The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
Sadly, Big_G, I agree. I wish it were not so and someone like Rory could take over your party and return it to rational, steady conservative governing.
Strange times we live in.
I affirm as a member Boris will not receive my vote but I instinctively feel Boris is near unstoppable now.
As for post Boris I have great hopes for Penny Mordaunt but now is too soon
Agreed. She'd be an excellent post Boris PM, but this is not her moment.
It might not be anyone's moment, of course. Or this could be Sturgeon's moment, Putin's moment. the Lord High Demon of the Multiverse's moment.
But it is very definitely A Moment.
Not sure there will be a Tory Party for anyone to have any moments in by the time this is all over.
So Harry Cole can't tell the difference between a BBC employee doing something in their own time in a personal capacity and as part of their job. What a twerp.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn.
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes off both.
... and Ruth Davidson.
No. Scotlands first minister elect !!!!!!!
Er... are you on a Class A drug?
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occassions
Yes. Agree. But might be some laying potential should Boris have TV debate misstep.
For a start Gove will be going through his phone book ringing everyone Boris has ever met...
I can see it now.
Hunt: Look, Brexit must be delivered, but there are practical realities to the situation that require careful management and I have a not at all hopeless plan (I think) to ensure we leave the EU and avoid an election at a time of internal difficulty for the party.
Boris: *pauses**belches* BREXIT!!!!!!
(Crowd goes wild)
Boris: BREXIT!!!! Latin phrase, colloquialism, (please think of me like Churchill). BREXIT!!!
In fairness I don't think Hunt is particularly realistic either, though I was surprised he spoke against no deal.
It is very difficult now to see a route to the final two which doesn't include Boris J. In which case he wins.
Perhaps it is karmic justice for all, that the most prominent Brexiteer has to deliver Brexit.
Feck knows how he does it. But maybe the healing begins here.
I would die laughing if it wasn't so serious. But Boris trying to deliver the f**ked up cake crap that he has been blathering on about for last three years will be box office.
It would be the ultimate irony
Cripes. The EU wont reopen the negotiations! This is no longer the jolly jape I thought it was. But by jove they will know what has hit them when I stand up for Britain and shout 'Calais is written on my heart'.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
Boris intends us to no deal, there's no other way to interpret it when we know there is nothing else that could mollify the Bakers of this world, who make very clear the backstop could be resolved and they'd still not back a WA.
A lot of former remainers and softer leavers are either fooling themselves about what is either Boris's intention or the natural result of his plan whether he wants it or not, or they are ignoring that because they think he is the only one who can save as much of the party's vote as possible.
I agree with you. Somebody else made the same point the other day, which I also agreed with. It may have been you, in which case I agree with you twice. There is an awful lot of self-delusion here.
The combination of Boris and no deal would be enough to ensure his government falls before he has climbed into the saddle.
Rule 1: remainer Tories have no guts. They'll fold faster than paper deckchairs.
If you’re going to be deselected anyway what do you have to lose .
They lose their job. Immediately.
If there's no early election they keep their jobs for 3 more years. If they delay pulling the plug on Boris they keep it for a few more months. If they do it immediately it is game over immediately.
In which case there is a high chance they will lose their job pretty soon even if they delay pulling the plug, in which case is it really better for them long term to trash their own brand and ruin their reputation by backing Boris despite him pursuing something they claim is so important to them and the nation, rather than lose their job immediately but 'save' the country from that outcome, even at the price of, say, a Corbyn premiership?
They don't need to trash their own brand since their bottom line has been stated all along that no deal is unacceptable, not that Boris is unacceptable. Boris's stated position is that he wants a deal. Same as May's line was in fact
If Boris goes to the Commons and says he's going to the EU to seek a new deal, then Corbyn calls a VONC immediately then those who have quit their parties can abstain while reserving the right to vote against Boris if he switches to No Deal.
It is very difficult now to see a route to the final two which doesn't include Boris J. In which case he wins.
Perhaps it is karmic justice for all, that the most prominent Brexiteer has to deliver Brexit.
Feck knows how he does it. But maybe the healing begins here.
I would die laughing if it wasn't so serious. But Boris trying to deliver the f**ked up cake crap that he has been blathering on about for last three years will be box office.
If you thought watching May was excruciating, Boris is going to be like fingernails on a blackboard.
It will be a spectacle to sit back and watch with absolutely no way of scripting the end product
It is very difficult now to see a route to the final two which doesn't include Boris J. In which case he wins.
Perhaps it is karmic justice for all, that the most prominent Brexiteer has to deliver Brexit.
Feck knows how he does it. But maybe the healing begins here.
I would die laughing if it wasn't so serious. But Boris trying to deliver the f**ked up cake crap that he has been blathering on about for last three years will be box office.
It would be the ultimate irony
Cripes. The EU wont reopen the negotiations! This is no longer the jolly jape I thought it was. But by jove they will know what has hit them when I stand up for Britain and shout 'Calais is written on my heart'.
You don't get it. He is seriously going for No Deal. If he can. He reckons it will nix the BXP and Labour. And not be as bad as everyone reckons.
Madness? Maybe. Do-able in parliament? Who knows.
But I can see the political logic. It is just about the only course for the Tories.
And there is always the very small chance that the EU blinks, and then he wins everything, everywhere, and will have statues erected to him, in small town squares.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn.
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes off both.
... and Ruth Davidson.
No. Scotlands first minister elect !!!!!!!
Er... are you on a Class A drug?
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occassions
Ruth really isn’t a champion of Unionism. She isn’t a champion of anything. She is excellent at focussing on what she dislikes, but wibble-wobbles on what she likes (when she, very rarely, expresses a policy).
If she really championed Unionism she would try to persuade waverers/floating voters. She never does. She only ever addresses her core vote. That is not the path to the office of FM.
Boris has to face someone. Yet everyone else is in double figures (expect Hunt on 9.8). Could be some trading chances here?
I mean if Gove crashes out I cannot believe he doesn't have something in the locker about his old journo chum Boris.
I posed the question earlier, but what could harm Boris at this point, to the point of actually preventing a victory? People know about his affairs, about being sacked for lying, about bumbling, about saying offensive things, that he has flip flopped on major issues including Brexit, that is stated to be lazy and incompetent. And yet no dealers and softer leavers alike are lining up to back him and the members still rate him above the other candidates.
What scandal would affect that?
His gaffs are already priced in .
Hard to see anything stopping him , unless someone has a tape of him going into a racist tirade . Labour want Bozo .
They have a host of material ready to go. And of course he will cost them a lot of votes in seats with a high proportion of ethnic voters . The Muslim vote especially is crucial in many seats.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
I agree with you. Somebody else made the same point the other day, which I also agreed with. It may have been you, in which case I agree with you twice. There is an awful lot of self-delusion here.
The combination of Boris and no deal would be enough to ensure his government falls before he has climbed into the saddle.
Rule 1: remainer Tories have no guts. They'll fold faster than paper deckchairs.
