Feels like it’s going to be hard for any new entrants to enter the race now, when some of the existing riders are already declaring they’ll be dropping out for the good of the party.
Patel Baker Brady Mordaunt?
Old Lady Brady is the equivalent of Mike Gravel in the 2008 Democrat primary.
Think it would be completely appropriate (bearing in mind the campaign) if we handed our seat to the Turks. That is - we stay in until they get accepted in.
IF they get accepted:
Turkish membership, pending since the 1980s, is a more contentious issue.[26] Aside from the Cyprus dispute being a long-standing hurdle,[27][28] relations between the EU and Turkey have become strained after several incidents, mostly concerning the 2016 Turkish coup d'état attempt, the Turkish referendum, and the resulting 2016–17 purges in Turkey.[28] This has led to the European Parliament calling for a suspension of membership talks.[29] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union
Most presidents seeking re-election try to time things so that the economy in on the up in the run-up to the next contest. Trump is doing the opposite:
Who will Stephen Metcalfe, Julian Knight and Colin Clark all support now ?
And me. A pity, but clearly the votes weren't there, and he's probably smart to be the first to withdraw. Potentially good news for Mordaunt, who's diving in a similar pool.
I will pay the same for my flat as the couple next to me who earn half as much and the man on the top floor that earns twice as much?"
Well they would in the example I gave of the £70 million apartment owner only paying £1,200 a year in council tax in Westminster?
Depends if you believe that someone who earns £30k a year but owns a £2 million house (perhaps inherited or bought decades ago) is poorer than someone who earns £50k a year and rents a one bed flat? A not uncommon generational divide now in London.
It is effectively a tax on wealth as its a tax on ownership linked to property values and would seek to address the inefficient use of housing - as there would be a meaningful increase in taxation in someone living on their own in a four bed house in Richmond or Primrose Hill. If they can't afford it they might be forced to think about all those spare beds they don't need - a bit you might say like the bedroom tax on the poor?
The elderly living in inner London could of course defer any charge against their estate - so they can carry on living in their home. And their 65 year old kids would bear the cost when they inherit - which seems perfectly fine to me in a time when we have been cutting benefits to the very poorest and disabled and cannot afford to properly fund social care.
Time we recognised that the biggest contributor to wealth these days in the UK is not going out and working - but property ownership and the huge increase housing assets have seen in the last 20 years!
Another Richard and I called this a while back, cancel HS2 now.
Ministers are looking to save billions on the plan put forward for road and rail transport in the north of England by axing Liverpool’s new railway line to HS2.
Money for a £7bn line linking Liverpool to the HS2 high-speed railway was supposed to have been “in the bag” before October’s budget last year, only for the Treasury to carry out a last minute U-turn.
Steve Rotheram, metro mayor of the Liverpool City Region, has revealed the government’s preferred option is to connect Liverpool to HS2 via an existing freight line. “It’s not good enough Liverpool gets second-best while London gets what it wants with Crossrail and Crossrail 2,” he said. “This decision can’t be taken in a room in Whitehall.”
I can only hope you're read into it a little more deeply than Another_Richard ...
You are aware that if HS2 gets cancelled, the north doesn't automagically get the money?
As for the substance of the story: AIUI Liverpool wasn't due to get a dedicated HS line as part of the HS2 project - it's a different project, potentially part of the NPR/HS3 concept that is still nebulous.
However, there were several campaigns for a dedicated link line to be added. It looks as though they'll be getting a line, but by using an upgraded freight line instead of a dedicated HS line. Quite how this fits into any potential NPR/HS3 links to Liverpool is anyone's guess.
As a daily commuter on the Northern rail network I'm well aware of what I talk about.
This is all about London getting all the good stuff whilst the peasants oop North get lumbered with pacers because the money keeps on getting cancelled.
From our past conversations, I'd argue that you're not well aware.
It's not about London getting all the good stuff. It really isn't. Unless you now class Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield and Manchester as London ...
Another Richard and I called this a while back, cancel HS2 now.
Ministers are looking to save billions on the plan put forward for road and rail transport in the north of England by axing Liverpool’s new railway line to HS2.
Money for a £7bn line linking Liverpool to the HS2 high-speed railway was supposed to have been “in the bag” before October’s budget last year, only for the Treasury to carry out a last minute U-turn.
Steve Rotheram, metro mayor of the Liverpool City Region, has revealed the government’s preferred option is to connect Liverpool to HS2 via an existing freight line. “It’s not good enough Liverpool gets second-best while London gets what it wants with Crossrail and Crossrail 2,” he said. “This decision can’t be taken in a room in Whitehall.”
I can only hope you're read into it a little more deeply than Another_Richard ...
You are aware that if HS2 gets cancelled, the north doesn't automagically get the money?
