OT Just seen the CH4 debate between Swinson and Davey. First time I've really seen Swinson. Liked them both. Great contrast to the trully horrible Tory obsessives. For Me Swinson just edged it. Slightly more presence and a Scottish accent is a big positive. I also liked the subtle choice of wearing yellow.
When I saw them last Monday, I also thought they were both very good. Davey is the more "activist" of the two with a proven track record in SW London and he's more in the Ashdown/Farron mode - plenty of energy and speaks to the activists but that is limiting.
Jo Swinson seems able to speak to the wider audience and would of course be the contrast to Johnson, Corbyn and even Farage. That's not a reason in and of itself for her to be Party leader of course but the LDs don't have the luxury of picking a leader that suits us but a leader likely to reach out to voters beyond the 20% (or 30%, or 10% or whatever).
I'm not finding this an easy decision at all.
Me neither, but it's a great difficult decision to have.
Blimey, are there more Lib Dem members on PB than non-members?!
Warren vs Kamala in debate will be very interesting. Looking forward to that. If the Dem race boils down to these two I will be happy and relaxed. Trump is toast against either but IMO marginally more crisp and burnt if the junior senator from California gets the nod. The fact that she is my main bet has absolutely nothing to do with this assessment. It is 100% objective based on the evidence of my eyes and ears.
If it is Warren v Harris Trump will be laughing all the way to re election, he probably wins the popular vote against either as well as likely increasing his Electoral College margin.
If the Democrats really think two liberal coastal elitists stand a better chance of beating Trump in the Electoral College than a charismatic centrist from rustbelt Pennsylvania like Joe Biden then they deserve to lose in 2020
Elizabeth Warren is from Oklahoma and is pitching for the swing middle class voters needed to win in 2020. Biden is a serial loser for a reason and I think Trump would get the better of him too.
OT Just seen the CH4 debate between Swinson and Davey. First time I've really seen Swinson. Liked them both. Great contrast to the trully horrible Tory obsessives. For Me Swinson just edged it. Slightly more presence and a Scottish accent is a big positive. I also liked the subtle choice of wearing yellow.
When I saw them last Monday, I also thought they were both very good. Davey is the more "activist" of the two with a proven track record in SW London and he's more in the Ashdown/Farron mode - plenty of energy and speaks to the activists but that is limiting.
Jo Swinson seems able to speak to the wider audience and would of course be the contrast to Johnson, Corbyn and even Farage. That's not a reason in and of itself for her to be Party leader of course but the LDs don't have the luxury of picking a leader that suits us but a leader likely to reach out to voters beyond the 20% (or 30%, or 10% or whatever).
I'm not finding this an easy decision at all.
Me neither, but it's a great difficult decision to have.
Blimey, are there more Lib Dem members on PB than non-members?!
Even some of the ostensible Tories and Labour supporters on PB are basically LDs
Warren vs Kamala in debate will be very interesting. Looking forward to that. If the Dem race boils down to these two I will be happy and relaxed. Trump is toast against either but IMO marginally more crisp and burnt if the junior senator from California gets the nod. The fact that she is my main bet has absolutely nothing to do with this assessment. It is 100% objective based on the evidence of my eyes and ears.
If it is Warren v Harris Trump will be laughing all the way to re election, he probably wins the popular vote against either as well as likely increasing his Electoral College margin.
If the Democrats really think two liberal coastal elitists stand a better chance of beating Trump in the Electoral College than a charismatic centrist from rustbelt Pennsylvania like Joe Biden then they deserve to lose in 2020
Elizabeth Warren is from Oklahoma and is pitching for the swing middle class voters needed to win in 2020. Biden is a serial loser for a reason and I think Trump would get the better of him too.
Elizabeth Warren is a Senator from Massachusetts, about the most left liberal state in the US and is pitching to the cultural and economic left.
Biden won 2 presidential elections with Obama and was re elected as Senator from Delaware in the 1980s even when Reagan and Bush Snr won the state
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
I think the Tory party is dead - the only question is when it's death becomes obvious....
The Tory party is not dead , it will adapt and survive as it always has , its sole purpose is winning elections and the pursuit of power . It will all change once brexit is delivered
What is wrong with you people? Brexit does not 'end' once(if) we leave. This will dominate British politics for the next 20 years.
Of course it won't. Our relationship with the continent will continue to be a big issue - as it has always been.
There will be those of the view that no matter the end result, the Brexit will never be hard enough. There will be those who want to rejoin the EU. There will be those who want to rejoin EEA/The Single Market.
People are kidding themselves if they think this all goes away.
No country wants to join the EU unless they need the money.
Source?
Country?
Scotland.
An independent Scotland would require significant financial support. Whether it would get it is another question entirely.
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
Yes indeed. Probably flattering, in a way, but truth is even if all of Hong Kong literally wanted to come back under our control we'd not be in a position to piss off the Chinese by pressing the issue.
OT Just seen the CH4 debate between Swinson and Davey. First time I've really seen Swinson. Liked them both. Great contrast to the trully horrible Tory obsessives. For Me Swinson just edged it. Slightly more presence and a Scottish accent is a big positive. I also liked the subtle choice of wearing yellow.
When I saw them last Monday, I also thought they were both very good. Davey is the more "activist" of the two with a proven track record in SW London and he's more in the Ashdown/Farron mode - plenty of energy and speaks to the activists but that is limiting.
