via wiki site
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom
> https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1126519281808752640
>
>
>
> They won’t be discussing the weather.
There's something of the Alan B'Stard about Williamson. It's quite endearing in a Tory
> https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024
>
>
>
>
> A result like that is not going to clarify much. Pretty much a score draw with regard to Brexit v Remain. Which I think is what we are going to get.
It will mean 0 CUK or UKIP seats and Greens look uncertain, depending on geographical distribution. That said, CUK does head the ballot paper - traditionally that's supposed to help (certainly in our local elections the split votes almost invariably went for the alphabetically first of the two candidates).
> 15 candidates are standing in the Peterborough by election - no ChUK but the English Dems, SDP, Loonies, UKEUP, Common good, Christian people’s alliance, Renew and UKIP as well as the five main parties are running.
>
> https://pcc-live.storage.googleapis.com/upload/www.peterborough.gov.uk/council/elections/ParliamentaryElectionForPeterborough-StatementOfPersonsNominated-May2019.pdf?inline=true
However good the reason, the Labour candidate not revealing their local address looks shifty
> Are you going to attack each and every conservative who votes for the brexit party in the Euros
>
> I'm willing to do that for £10 a time, and I can come up with lots of inventive invective.
>
> It would be nice to have as much money as J K Rowling and to do it by saying to the faces of Boris and Francois what everyone is saying behind their backs.
Be positive. Spend your time praising previous Conservative voters who will still vote Conservative in the Euros. It will take up a lot less of your time.
Leave is a minority in the UK now and almost all of that group are in denial about the realistic options available. I don't see a good outcome for your party.
> https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024
>
> A result like that is not going to clarify much. Pretty much a score draw with regard to Brexit v Remain. Which I think is what we are going to get.
>
> CUK on 2% would clarify that their strategy of usurping the Lib Dems has failed. They’d either need to join them or seriously rethink their USP.
_____________________________________________________________________
They seem more like the nucleus of a new One Nation Tory Party if they contain Dorrell, Johnson R and Soubry.
There's a chasm between the Fysh-Bone wing and the Lib.Dems. The Fysh-Bone wing seems more in control of the Tories than when Thatcher won 40 years ago and began to force out the wets (like Heseltine).
How right-wing are some of the ex-Labour MPs? Maybe they are One Nation Tories. If they're SDP, they might have been happier in Watson's group.
I'd rather see total realignment and PR than this attempt to usurp existing parties. Electoral Calculus identifies *seven* 'political tribes', not 2-3.
> > @algarkirk said:
> > https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > A result like that is not going to clarify much. Pretty much a score draw with regard to Brexit v Remain. Which I think is what we are going to get.
>
> It will mean 0 CUK or UKIP seats and Greens look uncertain, depending on geographical distribution. That said, CUK does head the ballot paper - traditionally that's supposed to help (certainly in our local elections the split votes almost invariably went for the alphabetically first of the two candidates).
Little sign of a LibDem surge there suggested by several commentators in recent days - beyond picking up support from CUK. Labour still looks the clear alternative to a Farage win really.
On politeness, that’s certainly a virtue but it’s not the only one, or even the overriding one.
Integrity, honesty and dependability are others and I will challenge those who presume to use their longservice record as a high horse from which they criticise others when their own is very much in question.
When people say Yougov’s MRP did well in 2017 what they are talking about is the seat-level prediction and so being able to call no overall majority. It’s not about an accurate national share.
> https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024?s=20
2% for Chukas vanity party?
> > @HYUFD said:
> > https://twitter.com/minefornothing/status/1126473369610625024?s=20
>
> Also a GE poll contained within the same Opinium data.
>
> Con 25.0%
> Lab 29.5%
> LD 10.7%
> UKIP 3.9%
> SNP 4.3%
> Plaid 1.1%
> Green 5.1%
> Brexit 17.5%
> Other 0.6%
>
> 100% certain to vote only.
>
> Figures are from the same spreadsheet linked to for the Euro poll via wiki site
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom
Brexit Party even higher for a GE than the 15% they got with Yougov yesterday then.
