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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If the CON race continues to be about character them it might

SystemSystem Posts: 11,015
edited June 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If the CON race continues to be about character them it might be a lot closer than anybody thought

When at the launch of the Boris campaign a fortnight ago the Sky journalist, Beth Rigby, sought to raise the question of character she got loudly booed by many of those attending. It was the same yesterday at the the first hustings in Birmingham when Iain Dale sought to raise the issue that’s been dominating the news with Johnson. This didn’t come over well on TV.

Read the full story here


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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    As @rottenborough said on the last thread, Lynton Crosby will be looking for dead cats to throw on the table.

    If the Mirror story is right that Boris is trying to get back with Marina, then that makes his domestic life more complicated and perhaps more likely Boris might need to pull out, but there does not seem to be much in the other papers to support it.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    The trouble for Boris and Crosby's strategy of protecting your lead by avoiding debate (same with Theresa May and Cameron in the last two general elections) is that in light of recent developments, it now comes across as evasive.

    And Boris's natural instinct, his style, is evasive. Look at almost any old interview and most questions, however innocuous, are deflected with bluster and anecdote.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,611

    If the Mirror story is right

    Boris Johnson is “yearning” for estranged wife Marina Wheeler, despite being with Carrie Symonds, pals claim. But they warn she will never have him back. One said: “He would like what he had before.”

    Friends of Mr Johnson, who claim he is pining for his ex-wife, fear that could be behind his row with lover Carrie. The 55-year-old PM hopeful is said to be finding his split from Marina Wheeler extremely painful.

    Pals even claim he was agonising over whether she could attempt a reconciliation, despite her starting divorce proceedings last year over his cheating. But they also said Marina, his wife of 25 years and mum of four of his children, is still furious with him and would never take him back. One said: “This is a classic example of Boris wanting to have his cake and eat it.”

    It comes as an expert warned Mr Johnson’s “erratic” personal life could leave him open to the threat of blackmail, making him a ­security risk in No10.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-wants-wife-back-16939178

    With "pals" like these, who needs enemies?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,611
    This from Matt last week still rings true:

    https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1141036409194721281
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    DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    The fact that more stories regarding Boris's private life have come out so early in the campaign means that they'll probably be forgotten about about by the time ballot papers arrive in two weeks time.

    Anyway we're talking about Tory party members here and I can assure you that they really couldn't give a damn what political opponents say or do.

    A few of their MPs who voted for Boris might start having second thoughts though.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,611
    The Mail's take (and first story on the website):

    From the first flush of love to rows with his girlfriend after browsing two-for-one wine offers in his local Tesco Express: JANE FRYER asks if crumpled, unstatesmanlike Boris is feeling the strain during his bid to be PM

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7173013/JANE-FRYER-asks-crumpled-unstatesmanlike-Boris-feeling-strain-bid-PM.html
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Finally out of central LA thank god. Back to San Diego for the first time in a while, it's still probably the only place I'd consider moving to in the US, well that and Venice/Santa Monica.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256

    The Mail's take (and first story on the website):

    From the first flush of love to rows with his girlfriend after browsing two-for-one wine offers in his local Tesco Express: JANE FRYER asks if crumpled, unstatesmanlike Boris is feeling the strain during his bid to be PM

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7173013/JANE-FRYER-asks-crumpled-unstatesmanlike-Boris-feeling-strain-bid-PM.html

    If half that article is true, he sounds like he’ll soon be in need of some psychological help.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    If the Mirror story is right

    Boris Johnson is “yearning” for estranged wife Marina Wheeler, despite being with Carrie Symonds, pals claim. But they warn she will never have him back. One said: “He would like what he had before.”

    Friends of Mr Johnson, who claim he is pining for his ex-wife, fear that could be behind his row with lover Carrie. The 55-year-old PM hopeful is said to be finding his split from Marina Wheeler extremely painful.

    Pals even claim he was agonising over whether she could attempt a reconciliation, despite her starting divorce proceedings last year over his cheating. But they also said Marina, his wife of 25 years and mum of four of his children, is still furious with him and would never take him back. One said: “This is a classic example of Boris wanting to have his cake and eat it.”

