Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The LDs winning 50%+ of the Brecon & Radnorshire vote looks go

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited July 5 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The LDs winning 50%+ of the Brecon & Radnorshire vote looks good value at 7/2

I may be committing a '@campbellclaret' error by sharing, but I care little!I'm a Labour Party member who is going canvassing to support @DoddsJane of the @WelshLibDems next week in her bid to win the #BreconandRadnorshireby-election.For me, it's #CountryBeforeParty #Remain pic.twitter.com/QtZE6TH72T

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750
    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 11,905

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    2/1 by Sunday!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    Backup AV thread on standby?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750
    RobD said:

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    Backup AV thread on standby?
    There are no more back up AV threads left.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,052
    edited July 5
    Mr. Eagles, is there a tipping equivalent of being gazumped?

    Tipslapped?

    Edited extra bit: I have put a little bit on.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,281
    Oh, what a surprise and entirely as predicted by some of us on here.

    No doubt there will be the usual foaming outrage against the elites from his supporters.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750
    Cyclefree said:

    Oh, what a surprise and entirely as predicted by some of us on here.

    No doubt there will be the usual foaming outrage against the elites from his supporters.
    We're going to get called enemies of the people again.
  • BromBrom Posts: 1,509
    Just catching up with today's headlines and without wanting to big myself up I knew Jess Phillips was a moron months before it became cool to think that.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,281
    Brom said:

    Just catching up with today's headlines and without wanting to big myself up I knew Jess Phillips was a moron months before it became cool to think that.

    What’s she done?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771

    RobD said:

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    Backup AV thread on standby?
    There are no more back up AV threads left.
    Dreadful news. :o :(
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,281

    RobD said:

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    Backup AV thread on standby?
    There are no more back up AV threads left.
    Can’t you recycle an old one? That’s what Johnson does with his columns. And if it’s good enough for the future PM .......

    :)
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,385
    Just seen Big G's comments on spoiling his ballot paper for the Tory leadership on the previous thread. I wonder whether the Tory party really deserve his (and his wife's) support any more - having read many of his posts I can't help thinking he can do better now. But I know loyalties run deep.

    On-topic. I think some people are getting carried away. There is no such thing as an easy by-election win, especially not in a huge constituency like Brecon and Radnorshire. It's all about getting one more vote than the runner-up, and edging the Tory majority down to 0 in the HOC. Anything more is a bonus. Talk of 50+% seems fanciful to me.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    Backup AV thread on standby?
    There are no more back up AV threads left.
    Dreadful news. :o :(
    I do have a thread on where the Brexit trials should take place if Boris Johnson delivers the war crimes of a No Deal Brexit, headline will be

    Is Sunderland the new Nürnberg?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 22,887

    RobD said:

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    Backup AV thread on standby?
    There are no more back up AV threads left.
    You'll have to go with your next preference then.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    FPT Big_G you have my respect for taking a stand on matters of principle that matter to your conscience, as well as voting a spoilt ballot rather than abstaining. To me even if they count the same in the end it is important to vote whenever you can even if it is spoiling your ballot.
  • BromBrom Posts: 1,509
    Cyclefree said:

    Brom said:

    Just catching up with today's headlines and without wanting to big myself up I knew Jess Phillips was a moron months before it became cool to think that.

    What’s she done?
    Stuck her kid on the doorstep of number 10 to get some much needed publicity. Poor sod.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750
    edited July 5
    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    Backup AV thread on standby?
    There are no more back up AV threads left.
    Can’t you recycle an old one? That’s what Johnson does with his columns. And if it’s good enough for the future PM .......

    :)
    Can I let you in to a little secret.

    About 23 years ago, because I love my classics and history, I was very tempted to read Literae humaniores at Oxford, but I decided against it, because I wanted to do a degree with a definitive career pathway, now that's the degree our likely next PM read.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 25,474
    Looks a very decent bet to me.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 19,234
    NOW 3/1
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,385
    Brom said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brom said:

    Just catching up with today's headlines and without wanting to big myself up I knew Jess Phillips was a moron months before it became cool to think that.

    What’s she done?
    Stuck her kid on the doorstep of number 10 to get some much needed publicity. Poor sod.


  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750
    ICYMI - Happy Golden Wedding Anniversary to Mike and Jacky Smithson.

    Though I'm still reeling from seeing a picture of OGH with a full head of hair.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,281

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    Backup AV thread on standby?
    There are no more back up AV threads left.
    Can’t you recycle an old one? That’s what Johnson does with his columns. And if it’s good enough for the future PM .......

    :)
    Can I let you in to a little secret.

    About 23 years ago, because I love my classics and history, I was very tempted to read Literae humaniores at Oxford, but I decided against it, because I wanted to do a degree with a definitive career pathway, now that's the degree our likely next PM read.
    We shall continue this discussion on Monday......
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 449
    Brom said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brom said:

    Just catching up with today's headlines and without wanting to big myself up I knew Jess Phillips was a moron months before it became cool to think that.

    What’s she done?
    Stuck her kid on the doorstep of number 10 to get some much needed publicity. Poor sod.
    Jumping the gun a bit, isn't she? Boris hasn't even moved in to No 10 yet, it's a bit early for women to be dumping love-children on the door step there.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 19,234
    edited July 5
    tpfkar said:

    Just seen Big G's comments on spoiling his ballot paper for the Tory leadership on the previous thread. I wonder whether the Tory party really deserve his (and his wife's) support any more - having read many of his posts I can't help thinking he can do better now. But I know loyalties run deep.

    On-topic. I think some people are getting carried away. There is no such thing as an easy by-election win, especially not in a huge constituency like Brecon and Radnorshire. It's all about getting one more vote than the runner-up, and edging the Tory majority down to 0 in the HOC. Anything more is a bonus. Talk of 50+% seems fanciful to me.

