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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 22,358

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    The Tory party is presented with a choice between two Old Etonians. One has a genuine vision of what is needed in these times - is clearly very gifted - is guided by the needs of all his countrymen. A truly good man.
    The other is a shyster of the worst kind at so many levels which extend far beyond politics. A malign individual guided by nothing more than personal self interest and completely devoid of principle or morality.
    We know who the Tories will choose - and that choice will convey so much about what they really amount to as human beings.A lower form of life indeed.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They cannot hide their histrionic loathing of Boris (which largely stems from the simple fact he delivered Brexit), and when Remainers criticise him they go totally over the top. I mean "a shyster of the worst kind at so many levels which extend far beyond politics"? It comes across as nuts. Boris may be a womanising wanker, but he isn't Mussolini.

    See Matthew Parris, passim. On every other issue Parris is measured and clever, when it comes to Boris he talks darkly and weirdly of conspiracies, and rants and foams about Boris's moral failings.

    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    No, I am AM SeanT!
    Corrected for you.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 32,000
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Have ComRes fucked it. This just seems bonkers

    More from Comedy Results:

    Makes me feel sad that 34% say no to that.
    I would definitely say no to that, it's very dumb.

    Small countries get more benefits from low taxes and regulations than big countries, because they get more revenue from business coming in from other countries *relative to the domestic revenue they forego*. This is why US companies end up incorporated in Delaware not Texas, and the Delaware of the EU is Estonia not Germany. It's also why tax havens are little places like the Cayman Islands, not big ones like Russia.

    Britain is a fairly big country, so if it's trying to set tax rates to beat small countries, it's doing it wrong.
    That's a very astute observation.
    Very.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 12,887
    Saj did well. If I were Tory I’d be tempted.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 1,779

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    The Tory party is presented with a choice between two Old Etonians. One has a genuine vision of what is needed in these times - is clearly very gifted - is guided by the needs of all his countrymen. A truly good man.
    The other is a shyster of the worst kind at so many levels which extend far beyond politics. A malign individual guided by nothing more than personal self interest and completely devoid of principle or morality.
    We know who the Tories will choose - and that choice will convey so much about what they really amount to as human beings.A lower form of life indeed.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They cannot hide their histrionic loathing of Boris (which largely stems from the simple fact he delivered Brexit), and when Remainers criticise him they go totally over the top. I mean "a shyster of the worst kind at so many levels which extend far beyond politics"? It comes across as nuts. Boris may be a womanising wanker, but he isn't Mussolini.

    See Matthew Parris, passim. On every other issue Parris is measured and clever, when it comes to Boris he talks darkly and weirdly of conspiracies, and rants and foams about Boris's moral failings.

    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited June 12
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    The Toryed.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They cannot hide their histrionic loathing of Boris (which largely stems from the simple fact he delivered Brexit), and when Remainers criticise him they go totally over the top. I mean "a shyster of the worst kind at so many levels which extend far beyond politics"? It comes across as nuts. Boris may be a womanising wanker, but he isn't Mussolini.

    See Matthew Parris, passim. On every other issue Parris is measured and clever, when it comes to Boris he talks darkly and weirdly of conspiracies, and rants and foams about Boris's moral failings.

    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    If an individual is an MP, Cllr or party member or just a member of the public they have every right to criticise an individual who is a public figure. The only thing that curtails this right is libel laws, harassment or threats of violence. If Boris wants to be PM, he has to run the gauntlet of public opinion on his behaviour in the past, present and future. Johnson is being gifted the Premiership by the Brexit supporting media - You may be influenced by it but some of us can see past it and see his true characteristics for what they represent. Boris is a shyster of the first order - his leadership will end in massive failure....
    I agree with all of that. And Boris may well be the clownish failure you predict.

    My point is more that high profile media figures overstep in their criticism of him, and come across as partisan, or mad (like Parris)

    e.g. see this tweet by Beth Rigby of Sky.



    "You brought shame on your party" is embedded in her question. It is a presumed fact. That comes across badly. I think.
    On balance I prefer the fact that Boris is being given hard questions by some of the media compared to the sycophantic love in that the Brexit supporting media publish! I don't think Sky for instance are any less cutting in their treatment of Gove for instance when compared to Johnson.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 12,178
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Have ComRes fucked it. This just seems bonkers

    More from Comedy Results:

    Makes me feel sad that 34% say no to that.
    I would definitely say no to that, it's very dumb.

    Small countries get more benefits from low taxes and regulations than big countries, because they get more revenue from business coming in from other countries *relative to the domestic revenue they forego*. This is why US companies end up incorporated in Delaware not Texas, and the Delaware of the EU is Estonia not Germany. It's also why tax havens are little places like the Cayman Islands, not big ones like Russia.

    Britain is a fairly big country, so if it's trying to set tax rates to beat small countries, it's doing it wrong.
    That's a very astute observation.
    It is indeed.

    Singapore in the Atlantic cannot work for the whole country, but could work for an independent London.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    PClipp said:

    Omnium said:

    kle4 said:

    They have made it quite clear through their actions that they would rather have the most chaotic Brexit possible than personally contribute to delivering any other Brexit deal. They might yet succeed and get Remain, and they have no problem with no deal being risked if that is achievable.

    Precisely.
    The only people in this whole farce who have acted honourably are the SNP and ERG.
    The DUP to my mind have been the most consistent. They're a bunch of loons normally, but on Brexit they've been as straight-batted as anyone.
    ERG have not acted wisely or honorably.
    NP have been disingenuous from start to finish. I will say thought that their behavior is understandably so in a Scottish context, but horrid in a UK-wide view.
    The LDs have simply been beyond the pale. A complete disregard that the public's vote counted for anything.
    If it was fixed by the Russians, the Lib Dems were quite right to ignore it.
    Yes, of course!
    I remember being brainwashed by Moscow's evil Mind-Control Ray even as I voted in the polling booth! :lol:
    A bit strange that! They worked things by weight of money - which Mrs May refused to have properly investigated. It was not a clean referendum at all.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 32,508
    PClipp said:

    PClipp said:

    Omnium said:

    kle4 said:

    They have made it quite clear through their actions that they would rather have the most chaotic Brexit possible than personally contribute to delivering any other Brexit deal. They might yet succeed and get Remain, and they have no problem with no deal being risked if that is achievable.