If you’re going to be deselected anyway what do you have to lose .
They lose their job. Immediately.
If there's no early election they keep their jobs for 3 more years. If they delay pulling the plug on Boris they keep it for a few more months. If they do it immediately it is game over immediately.
In which case there is a high chance they will lose their job pretty soon even if they delay pulling the plug, in which case is it really better for them long term to trash their own brand and ruin their reputation by backing Boris despite him pursuing something they claim is so important to them and the nation, rather than lose their job immediately but 'save' the country from that outcome, even at the price of, say, a Corbyn premiership?
They don't need to trash their own brand since their bottom line has been stated all along that no deal is unacceptable, not that Boris is unacceptable. Boris's stated position is that he wants a deal. Same as May's line was in fact
If Boris goes to the Commons and says he's going to the EU to seek a new deal, then Corbyn calls a VONC immediately then those who have quit their parties can abstain while reserving the right to vote against Boris if he switches to No Deal.
I was envisaging them switching to backing a VONC once Boris backs no deal officially. The dispute here may be how immediate we think that will be, since I don't think it will take much time after July 22nd for it to become apparent that is the path that will be taken. Indeed, it might well be apparent before then if he is forced to update his position as the EY continues to say they won't give a new deal. Grieve loves the EU, if they remain absolutely unequivocal they will not reopen things in the run up to Boris becoming PM, then surely he would believe them even if others do not?
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
Saving the Tory party = saving the country is not an entirely ludicrous position, when the Opposition is led by Jeremy Corbyn, Seamus Milne and John McDonnell, and other assorted Stalinists, anti-Semites, Marxists, Islamists, traitors, racists, IRA-lovers, and Jew-baiters.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
When the other potential PM is Corbyn, or God forbid Farage I think saving the Tories should be high up a leader's priority list. There's no Tony Blair (pre war) LOTO on the other side.
Ruth really isn’t a champion of Unionism. She isn’t a champion of anything. She is excellent at focussing on what she dislikes, but wibble-wobbles on what she likes (when she, very rarely, expresses a policy).
If she really championed Unionism she would try to persuade waverers/floating voters. She never does. She only ever addresses her core vote. That is not the path to the office of FM.
My first impression of Ruth Davidson was that she was a stand-up comedian who wandered into politics by mistake. The Rhona Cameron of the Tory party.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
Indeed. If we were four players instead of two we could get a lot of good work done. Like winning Eurovision.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
Fans self. That the Tory Party. THE TORY PARTY. Could behave in such a way!
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
Saving the Tory party = saving the country is not an entirely ludicrous position, when the Opposition is led by Jeremy Corbyn, Seamus Milne and John McDonnell, and other assorted Stalinists, anti-Semites, Marxists, Islamists, traitors, racists, IRA-lovers, and Jew-baiters.
Except saving the Tory party can mean many things. It could mean merely staving off a total collapse in the face of the LDs and BXP, while still meaning they lose the election, if not to Labour outright then to enable Labour to win most seats and put together a majority.
So even on their own terms saving the party may not save the country. Boris may be able to limit the damage in that regard, and HYUFD is awfully excited by polls as ever, but it would be a risky gamble following what would need to be his failure to get a deal, as his stated preference, and possibly having some of his own MPs vote against him in a VONC, to assume the numbers suggesting he would retain most seats are guaranteed.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
Fans self. That the Tory Party. THE TORY PARTY. Could behave in such a way!
Indeed. How different, how very different from the home life of our own dear Queen!
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
Fans self. That the Tory Party. THE TORY PARTY. Could behave in such a way!
All jokes aside, parties are usually at least able to pretend better that that is not the primary consideration.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
Awwww. Bless.
Alternatively you could have the Union under Jeremy Corbyn... The Socialist Pax Britannica, as George Galloway put it.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
Could just be both
But clearly that is unlikely as in order to win the party over Johnson is offering a hard-core Brexit which he knows in the medium term could be extremely damaging to the country post Brexit. The man appears to be an egotistical sociopath.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
Fans self. That the Tory Party. THE TORY PARTY. Could behave in such a way!
All jokes aside, parties are usually at least able to pretend better that that is not the primary consideration.
Emily Thornberry is Labour till she dies remember !
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
Fans self. That the Tory Party. THE TORY PARTY. Could behave in such a way!
All jokes aside, parties are usually at least able to pretend better that that is not the primary consideration.
The Tory interest IS the national interest, when the alternative is Jeremy "I love to go on gay-hanging Iranian Press TV" Corbyn, MP. CBE, KCMG, QC, Not.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
Saving the Tory party = saving the country is not an entirely ludicrous position, when the Opposition is led by Jeremy Corbyn, Seamus Milne and John McDonnell, and other assorted Stalinists, anti-Semites, Marxists, Islamists, traitors, racists, IRA-lovers, and Jew-baiters.
Except saving the Tory party can mean many things. It could mean merely staving off a total collapse in the face of the LDs and BXP, while still meaning they lose the election, if not to Labour outright then to enable Labour to win most seats and put together a majority.
So even on their own terms saving the party may not save the country. Boris may be able to limit the damage in that regard, and HYUFD is awfully excited by polls as ever, but it would be a risky gamble following what would need to be his failure to get a deal, as his stated preference, and possibly having some of his own MPs vote against him in a VONC, to assume the numbers suggesting he would retain most seats are guaranteed.
Saving the Party means ensuring it is the largest opposition Party after the GE right now.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
In the context of the United Kingdom! Where would the break up of the UK leave the "island nation" emotion that drove Brexit?
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn.
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes off both.
... and Ruth Davidson.
No. Scotlands first minister elect !!!!!!!
Er... are you on a Class A drug?
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occassions
Ruth really isn’t a champion of Unionism. She isn’t a champion of anything. She is excellent at focussing on what she dislikes, but wibble-wobbles on what she likes (when she, very rarely, expresses a policy).
If she really championed Unionism she would try to persuade waverers/floating voters. She never does. She only ever addresses her core vote. That is not the path to the office of FM.
You no doubt know I have been long associated with Scotland going back to my school days in Berwick on Tweed when in the 1950s Wendy Wood frequently painted a white line overnight across the centre of the border bridge demarking Scotland and England. Indeed going through my school days I was well versed in the fact Berwick had changed hands 13 times in it's history with Scotland
On moving to Edinburgh and meeting my wife I was very pro the Union as indeed she was but in those days labour ruled throughout and there was no question of independence,. I like Nicola and some of her policies but I cannot support independence so Ruth is the best source to defend it but of course she is not going to be First Minister anytime soon
Boris has to face someone. Yet everyone else is in double figures (expect Hunt on 9.8). Could be some trading chances here?
I mean if Gove crashes out I cannot believe he doesn't have something in the locker about his old journo chum Boris.
I posed the question earlier, but what could harm Boris at this point, to the point of actually preventing a victory? People know about his affairs, about being sacked for lying, about bumbling, about saying offensive things, that he has flip flopped on major issues including Brexit, that is stated to be lazy and incompetent. And yet no dealers and softer leavers alike are lining up to back him and the members still rate him above the other candidates.
