Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The LDs and Greens can breathe a sigh of relief – LAB’s Brexit

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited July 8 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The LDs and Greens can breathe a sigh of relief – LAB’s Brexit fudge to continue

? In event of general election, Labour’s manifesto position would be:– negotiate a deal with EU to respect Brexit vote– any final Labour deal then put back to the people – ballot paper would have Labour deal vs RemainCRUCIAL: Labour position would depend on deal negotiated.

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 14,972
    Donald!!!!!!!! :open_mouth:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 44,977
    They cannot sigh in relief yet. Labours glacial movement and tortured positioning hasn't stopped the rot yet but with the brand so strong the lds and greens will always worry eventually labour will break through again.

    After all, it was only very recently labour list the support . Have they finally taken their voters for granted too much?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750
    edited July 8
    Found an a picture that will come handy for a lot of comments and maybe used in future threads.


  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 34,292
    TGOHF said:
    1) Why is Trump drawing attention to a story that has not been getting much coverage in the US? It will now! Is it a “dead cat” to distract from something else, or just a a frustrated outburst of the man child?

    2) Trump does not get to choose HM Ambassador.
  • eekeek Posts: 4,192
    edited July 8

    Found an a picture that will come handy for a lot of comments and maybe used in future threads.


    I've always pictured those sort of polls and posters as image
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 5,204
    Not a massive fan of a second referendum, but apparently that's what Labour's policy is now.
    That's the bottom line.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750

    TGOHF said:
    1) Why is Trump drawing attention to a story that has not been getting much coverage in the US? It will now! Is it a “dead cat” to distract from something else, or just a a frustrated outburst of the man child?

    2) Trump does not get to choose HM Ambassador.
    I'm seeing a strong correlation between those who wanted to take back control in 2016 and those in 2019 would like the US President to choose our Ambassador to Les États-Unis.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 19,063
    edited July 8

    TGOHF said:
    1) Why is Trump drawing attention to a story that has not been getting much coverage in the US? It will now! Is it a “dead cat” to distract from something else, or just a a frustrated outburst of the man child?

    2) Trump does not get to choose HM Ambassador.
    I'm more intrigued by the suggestion that he doesn't know the Ambassador, but will 'no longer deal with him.'

    If he doesn't know him, surely he's not dealt with him up to now? Making it beyond irrelevant who the ambassador is!
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 1,499
    Well after ch4 we have panorama do I go to bed suicidal or looking towards the sunlit uplands?
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 1,686
    I doubt the Tories will hold on to many of the Scottish seats they won in 2017 at a snap GE. I just dont see a majority on the cards let alone 40 plus!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 34,292


    Boris hurts the BXP vote, the others, not so much.
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,738
    edited July 8
    GIN1138 said:

    Donald!!!!!!!! :open_mouth:



    Just to remind us with whom we're dealing (both).
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 1,686

    TGOHF said:
    1) Why is Trump drawing attention to a story that has not been getting much coverage in the US? It will now! Is it a “dead cat” to distract from something else, or just a a frustrated outburst of the man child?

    2) Trump does not get to choose HM Ambassador.
    The. UK Ambassador job has been a contentious issue before either just before he was sworn in or just after. Seems a bit odd he dedicates so much energy on a job with no power or elective influence.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 19,063
    Toms said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Donald!!!!!!!! :open_mouth:

    That's an extremely annoying video.

    I now have to either to defend Trump or agree with Johnson.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    TGOHF said:
    Surely he really is on the money here? FPT: There are elements there that most people here would agree with surely?

    "I have been very critical about the way the UK and Prime Minister Theresa May handled Brexit" - I think this applies to [most people here].
    "What a mess she and her representatives have created" - Ditto
    "I told her how it should be done, but she decided to go another way" - We haven't told her but we have each said our own ways on how it should be done.
    "I do not know the Ambassador" - Me neither, do you?
    Snipping bit about US
    "It was the Queen who I was most impressed with!" - Would you be more impressed with the Queen or Theresa May?
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 265

    TGOHF said:
    1) Why is Trump drawing attention to a story that has not been getting much coverage in the US? It will now! Is it a “dead cat” to distract from something else, or just a a frustrated outburst of the man child?