    It comes as an expert warned Mr Johnson’s “erratic” personal life could leave him open to the threat of blackmail, making him a ­security risk in No10.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-wants-wife-back-16939178

    With "pals" like these, who needs enemies?
    Its the Mirror.. a sense of perspective is required. Anything in the Mirror will by hyperbole if its bad for Boris
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189

    This from Matt last week still rings true:

    https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1141036409194721281

    Given what happened at the BBC debate, I'm not surprised that Boris is refusing to do another, even if it is with a different broadcaster.
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    tlg86 said:

    This from Matt last week still rings true:

    https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1141036409194721281

    Given what happened at the BBC debate, I'm not surprised that Boris is refusing to do another, even if it is with a different broadcaster.
    He wasn't doing media before that one. He just isn't very good at that sort of thing.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914

    The Mail's take (and first story on the website):

    From the first flush of love to rows with his girlfriend after browsing two-for-one wine offers in his local Tesco Express: JANE FRYER asks if crumpled, unstatesmanlike Boris is feeling the strain during his bid to be PM

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7173013/JANE-FRYER-asks-crumpled-unstatesmanlike-Boris-feeling-strain-bid-PM.html

    Doubtless a story on Boris' bowel movements next.
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Pulpstar said:

    The Mail's take (and first story on the website):

    From the first flush of love to rows with his girlfriend after browsing two-for-one wine offers in his local Tesco Express: JANE FRYER asks if crumpled, unstatesmanlike Boris is feeling the strain during his bid to be PM

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7173013/JANE-FRYER-asks-crumpled-unstatesmanlike-Boris-feeling-strain-bid-PM.html

    Doubtless a story on Boris' bowel movements next.
    How about a story on how the candidate that is supposed to be a great election winner doesn't know how to handle a public meeting?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Just found the story about Boris' car... Really quite warming to him now.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    edited June 2019

    Pulpstar said:

    The Mail's take (and first story on the website):

    From the first flush of love to rows with his girlfriend after browsing two-for-one wine offers in his local Tesco Express: JANE FRYER asks if crumpled, unstatesmanlike Boris is feeling the strain during his bid to be PM

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7173013/JANE-FRYER-asks-crumpled-unstatesmanlike-Boris-feeling-strain-bid-PM.html

    Doubtless a story on Boris' bowel movements next.
    How about a story on how the candidate that is supposed to be a great election winner doesn't know how to handle a public meeting?
    The media seem to be missing that one amidst the reports that he keeps old sweet wrappers in his car and has a girlfriend who is a bit loud when they have a row. Oh and his backpack is a bit crumpled when browsing the two for one wines in Tesco.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    Just found the story about Boris' car... Really quite warming to him now.

    ?
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just found the story about Boris' car... Really quite warming to him now.

    ?
    its a mess inside .. one presumes
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited June 2019
    I found that Daily Mail piece really interesting, as is this thread header.

    I thought yesterday that Boris looked deeply unhappy. In fact, I wondered if he might be about to throw in the towel. The spotlight is (rightly) on him like never before, and he doesn't like it. If he continues like this he may be heading for a breakdown, like his mother.

    It seems to me that he needs help. Escaping into high office at a time like this isn't going to be healing for him, or the country.

    The contest should be between Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,988
    Before Mrs May recommends Johnson to the Queen, might she not test that he has the confidence of the House with a motion "This House has confidence in a Government led by Boris Johnson"? If several Tory MPs have written to her expressing no confidence in him she might feel obliged to do so. The Queen might even suggest it.

    If Mrs May makes the motion amendable, it enables a number of potentisl candidates for PM to test the confidence of the House with their own manifesto.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,988
    edited June 2019

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    I think it's very likely he is going to be next Tory leader but much less likely that he is going to be next PM.

    This would be the first time that party members have chosen a PM. it would be good for democracy that a precedent is set that this choice is automatically tested by a vote of confidence by the House.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256

    If the Mirror story is right

    Boris Johnson is “yearning” for estranged wife Marina Wheeler, despite being with Carrie Symonds, pals claim. But they warn she will never have him back. One said: “He would like what he had before.”

    Friends of Mr Johnson, who claim he is pining for his ex-wife, fear that could be behind his row with lover Carrie. The 55-year-old PM hopeful is said to be finding his split from Marina Wheeler extremely painful.

    Pals even claim he was agonising over whether she could attempt a reconciliation, despite her starting divorce proceedings last year over his cheating. But they also said Marina, his wife of 25 years and mum of four of his children, is still furious with him and would never take him back. One said: “This is a classic example of Boris wanting to have his cake and eat it.”