Jo Swinson seems able to speak to the wider audience and would of course be the contrast to Johnson, Corbyn and even Farage. That's not a reason in and of itself for her to be Party leader of course but the LDs don't have the luxury of picking a leader that suits us but a leader likely to reach out to voters beyond the 20% (or 30%, or 10% or whatever).
I'm not finding this an easy decision at all.
Me neither, but it's a great difficult decision to have.
Blimey, are there more Lib Dem members on PB than non-members?!
Even some of the ostensible Tories and Labour supporters on PB are basically LDs
Ostensible including those who actually vote for the parties in questions more often than 'real' Tories thesedays.
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
Oh, I agree. It is just that after Brexit, beggars cannot be choosers.
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
What can we gonna do about it? Nowt, that's what.
Err, well we can’t send in the Royal Navy if that’s what you thought I meant.
We can robustly challenge China in private and underline our stance in public too to apply pressure, as the USA is doing, and leverage our soft power.
Warren vs Kamala in debate will be very interesting. Looking forward to that. If the Dem race boils down to these two I will be happy and relaxed. Trump is toast against either but IMO marginally more crisp and burnt if the junior senator from California gets the nod. The fact that she is my main bet has absolutely nothing to do with this assessment. It is 100% objective based on the evidence of my eyes and ears.
If it is Warren v Harris Trump will be laughing all the way to re election, he probably wins the popular vote against either as well as likely increasing his Electoral College margin.
If the Democrats really think two liberal coastal elitists stand a better chance of beating Trump in the Electoral College than a charismatic centrist from rustbelt Pennsylvania like Joe Biden then they deserve to lose in 2020
Elizabeth Warren is from Oklahoma and is pitching for the swing middle class voters needed to win in 2020. Biden is a serial loser for a reason and I think Trump would get the better of him too.
Elizabeth Warren is a Senator from Massachusetts, about the most left liberal state in the US and is pitching to the cultural and economic left.
Biden won 2 presidential elections with Obama and was re elected as Senator from Delaware in the 1980s even when Reagan and Bush Snr won the state
Biden is Senator for the left liberal state of Delaware is he not?
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
Honour is cheap. We don't want to annoy the chinese as the 21st century rolls on. Given what they get away with with the rest of their people I cannot see that an honourable stand about them keeping to their word on Hong Kong will achieve anything. Sad, but they are on their own, facing a juggernaut.
OT Just seen the CH4 debate between Swinson and Davey. First time I've really seen Swinson. Liked them both. Great contrast to the trully horrible Tory obsessives. For Me Swinson just edged it. Slightly more presence and a Scottish accent is a big positive. I also liked the subtle choice of wearing yellow.
When I saw them last Monday, I also thought they were both very good. Davey is the more "activist" of the two with a proven track record in SW London and he's more in the Ashdown/Farron mode - plenty of energy and speaks to the activists but that is limiting.
Jo Swinson seems able to speak to the wider audience and would of course be the contrast to Johnson, Corbyn and even Farage. That's not a reason in and of itself for her to be Party leader of course but the LDs don't have the luxury of picking a leader that suits us but a leader likely to reach out to voters beyond the 20% (or 30%, or 10% or whatever).
I'm not finding this an easy decision at all.
Me neither, but it's a great difficult decision to have.
Blimey, are there more Lib Dem members on PB than non-members?!
Even some of the ostensible Tories and Labour supporters on PB are basically LDs
As the Tories have retreated to Brexitland and Labour have descended into anti-semitism, remaining boringly sensible has made the LDs look more appealing by the day.
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
I can't see the Chinese ripping up the Anglo-Sino Agreement being good for relations, but the Chinese have stated very clearly they do not care so why should we now tiptoe around this, as Prince Charles put it, waxwork regime?
That flag is a stick in the eye to Peking. We should encourage it. My personal belief is that all citizens of Hong Kong should have, and should still, be offered the chance to become full British subjects. Drain Hong Kong of its wonderful, educated and civilised people.
Warren vs Kamala in debate will be very interesting. Looking forward to that. If the Dem race boils down to these two I will be happy and relaxed. Trump is toast against either but IMO marginally more crisp and burnt if the junior senator from California gets the nod. The fact that she is my main bet has absolutely nothing to do with this assessment. It is 100% objective based on the evidence of my eyes and ears.
If it is Warren v Harris Trump will be laughing all the way to re election, he probably wins the popular vote against either as well as likely increasing his Electoral College margin.
If the Democrats really think two left liberal coastal elitists stand a better chance of beating Trump in the Electoral College than a charismatic centrist from rustbelt Pennsylvania like Joe Biden then they deserve to lose in 2020
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
I can't see the Chinese ripping up the Anglo-Sino Agreement being good for relations, but the Chinese have stated very clearly they do not care so why should we now tiptoe around this, as Prince Charles put it, waxwork regime?
That flag is a stick in the eye to Peking. We should encourage it. My personal belief is that all citizens of Hong Kong should have, and should still, be offered the chance to become full British subjects. Drain Hong Kong of its wonderful, educated and civilised people.
Most are British Nationals (Overseas) and already have privileges in the UK.
I think Hong Kong should be a Trojan horse for the reform of China proper and Western policy should be geared for it to be so.
