ONE says it all David, how many more are there. Remember all those broken promises to Scottish shipyards, bit shorthanded apart from Admirals. They will bask in the American glory.
Problem with this is Brexit Party are not contesting most of these, so that surely gives Conservatives a higher vote than if they were included in the elections.
I know it's been said before, but a government of national unity is simply not going to happen. Those who think it might are arguing by what they want or think ought to happen - always a fatal mistake in political betting or forecasting. Where on earth could the support for such a government come from? Not from the ERG, Boris supporters or most Conservative MPs. Not from Corbyn and his circle and therefore the Labour Party as a whole, or from any more than a handful of Labour MPs. It just ain't gonna happen. If the next Tory leader loses a VONC, there will be an election.
I'm not so sure. When it's really mattered, four figures have got controversial votes won in the House of Commons against the Government: Yvette Cooper, Hilary Benn, Oliver Letwin, Dominic Grieve.
If the same people who've voted for their bills/motions so far are convinced that there is no other option, I can see one of those four getting the nod in extremis.
But those votes were very different to the idea that Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell would vote for a government led by Vince Cable or Ken Clarke or one of the four you mention. It's inconceivable, and equally inconceivable that all but a handful of Tory MPs would do so. Would you expect Boris and his supporters to join in?
No but I'd expect Philip Hammond and 20 or so Tory rebels when it came to it. Which would be enough - if we're in the stage where such a vote is conceivable, I don't share your conviction that Corbyn wouldn't throw the Labour movement behind it.
Maybe, however many will regard Johnson's duplicity as even more unacceptable than Corbyn's ideologically driven ineptitude. It is the perfect 'between a rock and a hard place' dilemma. And as to Ydoethur's earlier assertion that Ystradgynlais may be a hotbed of Faragistas, I am not convinced. It has a welsh language comprehensive school for goodness sake! Notional Labourites if they don't stay will go PC or LD, and for this by-election they will almost all go LD.
Agree. But for me and I suspect many others, to vote for anti-semite Corbyn would be, to use I suppose the appropriate term, beyond the pale.
Likewise, and I am of the faith, although under Corbyn very much lapsed. But Johnson personifies everything I detest about entitled Tories.
The dilema for many in an extreme political crisis will be between loyalty to party and best for the country. For many tens of thousands conservative and labour supporters the only choice would be the Lib Dems, as an extreme ERG led conservative party or the toxic Corbyn led labour party, would make the choice easy
I will not be voting Conservative at the next General Election for the first time since the 1987 election when I voted SDP. That is 7 GEs I have voted Conservative out of 8 in my adult life. I will not give support to a lying charlatan with zero genuine leadership skills, that thinks it is OK to damage the UK economy in pursuit of a puerile nationalist agenda to appease the politically and intellectually retarded.
The LDs are welcome to you
That is not a attitude that gets a party into government
But it might get the Lib Dems back into government. A Lib-Dem led government. This, of course, would be a very good thing indeed.
I know it's been said before, but a government of national unity is simply not going to happen. Those who think it might are arguing by what they want or think ought to happen - always a fatal mistake in political betting or forecasting. Where on earth could the support for such a government come from? Not from the ERG, Boris supporters or most Conservative MPs. Not from Corbyn and his circle and therefore the Labour Party as a whole, or from any more than a handful of Labour MPs. It just ain't gonna happen. If the next Tory leader loses a VONC, there will be an election.
I'm not so sure. When it's really mattered, four figures have got controversial votes won in the House of Commons against the Government: Yvette Cooper, Hilary Benn, Oliver Letwin, Dominic Grieve.
If the same people who've voted for their bills/motions so far are convinced that there is no other option, I can see one of those four getting the nod in extremis.
But those votes were very different to the idea that Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell would vote for a government led by Vince Cable or Ken Clarke or one of the four you mention. It's inconceivable, and equally inconceivable that all but a handful of Tory MPs would do so. Would you expect Boris and his supporters to join in?
Agreed. Especially when the alternative is a GE, and Labour, rightly or wrongly, fancy their chances.
I see May is still coming up with more stupid stuff before she leaves, with the announcement for an Office for Tackling* Injustices. Has that tw@t Timothy been advising her again?
* by tackling she means collate data that is already collected and analyzed by a range of other departments / Quangos.
Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve have only been able to win votes when they have been supported by Corbyn and the Labour Party.
Corbyn would whip against any but himself being made PM. Without Corbyn there can be no GONU. Corbyn can very easily say to Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve "if you want an extension you must back me to be Prime Minister and I will get one". He can veto anyone else becoming PM.
This is right, I think.
The essential calculus is -
If you want Remain you must swallow Corbyn as PM - either before or after a GE.
And if you want Corbyn as PM you must swallow Remain.
I know it's been said before, but a government of national unity is simply not going to happen. Those who think it might are arguing by what they want or think ought to happen - always a fatal mistake in political betting or forecasting. Where on earth could the support for such a government come from? Not from the ERG, Boris supporters or most Conservative MPs. Not from Corbyn and his circle and therefore the Labour Party as a whole, or from any more than a handful of Labour MPs. It just ain't gonna happen. If the next Tory leader loses a VONC, there will be an election.
I'm not so sure. When it's really mattered, four figures have got controversial votes won in the House of Commons against the Government: Yvette Cooper, Hilary Benn, Oliver Letwin, Dominic Grieve.
If the same people who've voted for their bills/motions so far are convinced that there is no other option, I can see one of those four getting the nod in extremis.
But those votes were very different to the idea that Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell would vote for a government led by Vince Cable or Ken Clarke or one of the four you mention. It's inconceivable, and equally inconceivable that all but a handful of Tory MPs would do so. Would you expect Boris and his supporters to join in?
No but I'd expect Philip Hammond and 20 or so Tory rebels when it came to it. Which would be enough - if we're in the stage where such a vote is conceivable, I don't share your conviction that Corbyn wouldn't throw the Labour movement behind it.