    It comes as an expert warned Mr Johnson’s “erratic” personal life could leave him open to the threat of blackmail, making him a ­security risk in No10.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-wants-wife-back-16939178

    With "pals" like these, who needs enemies?
    Its the Mirror.. a sense of perspective is required. Anything in the Mirror will by hyperbole if its bad for Boris
    The same stuff in the Mail is available if you prefer a different font.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,922
    First Monday of the head to head and Johnson’s Brexit plan has been exposed as a total sham and Jeremy Hunt is promising to close down successful, profitable businesses. How long until we know the result?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    This polling would need to be very wrong indeed, with Boris Johnson 74:26 ahead and 80% certain of their decision. Polling of party members is much less reliable than polling of the general public, which isn’t exactly great, but even so...
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,988
    Bets on Gove or Lidington as next PM (not Leader) might still come good.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    edited June 2019

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    Very rarely that wrong, the polling in the Michigan Democratic primary in 2016 was the last error that would have been sufficient in scale to get Hunt close.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Good morning, everyone.

    Still very unlikely Hunt will win.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Pulpstar said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    Very rarely that wrong, the polling in the Michigan Democratic primary in 2016 was the last error that would have been sufficient in scale to get Hunt close.
    I seem to recall Mrs May having 20% plus poll leads.. that worked out well..
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256
    Pulpstar said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    Very rarely that wrong, the polling in the Michigan Democratic primary in 2016 was the last error that would have been sufficient in scale to get Hunt close.
    Although what we would need here is some combination of favourable polling error and two more weeks of trend.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,370
    Boris Johnson’s erratic private life make him a security risk.

    #HasToBeHunt
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    The press may be interested in character and Boris' private life, the Tory membership are interested in Brexit.

    On the debates Boris did the BBC debate last month and will do more TV debates head to head with Hunt next month as well as all the husting they are both taking part in across the country
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    Pulpstar said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    Very rarely that wrong, the polling in the Michigan Democratic primary in 2016 was the last error that would have been sufficient in scale to get Hunt close.
    I seem to recall Mrs May having 20% plus poll leads.. that worked out well..
    Not in the final polling
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,597
    HYUFD said:

    The press may be interested in character and Boris' private life, the Tory membership are interested in Brexit.

    On the debates Boris did the BBC debate last month and will do more TV debates head to head with Hunt next month as well as all the husting they are both taking part in across the country

    And when Bozo fails to deliver Brexit in October all you will be left with will be a buffoon in Downing Street.

    How soon until MPs can send their letters to the 1922 to get rid of him?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited June 2019
    DeClare said:

    The fact that more stories regarding Boris's private life have come out so early in the campaign means that they'll probably be forgotten about about by the time ballot papers arrive in two weeks time.

    Anyway we're talking about Tory party members here and I can assure you that they really couldn't give a damn what political opponents say or do.

    A few of their MPs who voted for Boris might start having second thoughts though.

    Remember even on Thursday Boris only won 51% of Tory MPs, a majority of whom voted Remain and a few of whom only voted for him once it was clear he would get to the final two and likely win the majority Leave voting membership.

    Had it just been MPs who made the final decision as it was until 2001 then most of Gove's backers would have gone to Hunt and Hunt might have won.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,370
    edited June 2019

    Pulpstar said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    Very rarely that wrong, the polling in the Michigan Democratic primary in 2016 was the last error that would have been sufficient in scale to get Hunt close.
    I seem to recall Mrs May having 20% plus poll leads.. that worked out well..
    And like the coward Boris Johnson she also chickened out of debates.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    HYUFD said:

    The press may be interested in character and Boris' private life, the Tory membership are interested in Brexit.

    On the debates Boris did the BBC debate last month and will do more TV debates head to head with Hunt next month as well as all the husting they are both taking part in across the country

    And when Bozo fails to deliver Brexit in October all you will be left with will be a buffoon in Downing Street.

    How soon until MPs can send their letters to the 1922 to get rid of him?
    Boris can win a majority and then deliver Brexit
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,590
    HYUFD said:

    The press may be interested in character and Boris' private life, the Tory membership are interested in Brexit.

    On the debates Boris did the BBC debate last month and will do more TV debates head to head with Hunt next month as well as all the husting they are both taking part in across the country

    My mother reads the Daily Mail. She thinks very poorly of men who abandon their families.

