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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Conservative party sweepstake

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited May 15 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Conservative party sweepstake

The last rites have not yet been spoken and already the heirs are gathered around the deathbed and stripping the rings off Theresa May’s fingers. The collective assumption of most Conservative MPs, which may yet be wrong, is that the Conservative role of party leader is shortly to fall vacant. Who might her replacement be?

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • DruttDrutt Posts: 395
    edited May 15
    1st?

    Anyway, lay Boris (PCP hate him) and lay Gove (wants to be kingmaker).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 27,943
    I wonder if one of those who was rumoured to be a potential TIG defector might instead go to the Lib Dems after the European elections.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 74,737
    I've been topping up on Andrea Leadsom for a while.

    I said in 2017 she might be the tallest dwarf left standing.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/12/31/three-tips-on-who-might-be-theresa-mays-successor/
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 20,188
    Some good snarky gags in there - particularly enjoyed the one about Rudd being capable..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 18,171
    I was going to say the only requirement for her replacement is that s/he has a pulse.

    Then I remembered Thatcher died six years ago.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 1,581
    Excellent piece. Disappointed that it didn't mention that Andrea Leadsom is a mother, though, next to which all others' leadership qualifications melt away.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 403
    edited May 15
    I had to break away from my supper to congratulate Mr Meeks on this terrific thread. It makes for hilarious reading.

    Bravo sir!!! Most enjoyable.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 27,943
    Nicky Morgan has shown loyalty? Apart from the times she called on Theresa May to go, and courted Brexiteers to back her for the leadership with her bizarre manoeuvres over the Malthouse Compromise.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/23/senior-brexiteers-touting-nicky-morganas-potential-successor/
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 14,383
    Good lord! Hats off to Alastair for getting all this bunch of rogues together! :open_mouth:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 18,171

    Excellent piece. Disappointed that it didn't mention that Andrea Leadsom is a mother, though, next to which all others' leadership qualifications melt away.

    There wasn't womb to mention it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 18,171

    Nicky Morgan has shown loyalty? Apart from the times she called on Theresa May to go, and courted Brexiteers to back her for the leadership with her bizarre manoeuvres over the Malthouse Compromise.<
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/23/senior-brexiteers-touting-nicky-morganas-potential-successor/

    There are not many people who made a worse mess at education than Gove.

    We could mention Adonis.

    But we must also mention Morgan.
  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 279
    A truly terrifying and depressing list! The leadership will surely go to the Leaveriest Leaver who can get into the final two. What will be intriguing is if two Leavers somehow make it there. It will be weeks of fighting over who is the purest.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 634
    There's a number of really funny, withering put-downs in this thread header. Thanks Alastair, good read!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 54,000
    > @Drutt said:
    > 1st?
    >
    > Anyway, lay Boris (PCP hate him) and lay Gove (wants to be kingmaker).

    Boris slashed the Labour lead to 1% with Comres at the weekend taking the Tories from 19% under May to 26% with him and halved the Brexit Party total from 20% to 10%.

    Most middle of the road Tory MPs want to protect their seats and if he is the best option to step the Brexit Party tide many will back him, some reports have put Boris on 50 MPs.


    If not Boris, Raab and Hancock both seem to be gaining support at Westminster, though Leadsom or Patel I think would do well with the membership if they got through. Hunt still leads with MPs with about 70 to 80 reportedly behind him but he trails in the Tory membership polls
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 2,354
    Very amusing. And at the same time dispiriting.
    The winner will have to pick up the pieces after May.
    Truss would be my pick, but she should shy away from the fashion shoots.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 1,332
    > @houndtang said:
    > A truly terrifying and depressing list! The leadership will surely go to the Leaveriest Leaver who can get into the final two. What will be intriguing is if two Leavers somehow make it there. It will be weeks of fighting over who is the purest.

    I agree!

    Further to that, this country is heading for a very painful reckoning. I worry for my future with some of the zealots being lined up for the leadership and short-lived occupancy of No10. Then we get the equally dreadful Corbyn...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 14,383
    No place in the Rogues gallery for Chris Grayling I notice... :D
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 18,171
    GIN1138 said:

    No place in the Rogues gallery for Chris Grayling I notice... :D

    When he's mentioned, things will be getting very hairy.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 10,625
    I've got decent odds on a few of these, but right now I agree with Alastair that McVey might be the one to watch.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 2,354
    none of those wretched >>> so far!
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 5,300
    It's impossible to resist requoting the legendary punter Mark Coton when confronted with the job of assessing a particularly dismal horse race:

    "None of these is good enough to win but one of them has to. My pin fell on..."
  • mattmatt Posts: 2,805
    Philip Hammond - while he is CoftheE, he’s not obviously shown either a charismatic personality or scintillating leadership skills. The epitome in some ways of a grey man in an a grey suit. A male TM, if you will. One can see why he’s not in contention.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 18,171
    geoffw said:

    none of those wretched >>> so far!

