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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Johnson v Hunt – what do you think?

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    MaxPB said:

    kjohnw said:

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    the Ambassador should not have made unnecessary insulting remarks about the President of the United States, regardless of his own personal views, he has not acted in a professional manner, and has demeaned his office, he should resign forthwith, and fall on his sword. He has mired the UK US relationship
    The ambassador should be free to say what he wants. The issue is that some arsehole has leaked a diplomatic cable which is a treasonable offence.

    The issue with Darroch isn't that he said it, that's a fair game. The issue is that he's unloved in Washington, and that's because he isn't able to move past the personal issues he clearly has with Trump. He isn't able to separate business from personality, Trump is president, whether or not Darroch wants him to be. His attitude has left this nation out in the cold, he was the wrong person for the job.
    And what should have happened is for (a) Trump to remain silent on Twitter, but (b) make it known that the UK-US relationship would improve if there was a new Ambassador.

    We would then have quietly found another role for Sir Kim, perhaps a promotion to the House of Lords.

    And all would continue.

    The problem is that we cannot have anybody - whether Juncker, Macron, Modi or Trump - dictate publicly who our Ambassadors should be.
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,310

    glw said:

    Boris does not make people laugh as such but makes them feel happy or good about themselves or about whatever topic Boris is talking about . Installing that is a good quality of any leader - far better than being a policy or detail obsessive to the point of installing misery in people

    If Boris wants to be Major of London again, or party chairman, that would be fine; being a laugh, a figurehead who lets others do the hard work, and bluffing your way can work at some levels. Prime Minister is not one of those jobs.

    If he even gets there he is going to be severely exposed. The top job is like having your soul x-rayed I seem to recall someone said.
    Is it possible to x-ray something that doesn't exist?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917

    Pulpstar said:

    Real clear politics has updated Aaand... Biden still leads by 14.3 from Harris, Sanders and Warren who are all very close.

    I topped up at 7.8 the other day. Still on at 7.6.
    The pundits, particularly CNN are utterly in love with Harris. They seem to hate Bernie most of all !
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Real clear politics has updated Aaand... Biden still leads by 14.3 from Harris, Sanders and Warren who are all very close.

    I topped up at 7.8 the other day. Still on at 7.6.
    The pundits, particularly CNN are utterly in love with Harris. They seem to hate Bernie most of all !
    Difficult to believe that 7.6 wont be a lot lower at some point in next 12 months.
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,310
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    “Hunt’s team going down swinging...” one way of cheering themselves up, I guess. But do they have to tell us all about it ?
    Nobody's going to beat the Swinson jibe: 'Boris is what you get if you send Trump to Eton."

    She deserves to win her own election for that alone.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    If he even gets there he is going to be severely exposed. The top job is like having your soul x-rayed I seem to recall someone said.

    Much like with Trump you have to wonder if Boris has really thought through the consequences of winning.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204
    To bed.

    The prospect of Boris and Trump as leaders of the Free World is too depressing. I need the escape of sleep.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,283

    To bed.

    For we rise at daybreak.

    (Me too)
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    rcs1000 said:

    The problem is that we cannot have anybody - whether Juncker, Macron, Modi or Trump - dictate publicly who our Ambassadors should be.

    BoZo is fine with it
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    glw said:

    Much like with Trump you have to wonder if Boris has really thought through the consequences of winning.

    As much as he thought through the consequences of winning the referendum
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Real clear politics has updated Aaand... Biden still leads by 14.3 from Harris, Sanders and Warren who are all very close.

    I topped up at 7.8 the other day. Still on at 7.6.
    The pundits, particularly CNN are utterly in love with Harris. They seem to hate Bernie most of all !
    Difficult to believe that 7.6 wont be a lot lower at some point in next 12 months.
    Assuming Biden even makes it to Iowa. I don't think I've ever seen a politician seem less like they're enjoying a campaign.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    rcs1000 said:

    kjohnw said:

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    the Ambassador should not have made unnecessary insulting remarks about the President of the United States, regardless of his own personal views, he has not acted in a professional manner, and has demeaned his office, he should resign forthwith, and fall on his sword. He has mired the UK US relationship
    I'll bet you our ambassador to the EU has described Juncker as an incoherent drunk
    It also seems a bit harsh to ask the guy to resign and then fall on his sword. Forthwith, too.
    I though that sort of thing went out of fashion with the end of the Roman empire ?
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    MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    GIN1138 said:

    Ian Dunt lowering the tone as usual...

