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  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    isam said:

    Scott_P said:
    Might make him look like the outsider that the Big Bad Establishment want to silence... money couldn’t buy it
    As shown in the next tweet

    https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1135903122403069952
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917
    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Much like how Corbyn should respect the position of POTUS? Or was he too busy on his allotment to go to the banquet?

    Two wrongs don't make a right. Not in my book.

    And this was more appropriate than a fancy dinner. Could have been a serious exchange of views.

    Chance for Trump to learn something. Maybe that's why he flunked it.
    @kinabalu

    Today is the 30th anniversary of Tiananmen Square.

    Corbyn was perfectly OK with attending the state banquet when the Chinese premier visited in 2015.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    "Now we live in rather interesting times and it is possible, I’ve asked for odds to be put up on Chuka Umunna, Sarah Wollaston, and Heidi Allen to be added to the list to succeed Sir Vince Cable, the latter two have always seemed to me to be closer to the Lib Dems than the Conservative Party long before they defected to Change UK."

    This is just complete fantasy.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,232
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Big moment . Trump admits the NHS is on the table in any trade deal.

    Oh dear !

    Has Donald just killed Brexit stone dead? The US-UK trade deal was the last rusty nail for the Leavers to hang their coat on. Donald has just toxified it.
    Exactly . The NHS is a red line even for Leavers .
    I wonder if crafty old Theresa intended this all along when she arranged Donald's visit. Boris will now have to choose between delivering Brexit or keeping the NHS.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    brendan16 said:

    TGOHF said:

    nico67 said:

    Big moment . Trump admits the NHS is on the table in any trade deal.

    Oh dear !

    You mean - the NHS might start using American drugs and American equipment ?

    OMG !

    And British companies can do the same in return - or no deal?

    As long as the NHS remains free at the point of use I don't really care how its run ultimately - private companies have always supported the NHS and invented drugs used in the NHS. Outcomes should be what matters - not inputs.
    The American drug companies hate the NHS because their buying power drives down prices unlike in the states where thousands of entities have no bargaining power so the drug companies charge what they like.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Big moment . Trump admits the NHS is on the table in any trade deal.

    Oh dear !

    Has Donald just killed Brexit stone dead? The US-UK trade deal was the last rusty nail for the Leavers to hang their coat on. Donald has just toxified it.
    Exactly . The NHS is a red line even for Leavers .
    What parts of the NHS are you worried about ?

    Coca Cola in the canteen ?

    Apple Ipads for doctors ?

    Come on - what USA input would ruin it for you ?

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited June 2019
    Scott_P said:
    Could there be a legal challenge to that? Surely MPs are not obliged to declare their voting intentions at all. I do not recall long lists of MPs supporting particular candidates in the Leadership elections of 1975 and 1990 - indeed when Anthony Meyer challenged Thatcher in 1989 his sponsors remained anonymous.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    Brom said:

    That's pretty funny that Corbyn got snubbed though. For all the Labour pontificating turns out they actually wanted to meet Trump.

    The position was always that they would not be doing the pomp but would be happy with a meeting.

    Suspect they are pleased enough that it won't happen though.

    Would hardly have been a pleasant experience for Jez.
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300

    Scott_P said:
    Whilst I can understand why they are doing this, I am never keen on changing the rules part-way through a process. I know it hasn't officially started - but effectively it has.

    I would have just moved from 2 votes per week to at least 3 if not 4.
    As Guido's list currently stands, that first requirement immediately whittles the list down to six - BoJo, Gove, Hunt, Raab, Javid, Mancock*.

    (* I hope this to gain some currency given the recent trend for combining first and surnames into one handy word)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    nichomar said:

    brendan16 said:

    TGOHF said:

    nico67 said:

    Big moment . Trump admits the NHS is on the table in any trade deal.

    Oh dear !

    You mean - the NHS might start using American drugs and American equipment ?

    OMG !

    And British companies can do the same in return - or no deal?

    As long as the NHS remains free at the point of use I don't really care how its run ultimately - private companies have always supported the NHS and invented drugs used in the NHS. Outcomes should be what matters - not inputs.
    The American drug companies hate the NHS because their buying power drives down prices unlike in the states where thousands of entities have no bargaining power so the drug companies charge what they like.
    So you are saying the NHS already buys drugs from the USA ?

    Good god - we can't let that happen..