    Labour was pushed down to 10% there in 2010, and could easily be in single figures given the focus of a by-election and its recent polling. The LibDems should start with most of the Remain half of the seat, less the small bit that stays with Labour, so already in the 40%s, leaving the Tories and BXP to fight over the leave half. Then the superior LibDem ground game needs to take them over the 50% mark.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,052
    Mr. Eagles, indeed, that sounds like Sejanus in I, Claudius (although, thankfully, with a rather happier and lengthier romance).
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,281

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    There’s an election in Greece on Sunday. https://unherd.com/2019/07/why-the-heat-is-on-for-greece/

    Surely one for a classics enthusiast......
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    Backup AV thread on standby?
    There are no more back up AV threads left.
    Dreadful news. :o :(
    I do have a thread on where the Brexit trials should take place if Boris Johnson delivers the war crimes of a No Deal Brexit, headline will be

    Is Sunderland the new Nürnberg?
    As a Brexiteer, I’m more of a fan of the rallies rather than the trials :smiley: :p
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,385
    Animal_pb said:

    Brom said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brom said:

    Just catching up with today's headlines and without wanting to big myself up I knew Jess Phillips was a moron months before it became cool to think that.

    What’s she done?
    Stuck her kid on the doorstep of number 10 to get some much needed publicity. Poor sod.
    Jumping the gun a bit, isn't she? Boris hasn't even moved in to No 10 yet, it's a bit early for women to be dumping love-children on the door step there.
    It is something that she has been raising for months, and apparently a particular issue in Birmingham.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/stories-48770759?__twitter_impression=true
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,052
    Miss Cyclefree, unfortunately, I'm too busy to write something for PB :(
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543
    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750
    Cyclefree said:

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    There’s an election in Greece on Sunday. https://unherd.com/2019/07/why-the-heat-is-on-for-greece/

    Surely one for a classics enthusiast......
    I loved doing threads on the Greek financial crisis, my puns were greatest puns in the history of humanity.

    Acropolis Now, a Thrace saving option, The Greeks have lost their marbles, Greek banks at the centaur of attention, etc
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,052
    Mr. Eagles, much as I like ribbing you, those are quite good puns.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750
    edited July 5
    TOPPING said:

    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.

    Actually there is something more pointless. Can you imagine being the guy who installs indicators on BMWs?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543

    TOPPING said:

    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.

    Actually there is something more pointless. Can you imagine being the guy who installs indicators on BMWs?
    Cadbury's teapot designer?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543

    Cyclefree said:

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    There’s an election in Greece on Sunday. https://unherd.com/2019/07/why-the-heat-is-on-for-greece/

    Surely one for a classics enthusiast......
    I loved doing threads on the Greek financial crisis, my puns were greatest puns in the history of humanity.

    Acropolis Now, a Thrace saving option, The Greeks have lost their marbles, Greek banks at the centaur of attention, etc
    The the Greek crisis? A pun? Ick!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 24,743
    FPT

    Today my wife and I made our decision on our votes and have returned them in the post this lunchtime.

    Hunt's ill advised comments on hunting have had a big consquence in our family, all of whom are implacably opposed to overturning the fox hunting ban, but do endorse drag hunting. It also raised the question in our mind about his competence when he fell in the trap when asked and confirming he would vote to repeal the act. It was an entirely avoidable position in so far as he could have simply said there are far more important issues and he would not re-open the matter

    We have not voted for him but had he not made those comments his 2 votes would be in the post now

    Turning to Boris and the alternatives, neither my wife or I could vote for Boris as we believe he is unreliable and overrated, though we do agree police numbers need increasing and we approve of his more liberal attitude to immigration

    We therefore marked our ballots 'Neither' and sent them in

    It is hugely disappointing to us that we could not vote for either candidate but we had no choice in the end

    Time will tell if Boris makes it but we did not want to have anything to do with voting him in.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 2,537
    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Bugger.

    This was going to be my Sunday thread.

    Backup AV thread on standby?
    There are no more back up AV threads left.
    Can’t you recycle an old one? That’s what Johnson does with his columns. And if it’s good enough for the future PM .......

    :)
    Recycling is one thing, plagiarism a la Ursula von der Leyden is another. Our ruler-to-be in Brussels if we stay.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,311
    Should the LibDems win Brecon & Radnorshire with more than 50% of the vote, one has to wonder how much shorter their odds will go in terms of winning the most seats at the next GE. In order to do do so, they would probably need to win around 200 seats in total, which would necessitate them winning a huge swathe of seats from the Tories in the South West and a similarly large number from Labour, mainly in the North of England. It still looks like a mighty big ask.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 22,887
    edited July 5

    TOPPING said:

    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.

    Actually there is something more pointless. Can you imagine being the guy who installs indicators on BMWs?
    Surely the most pointless activity is carefully working out constituency boundary changes.

    (And please don't mention BMWs, you might trigger me. I took mine in for a routine service a couple of weeks ago, and asked them to check the wheel balancing as the car was juddering at speed. It wasn't the wheel balancing, but something wrong with the engine. In fact, it turns out it needs a completely new engine, at 44,000 miles. To be fair, BMW are stumping up the £12K for the actual engine, but I'm still looking at a hefty labour charge.)
  • It's a fair bet but I'm not sure the odds are that generous.

    Richmond Park was overwhelmingly Remain, whereas Brecon was in line with the country as a whole.

    Whilst I suspect the Lib Dem ground game will yield differential turnout, they are generally in a stronger place than in 2016, and some will vote on a basis other than Brexit (e.g. casting a judgment on Davies' conduct leading to the by-election), the cap is probably lower than it was in Richmond Park.