    Interesting to note you don't read Hyufd's posts.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 10,864
    Cornelius Lysaght gives a horseracing commentary on the leadership stakes.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 13,657
    A wonderfully funny and withering article! Thank you @AlastairMeeks.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 23,078
    ydoethur said:

    Nicky Morgan has shown loyalty? Apart from the times she called on Theresa May to go, and courted Brexiteers to back her for the leadership with her bizarre manoeuvres over the Malthouse Compromise.<
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/23/senior-brexiteers-touting-nicky-morganas-potential-successor/

    There are not many people who made a worse mess at education than Gove.

    We could mention Adonis.

    But we must also mention Morgan.
    Estelle.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 1,332
    > @tlg86 said:
    > I've got decent odds on a few of these, but right now I agree with Alastair that McVey might be the one to watch.

    I find her repulsive and other people I talk politics with find her equally appalling. What value would McVey bring the Tories in seats? I mean Liverpool and the Greater Merseyside area is sterile ground for the Tories. What would be the point of her being leader as she brings no big ideas, her personality is not very attractive either and her attitude to welfare claimants flies in the face of the one area she might appeal in which is Liverpool and Merseyside....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 8,566
    > @El_Capitano said:
    > Excellent piece. Disappointed that it didn't mention that Andrea Leadsom is a mother, though, next to which all others' leadership qualifications melt away.

    I am sure that the baby eaters would favour such a fecund source of nutrition.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 18,171
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nicky Morgan has shown loyalty? Apart from the times she called on Theresa May to go, and courted Brexiteers to back her for the leadership with her bizarre manoeuvres over the Malthouse Compromise.<
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/23/senior-brexiteers-touting-nicky-morganas-potential-successor/

    There are not many people who made a worse mess at education than Gove.

    We could mention Adonis.

    But we must also mention Morgan.
    Estelle.
    She didn't make a mess. She just wasn't very good.

    She did not, for example, appoint a Chief Inspector of Schools who had no experience of teaching and if performance managed in her previous role would have been sacked for gross incompetence.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 2,354
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    none of those wretched >>> so far!

    Interesting to note you don't read Hyufd's posts.
    drat
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 1,332
    > @ydoethur said:
    > Nicky Morgan has shown loyalty? Apart from the times she called on Theresa May to go, and courted Brexiteers to back her for the leadership with her bizarre manoeuvres over the Malthouse Compromise.<
    > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/23/senior-brexiteers-touting-nicky-morganas-potential-successor/
    >
    > There are not many people who made a worse mess at education than Gove.
    >
    > We could mention Adonis.
    >
    > But we must also mention Morgan.
    >
    > Estelle.
    >
    > She didn't make a mess. She just wasn't very good.
    >
    > She did not, for example, appoint a Chief Inspector of Schools who had no experience of teaching and if performance managed in her previous role would have been sacked for gross incompetence.

    I think Morris had a lack of self confidence. She did no worse than any of the others who have failed to raise standards for many years despite extra spending....
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 2,302
    edited May 15
    'Most photographed barn in America': Good to see an allusion to DeLillo's White Noise on PB.

    80s post-modern fiction trumps 80s pop music any day!
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 5,300
    > @DecrepitJohnL said:
    > Cornelius Lysaght gives a horseracing commentary on the leadership stakes.
    >

    Alastair's jokes were funnier.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 24,657
    > @ThomasNashe said:
    > 'Most photographed barn in America': Good to see an allusion to DeLillo's White Noise on PB.

    The whole contest is going to be an airborne toxic event.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 3,125
    > @houndtang said:
    > A truly terrifying and depressing list! The leadership will surely go to the Leaveriest Leaver who can get into the final two. What will be intriguing is if two Leavers somehow make it there. It will be weeks of fighting over who is the purest.

    The list: Yes and no.
    All of the list have managed to accumulate quite strong negatives, but most have strong positives too.

    Imagine compiling a similar list for the other parties. If you ran a tuck-shop at school you'd be well on your way. (I guess that Corbyn's early years had being charged double at the tuck-shop as one of his defining moments! Should have been quadruple at least.)