What scandal would affect that?
His gaffs are already priced in .
Hard to see anything stopping him , unless someone has a tape of him going into a racist tirade . Labour want Bozo .
They have a host of material ready to go. And of course he will cost them a lot of votes in seats with a high proportion of ethnic voters . The Muslim vote especially is crucial in many seats.
If the polling is correct Labour certainly should not want Bozo, he beats Corbyn with an overall Tory majority unlike any other Tory contender. Hence in a recent Labourlist poll Boris was overwhelmingly the contender Labour Party members felt it would be hardest for Corbyn to beat in a general election and who Labour activists most feared.
Boris twice won London too which is full of ethnic minorities, something no other Tory has achieved
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
Not now! We in Wales are now Remainers. Check the polling!
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
Saving the Tory party = saving the country is not an entirely ludicrous position, when the Opposition is led by Jeremy Corbyn, Seamus Milne and John McDonnell, and other assorted Stalinists, anti-Semites, Marxists, Islamists, traitors, racists, IRA-lovers, and Jew-baiters.
Except saving the Tory party can mean many things. It could mean merely staving off a total collapse in the face of the LDs and BXP, while still meaning they lose the election, if not to Labour outright then to enable Labour to win most seats and put together a majority.
So even on their own terms saving the party may not save the country. Boris may be able to limit the damage in that regard, and HYUFD is awfully excited by polls as ever, but it would be a risky gamble following what would need to be his failure to get a deal, as his stated preference, and possibly having some of his own MPs vote against him in a VONC, to assume the numbers suggesting he would retain most seats are guaranteed.
Saving the Party means ensuring it is the largest opposition Party after the GE right now.
I can see it being both the largest party in the Commons and in opposition post GE.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
Not as long as I breathe will I support EU integration
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
When the other potential PM is Corbyn, or God forbid Farage I think saving the Tories should be high up a leader's priority list. There's no Tony Blair (pre war) LOTO on the other side.
Unless people are resigned to the Tories being out of power forever then a spell in opposition even under Corbyn, who is very crap, would perhaps be a necessary price for a more positive Brexit outcome. They've had 9 years, which is not a bad run, and Brexit is so divisive it feels like it would be a miracle for a governing party to retain power after it is resolved, one way or another. In which case achieving the best outcome for the country is not pandering to the Tory membership, given most Tory MPs for years have indicated they think no deal is worse than a deal, and therefore no deal is worse for the country even though it is better for the party.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
Awwww. Bless.
Alternatively you could have the Union under Jeremy Corbyn... The Socialist Pax Britannica, as George Galloway put it.
I suspect the canny Scots would be out of the UK, like a rat from a strumpet's blanket, the moment Corbyn got to power. And who could blame them?
All positions are now an existential threat to the Union. But that's no change, It was existentially threatened since Salmond nearly won his referendum. So now we will probably have an English PM - Boris Johnson - pursuing a different course. It is up to the Scots how they respond, and it is their sovereign right to quit if they wish. This charade of seeking concord is close to a much-needed end.
The A C Grayling #FBPE #PeoplesVote &/or #Revoke50 Retweeted mob are getting all excited at the revelation that SLab & Leonard have come out for a 2nd vote etc.
Does anyone want to break it to them just what a big fat slice of irrelevance this is?
It is very difficult now to see a route to the final two which doesn't include Boris J. In which case he wins.
Perhaps it is karmic justice for all, that the most prominent Brexiteer has to deliver Brexit.
Feck knows how he does it. But maybe the healing begins here.
I would die laughing if it wasn't so serious. But Boris trying to deliver the f**ked up cake crap that he has been blathering on about for last three years will be box office.
Yup. I reckon he will seriously go for No Deal, and try and get the EU to engineer it, so he can blame them (he knows they hate him). He's worked out that No Deal means a Deal anyway, just with several weeks/months of chaos in between, but at least it saves the country from Corbyn and Farage.
Of course it might cost the Union.... or it might not. Boris is gonna roll the dice.
Boris does not want No Deal, he wants a FTA for GB and will shaft the DUP on the backstop if necessary to get it
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
Not now! We in Wales are now Remainers. Check the polling!
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
When the other potential PM is Corbyn, or God forbid Farage I think saving the Tories should be high up a leader's priority list. There's no Tony Blair (pre war) LOTO on the other side.
Unless people are resigned to the Tories being out of power forever then a spell in opposition even under Corbyn, who is very crap, would perhaps be a necessary price for a more positive Brexit outcome. They've had 9 years, which is not a bad run, and Brexit is so divisive it feels like it would be a miracle for a governing party to retain power after it is resolved, one way or another. In which case achieving the best outcome for the country is not pandering to the Tory membership, given most Tory MPs for years have indicated they think no deal is worse than a deal, and therefore no deal is worse for the country even though it is better for the party.
I wouldn't worry, "No deal" can't be got through parliament. And Bercow will make sure parliament is heard on the matter.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
Could just be both
But clearly that is unlikely as in order to win the party over Johnson is offering a hard-core Brexit which he knows in the medium term could be extremely damaging to the country post Brexit. The man appears to be an egotistical sociopath.
Anyway you seem sold on him.
I am translating the obvious but I repeat yet again this member will not vote for him (nor will my wife)
The A C Grayling #FBPE #PeoplesVote &/or #Revoke50 Retweeted mob are getting all excited at the revelation that SLab & Leonard have come out for a 2nd vote etc.
Does anyone want to break it to them just what a big fat slice of irrelevance this is?
Don't knock it. They are starting to appreciate the benefits of an independent policy.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
Fans self. That the Tory Party. THE TORY PARTY. Could behave in such a way!
All jokes aside, parties are usually at least able to pretend better that that is not the primary consideration.
Emily Thornberry is Labour till she dies remember !
Yes, that was an example of the mask slipping. We can be confident many many MPs on both sides are equally ridiculously in their tribalism
The Tory interest IS the national interest, when the alternative is Jeremy "I love to go on gay-hanging Iranian Press TV" Corbyn, MP. CBE, KCMG, QC, Not.
In that case they should avoid risking an election by pursing no deal. How selfish of the Tories to give Corbyn a chance to win a GE (who knows what might happen in a campaign) just to save their own party. The national interest would surely be to do something supported in parliament so that they can remain in office for the rest of this term.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
Not as long as I breathe will I support EU integration
I'm sad to read that after your post about the D-Day commemorations.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
In the context of the United Kingdom! Where would the break up of the UK leave the "island nation" emotion that drove Brexit?
We would default to "England". Quite a few people would welcome that. I am not one of them. But I can see the logic. We would ideally be an insular, much more influential, truly self governing Switzerland, with better borders, but we might end up like Albania.
Big gamble. But as I say, all ways are gambles, from here.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
When the other potential PM is Corbyn, or God forbid Farage I think saving the Tories should be high up a leader's priority list. There's no Tony Blair (pre war) LOTO on the other side.