    I shall be interested to see how her vote goes.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited June 2019

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    This polling would need to be very wrong indeed, with Boris Johnson 74:26 ahead and 80% certain of their decision. Polling of party members is much less reliable than polling of the general public, which isn’t exactly great, but even so...
    The 74% Boris got in a few polls before was unlikely to be sustained, I think it is more likely he wins about 60% to 40% for Hunt ie close to the 59% Corbyn got in 2015 and the 61% he got in 2016 against Owen Smith.

    Boris led Hunt 61% to 39% in a Comres Tory councillors poll at the weekend
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,590

    HYUFD said:

    The press may be interested in character and Boris' private life, the Tory membership are interested in Brexit.

    On the debates Boris did the BBC debate last month and will do more TV debates head to head with Hunt next month as well as all the husting they are both taking part in across the country

    And when Bozo fails to deliver Brexit in October all you will be left with will be a buffoon in Downing Street.

    How soon until MPs can send their letters to the 1922 to get rid of him?
    Presumably he has to be elected first, but does it have to be a year, or can it be day one?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,370
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    The press may be interested in character and Boris' private life, the Tory membership are interested in Brexit.

    On the debates Boris did the BBC debate last month and will do more TV debates head to head with Hunt next month as well as all the husting they are both taking part in across the country

    And when Bozo fails to deliver Brexit in October all you will be left with will be a buffoon in Downing Street.

    How soon until MPs can send their letters to the 1922 to get rid of him?
    Presumably he has to be elected first, but does it have to be a year, or can it be day one?
    IIRC can be done the day he is elected leader.

    I reckon the ERG will call a confidence vote in him in late October.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,972
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The press may be interested in character and Boris' private life, the Tory membership are interested in Brexit.

    On the debates Boris did the BBC debate last month and will do more TV debates head to head with Hunt next month as well as all the husting they are both taking part in across the country

    And when Bozo fails to deliver Brexit in October all you will be left with will be a buffoon in Downing Street.

    How soon until MPs can send their letters to the 1922 to get rid of him?
    Boris can win a majority and then deliver Brexit
    Well, agree. He can. In circumstances which look increasingly unlikely.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256
    HYUFD said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    This polling would need to be very wrong indeed, with Boris Johnson 74:26 ahead and 80% certain of their decision. Polling of party members is much less reliable than polling of the general public, which isn’t exactly great, but even so...
    The 74% Boris got in a few polls before was unlikely to be sustained, I think it is more likely he wins about 60% to 40% for Hunt ie close to the 59% Corbyn got in 2015 and the 61% he got in 2016 against Owen Smith.

    Boris led Hunt 61% to 39% in a Comres Tory councillors poll at the weekend
    A second time you’ve seen the analogy with Corbyn ;)
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    It may change if Hunt continues to have a good campaign and Johnson continues to have a bad one - but I grant it is unlikely.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914

    Pulpstar said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    Very rarely that wrong, the polling in the Michigan Democratic primary in 2016 was the last error that would have been sufficient in scale to get Hunt close.
    I seem to recall Mrs May having 20% plus poll leads.. that worked out well..
    Boris' are much bigger
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    When Boris crashes out is it Hunt by default - a la May vs Leadsom ?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    Very rarely that wrong, the polling in the Michigan Democratic primary in 2016 was the last error that would have been sufficient in scale to get Hunt close.
    I seem to recall Mrs May having 20% plus poll leads.. that worked out well..
    Not in the final polling
    Since when was now the “final polling”. There are still two weeks before papers are mailed out.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    This polling would need to be very wrong indeed, with Boris Johnson 74:26 ahead and 80% certain of their decision. Polling of party members is much less reliable than polling of the general public, which isn’t exactly great, but even so...
    The 74% Boris got in a few polls before was unlikely to be sustained, I think it is more likely he wins about 60% to 40% for Hunt ie close to the 59% Corbyn got in 2015 and the 61% he got in 2016 against Owen Smith.