    Precisely.
    The only people in this whole farce who have acted honourably are the SNP and ERG.
    The DUP to my mind have been the most consistent. They're a bunch of loons normally, but on Brexit they've been as straight-batted as anyone.
    ERG have not acted wisely or honorably.
    NP have been disingenuous from start to finish. I will say thought that their behavior is understandably so in a Scottish context, but horrid in a UK-wide view.
    The LDs have simply been beyond the pale. A complete disregard that the public's vote counted for anything.
    If it was fixed by the Russians, the Lib Dems were quite right to ignore it.
    Yes, of course!
    I remember being brainwashed by Moscow's evil Mind-Control Ray even as I voted in the polling booth! :lol:
    A bit strange that! They worked things by weight of money - which Mrs May refused to have properly investigated. It was not a clean referendum at all.
    Yeah, I remember the £9 million the Russians used to fund the pro-Remain leaflets sent to every household :)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,150
    edited June 12
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They cannot hide their histrionic loathing of Boris (which largely stems from the simple fact he delivered Brexit), and when Remainers criticise him they go totally over the top. I mean "a shyster of the worst kind at so many levels which extend far beyond politics"? It comes across as nuts. Boris may be a womanising wanker, but he isn't Mussolini.

    See Matthew Parris, passim. On every other issue Parris is measured and clever, when it comes to Boris he talks darkly and weirdly of conspiracies, and rants and foams about Boris's moral failings.

    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 12,385
    AndyJS said:

    The betting odds are getting even stranger: Jeremy Hunt is about to drop below Andrea Leadsom.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.125574963

    Looking at the charts for the various candidates I note the absolutely stark racing unbelievable figure of Ruth Davidson having had an implied 20% chance of winning at one point.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 25,953

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They cannot hide their histrionic loathing of Boris (which largely stems from the simple fact he delivered Brexit), and when Remainers criticise him they go totally over the top. I mean "a shyster of the worst kind at so many levels which extend far beyond politics"? It comes across as nuts. Boris may be a womanising wanker, but he isn't Mussolini.

    See Matthew Parris, passim. On every other issue Parris is measured and clever, when it comes to Boris he talks darkly and weirdly of conspiracies, and rants and foams about Boris's moral failings.

    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    Why do you find a painting of Byron as Byronic’s (geddit) avatar offensive?

    Are you thinking of Viceroy/Powell?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,030

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They
    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    All I can say is that you all seem mildly obsessed with this guy, to the point of crankiness. He must have been quite something.

    Why is my avatar offensive?? It's a well-known English romantic poet! Also gay, and sometimes transvestite, so he gets LGBT points.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 12,178
    On topic, it is hard to see Warren beating Trump, but easy to see her beating Biden. Her odds as Dem nominee are getting to be a bit short. Still a long way to go.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 1,646
    edited June 12
    HYUFD said:

    If Boris does win I'm wondering how clever Grieve and his fellow Remain backing MPs who rejected May's very soft Brexit will feel.

    Even Ken Clarke backed it FFS.

    Theresa May’s Brexit was not very soft. It was a managed hard Brexit.

    Britain is now into chaotic hard Brexit territory.
    According to Yougov 52% of Leavers think staying in the Single Market and Customs Union would be a bad outcome from Brexit and only 13% a good outcome, 28% of Remainers though think it would be a good outcome and only 20% a bad outcome

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/11/brits-oppose-proroguing-parliament-force-through-n
    Interesting figures.
    For anyone who's looking to bring the country back together (a forlorn hope for the Tory leadership contenders who actually have a chance), there's only one option for which "Good outcome" plus "acceptable compromise" outweights "Bad outcome"

    The four options:
    No Deal: Good+acceptable = 37%; Bad=49% (NB - Very Bad was 37%, equalling Very good + fairly good + acceptable put together)
    Withdrawal Agreement: Good+acceptable = 35%; Bad=44% (NB - Very Bad was only 19%)
    Alternative - Single Market plus Customs Union: Good+acceptable = 47%; Bad=32% (NB - Very Bad was only 17%)
    Second referendum plus Remaining after all: Good+acceptable = 45%; Bad=45% (NB - Very Bad was a chunky 36%)

    So one option stands out at having plurality acceptance over dislike, and minimal hatred. It is, of course, doomed, as the Conservative Party MPs and membership will be solely focused on the support from existing Tories, potential Brexit Partiers, and Leavers. Reconciling a divided nation comes a long way back. (Stewart has doomed his own campaign by talking about such trifles)
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They cannot hide their histrionic loathing of Boris (which largely stems from the simple fact he delivered Brexit), and when Remainers criticise him they go totally over the top. I mean "a shyster of the worst kind at so many levels which extend far beyond politics"? It comes across as nuts. Boris may be a womanising wanker, but he isn't Mussolini.

    See Matthew Parris, passim. On every other issue Parris is measured and clever, when it comes to Boris he talks darkly and weirdly of conspiracies, and rants and foams about Boris's moral failings.

    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    Who is the avatar?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,030

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They cannot hide their histrionic loathing of Boris (which largely stems from the simple fact he delivered Brexit), and when Remainers criticise him they go totally over the top. I mean "a shyster of the worst kind at so many levels which extend far beyond politics"? It comes across as nuts. Boris may be a womanising wanker, but he isn't Mussolini.

    See Matthew Parris, passim. On every other issue Parris is measured and clever, when it comes to Boris he talks darkly and weirdly of conspiracies, and rants and foams about Boris's moral failings.

    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    Who is the avatar?
    Lord Byron. Duhhhhhhhh
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited June 12
    JackW said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    If Boris does win I'm wondering how clever Grieve and his fellow Remain backing MPs who rejected May's very soft Brexit will feel.

    Even Ken Clarke backed it FFS.

    They have made it quite clear through their actions that they would rather have the most chaotic Brexit possible than personally contribute to delivering any other Brexit deal. They might yet succeed and get Remain, and they have no problem with no deal being risked if that is achievable.
    Precisely.

    The only people in this whole farce who have acted honourably are the SNP and ERG.
    Bollocks
    That's totally unacceptable.

    The single word is very passe. We've had Bollocks To BREXIT and Bollocks To Bercow

    So what is it .... Bollocks To ...... ?!?!?
    Bad manners and rudeness?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 29,922


    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.

    If it IS SeanT, he's become a zen master of tolerance.

    Nah - it's not SeanT. Byronic hasn't once bragged about the view from his 7-star hotel suite. Or the extensive (and expensive) wine list he is perusing on expenses.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,150
    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They
    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    All I can say is that you all seem mildly obsessed with this guy, to the point of crankiness. He must have been quite something.

    Why is my avatar offensive?? It's a well-known English romantic poet! Also gay, and sometimes transvestite, so he gets LGBT points.
    Many apologies - it seems I have egg-on-face anyway - I find another poster's avatar offensive, not yours.