There is still one elephant in the room.
Under which circumstances or attached conditions would the EU offer a BJ led government an extension?
Anyone care to give odds on another extension offer from the EU. Or one with strings / one without strings?
I know it's been said before, but a government of national unity is simply not going to happen. Those who think it might are arguing by what they want or think ought to happen - always a fatal mistake in political betting or forecasting. Where on earth could the support for such a government come from? Not from the ERG, Boris supporters or most Conservative MPs. Not from Corbyn and his circle and therefore the Labour Party as a whole, or from any more than a handful of Labour MPs. It just ain't gonna happen. If the next Tory leader loses a VONC, there will be an election.
I'm not so sure. When it's really mattered, four figures have got controversial votes won in the House of Commons against the Government: Yvette Cooper, Hilary Benn, Oliver Letwin, Dominic Grieve.
If the same people who've voted for their bills/motions so far are convinced that there is no other option, I can see one of those four getting the nod in extremis.
But those votes were very different to the idea that Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell would vote for a government led by Vince Cable or Ken Clarke or one of the four you mention. It's inconceivable, and equally inconceivable that all but a handful of Tory MPs would do so. Would you expect Boris and his supporters to join in?
No but I'd expect Philip Hammond and 20 or so Tory rebels when it came to it. Which would be enough - if we're in the stage where such a vote is conceivable, I don't share your conviction that Corbyn wouldn't throw the Labour movement behind it.
I wonder if Mrs May will keep her own counsel, or enjoy tormenting her tormentors....
I see May is still coming up with more stupid stuff before she leaves, with the announcement for an Office for Tackling* Injustices. Has that tw@t Timothy been advising her again?
* by tackling she means collate data that is already collected and analyzed by a range of other departments / Quangos.
The ONS are not impressed. Retweeting their own Tweet from the other day:
Ah, but Malc's a Typical Tory doing down a Scottish built ship named after a Scottish duke......
LOL, one of the few built in Scotland and named after one of the biggest rogues ever. Montrose was a rank bad un responsible for giving Scotland away to line his own pockets. If naming a ship after that ar**hole is the best the Tories can do is it any wonder the union is breaking up.
I see May is still coming up with more stupid stuff before she leaves, with the announcement for an Office for Tackling* Injustices. Has that tw@t Timothy been advising her again?
* by tackling she means collate data that is already collected and analyzed by a range of other departments / Quangos.
Under which circumstances or attached conditions would the EU offer a BJ led government an extension?
Anyone care to give odds on another extension offer from the EU. Or one with strings / one without strings?
Although it's not a given, I think that in practice the EU would agree to an extension, effectively without strings although they'd huff and puff a bit. The UK crashing out in chaos would be a major headache for them, even if only because of the Irish issue. Kicking the can even further down the long road in the hope something might turn up is always preferable to and politically easier than accepting an immediate crisis.
I know it's been said before, but a government of national unity is simply not going to happen. Those who think it might are arguing by what they want or think ought to happen - always a fatal mistake in political betting or forecasting. Where on earth could the support for such a government come from? Not from the ERG, Boris supporters or most Conservative MPs. Not from Corbyn and his circle and therefore the Labour Party as a whole, or from any more than a handful of Labour MPs. It just ain't gonna happen. If the next Tory leader loses a VONC, there will be an election.
I'm not so sure. When it's really mattered, four figures have got controversial votes won in the House of Commons against the Government: Yvette Cooper, Hilary Benn, Oliver Letwin, Dominic Grieve.
If the same people who've voted for their bills/motions so far are convinced that there is no other option, I can see one of those four getting the nod in extremis.
But those votes were very different to the idea that Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell would vote for a government led by Vince Cable or Ken Clarke or one of the four you mention. It's inconceivable, and equally inconceivable that all but a handful of Tory MPs would do so. Would you expect Boris and his supporters to join in?
No but I'd expect Philip Hammond and 20 or so Tory rebels when it came to it. Which would be enough - if we're in the stage where such a vote is conceivable, I don't share your conviction that Corbyn wouldn't throw the Labour movement behind it.
Corbyn would throw the Labour movement ahead of it. He can offer to get an extension if he is PM while vetoing anybody else from becoming PM. If Hammond wants an extension he will face a Sophie's Choice scenario: Reject the offer of an extension, or accept an extension with the price being Corbyn in Downing Street.
Corbyn has nothing to lose and everything to gain.
It will take over 300 MPs to vote to give Confidence to a new government and without either the backing of Labour or the Tories that is going to take an immense number of defections.
True I forgot Labour. But also could you please assist me with the explicit declaration from *pauses to see who is leader, oh yes" Jeremy Corbyn which states that Labour are the party of Remain.
Thanking you in advance, etc.
There will be no ringing declaration from JC that "We are the party of Remain!"
However, the reality of it -
Labour win an October election (say). Or any election before 'B' is delivered.
The most surprising thing for me on the recent kafuffle in the Strait of Hormuz is that the Iranians managed to find a British-flagged civilian vessel to harass. I'd thought the vast majority of merchant ships had pi**ed off to the flags of convenience scam.
Having looked into it though, we're tenth in terms of tonnage, with about 1,500 ships. Still well behind that great country of trade, Panama, though.
Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve have only been able to win votes when they have been supported by Corbyn and the Labour Party.
Corbyn would whip against any but himself being made PM. Without Corbyn there can be no GONU. Corbyn can very easily say to Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve "if you want an extension you must back me to be Prime Minister and I will get one". He can veto anyone else becoming PM.
This is right, I think.
The essential calculus is -
If you want Remain you must swallow Corbyn as PM - either before or after a GE.
And if you want Corbyn as PM you must swallow Remain.
Labour's official policy is that if Corbyn is PM, they're pro Leave.
The first bit is probably true, unless the Lib Dems somehow overtake them in seat numbers following a GE.
Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve have only been able to win votes when they have been supported by Corbyn and the Labour Party.