    Boris led Hunt 61% to 39% in a Comres Tory councillors poll at the weekend
    A second time you’ve seen the analogy with Corbyn ;)
    Well both are more the membership choice than MPs
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited June 2019
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    Very rarely that wrong, the polling in the Michigan Democratic primary in 2016 was the last error that would have been sufficient in scale to get Hunt close.
    I seem to recall Mrs May having 20% plus poll leads.. that worked out well..
    Not in the final polling
    Since when was now the “final polling”. There are still two weeks before papers are mailed out.
    Most members' ballots will then be returned promptly before the final hustings and TV debate and of course David Davis beat Cameron in the 2005 BBC debate but that only just cut Cameron's lead, Cameron still won comfortably
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985
    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just found the story about Boris' car... Really quite warming to him now.

    ?
    It looked like the car of somebody who would be described an "an embittered outsider" on a true crime documentary.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,915
    edited June 2019

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    This polling would need to be very wrong indeed, with Boris Johnson 74:26 ahead and 80% certain of their decision. Polling of party members is much less reliable than polling of the general public, which isn’t exactly great, but even so...
    I would have thought polling of party members was more reliable than that of the public. Why’d you say it is much less?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    Very rarely that wrong, the polling in the Michigan Democratic primary in 2016 was the last error that would have been sufficient in scale to get Hunt close.
    I seem to recall Mrs May having 20% plus poll leads.. that worked out well..
    Not in the final polling
    Since when was now the “final polling”. There are still two weeks before papers are mailed out.
    Most members' ballots will then be returned promptly before the final hustings and TV debate and of course David Davis beat Cameron in the 2005 BBC debate but that only just cut Cameron's lead, Cameron still won comfortably
    Which isn't the point. There are still two weeks to go. So the current polls are not the final ones, as you implied.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256
    Today's Boris stooge on R4 is Priti Patel.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    The press may be interested in character and Boris' private life, the Tory membership are interested in Brexit.

    On the debates Boris did the BBC debate last month and will do more TV debates head to head with Hunt next month as well as all the husting they are both taking part in across the country

    My mother reads the Daily Mail. She thinks very poorly of men who abandon their families.

    I shall be interested to see how her vote goes.
    I got my weekly dose of political analysis from my mother over Sunday lunch:

    "I hope she makes him comb his hair before they do it." Fucking LOL.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256
    isam said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    This polling would need to be very wrong indeed, with Boris Johnson 74:26 ahead and 80% certain of their decision. Polling of party members is much less reliable than polling of the general public, which isn’t exactly great, but even so...
    I would have thought polling of party members was more reliable than that of the public. Why’d you say it is much less?
    My guess would be that it is hard to balance the sample on dimensions that relate to possible sources of bias, not least for lack of information about the demographic balance of the population.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,590
    To be fair on Hunt, he is just pointing out what No Deal Brexit means. At least he understands that there will be instant tariffs and no Implementation period, unlike Johnson, whose mind seems to be on other things.

    Incidentally, browsing 2 for 1 offers in a Tesco express does seem a little thirsty. Perhaps the Camberwell flat is normally a dry zone.
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    houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    The press may be interested in character and Boris' private life, the Tory membership are interested in Brexit.

    On the debates Boris did the BBC debate last month and will do more TV debates head to head with Hunt next month as well as all the husting they are both taking part in across the country

    And when Bozo fails to deliver Brexit in October all you will be left with will be a buffoon in Downing Street.

    How soon until MPs can send their letters to the 1922 to get rid of him?
    Presumably he has to be elected first, but does it have to be a year, or can it be day one?
    IIRC can be done the day he is elected leader.

    I reckon the ERG will call a confidence vote in him in late October.
    Yep, he will be denounced as a traitor within weeks probably.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    This polling would need to be very wrong indeed, with Boris Johnson 74:26 ahead and 80% certain of their decision. Polling of party members is much less reliable than polling of the general public, which isn’t exactly great, but even so...
    I would have thought polling of party members was more reliable than that of the public. Why’d you say it is much less?
    My guess would be that it is hard to balance the sample on dimensions that relate to possible sources of bias, not least for lack of information about the demographic balance of the population.
    Yougov called the 2001 Tory membership vote for IDS correctly, Yougov called the 2005 Tory membership vote for Cameron correctly, no reason to doubt them this time either with Boris ahead with Yougov
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    This polling would need to be very wrong indeed, with Boris Johnson 74:26 ahead and 80% certain of their decision. Polling of party members is much less reliable than polling of the general public, which isn’t exactly great, but even so...
    I would have thought polling of party members was more reliable than that of the public. Why’d you say it is much less?
    Whenever you have a subgroup it is harder to ensure that you have a representative sample of that subgroup.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Where does he get a GB FTA from before Oct 31st? There is no renegotiation and nobody to negotiate it with.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    F1: Ricciardo's received a couple of penalties and his position shifted down to 11th (two 5s penalties for passes on Norris and Raikkonen on the last lap).
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,590
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Can that all be done before 1_Nov, with the legislation passing both Brussels and Westminster, or do you see an extension.