    More care needed on my part - sorry!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,150

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They cannot hide their histrionic loathing of Boris (which largely stems from the simple fact he delivered Brexit), and when Remainers criticise him they go totally over the top. I mean "a shyster of the worst kind at so many levels which extend far beyond politics"? It comes across as nuts. Boris may be a womanising wanker, but he isn't Mussolini.

    See Matthew Parris, passim. On every other issue Parris is measured and clever, when it comes to Boris he talks darkly and weirdly of conspiracies, and rants and foams about Boris's moral failings.

    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    Who is the avatar?
    My bad - see other post :disappointed:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,150
    Charles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They cannot hide their histrionic loathing of Boris (which largely stems from the simple fact he delivered Brexit), and when Remainers criticise him they go totally over the top. I mean "a shyster of the worst kind at so many levels which extend far beyond politics"? It comes across as nuts. Boris may be a womanising wanker, but he isn't Mussolini.

    See Matthew Parris, passim. On every other issue Parris is measured and clever, when it comes to Boris he talks darkly and weirdly of conspiracies, and rants and foams about Boris's moral failings.

    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    Why do you find a painting of Byron as Byronic’s (geddit) avatar offensive?

    Are you thinking of Viceroy/Powell?
    I was indeed, yes. Have apologised to Byronic.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 6,294
    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They
    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    All I can say is that you all seem mildly obsessed with this guy, to the point of crankiness. He must have been quite something.

    Why is my avatar offensive?? It's a well-known English romantic poet! Also gay, and sometimes transvestite, so he gets LGBT points.
    Point of order!
    Byron was far from being gay. He would be firmly in the B camp. He had more women than I could shake my stick at.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 2,324

    eek said:

    eek said:

    AndyJS said:

    eek said:

    On one level off topic. On another level probably the most important thing you will read all year

    Don't understand this. What was so special about Google Reader?
    Everyone moved to the echo chambers of twitter and Facebook where eyes could be bought which has resulted in a shift towards extremes.

    There is slightly more to it than that but the move towards Facebook and Twitter has reslultec in people reinforcing their personal biases
    I don't ever remember using Google Reader!
    You didn’t but RSS was the backbone of the general news feeds that yahoo and other pages used. You would have used it without realising to create a page with links to 40 different websites all with news on topics that interested you.

    As I stated below the loss of RSS probably contributed to the growth of twitter and Facebook. The problem with social media is that it creates echo chambers that reinforce viewpoints and worse advertising may push those things towards extremes.
    I see now that eek is short for geek.

    I for one have never created a page with links to 40 different websites all with news on topics that interested me. I just go to the free ones I trust and like: BBC and the Guardian.
    Still lots of RSS around. I use Newsify on my iPad to follow my favourite sites.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,030

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They
    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    All I can say is that you all seem mildly obsessed with this guy, to the point of crankiness. He must have been quite something.

    Why is my avatar offensive?? It's a well-known English romantic poet! Also gay, and sometimes transvestite, so he gets LGBT points.
    Many apologies - it seems I have egg-on-face anyway - I find another poster's avatar offensive, not yours.

    More care needed on my part - sorry!
    Apology accepted. The painting is one Lord Byron commissioned of himself in Albanian dress (as was his wont, in his normal self effacing way). It is quite famous.

    https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/byron-portrait#
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,150


    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.

    If it IS SeanT, he's become a zen master of tolerance.

    Nah - it's not SeanT. Byronic hasn't once bragged about the view from his 7-star hotel suite. Or the extensive (and expensive) wine list he is perusing on expenses.
    Indeed - nor his '35 years younger than him' wife.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 22,358

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    Ultra-Remainers who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    It doesn’t matter in the sense that anyone is entitled to change their username, and plenty of posters here choose to be anonymous. Provided someone isn’t hiding behind a handle to disguise their stake in the game as being active in politics, I don’t see why we should be bothered? But the dishonesty from a longstanding regular is irritating, in the face of what is completely obvious to other regulars. The views, style, vocabulary are all the same, including giveaway tics like the single words in CAPS and the two word sentences, and especially not being able to kick the writers’ habit of drawing on a wider range of words and phrases than all the rest of us use in daily life. Even the switch to being a remainer couldn’t stick more than a few days!
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 2,324
    edited June 12


    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.

    If it IS SeanT, he's become a zen master of tolerance.

    Nah - it's not SeanT. Byronic hasn't once bragged about the view from his 7-star hotel suite. Or the extensive (and expensive) wine list he is perusing on expenses.
    Or bedroom exercises with his hot young wife...

    But for me the clincher is that Byronic hasn't made any tearful abjurations of Brexit when something goes slightly awry followed by dramatic reassertions of faith after sobering up.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,030
    dixiedean said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They
    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risSean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    All I can say is that you all seem mildly obsessed with this guy, to the point of crankiness. He must have been quite something.

    Why is my avatar offensive?? It's a well-known English romantic poet! Also gay, and sometimes transvestite, so he gets LGBT points.
    Point of order!
    Byron was far from being gay. He would be firmly in the B camp. He had more women than I could shake my stick at.
    Yes, you are correct, I must now apologise to Lord Byron.

    He was pansexual, I think. He shagged literally anything. Including innumerable Greek and Balkan boys, lots of Venetian whores, and his half sister. He blamed his hypersexuality on a wet nurse who fellated him age 2.

    Maybe it is the wrong avatar.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,150
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They
    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    All I can say is that you all seem mildly obsessed with this guy, to the point of crankiness. He must have been quite something.

    Why is my avatar offensive?? It's a well-known English romantic poet! Also gay, and sometimes transvestite, so he gets LGBT points.
    Many apologies - it seems I have egg-on-face anyway - I find another poster's avatar offensive, not yours.

    More care needed on my part - sorry!
    Apology accepted. The painting is one Lord Byron commissioned of himself in Albanian dress (as was his wont, in his normal self effacing way). It is quite famous.

    https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/byron-portrait#
    Yes indeed and a perfectly reasonable choice. An undeniably great poet.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 4,160
    I have apologised
    brendan16 said:

    JackW said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    If Boris does win I'm wondering how clever Grieve and his fellow Remain backing MPs who rejected May's very soft Brexit will feel.

    Even Ken Clarke backed it FFS.

    They have made it quite clear through their actions that they would rather have the most chaotic Brexit possible than personally contribute to delivering any other Brexit deal. They might yet succeed and get Remain, and they have no problem with no deal being risked if that is achievable.
    Precisely.

    The only people in this whole farce who have acted honourably are the SNP and ERG.
    Bollocks
    That's totally unacceptable.

    The single word is very passe. We've had Bollocks To BREXIT and Bollocks To Bercow

    So what is it .... Bollocks To ...... ?!?!?
    Bad manners and rudeness?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 1,779
    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:



    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They
    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.