Otherwise in 28 years time, when the agreement expires, China proper will just assimilate it wholesale and snuff out its freedoms like The Borg.
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
I can't see the Chinese ripping up the Anglo-Sino Agreement being good for relations, but the Chinese have stated very clearly they do not care so why should we now tiptoe around this, as Prince Charles put it, waxwork regime?
That flag is a stick in the eye to Peking. We should encourage it. My personal belief is that all citizens of Hong Kong should have, and should still, be offered the chance to become full British subjects. Drain Hong Kong of its wonderful, educated and civilised people.
7.4m people would take some absorbing... I can see that playing well in Brexit Britain.
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
Honour is cheap. We don't want to annoy the chinese as the 21st century rolls on. Given what they get away with with the rest of their people I cannot see that an honourable stand about them keeping to their word on Hong Kong will achieve anything. Sad, but they are on their own, facing a juggernaut.
Honour in Imperial times was often sold quite cheaply.
Hence the Arab saying, "It is better to be an enemy of the British than a friend, as they buy their enemies and sell their friends".
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
I can't see the Chinese ripping up the Anglo-Sino Agreement being good for relations, but the Chinese have stated very clearly they do not care so why should we now tiptoe around this, as Prince Charles put it, waxwork regime?
That flag is a stick in the eye to Peking. We should encourage it. My personal belief is that all citizens of Hong Kong should have, and should still, be offered the chance to become full British subjects. Drain Hong Kong of its wonderful, educated and civilised people.
I think Hong Kong should be a Trojan horse for the reform of China proper and Western policy should be geared for it to be so.
Otherwise in 28 years time, when the agreement expires, China proper will just assimilate it wholesale and snuff out its freedoms like The Borg.
Isn't the fear of the first sentence the entire reason China has acted the way it has for some time, so it can achieve the second sentence?
Is it time to make cannabis legal in the UK? Today, the Evening Standard launches a major investigation to find the right answer. [..] Our exclusive poll today says 63 per cent of Londoners and 47 per cent of people across the UK are in favour — with less than a third against.
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
Honour is cheap. We don't want to annoy the chinese as the 21st century rolls on. Given what they get away with with the rest of their people I cannot see that an honourable stand about them keeping to their word on Hong Kong will achieve anything. Sad, but they are on their own, facing a juggernaut.
Sorry, I think that’s rank cowardice.
Since when did standing up for anything worthwhile come without a price?
That’s not the sort of nation we are. There will be no victory or benefit in the long term from avoiding the issue in the hope of a few extra quid of investment or so we can continue to be able to buy cheap plastic ducks. We will earn their contempt, and rightly so.
Either we stand up and fight for our values or we are nothing.
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
Honour is cheap. We don't want to annoy the chinese as the 21st century rolls on. Given what they get away with with the rest of their people I cannot see that an honourable stand about them keeping to their word on Hong Kong will achieve anything. Sad, but they are on their own, facing a juggernaut.
Sorry, I think that’s rank cowardice.
Since when did standing up for anything worthwhile come without a price?
That’s not the sort of nation we are. There will be no victory or benefit in the long term from avoiding the issue in the hope of a few extra quid of investment or so we can continue to be able to buy cheap plastic ducks. We will earn their contempt, and rightly so.
Either we stand up and fight for our values or we are nothing.
I agree it is rank cowardice. It is also what we will do. I am far from the kind of misery guts who bemoans every aspect of British history as a shameful episode, and I regularly criticise those who whine about us being humiliated in our global standing in the present day, but we are absolutely the sort of nation which will knuckle under, restrict ourselves to perhaps quite stern statements, as China does whatever it wants in Hong Kong. It may well take them a bit longer than they would like, but they'll get there.
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Quite likely IMO. The police stood off rather too far.
Incidentally there is this interesting new series coming soon, on the Opium War, and the trade in coolies. Sounds interesting. Kapur is a great film maker.
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
It being respected or not was not the point, I suspect. But rather that its appearance will make it easier to dismiss the protestors. It's not like all of Hong Kong is behind them.
I think the Tory party is dead - the only question is when it's death becomes obvious....
The Tory party is not dead , it will adapt and survive as it always has , its sole purpose is winning elections and the pursuit of power . It will all change once brexit is delivered
What is wrong with you people? Brexit does not 'end' once(if) we leave. This will dominate British politics for the next 20 years.
Of course it won't. Our relationship with the continent will continue to be a big issue - as it has always been.
There will be those of the view that no matter the end result, the Brexit will never be hard enough. There will be those who want to rejoin the EU. There will be those who want to rejoin EEA/The Single Market.
People are kidding themselves if they think this all goes away.
No country wants to join the EU unless they need the money.
Source?
Country?
Scotland.
An independent Scotland would require significant financial support. Whether it would get it is another question entirely.
Absolute nonsense.
An Independent Scotland would be a basketcase. All Scots should be considering betting on an Independent Scotland once the markets are up as "Independence Insurance"
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
Is it time to make cannabis legal in the UK? Today, the Evening Standard launches a major investigation to find the right answer. [..] Our exclusive poll today says 63 per cent of Londoners and 47 per cent of people across the UK are in favour — with less than a third against.
Obvious gag being, how many of those answering the poll were high at the time?
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
Oh, I agree. It is just that after Brexit, beggars cannot be choosers.
We were hardly standing up to them before!