    A General Election would consume half that time even in the unlikely event of a Conservative victory.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,915

    isam said:

    The polling of Conservative members is going to have to be spectacularly wrong if Jeremy Hunt is going to stand a chance. Or Boris Johnson is going to need to withdraw. Either is possible but neither looks particularly likely.

    Polling being wrong.. Surely that's impossible ;)
    This polling would need to be very wrong indeed, with Boris Johnson 74:26 ahead and 80% certain of their decision. Polling of party members is much less reliable than polling of the general public, which isn’t exactly great, but even so...
    I would have thought polling of party members was more reliable than that of the public. Why’d you say it is much less?
    Whenever you have a subgroup it is harder to ensure that you have a representative sample of that subgroup.
    Had the polling of party members in past leadership campaigns been inaccurate?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited June 2019
    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Where does he get a GB FTA from before Oct 31st? There is no renegotiation and nobody to negotiate it with.
    The renegotiation is to remove the temporary Customs Union for GB May asked for not Barnier.

    Boris will also ask to remove the backstop or make it temporary, the EU will refuse so he will let NI decide in a referendum which the EU won't refuse
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,590
    houndtang said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    The press may be interested in character and Boris' private life, the Tory membership are interested in Brexit.

    On the debates Boris did the BBC debate last month and will do more TV debates head to head with Hunt next month as well as all the husting they are both taking part in across the country

    And when Bozo fails to deliver Brexit in October all you will be left with will be a buffoon in Downing Street.

    How soon until MPs can send their letters to the 1922 to get rid of him?
    Presumably he has to be elected first, but does it have to be a year, or can it be day one?
    IIRC can be done the day he is elected leader.

    I reckon the ERG will call a confidence vote in him in late October.
    Yep, he will be denounced as a traitor within weeks probably.
    But will the anti No Dealers get their letters in first?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited June 2019
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Can that all be done before 1_Nov, with the legislation passing both Brussels and Westminster, or do you see an extension.

    A General Election would consume half that time even in the unlikely event of a Conservative victory.
    The Withdrawal Agreement and Brexit can pass before 1st November with a Tory majority and temporary Customs Union for GB removed certainly.

    There may be a short extension for a confirmatory referendum in NI on the backstop only
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256
    Hunt asking the BBC to arrange a debate in the next fortnight and empty chairing Chicken Bozo if he doesn't turn up.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    edited June 2019
    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Where does he get a GB FTA from before Oct 31st? There is no renegotiation and nobody to negotiate it with.
    HYUFD's support is based entirely on a policy that Johnson hasn't espoused, that is unpursuable without a General Election which he has made no commitment to having, reliant on a majority in that election that the polls give no indication would be forthcoming, on the assumption that the Tory majority in that election would be totally in agreement with the policy that he won't publicly declare, and envisages a timescale that is out of all proportion with reality.

    But other than that he's a good bet.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,590
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Where does he get a GB FTA from before Oct 31st? There is no renegotiation and nobody to negotiate it with.
    The renegotiation is to remove the temporary Customs Union for GB May asked for no Barnier.

    Boris will also ask to remove the backstop or make it temporary, the EU will refuse so he will let NI decide in a referendum which the EU won't refuse
    Before Haloween?

    This isn't just any unicorn, it is a unicorn that pays golden eggs!
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Where does he get a GB FTA from before Oct 31st? There is no renegotiation and nobody to negotiate it with.
    The renegotiation is to remove the temporary Customs Union for GB May asked for no Barnier.

    Boris will also ask to remove the backstop or make it temporary, the EU will refuse so he will let NI decide in a referendum which the EU won't refuse
    Before Haloween?