    2) Trump does not get to choose HM Ambassador.
    1)This perhaps?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48912797

    2) He can kick him out if he feels that strongly about it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 8,548



    Boris hurts the BXP vote, the others, not so much.

    Well the numbers are just silly. Surely the generic question should get a result similar to the Bozo hypothetical since he is odds on for the job?

    Does not compute.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    What happens if there is an election called?

    Surely this act can't prevent a dissolution of Parliament due to a General Election? And it can't be recalled during an Election can it?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 4,065
    edited July 8
    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028



    Boris hurts the BXP vote, the others, not so much.

    Well the numbers are just silly. Surely the generic question should get a result similar to the Bozo hypothetical since he is odds on for the job?

    Does not compute.
    I think most voters who are not politics geeks still think of May as PM (which she is) and are not sure who the next PM will be.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 12,766
    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Donald!!!!!!!! :open_mouth:

    That's an extremely annoying video.

    I now have to either to defend Trump or agree with Johnson.
    Or you could take the position that the presidency is now so debased an office that Trump is entirely fit for it ?

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 8,548



    Boris hurts the BXP vote, the others, not so much.

    Well the numbers are just silly. Surely the generic question should get a result similar to the Bozo hypothetical since he is odds on for the job?

    Does not compute.
    I think most voters who are not politics geeks still think of May as PM (which she is) and are not sure who the next PM will be.
    Well yes, I guess people could be answering on the basis that Tezzie carries on. That would explain the lack of a post-May bounce yet.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    dodrade said:

    TGOHF said:
    1) Why is Trump drawing attention to a story that has not been getting much coverage in the US? It will now! Is it a “dead cat” to distract from something else, or just a a frustrated outburst of the man child?

    2) Trump does not get to choose HM Ambassador.
    1)This perhaps?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48912797

    2) He can kick him out if he feels that strongly about it.
    Every time I see that picture I keep thinking it is Scott Bakula. A striking resemblence IMO.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 14,972
    edited July 8
    I thought Dr Fox (no not our Dr Fox In Sox In Ox - the disgraced security risk one) looked panic stricken on the news earlier!

    Guess we know why now! :D
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,385

    Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.

    Standstill is another word for Backstop surely :)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    Foxy said:

    Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.

    Standstill is another word for Backstop surely :)
    Another word for transition surely?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 12,766
    dodrade said:

    TGOHF said:
    1) Why is Trump drawing attention to a story that has not been getting much coverage in the US? It will now! Is it a “dead cat” to distract from something else, or just a a frustrated outburst of the man child?

    2) Trump does not get to choose HM Ambassador.
    1)This perhaps?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48912797

    ....
    “...I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side....”

    I wonder who said that ?



  • justin124justin124 Posts: 7,427



    Boris hurts the BXP vote, the others, not so much.

    Some indication from the headline figures of the two big parties recovering lost support with Brexit Party dipping below 20% and the LibDems on 16%
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 29,186

    Foxy said:

    Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.

    Standstill is another word for Backstop surely :)
    Another word for transition surely?
    Revoke and reconsider: a standstill transition for as long as we like.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 25,474
    This is the Steve Baker who wanted the Queen to prorogue Parliament in April?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 20,711

    TGOHF said:
    1) Why is Trump drawing attention to a story that has not been getting much coverage in the US? It will now! Is it a “dead cat” to distract from something else, or just a a frustrated outburst of the man child?

    2) Trump does not get to choose HM Ambassador.
    I'm seeing a strong correlation between those who wanted to take back control in 2016 and those in 2019 would like the US President to choose our Ambassador to Les États-Unis.
    Talk about missing the point again TSE - almost willful ignorance. Get well soon.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,385

    Foxy said:

    Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.