Unless people are resigned to the Tories being out of power forever then a spell in opposition even under Corbyn, who is very crap, would perhaps be a necessary price for a more positive Brexit outcome. They've had 9 years, which is not a bad run, and Brexit is so divisive it feels like it would be a miracle for a governing party to retain power after it is resolved, one way or another. In which case achieving the best outcome for the country is not pandering to the Tory membership, given most Tory MPs for years have indicated they think no deal is worse than a deal, and therefore no deal is worse for the country even though it is better for the party.
I wouldn't worry, "No deal" can't be got through parliament. And Bercow will make sure parliament is heard on the matter.
Before someone pops up and says 'no deal' doesn't have to'get through' as it is the legal default we all know what you mean given the second sentence, and while that is technically a relief for those who think no deal will be bad, there are plenty of other outcomes that might also be bad, and sadly what we cannot be sure of is parliament avoiding those!
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
In the context of the United Kingdom! Where would the break up of the UK leave the "island nation" emotion that drove Brexit?
We would default to "England". Quite a few people would welcome that. I am not one of them. But I can see the logic. We would ideally be an insular, much more influential, truly self governing Switzerland, with better borders, but we might end up like Albania.
Big gamble. But as I say, all ways are gambles, from here.
"England" would be unequivocally a European nation in a way that "Britain" isn't, and we do not have the historical aloofness to play the role of a greater Switzerland.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
When the other potential PM is Corbyn, or God forbid Farage I think saving the Tories should be high up a leader's priority list. There's no Tony Blair (pre war) LOTO on the other side.
Unless people are resigned to the Tories being out of power forever then a spell in opposition even under Corbyn, who is very crap, would perhaps be a necessary price for a more positive Brexit outcome. They've had 9 years, which is not a bad run, and Brexit is so divisive it feels like it would be a miracle for a governing party to retain power after it is resolved, one way or another. In which case achieving the best outcome for the country is not pandering to the Tory membership, given most Tory MPs for years have indicated they think no deal is worse than a deal, and therefore no deal is worse for the country even though it is better for the party.
I wouldn't worry, "No deal" can't be got through parliament. And Bercow will make sure parliament is heard on the matter.
I am really not sure that is true. And even if it is true, then I think a Prime Minister Johnson would call a General Election on Who Decides Brexit. The Voters Or the Elite and I think he would win, pretty big, maybe very big, against a havering yet eurosceptic Corbyn.
The A C Grayling #FBPE #PeoplesVote &/or #Revoke50 Retweeted mob are getting all excited at the revelation that SLab & Leonard have come out for a 2nd vote etc.
Does anyone want to break it to them just what a big fat slice of irrelevance this is?
I know they do have more, but I'm constantly thinking Scottish Labour only has 1 MP at the moment.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
When the other potential PM is Corbyn, or God forbid Farage I think saving the Tories should be high up a leader's priority list. There's no Tony Blair (pre war) LOTO on the other side.
Unless people are resigned to the Tories being out of power forever then a spell in opposition even under Corbyn, who is very crap, would perhaps be a necessary price for a more positive Brexit outcome. They've had 9 years, which is not a bad run, and Brexit is so divisive it feels like it would be a miracle for a governing party to retain power after it is resolved, one way or another. In which case achieving the best outcome for the country is not pandering to the Tory membership, given most Tory MPs for years have indicated they think no deal is worse than a deal, and therefore no deal is worse for the country even though it is better for the party.
I wouldn't worry, "No deal" can't be got through parliament. And Bercow will make sure parliament is heard on the matter.
I am really not sure that is true. And even if it is true, then I think a Prime Minister Johnson would call a General Election on Who Decides Brexit. The Voters Or the Elite and I think he would win, pretty big, maybe very big, against a havering yet eurosceptic Corbyn.
Or, he will redux the Heath election and get the result: 'Not You Mate!'
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
Not as long as I breathe will I support EU integration
I'm sad to read that after your post about the D-Day commemorations.
Why. I want to enjoy close friendship with all the EU but never to be integrated as one EU
Hunt has tonight also been identified in news reports as having taken cannabis while backpacking in India
At this rate Boris is home and dry because all the other substance-addled candidates have had to drop out due to their spurious back-stories. Thank goodness Boris's cupboards are skeleton -free.
I am really not sure that is true. And even if it is true, then I think a Prime Minister Johnson would call a General Election on Who Decides Brexit. The Voters Or the Elite and I think he would win, pretty big, maybe very big, against a havering yet eurosceptic Corbyn.
So the party advocating a People's Vote, as opposed to the whim of Boris Johnson, would win...
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn.
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes off both.
... and Ruth Davidson.
No. Scotlands first minister elect !!!!!!!
Er... are you on a Class A drug?
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occassions
Ruth really isn’t a champion of Unionism. She isn’t a champion of anything. She is excellent at focussing on what she dislikes, but wibble-wobbles on what she likes (when she, very rarely, expresses a policy).
If she really championed Unionism she would try to persuade waverers/floating voters. She never does. She only ever addresses her core vote. That is not the path to the office of FM.
You no doubt know I have been long associated with Scotland going back to my school days in Berwick on Tweed when in the 1950s Wendy Wood frequently painted a white line overnight across the centre of the border bridge demarking Scotland and England. Indeed going through my school days I was well versed in the fact Berwick had changed hands 13 times in it's history with Scotland
On moving to Edinburgh and meeting my wife I was very pro the Union as indeed she was but in those days labour ruled throughout and there was no question of independence,. I like Nicola and some of her policies but I cannot support independence so Ruth is the best source to defend it but of course she is not going to be First Minister anytime soon
The legends of Wendy. She got into a fair few scrapes during her time. Nowadays she would probably have been a social media superstar. I have a vague connection with Wendy in a friend of a friend fashion.
They don’t make nationalists like her anymore. She’d probably think of the modern party as a bunch of jessies.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
In the context of the United Kingdom! Where would the break up of the UK leave the "island nation" emotion that drove Brexit?
We would default to "England". Quite a few people would welcome that. I am not one of them. But I can see the logic. We would ideally be an insular, much more influential, truly self governing Switzerland, with better borders, but we might end up like Albania.
Big gamble. But as I say, all ways are gambles, from here.
"England" would be unequivocally a European nation in a way that "Britain" isn't, and we do not have the historical aloofness to play the role of a greater Switzerland.
What a load of twaddle. England has always been different. We are an island. Norway, Switzerland and Iceland do very nicely, offshore of Europe.
In truth, the Scots - if they voted indy - would be mad to jump into the EU, looking at the success of just-outside-the-EU nations, in north west Europe. I suspect they would do better free-riding. But it will be their choice. And for now, it is OUR choice, as Britons.
Entirely off topic, just watched the last episode of Chernobyl (excellent, brilliant, fandabidozie etc). Anyone else struck by the resemblance of the actor who played the fictional head of the KGB, Charkov, to John McDonnell? A physical resemblance but also the voice is uncanny. Probably accidental, but a good joke if not.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn.