    But nailing the content.
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Scott_P said:
    I don’t particularly like these traitor headlines . It was bad enough with the right wing press using inflammatory rhetoric.

    They should have just said Trump arselicker!



  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    rcs1000 said:


    And what should have happened is for (a) Trump to remain silent on Twitter, but (b) make it known that the UK-US relationship would improve if there was a new Ambassador.

    We would then have quietly found another role for Sir Kim, perhaps a promotion to the House of Lords.



    Indeed.

    It's almost as if Trump is ..... incompetent. Or inept.

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    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Real clear politics has updated Aaand... Biden still leads by 14.3 from Harris, Sanders and Warren who are all very close.

    I topped up at 7.8 the other day. Still on at 7.6.
    The pundits, particularly CNN are utterly in love with Harris. They seem to hate Bernie most of all !
    Difficult to believe that 7.6 wont be a lot lower at some point in next 12 months.
    Assuming Biden even makes it to Iowa. I don't think I've ever seen a politician seem less like they're enjoying a campaign.
    If Biden or Trump wins 2020, then I should imagine the prospect of death in office rises in probability. Biden is even older than Trump so as the challenger ticket they will need a strong VP candidate. You dont think Biden will get the nomination but it is also true experts did not think Trump could achieve the nomination or the presidency.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,955
    Andrew said:

    rcs1000 said:


    And what should have happened is for (a) Trump to remain silent on Twitter, but (b) make it known that the UK-US relationship would improve if there was a new Ambassador.

    We would then have quietly found another role for Sir Kim, perhaps a promotion to the House of Lords.



    Indeed.

    It's almost as if Trump is ..... incompetent. Or inept.

    Or has an alternative agenda. And no attention span.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    “Hunt’s team going down swinging...” one way of cheering themselves up, I guess. But do they have to tell us all about it ?
    Nobody's going to beat the Swinson jibe: 'Boris is what you get if you send Trump to Eton."

    She deserves to win her own election for that alone.
    Sounds like a typically ghastly braying Lib Dem joke. Hope it didn't make anyone choke on their organic fairtrade quinoa.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    TOPPING said:

    To bed.

    For we rise at daybreak.

    (Me too)
    Slacker. I'm typically up before the crack of dawn, although I'm cheating a bit in terms of latitude :p
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    HYUFD said:

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    The 52%
    Not this member of the 52%.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413
    Everyone forgets that the sainted Cameron wasn't a details man and was forever making up policy on the hoof. It has been well documented that Cameron interpreted the PMs role as that of cheerleader, setting the agenda and letting others do the grunt work. Boris is no different. EU aside (probably...), Boris will be a very Cameronite PM.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    “Hunt’s team going down swinging...” one way of cheering themselves up, I guess. But do they have to tell us all about it ?
    Nobody's going to beat the Swinson jibe: 'Boris is what you get if you send Trump to Eton."

    She deserves to win her own election for that alone.
    Perfect political joke. Anyone who objects to this kind of humour sounds like a mealy mouthed, joyless, white man, sadddo.....


  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    tyson said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    “Hunt’s team going down swinging...” one way of cheering themselves up, I guess. But do they have to tell us all about it ?
    Nobody's going to beat the Swinson jibe: 'Boris is what you get if you send Trump to Eton."

    She deserves to win her own election for that alone.
    Perfect political joke. Anyone who objects to this kind of humour sounds like a mealy mouthed, joyless, white man, sadddo.....


    And as I post this....up steps Luckyguy...ticks all the boxes I listed above..except I would think he could add some more....

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Matthew Goodwin article:

    "Many of the Brexit Party’s most favourable seats are currently in Labour hands. Of the 20 most favourable, no fewer than 16 were won by Labour in 2017; of the 50 most favourable, 36 are held by Labour. They include seats such as Yvette Cooper’s seat of Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford and other northern Labour seats such as Stoke-on-Trent North, Wentworth and Dearne, and Easington. In many of these places, Labour’s MPs have large majorities, which have been built up over many years. But this is not the case in all of them."

    https://unherd.com/2019/07/the-battle-for-brexit-britain/
  • Options
    ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438
    Scott_P said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The problem is that we cannot have anybody - whether Juncker, Macron, Modi or Trump - dictate publicly who our Ambassadors should be.

