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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The threat to Obamacare, not Trump’s Tweets and tantrums, coul

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited July 12 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The threat to Obamacare, not Trump’s Tweets and tantrums, could be what costs him WH2020

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  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 11,405
    First, like Trump?
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 225
    I think we also need to take account of farmers distress re: China tariffs. RCS pointed out November results in Iowa, for example. I would think it would be the same in many places in the mid-west. Exactly, the places which won Trump the election.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    Second like Man City next season.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 11,556
    edited July 12
    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain is being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs) suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that Trump expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 25,474
    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 57,540
    edited July 12
    A recent ABC news poll did indeed have 52% of American voters backing a single payer healthcare system but that fell to just 43% if abolishing private health insurance was proposed as Warren has suggested.

    The 'Trumpcare' the president wants is in any case not far away from Obamacare

    https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/trump-reaches-career-high-approval-faces-range-reelection/story?id=64117018
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,893
    Roger said:

    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain are being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that John Bolton expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.

    "t's seems the US are trying to provoke war ..."

    Who do you think placed those mines on the Japanese ship?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771
    Roger said:

    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain is being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs) suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that Trump expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.

    The US are trying to provoke war? What do you think Iran are up to, shooting down drones and trying to illegally seize vessels?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 1,704
    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    That's unfair. At least 20% are in it to buy drugs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,686
    Corbynite councillor in charge of Brighton's schools who says 'privatisation won't provide good education' sends his daughter to £40,000-a-year Roedean girls' school

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7231707/EXCL-Corbynite-councillor-charge-schools-sends-daughter-40-000-year-Roedean-School.html
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 11,138

    Roger said:

    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain are being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that John Bolton expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.

    "t's seems the US are trying to provoke war ..."

    Who do you think placed those mines on the Japanese ship?
    Mossad.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 11,556
    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain is being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs) suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that Trump expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.

    The US are trying to provoke war? What do you think Iran are up to, shooting down drones and trying to illegally seize vessels?
    They signed a treaty as did the EU and have reneged on it. If the EU think reneging was wrong but Trump and Bolton are behind it I know where my support would go.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771

    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    That's unfair. At least 20% are in it to buy drugs.
    My apologies! :D
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 25,474
    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    As it happens, I agree with The Donald about cryptocurrencies (they are also horrifically unsound on environmental grounds). I merely note that a lot of deranged libertarians who have to date been enthusiastic supporters of him are now horrified.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    Absolutely. He's not wrong there either.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 7,506
    Neither the US or Iran are looking for war, but both are determined to appear strong and seem willing to choose war over appearing weak.

    Like with healthcare this looks like an example of Trump opposing something - the Iran nuclear deal - because it's an Obama achievement. The lesson is: no good can come of trying to reverse Obama's legacy.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028

    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    As it happens, I agree with The Donald about cryptocurrencies (they are also horrifically unsound on environmental grounds). I merely note that a lot of deranged libertarians who have to date been enthusiastic supporters of him are now horrified.
    I don't think Libertarians are Donald's prime target audience.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 11,556

    Roger said:

    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain are being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that John Bolton expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.

    "t's seems the US are trying to provoke war ..."

    Who do you think placed those mines on the Japanese ship?
    Listen to Mark Mardel on the One O'clock news. It's more nuanced than that as most thinking people would realise.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 57,540
    edited July 12

    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    As it happens, I agree with The Donald about cryptocurrencies (they are also horrifically unsound on environmental grounds). I merely note that a lot of deranged libertarians who have to date been enthusiastic supporters of him are now horrified.
    I don't think Libertarians are Donald's prime target audience.
    Indeed, the third placed candidate in the 2016 US presidential election was the Libertarian Party's Gary Johnson with 3%.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 11,556
    edited July 12
    HYUFD said:

    A recent ABC news poll did indeed have 52% of American voters backing a single payer healthcare system but that fell to just 43% if abolishing private health insurance was proposed as Warren has suggested.