  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300
    justin124 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Could there be a legal challenge to that? Surely MPs are not obliged to declare their voting intentions at all. I do not recall long list of MPs supporting particular candidates in the Leadership elections of 1975 and 1990 - indeed when Anthony Meyer challenged Thatcher in 1989 his sponsors remained anonymous.
    Voting intentions no, but nominations - which these effectively are - are usually public? It's just you need more of them.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    isam said:

    Might make him look like the outsider that the Big Bad Establishment want to silence... money couldn’t buy it

    Funny kind of outsider, being given a house in Chelsea and being driven around by a chauffeur.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    justin124 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Could there be a legal challenge to that?
    How can you have a legal challenge? They can do what they want.
  • tottenhamWCtottenhamWC Posts: 352
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Again - the NHS already uses American pharmaceuticals and equipment.

    Whats the issue ?
    I think the issue is that this narrative is just massively politically toxic.....even private investment in the NHS gets panned; let alone private investment from a Trump US administration
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TSE Thread Opnion :

    "The successor to Sir Vince Cable might currently be in another party."

    .......................................................................................................

    Nigel Farage ?!?!? ..... :smiley:

    LibDem/BREXIT Alliance - Paper Scissors Rock to determine BREXIT - Best of 5.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Chris "the Farthingale Five"?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Scott_P said:
    Whilst I can understand why they are doing this, I am never keen on changing the rules part-way through a process. I know it hasn't officially started - but effectively it has.

    I would have just moved from 2 votes per week to at least 3 if not 4.
    As Guido's list currently stands, that first requirement immediately whittles the list down to six - BoJo, Gove, Hunt, Raab, Javid, Mancock*.

    (* I hope this to gain some currency given the recent trend for combining first and surnames into one handy word)
    To be honest no one out side those 6 has any hope.

  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300
    edited June 2019
    TGOHF said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Big moment . Trump admits the NHS is on the table in any trade deal.

    Oh dear !

    Has Donald just killed Brexit stone dead? The US-UK trade deal was the last rusty nail for the Leavers to hang their coat on. Donald has just toxified it.
    Exactly . The NHS is a red line even for Leavers .
    What parts of the NHS are you worried about ?

    Coca Cola in the canteen ?

    Apple Ipads for doctors ?

    Come on - what USA input would ruin it for you ?

    Isn't it about their healthcare companies being allowed to bid for tendered provider contracts (which seem to be growing in size and commissioning power)?

  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Much like how Corbyn should respect the position of POTUS? Or was he too busy on his allotment to go to the banquet?

    Two wrongs don't make a right. Not in my book.

    And this was more appropriate than a fancy dinner. Could have been a serious exchange of views.

    Chance for Trump to learn something. Maybe that's why he flunked it.
    @kinabalu

    Today is the 30th anniversary of Tiananmen Square.

    Corbyn was perfectly OK with attending the state banquet when the Chinese premier visited in 2015.
    Will you and others please stop corbynsplaining us?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Again - the NHS already uses American pharmaceuticals and equipment.

    Whats the issue ?
    I think the issue is that this narrative is just massively politically toxic.....even private investment in the NHS gets panned; let alone private investment from a Trump US administration
    Given Congress has already indicated it will veto any trade deal that Trump would seek to present, we are talking in hypothetical terms only at the moment.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    TGOHF said:

    nichomar said:

    brendan16 said:

    TGOHF said:

    nico67 said:

    Big moment . Trump admits the NHS is on the table in any trade deal.

    Oh dear !

    You mean - the NHS might start using American drugs and American equipment ?

    OMG !

    And British companies can do the same in return - or no deal?

    As long as the NHS remains free at the point of use I don't really care how its run ultimately - private companies have always supported the NHS and invented drugs used in the NHS. Outcomes should be what matters - not inputs.
    The American drug companies hate the NHS because their buying power drives down prices unlike in the states where thousands of entities have no bargaining power so the drug companies charge what they like.
    So you are saying the NHS already buys drugs from the USA ?

    Good god - we can't let that happen..