    Standstill is another word for Backstop surely :)
    Another word for transition surely?
    Same thing...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 885

    What happens if there is an election called?

    Surely this act can't prevent a dissolution of Parliament due to a General Election? And it can't be recalled during an Election can it?
    As MPs would have to vote for a GE presumably that is fine and would take precedence if they choose to do so? Or the MPs could try and get something to prevent no deal happening during that GE period before agreeing to one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 19,063
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Donald!!!!!!!! :open_mouth:

    That's an extremely annoying video.

    I now have to either to defend Trump or agree with Johnson.
    Or you could take the position that the presidency is now so debased an office that Trump is entirely fit for it ?

    Sheer genius. I'll take it.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 25,474
    Donald Trump is within his rights to treat the UK ambassador as persona non grata in the circumstances. It’s a move lacking class but he’s hardly long on class to start off with.
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 775



    Boris hurts the BXP vote, the others, not so much.

    Well the numbers are just silly. Surely the generic question should get a result similar to the Bozo hypothetical since he is odds on for the job?

    Does not compute.
    My biggest takeaway from that poll is - some weeks after I’d expected to see them - faint signs of a return to business as usual for the ‘big’ two.

    To have them both in the upper 20s will be a relief (for them) after a couple of months of a four-way scrap in the lower 20s.

    Con/Boris is clearly off the back of perceived clarity/movement on Brexit. God knows what’s helping Corbyn (unless the fieldwork was done in the 30 mins between clarity from the unions and fudge from Labour in response!)

    It’ll probably affix Corbyn’s bum to the fence a bit harder if there’s still some finessing of Lab’s position to be done on Wed.

    On Trump: bleurgh. I take Philip’s point that at one level there’s not much to disagree with. But it shows how little latitude he’s prepared to give any govt, even ones with gold coaches and corgis, when it comes to business. None of which - as we know from the ambassador - will come as a surprise to HMG. But if I were Johnson, I’d think twice about getting too close once I had the keys to Number 10.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 19,063
    Nigelb said:

    dodrade said:

    TGOHF said:
    1) Why is Trump drawing attention to a story that has not been getting much coverage in the US? It will now! Is it a “dead cat” to distract from something else, or just a a frustrated outburst of the man child?

    2) Trump does not get to choose HM Ambassador.
    1)This perhaps?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48912797

    ....
    “...I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side....”

    I wonder who said that ?
    Under other circumstances it would be amusing that he keeps his money in the Virgin Islands.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.

    Standstill is another word for Backstop surely :)
    Another word for transition surely?
    Same thing...
    No, a transition is the sensible part of May's deal.

    The backstop is what happens after transition. A standstill without a backstop just kicks the no deal can from now to the end of the transition, while giving time to negotiate a solution.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 8,548
    I may have missed it, but I don't think the White House has disputed the Ambassador's assessment.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 114

    Donald Trump is within his rights to treat the UK ambassador as persona non grata in the circumstances. It’s a move lacking class but he’s hardly long on class to start off with.

    But, but, but, "The Special Relationship"!!!!! :lol:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 19,063

    I may have missed it, but I don't think the White House has disputed the Ambassador's assessment.

    They're still trying to work out what some of the longer words mean.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 3,383
    Labour's position is precisely as I have long predicted.

    And it's perfect.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 29,186

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.

    Standstill is another word for Backstop surely :)
    Another word for transition surely?
    Same thing...
    No, a transition is the sensible part of May's deal.

    The backstop is what happens after transition. A standstill without a backstop just kicks the no deal can from now to the end of the transition, while giving time to negotiate a solution.
    The DUP’s solution is closer North-South cooperation. 😯

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 4,065
    Am I right in understanding that Boris’s Brexit policy is a true BINO?

    Stay in the customs union and single market, and continue paying membership fees?

    OK.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 1,499
    kinabalu said:

    Labour's position is precisely as I have long predicted.