    BoZo is fine with it
    Boris isn’t a lone voice on this. There’s the trump lovers, who feel ambassador sacked for saying such lies in arrogant way. There’s the hardcheeseerz, a crime this was ever leaked, but we are where we are and the stand off is untenable. There may even be those who answer RCS “we cannot have anyone dictate who are ambassadors are” with why not, this is the new politics, the bully bullies you you toe the line or make it worse for yourself.

    Maybe this is what it was like on the receiving end of the British empire, now it’s Brexit Britain’s turn to be fed it on a spoon and drink it down whilst it’s still warm
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Everyone forgets that the sainted Cameron wasn't a details man and was forever making up policy on the hoof. It has been well documented that Cameron interpreted the PMs role as that of cheerleader, setting the agenda and letting others do the grunt work. Boris is no different. EU aside (probably...), Boris will be a very Cameronite PM.

    Is that what the times call for? The critical issue of the day requires more than cheerleading and optimism.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413
    kle4 said:

    Everyone forgets that the sainted Cameron wasn't a details man and was forever making up policy on the hoof. It has been well documented that Cameron interpreted the PMs role as that of cheerleader, setting the agenda and letting others do the grunt work. Boris is no different. EU aside (probably...), Boris will be a very Cameronite PM.

    Is that what the times call for? The critical issue of the day requires more than cheerleading and optimism.
    Perhaps that's exactly, and everything, that it needs.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,734

    Scott_P said:

    Just like I dont want to be led by an idiot, I dont want the types of people he appeals to deciding my future. It is very depressing. I am just going to have to accept this like all the other unfair shit I suffer in life! Life can be cruel...

    https://twitter.com/EmmaKennedy/status/1148681091940794368
    I am sorry for her to be honest. There is a lot more to life than politics
    That's not actually true. We live in a country with the rule of law, a broadly uncorrupt police and judiciary, a reasonably free press, competent schooling and armed forces and extensive social care. Those didn't drop from the sky, they had to be fought for by political means. We blithely assume that they are eternal and do not need to be fought for again. We forget how badly wrong things can go and how quickly.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    “Hunt’s team going down swinging...” one way of cheering themselves up, I guess. But do they have to tell us all about it ?
    Nobody's going to beat the Swinson jibe: 'Boris is what you get if you send Trump to Eton."

    She deserves to win her own election for that alone.
    Sounds like a typically ghastly braying Lib Dem joke. Hope it didn't make anyone choke on their organic fairtrade quinoa.
    What's ghastly about it? It efficiently combines a dislike of Trump to the perceived over representation of a very very posh establishment in our politics. Whether one agrees with it or not it seems pretty effective - and given Boris is a fan of Trump it's not even a jibe he would object to, surely?
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    The 52%
    Not this member of the 52%.
    HYFUD obsessive support of Trump and Boris is what puts me off going on to the comments on this site...the guy is like 50 million posts and counting of this kind of partisan, brain dead trite
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    kle4 said:

    Everyone forgets that the sainted Cameron wasn't a details man and was forever making up policy on the hoof. It has been well documented that Cameron interpreted the PMs role as that of cheerleader, setting the agenda and letting others do the grunt work. Boris is no different. EU aside (probably...), Boris will be a very Cameronite PM.

    Is that what the times call for? The critical issue of the day requires more than cheerleading and optimism.
    Perhaps that's exactly, and everything, that it needs.
    I fail to see how saying Britain is great and it will all work out would be a useful remedy for the issues we face as a country. Not that endless doomsaying is good for the country, but I find it hard to believe the issues we face are so simple that a perky attitude will see us through.
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,287
    Betfair Most Seats

    Con 2.0
    Lab 2.94

    Lab last matched at 2.96 - that is their longest price EVER since the market opened (ie just after the last GE).
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The House of Lords are likely to cause more trouble for the government when the NI Bill goes through its stages there.

    I expect Lord Pannick and others to add amendments to stop a future PM from suspending Parliament to push through a no deal.

  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
    Scott_P said:
    As long as it only cost the Tory Party thousands and not the tax payer, who cares? :D
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Everyone forgets that the sainted Cameron wasn't a details man and was forever making up policy on the hoof. It has been well documented that Cameron interpreted the PMs role as that of cheerleader, setting the agenda and letting others do the grunt work. Boris is no different. EU aside (probably...), Boris will be a very Cameronite PM.