    That’s why they want a trade deal to allow the break up the NHS so iloses it’s buying power
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam said:

    Scott_P said:
    Might make him look like the outsider that the Big Bad Establishment want to silence... money couldn’t buy it
    I don't think a man with a secret sugar daddy can make a point about high principles.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    eek said:

    isam said:

    Scott_P said:
    Might make him look like the outsider that the Big Bad Establishment want to silence... money couldn’t buy it
    As shown in the next tweet

    https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1135903122403069952
    I don't think anyone would be trying too hard to escape those accusations.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Could there be a legal challenge to that?
    How can you have a legal challenge? They can do what they want.
    Can any organisation simply change its rules at the drop of a hat - when contenders have already entered a contest in good faith on the basis of the existing rules?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Hilarious some Leavers think the Trump comments aren’t toxic .

    Other parties now need to tie Farages previous comments on the NHS and his arse licking of Trump to say vote BP see the NHS sold off .
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Could there be a legal challenge to that?
    How can you have a legal challenge? They can do what they want.
    Can any organisation simply change its rules at the drop of a hat - when contenders have already entered a contest in good faith on the basis of the existing rules?
    They haven't entered the contest. There's no vacancy yet.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    What odds Leadsom fails to get seven proposers?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    Spoiler - the NHS already pays US corporations for their pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

    And Swedish, German ..
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Whilst I can understand why they are doing this, I am never keen on changing the rules part-way through a process. I know it hasn't officially started - but effectively it has.

    I would have just moved from 2 votes per week to at least 3 if not 4.
    As Guido's list currently stands, that first requirement immediately whittles the list down to six - BoJo, Gove, Hunt, Raab, Javid, Mancock*.

    (* I hope this to gain some currency given the recent trend for combining first and surnames into one handy word)
    To be honest no one out side those 6 has any hope.

    Indeed - I'm sure the new rules have been devised with half an eye on the current list and the impact they would have on it. If the effect was to exclude a current well-established minister like Mancock, it would be seen as fixing the game. Having a dividing line between him and Harper on the list, not so much.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    LOL! From the same people who refuse to acknowledge the position of the President of the United States....



    Just flipping that argument back to test reaction. Which was as I thought. The hypocrisy of some posters on here takes the breath away sometimes.

    In fact I think Trump is under no obligation whatsoever to meet Corbyn.

    Any case I bet Jeremy pitched it to be as unpalatable as possible. Meet in Islington, upstairs room of the Socialist Arms, no junk food, no fawning media or hangers on, no press conf or photo ops. And leave that risible 'Beast' in the garage - come by tube.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Dadge said:

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Much like how Corbyn should respect the position of POTUS? Or was he too busy on his allotment to go to the banquet?

    Two wrongs don't make a right. Not in my book.

    And this was more appropriate than a fancy dinner. Could have been a serious exchange of views.

    Chance for Trump to learn something. Maybe that's why he flunked it.
    @kinabalu

    Today is the 30th anniversary of Tiananmen Square.

    Corbyn was perfectly OK with attending the state banquet when the Chinese premier visited in 2015.
    Will you and others please stop corbynsplaining us?
    Yeah - when you stop being so patently embarrassed about the sanctimony of your leader being pointed out.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    TGOHF said:

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    Spoiler - the NHS already pays US corporations for their pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

    And Swedish, German ..

    I think it's marvellous that Brexit is going to see the Tories having to justify the possibility of selling the NHS off to American corporations. My hunch is that it will not be politically popular.

  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited June 2019
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Could there be a legal challenge to that?
    How can you have a legal challenge? They can do what they want.
    Can any organisation simply change its rules at the drop of a hat - when contenders have already entered a contest in good faith on the basis of the existing rules?
    I don't know as I'm not a lawyer but as the contest hasn't officially started it seems to me that they can do whatever they want. If a contestant doesn't like it, they don't need to stand.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    She's well out of it.

    At least the party had several hundred seats and was nominally in power when she handed over.

    The next guy...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    justin124 said:

    The lasting legacy of Change UK may be that as three of the strongest anti-Boris chucked away their vote to succeed May, they allowed him to become Prime Minister.....

    They can still vote against him on a VNOC though.
    You think Boris won't relish going to the country when the arch-Remainers have collapsed the govt. to prevent us Leaving?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    nico67 said:

    Hilarious some Leavers think the Trump comments aren’t toxic .

    Other parties now need to tie Farages previous comments on the NHS and his arse licking of Trump to say vote BP see the NHS sold off .

    Alternatively a debate that highlights that the NHS is built on private money developing healthcare might not be what the NHS disciples really want...