    Brexit makes by-elections rather different from the free hit of the past, where Lib Dems in particular sometimes got very swings indeed. In those days, it didn't really matter if you agreed with the Lib Dems - people just wanted to send a message. Now, their well known position on Brexit inevitably puts off as many as it attracts.

    I am reminded of a Matthew Parris anecdote about the Crosby by-election, when he was canvassing for the Tories and the SDP candidate was Shirley Williams. At one door, a man forcefully said he was voting for Williams. Asked why, he said, "because I want to bring back hanging and the birch". When Parris patiently explained Shirley Williams was vehemently against those things, the man asked "so what's your candidate's position?" Parris explained the candidate was pretty tough on crime, but probably not to the extent of advocating "hangings and the birch", whereupon the chap said "well, I'm voting for Shirley then" and slammed the door. So that's the protest vote... but I just don't see many Brexiteers voting for Dodds on that basis in the current climate.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 8,548
    TOPPING said:

    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.

    The role of Police & Crime Commissioner is more pointless. That's why I spoil my ballot when they are up for election.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750

    TOPPING said:

    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.

    Actually there is something more pointless. Can you imagine being the guy who installs indicators on BMWs?
    Surely the most pointless activity is carefully working out constituency boundary changes.

    (And please don't mention BMWs, you might trigger me. A routine service a couple of weeks ago, and I asked them to check the wheel balancing as the car was juddering at speed. It wasn't the wheel balancing, but something wrong with the engine. In fact, it needs a completely new engine, at 44,000 miles. To be fair, BMW are stumping up the £12K for the actual engine, but I'm still looking at a hefty labour charge.)
    Ouch, this is why I love Mercedes, they'd provide the engine and the labour for free in that situation.
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 449
    Foxy said:

    Animal_pb said:

    Brom said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brom said:

    Just catching up with today's headlines and without wanting to big myself up I knew Jess Phillips was a moron months before it became cool to think that.

    What’s she done?
    Stuck her kid on the doorstep of number 10 to get some much needed publicity. Poor sod.
    Jumping the gun a bit, isn't she? Boris hasn't even moved in to No 10 yet, it's a bit early for women to be dumping love-children on the door step there.
    It is something that she has been raising for months, and apparently a particular issue in Birmingham.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/stories-48770759?__twitter_impression=true
    Your response is unintentionally hilarious.

    Although I am now plagued by the thought of hordes of blond Boris miniatures, speaking with Brummie accents.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 3,063

    TOPPING said:

    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.

    The role of Police & Crime Commissioner is more pointless. That's why I spoil my ballot when they are up for election.
    Personally I think spoiling ballot papers is legitimate. It shows that you can be bothered to vote but do not approve of the candidates. It is far better than just not voting as that looks like "can't be arsed". As a Tory member I have to make the tough decision as to whether to vote against the lying charlatan, by voting Hunt, or whether to put as large a cock and balls on the ballot paper as will fit to show I am unimpressed by either of them
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543
    edited July 5

    TOPPING said:

    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.

    The role of Police & Crime Commissioner is more pointless. That's why I spoil my ballot when they are up for election.
    That's extraordinary. It is elected representation for the police. It is one of the few recommendations that David Copperfield, otherwise hugely critical of the police force and its hierarchy, made for improving police services. And you decide to eschew it.

    That, as I said, is extraordinary, especially for someone who is seeking elected office themselves.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 3,063

    TOPPING said:

    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.

    The role of Police & Crime Commissioner is more pointless. That's why I spoil my ballot when they are up for election.
    Personally I think spoiling ballot papers is legitimate. It shows that you can be bothered to vote but do not approve of the candidates. It is far better than just not voting as that looks like "can't be arsed". As a Tory member I have to make the tough decision as to whether to vote against the lying charlatan, by voting Hunt, or whether to put as large a cock and balls on the ballot paper as will fit to show I am unimpressed by either of them
    sorry..should say unimpressed with both!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 8,548
    A new thread, and it has already descended into a German car willy-waving contest.

    I'm off to rehearse my campaign speech...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543

    FPT

    Today my wife and I made our decision on our votes and have returned them in the post this lunchtime.

    Hunt's ill advised comments on hunting have had a big consquence in our family, all of whom are implacably opposed to overturning the fox hunting ban, but do endorse drag hunting. It also raised the question in our mind about his competence when he fell in the trap when asked and confirming he would vote to repeal the act. It was an entirely avoidable position in so far as he could have simply said there are far more important issues and he would not re-open the matter

    We have not voted for him but had he not made those comments his 2 votes would be in the post now

    Turning to Boris and the alternatives, neither my wife or I could vote for Boris as we believe he is unreliable and overrated, though we do agree police numbers need increasing and we approve of his more liberal attitude to immigration

    We therefore marked our ballots 'Neither' and sent them in

    It is hugely disappointing to us that we could not vote for either candidate but we had no choice in the end

    Time will tell if Boris makes it but we did not want to have anything to do with voting him in.

    Spoiling your ballot paper(s) was a pointless and counterproductive gesture. Politics is all about finding the least worst solution and the view that most closely matches your own, with expected huge compromises.

    Spoiling your ballot papers is a cowardly cop out.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543

    TOPPING said:

    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.

    The role of Police & Crime Commissioner is more pointless. That's why I spoil my ballot when they are up for election.
    Personally I think spoiling ballot papers is legitimate. It shows that you can be bothered to vote but do not approve of the candidates. It is far better than just not voting as that looks like "can't be arsed". As a Tory member I have to make the tough decision as to whether to vote against the lying charlatan, by voting Hunt, or whether to put as large a cock and balls on the ballot paper as will fit to show I am unimpressed by either of them
    Nope. You have a choice and the choice will be made with or without you. It is up to people to make a decision.

    Or of course have no further comment on the decision that is eventually made whatsoever. Even on PB!
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 3,063

    FPT

    Today my wife and I made our decision on our votes and have returned them in the post this lunchtime.