As for the substance of the story: AIUI Liverpool wasn't due to get a dedicated HS line as part of the HS2 project - it's a different project, potentially part of the NPR/HS3 concept that is still nebulous.
However, there were several campaigns for a dedicated link line to be added. It looks as though they'll be getting a line, but by using an upgraded freight line instead of a dedicated HS line. Quite how this fits into any potential NPR/HS3 links to Liverpool is anyone's guess.
As a daily commuter on the Northern rail network I'm well aware of what I talk about.
This is all about London getting all the good stuff whilst the peasants oop North get lumbered with pacers because the money keeps on getting cancelled.
From our past conversations, I'd argue that you're not well aware.
It's not about London getting all the good stuff. It really isn't. Unless you now class Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield and Manchester as London ...
There is a three tier system in place:-
London Big cities (Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester) Everyone else...
I will pay the same for my flat as the couple next to me who earn half as much and the man on the top floor that earns twice as much?
"
Well they would in the example I gave of the £70 million apartment owner only paying £1,200 a year in council tax in Westminster?
Depends if you believe that someone who earns £30k a year but owns a £2 million house (perhaps inherited or bought decades ago) is poorer than someone who earns £50k a year and rents a one bed flat? A not uncommon generational divide now in London.
It is effectively a tax on wealth as its a tax on ownership linked to property values and would seek to address the inefficient use of housing - as there would be a meaningful increase in taxation in someone living on their own in a four bed house in Richmond or Primrose Hill. If they can't afford it they might be forced to think about all those spare beds they don't need - a bit you might say like the bedroom tax on the poor?
The elderly living in inner London could of course defer any charge against their estate - so they can carry on living in their home. And their 65 year old kids would bear the cost when they inherit - which seems perfectly fine to me in a time when we have been cutting benefits to the very poorest and disabled and cannot afford to properly fund social care.
Time we recognised that the biggest contributor to wealth these days in the UK is not going out and working - but property ownership and the huge increase housing assets have seen in the last 20 years!
I would be very happy to see the burden of Council tax shift to the owner, as is already the case for HMOs.
I think you and I are debating slightly different points. As I understand your example, the £70m owner gets no more tax because they have hit the effective "cap" of the highest band.
I have no objection to additional bands for £2m+ properties (a sort of mansion tax). Little old ladies are one thing, but £2m is quite another.
I'm just not fully convinced by the rest of the proposals. I don't have a problem with CT being lower in London, as this provides a link to the actual cost of services provided. Plus I am sceptical about constant revaluation, where £10k either way is of constant value.
Well they would in the example I gave of the £70 million apartment owner only paying £1,200 a year in council tax in Westminster?
Depends if you believe that someone who earns £30k a year but owns a £2 million house (perhaps inherited or bought decades ago) is poorer than someone who earns £50k a year and rents a one bed flat? A not uncommon generational divide now in London.
It is effectively a tax on wealth as its a tax on ownership linked to property values and would seek to address the inefficient use of housing - as there would be a meaningful increase in taxation in someone living on their own in a four bed house in Richmond or Primrose Hill. If they can't afford it they might be forced to think about all those spare beds they don't need - a bit you might say like the bedroom tax on the poor?
The elderly living in inner London could of course defer any charge against their estate - so they can carry on living in their home. And their 65 year old kids would bear the cost when they inherit - which seems perfectly fine to me in a time when we have been cutting benefits to the very poorest and disabled and cannot afford to properly fund social care.
Time we recognised that the biggest contributor to wealth these days in the UK is not going out and working - but property ownership and the huge increase housing assets have seen in the last 20 years!
Yes - I think it's a good proposal, and I don't mind the Telegraph etc. getting worked up about it - ideas that basically make sense need some hysterical opposition to get attention. Unlike some countries, social division in Britain is not so much in income as in inherited wealth, and by coincidence property is easier to tax without evasion and, as you say, an objective issue in terms of lack of supply coexisting with underuse.
Anyone got a link to the report? It only seems to have made the news in the telegraph and express for some reason.
Reform of council tax is obviously well overdue, but am a little concerned from what's reported Labour may be shying away from going for a land value tax.
Its essentially abolishing council tax and replacing it with a new tax
paid by homeowners/property owners but not occupiers (i.e. renters) - that would of course require a register of owners making it proportionate to property values - a percentage of the value - rather than the current restrictive bands and updating those regularly having higher rates of tax for higher value properties.
This might get around the nonsense where an eligible bachelor oligarch living in his £80m One Hyde park flat only pays £1,200 a year (including his 25% single person discount!) as the Westminster band H tax is only £1,500 (more than the charge for a typical Band D home in most of England).
Its no wonder London is used for speculative property investment and money laundering with ridiculously low annual tax charges like that!