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes off both.
... and Ruth Davidson.
No. Scotlands first minister elect !!!!!!!
Er... are you on a Class A drug?
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occassions
Ruth really isn’t a champion of Unionism. She isn’t a champion of anything. She is excellent at focussing on what she dislikes, but wibble-wobbles on what she likes (when she, very rarely, expresses a policy).
If she really championed Unionism she would try to persuade waverers/floating voters. She never does. She only ever addresses her core vote. That is not the path to the office of FM.
You no doubt know I have been long associated with Scotland going back to my school days in Berwick on Tweed when in the 1950s Wendy Wood frequently painted a white line overnight across the centre of the border bridge demarking Scotland and England. Indeed going through my school days I was well versed in the fact Berwick had changed hands 13 times in it's history with Scotland
On moving to Edinburgh and meeting my wife I was very pro the Union as indeed she was but in those days labour ruled throughout and there was no question of independence,. I like Nicola and some of her policies but I cannot support independence so Ruth is the best source to defend it but of course she is not going to be First Minister anytime soon
The legends of Wendy. She got into a fair few scrapes during her time. Nowadays she would probably have been a social media superstar. I have a vague connection with Wendy in a friend of a friend fashion.
They don’t make nationalists like her anymore. She’d probably think of the modern party as a bunch of jessies.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
When the other potential PM is Corbyn, or God forbid Farage I think saving the Tories should be high up a leader's priority list. There's no Tony Blair (pre war) LOTO on the other side.
Unless people are resigned to the Tories being out of power forever then a spell in opposition even under Corbyn, who is very crap, would perhaps be a necessary price for a more positive Brexit outcome. They've had 9 years, which is not a bad run, and Brexit is so divisive it feels like it would be a miracle for a governing party to retain power after it is resolved, one way or another. In which case achieving the best outcome for the country is not pandering to the Tory membership, given most Tory MPs for years have indicated they think no deal is worse than a deal, and therefore no deal is worse for the country even though it is better for the party.
I wouldn't worry, "No deal" can't be got through parliament. And Bercow will make sure parliament is heard on the matter.
I am really not sure that is true. And even if it is true, then I think a Prime Minister Johnson would call a General Election on Who Decides Brexit. The Voters Or the Elite and I think he would win, pretty big, maybe very big, against a havering yet eurosceptic Corbyn.
Or, he will redux the Heath election and get the result: 'Not You Mate!'
Yes. Heath is the obvious counter-example. And salutary. But Heath was not facing Corbyn.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
Not now! We in Wales are now Remainers. Check the polling!
No you are not, Wales voted Brexit Party just last month, exactly like England did
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
When the other potential PM is Corbyn, or God forbid Farage I think saving the Tories should be high up a leader's priority list. There's no Tony Blair (pre war) LOTO on the other side.
Unless people are resigned to the Tories being out of power forever then a spell in opposition even under Corbyn, who is very crap, would perhaps be a necessary price for a more positive Brexit outcome. They've had 9 years, which is not a bad run, and Brexit is so divisive it feels like it would be a miracle for a governing party to retain power after it is resolved, one way or another. In which case achieving the best outcome for the country is not pandering to the Tory membership, given most Tory MPs for years have indicated they think no deal is worse than a deal, and therefore no deal is worse for the country even though it is better for the party.
I wouldn't worry, "No deal" can't be got through parliament. And Bercow will make sure parliament is heard on the matter.
I am really not sure that is true. And even if it is true, then I think a Prime Minister Johnson would call a General Election on Who Decides Brexit. The Voters Or the Elite and I think he would win, pretty big, maybe very big, against a havering yet eurosceptic Corbyn.
Or, he will redux the Heath election and get the result: 'Not You Mate!'
Yes. Heath is the obvious counter-example. And salutary. But Heath was not facing Corbyn.
Has anyone faced someone less capable and suitable to be PM than Corbyn?
I am really not sure that is true. And even if it is true, then I think a Prime Minister Johnson would call a General Election on Who Decides Brexit. The Voters Or the Elite and I think he would win, pretty big, maybe very big, against a havering yet eurosceptic Corbyn.
May tried to call an election to show her Brexit plan was superior. Corbyn outmanoeuvred her by talking about everything except Brexit; I suspect he would do so again. It would be a mistake to assume that a GE could be called entirely about one issue - by its very nature a GE would have to cover health, education, the economy, transport and a variety of other matters. I don't see the Conservatives having a coherent policy on any of these any time soon.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
In the context of the United Kingdom! Where would the break up of the UK leave the "island nation" emotion that drove Brexit?
We would default to "England". Quite a few people would welcome that. I am not one of them. But I can see the logic. We would ideally be an insular, much more influential, truly self governing Switzerland, with better borders, but we might end up like Albania.
Big gamble. But as I say, all ways are gambles, from here.
"England" would be unequivocally a European nation in a way that "Britain" isn't, and we do not have the historical aloofness to play the role of a greater Switzerland.
What a load of twaddle. England has always been different. We are an island. Norway, Switzerland and Iceland do very nicely, offshore of Europe.
In truth, the Scots - if they voted indy - would be mad to jump into the EU, looking at the success of just-outside-the-EU nations, in north west Europe. I suspect they would do better free-riding. But it will be their choice. And for now, it is OUR choice, as Britons.
England is not an island. It is part of an island. And “always been different “? Exceptionalism is not a great look.
And since when was Switzerland or Norway “offshore”?
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
When the other potential PM is Corbyn, or God forbid Farage I think saving the Tories should be high up a leader's priority list. There's no Tony Blair (pre war) LOTO on the other side.
Unless people are resigned to the Tories being out of power forever then a spell in opposition even under Corbyn, who is very crap, would perhaps be a necessary price for a more positive Brexit outcome. They've had 9 years, which is not a bad run, and Brexit is so divisive it feels like it would be a miracle for a governing party to retain power after it is resolved, one way or another. In which case achieving the best outcome for the country is not pandering to the Tory membership, given most Tory MPs for years have indicated they think no deal is worse than a deal, and therefore no deal is worse for the country even though it is better for the party.
I wouldn't worry, "No deal" can't be got through parliament. And Bercow will make sure parliament is heard on the matter.
I am really not sure that is true. And even if it is true, then I think a Prime Minister Johnson would call a General Election on Who Decides Brexit. The Voters Or the Elite and I think he would win, pretty big, maybe very big, against a havering yet eurosceptic Corbyn.
Or, he will redux the Heath election and get the result: 'Not You Mate!'
Yes. Heath is the obvious counter-example. And salutary. But Heath was not facing Corbyn.
Has anyone faced someone less capable and suitable to be PM than Corbyn?
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
In the context of the United Kingdom! Where would the break up of the UK leave the "island nation" emotion that drove Brexit?