    And it's perfect.

    What’s perfect for a labour supporter when you win neither leavers or remainers back and give no sense of leadership. I think it’s wonderful but not for the same reason you do, but the news broadcasts aren’t presenting it correctly. A labour government would still seek to leave the EU that’s all you need to know.
  • eekeek Posts: 4,192
    nichomar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Labour's position is precisely as I have long predicted.

    And it's perfect.

    What’s perfect for a labour supporter when you win neither leavers or remainers back and give no sense of leadership. I think it’s wonderful but not for the same reason you do, but the news broadcasts aren’t presenting it correctly. A labour government would still seek to leave the EU that’s all you need to know.
    A second referendum is required to legitimately cancel Brexit or commit to an actual plan.
    It also solves the problem of how you handle leave seats - we will still leave we are just going to conform how first and surely Brexit is going to win so why worry about it.
    And it pacifies Remain voters - yes there will be a second vote but Remain will win so what are you worried about...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 12,766
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    dodrade said:

    TGOHF said:
    1) Why is Trump drawing attention to a story that has not been getting much coverage in the US? It will now! Is it a “dead cat” to distract from something else, or just a a frustrated outburst of the man child?

    2) Trump does not get to choose HM Ambassador.
    1)This perhaps?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48912797

    ....
    “...I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side....”

    I wonder who said that ?
    Under other circumstances it would be amusing that he keeps his money in the Virgin Islands.
    A vile crew, the lot of them.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 1,924
    So if Labour were in government they’d still want to leave with their deal , so what will the Tories campaign for if it’s a Labour deal or Remain.

    And you could have the bizarre scenario where most Labour MPs were trashing the Labour deal and wanting to Remain.

    And if there’s an election the Labour manifesto would be to leave with a deal which means a load of Labour voters would still vote Lib Dem and Green .

    Meaning there’s a good chance the Tories could get in .

    So basically Labours policy is completely preposterous.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 1,526
    edited July 8
    [deleted as unnecessary]
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 917
    kinabalu said:

    Labour's position is precisely as I have long predicted.

    And it's perfect.

    Do you think a higher proportion of Labour party members are happy with it than the equivalent proportion of Conservative party members, or vice versa?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 7,427
    nichomar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Labour's position is precisely as I have long predicted.

    And it's perfect.

    What’s perfect for a labour supporter when you win neither leavers or remainers back and give no sense of leadership. I think it’s wonderful but not for the same reason you do, but the news broadcasts aren’t presenting it correctly. A labour government would still seek to leave the EU that’s all you need to know.
    But give the public the final say! Allowing party members to campaign on both sides would emulate what Harold Wilson did in 1975 - and indeed what Cameron permitted in 2016.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 47,080

    [deleted as unnecessary]

    Are you new here?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 1,499
    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Labour's position is precisely as I have long predicted.

    And it's perfect.

    What’s perfect for a labour supporter when you win neither leavers or remainers back and give no sense of leadership. I think it’s wonderful but not for the same reason you do, but the news broadcasts aren’t presenting it correctly. A labour government would still seek to leave the EU that’s all you need to know.
    A second referendum is required to legitimately cancel Brexit or commit to an actual plan.
    It also solves the problem of how you handle leave seats - we will still leave we are just going to conform how first and surely Brexit is going to win so why worry about it.
    And it pacifies Remain voters - yes there will be a second vote but Remain will win so what are you worried about...
    Yes if you can trust them to actually put their deal to a referendum, I don’t corbyn will take his stunning general election victory as a mandate for his brexit so will not see the need for a referendum.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 19,063
    edited July 8
    nico67 said:

    So basically Labours policy is completely preposterous.

    And that differs from the rest of Corbyn's policy offering because...?
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 264
    justin124 said:

    nichomar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Labour's position is precisely as I have long predicted.

    And it's perfect.