    Is that what the times call for? The critical issue of the day requires more than cheerleading and optimism.
    Perhaps that's exactly, and everything, that it needs.
    I fail to see how saying Britain is great and it will all work out would be a useful remedy for the issues we face as a country. Not that endless doomsaying is good for the country, but I find it hard to believe the issues we face are so simple that a perky attitude will see us through.
    The calmer remainer faction here admits that even no deal won't be that bad. We don't have a Brexit issue, we have a media and political class demoralising the public (rather successfully judging from PB of late) issue. If you look at it that way, an optimism enema is exactly what the country needs. Whether Boris will stay the course and deliver that is not fully known, but it is not outside his skill set.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
    edited July 2019

    Everyone forgets that the sainted Cameron wasn't a details man and was forever making up policy on the hoof. It has been well documented that Cameron interpreted the PMs role as that of cheerleader, setting the agenda and letting others do the grunt work. Boris is no different. EU aside (probably...), Boris will be a very Cameronite PM.

    Yes and lets not forget Cameron was forever making stupid gaffes and putting his foot in it... Like when he claimed he'd had HMQ purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone. ;)
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    nico67 said:

    The House of Lords are likely to cause more trouble for the government when the NI Bill goes through its stages there.

    I expect Lord Pannick and others to add amendments to stop a future PM from suspending Parliament to push through a no deal.

    If only Lord Pannick could have persuaded colleagues and like minded souls in the House of Commons to completely remove no deal as an option somehow, some kind of deal that would have prevented it completely. With no deal being so bad, clearly anything else would be acceptable.

    But I guess no deal is not so bad after all, if so many avoid taking the option to prevent it for sure.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    tyson said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    The 52%
    Not this member of the 52%.
    HYFUD obsessive support of Trump and Boris is what puts me off going on to the comments on this site...the guy is like 50 million posts and counting of this kind of partisan, brain dead trite
    You could ignore comments you don't like instead of getting annoyed by them.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    The 52%
    Not this member of the 52%.
    Not the 4 members of the 52% in chez BJO either
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    GIN1138 said:

    Ian Dunt lowering the tone as usual...

    If your surname was Dunt, don’t you imagine you might have become habituated to Anglo Saxon epithets at a young age ?
    And in any event, in this case his economy and accuracy of expression is admirable.

  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413
    GIN1138 said:

    Everyone forgets that the sainted Cameron wasn't a details man and was forever making up policy on the hoof. It has been well documented that Cameron interpreted the PMs role as that of cheerleader, setting the agenda and letting others do the grunt work. Boris is no different. EU aside (probably...), Boris will be a very Cameronite PM.

    Yes and lets not forget Cameron was forever making stupid gaffes and putting his foot in it... Like when he claimed he'd had HMQ purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone. ;)
    Totally forgot that one. :lol:
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    The 52%
    Not this member of the 52%.
    Not the 4 members of the 52% in chez BJO either
    And while it is fair enough to say those like me are no longer proper leavers, as will surely be done, it's simply impossible to claim people are not members of the 52% when they did vote leave. Some of the 48% even overcompensate to prove their devotion to leave now.
  • Options
    ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438
    Tomorrow’s papers. You surely have to agree with me

    1. The newspapers Meg bashing is getter more cruel by the day, is unnecessary and sickening.

    2. Dan Sturridge is having a Turkish if he expects us to believe that is a dog. That is a glove puppet isn’t it?
  • Options
    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    edited July 2019

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Everyone forgets that the sainted Cameron wasn't a details man and was forever making up policy on the hoof. It has been well documented that Cameron interpreted the PMs role as that of cheerleader, setting the agenda and letting others do the grunt work. Boris is no different. EU aside (probably...), Boris will be a very Cameronite PM.

    Is that what the times call for? The critical issue of the day requires more than cheerleading and optimism.
    Perhaps that's exactly, and everything, that it needs.
    I fail to see how saying Britain is great and it will all work out would be a useful remedy for the issues we face as a country. Not that endless doomsaying is good for the country, but I find it hard to believe the issues we face are so simple that a perky attitude will see us through.
    The calmer remainer faction here admits that even no deal won't be that bad. We don't have a Brexit issue, we have a media and political class demoralising the public (rather successfully judging from PB of late) issue. If you look at it that way, an optimism enema is exactly what the country needs. Whether Boris will stay the course and deliver that is not fully known, but it is not outside his skill set.
    I take the doom mongering as a contrarian indicator. The more doom mongering the better leave is doing.