Of course cue howls of outrage from the Express - cos its so fair that most people in the country pay less council tax than a billionaire oligarch living in an £80 million apartment?
It would probably mean most of the country sees their property tax fall - but inner London owners (where band D charges are the lowest in the country) would quite rightly pay more. And it would shake up the property market too - as there would be a real cost to the inefficient use of housing.
It just requires a government with some guts to do the right thing - as its a very regressive tax currently as the poor pay a far higher proportion of their income now on council tax than the better off. What other tax sees a multi millionaire only paying 3 times the tax in monetary terms as a cleaner who rents on £15k a year?
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
Totally O/T but does anyone know how HMRC works? Yeah, I know, silly question. But I've just done my self assessment and it says I owe what for me is quite a lot, with a previous 'quite a lot' for last year in my coding. However, when I did my self-assessment last January..... really catching up this year ........the computer said I owed about 25% of that, which I paid, and then got a refund of 50% of what I'd paid a couple of weeks ago!
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
The Labour Party should get a clip of you explaining that, so they can put it in their next campaign video.
I would be very happy to see the burden of Council tax shift to the owner, as is already the case for HMOs.
I think you and I are debating slightly different points. As I understand your example, the £70m owner gets no more tax because they have hit the effective "cap" of the highest band.
I have no objection to additional bands for £2m+ properties (a sort of mansion tax). Little old ladies are one thing, but £2m is quite another.
I'm just not fully convinced by the rest of the proposals. I don't have a problem with CT being lower in London, as this provides a link to the actual cost of services provided. Plus I am sceptical about constant revaluation, where £10k either way is of constant value.
But the Labour proposal I believe is to end bands and simply make the tax a percentage of your property value - so there is no upper limit for very expensive properties.
People currently appeal against their theoretical bands based on 1991 values - but will people be so keen to complain that their current house price is assessed as being too high? The psychology on the home owner is quite powerful!
You seem to think council tax levels are linked to levels of services provided - they really aren't on the whole! Inner London boroughs have some of the best and most extensive service levels in England - far better in terms of say social care than most counties. - yet much lower council taxes at Band D. Their ability to do this is because of historic quirks in the funding system going back to the early 1990s, the fact that they generate tens of millions extra in commercial income and parking which is ignored in the grant distribution system and a host of other factors (e.g. an embedded funding system which ignores the fact they are much wealthier than 15 years ago as many of their poor have been forced out to outer London). It isn't all about council tax - there is so much more differential in revenue terms than that!
Its another example of how London is 'under' taxed and over supplied in terms of services in relative terms.
Totally O/T but does anyone know how HMRC works? Yeah, I know, silly question. But I've just done my self assessment and it says I owe what for me is quite a lot, with a previous 'quite a lot' for last year in my coding. However, when I did my self-assessment last January..... really catching up this year ........the computer said I owed about 25% of that, which I paid, and then got a refund of 50% of what I'd paid a couple of weeks ago!
If Mrs J's experience is anything to go by, then the HMRC has invested in the world's best random number generator. And our financial affairs are fairly simple (only one income) ...
Betting post -- lots of activity right now as people withdraw and Boris tightens.
Remember to check both the next PM and next Conservative Leader markets as they can get out of sync. Just now, Jeremy Hunt was a better price for Con Leader, for example.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m.
lol
I've known people fund business development in a similar fashion. Understandable; if that's the system, play it. However, merry-go-rounds have to stop sometime. South Sea Bubbles, Tulips and all that.
Betting post -- lots of activity right now as people withdraw and Boris tightens.
Remember to check both the next PM and next Conservative Leader markets as they can get out of sync. Just now, Jeremy Hunt was a better price for Con Leader, for example.
Only Cleverly has withdrawn unless there is some secret news source I'm unaware of.
Totally O/T but does anyone know how HMRC works? Yeah, I know, silly question. But I've just done my self assessment and it says I owe what for me is quite a lot, with a previous 'quite a lot' for last year in my coding. However, when I did my self-assessment last January..... really catching up this year ........the computer said I owed about 25% of that, which I paid, and then got a refund of 50% of what I'd paid a couple of weeks ago!
If Mrs J's experience is anything to go by, then the HMRC has invested in the world's best random number generator. And our financial affairs are fairly simple (only one income) ...
Sounds about right. Experience similar. Webchat line doesn't work either.
All our recent dealings with HMRC feel like an enormous black hole. What proportion of the staff there is off with stress related sickness - the backlog must be gargantuan.
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
That shows I'm working class, my parents and grandma only gave me £150k to help buy and furnish my first house.
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
The Labour Party should get a clip of you explaining that, so they can put it in their next campaign video.
I didn’t expect much sympathy!