Corbyn would whip against any but himself being made PM. Without Corbyn there can be no GONU. Corbyn can very easily say to Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve "if you want an extension you must back me to be Prime Minister and I will get one". He can veto anyone else becoming PM.
This is right, I think.
The essential calculus is -
If you want Remain you must swallow Corbyn as PM - either before or after a GE.
And if you want Corbyn as PM you must swallow Remain.
I don't believe for a moment that a Corbyn-led Labour party would be genuine about Remain.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
I seem to recall the Country's credit rating was also downgraded. Maybe it will be restored once we Brexit!
Unlikely, if anything it will get worse especially when the economy tanks.
All these cheerleaders and flag wavers for a no deal Brexit have not got a clue about the harm and damage their reckless xenophobia is going to cause this once great nation. They probably don't care either.
The most surprising thing for me on the recent kafuffle in the Strait of Hormuz is that the Iranians managed to find a British-flagged civilian vessel to harass. I'd thought the vast majority of merchant ships had pi**ed off to the flags of convenience scam.
Having looked into it though, we're tenth in terms of tonnage, with about 1,500 ships. Still well behind that great country of trade, Panama, though.
I think the problem in the not-so-impartial analysis of HYUFD is an assumption that Brexit Party takes more votes form Conservative based upon opinion polls. In practice the LDs are a proper party with infrastructure and data, and experience of fighting elections. In a real world scenario with FPTP it is possible that the LDs are a much bigger threat to the Tories than the Faragists, and said Faragists will almost certainly split the right wing vote and hand back seats that used to be LD.
I see May is still coming up with more stupid stuff before she leaves, with the announcement for an Office for Tackling* Injustices. Has that tw@t Timothy been advising her again?
* by tackling she means collate data that is already collected and analyzed by a range of other departments / Quangos.
It is sad that her desperate search for a legacy is a mirror of her time as PM: failure and weakness. She should just stop. Nobody will remember or thank her for this.
True I forgot Labour. But also could you please assist me with the explicit declaration from *pauses to see who is leader, oh yes" Jeremy Corbyn which states that Labour are the party of Remain.
Thanking you in advance, etc.
There will be no ringing declaration from JC that "We are the party of Remain!"
However, the reality of it -
Labour win an October election (say). Or any election before 'B' is delivered.
Is 'B' now as good as dead?
Yes. Yes it is.
Until Corbyn leaves or is deposed Labour will continue to be the party of fence sitters. The party of Remain will continue to be the LDs
True I forgot Labour. But also could you please assist me with the explicit declaration from *pauses to see who is leader, oh yes" Jeremy Corbyn which states that Labour are the party of Remain.
Thanking you in advance, etc.
There will be no ringing declaration from JC that "We are the party of Remain!"
However, the reality of it -
Labour win an October election (say). Or any election before 'B' is delivered.
Is 'B' now as good as dead?
Yes. Yes it is.
BoJo's plan (prorogue, B, GE) means that by the time Jezza walks through the door of No.10, we will have B'd. How are you left then?
The most surprising thing for me on the recent kafuffle in the Strait of Hormuz is that the Iranians managed to find a British-flagged civilian vessel to harass. I'd thought the vast majority of merchant ships had pi**ed off to the flags of convenience scam.
Having looked into it though, we're tenth in terms of tonnage, with about 1,500 ships. Still well behind that great country of trade, Panama, though.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
Ah, but Malc's a Typical Tory doing down a Scottish built ship named after a Scottish duke......
LOL, one of the few built in Scotland and named after one of the biggest rogues ever. Montrose was a rank bad un responsible for giving Scotland away to line his own pockets. If naming a ship after that ar**hole is the best the Tories can do is it any wonder the union is breaking up.
Are you thinking of the Duke of Montrose or the Marquess? I think that the latter was a remarkable soldier who lived in very complicated times.
I know it's been said before, but a government of national unity is simply not going to happen. Those who think it might are arguing by what they want or think ought to happen - always a fatal mistake in political betting or forecasting. Where on earth could the support for such a government come from? Not from the ERG, Boris supporters or most Conservative MPs. Not from Corbyn and his circle and therefore the Labour Party as a whole, or from any more than a handful of Labour MPs. It just ain't gonna happen. If the next Tory leader loses a VONC, there will be an election.
I'm not so sure. When it's really mattered, four figures have got controversial votes won in the House of Commons against the Government: Yvette Cooper, Hilary Benn, Oliver Letwin, Dominic Grieve.
If the same people who've voted for their bills/motions so far are convinced that there is no other option, I can see one of those four getting the nod in extremis.
But those votes were very different to the idea that Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell would vote for a government led by Vince Cable or Ken Clarke or one of the four you mention. It's inconceivable, and equally inconceivable that all but a handful of Tory MPs would do so. Would you expect Boris and his supporters to join in?
Exactly! I've been making the exact same point.
Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve have only been able to win votes when they have been supported by Corbyn and the Labour Party.
Corbyn would whip against any but himself being made PM. Without Corbyn there can be no GONU. Corbyn can very easily say to Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve "if you want an extension you must back me to be Prime Minister and I will get one". He can veto anyone else becoming PM.
If Corbyn does take that path they will score sub 20% in a GE, possibly closer to 10%.
The most surprising thing for me on the recent kafuffle in the Strait of Hormuz is that the Iranians managed to find a British-flagged civilian vessel to harass. I'd thought the vast majority of merchant ships had pi**ed off to the flags of convenience scam.
Having looked into it though, we're tenth in terms of tonnage, with about 1,500 ships. Still well behind that great country of trade, Panama, though.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
I see May is still coming up with more stupid stuff before she leaves, with the announcement for an Office for Tackling* Injustices. Has that tw@t Timothy been advising her again?
* by tackling she means collate data that is already collected and analyzed by a range of other departments / Quangos.
The ONS are not impressed. Retweeting their own Tweet from the other day:
I don't believe for a moment that a Corbyn-led Labour party would be genuine about Remain.