    Since end of March there has been a ramp up and the attacks on Boris are at such a level that the indicator is now almost off the scale that leave is definitely on.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
    edited July 2019
    Just caught up with the debate and I'd score it overall

    Boris 5

    Hunt 5

    Boris was on the defensive for most of it, which is never a good place for him as he does better when he's on the attack or making a positve case and generally cheering people up. He was best on Brexit but otherwise a pretty poor performance.

    Hunt was just artack, attack, attack... which to me is a sign of how far behind Boris he knows he is. He had absolutely nothing positive to say about anything. And is just a more agressive version of Theresa May. Dull, dull, dull (with a nasty side)

    On the issue of Brexit though I'd score it:

    Boris 7

    Hunt 3

    Hunt is just not convincing at all that he actually has the will or the desire to get Brexit done. And that's why Boris will win this at least 60/30 because Tories have been through the Theresa May experiance and it's taken them to the brink of total annihiliation - they don't want to go bacl there with Jeremy Hunt.

    Final thought - it seems Hunt has no plans to serve in a Boris Johnson government given the brutal way he attacked him in this debate (and if Boris was intending to offer him a big job that's surely off the table as well now) so there's another big name heading to the backbanches in two weeks time.

    Yet another reason why it'll have to be an Autumn election.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,734
    AndyJS said:

    Matthew Goodwin article:

    "Many of the Brexit Party’s most favourable seats are currently in Labour hands. Of the 20 most favourable, no fewer than 16 were won by Labour in 2017; of the 50 most favourable, 36 are held by Labour. They include seats such as Yvette Cooper’s seat of Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford and other northern Labour seats such as Stoke-on-Trent North, Wentworth and Dearne, and Easington. In many of these places, Labour’s MPs have large majorities, which have been built up over many years. But this is not the case in all of them."

    https://unherd.com/2019/07/the-battle-for-brexit-britain/

    Matthew employs a technique which I call "most/many/some". Imagine a world with 100 constituencies. 30 of them have a majority to make ice-cream illegal. 30 of them do not have a majority but do have a significant minority against icecream. 40 of them have a overwhelming majority for icecream. So all in all, there is no majority to illegalise icecream.

    Matthew would describe it as "in at least 40% of the constituencies most people hate ice cream and many more do in 30% more. Even in the remainder there are some large pockets of icecream haters." Most many, some: see?

    The advantage of this trick is you can turn it around and say exactly the opposite with the same evidence.

    Remember what I said about Matthew being a good analyst but a bad advocate?
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    I think Hunt's reaction to the ambassador leaks is pretty disingenuous, if not as craven as Johnson's. Liam Fox called this right. The problem is entirely with whoever leaked the emails.

    Fox is growing on me. At least he's an adult.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Real clear politics has updated Aaand... Biden still leads by 14.3 from Harris, Sanders and Warren who are all very close.

    I topped up at 7.8 the other day. Still on at 7.6.
    The pundits, particularly CNN are utterly in love with Harris. They seem to hate Bernie most of all !
    Difficult to believe that 7.6 wont be a lot lower at some point in next 12 months.
    Assuming Biden even makes it to Iowa. I don't think I've ever seen a politician seem less like they're enjoying a campaign.
    I've found you on Strava, was Peloton a 2 week wonder :p ?
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    The House of Lords are likely to cause more trouble for the government when the NI Bill goes through its stages there.

    I expect Lord Pannick and others to add amendments to stop a future PM from suspending Parliament to push through a no deal.

    If only Lord Pannick could have persuaded colleagues and like minded souls in the House of Commons to completely remove no deal as an option somehow, some kind of deal that would have prevented it completely. With no deal being so bad, clearly anything else would be acceptable.

    But I guess no deal is not so bad after all, if so many avoid taking the option to prevent it for sure.
    Lord Pannick is a brilliant QC .

    I followed the Gina Miller case obsessively , reading daily transcripts . Yes I know I should get out more !

    It’s difficult at the moment to get strong majorities on amendments because the Tory leadership is complicating matters .

    I think Bozo comments on suspending parliament will move enough MPs to vote for something more substantial that’s likely to come through the Lords next week, they’re likely to pass some beefed up Grieve amendments .

    However I expect the main fireworks though in September/October .