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    nico67 said:

    Hilarious some Leavers think the Trump comments aren’t toxic .

    Other parties now need to tie Farages previous comments on the NHS and his arse licking of Trump to say vote BP see the NHS sold off .

    If Gordon Brown was in charge of managing the Labour message, then the Trump thing would be used as the biggest bazooka in electoral history, day after day.

    Jezza's lot? Hmmm. Too busy on about taxing granny's garden.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2019

    TGOHF said:

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    Spoiler - the NHS already pays US corporations for their pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

    And Swedish, German ..

    I think it's marvellous that Brexit is going to see the Tories having to justify the possibility of selling the NHS off to American corporations. My hunch is that it will not be politically popular.

    Which is a pity, because widening the competition amongst service providers is an excellent idea, and US healthcare providers include some of the very best in the world. But you are probably right, the irrational worship of the particular and very odd nationalised-industry structure we are stuck with in the UK makes progress very hard indeed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,770
    edited June 2019
    OK. Let's talk about that US-UK trade deal for a moment.

    1. It's not about the NHS

    2. It's going to be about agriculture.:
    (a) Simply, the Labour Party isn't going to vote for a trade deal with the mortal enemy (Trump's US), while MPs from rural seats aren't going to vote for allowing food produced under US statndards to compete with that produced under UK ones.
    (b) Oh yes, and those Conservative MPs from wealthy cities? They're going to hate the fact that (i) GM crops will be allowed and (ii) the UK will be treaty bound to not even force labelling of GM products.

    3. Under a crash out Brexit scenario, the US Irish lobby is going be pretty pissed. Rightly or wrongly, we will be blamed. I cannot see the House of Representatives handing Trump or the UK a victory under those circumstances.

    4. I can't see the US softening its ISDS requirements - i.e. where there are two US judges for one of ours in dispute resolution. That has led to some seriously unbalanced decisions in NAFTA.

    A US-UK trade deal, no matter how desirable, is a chimera. There aren't the votes for it in the UK. There aren't the votes for it in the US.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    If any of the Chukkas join the Lib Dems, then the Yellow Team should insist on them holding by-elections.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to the EU instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    :innocent:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Chris said:

    I suppose they could rename themselves Small Change now ...

    Make a play for Penny Mordaunt to lead them?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    TGOHF said:

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    Spoiler - the NHS already pays US corporations for their pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

    And Swedish, German ..
    Irrelevant . The mere mention of the NHS and the USA will allow Labour and others to have a strong campaign message.

    Trump just handed a huge win to Remainers aswell . Brexit will see a desperate UK forced to sign any deal and that means the NHS will be up for grabs .

  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741
    edited June 2019
    Afternoon all :)

    I suppose any justice system based on the use of trebuchet would be a pale imitation of the methods used in North Korea (allegedly) where anti-aircraft fire and packs of starving dogs are now en vogue for Cabinet re-shuffles.

    As for President Trump, whether we like it or not, he is the democratically elected leader of the USA and as a Head of State deserves the appropriate welcome. May chose to invite him - whether that was a good idea or unnecessarily divisive is for others to comment.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    Chris said:

    I suppose they could rename themselves Small Change now ...

    Make a play for Penny Mordaunt to lead them?
    She should form a new party with Stephen Pound

    In for a Penny, in for a Pound
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Market now has Boris 47%, Gove 19%, Leadsom 12%, Jezza 7%, Raab 4%, Rory 3%.

    Saj/Mordaunt/Hancock disappearing out into sub 2% territory.


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Scott_P said:
    To be fair, he probably can't remember every selfie taken with Bubba in East Bumfuck Pa. either........
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    nico67 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    Spoiler - the NHS already pays US corporations for their pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

    And Swedish, German ..
    Irrelevant . The mere mention of the NHS and the USA will allow Labour and others to have a strong campaign message.

    Sounds a bit patronising - "we know your a bit fick but Trump's going to buy yer nurses from your community hospital"

    Might get the Jezziah frothing into his oat milk latte but the rest of the voters are more sophisticated - some of them may even work in the booming Uk life science sector and deal with US companies every day - or even work for them..
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    The lasting legacy of Change UK may be that as three of the strongest anti-Boris chucked away their vote to succeed May, they allowed him to become Prime Minister.....