I wonder what stance Camborne would have taken? At one point they talked about being China's best friend in the west.
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?
It's odds-on the flag was planted there by the Chinese authorities to discredit the protestors.
Is it time to make cannabis legal in the UK? Today, the Evening Standard launches a major investigation to find the right answer. [..] Our exclusive poll today says 63 per cent of Londoners and 47 per cent of people across the UK are in favour — with less than a third against.
Obvious gag being, how many of those answering the poll were high at the time?
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?
It's odds-on the flag was planted there by the Chinese authorities to discredit the protestors.
Total nonsense. You probably believe Trump is a Russian plant too.
Examine footage from the protests and it has been seen time and time again in the crowds. Even before the protests, it appears every year at a march over the whole issue.
Is it time to make cannabis legal in the UK? Today, the Evening Standard launches a major investigation to find the right answer. [..] Our exclusive poll today says 63 per cent of Londoners and 47 per cent of people across the UK are in favour — with less than a third against.
Obvious gag being, how many of those answering the poll were high at the time?
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
Honour is cheap. We don't want to annoy the chinese as the 21st century rolls on. Given what they get away with with the rest of their people I cannot see that an honourable stand about them keeping to their word on Hong Kong will achieve anything. Sad, but they are on their own, facing a juggernaut.
Honour in Imperial times was often sold quite cheaply.
Hence the Arab saying, "It is better to be an enemy of the British than a friend, as they buy their enemies and sell their friends".
No one is saying Cannabis is harmless, but Alcohol isn't harmless either but we accept that most people use it sensibly so it remains legal, despite all the problems it causes.
Warren vs Kamala in debate will be very interesting. Looking forward to that. If the Dem race boils down to these two I will be happy and relaxed. Trump is toast against either but IMO marginally more crisp and burnt if the junior senator from California gets the nod. The fact that she is my main bet has absolutely nothing to do with this assessment. It is 100% objective based on the evidence of my eyes and ears.
If it is Warren v Harris Trump will be laughing all the way to re election, he probably wins the popular vote against either as well as likely increasing his Electoral College margin.
If the Democrats really think two liberal coastal elitists stand a better chance of beating Trump in the Electoral College than a charismatic centrist from rustbelt Pennsylvania like Joe Biden then they deserve to lose in 2020
Elizabeth Warren is from Oklahoma and is pitching for the swing middle class voters needed to win in 2020. Biden is a serial loser for a reason and I think Trump would get the better of him too.
Elizabeth Warren is a Senator from Massachusetts, about the most left liberal state in the US and is pitching to the cultural and economic left.
Biden won 2 presidential elections with Obama and was re elected as Senator from Delaware in the 1980s even when Reagan and Bush Snr won the state
Biden is Senator for the left liberal state of Delaware is he not?
Delaware voted for Nixon in 1972 and Bush Snr in 1988, Massachusetts voted for McGovern and Dukakis
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
Honour is cheap. We don't want to annoy the chinese as the 21st century rolls on. Given what they get away with with the rest of their people I cannot see that an honourable stand about them keeping to their word on Hong Kong will achieve anything. Sad, but they are on their own, facing a juggernaut.
Honour in Imperial times was often sold quite cheaply.
Hence the Arab saying, "It is better to be an enemy of the British than a friend, as they buy their enemies and sell their friends".
Warren vs Kamala in debate will be very interesting. Looking forward to that. If the Dem race boils down to these two I will be happy and relaxed. Trump is toast against either but IMO marginally more crisp and burnt if the junior senator from California gets the nod. The fact that she is my main bet has absolutely nothing to do with this assessment. It is 100% objective based on the evidence of my eyes and ears.
If it is Warren v Harris Trump will be laughing all the way to re election, he probably wins the popular vote against either as well as likely increasing his Electoral College margin.
If the Democrats really think two liberal coastal elitists stand a better chance of beating Trump in the Electoral College than a charismatic centrist from rustbelt Pennsylvania like Joe Biden then they deserve to lose in 2020
Elizabeth Warren is from Oklahoma and is pitching for the swing middle class voters needed to win in 2020. Biden is a serial loser for a reason and I think Trump would get the better of him too.
Elizabeth Warren is a Senator from Massachusetts, about the most left liberal state in the US and is pitching to the cultural and economic left.
Biden won 2 presidential elections with Obama and was re elected as Senator from Delaware in the 1980s even when Reagan and Bush Snr won the state
Biden is Senator for the left liberal state of Delaware is he not?
Delaware voted for Nixon in 2972
Wait, Futurama was right about that, just off by 30 years?
Is it time to make cannabis legal in the UK? Today, the Evening Standard launches a major investigation to find the right answer. [..] Our exclusive poll today says 63 per cent of Londoners and 47 per cent of people across the UK are in favour — with less than a third against.
Obvious gag being, how many of those answering the poll were high at the time?
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?
It's odds-on the flag was planted there by the Chinese authorities to discredit the protestors.
You mean like the tanks planted in Tiananmen Square in 1989?
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?
Because you get off on old colonial symbols and terminology like ‘Peking’.
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
Honour is cheap. We don't want to annoy the chinese as the 21st century rolls on. Given what they get away with with the rest of their people I cannot see that an honourable stand about them keeping to their word on Hong Kong will achieve anything. Sad, but they are on their own, facing a juggernaut.