    It's likely we'll get a very compromised next Tory leader, and almost certainly they'll be the PM too. We'll most likely get a quite capable figure though. Of the possibilities there's only Davis, Williamson, and Baker that are total-fail candidates.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 8,515
    I really shouldn't comment on Tory leadership stakes when I have such a poor feel for that tribe. I would point out however the uncanny similarities between Raab and Iain Duncan Smith back in the day: the lack of any obvious qualification for the job, the feeling that he was your sort of guy against dubious off-message competition, who you know would pander to every prejudice, and keep the self declared faithful well within their comfort zones.

    No-one would have suspected IDS of hidden talents but look where he got to !
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 18,171
    edited May 15

    I think Morris had a lack of self confidence. She did no worse than any of the others who have failed to raise standards for many years despite extra spending....

    The problem is that very few Secretaries of State have actually had any interest in education, while the administrative machinery involved is a joke. There is not one civil servant at, say, OFQUAL, who is fit to act as clerk to a village council. As a result, education is chronically mismanaged, the wrong things are targeted and the actual opportunities that our education system offers are missed.

    Gove was an exception to the first, but he had neither the insight nor the sense to do anything positive about it. Morris was also an exception, but she had not the political skill to exploit it. Morgan was just an idiot, but the consequences of her idiocy have been very serious.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 17,512
    No odds for Baker??
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 10,864
    > @Peter_the_Punter said:
    > > @DecrepitJohnL said:
    > > Cornelius Lysaght gives a horseracing commentary on the leadership stakes.
    > >
    >
    > Alastair's jokes were funnier.

    There is that but otoh Cornelius went to Eton so might have more insight into one or two candidates.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 18,171
    IanB2 said:

    No odds for Baker??

    Just use your loaf.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 10,625
    > @The_Taxman said:
    > > @tlg86 said:
    > > I've got decent odds on a few of these, but right now I agree with Alastair that McVey might be the one to watch.
    >
    > I find her repulsive and other people I talk politics with find her equally appalling. What value would McVey bring the Tories in seats? I mean Liverpool and the Greater Merseyside area is sterile ground for the Tories. What would be the point of her being leader as she brings no big ideas, her personality is not very attractive either and her attitude to welfare claimants flies in the face of the one area she might appeal in which is Liverpool and Merseyside....

    I didn't say that it would necessarily be a good appointment!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,472
    Mr Meeks is correct in that anyone who is looking beyond Brexit is doomed to failure, since even the initial phase of Brexit won't be done by the time of the contest. They therefore have to be either a deeply committed no deal Brexiteer (or Boris), or one of the well known, experienced, but bland existing Cabinet Members who can try to appeal as close to the middle ground (while needing to back no deal in principle, I should think, given the members' views).

    They are not looking for a unity candidate, despite words to the contrary the actions of the various factions would indicate they want to see the other cast out if they win. That they also pretend they can win an election while splitting like that is deeply sad for them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 17,512
    The most woeful field of candidates put to the most out of touch electorate(s) in the country; what could go wrong?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 13,657
    Any candidate backing No Deal in principle is not fit to be Prime Minister, however much it may qualify them to be Tory Party leader.

    The country’s needs are more important than the desires of Tory party members.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 11,066
    Haha! Very funny.

    The Glorious 27!
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 1,581
    ydoethur said:

    As a result, education is chronically mismanaged, the wrong things are targeted and the actual opportunities that our education system offers are missed.

    Anecdata:

    In Oxfordshire, three primary schools have been Ofstedded as 'inadequate' within the last week alone. All three were LA-maintained rather than academies. There is basically no support for LA schools any more: you're on your own - and a more active LA would have spotted the issues and intervened. Yet the good academy trusts are few and far between, and being very cautious about taking on too many schools.

    I wonder if the cuts upon cuts upon cuts are finally going to break as a national story this year.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,472
    edited May 15
    Gove would be the most interesting. For all his flaws he actually stands up and defends when he changes position with an impressive amount of effort, rather than whinge endlessly and when pressed maybe do a few words about the current path being the right one, even as they prepare the way to say how much they hated all of this. Granted, he would cause ydoethur to not back the party, but I would say he has been one of the more grown up over Brexit since the referendum finished.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,472
    "The Tories could do a lot worse. They probably will"

    You mispelled 'certainly'.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 27,943
    Could we make them go through US-style primaries, where they first have to pass muster in Worcester before heading to Barrow-in-Furness, followed by a Super Tuesday to whittle them down?
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 549
    IanB2 said:

    No odds for Baker??