    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    All I can say is that you all seem mildly obsessed with this guy, to the point of crankiness. He must have been quite something.

    Why is my avatar offensive?? It's a well-known English romantic poet! Also gay, and sometimes transvestite, so he gets LGBT points.
    Bah, it's just little things like the way you both sometimes end your sentences with a word. Yeah.

    I'm fairly certain you are the only two posters on here I have ever seen say "ta" for thanks, but am happy to be corrected.

    The similarities are uncanny, but that's the whole point of the concept deja vu anyway. You think you've seen something before, because it's close, but you haven't... someone reminds you of someone else.

    If you do turn out to be SeanT I won't be surprised but I won't be hounding you about it either. It makes no difference to me one way or the other.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,150
    Byronic said:

    dixiedean said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Boris has the Big Mo now. He has won more today than 4 candidates have so far. Some MPs will back him now not because they think he is best choice but because they think he will win.

    He will.
    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They
    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.
    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risSean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    All I can say is that you all seem mildly obsessed with this guy, to the point of crankiness. He must have been quite something.

    Why is my avatar offensive?? It's a well-known English romantic poet! Also gay, and sometimes transvestite, so he gets LGBT points.
    Point of order!
    Byron was far from being gay. He would be firmly in the B camp. He had more women than I could shake my stick at.
    Yes, you are correct, I must now apologise to Lord Byron.

    He was pansexual, I think. He shagged literally anything. Including innumerable Greek and Balkan boys, lots of Venetian whores, and his half sister. He blamed his hypersexuality on a wet nurse who fellated him age 2.

    Maybe it is the wrong avatar.
    Now you're making it sound like an avatar SeanT would have chosen!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 29,922


    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.

    If it IS SeanT, he's become a zen master of tolerance.

    Nah - it's not SeanT. Byronic hasn't once bragged about the view from his 7-star hotel suite. Or the extensive (and expensive) wine list he is perusing on expenses.
    Indeed - nor his '35 years younger than him' wife.
    And the fabulous sex they have......
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 3,973
    No surprise to see today’s Labour motion bite the dust .

    It was never a shoe in as some in the media made out . Quite a few opposed to no deal have already declared for candidates , the leadership challenge is muddying the waters and a big issue is it was a Labour motion not a proper cross party one .

    And just scraping a win would have made it unlikely that it could have overcome a bigger blowback on the 25th June .

    The last attempt to push a Bill through in this manner only scraped over the line on the way to the Lords by one vote .

    Battle will recommence in September where I expect the drama we saw in March will pale into insignificance compared to what’s likely to occur then .
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 1,734
    I do miss SeanT. I don't think I ever agreed with a single thing he said, but he always said it very well.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,150


    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.

    If it IS SeanT, he's become a zen master of tolerance.

    Nah - it's not SeanT. Byronic hasn't once bragged about the view from his 7-star hotel suite. Or the extensive (and expensive) wine list he is perusing on expenses.
    Indeed - nor his '35 years younger than him' wife.
    And the fabulous sex they have......
    Yeah, although we've never heard Mrs SeanT say that have we?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 25,953
    edited June 12
    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:



    Ultra-Remainers like you are making a major tactical error; maybe a strategic error.

    They
    This doesn't persuade anyone who does not already agree. It makes Parris look mildly unhinged. And an entire subset of the chatterati are already losing it, just like Parris - simply because Boris.

    The entirely predictable result - unless Remainers are very careful, and rein it in - will be a growing sympathy for Boris, and whatever he does. Stupid.

    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...
    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    All I can say is that you all seem mildly obsessed with this guy, to the point of crankiness. He must have been quite something.

    Why is my avatar offensive?? It's a well-known English romantic poet! Also gay, and sometimes transvestite, so he gets LGBT points.
    Bah, it's just little things like the way you both sometimes end your sentences with a word. Yeah.

    I'm fairly certain you are the only two posters on here I have ever seen say "ta" for thanks, but am happy to be corrected.

    The similarities are uncanny, but that's the whole point of the concept deja vu anyway. You think you've seen something before, because it's close, but you haven't... someone reminds you of someone else.

    If you do turn out to be SeanT I won't be surprised but I won't be hounding you about it either. It makes no difference to me one way or the other.
    I’ve been known to use “ta muchly” occasionally
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 2,324
    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    IanB2 said:



    Just a reminder that in disguise you are supposed to be pretending to be a remainer...

    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.
    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    All I can say is that you all seem mildly obsessed with this guy, to the point of crankiness. He must have been quite something.

    Why is my avatar offensive?? It's a well-known English romantic poet! Also gay, and sometimes transvestite, so he gets LGBT points.
    Bah, it's just little things like the way you both sometimes end your sentences with a word. Yeah.

    I'm fairly certain you are the only two posters on here I have ever seen say "ta" for thanks, but am happy to be corrected.

    The similarities are uncanny, but that's the whole point of the concept deja vu anyway. You think you've seen something before, because it's close, but you haven't... someone reminds you of someone else.

    If you do turn out to be SeanT I won't be surprised but I won't be hounding you about it either. It makes no difference to me one way or the other.
    Pretty sure I've used 'ta' here, and I'm not SeanT and I don't even play him on TV.

    Sometimes two random people can have quite similar mannerisms and/or personalities. My wife once had a male French student who she says had a personality almost identical to her sister's.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 9,114
    He really needs to take a break
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 1,779
    Charles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    lol. I get that this is your thing, and turns you on. Go for it.

    Not that anyone cares but I reckon Byronic is SeanT too (IP addresses are not hard to hide). Syntax and vocabulary are too alike.
    He really isn't.
    Honestly, I'm not bothered whether he is or whether he isn't. But if he's not, it's genuinely an amazing coincidence, given some of the similarities in sentence structure and vocabulary I've spotted. I don't however believe Byronic is a male model, as I've met a few...
    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.
    All I can say is that you all seem mildly obsessed with this guy, to the point of crankiness. He must have been quite something.

    Why is my avatar offensive?? It's a well-known English romantic poet! Also gay, and sometimes transvestite, so he gets LGBT points.
    Bah, it's just little things like the way you both sometimes end your sentences with a word. Yeah.

    I'm fairly certain you are the only two posters on here I have ever seen say "ta" for thanks, but am happy to be corrected.

    The similarities are uncanny, but that's the whole point of the concept deja vu anyway. You think you've seen something before, because it's close, but you haven't... someone reminds you of someone else.

    If you do turn out to be SeanT I won't be surprised but I won't be hounding you about it either. It makes no difference to me one way or the other.
    I’ve been known to use “ta muchly” occasionally
    Fair enough. But I think you speak very differently.