Sorry, I think that’s rank cowardice.
Since when did standing up for anything worthwhile come without a price?
That’s not the sort of nation we are. There will be no victory or benefit in the long term from avoiding the issue in the hope of a few extra quid of investment or so we can continue to be able to buy cheap plastic ducks. We will earn their contempt, and rightly so.
Either we stand up and fight for our values or we are nothing.
The strong do what they can while the weak suffer what they must. Britain chose to weaken itself when it left the EU. You willed Britain’s increased impotence when you chose to support Brexit.
Warren vs Kamala in debate will be very interesting. Looking forward to that. If the Dem race boils down to these two I will be happy and relaxed. Trump is toast against either but IMO marginally more crisp and burnt if the junior senator from California gets the nod. The fact that she is my main bet has absolutely nothing to do with this assessment. It is 100% objective based on the evidence of my eyes and ears.
If it is Warren v Harris Trump will be laughing all the way to re election, he probably wins the popular vote against either as well as likely increasing his Electoral College margin.
If the Democrats really think two liberal coastal elitists stand a better chance of beating Trump in the Electoral College than a charismatic centrist from rustbelt Pennsylvania like Joe Biden then they deserve to lose in 2020
Elizabeth Warren is from Oklahoma and is pitching for the swing middle class voters needed to win in 2020. Biden is a serial loser for a reason and I think Trump would get the better of him too.
Elizabeth Warren is a Senator from Massachusetts, about the most left liberal state in the US and is pitching to the cultural and economic left.
Biden won 2 presidential elections with Obama and was re elected as Senator from Delaware in the 1980s even when Reagan and Bush Snr won the state
Biden is Senator for the left liberal state of Delaware is he not?
Delaware voted for Nixon in 1972 and Bush Snr in 1988, Massachusetts voted for McGovern and Dukakis
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
Honour is cheap. We don't want to annoy the chinese as the 21st century rolls on. Given what they get away with with the rest of their people I cannot see that an honourable stand about them keeping to their word on Hong Kong will achieve anything. Sad, but they are on their own, facing a juggernaut.
Honour in Imperial times was often sold quite cheaply.
Hence the Arab saying, "It is better to be an enemy of the British than a friend, as they buy their enemies and sell their friends".
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?
Because you get off on old colonial symbols and terminology like ‘Peking’.
OT Just seen the CH4 debate between Swinson and Davey. First time I've really seen Swinson. Liked them both. Great contrast to the trully horrible Tory obsessives. For Me Swinson just edged it. Slightly more presence and a Scottish accent is a big positive. I also liked the subtle choice of wearing yellow.
When I saw them last Monday, I also thought they were both very good. Davey is the more "activist" of the two with a proven track record in SW London and he's more in the Ashdown/Farron mode - plenty of energy and speaks to the activists but that is limiting.
Jo Swinson seems able to speak to the wider audience and would of course be the contrast to Johnson, Corbyn and even Farage. That's not a reason in and of itself for her to be Party leader of course but the LDs don't have the luxury of picking a leader that suits us but a leader likely to reach out to voters beyond the 20% (or 30%, or 10% or whatever).
I'm not finding this an easy decision at all.
Me neither, but it's a great difficult decision to have.
Blimey, are there more Lib Dem members on PB than non-members?!
Even some of the ostensible Tories and Labour supporters on PB are basically LDs
Stories like that just make me think 'how would I know what the right sized Cabinet is anyway?'. Is it too large at the moment? Not large enough? I'd have no idea.
Allows him to show he is prepared to tackle waste even as it applies to government offices, and that he is not concerned about handing out lots of prize places to get votes though.
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
Honour is cheap. We don't want to annoy the chinese as the 21st century rolls on. Given what they get away with with the rest of their people I cannot see that an honourable stand about them keeping to their word on Hong Kong will achieve anything. Sad, but they are on their own, facing a juggernaut.
Honour in Imperial times was often sold quite cheaply.
Hence the Arab saying, "It is better to be an enemy of the British than a friend, as they buy their enemies and sell their friends".
I cannot see that being good for Sino-UK relations. Reminders of the century of national humiliation.
China have brought this on themselves by trying to chip away at the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the rights of the Hong Kong people.
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
Honour is cheap. We don't want to annoy the chinese as the 21st century rolls on. Given what they get away with with the rest of their people I cannot see that an honourable stand about them keeping to their word on Hong Kong will achieve anything. Sad, but they are on their own, facing a juggernaut.
Sorry, I think that’s rank cowardice.
Since when did standing up for anything worthwhile come without a price?
That’s not the sort of nation we are. There will be no victory or benefit in the long term from avoiding the issue in the hope of a few extra quid of investment or so we can continue to be able to buy cheap plastic ducks. We will earn their contempt, and rightly so.
Either we stand up and fight for our values or we are nothing.
The strong do what they can while the weak suffer what they must. Britain chose to weaken itself when it left the EU. You willed Britain’s increased impotence when you chose to support Brexit.
If you say so, but do you really think we'd act any differently if we remain in the EU? If it is a moral issue we'd have their backing regardless, surely?
Is it time to make cannabis legal in the UK? Today, the Evening Standard launches a major investigation to find the right answer. [..] Our exclusive poll today says 63 per cent of Londoners and 47 per cent of people across the UK are in favour — with less than a third against.