    They can still vote against him on a VNOC though.
    You think Boris won't relish going to the country when the arch-Remainers have collapsed the govt. to prevent us Leaving?
    Having resigned the Tory Whip . they no longer have any obligation to support Boris - or any Tory PM - on a VNOC. They would also have a long list of reasons to justify voting Boris down simply in terms of his unsuitability for the post. The electorate might well be grateful for having been spared the prospect of being ruled by such a malign human being.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,730

    isam said:

    Might make him look like the outsider that the Big Bad Establishment want to silence... money couldn’t buy it

    Funny kind of outsider, being given a house in Chelsea and being driven around by a chauffeur.
    We’ll see. I’d have thought Farage and Leave in general would lap up the chance to be banned by the EU parliament
  • isamisam Posts: 40,730

    isam said:

    Scott_P said:
    Might make him look like the outsider that the Big Bad Establishment want to silence... money couldn’t buy it
    I don't think a man with a secret sugar daddy can make a point about high principles.

    If they ban him it will put points on BXP polling overnight. I hope they do.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,793
    tlg86 said:

    If any of the Chukkas join the Lib Dems, then the Yellow Team should insist on them holding by-elections.

    Because the Lib Dems hold our existing FPTP sacred as a system?
    I mean, why?
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited June 2019
    TGOHF said:

    nico67 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    Spoiler - the NHS already pays US corporations for their pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

    And Swedish, German ..
    Irrelevant . The mere mention of the NHS and the USA will allow Labour and others to have a strong campaign message.

    Sounds a bit patronising - "we know your a bit fick but Trump's going to buy yer nurses from your community hospital"

    Might get the Jezziah frothing into his oat milk latte but the rest of the voters are more sophisticated - some of them may even work in the booming Uk life science sector and deal with US companies every day - or even work for them..
    If you think the general public (who some claim voted for Brexit to give the NHS £350m a week) are not going to be scared by the US trying to get near the NHS you are going to be very surprised.

    "Brexit = a US health care system" is something that would change a lot of Brexit votes.

    And while it may not be 100% true it's less of a lie than the bus was...
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038

    justin124 said:

    The lasting legacy of Change UK may be that as three of the strongest anti-Boris chucked away their vote to succeed May, they allowed him to become Prime Minister.....

    They can still vote against him on a VNOC though.
    You think Boris won't relish going to the country when the arch-Remainers have collapsed the govt. to prevent us Leaving?
    Indeed. A 2019 election will come down to alliances, and a Boris-Nigel axis is looking more likely than a Corbyn-Swinson one.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    TGOHF said:

    nico67 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    Spoiler - the NHS already pays US corporations for their pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

    And Swedish, German ..
    Irrelevant . The mere mention of the NHS and the USA will allow Labour and others to have a strong campaign message.

    Sounds a bit patronising - "we know your a bit fick but Trump's going to buy yer nurses from your community hospital"

    Might get the Jezziah frothing into his oat milk latte but the rest of the voters are more sophisticated - some of them may even work in the booming Uk life science sector and deal with US companies every day - or even work for them..
    If you are right then the Conservative leadership candidates will be writing it on the sides of their metaphorical campaign buses. If wrong, they will be explaining how they will avoid it.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Talking of US trade deals, or lack thereof:

    https://twitter.com/snlester/status/1135867031671246848
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    TGOHF said:

    nico67 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    Spoiler - the NHS already pays US corporations for their pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

    And Swedish, German ..
    Irrelevant . The mere mention of the NHS and the USA will allow Labour and others to have a strong campaign message.

    Sounds a bit patronising - "we know your a bit fick but Trump's going to buy yer nurses from your community hospital"

    Might get the Jezziah frothing into his oat milk latte but the rest of the voters are more sophisticated - some of them may even work in the booming Uk life science sector and deal with US companies every day - or even work for them..

    The life sciences sector was booming. Then Brexit came along.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    eek said:

    TGOHF said:

    nico67 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    Spoiler - the NHS already pays US corporations for their pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

    And Swedish, German ..
    Irrelevant . The mere mention of the NHS and the USA will allow Labour and others to have a strong campaign message.

    Sounds a bit patronising - "we know your a bit fick but Trump's going to buy yer nurses from your community hospital"

    Might get the Jezziah frothing into his oat milk latte but the rest of the voters are more sophisticated - some of them may even work in the booming Uk life science sector and deal with US companies every day - or even work for them..
    If you think the general public (who some claim voted for Brexit to give the NHS £350m a week) are not going to be scared by the US trying to get near the NHS you are going to be very surprised.