I am close to certain you are wrong about that - if you mean they will in practice deliver Brexit rather than cancel it following Ref2.
If there is a pre Brexit GE the manifesto will promise Ref2 with Remain as an option and I am sure this will be honoured if they win. When the Ref duly happens it is inconceivable that the vast bulk of the party will not then campaign for Remain - which will walk it.
I think you are giving too much weight to 'We all know Jezza and Seumus hate the EU' and too little to the stated policy, the obvious direction of travel, and the clear and overwhelming majority Remain position of Labour MPs and the membership.
I think the problem in the not-so-impartial analysis of HYUFD is an assumption that Brexit Party takes more votes form Conservative based upon opinion polls. In practice the LDs are a proper party with infrastructure and data, and experience of fighting elections. In a real world scenario with FPTP it is possible that the LDs are a much bigger threat to the Tories than the Faragists, and said Faragists will almost certainly split the right wing vote and hand back seats that used to be LD.
HYUFD does not seem to understand the power of incumbancy, local party machines, enduring party loyalty/ branding, the constraints of targeting seats and the power of data. HYUFD is a pleasant poster but niave to the extreame to how FPTP elections work and the power the Brexit supporting media has to channel votes i.e. BP in a PR euro election.
I know it's been said before, but a government of national unity is simply not going to happen. Those who think it might are arguing by what they want or think ought to happen - always a fatal mistake in political betting or forecasting. Where on earth could the support for such a government come from? Not from the ERG, Boris supporters or most Conservative MPs. Not from Corbyn and his circle and therefore the Labour Party as a whole, or from any more than a handful of Labour MPs. It just ain't gonna happen. If the next Tory leader loses a VONC, there will be an election.
I'm not so sure. When it's really mattered, four figures have got controversial votes won in the House of Commons against the Government: Yvette Cooper, Hilary Benn, Oliver Letwin, Dominic Grieve.
If the same people who've voted for their bills/motions so far are convinced that there is no other option, I can see one of those four getting the nod in extremis.
But those votes were very different to the idea that Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell would vote for a government led by Vince Cable or Ken Clarke or one of the four you mention. It's inconceivable, and equally inconceivable that all but a handful of Tory MPs would do so. Would you expect Boris and his supporters to join in?
Exactly! I've been making the exact same point.
Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve have only been able to win votes when they have been supported by Corbyn and the Labour Party.
Corbyn would whip against any but himself being made PM. Without Corbyn there can be no GONU. Corbyn can very easily say to Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve "if you want an extension you must back me to be Prime Minister and I will get one". He can veto anyone else becoming PM.
If Corbyn does take that path they will score sub 20% in a GE, possibly closer to 10%.
If Corbyn takes that path and becomes PM he can probably win an Autumn 1974 style election victory afterwards, since so many of his opponents even will have united behind him to say that he be made PM which neuters any talk of extremism.
Grieve and co will have no choice but to make him PM or vote for a hard Tory Brexit with him as opposition leader waiting in the wings shouting loudly how he wants an extension.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
What on earth are you on about? All products bought from Europe are now 30% more expensive. All foreign holidays in Europe are now 30% more expensive.
Under which circumstances or attached conditions would the EU offer a BJ led government an extension?
Anyone care to give odds on another extension offer from the EU. Or one with strings / one without strings?
Although it's not a given, I think that in practice the EU would agree to an extension, effectively without strings although they'd huff and puff a bit. The UK crashing out in chaos would be a major headache for them, even if only because of the Irish issue. Kicking the can even further down the long road in the hope something might turn up is always preferable to and politically easier than accepting an immediate crisis.
Yes I agree there. If they want to be really awkward they can extend to 1st April 2024 or whenever the Euro parliament term ends. Refusing an extension guarantees a chaotic no deal, and guarantees them the blame.
I know it's been said before, but a government of national unity is simply not going to happen. Those who think it might are arguing by what they want or think ought to happen - always a fatal mistake in political betting or forecasting. Where on earth could the support for such a government come from? Not from the ERG, Boris supporters or most Conservative MPs. Not from Corbyn and his circle and therefore the Labour Party as a whole, or from any more than a handful of Labour MPs. It just ain't gonna happen. If the next Tory leader loses a VONC, there will be an election.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
What on earth are you on about? All products bought from Europe are now 30% more expensive. All foreign holidays in Europe are now 30% more expensive.
I already feel poorer as a result. Significantly.
What are you talking about? The inflation rate in the UK at the minute is 2.0% - EXACTLY the Target Rate for inflation. Not 30%.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
It's made me poorer as my pension is down considerably as a direct result. Anyone who's been on a holiday in a EU country has also been directly affected.
Does Ms Truss think Mrs May gives a flying fiddle for what she thinks?
I dont follow the logic. There is a vacancy now therefore the PM now has an absolute right to make an appointment now, I would have thought. While we all know the PM will be changing soon why should an important ambassador ship wait until then? Especially as the decision is surely not one that will be decided based on petty politics .
I know it's been said before, but a government of national unity is simply not going to happen. Those who think it might are arguing by what they want or think ought to happen - always a fatal mistake in political betting or forecasting. Where on earth could the support for such a government come from? Not from the ERG, Boris supporters or most Conservative MPs. Not from Corbyn and his circle and therefore the Labour Party as a whole, or from any more than a handful of Labour MPs. It just ain't gonna happen. If the next Tory leader loses a VONC, there will be an election.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
It's made me poorer as my pension is down considerably as a direct result. Anyone who's been on a holiday in a EU country has also been directly affected.
So for a few days of a year when you have a holiday things are a bit more expensive but overall UK inflation is 2.0%. We've had higher inflation than that almost all of my life. Almost all of almost all of our lives I suspect.
Does Ms Truss think Mrs May gives a flying fiddle for what she thinks?
I dont follow the logic. There is a vacancy now therefore the PM now has an absolute right to make an appointment now, I would have thought. While we all know the PM will be changing soon why should an important ambassador ship wait until then? Especially as the decision is surely not one that will be decided based on petty politics .