Obvious gag being, how many of those answering the poll were high at the time?
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?
It's odds-on the flag was planted there by the Chinese authorities to discredit the protestors.
Total nonsense. You probably believe Trump is a Russian plant too.
Examine footage from the protests and it has been seen time and time again in the crowds. Even before the protests, it appears every year at a march over the whole issue.
Well, I've not seen it in footage I've watched - if you want to post a link I'm prepared to be persuaded I'm wrong.
No one is saying Cannabis is harmless, but Alcohol isn't harmless either but we accept that most people use it sensibly so it remains legal, despite all the problems it causes.
And better legalised and regulated - which might well do more to address the health issues. Legalisation need not mean a free for all.
Because you get off on old colonial symbols and terminology like ‘Peking’.
I bet you still call Zimbabwe Rhodesia.
So I take it then that you refer to Paris as Paree, Seville as Sevilla, Prague as Praha and Moscow as Mosckva? If not, why are you being inconsistent? Either you insist on using the native names for all, most of which have totally different sounds in native languages, or do not. I prefer using the names on my own language.
Most of the time anyway, the people who re-name cities or places aren't particulary nice. If you go to Bombay, as I have, you'll notice that many Indians shun the extreme nationalist (invented) name of Mumbai, and still call it Bombay.
I wouldn't call Zimbabwe Rhodesia though. That's an insult to Rhodesia.
No one is saying Cannabis is harmless, but Alcohol isn't harmless either but we accept that most people use it sensibly so it remains legal, despite all the problems it causes.
And better legalised and regulated - which might well do more to address the health issues. Legalisation need not mean a free for all.
Agreed. Legalised, regulated and taxed (to help cover the health costs) - that's the way to go.
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?
Because you get off on old colonial symbols and terminology like ‘Peking’.
I bet you still call Zimbabwe Rhodesia.
Surely nobody calls Zimbabwe Rhodesia?
It was only ever Southern Rhodesia.
Plenty of people do (at least when referring to its past).
OT Just seen the CH4 debate between Swinson and Davey. First time I've really seen Swinson. Liked them both. Great contrast to the trully horrible Tory obsessives. For Me Swinson just edged it. Slightly more presence and a Scottish accent is a big positive. I also liked the subtle choice of wearing yellow.
When I saw them last Monday, I also thought they were both very good. Davey is the more "activist" of the two with a proven track record in SW London and he's more in the Ashdown/Farron mode - plenty of energy and speaks to the activists but that is limiting.
Jo Swinson seems able to speak to the wider audience and would of course be the contrast to Johnson, Corbyn and even Farage. That's not a reason in and of itself for her to be Party leader of course but the LDs don't have the luxury of picking a leader that suits us but a leader likely to reach out to voters beyond the 20% (or 30%, or 10% or whatever).
I'm not finding this an easy decision at all.
I have now voted. Given that I have supported losers in every single leadership election in the party's history I won't reveal my choice for thr moment.
So you were the guy who voted for Alan Beith!
But which of the losing candidates did OGH Snr support in the 1967 Liberal leadership election - Eric Lubbock or Emlyn Hooson?
I believe he was a Labour man until the 1979 parliament!
I wasn't referring to your joke. But to the ES story which might have been better journalism if it had referred to the NHS decision.
Not sure what I think about the issue, but do people like the Standard periodically dumping all news coverage onto page 7 onwards and devoting the first part of the paper entirely to a new campaign idea? I can't really complain as it's free, but I mainly get newspapers to read news - if I want their opinion on something I'll read the editorial or buy a magazine.
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?
Because you get off on old colonial symbols and terminology like ‘Peking’.
I bet you still call Zimbabwe Rhodesia.
Surely nobody calls Zimbabwe Rhodesia?
It was only ever Southern Rhodesia.
Plenty of people do (at least when referring to its past).
That was intended as sarcasm.
It appears not to have quite hit its mark.
The point is it was only called 'Rhodesia' when in rebellion under Smith. When under British control before and after it was Southern Rhodesia.
Because you get off on old colonial symbols and terminology like ‘Peking’.
I bet you still call Zimbabwe Rhodesia.
So I take it then that you refer to Paris as Paree, Seville as Sevilla, Prague as Praha and Moscow as Mosckva? If not, why are you being inconsistent? Either you insist on using the native names for all, most of which have totally different sounds in native languages, or do not. I prefer using the names on my own language.
Most of the time anyway, the people who re-name cities or places aren't particulary nice. If you go to Bombay, as I have, you'll notice that many Indians shun the extreme nationalist (invented) name of Mumbai, and still call it Bombay.
I wouldn't call Zimbabwe Rhodesia though. That's an insult to Rhodesia.
Rhodesia is not the native name. The borders of what is now Zimbabwe were imposed by people from an entirely different continent with no concerns for local culture or geography and when the native people regained control they gave it the most appropriate name they could find, that of an ancient empire within its borders, rather than keeping the name of a guy from a very long way away who happened to conquer them a century earlier.
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?
Because you get off on old colonial symbols and terminology like ‘Peking’.
Warren vs Kamala in debate will be very interesting. Looking forward to that. If the Dem race boils down to these two I will be happy and relaxed. Trump is toast against either but IMO marginally more crisp and burnt if the junior senator from California gets the nod. The fact that she is my main bet has absolutely nothing to do with this assessment. It is 100% objective based on the evidence of my eyes and ears.