    "Brexit = a US health care system" is something that would change a lot of Brexit votes.

    And while it may not be 100% true it's less of a lie than the bus was...
    We can have a US style health care system whether we are in the EU or not.

    Throwing around some random slogans is barking mad.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    TGOHF said:

    nico67 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    Spoiler - the NHS already pays US corporations for their pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

    And Swedish, German ..
    Irrelevant . The mere mention of the NHS and the USA will allow Labour and others to have a strong campaign message.

    Sounds a bit patronising - "we know your a bit fick but Trump's going to buy yer nurses from your community hospital"

    Might get the Jezziah frothing into his oat milk latte but the rest of the voters are more sophisticated - some of them may even work in the booming Uk life science sector and deal with US companies every day - or even work for them..
    Not patronizing . Just as most people knew nothing of the detail surrounding many aspects of Brexit like the Customs Union and just deal in sound bites they won’t be going over the current details of the NHS re current contracts with the USA.

    All they’ll hear is NHS and up for grabs in any USA trade deal.

    I sense some Leavers are rather worried about Trumps comments !
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669

    isam said:

    Scott_P said:
    Might make him look like the outsider that the Big Bad Establishment want to silence... money couldn’t buy it
    I don't think a man with a secret sugar daddy can make a point about high principles.
    Nobody should get away with continually breaking rules.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    nico67 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    Spoiler - the NHS already pays US corporations for their pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

    And Swedish, German ..
    Irrelevant . The mere mention of the NHS and the USA will allow Labour and others to have a strong campaign message.

    Trump just handed a huge win to Remainers aswell . Brexit will see a desperate UK forced to sign any deal and that means the NHS will be up for grabs .

    That was always going to be the case.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    So Corbyn's idea of diplomacy is to snub the President by refusing to attend a formal state banquet but to request a meeting with him?

    It sounds rather like his Brexit policy.

    Doesn't it? What a doophus.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,730
    edited June 2019
    Everything that Trump and Farage has ever done has been that thing that’s going to push voters away from them, from the 2014 Euros, to the referendum, to the US Election, to the 2019 Euros...

    Confirmation bias I’m afraid
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    nico67 said:

    TGOHF said:

    nico67 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    Spoiler - the NHS already pays US corporations for their pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

    And Swedish, German ..
    Irrelevant . The mere mention of the NHS and the USA will allow Labour and others to have a strong campaign message.

    Sounds a bit patronising - "we know your a bit fick but Trump's going to buy yer nurses from your community hospital"

    Might get the Jezziah frothing into his oat milk latte but the rest of the voters are more sophisticated - some of them may even work in the booming Uk life science sector and deal with US companies every day - or even work for them..

    All they’ll hear ..
    Nah not patronising at all..

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Incidentally, what's happening with the Richard Tice threatened libel action?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Incidentally, what's happening with the Richard Tice threatened libel action?

    Smary Nat called his bluff but wasn't brave enough to make a public statement about it .

    Not heard anything since.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    Andrew said:

    Market now has Boris 47%, Gove 19%, Leadsom 12%, Jezza 7%, Raab 4%, Rory 3%.

    Saj/Mordaunt/Hancock disappearing out into sub 2% territory.


    Which is funny, because if the 1922 rules I'm seeing on Twitter are true (5% threshold for first ballot, 10% for second) Saj and Hancock are two of the only 5/6 candidates who might survive to the third. Leadsom by contrast...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    isam said:
    Actually they are @TSE fashion advisers .... :innocent:
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited June 2019

    Talking of US trade deals, or lack thereof:

    https://twitter.com/snlester/status/1135867031671246848

    Are chlorinated washed salads and vegetables ok - it keeps them looking so fresh at Tesco, Waitrose and Sainsburys in those clear bags.

    Also be wary about taking your kids to the local swimming pool - as they will be subject to a bit of chlorine washing!

    The issue is of course nothing to do with chlorine - but what happens before that stage.

  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    TGOHF said:

    eek said:

    TGOHF said:

    nico67 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to American corporations instead.

    How's that for the side of a bus?