We would default to "England". Quite a few people would welcome that. I am not one of them. But I can see the logic. We would ideally be an insular, much more influential, truly self governing Switzerland, with better borders, but we might end up like Albania.
Big gamble. But as I say, all ways are gambles, from here.
"England" would be unequivocally a European nation in a way that "Britain" isn't, and we do not have the historical aloofness to play the role of a greater Switzerland.
What a load of twaddle. England has always been different. We are an island. Norway, Switzerland and Iceland do very nicely, offshore of Europe.
In truth, the Scots - if they voted indy - would be mad to jump into the EU, looking at the success of just-outside-the-EU nations, in north west Europe. I suspect they would do better free-riding. But it will be their choice. And for now, it is OUR choice, as Britons.
While you ended that with reference to us as Britons, the 'England has always been different. We are an island' juxtaposition looks, er, interesting.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
Saving the Tory party = saving the country is not an entirely ludicrous position, when the Opposition is led by Jeremy Corbyn, Seamus Milne and John McDonnell, and other assorted Stalinists, anti-Semites, Marxists, Islamists, traitors, racists, IRA-lovers, and Jew-baiters.
Except saving the Tory party can mean many things. It could mean merely staving off a total collapse in the face of the LDs and BXP, while still meaning they lose the election, if not to Labour outright then to enable Labour to win most seats and put together a majority.
So even on their own terms saving the party may not save the country. Boris may be able to limit the damage in that regard, and HYUFD is awfully excited by polls as ever, but it would be a risky gamble following what would need to be his failure to get a deal, as his stated preference, and possibly having some of his own MPs vote against him in a VONC, to assume the numbers suggesting he would retain most seats are guaranteed.
Not just most seats, Boris gets a majority with YouGov and it is then Labour with the crisis not the Tories as against a Boris led Tories Labour can only tie the LDs. If Corbyn Labour falls behind the LDs as even Foot narrowly avoided against the SDP/Alliance in 1983 then it becomes Labour with the existential crisis.
Boris has also never said No Deal is his preference but he will Leave the EU, Deal or No Deal. Boris' preference is a FTA, likely for GB even if that means shafting the DUP over the backstop
I am really not sure that is true. And even if it is true, then I think a Prime Minister Johnson would call a General Election on Who Decides Brexit. The Voters Or the Elite and I think he would win, pretty big, maybe very big, against a havering yet eurosceptic Corbyn.
May tried to call an election to show her Brexit plan was superior. Corbyn outmanoeuvred her by talking about everything except Brexit; I suspect he would do so again. It would be a mistake to assume that a GE could be called entirely about one issue - by its very nature a GE would have to cover health, education, the economy, transport and a variety of other matters. I don't see the Conservatives having a coherent policy on any of these any time soon.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
In the context of the United Kingdom! Where would the break up of the UK leave the "island nation" emotion that drove Brexit?
We would default to "England". Quite a few people would welcome that. I am not one of them. But I can see the logic. We would ideally be an insular, much more influential, truly self governing Switzerland, with better borders, but we might end up like Albania.
Big gamble. But as I say, all ways are gambles, from here.
"England" would be unequivocally a European nation in a way that "Britain" isn't, and we do not have the historical aloofness to play the role of a greater Switzerland.
What a load of twaddle. England has always been different. We are an island. Norway, Switzerland and Iceland do very nicely, offshore of Europe.
In truth, the Scots - if they voted indy - would be mad to jump into the EU, looking at the success of just-outside-the-EU nations, in north west Europe. I suspect they would do better free-riding. But it will be their choice. And for now, it is OUR choice, as Britons.
England is not an island. It is part of an island. And “always been different “? Exceptionalism is not a great look.
And since when was Switzerland or Norway “offshore”?
Are you fucking serious? You think offshore literally means "an outlying atoll" or something?
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
In the context of the United Kingdom! Where would the break up of the UK leave the "island nation" emotion that drove Brexit?
We would default to "England". Quite a few people would welcome that. I am not one of them. But I can see the logic. We would ideally be an insular, much more influential, truly self governing Switzerland, with better borders, but we might end up like Albania.
Big gamble. But as I say, all ways are gambles, from here.
"England" would be unequivocally a European nation in a way that "Britain" isn't, and we do not have the historical aloofness to play the role of a greater Switzerland.
What a load of twaddle. England has always been different. We are an island. Norway, Switzerland and Iceland do very nicely, offshore of Europe.
In truth, the Scots - if they voted indy - would be mad to jump into the EU, looking at the success of just-outside-the-EU nations, in north west Europe. I suspect they would do better free-riding. But it will be their choice. And for now, it is OUR choice, as Britons.
And “always been different “? Exceptionalism is not a great look.
Isn't the existence of any nation an example of exceptionalism to some degree, stating that these humans are different from those humans, even if they speak the same language, come from the same general area, have the same relgion etc etc?
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
Not now! We in Wales are now Remainers. Check the polling!
No you are not, Wales voted Brexit Party just last month, exactly like England did
Once again you manipulate polling evidence to suit your agenda. The Brexit Party got a higher percentage of votes compared to any other party. Leave parties did not win a majority.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
In the context of the United Kingdom! Where would the break up of the UK leave the "island nation" emotion that drove Brexit?
We would default to "England". Quite a few people would welcome that. I am not one of them. But I can see the logic. We would ideally be an insular, much more influential, truly self governing Switzerland, with better borders, but we might end up like Albania.
Big gamble. But as I say, all ways are gambles, from here.
"England" would be unequivocally a European nation in a way that "Britain" isn't, and we do not have the historical aloofness to play the role of a greater Switzerland.
What a load of twaddle. England has always been different. We are an island. Norway, Switzerland and Iceland do very nicely, offshore of Europe.
In truth, the Scots - if they voted indy - would be mad to jump into the EU, looking at the success of just-outside-the-EU nations, in north west Europe. I suspect they would do better free-riding. But it will be their choice. And for now, it is OUR choice, as Britons.
While you ended that with reference to us as Britons, the 'England has always been different. We are an island' juxtaposition looks, er, interesting.
Dullard. I said, as of now, without a vote for Scots indy, we are Britons. Simply a fact, After such a vote (which is possible, not not probable, let alone certain) we will be "the English".
I was a longtime lurker here. I am sure the IQ level was higher, back in the day. FFS.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
Saving the Tory party = saving the country is not an entirely ludicrous position, when the Opposition is led by Jeremy Corbyn, Seamus Milne and John McDonnell, and other assorted Stalinists, anti-Semites, Marxists, Islamists, traitors, racists, IRA-lovers, and Jew-baiters.
Except saving the Tory party can mean many things. It could mean merely staving off a total collapse in the face of the LDs and BXP, while still meaning they lose the election, if not to Labour outright then to enable Labour to win most seats and put together a majority.
So even on their own terms saving the party may not save the country. Boris may be able to limit the damage in that regard, and HYUFD is awfully excited by polls as ever, but it would be a risky gamble following what would need to be his failure to get a deal, as his stated preference, and possibly having some of his own MPs vote against him in a VONC, to assume the numbers suggesting he would retain most seats are guaranteed.