If it is Warren v Harris Trump will be laughing all the way to re election, he probably wins the popular vote against either as well as likely increasing his Electoral College margin.
If the Democrats really think two liberal coastal elitists stand a better chance of beating Trump in the Electoral College than a charismatic centrist from rustbelt Pennsylvania like Joe Biden then they deserve to lose in 2020
Elizabeth Warren is from Oklahoma and is pitching for the swing middle class voters needed to win in 2020. Biden is a serial loser for a reason and I think Trump would get the better of him too.
Elizabeth Warren is a Senator from Massachusetts, about the most left liberal state in the US and is pitching to the cultural and economic left.
Biden won 2 presidential elections with Obama and was re elected as Senator from Delaware in the 1980s even when Reagan and Bush Snr won the state
Biden is Senator for the left liberal state of Delaware is he not?
Delaware voted for Nixon in 1972 and Bush Snr in 1988, Massachusetts voted for McGovern and Dukakis
California voted for Nixon, Bush and Reagan.
California as a whole is not left liberal, San Francisco and the Bay area is, even McGovern won there, southern California though is in parts quite conservative
No one is saying Cannabis is harmless, but Alcohol isn't harmless either but we accept that most people use it sensibly so it remains legal, despite all the problems it causes.
I know I am a minority on here on this (at least based on the last time this topic was debated). But given the harm it does to the young, especially, and knowing from personal experience what psychosis can do to a person, I am not really persuaded that legalisation is some sort of cost free relaxation which no-one can really object to.
Mental health has become a fashionable cause these days. Hardly a day passes without advice about how to notice it, how to care for it, how to ensure that we don't stress our children, our colleagues, our employees, our students because mental health is important. And yet at the same time we (some of us) seem relaxed about the idea of allowing a product which does cause serious mental health issues to be sold legally to the very same young people whose mental health we worry about.
It does not really compute for me. It strikes me that the level of thinking is (1) the drugs laws aren't working; (2) therefore let's legalise (without noticing that (2) does not necessarily follow from (1)); and (3) since that is what people want to do let's ignore any evidence suggesting that this might not be a good idea for some. Meanwhile somewhere else in government someone will be talking about how we must look after the mental health of our young people without wondering whether the existing problems with cannabis use might get worse rather than better if it's legalised.
Doubtless we do need a more rational approach to drugs but a bit of joined up thinking on the topic would be good.
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?
The problem is not the HK ensign. The problem is talking hard and doing fuck all. If we were commited to securing the freedom of the people of Hong Kong we could have chosen to stay there (the expiring part of the lease didn't cover the island) or allow the inhabitants to have passports that allowed them to settle in the UK. Given that neither of these things were done and our present shower of shit in Westminster and Whitehall aren't going to allow a mass immigration of millions of people, then all the UK is going to do is fail and blame, a mode of action it is becoming all too comfortable with.
Because you get off on old colonial symbols and terminology like ‘Peking’.
I bet you still call Zimbabwe Rhodesia.
So I take it then that you refer to Paris as Paree, Seville as Sevilla, Prague as Praha and Moscow as Mosckva? If not, why are you being inconsistent? Either you insist on using the native names for all, most of which have totally different sounds in native languages, or do not. I prefer using the names on my own language.
Most of the time anyway, the people who re-name cities or places aren't particulary nice. If you go to Bombay, as I have, you'll notice that many Indians shun the extreme nationalist (invented) name of Mumbai, and still call it Bombay.
I wouldn't call Zimbabwe Rhodesia though. That's an insult to Rhodesia.
Rhodesia is not the native name. The borders of what is now Zimbabwe were imposed by people from an entirely different continent with no concerns for local culture or geography and when the native people regained control they gave it the most appropriate name they could find, that of an ancient empire within its borders, rather than keeping the name of a guy from a very long way away who happened to conquer them a century earlier.
The wheel did not exist there before this guy arrived. So given he and his successors actually built something of merit in an area where there was previously nothing, he has a pretty strong claim to have it named after himself.
Given it is returning to its previous state of nothingness though, it is fitting to revert to the name Zimbabwe. I will give you that.
One would assume the flag business is the work of PRC agents provocateurs
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
That flag is widely respected in Hong Kong. It stands for everything that is good in Hong Kong, as compared to the blood stained cloth of the Peking ghouls. Long may it fly over the bay.
You’re a parody.
Does the flag of HK freedom make you cringe with post-colonial guilt?
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I had nothing to do with colonialism mate and neither did you.
Then what is your apparent problem with the HK Ensign?
The problem is not the HK ensign. The problem is talking hard and doing fuck all. If we were commited to securing the freedom of the people of Hong Kong we could have chosen to stay there (the expiring part of the lease didn't cover the island) or allow the inhabitants to have passports that allowed them to settle in the UK. Given that neither of these things were done and our present shower of shit in Westminster and Whitehall aren't going to allow a mass immigration of millions of people, then all the UK is going to do is fail and blame, a mode of action it is becoming all too comfortable with.
I agree that our treatment of HK was disgraceful.
Our pathetic leaders are willing to send troops and planes to Syria and Libya, areas where we have absolutely no business, but fold over like cheap deckchairs in the face of China. Gutless fools.