    Spoiler - the NHS already pays US corporations for their pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

    And Swedish, German ..
    Irrelevant . The mere mention of the NHS and the USA will allow Labour and others to have a strong campaign message.

    Sounds a bit patronising - "we know your a bit fick but Trump's going to buy yer nurses from your community hospital"

    Might get the Jezziah frothing into his oat milk latte but the rest of the voters are more sophisticated - some of them may even work in the booming Uk life science sector and deal with US companies every day - or even work for them..
    If you think the general public (who some claim voted for Brexit to give the NHS £350m a week) are not going to be scared by the US trying to get near the NHS you are going to be very surprised.

    "Brexit = a US health care system" is something that would change a lot of Brexit votes.

    And while it may not be 100% true it's less of a lie than the bus was...
    We can have a US style health care system whether we are in the EU or not.

    Throwing around some random slogans is barking mad.
    Yes it is! But I guess my barking mad ones are different to yours.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851


    @kinabalu

    Today is the 30th anniversary of Tiananmen Square.

    Corbyn was perfectly OK with attending the state banquet when the Chinese premier visited in 2015.

    I think the default should be to attend unless the visiting leader is a piece of lowlife scum on a personal level.

    So, for example, Trump - obviously - but I would take the same view about an individual of similar character and personality who was nominally on the Left of politics.

    I guess we could come up with a couple of examples.

    So, judgemental, self righteous, but consistent - this is what I think best describes my attitude to this rather tricky area.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,342
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Could there be a legal challenge to that?
    How can you have a legal challenge? They can do what they want.
    Can any organisation simply change its rules at the drop of a hat - when contenders have already entered a contest in good faith on the basis of the existing rules?
    Yes unless a court or authority created by statute with power to do so overturns it.

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Quincel said:

    Andrew said:

    Market now has Boris 47%, Gove 19%, Leadsom 12%, Jezza 7%, Raab 4%, Rory 3%.

    Saj/Mordaunt/Hancock disappearing out into sub 2% territory.


    Which is funny, because if the 1922 rules I'm seeing on Twitter are true (5% threshold for first ballot, 10% for second) Saj and Hancock are two of the only 5/6 candidates who might survive to the third. Leadsom by contrast...
    Arms would be twisted for Leadsom, in order to avoid an all-male contest.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    brendan16 said:

    Talking of US trade deals, or lack thereof:

    https://twitter.com/snlester/status/1135867031671246848

    Are chlorinated washed salads and vegetables ok - it keeps them looking so fresh at Tesco, Waitrose and Sainsburys.

    Also be wary about taking your kids to the local swimming pool - for a bit of chlorine washing!

    Yes, the fuss about this is completely irrational. In fact the best policy would be to have EU standards of rearing AND the US standard of washing the carcasses to reduce salmonella and other pathogens. But sadly, rationality doesn't apply.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen should always have been in the Lib Dems.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    brendan16 said:



    Also be wary about taking your kids to the local swimming pool - as they will be subject to a bit of chlorine washing!

    The old days of being able to scare people and bend their will seems to be coming to an end.

    I eat chicken in the US all the time - never had food poisoning yet. If only people could see how much water the Dutch pump into chickens...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    The entrenched nature of politics may mean any NHS sloganising will be of limited efficacy. Pro-EU types will seize on it as an article of faith, anti-EU types will see it as more fear-mongering.
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300
    algarkirk said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Could there be a legal challenge to that?
    How can you have a legal challenge? They can do what they want.
    Can any organisation simply change its rules at the drop of a hat - when contenders have already entered a contest in good faith on the basis of the existing rules?
    Yes unless a court or authority created by statute with power to do so overturns it.

    Had the contest already *actually* started, then you could probably argue the case.

    So far, TM has only indicated an intention to resign, and when she does, a contest will start, the rules of which are currently being drawn up.

    My view is "nothing to see here".
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    Sean_F said:

    Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen should always have been in the Lib Dems.

    And, judging by her interview this morning, so should Justine Greening
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    JackW said:

    isam said:
    Actually they are @TSE fashion advisers .... :innocent:
    The hustings for your next LibDem leader.....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917
    TGOHF said:

    brendan16 said:



    Also be wary about taking your kids to the local swimming pool - as they will be subject to a bit of chlorine washing!

    The old days of being able to scare people and bend their will seems to be coming to an end.