    I asked Bet365 for a price but they refused.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 634
    > @williamglenn said:
    > Could we make them go through US-style primaries, where they first have to pass muster in Worcester before heading to Barrow-in-Furness, followed by a Super Tuesday to whittle them down?

    We might have to settle for Tragic Thursday
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,472
    > @Cyclefree said:
    > Any candidate backing No Deal in principle is not fit to be Prime Minister, however much it may qualify them to be Tory Party leader.
    >
    > The country’s needs are more important than the desires of Tory party members.

    -------------------------------------
    The idiots should have backed the WA when they had the chance, then elected someone who would make all the right noises about being as harsh toward the EU in the next phase as possible.

    For all May has earned plenty of ire for being frozen in place for half a year, which is plenty damaging, we would have left in non-damaging fashion (inasmuch as any leave is non damaging) if they'd just listened to her (which even JRM and Boris did, proving themselves to be quite dim because it took 4 months of people telling them that if they said no it might end up with 'no Brexit' before they noticed the same thing), and yet she is the one they and the members are most mad at (yeah yeah, it is not real brexit and whatnot, something only a minority of the ERG believe as proven by most voting for the WA in the end).

    It's why May will go soon, for real this time - she would not have been frozen in place this long if she were willing to no deal, she must think similarly to you on the matter.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,472
    > @solarflare said:
    > > @williamglenn said:
    > > Could we make them go through US-style primaries, where they first have to pass muster in Worcester before heading to Barrow-in-Furness, followed by a Super Tuesday to whittle them down?
    >
    > We might have to settle for Tragic Thursday

    If they vote for Hardman Baker it will be Tumescent Tuesday
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 11,608
    edited May 15
    If any of the candidates had never existed, would we have noticed?

    Boris maybe.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 1,332
    > @kle4 said:
    > Gove would be the most interesting. For all his flaws he actually stands up and defends when he changes position with an impressive amount of effort, rather than whinge endlessly and when pressed maybe do a few words about the current path being the right one, even as they prepare the way to say how much they hated all of this. Granted, he would cause ydoethur to not back the party, but I would say he has been one of the more grown up over Brexit since the referendum finished.

    I find Gove insincere, smug and untrustworthy! I cannot stand him. He is like Gordon Brown in his repulsiveness to voters. Mind you most of the Tories cited in the article have defects. The best of them are all remain supporters such as Amber Rudd and Mark Harper, who are both non starters in the Europhobic tory party of today.


    The UK is on the rocks, it will not be long before the ship is scuttled. Still the Brexit supporting media seemed to be doubling down on their campaign for Brexit, which is relentless...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 74,737
    What on Earth has happened to Dirty Leeds in the last 20 minutes of football?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,472
    > @The_Taxman said:
    > > @kle4 said:
    > > Gove would be the most interesting. For all his flaws he actually stands up and defends when he changes position with an impressive amount of effort, rather than whinge endlessly and when pressed maybe do a few words about the current path being the right one, even as they prepare the way to say how much they hated all of this. Granted, he would cause ydoethur to not back the party, but I would say he has been one of the more grown up over Brexit since the referendum finished.
    >
    > I find Gove insincere, smug and untrustworthy! I cannot stand him. He is like Gordon Brown in his repulsiveness to voters. Mind you most of the Tories cited in the article have defects. The best of them are all remain supporters such as Amber Rudd and Mark Harper, who are both non starters in the Europhobic tory party of today.
    >
    >
    > The UK is on the rocks, it will not be long before the ship is scuttled. Still the Brexit supporting media seemed to be doubling down on their campaign for Brexit, which is relentless...

    ---------------------

    I don't say that I necessarily think Gove would be good, trustworthy or sincere. But taking it as read that most of the candidates would be unacceptable based on their views for a lot of people here, Gove has qualities others lack and more political skills, as well as demonstrably putting in effort. I doubt it is sufficient to repair his reputation with leavers or make him suddenly popular with the public, but I think they could do a lot worse than Gove.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 8,566
    > @TheScreamingEagles said:
    > What on Earth has happened to Dirty Leeds in the last 20 minutes of football?

    Derby had their spies out?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 74,737
    edited May 15
    The UK primaries should be conducted on county lines.