The point is I only ever invested £30k of equity in property. My Dad paid the stamp duty so that I could move near my daughters school.
Betting post -- lots of activity right now as people withdraw and Boris tightens.
Remember to check both the next PM and next Conservative Leader markets as they can get out of sync. Just now, Jeremy Hunt was a better price for Con Leader, for example.
Only Cleverly has withdrawn unless there is some secret news source I'm unaware of.
I think there is some news we aren't aware of. Maybe a 1922 rule change in the offing?
The detailed findings are interesting. For instance, roughly as many Remainers identify with Europe as identify with Britain or their home country (England/Scotland etc.), 56-60% in each case. I think that European identity is a lot higher than in pre-referendum days - the issue has brought out a lot of inner Europeanism.
Few people identify with "the Western world" though a quarter of Remainers identify with "the global community", which is us Guardianistas in a nutshell.
Anyone got a link to the report? It only seems to have made the news in the telegraph and express for some reason.
Reform of council tax is obviously well overdue, but am a little concerned from what's reported Labour may be shying away from going for a land value tax.
Its essentially abolishing council tax and replacing it with a new tax
paid by homeowners/property owners but not occupiers (i.e. renters) - that would of course require a register of owners making it proportionate to property values - a percentage of the value - rather than the current restrictive bands and updating those regularly having higher rates of tax for higher value properties.
This might get around the nonsense where an eligible bachelor oligarch living in his £80m One Hyde park flat only pays £1,200 a year (including his 25% single person discount!) as the Westminster band H tax is only £1,500 (more than the charge for a typical Band D home in most of England).
Its no wonder London is used for speculative property investment and money laundering with ridiculously low annual tax charges like that!
Of course cue howls of outrage from the Express - cos its so fair that most people in the country pay less council tax than a billionaire oligarch living in an £80 million apartment?
It would probably mean most of the country sees their property tax fall - but inner London owners (where band D charges are the lowest in the country) would quite rightly pay more. And it would shake up the property market too - as there would be a real cost to the inefficient use of housing.
It just requires a government with some guts to do the right thing - as its a very regressive tax currently as the poor pay a far higher proportion of their income now on council tax than the better off. What other tax sees a multi millionaire only paying 3 times the tax in monetary terms as a cleaner who rents on £15k a year?
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
So in practice if the tax came in you would have move to a smaller/cheaper house? And the house you are living in would either fall in value or perhaps be converted into multiple homes?
Betting post -- lots of activity right now as people withdraw and Boris tightens.
Remember to check both the next PM and next Conservative Leader markets as they can get out of sync. Just now, Jeremy Hunt was a better price for Con Leader, for example.
Only Cleverly has withdrawn unless there is some secret news source I'm unaware of.
I think there is some news we aren't aware of. Maybe a 1922 rule change in the offing?
Apparently it is a year on year comparison against a 4.1% rise from the same period a year ago when I expect most people were reasonably confident we were leaving the EU. So its a fall compared to a record rise 12 months ago?...
"The consortium pointed out that the sales drop came against a 4.1% rise in the same period last year - a record rise in itself."
So it seems when people thought we were definitely leaving a year ago retail sales were much stronger. And the month after people discovered we weren't - there was a general weakening in sales.
Perhaps leave voters were so down compared to a year ago at the news we hadn't left the EU they didn't have the enthusiasm to go out shopping?
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
The Labour Party should get a clip of you explaining that, so they can put it in their next campaign video.
I didn’t expect much sympathy!
The point is I only ever invested £30k of equity in property. My Dad paid the stamp duty so that I could move near my daughters school.
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
Don’t you own property in California? How much does that cost annually in tax (or would the same property cost if it were there)?
He really is a grade A muppet. We must ignore parliament (elected after the referendum to implement the referendum result as people wanted) to implement an insane version of the referendum result. As for his other policies give me strength so I can stop laughing
Anyone got a link to the report? It only seems to have made the news in the telegraph and express for some reason.
Reform of council tax is obviously well overdue, but am a little concerned from what's reported Labour may be shying away from going for a land value tax.
This might get around the nonsense where an eligible bachelor oligarch living in his £80m One Hyde park flat only pays £1,200 a year (including his 25% single person discount!) as the Westminster band H tax is only £1,500 (more than the charge for a typical Band D home in most of England).
Its no wonder London is used for speculative property investment and money laundering with ridiculously low annual tax charges like that!
Of course cue howls of outrage from the Express - cos its so fair that most people in the country pay less council tax than a billionaire oligarch living in an £80 million apartment?
It would probably mean most of the country sees their property tax fall - but inner London owners (where band D charges are the lowest in the country) would quite rightly pay more. And it would shake up the property market too - as there would be a real cost to the inefficient use of housing.