  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    Does the PM actually appoint ambassadors? Aren’t they civil servants? Sacking without cause is unfair dismissal. Darroch could take the government to the cleaners. The discovery process alone would be delicious.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    nico67 said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    The House of Lords are likely to cause more trouble for the government when the NI Bill goes through its stages there.

    I expect Lord Pannick and others to add amendments to stop a future PM from suspending Parliament to push through a no deal.

    If only Lord Pannick could have persuaded colleagues and like minded souls in the House of Commons to completely remove no deal as an option somehow, some kind of deal that would have prevented it completely. With no deal being so bad, clearly anything else would be acceptable.

    But I guess no deal is not so bad after all, if so many avoid taking the option to prevent it for sure.
    Lord Pannick is a brilliant QC .

    I followed the Gina Miller case obsessively , reading daily transcripts . Yes I know I should get out more !

    It’s difficult at the moment to get strong majorities on amendments because the Tory leadership is complicating matters .

    I think Bozo comments on suspending parliament will move enough MPs to vote for something more substantial that’s likely to come through the Lords next week, they’re likely to pass some beefed up Grieve amendments .

    However I expect the main fireworks though in September/October .

    I'm sure he is very brilliant. But I think he like many is not as outraged by the thought of no deal or the damage it could do as they claim to be. Sure they are trying to stop it, but only in a way to get their other goals. There are far easier ways to stop it if that was their main goal. It isn't, ergo they are over egging how bad they think it is.

    Night all.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,955
    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Matthew Goodwin article:

    "Many of the Brexit Party’s most favourable seats are currently in Labour hands. Of the 20 most favourable, no fewer than 16 were won by Labour in 2017; of the 50 most favourable, 36 are held by Labour. They include seats such as Yvette Cooper’s seat of Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford and other northern Labour seats such as Stoke-on-Trent North, Wentworth and Dearne, and Easington. In many of these places, Labour’s MPs have large majorities, which have been built up over many years. But this is not the case in all of them."

    https://unherd.com/2019/07/the-battle-for-brexit-britain/

    Matthew employs a technique which I call "most/many/some". Imagine a world with 100 constituencies. 30 of them have a majority to make ice-cream illegal. 30 of them do not have a majority but do have a significant minority against icecream. 40 of them have a overwhelming majority for icecream. So all in all, there is no majority to illegalise icecream.

    Matthew would describe it as "in at least 40% of the constituencies most people hate ice cream and many more do in 30% more. Even in the remainder there are some large pockets of icecream haters." Most many, some: see?

    The advantage of this trick is you can turn it around and say exactly the opposite with the same evidence.

    Remember what I said about Matthew being a good analyst but a bad advocate?
    Reading the article in its entirety it is actually more pessimistic about Tory chances vis a vis Brexit Party, than Labour's.
    Mainly as the Tories seem to view Leave voters exclusively through the prism of Tory voting Leave voters. Hence Singapore on Thames and tax cuts for £80k a year earners.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Real clear politics has updated Aaand... Biden still leads by 14.3 from Harris, Sanders and Warren who are all very close.

    I topped up at 7.8 the other day. Still on at 7.6.
    The pundits, particularly CNN are utterly in love with Harris. They seem to hate Bernie most of all !
    Difficult to believe that 7.6 wont be a lot lower at some point in next 12 months.
    Assuming Biden even makes it to Iowa. I don't think I've ever seen a politician seem less like they're enjoying a campaign.
    I've found you on Strava, was Peloton a 2 week wonder :p ?
    I'm actually right next to my Peloton right now :smile:

    Recently, I've been swimming. When I find my cycling shoes, I shall Peloton again,
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,120
    GIN1138 said:

    Just caught up with the debate and I'd score it overall

    Boris 5

    Hunt 5

    Boris was on the defensive for most of it, which is never a good place for him as he does better when he's on the attack or making a positve case and generally cheering people up. He was best on Brexit but otherwise a pretty poor performance.

    Hunt was just artack, attack, attack... which to me is a sign of how far behind Boris he knows he is. He had absolutely nothing positive to say about anything. And is just a more agressive version of Theresa May. Dull, dull, dull (with a nasty side)

    On the issue of Brexit though I'd score it:

    Boris 7

    Hunt 3

    Hunt is just not convincing at all that he actually has the will or the desire to get Brexit done. And that's why Boris will win this at least 60/30 because Tories have been through the Theresa May experiance and it's taken them to the brink of total annihiliation - they don't want to go bacl there with Jeremy Hunt.