I know it's been said before, but a government of national unity is simply not going to happen. Those who think it might are arguing by what they want or think ought to happen - always a fatal mistake in political betting or forecasting. Where on earth could the support for such a government come from? Not from the ERG, Boris supporters or most Conservative MPs. Not from Corbyn and his circle and therefore the Labour Party as a whole, or from any more than a handful of Labour MPs. It just ain't gonna happen. If the next Tory leader loses a VONC, there will be an election.
I'm not so sure. When it's really mattered, four figures have got controversial votes won in the House of Commons against the Government: Yvette Cooper, Hilary Benn, Oliver Letwin, Dominic Grieve.
If the same people who've voted for their bills/motions so far are convinced that there is no other option, I can see one of those four getting the nod in extremis.
But those votes were very different to the idea that Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell would vote for a government led by Vince Cable or Ken Clarke or one of the four you mention. It's inconceivable, and equally inconceivable that all but a handful of Tory MPs would do so. Would you expect Boris and his supporters to join in?
No but I'd expect Philip Hammond and 20 or so Tory rebels when it came to it. Which would be enough - if we're in the stage where such a vote is conceivable, I don't share your conviction that Corbyn wouldn't throw the Labour movement behind it.
Corbyn would throw the Labour movement ahead of it. He can offer to get an extension if he is PM while vetoing anybody else from becoming PM. If Hammond wants an extension he will face a Sophie's Choice scenario: Reject the offer of an extension, or accept an extension with the price being Corbyn in Downing Street.
Corbyn has nothing to lose and everything to gain.
It will take over 300 MPs to vote to give Confidence to a new government and without either the backing of Labour or the Tories that is going to take an immense number of defections.
This is an important point - and none of us discussing it are Labour supporters to my knowledge. So Labour posters only - if there's a VONC but a GE takes us past Oct 31st, does Corbyn vote down any GONU which he doesn't lead in the interests of stopping no deal? Or could he support another who could get a majority?
Momentum could be the trigger for Watson to finally make a move?
He'd lose. I think the Tigger exodus smoked out any who are prepared to make a move that us not internal obstruction. Watson is daring action to be made against him as he doesnt want to make a move I think.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
What on earth are you on about? All products bought from Europe are now 30% more expensive. All foreign holidays in Europe are now 30% more expensive.
I already feel poorer as a result. Significantly.
That's rubbish. I don't know about holidays as I haven't had time for one this year but certainly products from Europe are no where near 30% more expensive.
Does Ms Truss think Mrs May gives a flying fiddle for what she thinks?
I dont follow the logic. There is a vacancy now therefore the PM now has an absolute right to make an appointment now, I would have thought. While we all know the PM will be changing soon why should an important ambassador ship wait until then? Especially as the decision is surely not one that will be decided based on petty politics .
The logic is the words used: "The Permanent Secretary at the Foreign Office has been clear that this is a job that is going to take months rather than weeks to recruit for."
Considering we have a new PM due in less than a fortnight and this post should take months to fill there simply isn't time for May to fill the role. Unless she goes through an expedited process against the advice of the Permanent Secretary at the Foreign Office.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
What on earth are you on about? All products bought from Europe are now 30% more expensive. All foreign holidays in Europe are now 30% more expensive.
I already feel poorer as a result. Significantly.
That's rubbish. I don't know about holidays as I haven't had time for one this year but certainly products from Europe are no where near 30% more expensive.
Even if the end consumer is not paying 30% more, somebody is.
I know it's been said before, but a government of national unity is simply not going to happen. Those who think it might are arguing by what they want or think ought to happen - always a fatal mistake in political betting or forecasting. Where on earth could the support for such a government come from? Not from the ERG, Boris supporters or most Conservative MPs. Not from Corbyn and his circle and therefore the Labour Party as a whole, or from any more than a handful of Labour MPs. It just ain't gonna happen. If the next Tory leader loses a VONC, there will be an election.
I'm not so sure. When it's really mattered, four figures have got controversial votes won in the House of Commons against the Government: Yvette Cooper, Hilary Benn, Oliver Letwin, Dominic Grieve.
If the same people who've voted for their bills/motions so far are convinced that there is no other option, I can see one of those four getting the nod in extremis.
But those votes were very different to the idea that Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell would vote for a government led by Vince Cable or Ken Clarke or one of the four you mention. It's inconceivable, and equally inconceivable that all but a handful of Tory MPs would do so. Would you expect Boris and his supporters to join in?
No but I'd expect Philip Hammond and 20 or so Tory rebels when it came to it. Which would be enough - if we're in the stage where such a vote is conceivable, I don't share your conviction that Corbyn wouldn't throw the Labour movement behind it.
Corbyn would throw the Labour movement ahead of it. He can offer to get an extension if he is PM while vetoing anybody else from becoming PM. If Hammond wants an extension he will face a Sophie's Choice scenario: Reject the offer of an extension, or accept an extension with the price being Corbyn in Downing Street.
Corbyn has nothing to lose and everything to gain.
It will take over 300 MPs to vote to give Confidence to a new government and without either the backing of Labour or the Tories that is going to take an immense number of defections.
This is an important point - and none of us discussing it are Labour supporters to my knowledge. So Labour posters only - if there's a VONC but a GE takes us past Oct 31st, does Corbyn vote down any GONU which he doesn't lead in the interests of stopping no deal? Or could he support another who could get a majority?
Or does he put himself forward as the head of a GONU to bring in an extension then go to the polls?
The most surprising thing for me on the recent kafuffle in the Strait of Hormuz is that the Iranians managed to find a British-flagged civilian vessel to harass. I'd thought the vast majority of merchant ships had pi**ed off to the flags of convenience scam.
Having looked into it though, we're tenth in terms of tonnage, with about 1,500 ships. Still well behind that great country of trade, Panama, though.
Thanks, that's pretty conclusive! I assume that there must be (beneficial) tax implications for an IoM registry?