It just requires a government with some guts to do the right thing - as its a very regressive tax currently as the poor pay a far higher proportion of their income now on council tax than the better off. What other tax sees a multi millionaire only paying 3 times the tax in monetary terms as a cleaner who rents on £15k a year?
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £x (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
So in practice if the tax came in you would have move to a smaller/cheaper house? And the house you are living in would either fall in value or perhaps be converted into multiple homes?
It’s a 3 bedroom semi with a modest garden - it’s location (close to my daughter’s school) is why it has a silly valuation.
So yes, the price would fall about 15% for every 1% of tax, and I’d have to move somewhere a lot further away (and probably move schools)
I actually think a % tax rate is a reasonably sensible idea - provided it replaces other taxes - but needs to be phased in over quite a long period of time.
Actually I think Corbyn's proposal of reintroducing the old Rates is not a bad one, although the transition to get there would be electorally brave. Also it should be a flat rate, not a percentage increasing with value, which is distorting.
I do like the pretence that for rented property it would be owners not renters who pay it. I suppose that will fool some people.
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
The Labour Party should get a clip of you explaining that, so they can put it in their next campaign video.
I didn’t expect much sympathy!
The point is I only ever invested £30k of equity in property. My Dad paid the stamp duty so that I could move near my daughters school.
Actually I think Corbyn's proposal of reintroducing the old Rates is not a bad one, although the transition to get there would be electorally brave. Also it should be a flat rate, not a percentage increasing with value, which is distorting.
I do like the pretence that for rented property it would be owners not renters who pay it. I suppose that will fool some people.
That's how it works in Northern Ireland if the value of the property is less than £150,000. It seems to work there....
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
Don’t you own property in California? How much does that cost annually in tax (or would the same property cost if it were there)?
I have a 3 bedroom house there - it’s 1.17% annually. But don’t forget that house prices are a lot cheaper there and the tax has been there a long time so prices reflect it already.
If there had been a 1% tax on my current house it would have either been cheap enough or - more likely - I couldn’t have afforded it and would have bought elsewhere.
It’s a 3 bedroom semi with a modest garden - it’s location (close to my daughter’s school) is why it has a silly valuation.
So yes, the price would fall about 15% for every 1% of tax, and I’d have to move somewhere a lot further away (and probably move schools)
I actually think a % tax rate is a reasonably sensible idea - provided it replaces other taxes - but needs to be phased in over quite a long period of time.
I can see how that would be frustrating. I agree phasing it in makes a lot of sense, as does allowing people to defer the tax until they sell.
The intention is to replace council tax I believe.
It’s a 3 bedroom semi with a modest garden - it’s location (close to my daughter’s school) is why it has a silly valuation.
So yes, the price would fall about 15% for every 1% of tax, and I’d have to move somewhere a lot further away (and probably move schools)
I actually think a % tax rate is a reasonably sensible idea - provided it replaces other taxes - but needs to be phased in over quite a long period of time.
The curious thing will be how do they handle differences in prices between regions. Round my neck of the woods a decent 4 bedroom house is £200,000 say, down in Buckinghamshire it would be £800,000 but both would currently be council band D and pay the same amount.
It’s a 3 bedroom semi with a modest garden - it’s location (close to my daughter’s school) is why it has a silly valuation.
So yes, the price would fall about 15% for every 1% of tax, and I’d have to move somewhere a lot further away (and probably move schools)
I actually think a % tax rate is a reasonably sensible idea - provided it replaces other taxes - but needs to be phased in over quite a long period of time.
I can see how that would be frustrating. I agree phasing it in makes a lot of sense, as does allowing people to defer the tax until they sell.
The intention is to replace council tax I believe.
I think that’s unambitious.
I forget the numbers (post at length in the past) but the value of U.K. retail propert is about £7trn. At 1% that’s £70bn of new taxes - you should use that to eliminate / reduce a whole lot of other, more economically damaging, taxes not just council tax.
Actually I think Corbyn's proposal of reintroducing the old Rates is not a bad one, although the transition to get there would be electorally brave. Also it should be a flat rate, not a percentage increasing with value, which is distorting.
I do like the pretence that for rented property it would be owners not renters who pay it. I suppose that will fool some people.
It's initially electorally brave. But it should be possible to design the policy so that most people pay much less in council tax/housing tax. That should make it electorally popular in the longer term.
Semenya wins appeal. Good for her, but the definition of female is going to be needed to be tightened up now. Y Chromosone = ineligible.
I hate to point this out, but IIRC Caster Semenya has a Y chromosome (quite a few, in fact). What she doesn't have (and never has had) is a penis. Was it that that you were thinking of?
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
The Labour Party should get a clip of you explaining that, so they can put it in their next campaign video.