    What we should all do, to prove this once and for all, is put SeanT's and Byronic's posts through one of those essay plagairism boondoggles they use at universities these days to determine whether or not one has copied the other.

    My view is that it's probably deja vu, one speaks so much like the other that they seem alike. But I certainly wouldn't rule out the theory that they are one and the same.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,030
    Floater said:

    He really needs to take a break
    Yes, he has gone nuts, over Brexit. Like so many. It is a trifle sad.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 11,150
    SeanT is still active on Twitter I see...

    I was quite amused by this:


  • nico67nico67 Posts: 3,973
    The Comres question on tax and business shows how clueless most of the public are.

    Lowest tax , business friendly is basically capitalism on steroids with crap public services but of course the public see the original statement as a positive .

    These types of poll questions will be mana from heaven as the Mogg death cult tell everyone the public support being screwed.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 22,358
    ”Robert Saunders, a historian of democracy, writes in his introduction to the series, British Conservatism has “broken with three of its most important traditions. It has stopped thinking; it has stopped ‘conserving’; and it has lost its suspicion of ideology.”
  • RobDRobD Posts: 41,188

    SeanT is still active on Twitter I see...

    I was quite amused by this:


    I'm guessing they mean indigenous peoples of the North, who may have had the experience to help with the expedition to the South.
  • eekeek Posts: 6,307
    nico67 said:

    The Comres question on tax and business shows how clueless most of the public are.

    Lowest tax , business friendly is basically capitalism on steroids with crap public services but of course the public see the original statement as a positive .

    These types of poll questions will be mana from heaven as the Mogg death cult tell everyone the public support being screwed.

    As we can see with certain posters here (let alone the rest of the world) most people don't think through the consequences of what they are agreeing to.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 27,173
    IanB2 said:

    ”Robert Saunders, a historian of democracy, writes in his introduction to the series, British Conservatism has “broken with three of its most important traditions. It has stopped thinking; it has stopped ‘conserving’; and it has lost its suspicion of ideology.”
    Yep. Couldn't put it better.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    nico67 said:

    The Comres question on tax and business shows how clueless most of the public are.

    Lowest tax , business friendly is basically capitalism on steroids with crap public services but of course the public see the original statement as a positive .

    These types of poll questions will be mana from heaven as the Mogg death cult tell everyone the public support being screwed.

    The Tories are unlikely to get cutting cash for public spending through parliament and I cannot see them going for a new mandate this year, which I know flies in the face of some people.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 2,424
    While I think that is a very harsh characterisation of it, I'd agree that the media are quite supportive of Warren. But I think that's simply because her policy focus and willingness to do long interviews fits with the sort of campaign and reporting they want to do anyway. I don't think it's cynical.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 32,508
    IanB2 said:

    ”Robert Saunders, a historian of democracy, writes in his introduction to the series, British Conservatism has “broken with three of its most important traditions. It has stopped thinking; it has stopped ‘conserving’; and it has lost its suspicion of ideology.”
    "The Race Delusion - Michael Brooks: Why our racial identities are nothing to with genetic science"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 27,173
    Torygraph going full Boris tomorrow judging by the online version.

    Will MPs stop this barrelling bandwagon in its tracks tomorrow? Seems highly unlikely.

    Buckle up, as Byronic says.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 31,467
    Is Lisa Nandy on Peston’s show every week?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,030

    Torygraph going full Boris tomorrow judging by the online version.

    Will MPs stop this barrelling bandwagon in its tracks tomorrow? Seems highly unlikely.

    Buckle up, as Byronic says.

    Also this. The great John Curtice thinks we SHOULD pay attention to that ComRes poll. I am damn sure Tory MPs will be paying attention


  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 22,358
    edited June 12

    IanB2 said:

    ”Robert Saunders, a historian of democracy, writes in his introduction to the series, British Conservatism has “broken with three of its most important traditions. It has stopped thinking; it has stopped ‘conserving’; and it has lost its suspicion of ideology.”
    Yep. Couldn't put it better.
    In the full article he goes on to consider why the Tories lost their way. He argues that the fact that the left had lost the geopolitical battle led to intellectual laziness. He blames Cameron for being more interested in branding and for leadership devoid of any deep thinking on policy. He sees the general decline of religious morality as depriving the party of its traditional compass. And a loss of historical perspective and growing obsession with viewing everything through the prism of Churchill and WWII. He sees a growing likelihood that what he defines as traditional conservatism being driven outside the party.

    Worth a read.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,030
    Scott_P said:
    If he avoids TV debates that really is shoddy, and cowardly. Man up, Boris. If you want to lead the country through Brexit we need to see that you are capable.

    Surely he is not going to make the same terrible error as May?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 31,467
    Byronic said:

    Torygraph going full Boris tomorrow judging by the online version.

    Will MPs stop this barrelling bandwagon in its tracks tomorrow? Seems highly unlikely.

    Buckle up, as Byronic says.

    Also this. The great John Curtice thinks we SHOULD pay attention to that ComRes poll. I am damn sure Tory MPs will be paying attention
    Johnson is the one who gives lost Brexit Party voters the most hope, which also means he has the greatest ability to disappoint. Remember how popular May was in early 2017 after the Lancaster House speech?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 7,655

    IanB2 said:

    ”Robert Saunders, a historian of democracy, writes in his introduction to the series, British Conservatism has “broken with three of its most important traditions. It has stopped thinking; it has stopped ‘conserving’; and it has lost its suspicion of ideology.”
    "The Race Delusion - Michael Brooks: Why our racial identities are nothing to with genetic science"
    From that piece:

    "Almost all scientists working in this field will tell you that race is a social construct. It has little to do with genetic ancestry, and much to do with how people choose to identify and who they choose to identify with."

    Or in other words the answer to the question you struggle with about whether Islam is a race is pretty much yes.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 24,479
    Byronic said:

    If he avoids TV debates that really is shoddy, and cowardly. Man up, Boris. If you want to lead the country through Brexit we need to see that you are capable.

    Surely he is not going to make the same terrible error as May?

    Why not? He's already repeated another terrible error of hers: pledging to meet an arbitrary Brexit date which is neither practical nor necessarily in his control.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 32,508
    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    ”Robert Saunders, a historian of democracy, writes in his introduction to the series, British Conservatism has “broken with three of its most important traditions. It has stopped thinking; it has stopped ‘conserving’; and it has lost its suspicion of ideology.”
    "The Race Delusion - Michael Brooks: Why our racial identities are nothing to with genetic science"
    From that piece:

    "Almost all scientists working in this field will tell you that race is a social construct. It has little to do with genetic ancestry, and much to do with how people choose to identify and who they choose to identify with."