Electoral Calculus has the Brexit Party picking up 2 seats, Thurrock and the Isle of Wight and Labour 19 seats short of a majority
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=25&LAB=29.5&LIB=11&UKIP=4&Green=4&ChUK=3&Brexit=17&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVUKIP=&TVGreen=&TVChUK=&TVBrexit=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTChUK=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
The three way split of "Remain" switchers leaves each of them individually worse off than the BP.
Gut instinct is that the Remain moves from Labour are likely to be heavily concentrated in London especially.
> > @Casino_Royale said:
>
> > > @Casino_Royale said:
>
> >
>
> > > Received our postal ballots today along with conservative and plaid leaflets.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > We will not vote for Farage so our choice is the conservatives or lib dems. The conservative leaflet was quite good and much as I would like to vote lib dem I have decided to stay loyal to my party and vote conservative.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > My good lady says it will either be a conservative vote or she will abstain
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > .
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > stark.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I wouldn’t want you anywhere near me in the trenches. You are just a slightly more level-headed and polite version of Bob Sykes.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Ieen.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > You’ve got one heck of a crazy “crazy” filter if you think that to be the case.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Idecades
>
> >
>
> > And yet, by your own admission, you haven’t supported your own party on several occasions and can’t be considered to be reliable.
>
> >
>
> > So I do consider it fair. Your appeals and calls for party loyalty need to be considered in that light.
>
>
>
> I am too polite to respond to your judgment.
>
>
>
> Are you going to attack each and every conservative who votes for the brexit party in the Euros
>
>
>
> And in any case I am not going to engage any further in your nonsense
>
> There’s no need for you to engage with me. But I will continue to call you out whenever you make posts like this. When the going gets tough you wobble rather than stand your ground; I think social agreeability is a stronger driver for you.
>
> On politeness, that’s certainly a virtue but it’s not the only one, or even the overriding one.
>
> Integrity, honesty and dependability are others and I will challenge those who presume to use their longservice record as a high horse from which they criticise others when their own is very much in question.
I am voting conservative in the EUs . Are you and are you going to attack the thousands of conservative members and activists who will vote for Farage in equal terms to your attack on me
> Chances are (of course) that I will turn up and will vote Tory. But I have pretty well reached the stage of not caring: Theresa May’s utterly useless and clueless incompetence has sucked the lifeblood from the party and this 45 plus years activist. I just want her gone. If that means Johnson or Raab, a lurch to No Deal and an early general election, let it be. David L is absolutely right - we cannot go on like this for a moment longer.
>
> I do accept the irony that not voting will accelerate her political demise. Hmmm.
>
> Conservatives still aren't near the ultimate humiliation stage of accepting every EU demand and crossing all of their red lines, which is likely to include ongoing payments, something that looks very like CFP, CAP, and FoM, actually a customs union, accepting all and every in scope future EU regulation long with CJEU oversight. This will happen whether it's May, Raab or Johnson.
>
> Leave is a minority in the UK now and almost all of that group are in denial about the realistic options available. I don't see a good outcome for your party.
Why would the Conservatives accept such demands? The Backstop would be better.
I would have expected to see a bigger shift to pro second vote parties .
> > @FF43 said:
> > Chances are (of course) that I will turn up and will vote Tory. But I have pretty well reached the stage of not caring: Theresa May’s utterly useless and clueless incompetence has sucked the lifeblood from the party and this 45 plus years activist. I just want her gone. If that means Johnson or Raab, a lurch to No Deal and an early general election, let it be. David L is absolutely right - we cannot go on like this for a moment longer.
> >
> > I do accept the irony that not voting will accelerate her political demise. Hmmm.
> >
> > Conservatives still aren't near the ultimate humiliation stage of accepting every EU demand and crossing all of their red lines, which is likely to include ongoing payments, something that looks very like CFP, CAP, and FoM, actually a customs union, accepting all and every in scope future EU regulation long with CJEU oversight. This will happen whether it's May, Raab or Johnson.
> >
> > Leave is a minority in the UK now and almost all of that group are in denial about the realistic options available. I don't see a good outcome for your party.
>
> Why would the Conservatives accept such demands? The Backstop would be better.
I think if the Brexit Party win the European elections and Peterborough by election the Withdrawal Agreement will finally pass in June even without a Customs Union in the PD as 50 Labour MPs from Leave seats switch to back it in a panic about losing their seats