    I eat chicken in the US all the time - never had food poisoning yet. If only people could see how much water the Dutch pump into chickens...
    Um, some vegetarian chicken-substitute for me, please :)
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    isam said:
    Well all least its raining - so some of them will get a good washing! Chlorine free hopefully!
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669
    I can't see any of the Change UK MPs being chosen by the LibDems as leader this time around. However, don't forget that Maclennan and Charles Kennedy were both originally SDP MPs.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,917
    Remainers don't care about the NHS!

    "Instead of spending billions on the NHS every year, let's give it to the EU instead"

    How's that for the side of a bus? :lol:
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    The entrenched nature of politics may mean any NHS sloganising will be of limited efficacy. Pro-EU types will seize on it as an article of faith, anti-EU types will see it as more fear-mongering.

    Maybe but as I mentioned a couple of threads back, the Brexit press was already starting to cotton on to this (probably because of the ambassador's remarks) and to the likely one-sided nature of a US trade deal in general. It will be interesting to see how the leadership candidates play it. It might also be significant that Liam Fox, our deal negotiator in chief, has signed up to Hunt.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    So the 1922 committee are changing the rules to exclude the one MP who has bothered to talk and listen to voters.

    Bah!
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    TGOHF said:

    brendan16 said:



    Also be wary about taking your kids to the local swimming pool - as they will be subject to a bit of chlorine washing!

    The old days of being able to scare people and bend their will seems to be coming to an end.

    I eat chicken in the US all the time - never had food poisoning yet. If only people could see how much water the Dutch pump into chickens...
    Mass-produced food that you find in the supermarkets here is noticeably inferior to that in the UK and Europe generally. If you can afford it, farmers’ markets are where you should by meat, eggs and produce.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,231
    TGOHF said:

    nichomar said:

    brendan16 said:

    TGOHF said:

    nico67 said:

    Big moment . Trump admits the NHS is on the table in any trade deal.

    Oh dear !

    You mean - the NHS might start using American drugs and American equipment ?

    OMG !

    And British companies can do the same in return - or no deal?

    As long as the NHS remains free at the point of use I don't really care how its run ultimately - private companies have always supported the NHS and invented drugs used in the NHS. Outcomes should be what matters - not inputs.
    The American drug companies hate the NHS because their buying power drives down prices unlike in the states where thousands of entities have no bargaining power so the drug companies charge what they like.
    So you are saying the NHS already buys drugs from the USA ?

    Good god - we can't let that happen..



    I don't know how you drew that conclusion from @nichomar 's point, but I'll restate it. The NHS is a large purchaser of drugs and as such can select amongst a wide variety of drug providers. This drives down the prices of drugs, since anybody that charges too much can be discarded. Drug providers wish to make a profit so distinguish their drugs by means of patents or greater efficacy (which is fine) and/or lobby the purchaser to limit the number of other providers (which isn't). If a firm can gain control of the NHS and force it to purchase from X exclusively then X will make a lot of profit. Since many of those firms are American they will (entirely properly) lobby their President to make that a condition in the deal. Hence the concern.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited June 2019

    The entrenched nature of politics may mean any NHS sloganising will be of limited efficacy. Pro-EU types will seize on it as an article of faith, anti-EU types will see it as more fear-mongering.

    More to the point, weaponising the NHS helps Corbyn...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    rpjs said:

    TGOHF said:

    brendan16 said:



    Also be wary about taking your kids to the local swimming pool - as they will be subject to a bit of chlorine washing!

    The old days of being able to scare people and bend their will seems to be coming to an end.

    I eat chicken in the US all the time - never had food poisoning yet. If only people could see how much water the Dutch pump into chickens...
    Mass-produced food that you find in the supermarkets here is noticeably inferior to that in the UK and Europe generally. If you can afford it, farmers’ markets are where you should by meat, eggs and produce.
    Well quite - and we will all still have that choice after Brexit and a trade deal.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    brendan16 said:

    Talking of US trade deals, or lack thereof:

    https://twitter.com/snlester/status/1135867031671246848

    Are chlorinated washed salads and vegetables ok - it keeps them looking so fresh at Tesco, Waitrose and Sainsburys in those clear bags.

    Also be wary about taking your kids to the local swimming pool - as they will be subject to a bit of chlorine washing!

    Not to mention each and every one of us has been drinking chlorine every day since the 1970's...
This discussion has been closed.