    Or in other words the answer to the question you struggle with about whether Islam is a race is pretty much yes.
    And therefore nothing to do with genetics.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 26,901

    Alistair said:

    Have ComRes fucked it. This just seems bonkers

    More from Comedy Results:

    Makes me feel sad that 34% say no to that.
    I would definitely say no to that, it's very dumb.

    Small countries get more benefits from low taxes and regulations than big countries, because they get more revenue from business coming in from other countries *relative to the domestic revenue they forego*. This is why US companies end up incorporated in Delaware not Texas, and the Delaware of the EU is Estonia not Germany. It's also why tax havens are little places like the Cayman Islands, not big ones like Russia.

    Britain is a fairly big country, so if it's trying to set tax rates to beat small countries, it's doing it wrong.
    Its funny though, the opponents to Brexit keep insisting we are a small country.

    While very small countries can benefit exceptionally well, we can still benefit too. We still benefit from lower but more effective taxation. And we can still attract more business.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,030

    Byronic said:

    If he avoids TV debates that really is shoddy, and cowardly. Man up, Boris. If you want to lead the country through Brexit we need to see that you are capable.

    Surely he is not going to make the same terrible error as May?

    Why not? He's already repeated another terrible error of hers: pledging to meet an arbitrary Brexit date which is neither practical nor necessarily in his control.
    I note he slightly rowed back on that, today. He said Britain "must" leave by then, not "will". He clearly intends to blame any delay on others.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,714
    Two TV debates at the MP nomination stage seems a bit much. I'm not sure why the public need to get to know some of the contenders who won't make the final two and obviously they'd be a total waste of the time if the overwhelming favourite didn't turn up.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 26,901
    Charles said:

    FPT @Philip_Thompson

    Re: your suggestion of putting Arlene Foster in the European Council with veto powers

    Man, what did the EU ever do to you? Drown your kitten when you were a kid? That’s some vicious sh1t you have planned...

    LOL!

    It is fair though if NI is to be under EU rules that they have the appropriate level of involvement in setting EU rules. Including therefore Arlene in the Council.

    I suspect if we insisted on that rather than the removal of the backstop they might back down quicker than ever imagined though ;)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 6,294

    Byronic said:

    If he avoids TV debates that really is shoddy, and cowardly. Man up, Boris. If you want to lead the country through Brexit we need to see that you are capable.

    Surely he is not going to make the same terrible error as May?

    Why not? He's already repeated another terrible error of hers: pledging to meet an arbitrary Brexit date which is neither practical nor necessarily in his control.
    Sadly, for the rest of the country, it seems the Tory Party is only to eager to go along with repeating this epic piece of self-deception.
    Fool me once?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 24,479
    edited June 12
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    If he avoids TV debates that really is shoddy, and cowardly. Man up, Boris. If you want to lead the country through Brexit we need to see that you are capable.

    Surely he is not going to make the same terrible error as May?

    Why not? He's already repeated another terrible error of hers: pledging to meet an arbitrary Brexit date which is neither practical nor necessarily in his control.
    I note he slightly rowed back on that, today. He said Britain "must" leave by then, not "will". He clearly intends to blame any delay on others.
    Too late. He's heavily identified with the brain-dead pledge, and Farage and the other rock-throwers won't forget it. The attack ads will write themselves.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 16,180
    Media reports what candidate is saying. Outrageous !

    The article is utter cods.

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 7,655

    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    ”Robert Saunders, a historian of democracy, writes in his introduction to the series, British Conservatism has “broken with three of its most important traditions. It has stopped thinking; it has stopped ‘conserving’; and it has lost its suspicion of ideology.”
    "The Race Delusion - Michael Brooks: Why our racial identities are nothing to with genetic science"
    From that piece:

    "Almost all scientists working in this field will tell you that race is a social construct. It has little to do with genetic ancestry, and much to do with how people choose to identify and who they choose to identify with."

    Or in other words the answer to the question you struggle with about whether Islam is a race is pretty much yes.
    And therefore nothing to do with genetics.
    Possibly wrong, actually. There is a school of thought that we have an innate God module as well as a language module in the brain which predispose us to acquire both a mother tongue and a religion from our parents. So genetics is an important part of it though the actual choice of language and religion is up to our parents.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,030

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    If he avoids TV debates that really is shoddy, and cowardly. Man up, Boris. If you want to lead the country through Brexit we need to see that you are capable.

    Surely he is not going to make the same terrible error as May?

    Why not? He's already repeated another terrible error of hers: pledging to meet an arbitrary Brexit date which is neither practical nor necessarily in his control.
    I note he slightly rowed back on that, today. He said Britain "must" leave by then, not "will". He clearly intends to blame any delay on others.
    Too late. He's heavily identified with the brain-dead pledge, and Farage and the other rock-throwers won't forget it. The attack adds write themselves.
    I agree, of course. As I said at the time, it was alarmingly foolish. An unforced error.

    That said, he might just get away with it. In the bluster and chaos of a Boris government. I think he intends to be a cheap-airline Churchill with lashings of Trump.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 1,525
    Quincel said:

    While I think that is a very harsh characterisation of it, I'd agree that the media are quite supportive of Warren. But I think that's simply because her policy focus and willingness to do long interviews fits with the sort of campaign and reporting they want to do anyway. I don't think it's cynical.
    Last time out, they all gave Trump colossal amounts of exactly the sort of publicity he wanted, all the while insisting that it would be ghastly if he won. They just do whatever sells papers; there's no conspiracy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 32,508
    dixiedean said:

    Byronic said:

    If he avoids TV debates that really is shoddy, and cowardly. Man up, Boris. If you want to lead the country through Brexit we need to see that you are capable.

    Surely he is not going to make the same terrible error as May?

    Why not? He's already repeated another terrible error of hers: pledging to meet an arbitrary Brexit date which is neither practical nor necessarily in his control.
    Sadly, for the rest of the country, it seems the Tory Party is only to eager to go along with repeating this epic piece of self-deception.
    Fool me once?
    How can I live among this gentle
    obsolescent breed of Tories, and not weep?
    Unicorns, almost,
    for they are fading into two legends
    in which their Remainery and Leavery
    are celebrated. Each, Europhile and Brexiteer, will be an immortal.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 2,424
    Byronic said:

    Scott_P said:
    If he avoids TV debates that really is shoddy, and cowardly. Man up, Boris. If you want to lead the country through Brexit we need to see that you are capable.