    What’s perfect for a labour supporter when you win neither leavers or remainers back and give no sense of leadership. I think it’s wonderful but not for the same reason you do, but the news broadcasts aren’t presenting it correctly. A labour government would still seek to leave the EU that’s all you need to know.
    But give the public the final say! Allowing party members to campaign on both sides would emulate what Harold Wilson did in 1975 - and indeed what Cameron permitted in 2016.
    It could have the bizarre effect of most Tories campaigning for the labour brexit (as the only/last one on offer) and most Labour people campaigning against it...
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 917
    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    So basically Labours policy is completely preposterous.

    And that differs from the rest of Corbyn's policy offering because...?
    ... the unions have signed off on this one because they think it'll help Labour's electoral chances?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 19,063
    Endillion said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    So basically Labours policy is completely preposterous.

    And that differs from the rest of Corbyn's policy offering because...?
    ... the unions have signed off on this one because they think it'll help Labour's electoral chances?
    Many things the unions want are preposterous.

    For example, Len McCluskey wants us to believe Jenny Formby is fit to be GenSec of the Labour Party.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 917
    ydoethur said:

    Endillion said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    So basically Labours policy is completely preposterous.

    And that differs from the rest of Corbyn's policy offering because...?
    ... the unions have signed off on this one because they think it'll help Labour's electoral chances?
    Many things the unions want are preposterous.

    For example, Len McCluskey wants us to believe Jenny Formby is fit to be GenSec of the Labour Party.
    I was going to point out that "Len McCluskey" is not "the Unions", but then I remembered.

    I will instead settle for pointing out that he may have reasons that are not strictly professional for this bizarre desire.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 29,955

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,385

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Boris in a gimp suit? at least the wine stains won't show...
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 1,924

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771

    What happens if there is an election called?

    Surely this act can't prevent a dissolution of Parliament due to a General Election? And it can't be recalled during an Election can it?
    As MPs would have to vote for a GE presumably that is fine and would take precedence if they choose to do so? Or the MPs could try and get something to prevent no deal happening during that GE period before agreeing to one.
    Is that how the proposed law is currently written? If not, then it is not how it would be applied, and somehow Parliament would have to be called after it was dissolved... with no members.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 825
    Scott_P said:
    Labour in a complete guddle, and still the Tories are three points behind.

    Bit of a stinker for Farage’s lot.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771

    I may have missed it, but I don't think the White House has disputed the Ambassador's assessment.

    Neither has HMG :)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    nico67 said:

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
    How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?

    I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.

    At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 47,080

    At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.

    Neither of those statements is true.

    Apart from that...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771
    edited July 8

    nico67 said:

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
    How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?

    I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.

    At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
    Typical leaver moron. EU good, US bad.

    :smiley: :p
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 480

    Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.

    Under the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement the Irish border is dealt with as part of the future deal too. The backstop does not deal with the Irish border. It puts a procedure in place to protect it in the event that it is not dealt with under the future arrangement. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. It's not that complicated.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 9,385

    nico67 said:

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
    How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?

    I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.

    At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
    So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771

    Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.

    Under the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement the Irish border is dealt with as part of the future deal too. The backstop does not deal with the Irish border. It puts a procedure in place to protect it in the event that it is not dealt with under the future arrangement. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. It's not that complicated.
    I think the problem is that the EU might view the backstop as the preferred outcome. That would hardly motivate them towards negotiating an actual future deal, would it.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
    How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?

    I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.

    At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
    So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
    I don't support being in either the USA or EU . . . but yes I do support that.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 825
    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
    How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?

    I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.

    At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
    So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
    They are incapable of thinking more than one move in advance.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 825
    That ComRes leaves Labour about 42 short of a MAJ.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 480
    RobD said:

    Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.