    Hunt's ill advised comments on hunting have had a big consquence in our family, all of whom are implacably opposed to overturning the fox hunting ban, but do endorse drag hunting. It also raised the question in our mind about his competence when he fell in the trap when asked and confirming he would vote to repeal the act. It was an entirely avoidable position in so far as he could have simply said there are far more important issues and he would not re-open the matter

    We have not voted for him but had he not made those comments his 2 votes would be in the post now

    Turning to Boris and the alternatives, neither my wife or I could vote for Boris as we believe he is unreliable and overrated, though we do agree police numbers need increasing and we approve of his more liberal attitude to immigration

    We therefore marked our ballots 'Neither' and sent them in

    It is hugely disappointing to us that we could not vote for either candidate but we had no choice in the end

    Time will tell if Boris makes it but we did not want to have anything to do with voting him in.

    I think your endorsement of hunting people who like to dress in clothes of the opposite sex is highly objectionable
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 12,562
    edited July 5
    FPT


    >SandyRentool said:
    Off topic: CLP AGM tonight. Yours truly is standing for an executive position...<


    Good luck! I became CLP Chair last month (such power, and one so young). Gradually PB is taking over the Labour Party - like Momentum, but more secretive. :)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 24,743
    TOPPING said:

    FPT

    Today my wife and I made our decision on our votes and have returned them in the post this lunchtime.

    Hunt's ill advised comments on hunting have had a big consquence in our family, all of whom are implacably opposed to overturning the fox hunting ban, but do endorse drag hunting. It also raised the question in our mind about his competence when he fell in the trap when asked and confirming he would vote to repeal the act. It was an entirely avoidable position in so far as he could have simply said there are far more important issues and he would not re-open the matter

    We have not voted for him but had he not made those comments his 2 votes would be in the post now

    Turning to Boris and the alternatives, neither my wife or I could vote for Boris as we believe he is unreliable and overrated, though we do agree police numbers need increasing and we approve of his more liberal attitude to immigration

    We therefore marked our ballots 'Neither' and sent them in

    It is hugely disappointing to us that we could not vote for either candidate but we had no choice in the end

    Time will tell if Boris makes it but we did not want to have anything to do with voting him in.

    Spoiling your ballot paper(s) was a pointless and counterproductive gesture. Politics is all about finding the least worst solution and the view that most closely matches your own, with expected huge compromises.

    Spoiling your ballot papers is a cowardly cop out.
    When neither option is acceptable it is a fair thing to do
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 12,562
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.

    The role of Police & Crime Commissioner is more pointless. That's why I spoil my ballot when they are up for election.
    Personally I think spoiling ballot papers is legitimate. It shows that you can be bothered to vote but do not approve of the candidates. It is far better than just not voting as that looks like "can't be arsed". As a Tory member I have to make the tough decision as to whether to vote against the lying charlatan, by voting Hunt, or whether to put as large a cock and balls on the ballot paper as will fit to show I am unimpressed by either of them
    Nope. You have a choice and the choice will be made with or without you. It is up to people to make a decision.

    Or of course have no further comment on the decision that is eventually made whatsoever. Even on PB!
    I think spoiling papers is also a legitimate signal. Some eyebrows were raised at the spoiled papers in the first round of the MPs' ballot, since they raised the question whether the new leader could count on general support. They were seen as a warning shot, and no doubt intended to be.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 24,743

    FPT

    Today my wife and I made our decision on our votes and have returned them in the post this lunchtime.

    Hunt's ill advised comments on hunting have had a big consquence in our family, all of whom are implacably opposed to overturning the fox hunting ban, but do endorse drag hunting. It also raised the question in our mind about his competence when he fell in the trap when asked and confirming he would vote to repeal the act. It was an entirely avoidable position in so far as he could have simply said there are far more important issues and he would not re-open the matter

    We have not voted for him but had he not made those comments his 2 votes would be in the post now

    Turning to Boris and the alternatives, neither my wife or I could vote for Boris as we believe he is unreliable and overrated, though we do agree police numbers need increasing and we approve of his more liberal attitude to immigration

    We therefore marked our ballots 'Neither' and sent them in

    It is hugely disappointing to us that we could not vote for either candidate but we had no choice in the end

    Time will tell if Boris makes it but we did not want to have anything to do with voting him in.

    I think your endorsement of hunting people who like to dress in clothes of the opposite sex is highly objectionable
    What are you talking about
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 27,165
    Are Labour intending to stand in Brecon & Radnor?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,270
    Some staggering rallies in the Djokovic - Hurkacz game.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.

    The role of Police & Crime Commissioner is more pointless. That's why I spoil my ballot when they are up for election.
    Personally I think spoiling ballot papers is legitimate. It shows that you can be bothered to vote but do not approve of the candidates. It is far better than just not voting as that looks like "can't be arsed". As a Tory member I have to make the tough decision as to whether to vote against the lying charlatan, by voting Hunt, or whether to put as large a cock and balls on the ballot paper as will fit to show I am unimpressed by either of them
    Nope. You have a choice and the choice will be made with or without you. It is up to people to make a decision.

    Or of course have no further comment on the decision that is eventually made whatsoever. Even on PB!
    I think spoiling papers is also a legitimate signal. Some eyebrows were raised at the spoiled papers in the first round of the MPs' ballot, since they raised the question whether the new leader could count on general support. They were seen as a warning shot, and no doubt intended to be.
    Someone will be elected. Suppose you didn't agree with the Labour Party candidate in your consituency (whether it is a safe seat or not). If you don't vote then you have no say whatsoever over the result when your great gift is to be able to have a say. To give that up because you hope it will be interpreted in one way or another, I believe is an abnegation of your democratic right and duty.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 3,063

    FPT

    Today my wife and I made our decision on our votes and have returned them in the post this lunchtime.