I didn’t expect much sympathy!
The point is I only ever invested £30k of equity in property. My Dad paid the stamp duty so that I could move near my daughters school.
The sort of thing we grandparents tend to do!
Absolutely - very generous of him.
Very generous or very stupid? Are you sure he's a banker?
He could have bought your daughter her own personal school and still saved a million. If your daughter does, say, 9 GCSE subjects for 5 years, and a teacher costs £50,000 a year, and then she does 3 A-levels for 2 years, that comes to £3.5 million which is a million less than the new house.
This is perhaps equally concerning: https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/no-sweet-spot-for-spore-in-us-china-tensions ...Last year, China consumed about US$155 billion worth of semiconductors, around 40 per cent of global consumption. But only 5 per cent to 6 per cent was produced in China. It is likely that a large percentage of what was made locally was by foreign manufacturers located in China but vulnerable to US restrictions.
Globally, high-end chip design and manufacture is dominated by just three companies: Taiwan Semiconductor, Samsung and Intel. The last is an American company. The other two are from countries highly dependent on the US for their security....
US/China conflict is slowly ratcheting up, and given the principals involved, mistakes could very easily happen.
It’s a 3 bedroom semi with a modest garden - it’s location (close to my daughter’s school) is why it has a silly valuation.
So yes, the price would fall about 15% for every 1% of tax, and I’d have to move somewhere a lot further away (and probably move schools)
I actually think a % tax rate is a reasonably sensible idea - provided it replaces other taxes - but needs to be phased in over quite a long period of time.
The curious thing will be how do they handle differences in prices between regions. Round my neck of the woods a decent 4 bedroom house is £200,000 say, down in Buckinghamshire it would be £800,000 but both would currently be council band D and pay the same amount.
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
The Labour Party should get a clip of you explaining that, so they can put it in their next campaign video.
I didn’t expect much sympathy!
The point is I only ever invested £30k of equity in property. My Dad paid the stamp duty so that I could move near my daughters school.
The sort of thing we grandparents tend to do!
Absolutely - very generous of him.
Very generous or very stupid? Are you sure he's a banker?
He could have bought your daughter her own personal school and still saved a million. If your daughter does, say, 9 GCSE subjects for 5 years, and a teacher costs £50,000 a year, and then she does 3 A-levels for 2 years, that comes to £3.5 million which is a million less than the new house.
I think the good news for Charles, to stop the pathos completely overwhelming us, is that he may have an asset at the end of this.
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
The Labour Party should get a clip of you explaining that, so they can put it in their next campaign video.
I didn’t expect much sympathy!
The point is I only ever invested £30k of equity in property. My Dad paid the stamp duty so that I could move near my daughters school.
The sort of thing we grandparents tend to do!
Absolutely - very generous of him.
Very generous or very stupid? Are you sure he's a banker?
He could have bought your daughter her own personal school and still saved a million. If your daughter does, say, 9 GCSE subjects for 5 years, and a teacher costs £50,000 a year, and then she does 3 A-levels for 2 years, that comes to £3.5 million which is a million less than the new house.
Semenya wins appeal. Good for her, but the definition of female is going to be needed to be tightened up now. Y Chromosone = ineligible.
I hate to point this out, but IIRC Caster Semenya has a Y chromosome (quite a few, in fact). What she doesn't have (and never has had) is a penis. Was it that that you were thinking of?
I didn't actually realise she had a Y chromosone ! No, I'm specifically putting it that a Y chromosone should mean ineligibility for female track events.
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
The Labour Party should get a clip of you explaining that, so they can put it in their next campaign video.
I didn’t expect much sympathy!
The point is I only ever invested £30k of equity in property. My Dad paid the stamp duty so that I could move near my daughters school.
The sort of thing we grandparents tend to do!
Absolutely - very generous of him.
Your turn will come, my friend, your turn will come.
It's initially electorally brave. But it should be possible to design the policy so that most people pay much less in council tax/housing tax. That should make it electorally popular in the longer term.
The problem is that those getting a saving (probably a small saving in practice) won't be very grateful but the smaller number getting a massive hit will make a lot of noise. The papers will be full of horror stories of old ladies losing the homes they've lived in for 50 years etc etc. It's a really difficult thing to do - which is why we haven't even had what should be an uncontroversial updating of the council tax bands.
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
The Labour Party should get a clip of you explaining that, so they can put it in their next campaign video.
I didn’t expect much sympathy!
The point is I only ever invested £30k of equity in property. My Dad paid the stamp duty so that I could move near my daughters school.
The sort of thing we grandparents tend to do!
Absolutely - very generous of him.
Very generous or very stupid? Are you sure he's a banker?