Not just most seats, Boris gets a majority with YouGov and it is then Labour with the crisis not the Tories as against a Boris led Tories Labour can only tie the LDs
As ever you ignored (rather than simply disagreed with) my opinion (and yes it is only an opinion) that the polling suggesting he would get a majority (or most seats, the point remains the same) would not manifest in a circumstance where he has to call a snap GE because he failed in what he claims is his primary aim, and facing possible defections from his own party as a result of seeking no deal. 'I failed in what I said would be easy, now back my plan B' is not necessarily as strong a pitch as you think it is.
So this War on Drugs really always was a war on poor people and drugs then?
Yes, if you're a lawyer or a journalist and partake in a line or two at the weekends that's fine. Smoking crack and shooting up on heroin are apparently much worse because of reasons
Frankly I struggle to get excited about politicians having taken drugs in the past. As long as they aren't getting high on the job when they have to make important decisions I don't give a toss what they do in their spare time, though I imagine most Tory party members feel differently.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
In the context of the United Kingdom! Where would the break up of the UK leave the "island nation" emotion that drove Brexit?
It was English nationalism that drove Brexit more than any 'island nation' emotion or a desire to return to the global free trading England of Drake and Raleigh. Scottish independence would just increase the Leave majority in the rest of GB
Ruth really isn’t a champion of Unionism. She isn’t a champion of anything. She is excellent at focussing on what she dislikes, but wibble-wobbles on what she likes (when she, very rarely, expresses a policy).
If she really championed Unionism she would try to persuade waverers/floating voters. She never does. She only ever addresses her core vote. That is not the path to the office of FM.
My first impression of Ruth Davidson was that she was a stand-up comedian who wandered into politics by mistake. The Rhona Cameron of the Tory party.
Hunt has tonight also been identified in news reports as having taken cannabis while backpacking in India
At this rate Boris is home and dry because all the other substance-addled candidates have had to drop out due to their spurious back-stories. Thank goodness Boris's cupboards are skeleton -free.
Everyone expects skeletons with Boris though and he has the charisma the others lack to brush them off
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
In the context of the United Kingdom! Where would the break up of the UK leave the "island nation" emotion that drove Brexit?
It was English nationalism that drove Brexit more than any 'island nation' emotion or a desire to return to the global free trading England of Drake and Raleigh. Scottish independence would just increase the Leave majority in the rest of GB
You are conflating the voters with the Brexit elite. Michael Gove didn't campaign for Brexit because of English nationalism, did he?
I am really not sure that is true. And even if it is true, then I think a Prime Minister Johnson would call a General Election on Who Decides Brexit. The Voters Or the Elite and I think he would win, pretty big, maybe very big, against a havering yet eurosceptic Corbyn.
May tried to call an election to show her Brexit plan was superior. Corbyn outmanoeuvred her by talking about everything except Brexit; I suspect he would do so again. It would be a mistake to assume that a GE could be called entirely about one issue - by its very nature a GE would have to cover health, education, the economy, transport and a variety of other matters. I don't see the Conservatives having a coherent policy on any of these any time soon.
Same as Corbyn then
I don't disagree. Johnson vs. Corbyn would at least be a more evenly matched campaign than May vs. Corbyn. I just don't see it resolving the Brexit problem though. If anything it could result in an even more hung Parliament, with more Lib Dems and a substantial number of Brexit Party MPs all demanding entirely different things and claiming a mandate for their preferred outcome, with no majority for anything again.
I am really not sure that is true. And even if it is true, then I think a Prime Minister Johnson would call a General Election on Who Decides Brexit. The Voters Or the Elite and I think he would win, pretty big, maybe very big, against a havering yet eurosceptic Corbyn.
May tried to call an election to show her Brexit plan was superior. Corbyn outmanoeuvred her by talking about everything except Brexit; I suspect he would do so again. It would be a mistake to assume that a GE could be called entirely about one issue - by its very nature a GE would have to cover health, education, the economy, transport and a variety of other matters. I don't see the Conservatives having a coherent policy on any of these any time soon.
Indeed. A snap election would present dangers for Boris. He is not a details man. Questions about Universal Credit, transport links in the North, education, renting policy, the environment, post 16 education, pensions etc, etc, from feisty members of the public. He is also not noted for his patience or good grace under pressure.
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine if England, Scotland, Wales and a united Ireland were members of the European Union in their own right. The positive kind of unionism you represent could instead be channelled into support for European integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
In the context of the United Kingdom! Where would the break up of the UK leave the "island nation" emotion that drove Brexit?
It was English nationalism that drove Brexit more than any 'island nation' emotion or a desire to return to the global free trading England of Drake and Raleigh. Scottish independence would just increase the Leave majority in the rest of GB
- “... a desire to return to the global free trading England of Drake and Raleigh.”
Not often a PB post induces a proper guffaw, but you just managed it. Cheers!
No - never ever taken drugs and virtually TT but being married to a Scot with lots of Scottish relatives we want to keep the Union. Ruth is the champion of Unionism
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occasions
Imagine integration.
It certainly would not in the case of England and Wales both of which voted Leave
In the context of the United Kingdom! Where would the break up of the UK leave the "island nation" emotion that drove Brexit?
We wo
Big gamble. But as I say, all ways are gambles, from here.
"Enrland.
What a load oce, as Britons.
While you ended that with reference to us as Britons, the 'England has always been different. We are an island' juxtaposition looks, er, interesting.
Dullard. I said, as of now, without a vote for Scots indy, we are Britons. Simply a fact, After such a vote (which is possible, not not probable, let alone certain) we will be "the English".
I was a longtime lurker here. I am sure the IQ level was higher, back in the day. FFS.
If you wish to call people dullards then don't follow a sentence saying England is different with one saying 'we' are an island. That you object to being made fun of for what is at best an awkwardly placed sentence with an easy unintended intepretation is your problem. Either take more care with what you meant or don't get so prissy about it.
That you reached for the insults when I merely said it was an interesting choice of words speaks volumes I should think. Everyone loses their rag occasionally, myself being no exception, but getting all aggressive and pouty because your sentence structuring was silly is not even funny, it's just lame. It was a tease, not an attack for heaven's sake.
And I am sure my IQ, whatever it is, is as low as it ever was. Fortunately I don't mind if I appear silly while writing extemperaneously on an intenet forum.
The two people who need to be fearful of Boris winning are Farage and Corbyn
Just about the only candidate that can reasonable be able to take votes of both
That implies Johnson is in pole position simply because he is seen as the candidate to save the Conservative Party as opposed to the candidate who can save the country. Desperate days!
That is precisely what is going on. Some MPs have apparently even admitted, priviately, the saving the party issue is their only reason for backing him. Of course, we all expect politicians to equate what is good for their party obviously being what is good for the country, but given the problems in the party delivering what Johnson and co are promising, and thus they may not genuinely think they can do it, it truly is about party management not what can be done for the country.