    Hunt's ill advised comments on hunting have had a big consquence in our family, all of whom are implacably opposed to overturning the fox hunting ban, but do endorse drag hunting. It also raised the question in our mind about his competence when he fell in the trap when asked and confirming he would vote to repeal the act. It was an entirely avoidable position in so far as he could have simply said there are far more important issues and he would not re-open the matter

    We have not voted for him but had he not made those comments his 2 votes would be in the post now

    Turning to Boris and the alternatives, neither my wife or I could vote for Boris as we believe he is unreliable and overrated, though we do agree police numbers need increasing and we approve of his more liberal attitude to immigration

    We therefore marked our ballots 'Neither' and sent them in

    It is hugely disappointing to us that we could not vote for either candidate but we had no choice in the end

    Time will tell if Boris makes it but we did not want to have anything to do with voting him in.

    I think your endorsement of hunting people who like to dress in clothes of the opposite sex is highly objectionable
    PS. My experience of the Conservative party is that a very sizeable number of members opposed the ban, and most thought it a waste of parliamentary time. There are a very very small number of members who thought it a good thing. One of those was also an MP, now an MEP. She recently made an absurd maiden speech in the European Parliament on behalf of the Faragist Party, so you may recall the silly old bat. In summary, I doubt it will have harmed Hunt's prospects with the selectorate, even though it changed your voting intention.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,270

    FPT


    >SandyRentool said:
    Off topic: CLP AGM tonight. Yours truly is standing for an executive position...<


    Good luck! I became CLP Chair last month (such power, and one so young). Gradually PB is taking over the Labour Party - like Momentum, but more secretive. :)

    Shows how hollowed out Labour has become....
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 1,308
    edited July 5

    TOPPING said:

    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.

    The role of Police & Crime Commissioner is more pointless. That's why I spoil my ballot when they are up for election.
    It is the two round SV I object to, having to tactically guess who to back to nobble the Brexit/UKIP etc candidate.

    I'm thinking of giving a full 1,2,3,4 listing next time, in such a way that my tactical votes still count, but my point is made clear that I'm not impressed by this system, for the want of a little bit more counting.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 102

    FPT


    >SandyRentool said:
    Off topic: CLP AGM tonight. Yours truly is standing for an executive position...<


    Good luck! I became CLP Chair last month (such power, and one so young). Gradually PB is taking over the Labour Party - like Momentum, but more secretive. :)

    Shows how hollowed out Labour has become....
    And so secretive it’s only published on the nations best read political blog.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 27,165

    Some staggering rallies in the Djokovic - Hurkacz game.

    Rallies are interesting but so is serve and volley.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 102

    TOPPING said:

    FPT

    Today my wife and I made our decision on our votes and have returned them in the post this lunchtime.

    Hunt's ill advised comments on hunting have had a big consquence in our family, all of whom are implacably opposed to overturning the fox hunting ban, but do endorse drag hunting. It also raised the question in our mind about his competence when he fell in the trap when asked and confirming he would vote to repeal the act. It was an entirely avoidable position in so far as he could have simply said there are far more important issues and he would not re-open the matter

    We have not voted for him but had he not made those comments his 2 votes would be in the post now

    Turning to Boris and the alternatives, neither my wife or I could vote for Boris as we believe he is unreliable and overrated, though we do agree police numbers need increasing and we approve of his more liberal attitude to immigration

    We therefore marked our ballots 'Neither' and sent them in

    It is hugely disappointing to us that we could not vote for either candidate but we had no choice in the end

    Time will tell if Boris makes it but we did not want to have anything to do with voting him in.

    Spoiling your ballot paper(s) was a pointless and counterproductive gesture. Politics is all about finding the least worst solution and the view that most closely matches your own, with expected huge compromises.

    Spoiling your ballot papers is a cowardly cop out.
    When neither option is acceptable it is a fair thing to do
    Ignore them. I support what you have done. It’s honest. We can’t be anything more in this life than honest.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 25,474
    You’re not obliged to choose between amputating your left hand or your right foot. Abstention or spoiling your ballot paper are both entirely legitimate democratic choices.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,270
    AndyJS said:

    Some staggering rallies in the Djokovic - Hurkacz game.

    Rallies are interesting but so is serve and volley.
    Well, we've at least two more sets of it!
  • AndyJS said:

    Are Labour intending to stand in Brecon & Radnor?

    Presumably. The Labour Party nationally are very robust on not standing aside. I understand the local Labour Party wanted to do so in Richmond Park, but were threatened with mass expulsion (and a candidate being imposed).
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 1,704
    edited July 5
    Candidates now published on the Powys Council website:
    • Chris Davies, Con
    • Tomos Glyndwr Davies, Lab
    • Jane Dodds, Lib Dems
    • Des Parkinson, Brexit Party
    • Liz Phillips, UKIP Make Brexit Happen
    • Lady Lily the Pink, Monster Raving Loony
    I will refrain from commenting that I've always thought there's a bit of the Parkinsons about the Brexit Party.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 15,190
    During his Patriotic July 4th speech Trump apparently referred to the fact that the Revolutionary Army ‘took over airports’ from the British. This has excited the Twitteracy. See the Guardian’s ‘Battle of the Baggage Claim’ feature
  • Pro_Rata said:

    TOPPING said:

    1. Happy Anniversary to Mike and Jacky.
    2. There is nothing more pointless than spoiling a ballot paper.

    The role of Police & Crime Commissioner is more pointless. That's why I spoil my ballot when they are up for election.
    It is the two round SV I object to, having to tactically guess who to back to nobble the Brexit/UKIP etc candidate.