He could have bought your daughter her own personal school and still saved a million. If your daughter does, say, 9 GCSE subjects for 5 years, and a teacher costs £50,000 a year, and then she does 3 A-levels for 2 years, that comes to £3.5 million which is a million less than the new house.
She was 4...
(And he gave me £0.5m, offset against any future inheritance)
Incredible. The Tory party is losing it completely. And this from one of its elder statesmen. Bonkers. It is like they are willing the end...
All Redwood is suggesting is that the new PM should talk to Farage - given his party won the European elections - not lead the negotiations but talk to him. I would hope the new PM would talk to all major parties (according to recent elections and polling) - particularly those who want us to leave the EU.
The joke would be talking to the leader of a party on 1% in the polls who was elected as a Tory but didn't have the guts to put their change of status to their voters in a by election.
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
The Labour Party should get a clip of you explaining that, so they can put it in their next campaign video.
I didn’t expect much sympathy!
The point is I only ever invested £30k of equity in property. My Dad paid the stamp duty so that I could move near my daughters school.
The sort of thing we grandparents tend to do!
Absolutely - very generous of him.
Your turn will come, my friend, your turn will come.
I hope so. It would mean my daughter has a family, that I’ve done well enough in life to help her, and that we’re still talking to each other!
This looks like good news, and a welcome boost for the LibDems. Also good news that the Labour dinosaur contingent is staying away. What future they would have with Soubry in plowing their own furrow isn’t clear; rather reminiscent of the ‘continuing’ SDP, waiting for the Loonies to put them out of their misery.
The sad bit is that their botched attempt to reshape politics will make it considerably more difficult for future parliamentarians to consider doing the same. Perhaps this reduces the chance of a subsequent major split in either Labour or Tory over the outcome of Brexit?
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
This illustrates how good Corbyn's proposal is.
Why do you think no Government (of any stripe) has touched local taxation since the poll tax?
If there’s one thing that makes British voters lose their shit it’s going after their houses.
Comments
https://twitter.com/gordonguthrie/status/1135857223035437056
Turkish membership, pending since the 1980s, is a more contentious issue.[26] Aside from the Cyprus dispute being a long-standing hurdle,[27][28] relations between the EU and Turkey have become strained after several incidents, mostly concerning the 2016 Turkish coup d'état attempt, the Turkish referendum, and the resulting 2016–17 purges in Turkey.[28] This has led to the European Parliament calling for a suspension of membership talks.[29]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union
https://www.hl.co.uk/news/2019/6/4/economists-fear-a-2020-us-recession-surge
Serbia and Montenegro are likely to be the next countries to enter the EU - "by 2025".
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/06/mordaunt-leads-the-pack-in-our-latest-cabinet-league-table.html
I will pay the same for my flat as the couple next to me who earn half as much and the man on the top floor that earns twice as much?"
Well they would in the example I gave of the £70 million apartment owner only paying £1,200 a year in council tax in Westminster?
Depends if you believe that someone who earns £30k a year but owns a £2 million house (perhaps inherited or bought decades ago) is poorer than someone who earns £50k a year and rents a one bed flat? A not uncommon generational divide now in London.
It is effectively a tax on wealth as its a tax on ownership linked to property values and would seek to address the inefficient use of housing - as there would be a meaningful increase in taxation in someone living on their own in a four bed house in Richmond or Primrose Hill. If they can't afford it they might be forced to think about all those spare beds they don't need - a bit you might say like the bedroom tax on the poor?
The elderly living in inner London could of course defer any charge against their estate - so they can carry on living in their home. And their 65 year old kids would bear the cost when they inherit - which seems perfectly fine to me in a time when we have been cutting benefits to the very poorest and disabled and cannot afford to properly fund social care.
Time we recognised that the biggest contributor to wealth these days in the UK is not going out and working - but property ownership and the huge increase housing assets have seen in the last 20 years!
...to be replaced by a new crop of no-marks, probably.
It's not about London getting all the good stuff. It really isn't. Unless you now class Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield and Manchester as London ...
London
Big cities (Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester)
Everyone else...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48512697
A big mistake IMO.
I think you and I are debating slightly different points. As I understand your example, the £70m owner gets no more tax because they have hit the effective "cap" of the highest band.
I have no objection to additional bands for £2m+ properties (a sort of mansion tax). Little old ladies are one thing, but £2m is quite another.
I'm just not fully convinced by the rest of the proposals. I don't have a problem with CT being lower in London, as this provides a link to the actual cost of services provided. Plus I am sceptical about constant revaluation, where £10k either way is of constant value.
Theresa May scored -68.7, and Chris Grayling -72.4.
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/06/mordaunt-leads-the-pack-in-our-latest-cabinet-league-table.html
In the late 90s I was fortunate to buy my first flat with a chunky mortgage. I have made a couple of moves but have always lived in my flat and owned no other property in the U.K.