    Let us start off with the minor insignificant counties like Suffolk, Essex, and Lancashire, then culminate in Super Thursday when Yorkshire and the Humber votes in the primaries.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 74,737
    I see my pep talk did wonders for Dirty Leeds.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 29,880
    edited May 15

    What on Earth has happened to Dirty Leeds in the last 20 minutes of football?

    Sheffield United will fly the Yorkshire flag in the EPL :)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 27,943
    > @TheScreamingEagles said:
    > The UK primaries should be conducted on county lines.
    >
    > Let us start off with the minor insignificant counties like Suffolk, Essex, and Lancashire, then culminate in Super Thursday when Yorkshire and the Humber votes in the primary.

    One of them needs to have a bacon sandwich festival so their ability to eat elegantly can be vetted.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 74,737
    Foxy said:

    > @TheScreamingEagles said:

    > What on Earth has happened to Dirty Leeds in the last 20 minutes of football?



    Derby had their spies out?

    Nah, Derby were shit for the first for the first 40 minutes.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 29,880

    The UK primaries should be conducted on county lines.



    Let us start off with the minor insignificant counties like Suffolk, Essex, and Lancashire, then culminate in Super Thursday when Yorkshire and the Humber votes in the primaries.

    Well, "and the Humber" is NOT a proper county!
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 277
    Loathsome versus Gove. Gove wins. If Loathsome wins, party splits. Even if Gove wins, Tory Party out for at least two elections, and maybe longer if voting reform happens in their absence.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 74,737

    > @TheScreamingEagles said:

    > The UK primaries should be conducted on county lines.

    >

    > Let us start off with the minor insignificant counties like Suffolk, Essex, and Lancashire, then culminate in Super Thursday when Yorkshire and the Humber votes in the primary.



    One of them needs to have a bacon sandwich festival so their ability to eat elegantly can be vetted.

    That would be a disadvantage for Jewish and Muslim candidates.

    Perhaps they should have a contest to see if they are worthy of wielding Thor's Mjolnir.

    I'll be honest though, I prefer Thor's axe.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 243
    fpt for solarflare

    > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
    > > > @nico67 said:
    > > > Oh poor Nigel . A few Remain supporters turned up and now he’s playing the martyr .
    > > >
    > > > Shall we start a Je Suis Nigel# campaign .
    > >
    > > Like him or loath him he is good at winding people up and remainers trying to blockade him is a gift he will take full advantage off
    >
    > Seeing as it's in a supermarket car park then I guess the appropriate response would be "every little helps"? <

    +++++


    When the Brexit Part'y's USP is "our democratic voices are being silenced", the idea that by "silencing the democratic voices of the Brexit Party" you might somehow undermine them is.... interesting.

    It is also stupid, wanky, arrogant, twattish, narcissistic and supremely myopic and self indulgent, and, as such, everything you have come to expect from Remainerdom, since June 2016. And I am a Remainer.

    Remain really did deserve to lose. Sadly. And they would probably contrive to lose again, given the chance.
    Flag Quote ·
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 5,828
    edited May 15
    Article of the year. Worthy of a national newspaper.

    "As a general rule the able candidates are ruled out by their views on Brexit while the candidates with appropriate views on Brexit are ruled out by their ability."

    Priceless.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 14,383
    > @Jonathan said:
    > If any of the candidates had never existed, would we have noticed?
    >
    > Boris maybe.

    Have you been watching It's A Wonderful Life? :D
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 243
    > @El_Capitano said:
    > Excellent piece. Disappointed that it didn't mention that Andrea Leadsom is a mother, though, next to which all others' leadership qualifications melt away. <

    +++

    You clearly write in jest. But I wonder if T May's travails are, partly, due to her childless status,

    Parenting teaches you empathy, even if you are naturally unempathetic. You are given a small wailing creature - maybe several of them - and you HAVE to work out what they want. Parenting is a moral and emotional education. An education that T May never had, but from which she might have benefited, and therefore been less of a disaster.

    A politician who is at ease with kids is a politician who will be at ease with voters. I think, subliminally, that's what we all read from the baby-kissing photo ops, and there may be some validity in the reading.

    I do realise that by posting this I apparently am insulting all childless commenters on the site, and I am sorry for that, and I do not mean to hurt. But there is a debate to be had on this issue.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,472
    Looking at this list I am genuinely worried for the country. Not even because of the respective qualities or lack thereof of the candidates, but just because the fact the contest will be happening, and the context it is likely to happen, suggests we are in big big trouble, and none of them seem like they have a chance of resolving the issues before us. No, not even the fabled on Boris himself - even if his appeal works as he and others hope, his plans have just been to spout bombastic slogans in newspaper articles, when I think it reasonable to suggest we need more than that to get out of this mess.