If it is Harris or Warren then I think the Dems will lose, unless they tie up the nomination and then tack to the centre ground as fast as they can, before most voters notice.
End of private med insurance etc etc. Trump will be jumping around the room in anticipation.
Comments
A Brexit that results in the dismemberment of our country isn’t one I could support.
Am posting to PB with Firefox where Vanilla embed is loading just fine but embed isn't loading with Google Chrome?
Biden won 2 presidential elections with Obama and was re elected as Senator from Delaware in the 1980s even when Reagan and Bush Snr won the state
I’m a bit tired of our cowardly failure to stand up to China on this and I agree with Chris Patten that it’s a case of national honour to challenge them to uphold their side of the agreement.
We can robustly challenge China in private and underline our stance in public too to apply pressure, as the USA is doing, and leverage our soft power.
"100 per cent. National willy-waving on steroids" doesn't really work. Maybe she should have said on viagra?
That flag is a stick in the eye to Peking. We should encourage it. My personal belief is that all citizens of Hong Kong should have, and should still, be offered the chance to become full British subjects. Drain Hong Kong of its wonderful, educated and civilised people.
We will see.
I think Hong Kong should be a Trojan horse for the reform of China proper and Western policy should be geared for it to be so.
Otherwise in 28 years time, when the agreement expires, China proper will just assimilate it wholesale and snuff out its freedoms like The Borg.
Hence the Arab saying, "It is better to be an enemy of the British than a friend, as they buy their enemies and sell their friends".
Whatever about Harris or Biden, I can't see Warren surviving debates with Trump. Basically she has to convince Obama->Trump supporters she is authentic, fat chance
Is it time to make cannabis legal in the UK? Today, the Evening Standard launches a major investigation to find the right answer.
[..]
Our exclusive poll today says 63 per cent of Londoners and 47 per cent of people across the UK are in favour — with less than a third against.
Since when did standing up for anything worthwhile come without a price?
That’s not the sort of nation we are. There will be no victory or benefit in the long term from avoiding the issue in the hope of a few extra quid of investment or so we can continue to be able to buy cheap plastic ducks. We will earn their contempt, and rightly so.
Either we stand up and fight for our values or we are nothing.
Jo Swinson supporters include Willie Rennie MSP (current SLD leader), Christine Jardine MSP and Sheila Ritchie MEP.
Ed Davey supporters include former leaders Menzies Campbell, Jim Wallace and Tavish Scott.
I must say that Davey has by far the more impressive list of backers.
Incidentally there is this interesting new series coming soon, on the Opium War, and the trade in coolies. Sounds interesting. Kapur is a great film maker.
https://www.thestatesman.com/entertainment/shekhar-kapur-helm-tv-series-amitav-ghoshs-acclaimed-ibis-trilogy-1502740691.html
Oh my. Keep hold of your handbag because it is here to stay.
I wonder what stance Camborne would have taken? At one point they talked about being China's best friend in the west.
Examine footage from the protests and it has been seen time and time again in the crowds. Even before the protests, it appears every year at a march over the whole issue.
The British behaved like every other top dog: they did what they could get away with. Just as every other Imperial power has behaved.
I wasn't referring to your joke. But to the ES story which might have been better journalism if it had referred to the NHS decision.
I bet you still call Zimbabwe Rhodesia.
It was only ever Southern Rhodesia.
Allows him to show he is prepared to tackle waste even as it applies to government offices, and that he is not concerned about handing out lots of prize places to get votes though.
It is why I oppose legalisation, but do support decriminalistion with boosted treatment, like Portugal.
Most of the time anyway, the people who re-name cities or places aren't particulary nice. If you go to Bombay, as I have, you'll notice that many Indians shun the extreme nationalist (invented) name of Mumbai, and still call it Bombay.
I wouldn't call Zimbabwe Rhodesia though. That's an insult to Rhodesia.
It appears not to have quite hit its mark.
The point is it was only called 'Rhodesia' when in rebellion under Smith. When under British control before and after it was Southern Rhodesia.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/451209-gohmert-calls-mueller-an-anal-opening-ahead-of-testimony
“It reinforced the anal opening that I believe Mueller to be.”
Mental health has become a fashionable cause these days. Hardly a day passes without advice about how to notice it, how to care for it, how to ensure that we don't stress our children, our colleagues, our employees, our students because mental health is important. And yet at the same time we (some of us) seem relaxed about the idea of allowing a product which does cause serious mental health issues to be sold legally to the very same young people whose mental health we worry about.
It does not really compute for me. It strikes me that the level of thinking is (1) the drugs laws aren't working; (2) therefore let's legalise (without noticing that (2) does not necessarily follow from (1)); and (3) since that is what people want to do let's ignore any evidence suggesting that this might not be a good idea for some.
Meanwhile somewhere else in government someone will be talking about how we must look after the mental health of our young people without wondering whether the existing problems with cannabis use might get worse rather than better if it's legalised.
Doubtless we do need a more rational approach to drugs but a bit of joined up thinking on the topic would be good.
Given it is returning to its previous state of nothingness though, it is fitting to revert to the name Zimbabwe. I will give you that.
Our pathetic leaders are willing to send troops and planes to Syria and Libya, areas where we have absolutely no business, but fold over like cheap deckchairs in the face of China. Gutless fools.
End of private med insurance etc etc. Trump will be jumping around the room in anticipation.