    I'm thinking of giving a full 1,2,3,4 listing next time, in such a way that my tactical votes still count, but my point is made clear that I'm not impressed by this system, for the want of a little bit more counting.
    I don't think the ballot papers are set up to allow that - you get two columns, the first to put a cross against your first choice, the second to put a cross against your second. If you were to write 1,2,3,4, I think that'd count as spoiled.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 22,887
    On topic: I think 50% might just be attainable but it is a big ask. It requires either hoovering up the entire 2017 vote share from Labour and Plaid, or to compensate for not being to reduce the Labour vote to zero by persuading 2017 Conservative voters to vote LibDem or at least to abstain. (The combined Conservative + UKIP vote in 2017 was 50%). In practice, Labour's vote will collapse but it won't vaporise completely, and some of it may go to the Brexit Party rather than the LibDems. I'd want more than 4/1 on this.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 15,190
    edited July 5

    Candidates now published on the Powys Council website:

    • Chris Davies, Con
    • Tomos Glyndwr Davies, Lab
    • Jane Dodds, Lib Dems
    • Des Parkinson, Brexit Party
    • Liz Phillips, UKIP Make Brexit Happen
    • Lady Lily the Pink, Monster Raving Loony
    I will refrain from commenting that I've always thought there's a bit of the Parkinsons about the Brexit Party.
    Looks like the Labour candidate should be standing for Plaid Cymru
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 25,474

    On topic: I think 50% might just be attainable but it is a big ask. It requires either hoovering up the entire 2017 vote share from Labour and Plaid, or to compensate for not being to reduce the Labour vote to zero by persuading 2017 Conservative voters to vote LibDem or at least to abstain. (The combined Conservative + UKIP vote in 2017 was 50%). In practice, Labour's vote will collapse but it won't vaporise completely, and some of it may go to the Brexit Party rather than the LibDems. I'd want more than 4/1 on this.

    Surely some of the Conservative vote is going to abstain? The candidate is not exactly an enticing prospect this time.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 22,887
    edited July 5

    On topic: I think 50% might just be attainable but it is a big ask. It requires either hoovering up the entire 2017 vote share from Labour and Plaid, or to compensate for not being to reduce the Labour vote to zero by persuading 2017 Conservative voters to vote LibDem or at least to abstain. (The combined Conservative + UKIP vote in 2017 was 50%). In practice, Labour's vote will collapse but it won't vaporise completely, and some of it may go to the Brexit Party rather than the LibDems. I'd want more than 4/1 on this.

    Surely some of the Conservative vote is going to abstain? The candidate is not exactly an enticing prospect this time.
    Yes they will, but will it be enough? Chris Davies seems quite popular locally, and they have the Brexit Party as an alternative means of expressing discontent.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 102

    You’re not obliged to choose between amputating your left hand or your right foot. Abstention or spoiling your ballot paper are both entirely legitimate democratic choices.

    Countries that make it compulsory to vote are unDemocratic backwaters.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 102

    FPT

    Today my wife and I made our decision on our votes and have returned them in the post this lunchtime.

    Hunt's ill advised comments on hunting have had a big consquence in our family, all of whom are implacably opposed to overturning the fox hunting ban, but do endorse drag hunting. It also raised the question in our mind about his competence when he fell in the trap when asked and confirming he would vote to repeal the act. It was an entirely avoidable position in so far as he could have simply said there are far more important issues and he would not re-open the matter

    We have not voted for him but had he not made those comments his 2 votes would be in the post now

    Turning to Boris and the alternatives, neither my wife or I could vote for Boris as we believe he is unreliable and overrated, though we do agree police numbers need increasing and we approve of his more liberal attitude to immigration

    We therefore marked our ballots 'Neither' and sent them in

    It is hugely disappointing to us that we could not vote for either candidate but we had no choice in the end

    Time will tell if Boris makes it but we did not want to have anything to do with voting him in.

    I think your endorsement of hunting people who like to dress in clothes of the opposite sex is highly objectionable
    What are you talking about
    I remarked on here last Sunday it was clear Hunt camp had taken it to 60/40 loss and could take it no further other than making the noises that would take them to a worse defeat. Two horse races so often go this way, gambling worse result as only chance to bridge gap. I did the same thing in sports day 200m final in 1982.

    After all this campaigning we have little idea what the true hunt position is on very much. He may have been pro hound anti fox to curry favour with niche electorate, but he didn’t shy away from being anti abortion.

    When big g considered Boris over hunts hunting support people rightly said, here’s clear winner, tribes now rallying round him. Because truth is For all theology and ethics a case is not built upon one single verse or argument. A year ago Big G would never have contemplated voting for Boris. This Greasypole hungry charlatan cuddling up to the populist right is just not you. And to your credit, your honesty, that’s how it turned out.

    If Pb was a bus, we were all on a bus, I’d slap the back of your chair right now.
  • You’re not obliged to choose between amputating your left hand or your right foot. Abstention or spoiling your ballot paper are both entirely legitimate democratic choices.

    Not a perfect comparison, since the hospital will presumably accept it if you say "neither, thanks" whereas one of the candidates WILL win regardless of how many spoiled ballot papers there are.

    That said, I agree it isn't a total waste of time. If none of the candidates is adequate, at least by spoiling you ballot your abstention you are being clear you are dissatisfied. Quite a few non-voters aren't actively unhappy with the candidates - many haven't formed a preference but are basically fine with others making the decision for them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 12,766
    Zephyr said:

    TOPPING said:

    FPT

    Today my wife and I made our decision on our votes and have returned them in the post this lunchtime.