When the other potential PM is Corbyn, or God forbid Farage I think saving the Tories should be high up a leader's priority list. There's no Tony Blair (pre war) LOTO on the other side.
Unless people are resigned to the Tories being out of power forever then a spell in opposition even under Corbyn, who is very crap, would perhaps be a necessary price for a more positive Brexit outcome. They've had 9 years, which is not a bad run, and Brexit is so divisive it feels like it would be a miracle for a governing party to retain power after it is resolved, one way or another. In which case achieving the best outcome for the country is not pandering to the Tory membership, given most Tory MPs for years have indicated they think no deal is worse than a deal, and therefore no deal is worse for the country even though it is better for the party.
I wouldn't worry, "No deal" can't be got through parliament. And Bercow will make sure parliament is heard on the matter.
I am really not sure that is true. And even if it is true, then I think a Prime Minister Johnson would call a General Election on Who Decides Brexit. The Voters Or the Elite and I think he would win, pretty big, maybe very big, against a havering yet eurosceptic Corbyn.
Or, he will redux the Heath election and get the result: 'Not You Mate!'
Yes. Heath is the obvious counter-example. And salutary. But Heath was not facing Corbyn.
And yet Corbyn got the second biggest Labour share since Wilson. Don't get me wrong, I am no fan. But he has been constantly under estimated.
Hunt has tonight also been identified in news reports as having taken cannabis while backpacking in India
At this rate Boris is home and dry because all the other substance-addled candidates have had to drop out due to their spurious back-stories. Thank goodness Boris's cupboards are skeleton -free.
Everyone expects skeletons with Boris though and he has the charisma the others lack to brush them off
So if a politician has indulged in some heinous crime, it won't count if he/she can bat it away with a spot of latin. Cool!
Hunt has tonight also been identified in news reports as having taken cannabis while backpacking in India
At this rate Boris is home and dry because all the other substance-addled candidates have had to drop out due to their spurious back-stories. Thank goodness Boris's cupboards are skeleton -free.
"We can all spend an awfully long time going over lots of stuff that I’ve written over the last 30 years... all of which in my view have been taken out of context, but never mind... I’m afraid that there is such a rich thesaurus now of things that I have said that have been one way or another, through what alchemy I do not know, somehow misconstrued that it would take me too long to engage in a full global itinerary of apology to all concerned." - Boris, July 2016
Comments
If Nicola was pro Union she would get our support as indeed many years ago when we lived in Scotland we did vote SNP on occassions
Hunt: Look, Brexit must be delivered, but there are practical realities to the situation that require careful management and I have a not at all hopeless plan (I think) to ensure we leave the EU and avoid an election at a time of internal difficulty for the party.
Boris: *pauses**belches* BREXIT!!!!!!
(Crowd goes wild)
Boris: BREXIT!!!! Latin phrase, colloquialism, (please think of me like Churchill). BREXIT!!!
In fairness I don't think Hunt is particularly realistic either, though I was surprised he spoke against no deal.
Like the rest of them she was as high as a kite
If Boris goes to the Commons and says he's going to the EU to seek a new deal, then Corbyn calls a VONC immediately then those who have quit their parties can abstain while reserving the right to vote against Boris if he switches to No Deal.
Madness? Maybe. Do-able in parliament? Who knows.
But I can see the political logic. It is just about the only course for the Tories.
And there is always the very small chance that the EU blinks, and then he wins everything, everywhere, and will have statues erected to him, in small town squares.
If she really championed Unionism she would try to persuade waverers/floating voters. She never does. She only ever addresses her core vote. That is not the path to the office of FM.
Hard to see anything stopping him , unless someone has a tape of him going into a racist tirade . Labour want Bozo .
They have a host of material ready to go. And of course he will cost them a lot of votes in seats with a high proportion of ethnic voters . The Muslim vote especially is crucial in many seats.
There's no Tony Blair (pre war) LOTO on the other side.
So even on their own terms saving the party may not save the country. Boris may be able to limit the damage in that regard, and HYUFD is awfully excited by polls as ever, but it would be a risky gamble following what would need to be his failure to get a deal, as his stated preference, and possibly having some of his own MPs vote against him in a VONC, to assume the numbers suggesting he would retain most seats are guaranteed.
Anyway you seem sold on him.
On moving to Edinburgh and meeting my wife I was very pro the Union as indeed she was but in those days labour ruled throughout and there was no question of independence,. I like Nicola and some of her policies but I cannot support independence so Ruth is the best source to defend it but of course she is not going to be First Minister anytime soon
If the polling is correct Labour certainly should not want Bozo, he beats Corbyn with an overall Tory majority unlike any other Tory contender. Hence in a recent Labourlist poll Boris was overwhelmingly the contender Labour Party members felt it would be hardest for Corbyn to beat in a general election and who Labour activists most feared.
Boris twice won London too which is full of ethnic minorities, something no other Tory has achieved
https://labourlist.org/2019/05/why-labour-activists-fear-boris-johnson-as-the-next-tory-leader/
All positions are now an existential threat to the Union. But that's no change, It was existentially threatened since Salmond nearly won his referendum. So now we will probably have an English PM - Boris Johnson - pursuing a different course. It is up to the Scots how they respond, and it is their sovereign right to quit if they wish. This charade of seeking concord is close to a much-needed end.
Does anyone want to break it to them just what a big fat slice of irrelevance this is?
Big gamble. But as I say, all ways are gambles, from here.
https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1137278726721462272
They don’t make nationalists like her anymore. She’d probably think of the modern party as a bunch of jessies.
In truth, the Scots - if they voted indy - would be mad to jump into the EU, looking at the success of just-outside-the-EU nations, in north west Europe. I suspect they would do better free-riding. But it will be their choice. And for now, it is OUR choice, as Britons.
And since when was Switzerland or Norway “offshore”?
Boris has also never said No Deal is his preference but he will Leave the EU, Deal or No Deal. Boris' preference is a FTA, likely for GB even if that means shafting the DUP over the backstop
Good night all.
May I wish everyone a pleasant nights rest
Good night folks
I was a longtime lurker here. I am sure the IQ level was higher, back in the day. FFS.
Frankly I struggle to get excited about politicians having taken drugs in the past. As long as they aren't getting high on the job when they have to make important decisions I don't give a toss what they do in their spare time, though I imagine most Tory party members feel differently.
https://twitter.com/LeftieK13/status/1137490655700226051
He is also not noted for his patience or good grace under pressure.
Not often a PB post induces a proper guffaw, but you just managed it. Cheers!
That you reached for the insults when I merely said it was an interesting choice of words speaks volumes I should think. Everyone loses their rag occasionally, myself being no exception, but getting all aggressive and pouty because your sentence structuring was silly is not even funny, it's just lame. It was a tease, not an attack for heaven's sake.
And I am sure my IQ, whatever it is, is as low as it ever was. Fortunately I don't mind if I appear silly while writing extemperaneously on an intenet forum.
- Boris, July 2016