With some help from my Dad I bought my last house for about £4.5m (I can feel the sympathy already). Virtually all of the equity I put in was paper gains on previous properties.
Assuming a 1% tax I would be charged almost half my post-tax income in new taxes. That simply isn’t affordable.
People currently appeal against their theoretical bands based on 1991 values - but will people be so keen to complain that their current house price is assessed as being too high? The psychology on the home owner is quite powerful!
You seem to think council tax levels are linked to levels of services provided - they really aren't on the whole! Inner London boroughs have some of the best and most extensive service levels in England - far better in terms of say social care than most counties. - yet much lower council taxes at Band D. Their ability to do this is because of historic quirks in the funding system going back to the early 1990s, the fact that they generate tens of millions extra in commercial income and parking which is ignored in the grant distribution system and a host of other factors (e.g. an embedded funding system which ignores the fact they are much wealthier than 15 years ago as many of their poor have been forced out to outer London). It isn't all about council tax - there is so much more differential in revenue terms than that!
Its another example of how London is 'under' taxed and over supplied in terms of services in relative terms.
Remember to check both the next PM and next Conservative Leader markets as they can get out of sync. Just now, Jeremy Hunt was a better price for Con Leader, for example.
However, merry-go-rounds have to stop sometime. South Sea Bubbles, Tulips and all that.
The point is I only ever invested £30k of equity in property. My Dad paid the stamp duty so that I could move near my daughters school.
Few people identify with "the Western world" though a quarter of Remainers identify with "the global community", which is us Guardianistas in a nutshell.
Surely our already vibrant pig jizz sector is going to fly (so to speak)?
https://tinyurl.com/y2zfuhwn
https://twitter.com/CorbynistaEdith/status/1135865136311406592
"The consortium pointed out that the sales drop came against a 4.1% rise in the same period last year - a record rise in itself."
So it seems when people thought we were definitely leaving a year ago retail sales were much stronger. And the month after people discovered we weren't - there was a general weakening in sales.
Perhaps leave voters were so down compared to a year ago at the news we hadn't left the EU they didn't have the enthusiasm to go out shopping?
As for his other policies give me strength so I can stop laughing
So yes, the price would fall about 15% for every 1% of tax, and I’d have to move somewhere a lot further away (and probably move schools)
I actually think a % tax rate is a reasonably sensible idea - provided it replaces other taxes - but needs to be phased in over quite a long period of time.
I do like the pretence that for rented property it would be owners not renters who pay it. I suppose that will fool some people.
So her implied odds of making the final two are nuts.
If there had been a 1% tax on my current house it would have either been cheap enough or - more likely - I couldn’t have afforded it and would have bought elsewhere.
The intention is to replace council tax I believe.
In other news, many of Boeing's 737 Max may have faulty wing parts:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48503610
Worse, this also afflicts many of the old 737NG planes, that have not been grounded.
I forget the numbers (post at length in the past) but the value of U.K. retail propert is about £7trn. At 1% that’s £70bn of new taxes - you should use that to eliminate / reduce a whole lot of other, more economically damaging, taxes not just council tax.
But it should be possible to design the policy so that most people pay much less in council tax/housing tax. That should make it electorally popular in the longer term.
He could have bought your daughter her own personal school and still saved a million. If your daughter does, say, 9 GCSE subjects for 5 years, and a teacher costs £50,000 a year, and then she does 3 A-levels for 2 years, that comes to £3.5 million which is a million less than the new house.
https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/no-sweet-spot-for-spore-in-us-china-tensions
...Last year, China consumed about US$155 billion worth of semiconductors, around 40 per cent of global consumption. But only 5 per cent to 6 per cent was produced in China. It is likely that a large percentage of what was made locally was by foreign manufacturers located in China but vulnerable to US restrictions.
Globally, high-end chip design and manufacture is dominated by just three companies: Taiwan Semiconductor, Samsung and Intel. The last is an American company. The other two are from countries highly dependent on the US for their security....
US/China conflict is slowly ratcheting up, and given the principals involved, mistakes could very easily happen.
(And he gave me £0.5m, offset against any future inheritance)
The joke would be talking to the leader of a party on 1% in the polls who was elected as a Tory but didn't have the guts to put their change of status to their voters in a by election.
I wish she’d hurry up and quit. I’m more exposed on her than the core of Chernobyl reactor four in May 1986.
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1135866033779159040
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1135866494959673345
The sad bit is that their botched attempt to reshape politics will make it considerably more difficult for future parliamentarians to consider doing the same. Perhaps this reduces the chance of a subsequent major split in either Labour or Tory over the outcome of Brexit?
If there’s one thing that makes British voters lose their shit it’s going after their houses.