I've absolutely no idea, although assume so. As I recall, the ITF weren't too bothered about such things: it's the egregious nature of many of the FOC countries and systems that they campaign against.
Ah, but Malc's a Typical Tory doing down a Scottish built ship named after a Scottish duke......
LOL, one of the few built in Scotland and named after one of the biggest rogues ever. Montrose was a rank bad un responsible for giving Scotland away to line his own pockets. If naming a ship after that ar**hole is the best the Tories can do is it any wonder the union is breaking up.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
What on earth are you on about? All products bought from Europe are now 30% more expensive. All foreign holidays in Europe are now 30% more expensive.
I already feel poorer as a result. Significantly.
That's rubbish. I don't know about holidays as I haven't had time for one this year but certainly products from Europe are no where near 30% more expensive.
Even if the end consumer is not paying 30% more, somebody is.
The end user is paying 2% more. Which is exactly what we target.
Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve have only been able to win votes when they have been supported by Corbyn and the Labour Party.
Corbyn would whip against any but himself being made PM. Without Corbyn there can be no GONU. Corbyn can very easily say to Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve "if you want an extension you must back me to be Prime Minister and I will get one". He can veto anyone else becoming PM.
This is right, I think.
The essential calculus is -
If you want Remain you must swallow Corbyn as PM - either before or after a GE.
And if you want Corbyn as PM you must swallow Remain.
I don't believe for a moment that a Corbyn-led Labour party would be genuine about Remain.
Corbyn won’t win an election Johnson won’t win an election the GoNU will come after an election brought about by aVONC and then the parties can layout the policies and we will see what happens.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
What on earth are you on about? All products bought from Europe are now 30% more expensive. All foreign holidays in Europe are now 30% more expensive.
I already feel poorer as a result. Significantly.
That's rubbish. I don't know about holidays as I haven't had time for one this year but certainly products from Europe are no where near 30% more expensive.
Even if the end consumer is not paying 30% more, somebody is.
The end user is paying 2% more. Which is exactly what we target.
If products are priced in Euros, we have to pay 30% more Sterling for the same thing. What part of that do you fail to understand?
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
What on earth are you on about? All products bought from Europe are now 30% more expensive. All foreign holidays in Europe are now 30% more expensive.
I already feel poorer as a result. Significantly.
That's rubbish. I don't know about holidays as I haven't had time for one this year but certainly products from Europe are no where near 30% more expensive.
Depends what the product is you are talking about! I think to be fair you need a basket of goods rather than individual items. I have noticed goods rocket in price since 2016 and have stopped buying them as a result but some of these products are uk made under licience.
I know it's been said before, but a government of national unity is simply not going to happen. Those who think it might are arguing by what they want or think ought to happen - always a fatal mistake in political betting or forecasting. Where on earth could the support for such a government come from? Not from the ERG, Boris supporters or most Conservative MPs. Not from Corbyn and his circle and therefore the Labour Party as a whole, or from any more than a handful of Labour MPs. It just ain't gonna happen. If the next Tory leader loses a VONC, there will be an election.
I'm unsure it's simply 'partisan wishful thinking'. Journalists want stories, and Boris-is-going-to-win-big isn't much of a story. Much better to pretend that Hunt has a chance - or play up when he does well - to generate airtime and column inches in what might otherwise be a stupefyingly boring coronation.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
What on earth are you on about? All products bought from Europe are now 30% more expensive. All foreign holidays in Europe are now 30% more expensive.
I already feel poorer as a result. Significantly.
That's rubbish. I don't know about holidays as I haven't had time for one this year but certainly products from Europe are no where near 30% more expensive.
Even if the end consumer is not paying 30% more, somebody is.
The end user is paying 2% more. Which is exactly what we target.
If products are priced in Euros, we have to pay 30% more Sterling for the same thing. What part of that do you fail to understand?
Products aren't priced in Euros. Consumers get paid in Sterling and buy goods in shops priced in Sterling.
We measure the change in these prices and the change is 2.0% not 30%. What part of that do you fail to understand?
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
What on earth are you on about? All products bought from Europe are now 30% more expensive. All foreign holidays in Europe are now 30% more expensive.
I already feel poorer as a result. Significantly.
That's rubbish. I don't know about holidays as I haven't had time for one this year but certainly products from Europe are no where near 30% more expensive.
Even if the end consumer is not paying 30% more, somebody is.
So your comment that you as a consumer feel poorer was false then.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
What on earth are you on about? All products bought from Europe are now 30% more expensive. All foreign holidays in Europe are now 30% more expensive.
I already feel poorer as a result. Significantly.
That's rubbish. I don't know about holidays as I haven't had time for one this year but certainly products from Europe are no where near 30% more expensive.
Even if the end consumer is not paying 30% more, somebody is.
So your comment that you as a consumer feel poorer was false then.
No. I said overall we are poorer and that I personally feel significantly poorer.
I wonder how many Tory MPs would vote for a General Election in the immediate aftermath of a no deal exit? Johnson might struggle to pass it even with Labour votes!
Brexit will have been delivered which is the main task for Boris
How do you think the hundreds of thousands of people who lose their jobs as a result of this nonsense will vote for the next decade or two?
More Tory than with no Brexit
Are you seriously saying that those who actually lose their jobs due to no deal will on balance vote Tory in future than if we hadn’t left? Or are you saying the collateral damage to the Tory party of lost jobs is worth it if more people will continue to vote Tory?
HYUFD is saying he doesn’t care what happens to individuals, their families, their communities and the country, just as long as the Tories win. He supports a football team that plays in blue.
Whilst true, you might be missing the point. There are precedents for a Conservative Government adopting policies which are extremely damaging and are later reversed. But Thatcher was in office for twelve years and Major seven after that. It is entirely possible for a malevolent government to take office and keep it provided it can get enough of the other voters to vote for it. @Hyfud's point may be unpleasant but it may also be true.