    Surely he is not going to make the same terrible error as May?
    It is remarkable how for all their differences, Johnson is repeating so many of the mistakes of May and Tory MPs are so unbothered by it. Announcing big red lines which will be difficult for him to fulfil, shying away from scrutiny, and so on. He could well follow a very similar path as PM, including big poll leads but then a sharp polling collapse once the honeymoon period is over and his plans meet reality.

    Or maybe he'll pull it off, but I'm not convinced. She didn't, and I don't see what his negotiations will change. And while he can No Deal (well, probably, though we'll see what the HoC does) that opens a whole new set of political (and national) risks.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 31,467

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    If he avoids TV debates that really is shoddy, and cowardly. Man up, Boris. If you want to lead the country through Brexit we need to see that you are capable.

    Surely he is not going to make the same terrible error as May?

    Why not? He's already repeated another terrible error of hers: pledging to meet an arbitrary Brexit date which is neither practical nor necessarily in his control.
    I note he slightly rowed back on that, today. He said Britain "must" leave by then, not "will". He clearly intends to blame any delay on others.
    Too late. He's heavily identified with the brain-dead pledge, and Farage and the other rock-throwers won't forget it. The attack ads will write themselves.
    Unless he’s planning an election before October...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 6,294
    Artist said:

    Two TV debates at the MP nomination stage seems a bit much. I'm not sure why the public need to get to know some of the contenders who won't make the final two and obviously they'd be a total waste of the time if the overwhelming favourite didn't turn up.

    They'd only be a CWOT if the candidates spend the whole time attacking each other.
    If they used the time to all lay into the absent front runner, possibly not.
    Of course, the former is what will happen.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 9,157


    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.

    No they're not, they are utterly identical in every respect, with not even a token effort of disguise. But it's fine, SeanT has every right to use an alias, and everyone will stop mentioning it provided he just gets on with it and refrains from trying to corroborate his assumed life in an embarrassing and awkward way.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 26,901
    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    JackW said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    If Boris does win I'm wondering how clever Grieve and his fellow Remain backing MPs who rejected May's very soft Brexit will feel.

    Even Ken Clarke backed it FFS.

    They have made it quite clear through their actions that they would rather have the most chaotic Brexit possible than personally contribute to delivering any other Brexit deal. They might yet succeed and get Remain, and they have no problem with no deal being risked if that is achievable.
    Precisely.

    The only people in this whole farce who have acted honourably are the SNP and ERG.
    Bollocks
    That's totally unacceptable.

    The single word is very passe. We've had Bollocks To BREXIT and Bollocks To Bercow

    So what is it .... Bollocks To ...... ?!?!?
    Ok I’ll give you that, I believe that to say that the snp and the erg are the only people to have acted honorably is pushing it somewhat. The ERG are the reason we haven’t left the SNP want to leverage the situation to their advantage so it was easier to say the b word but I humbly apologize
    The ERG were elected to ensure the UK left the EU - furthermore they were elected as members of the governing party. They blocked the deal that allowed us to do so.

    How is that honourable?
    Honourable isn't about whether you are making the right call, but if you're being consistent in doing so.

    Because the ERG viewed the deal as a bad deal and were prepared to have No Deal instead, which is the default if there is no deal approved. That is honourable. I exclude from this people like Boris who said the deal was worse than remaining then backed it, that was dishonourable.

    The SNP rejected the referendum before it occured, rejected the English results as not applying to them, rejected invoking Article 50 and rejected everything since. Entirely consistent. That is honourable.

    The DUP have been consistent from start to finish too. That was honourable.

    Almost every Labour MP and Tory rebel on the remain side voted to have the referendum and invoke article 50, claim to oppose no deal but rejected the only deal available. That is dishonourable.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 2,424
    Artist said:

    Two TV debates at the MP nomination stage seems a bit much. I'm not sure why the public need to get to know some of the contenders who won't make the final two and obviously they'd be a total waste of the time if the overwhelming favourite didn't turn up.

    I think it's more for the party to see the potential leaders perform in public, and from that perspective I think it's fairly useful. MPs are choosing two people, one of whom will be Prime Minister in a few weeks. Scrutiny and challenge is good, imho.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 12,652


    While very small countries can benefit exceptionally well, we can still benefit too. We still benefit from lower but more effective taxation. And we can still attract more business.

    That may or may not be true but the question polled was "lowest tax in Europe" not just "lower".
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,030

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    If he avoids TV debates that really is shoddy, and cowardly. Man up, Boris. If you want to lead the country through Brexit we need to see that you are capable.

    Surely he is not going to make the same terrible error as May?

    Why not? He's already repeated another terrible error of hers: pledging to meet an arbitrary Brexit date which is neither practical nor necessarily in his control.
    I note he slightly rowed back on that, today. He said Britain "must" leave by then, not "will". He clearly intends to blame any delay on others.
    Too late. He's heavily identified with the brain-dead pledge, and Farage and the other rock-throwers won't forget it. The attack ads will write themselves.
    Unless he’s planning an election before October...
    Yip. That must be his plan. I reckon.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 16,180
    An interesting stat from the latest US polls:

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/12/elizabeth-warren-2020-election-polls-1362107
    Twenty-percent of respondents said it would disappoint them if Sanders or de Blasio won the Democratic nomination for president. Nineteen percent said the same of Biden. Only 9 percent said they would be disappointed if Warren won the nomination...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    If Boris turns up for the big leagues debates eg BBC, Sky or ITV then it doesn’t matter if he skips the biased C4 effort. Cathy Newman calling them all waycists is a waste of time.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 32,508
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    ”Robert Saunders, a historian of democracy, writes in his introduction to the series, British Conservatism has “broken with three of its most important traditions. It has stopped thinking; it has stopped ‘conserving’; and it has lost its suspicion of ideology.”
    "The Race Delusion - Michael Brooks: Why our racial identities are nothing to with genetic science"
    From that piece:

    "Almost all scientists working in this field will tell you that race is a social construct. It has little to do with genetic ancestry, and much to do with how people choose to identify and who they choose to identify with."

    Or in other words the answer to the question you struggle with about whether Islam is a race is pretty much yes.
    And therefore nothing to do with genetics.
    Possibly wrong, actually. There is a school of thought that we have an innate God module as well as a language module in the brain which predispose us to acquire both a mother tongue and a religion from our parents. So genetics is an important part of it though the actual choice of language and religion is up to our parents.
    Yeah, I guess that's why, despite being born in India to ethnically Indian parents, I'm an English-speaking atheist!
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 12,652
    Nigelb said:

    An interesting stat from the latest US polls:

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/12/elizabeth-warren-2020-election-polls-1362107
    Twenty-percent of respondents said it would disappoint them if Sanders or de Blasio won the Democratic nomination for president. Nineteen percent said the same of Biden. Only 9 percent said they would be disappointed if Warren won the nomination...