    Under the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement the Irish border is dealt with as part of the future deal too. The backstop does not deal with the Irish border. It puts a procedure in place to protect it in the event that it is not dealt with under the future arrangement. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. It's not that complicated.
    I think the problem is that the EU might view the backstop as the preferred outcome. That would hardly motivate them towards negotiating an actual future deal, would it.
    That is not the case though. In fact some in the EU think the backstop is a British trick to allow the UK access to the single market while undermining EU standards. Remember the UK wide backstop was a British idea.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 23,838


    At last, a reason to vote for Corbyn!!!! At least he wont take this idiot's phone calls.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 29,955

    nico67 said:

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
    How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?

    I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.

    At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.

    Your inability to understand the difference between being Rhode Island within the US and France within the EU explains a great deal.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,018
    edited July 8

    nico67 said:

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
    How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?

    I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.

    At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
    When I saw @TheScreamingEagles post above, I was going to respond with "for some Leavers, the problem was not being governed by a foreign country, it was being governed by the wrong foreign country."

    I genuinely didn't expect you to provide an actual example!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028

    Boris Johnson's is a sensible position. Get a standstill agreement so we are out but still following their rules, we get no say in new rules and give them money (Theresa May's transition basically) . . . deal with NI during negotiations for the future where it should belong.

    Under the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement the Irish border is dealt with as part of the future deal too. The backstop does not deal with the Irish border. It puts a procedure in place to protect it in the event that it is not dealt with under the future arrangement. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. It's not that complicated.
    The procedure to "protect it" deals with it until we get permission to remove the procedure. That's not OK.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 57,540



    At last, a reason to vote for Corbyn!!!! At least he wont take this idiot's phone calls.

    Trump is more popular than Corbyn with Leave voters and Tory voters in the latest Ashcroft poll
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771

    nico67 said:

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
    How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?

    I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.

    At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.

    Your inability to understand the difference between being Rhode Island within the US and France within the EU explains a great deal.

    Today, perhaps, but in the coming decades?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 57,540
    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
    How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?

    I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.

    At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
    So, you support abolition of the monarchy?
    Australia, Canada and New Zealand are closer to us than the USA or Europe and both have the monarchy
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    viewcode said:

    nico67 said:

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
    How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?

    I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.

    At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
    When I saw @TheScreamingEagles post above, I was going to respond with "for some Leavers, the problem was not being governed by a foreign country, it was being governed by the wrong foreign country.

    I genuinely didn't expect you to provide an actual example!
    I thought it was obvious I was coming from a perspective of not wanting to be a state of either the USA or EU. The second sentence surely makes that clear, if being a state of the USA was OK but a state of the EU was not then that would be a material difference.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 825
    Economic downturn 'may have begun' in Northern Ireland

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-48885176

    That’ll be one of those “Union Dividends”.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028

    nico67 said:

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
    How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?

    I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.

    At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.

    Your inability to understand the difference between being Rhode Island within the US and France within the EU explains a great deal.

    Despite one having had the ratchett of federalism for a couple of centuries and the other for only a few decades, there are a number of areas where Rhode Island has more autonomy than France.

    Give it a few more decades/centuries and I think the distinction will be very weak.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 57,540
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 23,838
    It is TIME TO STAND UP FOR BRITAIN! Tell Trump to do one.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 29,186

    nico67 said:

    Theresa May should summon the US Ambassador. Trump’s rantings are highly offensive and unprecedented.

    The Tories have two masters: Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. They will do nothing to upset either of them. It’s called taking back control.

    Tragic . But many Leavers seem to love being the new 51st state. When do we start celebrating thanksgiving!
    How's it any different to Europhiles loving being a state of the EU?

    I see no material difference between being a state of the USA or a state of the EU.

    At least the USA has the same language and a common culture.
    I used to think such statements implied an ignorance of the rest of Europe and/or the USA, but perhaps it’s British culture that is really alien to Leavers.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771

    Economic downturn 'may have begun' in Northern Ireland

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-48885176

    That’ll be one of those “Union Dividends”.

    No. the "Union Dividend" is the fat load of cash they get every year.
Sign In or Register to comment.