Of course, if there was an opposition that cared about the voters rather than its own obsessions, things may have been different. But they don't and it isn't.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
What on earth are you on about? All products bought from Europe are now 30% more expensive. All foreign holidays in Europe are now 30% more expensive.
I already feel poorer as a result. Significantly.
That's rubbish. I don't know about holidays as I haven't had time for one this year but certainly products from Europe are no where near 30% more expensive.
Even if the end consumer is not paying 30% more, somebody is.
The end user is paying 2% more. Which is exactly what we target.
If products are priced in Euros, we have to pay 30% more Sterling for the same thing. What part of that do you fail to understand?
Products aren't priced in Euros. Consumers get paid in Sterling and buy goods in shops priced in Sterling.
We measure the change in these prices and the change is 2.0% not 30%. What part of that do you fail to understand?
Have you seen Apple’s Sterling denominated prices recently?
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
What on earth are you on about? All products bought from Europe are now 30% more expensive. All foreign holidays in Europe are now 30% more expensive.
I already feel poorer as a result. Significantly.
That's rubbish. I don't know about holidays as I haven't had time for one this year but certainly products from Europe are no where near 30% more expensive.
Depends what the product is you are talking about! I think to be fair you need a basket of goods rather than individual items. I have noticed goods rocket in price since 2016 and have stopped buying them as a result but some of these products are uk made under licience.
Gee what a great idea!
Lets get a basket of goods, and compare the prices of them one year to what those prices were a year ago. We should get a balanced basket of goods and keep an eye on that. What a fantastic way to measure the change of prices, why has nobody thought of that before?
Does Ms Truss think Mrs May gives a flying fiddle for what she thinks?
I dont follow the logic. There is a vacancy now therefore the PM now has an absolute right to make an appointment now, I would have thought. While we all know the PM will be changing soon why should an important ambassador ship wait until then? Especially as the decision is surely not one that will be decided based on petty politics .
Because May is a caretaker party leader and PM with a role to keep things going for just 10 more days now pending the announcement of her successor. Decisions of political consequence that will bind the hands of her successor in the long term must be avoided.
Whenever caretaker leaders try and step beyond their role and instigate changes of political import there is usually trouble. Do you recall the time in 2016 when as acting Labour leader Harriet Harman tried to take forward a review to change Labour's approach to welfare benefits to the discomfort of other Shadow Cabinet members? Andy Burnham considered resigning but did not, paving the way for Corbyn's election as leader.
This might lose Trump the WH. Kentucky and W Virginia amongst states who have insured most previously uninsured voters.
"the 2020 election will be another referendum on health care. If you’re an American who suffers from a pre-existing condition, or doesn’t have a job that comes with health benefits, you should know that if Trump is re-elected, he will, one way or another, take away your health insurance."
Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve have only been able to win votes when they have been supported by Corbyn and the Labour Party.
Corbyn would whip against any but himself being made PM. Without Corbyn there can be no GONU. Corbyn can very easily say to Cooper, Benn, Letwin and Grieve "if you want an extension you must back me to be Prime Minister and I will get one". He can veto anyone else becoming PM.
This is right, I think.
The essential calculus is -
If you want Remain you must swallow Corbyn as PM - either before or after a GE.
And if you want Corbyn as PM you must swallow Remain.
I don't believe for a moment that a Corbyn-led Labour party would be genuine about Remain.
Corbyn won’t win an election Johnson won’t win an election the GoNU will come after an election brought about by aVONC and then the parties can layout the policies and we will see what happens.
I have long felt we need a National Government(like in the 1930s) to sort everything out.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
It's made me poorer as my pension is down considerably as a direct result. Anyone who's been on a holiday in a EU country has also been directly affected.
Lower exchange rates boosts UK companies overseas earnings. So the vast majority of UK citizens will have seen a rise in the value of their pension pot, or the funds backing them for those lucky enough to be on DB pensions.
Does Ms Truss think Mrs May gives a flying fiddle for what she thinks?
I dont follow the logic. There is a vacancy now therefore the PM now has an absolute right to make an appointment now, I would have thought. While we all know the PM will be changing soon why should an important ambassador ship wait until then? Especially as the decision is surely not one that will be decided based on petty politics .
Because May is a caretaker party leader and PM with a role to keep things going for just 10 more days now pending the announcement of her successor. Decisions of political consequence that will bind the hands of her successor in the long term must be avoided.
Whenever caretaker leaders try and step beyond their role and instigate changes of political import there is usually trouble. Do you recall the time in 2016 when as acting Labour leader Harriet Harman tried to take forward a review to change Labour's approach to welfare benefits to the discomfort of other Shadow Cabinet members? Andy Burnham considered resigning but did not, paving the way for Corbyn's election as leader.
Telegraph:
"Although a Downing Street spokesman would only confirm that Sir Kim Darroch’s replacement would be announced “in due course”, Sir Alan Duncan admitted: “We do really want to make sure we get the very best person and I think it'd be a pity if in the interests of alacrity we chose a number two rather than a number one.” "
I know it's been said before, but a government of national unity is simply not going to happen. Those who think it might are arguing by what they want or think ought to happen - always a fatal mistake in political betting or forecasting. Where on earth could the support for such a government come from? Not from the ERG, Boris supporters or most Conservative MPs. Not from Corbyn and his circle and therefore the Labour Party as a whole, or from any more than a handful of Labour MPs. It just ain't gonna happen. If the next Tory leader loses a VONC, there will be an election.
Have there been many political correspondents saying Boris, bar a major fuckup coming to light, might not win? I got the impression that most (in some cases regretfully) expected him to.
Does Ms Truss think Mrs May gives a flying fiddle for what she thinks?
I dont follow the logic. There is a vacancy now therefore the PM now has an absolute right to make an appointment now, I would have thought. While we all know the PM will be changing soon why should an important ambassador ship wait until then? Especially as the decision is surely not one that will be decided based on petty politics .
The logic is the words used: "The Permanent Secretary at the Foreign Office has been clear that this is a job that is going to take months rather than weeks to recruit for."