    This is an interesting way to poll because it flips the name recognition advantage into a disadvantage.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 22,358


    At the risk of egg-on-face when Byronic reveals himself as SeanT after all, I cannot understand why people think they are one and the same.

    I can't say I agree with much of what Byronic posts and I find his choice of avatar offensive but his posts are much less bombastic than SeanT's usual (i.e. inebriated) posting style and less witty than Sean's occasional sober posts. Imho.

    No they're not, they are utterly identical in every respect, with not even a token effort of disguise. But it's fine, SeanT has every right to use an alias, and everyone will stop mentioning it provided he just gets on with it and refrains from trying to corroborate his assumed life in an embarrassing and awkward way.
    Yep, as I said the last time this came up, if he stopped denying it, we’d all stop mentioning it.

    I am amused to see that the twitter feed from our erstwhile member, linked just down-thread, contains tweeted quotes from Lord Byron.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 12
    O/T

    India vs Sri Lanka at Trent Bridge tomorrow would be a cracker of a match, but unsurprisingly the forecast is not promising.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2641170
  • Excellent result today in the House of Commons.

    Helps Aaron Banks' deselection campaigns too.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    India vs Sri Lanka at Trent Bridge tomorrow would be a cracker of a match, but unsurprisingly the forecast is not promising.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2641170

    Result for England if rained off - cost India a point. They would pump the Lankans.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 16,180

    Nigelb said:

    An interesting stat from the latest US polls:

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/12/elizabeth-warren-2020-election-polls-1362107
    Twenty-percent of respondents said it would disappoint them if Sanders or de Blasio won the Democratic nomination for president. Nineteen percent said the same of Biden. Only 9 percent said they would be disappointed if Warren won the nomination...

    This is an interesting way to poll because it flips the name recognition advantage into a disadvantage.
    So why does de Blasio get the same negative rating as Sanders ?
    Rather messes up that way of looking at it.

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 7,655

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    ”Robert Saunders, a historian of democracy, writes in his introduction to the series, British Conservatism has “broken with three of its most important traditions. It has stopped thinking; it has stopped ‘conserving’; and it has lost its suspicion of ideology.”
    "The Race Delusion - Michael Brooks: Why our racial identities are nothing to with genetic science"
    From that piece:

    "Almost all scientists working in this field will tell you that race is a social construct. It has little to do with genetic ancestry, and much to do with how people choose to identify and who they choose to identify with."

    Or in other words the answer to the question you struggle with about whether Islam is a race is pretty much yes.
    And therefore nothing to do with genetics.
    Possibly wrong, actually. There is a school of thought that we have an innate God module as well as a language module in the brain which predispose us to acquire both a mother tongue and a religion from our parents. So genetics is an important part of it though the actual choice of language and religion is up to our parents.
    Yeah, I guess that's why, despite being born in India to ethnically Indian parents, I'm an English-speaking atheist!
    I am not sure I understand the relevance of that.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 27,614

    AndyJS said:

    I'd like to know whether Andrea Leadsom's odds are due to stupid punters or someone trying to artificially inflate her standing.

    Probably both.

    What % of the market do informed punters on pb.com represent?

    It's a £3.9m market. I've got 0.06% of the market. If we assume there are 200 very serious punters lurking or posting on here then we'd still only be at 12% of it.
    You have over £23K at stake in this market? Blimey. I can't work out if that is ambitious or reckless but I tend to the latter.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 9,114
    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    ”Robert Saunders, a historian of democracy, writes in his introduction to the series, British Conservatism has “broken with three of its most important traditions. It has stopped thinking; it has stopped ‘conserving’; and it has lost its suspicion of ideology.”
    "The Race Delusion - Michael Brooks: Why our racial identities are nothing to with genetic science"
    From that piece:

    "Almost all scientists working in this field will tell you that race is a social construct. It has little to do with genetic ancestry, and much to do with how people choose to identify and who they choose to identify with."

    Or in other words the answer to the question you struggle with about whether Islam is a race is pretty much yes.
    No, it really isn't - just like other world religions

  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,030
    TGOHF said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    India vs Sri Lanka at Trent Bridge tomorrow would be a cracker of a match, but unsurprisingly the forecast is not promising.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2641170

    Result for England if rained off - cost India a point. They would pump the Lankans.

    Not a result for the World Cup however. Do a Twitter search on "World Cup" and "rain" and you will find many many cricket fans around the world, especially in Asia, incensed at its despoiling by the English climate. And they have a point.

    The home of cricket is now the subcontinent. That's where the money is. They rightly expect to see a proper World Cup, not a series of washouts. With thousands of fans disappointed, and TV schedules inoperative....

    England won't get to host another World Cup, unless we can either 1, prove we have a system of reserve days that works, or 2. build at least two grounds with roofs.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 12,887
    The Boris playbook is simple

    Negotiate with Brussels
    Fail
    Go to the country in October for No Deal Brexit mandate
    .... Brexit party steps aside pledged Tories
    .... Dissolved Parliament cannot challenge him.
    Majority with Brexit Party
    We’re out
    Five years to make it work.


    Game,Set and Match

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 26,901
    Jonathan said:

    The Boris playbook is simple

    Negotiate with Brussels
    Fail
    Go to the country in October for No Deal Brexit mandate
    .... Brexit party steps aside pledged Tories
    .... Dissolved Parliament cannot challenge him.
    Majority with Brexit Party
    We’re out
    Five years to make it work.


    Game,Set and Match

    Sounds smart. And an appropriate result from the referendum given this Parliament won't agree any Deal.

    Five years should be enough to make it work and if it isnt then the public can vote accordingly.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited June 12
    Byronic said:

    TGOHF said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    India vs Sri Lanka at Trent Bridge tomorrow would be a cracker of a match, but unsurprisingly the forecast is not promising.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2641170

    Result for England if rained off - cost India a point. They would pump the Lankans.

    Not a result for the World Cup however. Do a Twitter search on "World Cup" and "rain" and you will find many many cricket fans around the world, especially in Asia, incensed at its despoiling by the English climate. And they have a point.

    The home of cricket is now the subcontinent. That's where the money is. They rightly expect to see a proper World Cup, not a series of washouts. With thousands of fans disappointed, and TV schedules inoperative....

    England won't get to host another World Cup, unless we can either 1, prove we have a system of reserve days that works, or 2. build at least two grounds with roofs.
    Boo frikking hoo to fans in Asia.

    England are one of the big three in world cricket and will host the ODI World Cup In 2035 with the T20 World Cup before then. The sun is coming out Friday - teams have 9 games to qualify- plenty of time for cream to rise to the top.
This discussion has been closed.