    Realistically it's more of a choice about how and when the Tories would prefer to be annihilated.

    I suppose at least if Johnson followed through on what he's saying, it would be quick.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,734
    rcs1000 said:

    ...When I find my cycling shoes, I shall Peloton again,

    Perv... :)
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    dixiedean said:

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Matthew Goodwin article:

    "Many of the Brexit Party’s most favourable seats are currently in Labour hands. Of the 20 most favourable, no fewer than 16 were won by Labour in 2017; of the 50 most favourable, 36 are held by Labour. They include seats such as Yvette Cooper’s seat of Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford and other northern Labour seats such as Stoke-on-Trent North, Wentworth and Dearne, and Easington. In many of these places, Labour’s MPs have large majorities, which have been built up over many years. But this is not the case in all of them."

    https://unherd.com/2019/07/the-battle-for-brexit-britain/

    Matthew employs a technique which I call "most/many/some". Imagine a world with 100 constituencies. 30 of them have a majority to make ice-cream illegal. 30 of them do not have a majority but do have a significant minority against icecream. 40 of them have a overwhelming majority for icecream. So all in all, there is no majority to illegalise icecream.

    Matthew would describe it as "in at least 40% of the constituencies most people hate ice cream and many more do in 30% more. Even in the remainder there are some large pockets of icecream haters." Most many, some: see?

    The advantage of this trick is you can turn it around and say exactly the opposite with the same evidence.

    Remember what I said about Matthew being a good analyst but a bad advocate?
    Reading the article in its entirety it is actually more pessimistic about Tory chances vis a vis Brexit Party, than Labour's.
    Mainly as the Tories seem to view Leave voters exclusively through the prism of Tory voting Leave voters. Hence Singapore on Thames and tax cuts for £80k a year earners.
    Plus an Australian style migration points system, our own FTAs and more money for the NHS and police
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Does Ian Dunt ever write anything worth reading?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    tyson said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    The 52%
    Not this member of the 52%.
    HYFUD obsessive support of Trump and Boris is what puts me off going on to the comments on this site...the guy is like 50 million posts and counting of this kind of partisan, brain dead trite
    The only opinion worth having being that of a stop Brexit Remainer or a soft Brexiteer at most of course
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    Cyclefree said:

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    Does the PM actually appoint ambassadors? Aren’t they civil servants? Sacking without cause is unfair dismissal. Darroch could take the government to the cleaners. The discovery process alone would be delicious.
    He'd just be reassigned, surely?
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Real clear politics has updated Aaand... Biden still leads by 14.3 from Harris, Sanders and Warren who are all very close.

    I topped up at 7.8 the other day. Still on at 7.6.
    The pundits, particularly CNN are utterly in love with Harris. They seem to hate Bernie most of all !
    Bernie has a bit of a hate /anti-fan club...

    https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/1148660403330801664

    The problem is if they make it too obvious it could work in his favour.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,734
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    The 52%
    Not this member of the 52%.
    HYFUD obsessive support of Trump and Boris is what puts me off going on to the comments on this site...the guy is like 50 million posts and counting of this kind of partisan, brain dead trite
    The only opinion worth having being that of a stop Brexit Remainer or a soft Brexiteer at most of course
    :)
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,269
    A Boris administration will be inept, insecure and incompetent! Sad!
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    Late to this but just watching the video, the big takeaway is that it looks like there's going to be another Brexit extension. Whenever he got pressed on the deadline Boris always couched it in "we have to be firm about this deadline to show the EU and business that we're serious and get things done". That tees everything up for "we were right to be firm about that deadline to make everyone take it seriously, but now that it's arrived..."
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,614
    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    Does the PM actually appoint ambassadors? Aren’t they civil servants? Sacking without cause is unfair dismissal. Darroch could take the government to the cleaners. The discovery process alone would be delicious.
    He'd just be reassigned, surely?
    In normal times (he retires in December) his successor would have been announced 6 months ago......something's been distracting the government.

    Meanwhile, I hope the leaker gets jail time....
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,994
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Real clear politics has updated Aaand... Biden still leads by 14.3 from Harris, Sanders and Warren who are all very close.