    This isn't just any unicorn, it is a unicorn that pays golden eggs!
    Barnier would remove the temporary Customs Union for GB in a day as it is part of the future Political Declaration rather than the Withdrawal Agreement itself
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    alex. said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Where does he get a GB FTA from before Oct 31st? There is no renegotiation and nobody to negotiate it with.
    HYUFD's support is based entirely on a policy that Johnson hasn't espoused, that is unpursuable without a General Election which he has made no commitment to having, reliant on a majority in that election that the polls give no indication would be forthcoming, on the assumption that the Tory majority in that election would be totally in agreement with the policy that he won't publicly declare, and envisages a timescale that is out of all proportion with reality.

    But other than that he's a good bet.
    It is the policy Boris will pursue if he wins as was reported on Twitter last week
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Where does he get a GB FTA from before Oct 31st? There is no renegotiation and nobody to negotiate it with.
    The renegotiation is to remove the temporary Customs Union for GB May asked for not Barnier.

    Boris will also ask to remove the backstop or make it temporary, the EU will refuse so he will let NI decide in a referendum which the EU won't refuse
    You are aware that the backstop is there to protect Ireland, as well as Northern Ireland. The EU won't abandon the Republic just because the Northern Irish agree to it.
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    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Can that all be done before 1_Nov, with the legislation passing both Brussels and Westminster, or do you see an extension.

    A General Election would consume half that time even in the unlikely event of a Conservative victory.
    The Withdrawal Agreement and Brexit can pass before 1st November with a Tory majority and temporary Customs Union for GB removed certainly.

    There may be a short extension for a confirmatory referendum in NI on the backstop only
    There is no “Tory majority” in the current Parliament.

    They are supported by the DUP who are implacably opposed to anything that treats NI differently to the mainland. If you think that a referendum will make MPs fall in line behind the winning position, then I suggest you recap the last few years of British politics.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Where does he get a GB FTA from before Oct 31st? There is no renegotiation and nobody to negotiate it with.
    The renegotiation is to remove the temporary Customs Union for GB May asked for no Barnier.

    Boris will also ask to remove the backstop or make it temporary, the EU will refuse so he will let NI decide in a referendum which the EU won't refuse
    Before Haloween?

    This isn't just any unicorn, it is a unicorn that pays golden eggs!
    I’ll wait and see how long it is before one of my brexit supporting drinking partners comes out with this line. Dr Fox has shot the GATT 24 lie down and Hunt has, possibly deliberately warned of the problems of WTO, so they will need a new unicorn to cling to.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Where does he get a GB FTA from before Oct 31st? There is no renegotiation and nobody to negotiate it with.
    HYUFD's support is based entirely on a policy that Johnson hasn't espoused, that is unpursuable without a General Election which he has made no commitment to having, reliant on a majority in that election that the polls give no indication would be forthcoming, on the assumption that the Tory majority in that election would be totally in agreement with the policy that he won't publicly declare, and envisages a timescale that is out of all proportion with reality.

    But other than that he's a good bet.
    It is the policy Boris will pursue if he wins as was reported on Twitter last week
    Reported where on twitter and by who?
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Times ($): ‘Jeremy Hunt: I would be PM most feared by Nicola Sturgeon’

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jeremy-hunt-i-would-be-pm-most-feared-by-nicola-sturgeon-qvq9nskc6

    That’s true, but it’s nothing to do with his tedious, standard repetition of rejecting Scottish popular sovereignty. It’s much simpler than that: Hunt doesn’t come across as a complete weirdo.

    Scots won’t warm to Hunt, but they won’t immediately detest the man from Day 1.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    IanB2 said:

    Hunt asking the BBC to arrange a debate in the next fortnight and empty chairing Chicken Bozo if he doesn't turn up.

    somebody needs to tell Matt Hancock not to use the phrase "Boris has an exciting domestic agenda"

    a bit too exciting according to the neighbours
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Saw a snippet of the BBC papers last night. Discussion of the EU with a 'slightly softer' Brexit being described as membership of the customs union.

    It's insane that the dichotomy that's developed is between departure not worth doing (customs union) and leaving with no deal at all, when those are practically the two most extreme varieties of leaving and there's a huge spectrum in between.

    Combination of May's ill thought out rhetoric, and negotiation, and the unwillingness of MPs to bite the bullet and back something. *sighs*
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256

    Times ($): ‘Jeremy Hunt: I would be PM most feared by Nicola Sturgeon’

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jeremy-hunt-i-would-be-pm-most-feared-by-nicola-sturgeon-qvq9nskc6

    That’s true, but it’s nothing to do with his tedious, standard repetition of rejecting Scottish popular sovereignty. It’s much simpler than that: Hunt doesn’t come across as a complete weirdo.