    We're so deeply screwed. It's not like remaining will result in one big happy family in the nation either.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 105
    No Ruth?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 1,408
    edited May 15
    Penny Mordaunt should win . Great hair and could have been in a Bond movie , she has a vixenish appeal !

    Being serious though it’s all pretty horrific . The Tory Membership have now become like a death cult .

    It will be a race to see who can be as anti EU as possible , the winner the one who delivers the best no deal speech .

    Meanwhile the rest of the country and business will look on in horror and realize they’re now collateral damage to the wishes of the membership who could care less.

    Best take advantage of your freedom of movement and escape while you can.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 74,737
    Dirty Leeds living up to their reputation.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 74,737

    No Ruth?

    I think Alastair restricted his list to people who are currently MPs.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,472
    edited May 15
    > @Byronic said:
    > > @El_Capitano said:
    > > Excellent piece. Disappointed that it didn't mention that Andrea Leadsom is a mother, though, next to which all others' leadership qualifications melt away. <
    >
    > +++
    >
    > You clearly write in jest. But I wonder if T May's travails are, partly, due to her childless status,
    >
    > Parenting teaches you empathy, even if you are naturally unempathetic. You are given a small wailing creature - maybe several of them - and you HAVE to work out what they want. Parenting is a moral and emotional education. An education that T May never had, but from which she might have benefited, and therefore been less of a disaster.
    >
    > A politician who is at ease with kids is a politician who will be at ease with voters. I think, subliminally, that's what we all read from the baby-kissing photo ops, and there may be some validity in the reading.
    >
    > I do realise that by posting this I apparently am insulting all childless commenters on the site, and I am sorry for that, and I do not mean to hurt. But there is a debate to be had on this issue.
    >
    -----------------------------------
    Well at least you recognise that, but as part of that debate I just don't see how people come to this conclusion about parenting. It would probably take all of 5 minutes to track down truly excellent world leaders in history who were childless, and any number of genuinely terrible ones who not only had kids but might even have been decent parents. At the very least it is clear that merely having kids does not confer people with this moral and emotional education that you think is important, so since it is not guaranteed to come with parentage, it is surely also possible to gain this education without being a parent.

    That's what it boils down to for me - people are perfectly capable of being shit or great whether they are parents or not. Even if one thinks it more likely that one will have the necessary qualities as a result of being a parent since it is demonstrably not essential or automatic as a result of being a parent, I think it unnecessary to speculate as to that being the reason or even a reason for May being crap.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 74,737
    edited May 15
    Anorak said:

    Article of the year. Worthy of a national newspaper.



    "As a general rule the able candidates are ruled out by their views on Brexit while the candidates with appropriate views on Brexit are ruled out by their ability."



    Priceless.

    PB is very lucky to have Alastair, Cyclefree, and David Herdson regularly writing pieces that are worthy of national newspaper comment and analysis sections.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 1,332
    > @nico67 said:
    > Penny Mordaunt should win . Great hair and could have been in a Bond movie , she has a vixenish appeal !
    >
    > Being serious though it’s all pretty horrific . The Tory Membership have now become like a death cult .
    >
    > It will be a race to see who can be as anti EU as possible , the winner the one who delivers the best no deal speech .
    >
    > Meanwhile the rest of the country and business will look on in horror and realize they’re now collateral damage to the wishes of the membership who could care less.
    >
    > Best take advantage of your freedom of movement and escape while you can.

    The start of your comment reminds me of Yes Minister/ Prime minister where one sage observed that the people who read the sun do not care who is PM as long as she has big tits! The sun of course have stopped page 3 I understand but the quote from yes minister is still funny!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 23,818
    > @TheScreamingEagles said:
    > Article of the year. Worthy of a national newspaper.
    >
    >
    >
    > "As a general rule the able candidates are ruled out by their views on Brexit while the candidates with appropriate views on Brexit are ruled out by their ability."
    >
    >
    >
    > Priceless.
    >
    > PB is very lucky to have Alastair, Cyclefree, and David Herdson regularly writing pieces that are worthy of national newspaper comment and analysis sections.

    Absolutely
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 29,880
    nico67 said:

    Penny Mordaunt should win . Great hair and could have been in a Bond movie , she has a vixenish appeal !