    Hunt's ill advised comments on hunting have had a big consquence in our family, all of whom are implacably opposed to overturning the fox hunting ban, but do endorse drag hunting. It also raised the question in our mind about his competence when he fell in the trap when asked and confirming he would vote to repeal the act. It was an entirely avoidable position in so far as he could have simply said there are far more important issues and he would not re-open the matter

    We have not voted for him but had he not made those comments his 2 votes would be in the post now

    Turning to Boris and the alternatives, neither my wife or I could vote for Boris as we believe he is unreliable and overrated, though we do agree police numbers need increasing and we approve of his more liberal attitude to immigration

    We therefore marked our ballots 'Neither' and sent them in

    It is hugely disappointing to us that we could not vote for either candidate but we had no choice in the end

    Time will tell if Boris makes it but we did not want to have anything to do with voting him in.

    Spoiling your ballot paper(s) was a pointless and counterproductive gesture. Politics is all about finding the least worst solution and the view that most closely matches your own, with expected huge compromises.

    Spoiling your ballot papers is a cowardly cop out.
    When neither option is acceptable it is a fair thing to do
    Ignore them. I support what you have done. It’s honest. We can’t be anything more in this life than honest.
    Agreed. If neither deserve your vote, failing to abstain would be considerably worse than useless.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 102
    AndyJS said:

    Some staggering rallies in the Djokovic - Hurkacz game.

    Rallies are interesting but so is serve and volley.
    The grass isn’t the same at Wimbledon these days, making it less Wimbledon more like other tournament stuff. I don’t like that. It means not just the serve volley skills aren’t being developed as they should be, but the unpredictable world rating busting nature of Wimbledon is becoming lost.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 14,956
    So Yaxley Lennon has a bus? I wonder what lie he has written on the side of it.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 5,325

    On topic: I think 50% might just be attainable but it is a big ask. It requires either hoovering up the entire 2017 vote share from Labour and Plaid, or to compensate for not being to reduce the Labour vote to zero by persuading 2017 Conservative voters to vote LibDem or at least to abstain. (The combined Conservative + UKIP vote in 2017 was 50%). In practice, Labour's vote will collapse but it won't vaporise completely, and some of it may go to the Brexit Party rather than the LibDems. I'd want more than 4/1 on this.

    The LDs got 46% in 2010 when Labour got 10% and that's the largest vote for the former and smallest for the latter in recent times.

    The Conservatives were just under 28% in the 1985 by-election.

    We have to start somewhere so the Con-Lab vote share in B&R was just under 2/3 in 2017. On the assumption they've lost just under half of that let's allocate 40% to Con and Lab so we can say Con 30% and Lab 10%. The national Con-LD swing is about 15% so that would put the LDs at about 45% with TBP filling in the rest and maybe nicking another five points off the Conservatives so I come out at LD 45%, CON 25%, TBP 20% and Lab 10% so on a turnout of around 50%, I make it about a 5,000 LD majority.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 22,887
    stodge said:

    The LDs got 46% in 2010 when Labour got 10% and that's the largest vote for the former and smallest for the latter in recent times.

    The Conservatives were just under 28% in the 1985 by-election.

    We have to start somewhere so the Con-Lab vote share in B&R was just under 2/3 in 2017. On the assumption they've lost just under half of that let's allocate 40% to Con and Lab so we can say Con 30% and Lab 10%. The national Con-LD swing is about 15% so that would put the LDs at about 45% with TBP filling in the rest and maybe nicking another five points off the Conservatives so I come out at LD 45%, CON 25%, TBP 20% and Lab 10% so on a turnout of around 50%, I make it about a 5,000 LD majority.

    I think that's a reasonable guesstimate. I'd probably put the Brexit Party higher and the Tories lower.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 5,204

    TOPPING said:

    FPT

    Today my wife and I made our decision on our votes and have returned them in the post this lunchtime.

    Hunt's ill advised comments on hunting have had a big consquence in our family, all of whom are implacably opposed to overturning the fox hunting ban, but do endorse drag hunting. It also raised the question in our mind about his competence when he fell in the trap when asked and confirming he would vote to repeal the act. It was an entirely avoidable position in so far as he could have simply said there are far more important issues and he would not re-open the matter

    We have not voted for him but had he not made those comments his 2 votes would be in the post now

    Turning to Boris and the alternatives, neither my wife or I could vote for Boris as we believe he is unreliable and overrated, though we do agree police numbers need increasing and we approve of his more liberal attitude to immigration

    We therefore marked our ballots 'Neither' and sent them in

    It is hugely disappointing to us that we could not vote for either candidate but we had no choice in the end

    Time will tell if Boris makes it but we did not want to have anything to do with voting him in.

    Spoiling your ballot paper(s) was a pointless and counterproductive gesture. Politics is all about finding the least worst solution and the view that most closely matches your own, with expected huge compromises.

    Spoiling your ballot papers is a cowardly cop out.
    When neither option is acceptable it is a fair thing to do
    Agreed. And it's fairly obvious that if a large number of Tory members spoiled their ballots, that would be a talking point and could potentially make whoever wins vulnerable to a future challenge. If, hypothetically, Boris were to win with less than 50% of the vote, he would be very vulnerable.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750

    So Yaxley Lennon has a bus? I wonder what lie he has written on the side of it.

    Enock (sic) was right?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543

    You’re not obliged to choose between amputating your left hand or your right foot. Abstention or spoiling your ballot paper are both entirely legitimate democratic choices.

    You are thinking like a no deal leaver. If you (or in this case Big G) abstain something happens, in this case a new leader.

    Abstaining doesn't mean neither of them are elected and we stay as we are.

    Likewise if we have a no deal Brexit we don't just go back to the status quo ante. Something changes.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 19,234

    stodge said:

    The LDs got 46% in 2010 when Labour got 10% and that's the largest vote for the former and smallest for the latter in recent times.

    The Conservatives were just under 28% in the 1985 by-election.