    Scots won’t warm to Hunt, but they won’t immediately detest the man from Day 1.

    Hunt will be the sensible choice we'll wish we'd taken, a la Miliband or Cooper.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,078
    @HYUFD doesn’t power sharing in Northern Ireland mean that majority rule is irrelevant?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited June 2019

    Times ($): ‘Jeremy Hunt: I would be PM most feared by Nicola Sturgeon’

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jeremy-hunt-i-would-be-pm-most-feared-by-nicola-sturgeon-qvq9nskc6

    That’s true, but it’s nothing to do with his tedious, standard repetition of rejecting Scottish popular sovereignty. It’s much simpler than that: Hunt doesn’t come across as a complete weirdo.

    Scots won’t warm to Hunt, but they won’t immediately detest the man from Day 1.

    Hunt has a -27% rating with Panelbase with Scots yesterday and lower positives than Boris even if lower negatives too
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,078
    edited June 2019
    alex. said:

    Reported where on twitter and by who?

    Was a tweet by Ceremy Jorbyn from Islington.
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HYUFD said:
    Or maybe we'll be like an England batting unit from the 90s.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Where does he get a GB FTA from before Oct 31st? There is no renegotiation and nobody to negotiate it with.
    The renegotiation is to remove the temporary Customs Union for GB May asked for not Barnier.

    Boris will also ask to remove the backstop or make it temporary, the EU will refuse so he will let NI decide in a referendum which the EU won't refuse
    You are aware that the backstop is there to protect Ireland, as well as Northern Ireland. The EU won't abandon the Republic just because the Northern Irish agree to it.
    The polling shows quite clearly most Northern Irish voters will back the backstop to avoid a hard border.

    However if they don't and Varadkar and the EU want to enforce a hard border so be it
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Where does he get a GB FTA from before Oct 31st? There is no renegotiation and nobody to negotiate it with.
    The renegotiation is to remove the temporary Customs Union for GB May asked for not Barnier.

    Boris will also ask to remove the backstop or make it temporary, the EU will refuse so he will let NI decide in a referendum which the EU won't refuse
    You are aware that the backstop is there to protect Ireland, as well as Northern Ireland. The EU won't abandon the Republic just because the Northern Irish agree to it.
    Tories see no Ireland, hear no Ireland and speak no Ireland.
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    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,781
    The irony is that for those that want Brexit, it is clear to anyone that understands principles of leadership that Hunt stands a much higher chance of achieving Brexit than Johnson.
    Johnson has no managerial skills, no diplomatic skills and is lazier than David Davis. "Oh but he has charisma, and believes in Brexit" says HYUFD with blind loyalty. The latter is highly unlikely and the former is largely irrelevant if he has none of the other skills. If you want Brexit to die a death, vote Boris. Hmm, maybe I should just abstain!
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Mr HY do you agree with Hunt?
    No, I back a GB FTA and referendum in NI on the backstop, hence I am voting Boris!
    Can that all be done before 1_Nov, with the legislation passing both Brussels and Westminster, or do you see an extension.

    A General Election would consume half that time even in the unlikely event of a Conservative victory.
    The Withdrawal Agreement and Brexit can pass before 1st November with a Tory majority and temporary Customs Union for GB removed certainly.

    There may be a short extension for a confirmatory referendum in NI on the backstop only
    There is no “Tory majority” in the current Parliament.

    They are supported by the DUP who are implacably opposed to anything that treats NI differently to the mainland. If you think that a referendum will make MPs fall in line behind the winning position, then I suggest you recap the last few years of British politics.
    A Tory majority after a general election removes the need for DUP support
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just found the story about Boris' car... Really quite warming to him now.

    ?
    its a mess inside .. one presumes
    Oh. Thought it was something interesting... like parking tickets...
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,078
    HYUFD said:
    The constant supply of food and other resources from the United States had nothing to do with it of course.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    edited June 2019
    Priti Patel on R4 showing that either she is a moron or she believes her audience are morons.

    Sensible Boris tactic that said - dissemble and bluster until it's all over. Definite shades of TMay's 2017 campaign. We shall see if it's successful this time round.
This discussion has been closed.