    She looks OK :blush:
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 243
    > @kle4 said:

    >
    > That's what it boils down to for me - people are perfectly capable of being shit or great whether they are parents or not. Even if one thinks it more likely that one will have the necessary qualities as a result of being a parent since it is demonstrably not essential or automatic as a result of being a parent, I think it unnecessary to speculate as to that being the reason or even a reason for May being crap. <

    +++++

    Fair enough. I do see how my remarks could appear nasty, even inhumane. Which is why they were heavily caveated.

    But put it this way: if T May was the mother of four boisterous kids - from a giggly infant to reasonably adjusted teens, with a bit of rebellion - then, 1. it would make her more relatable (and popular), 2, it would show she's a decent mother, and that does mean something (however unfairly)

    On the other hand, recent prime ministers have all had kids, from Blair to Brown to Cameron, and they've all been pretty disastrous, so maybe this is truly meaningless (beyond the ability to attract votes as an ordinary family man or woman)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 29,880
    Looks like the Blades will be the only Yorkshire club in the EPL next season...
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 243
    > @TheScreamingEagles said:
    > Article of the year. Worthy of a national newspaper.
    >
    >
    >
    > "As a general rule the able candidates are ruled out by their views on Brexit while the candidates with appropriate views on Brexit are ruled out by their ability."
    >
    >
    >
    > Priceless.
    >
    > PB is very lucky to have Alastair, Cyclefree, and David Herdson regularly writing pieces that are worthy of national newspaper comment and analysis sections. <

    ++++++



    You are.

    Are you paying them yet?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 14,383
    Andrea Leadson comes out of Alastair's rundown quite well?


    "Andrea Leadsom – one of a very select group of politicians whose reputation has been enhanced in this government. If she runs she should be a very serious candidate indeed. (27/1)"
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 8,566
    > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
    > Penny Mordaunt should win . Great hair and could have been in a Bond movie , she has a vixenish appeal !
    >
    > She looks OK :blush:

    Anyone in a skirt Sunil?

    :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 74,737
    Byronic said:

    > @TheScreamingEagles said:

    > Article of the year. Worthy of a national newspaper.

    >

    >

    >

    > "As a general rule the able candidates are ruled out by their views on Brexit while the candidates with appropriate views on Brexit are ruled out by their ability."

    >

    >

    >

    > Priceless.

    >

    > PB is very lucky to have Alastair, Cyclefree, and David Herdson regularly writing pieces that are worthy of national newspaper comment and analysis sections. <



    ++++++







    You are.



    Are you paying them yet?

    No, they do it for the honour of being published on PB.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,472
    edited May 15
    > @Byronic said:
    > > @kle4 said:
    >
    > >
    > > That's what it boils down to for me - people are perfectly capable of being shit or great whether they are parents or not. Even if one thinks it more likely that one will have the necessary qualities as a result of being a parent since it is demonstrably not essential or automatic as a result of being a parent, I think it unnecessary to speculate as to that being the reason or even a reason for May being crap. <
    >
    > +++++
    >
    > Fair enough. I do see how my remarks could appear nasty, even inhumane. Which is why they were heavily caveated.
    >
    > But put it this way: if T May was the mother of four boisterous kids - from a giggly infant to reasonably adjusted teens, with a bit of rebellion - then, 1. it would make her more relatable (and popular), 2, it would show she's a decent mother, and that does mean something (however unfairly)
    >
    > On the other hand, recent prime ministers have all had kids, from Blair to Brown to Cameron, and they've all been pretty disastrous, so maybe this is truly meaningless (beyond the ability to attract votes as an ordinary family man or woman)
    >

    ------------------
    I don't think you were being nasty, it's a debate, and your view is one plenty of people will share either completely or in part - there's a reason that people tend to think 'good family man/woman, good family values' is a selling point. I can even see the qualities of a good parent which would be a positive thing to see . But as you note with PMs with kids it is no guarantee - I would tend to think that the kind of people who are capable of becoming PM are exceptional enough (not necessarily exceptionally good, just exceptional in being different to most people in the country) that any general benefit one might think there would be from being a parent would be eclipsed by natural political skills that are needed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 43,472
    > @TheScreamingEagles said:
    > > @TheScreamingEagles said:
    >
    > > Article of the year. Worthy of a national newspaper.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > "As a general rule the able candidates are ruled out by their views on Brexit while the candidates with appropriate views on Brexit are ruled out by their ability."
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Priceless.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > PB is very lucky to have Alastair, Cyclefree, and David Herdson regularly writing pieces that are worthy of national newspaper comment and analysis sections. <
    >
    >
    >
    > ++++++
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > You are.
    >
    >
    >
    > Are you paying them yet?
    >
    > No, they do it for the honour of being published on PB.