    We have to start somewhere so the Con-Lab vote share in B&R was just under 2/3 in 2017. On the assumption they've lost just under half of that let's allocate 40% to Con and Lab so we can say Con 30% and Lab 10%. The national Con-LD swing is about 15% so that would put the LDs at about 45% with TBP filling in the rest and maybe nicking another five points off the Conservatives so I come out at LD 45%, CON 25%, TBP 20% and Lab 10% so on a turnout of around 50%, I make it about a 5,000 LD majority.

    I think that's a reasonable guesstimate. I'd probably put the Brexit Party higher and the Tories lower.
    Big decision for (presumably) Boris - pitch up there before polling day and hope to get a bounce at least sufficient to top the BXP, but risk a humiliation. Or stay in hiding.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 19,234
    Zephyr said:

    TOPPING said:

    FPT

    Today my wife and I made our decision on our votes and have returned them in the post this lunchtime.

    Hunt's ill advised comments on hunting have had a big consquence in our family, all of whom are implacably opposed to overturning the fox hunting ban, but do endorse drag hunting. It also raised the question in our mind about his competence when he fell in the trap when asked and confirming he would vote to repeal the act. It was an entirely avoidable position in so far as he could have simply said there are far more important issues and he would not re-open the matter

    We have not voted for him but had he not made those comments his 2 votes would be in the post now

    Turning to Boris and the alternatives, neither my wife or I could vote for Boris as we believe he is unreliable and overrated, though we do agree police numbers need increasing and we approve of his more liberal attitude to immigration

    We therefore marked our ballots 'Neither' and sent them in

    It is hugely disappointing to us that we could not vote for either candidate but we had no choice in the end

    Time will tell if Boris makes it but we did not want to have anything to do with voting him in.

    Spoiling your ballot paper(s) was a pointless and counterproductive gesture. Politics is all about finding the least worst solution and the view that most closely matches your own, with expected huge compromises.

    Spoiling your ballot papers is a cowardly cop out.
    When neither option is acceptable it is a fair thing to do
    Ignore them. I support what you have done. It’s honest. We can’t be anything more in this life than honest.
    Certainly more honest than voting for Boris having spent months telling us why he is beyond the pale.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 25,474
    TOPPING said:

    You’re not obliged to choose between amputating your left hand or your right foot. Abstention or spoiling your ballot paper are both entirely legitimate democratic choices.

    You are thinking like a no deal leaver. If you (or in this case Big G) abstain something happens, in this case a new leader.

    Abstaining doesn't mean neither of them are elected and we stay as we are.

    Likewise if we have a no deal Brexit we don't just go back to the status quo ante. Something changes.
    If you don’t like either choice you don’t have to endorse either.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,385

    stodge said:

    The LDs got 46% in 2010 when Labour got 10% and that's the largest vote for the former and smallest for the latter in recent times.

    The Conservatives were just under 28% in the 1985 by-election.

    We have to start somewhere so the Con-Lab vote share in B&R was just under 2/3 in 2017. On the assumption they've lost just under half of that let's allocate 40% to Con and Lab so we can say Con 30% and Lab 10%. The national Con-LD swing is about 15% so that would put the LDs at about 45% with TBP filling in the rest and maybe nicking another five points off the Conservatives so I come out at LD 45%, CON 25%, TBP 20% and Lab 10% so on a turnout of around 50%, I make it about a 5,000 LD majority.

    I think that's a reasonable guesstimate. I'd probably put the Brexit Party higher and the Tories lower.
    Would be quite a humiliation for the Tories if they came third in their own defence. I guess they'd blame it on the candidate, but he's still representing them.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750
    @Cyclefree

    Remember the abuse we got from the Tommy defenders, those poor thickos fell for Tommy's bullshit.


  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543

    TOPPING said:

    You’re not obliged to choose between amputating your left hand or your right foot. Abstention or spoiling your ballot paper are both entirely legitimate democratic choices.

    You are thinking like a no deal leaver. If you (or in this case Big G) abstain something happens, in this case a new leader.

    Abstaining doesn't mean neither of them are elected and we stay as we are.

    Likewise if we have a no deal Brexit we don't just go back to the status quo ante. Something changes.
    If you don’t like either choice you don’t have to endorse either.
    One will get in. That's the reality. You can't hide under the duvet. You have (he has) a vote. We are after the best result possible not the best possible result. As with all politics.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750
    Asking for a friend who is writing a thread for a politics blog is it

    a) nobhead

    b) nob head

    c) knobhead

    or

    d) knob head
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543

    Asking for a friend who is writing a thread for a politics blog is it

    a) nobhead

    b) nob head

    c) knobhead

    or

    d) knob head

    B-o-r-I-s
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,883
    Will Lennon go back inside having served 3 months of his 13 month sentence. I know you have it.then knock off a good chunk these days...
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,037

    Asking for a friend who is writing a thread for a politics blog is it

    a) nobhead

    b) nob head

    c) knobhead

    or

    d) knob head

    Sajid Javid?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 27,165
    edited July 5
    Well-played Pakistan.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 8,786
    Brom said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Brom said:

    Just catching up with today's headlines and without wanting to big myself up I knew Jess Phillips was a moron months before it became cool to think that.

    What’s she done?
    Stuck her kid on the doorstep of number 10 to get some much needed publicity. Poor sod.
    To be fair to Jess Phillips, she is making a serious point that directly affects her son and it was a small group, not just him.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 600
    Zephyr said:

    You’re not obliged to choose between amputating your left hand or your right foot. Abstention or spoiling your ballot paper are both entirely legitimate democratic choices.

    Countries that make it compulsory to vote are unDemocratic backwaters.
    Countries that make it compulsory to vote do allow you to abstain, but you activel have to abstain by turning up and returning an empty/spoilt ballot paper. You could call Australia a backwater, but it is not undemocratic.
This discussion has been closed.