In evidence to MPs he said that was the “standard process” but of course the Washington post could be filled by a “bespoke process”.
If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?
Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
Yes it has and exports have risen, inflation has remained under control and the sky hasn't fallen.
Change isn't bad.
Depends on what the change is.
Precisely. Good changes can be good, bad changes can be bad and some changes can be bad or good depending upon the circumstances.
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
So you think that reducing the value of Sterling is a good thing? Despite @rcs1000 already explaining to you that this has very little impact on our balance of trade/imports/exports?
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
Except it hasn't made us poorer, inflation remains low and under control. Of course its not a panacea and hasn't fixed the balance of trade, but it has had an impact just as its had a [very small] impact on inflation.
What on earth are you on about? All products bought from Europe are now 30% more expensive. All foreign holidays in Europe are now 30% more expensive.
I already feel poorer as a result. Significantly.
That's rubbish. I don't know about holidays as I haven't had time for one this year but certainly products from Europe are no where near 30% more expensive.
Even if the end consumer is not paying 30% more, somebody is.
So your comment that you as a consumer feel poorer was false then.
No. I said overall we are poorer and that I personally feel significantly poorer.
So just saying stuff for effect then without any basis in fact. Glad we cleared that up.
Comments
Especially when the alternative is a GE, and Labour, rightly or wrongly, fancy their chances.
* by tackling she means collate data that is already collected and analyzed by a range of other departments / Quangos.
The essential calculus is -
If you want Remain you must swallow Corbyn as PM - either before or after a GE.
And if you want Corbyn as PM you must swallow Remain.
Under which circumstances or attached conditions would the EU offer a BJ led government an extension?
Anyone care to give odds on another extension offer from the EU. Or one with strings / one without strings?
I think we all agree that the sky will not fall.
https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1149566603727495168
If naming a ship after that ar**hole is the best the Tories can do is it any wonder the union is breaking up.
https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1149630732400304128
Does Ms Truss think Mrs May gives a flying fiddle for what she thinks?
Corbyn has nothing to lose and everything to gain.
It will take over 300 MPs to vote to give Confidence to a new government and without either the backing of Labour or the Tories that is going to take an immense number of defections.
However, the reality of it -
Labour win an October election (say). Or any election before 'B' is delivered.
Is 'B' now as good as dead?
Yes. Yes it is.
Having looked into it though, we're tenth in terms of tonnage, with about 1,500 ships. Still well behind that great country of trade, Panama, though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_merchant_navy_capacity_by_country
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2108rank.html
The first bit is probably true, unless the Lib Dems somehow overtake them in seat numbers following a GE.
Change isn't bad.
All these cheerleaders and flag wavers for a no deal Brexit have not got a clue about the harm and damage their reckless xenophobia is going to cause this once great nation. They probably don't care either.
Still, blue passports eh.
A lit of foc countries from an org I dud some work for:
https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/List_of_flags_of_convenience.html
If nothing ever changes you end up stagnant.
All it has done is made us all poorer. Cheers.
If there is a pre Brexit GE the manifesto will promise Ref2 with Remain as an option and I am sure this will be honoured if they win. When the Ref duly happens it is inconceivable that the vast bulk of the party will not then campaign for Remain - which will walk it.
I think you are giving too much weight to 'We all know Jezza and Seumus hate the EU' and too little to the stated policy, the obvious direction of travel, and the clear and overwhelming majority Remain position of Labour MPs and the membership.
Exclusive: Momentum announces drive to help Labour members deselect MPs
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/12/momentum-drive-labour-members-deselect-mps?CMP=share_btn_tw
Grieve and co will have no choice but to make him PM or vote for a hard Tory Brexit with him as opposition leader waiting in the wings shouting loudly how he wants an extension.
I already feel poorer as a result. Significantly.
Marxists, Communists, Socialilst Work Party entryists....
https://twitter.com/allisonpearson/status/1149240800628359173
https://twitter.com/RachelVMartin/status/1149028457206165504
Like this -
Negotiate a (very) soft Brexit. Which means the WA as is, plus the PD amended for permanent CU and SM. Will not take long to do that.
Ref2 on this versus Remain. PM allows Labour campaigning on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent. Most campaign for Remain.
The Leave campaign is insipid since the Leave option is not 'proper Leave'. It's a fix!
Remain wins 60/40 minimum.
Considering we have a new PM due in less than a fortnight and this post should take months to fill there simply isn't time for May to fill the role. Unless she goes through an expedited process against the advice of the Permanent Secretary at the Foreign Office.
https://www.itfglobal.org/en/sector/seafarers/flags-of-convenience
We measure the change in these prices and the change is 2.0% not 30%. What part of that do you fail to understand?
Yes it’s bloody marvelous when ones income falls by 30% and may well fall further.
Of course, if there was an opposition that cared about the voters rather than its own obsessions, things may have been different. But they don't and it isn't.
Lets get a basket of goods, and compare the prices of them one year to what those prices were a year ago. We should get a balanced basket of goods and keep an eye on that. What a fantastic way to measure the change of prices, why has nobody thought of that before?
Whenever caretaker leaders try and step beyond their role and instigate changes of political import there is usually trouble. Do you recall the time in 2016 when as acting Labour leader Harriet Harman tried to take forward a review to change Labour's approach to welfare benefits to the discomfort of other Shadow Cabinet members? Andy Burnham considered resigning but did not, paving the way for Corbyn's election as leader.
"the 2020 election will be another referendum on health care. If you’re an American who suffers from a pre-existing condition, or doesn’t have a job that comes with health benefits, you should know that if Trump is re-elected, he will, one way or another, take away your health insurance."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/opinion/obamacare-court.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
"Although a Downing Street spokesman would only confirm that Sir Kim Darroch’s replacement would be announced “in due course”, Sir Alan Duncan admitted: “We do really want to make sure we get the very best person and I think it'd be a pity if in the interests of alacrity we chose a number two rather than a number one.” "