    Tis the dream of us all.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 54,000
    > @GIN1138 said:
    > Andrea Leadson comes out of Alastair's rundown quite well?
    >
    >
    > "Andrea Leadsom – one of a very select group of politicians whose reputation has been enhanced in this government. If she runs she should be a very serious candidate indeed. (27/1)"

    Very serious indeed, certainly about jelly babies

  • ByronicByronic Posts: 243
    > @TheScreamingEagles said:

    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > You are.
    >
    >
    >
    > Are you paying them yet?
    >
    > No, they do it for the honour of being published on PB. <

    +++++++

    "Only a fool would write for anything but money" - Dr Johnson
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 29,880
    Foxy said:

    > @Sunil_Prasannan said:

    > Penny Mordaunt should win . Great hair and could have been in a Bond movie , she has a vixenish appeal !

    >

    > She looks OK :blush:



    Anyone in a skirt Sunil?



    :)

    Well, unlike Heidi, she's still a Tory :innocent:
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 3,164
    It would be Absolutely Awesome if absolutely all of them ran. A long protracted blood letting where a series of indicative votes slowly whittles down the list from massive to merely absurd is absolutely in the interests of the Conservative Party
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 54,000
    > @Byronic said:
    > > @kle4 said:
    >
    > >
    > > That's what it boils down to for me - people are perfectly capable of being shit or great whether they are parents or not. Even if one thinks it more likely that one will have the necessary qualities as a result of being a parent since it is demonstrably not essential or automatic as a result of being a parent, I think it unnecessary to speculate as to that being the reason or even a reason for May being crap. <
    >
    > +++++
    >
    > Fair enough. I do see how my remarks could appear nasty, even inhumane. Which is why they were heavily caveated.
    >
    > But put it this way: if T May was the mother of four boisterous kids - from a giggly infant to reasonably adjusted teens, with a bit of rebellion - then, 1. it would make her more relatable (and popular), 2, it would show she's a decent mother, and that does mean something (however unfairly)
    >
    > On the other hand, recent prime ministers have all had kids, from Blair to Brown to Cameron, and they've all been pretty disastrous, so maybe this is truly meaningless (beyond the ability to attract votes as an ordinary family man or woman)
    >

    Heath was childless and had a very similar personality to May.

    Merkel and Sturgeon and Modi are also childless but it does not seem to have held them back, though Julia Gillard in Australia had some very cruel attacks because of her lack of children and hairdresser boyfriend
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 105
    > @AlastairMeeks said:
    > > @StuartDickson said:
    > > No Ruth?
    >
    > Dealt with last year:
    >
    > http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/17/ruthless-people-the-conservatives-lose-a-leadership-contender/

    - “... a further awkward question, however: if she is not up to being Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, why does she think she is up to being Scotland’s First Minister? She had better have a clear answer.“

    Still waiting on that front.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 27,943
    > @HYUFD said:
    > Very serious indeed, certainly about jelly babies
    >

    She seems to like the idea of biting off their heads.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 29,880
    edited May 15
    HYUFD said:

    > @GIN1138 said:

    > Andrea Leadson comes out of Alastair's rundown quite well?

    >

    >

    > "Andrea Leadsom – one of a very select group of politicians whose reputation has been enhanced in this government. If she runs she should be a very serious candidate indeed. (27/1)"



    Very serious indeed, certainly about jelly babies



    Q. How do you make Jelly Babies?

    A.
    image
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 27,943

    It would be Absolutely Awesome if absolutely all of them ran. A long protracted blood letting where a series of indicative votes slowly whittles down the list from massive to merely absurd is absolutely in the interests of the Conservative Party

    It would be funny if the indicative votes all failed and May had to carry on. We could all be here in 2025, still looking for someone to take the job of PM off her hands.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 1,332
    > @HYUFD said:
    > > @GIN1138 said:
    > > Andrea Leadson comes out of Alastair's rundown quite well?
    > >
    > >
    > > "Andrea Leadsom – one of a very select group of politicians whose reputation has been enhanced in this government. If she runs she should be a very serious candidate indeed. (27/1)"
    >
    > Very serious indeed, certainly about jelly babies
    >
    >

    Not the first candidate to spring to mind when talking about baby eating Tories!
This discussion has been closed.