    I topped up at 7.8 the other day. Still on at 7.6.
    The pundits, particularly CNN are utterly in love with Harris. They seem to hate Bernie most of all !
    Difficult to believe that 7.6 wont be a lot lower at some point in next 12 months.
    Assuming Biden even makes it to Iowa. I don't think I've ever seen a politician seem less like they're enjoying a campaign.
    I've found you on Strava, was Peloton a 2 week wonder :p ?
    We need a pb.com Strava group. 3w/kg for 20 minutes to get in.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    Does the PM actually appoint ambassadors? Aren’t they civil servants? Sacking without cause is unfair dismissal. Darroch could take the government to the cleaners. The discovery process alone would be delicious.
    He'd just be reassigned, surely?
    In normal times (he retires in December) his successor would have been announced 6 months ago......something's been distracting the government.

    Meanwhile, I hope the leaker gets jail time....
    There's the sensible way forward for the government: they can announce Sir Kim's replacement. He can then head to Washington for a handover, and Sir Kim while remaining titular Ambassador, can fade from view.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,614
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,614
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Boris wants to throw the Ambassador under the bus.

    What a tosser.

    Who, apart from the slavering nutjobs in the Tory Party, are actually going to vote for this clown?

    Does the PM actually appoint ambassadors? Aren’t they civil servants? Sacking without cause is unfair dismissal. Darroch could take the government to the cleaners. The discovery process alone would be delicious.
    He'd just be reassigned, surely?
    In normal times (he retires in December) his successor would have been announced 6 months ago......something's been distracting the government.

    Meanwhile, I hope the leaker gets jail time....
    There's the sensible way forward for the government: they can announce Sir Kim's replacement. He can then head to Washington for a handover, and Sir Kim while remaining titular Ambassador, can fade from view.
    When Boris does it (May should have done it months ago, but can hardly do it now with days left of her premiership) if he picks a politician (and there is good, albeit rare and decades old precedence) he'll be slammed for kowtowing to Trump. In the meantime, the sooner the leaker is jailed, the better.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    Too late for second thoughts, the voters have already voted.

    Getting the bad news out of the way so it's old news by the time the honeymoon comes around?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,614

    Too late for second thoughts, the voters have already voted.

    Getting the bad news out of the way so it's old news by the time the honeymoon comes around?
    Just what Downing Street needs to improve the UK's reputation, an alleged expenses cheat mistress nearly a quarter of a century younger than her twice divorced paramour who himself has, as Wikipedia observes, "between 5 & 6 children'....

    Just imagine for a second their sexes were reversed....twice divorced Mum of between 5 & 6 children with quarter of a century younger toyboy.....the Mail would be apoplectic.....
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,614
    Someone else missing the point.......

    https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1148643123859529728
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,614
    AndyJS said:
    Thanks - interesting article:

    As the European election fades in voters’ memory, might not its impact simply wear off? Maybe. Except that the issue that exposed the fragility of the respective electoral coalitions two years ago­—Brexit—is unlikely to go away soon. Moreover, as we have seen, both Conservative and Labour support had been falling in the wake of the Brexit impasse well before the European elections (or Farage’s Brexit Party) had come anywhere close to the horizon. In short, while the immediate impact of the European election on the standing of the parties might well fade somewhat, there is little reason to anticipate that the status quo ante will be easily or readily restored.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    It's never the wrong time to share this

    https://youtu.be/l1uKNAMU1Qw
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,614
    Do it Darroch! Do it!

    https://twitter.com/haveigotnews/status/1148601471593865217

    Actually, he's almost certainly too much the diplomat....
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Real clear politics has updated Aaand... Biden still leads by 14.3 from Harris, Sanders and Warren who are all very close.

    I topped up at 7.8 the other day. Still on at 7.6.
    The pundits, particularly CNN are utterly in love with Harris. They seem to hate Bernie most of all !
    Difficult to believe that 7.6 wont be a lot lower at some point in next 12 months.
    Assuming Biden even makes it to Iowa. I don't think I've ever seen a politician seem less like they're enjoying a campaign.
    If Biden or Trump wins 2020, then I should imagine the prospect of death in office rises in probability. Biden is even older than Trump so as the challenger ticket they will need a strong VP candidate. You dont think Biden will get the nomination but it is also true experts did not think Trump could achieve the nomination or the presidency.
    Trump's polling started strong and got stronger. Biden's polling has started strong and the declined.

    The situations are different.
This discussion has been closed.