    The 'Trumpcare' the president wants is in any case not far away from Obamacare

    https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/trump-reaches-career-high-approval-faces-range-reelection/story?id=64117018

    Does your uneqivocal support for Johnson include everyone Johnson knows and likes as well as the great man himself? If I was to suggest his girlfriend looks like his daughter would you find me a poll that showed I had defective eyesight?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 57,540
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    A recent ABC news poll did indeed have 52% of American voters backing a single payer healthcare system but that fell to just 43% if abolishing private health insurance was proposed as Warren has suggested.

    The 'Trumpcare' the president wants is in any case not far away from Obamacare

    https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/trump-reaches-career-high-approval-faces-range-reelection/story?id=64117018

    Does your uneqivocal support for Johnson include everyone Johnson knows and likes as well as the great man himself? If I was to suggest his girlfriend looks like his daughter would you find me a poll that showed I had defective eyesight?
    If a poll found such a result of course!
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 1,704

    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    As it happens, I agree with The Donald about cryptocurrencies (they are also horrifically unsound on environmental grounds). I merely note that a lot of deranged libertarians who have to date been enthusiastic supporters of him are now horrified.
    I don't think Libertarians are Donald's prime target audience.
    It's a large part of the constituency of r/The_Donald.

    Then again, they are all 14 and can't vote.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 427
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    That's unfair. At least 20% are in it to buy drugs.
    My apologies! :D
    You're both wrong. I for one am only in crypto to sell drugs.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,883
    What's a "legal Stuart" ?
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 225
    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain is being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs) suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that Trump expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.

    The US are trying to provoke war? What do you think Iran are up to, shooting down drones and trying to illegally seize vessels?
    Who imposed sanctions ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain is being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs) suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that Trump expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.

    The US are trying to provoke war? What do you think Iran are up to, shooting down drones and trying to illegally seize vessels?
    Who imposed sanctions ?
    Iran is the victim in all this? Give me a break.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,883

    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    As it happens, I agree with The Donald about cryptocurrencies (they are also horrifically unsound on environmental grounds). I merely note that a lot of deranged libertarians who have to date been enthusiastic supporters of him are now horrified.
    I don't think Libertarians are Donald's prime target audience.
    It's a large part of the constituency of r/The_Donald.

    Then again, they are all 14 and can't vote.
    This is now the Yang base.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,883
    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    What are the other 10% in for ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,893
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain are being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that John Bolton expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.

    "t's seems the US are trying to provoke war ..."

    Who do you think placed those mines on the Japanese ship?
    Listen to Mark Mardel on the One O'clock news. It's more nuanced than that as most thinking people would realise.
    " as most thinking people would realise."

    Most 'thinking people' wouldn't think (yet alone say) it was okay for 'the talent' in showbusiness to abuse women, my dear chap. Which means you're most certainly unthinking.

    Although I've read fairly widely on it, I didn't hear Mardell. So please, in your unthinking way, what did he say?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,750
    Pulpstar said:

    What's a "legal Stuart" ?

    Lawsuit.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 225
    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    That's a bit less than those who actually understand how the whole damn thing works.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    What are the other 10% in for ?
    Some people are mad enough to use it as a currency.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 2,153
    edited July 12
    felix said:

    MattW said:

    OllyT said:

    If we do leave No Deal 31 October and the sky doesn't fall, how long will it take before you admit you were wrong?

    Excuse me but hasn't the pound already lost 30% of its value against the euro since the referendum. Let's not pretend nothing has changed.
    No. It hasn't.
    The value started to fall form around €1.40 before the referendum to around €1.30 at the time of the vote. It is currently around €1.10
    Even if we accept that 1.4 to 1.11 is still only 20% not the alleged 30%.

    For the previous 5 years it was below 1.25 for the huge majority of the time, ie 10% from the norm.

    Were Mike Duff still alive, the "30% fall" claim would be a perfect case study.

    Calling a halt there. Things to do.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543
    edited July 12
    fpt -
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Imports from the EU are paid for with sterling but the price is converted to sterling according the the exchange rate. With a 30% fall either the importer or consumer pays the price - if the former fails to pass it on it affects their profits.

    But the importer will have a lot of cost denominated in sterling anyway so it will have a much smaller impact than you claim. And exporters will make more profit which they can then pass on to their employees or pensions etc
    Ah so that explains why the economy has begun to grow much more slowly over the past few months. You simply cannot credibly pretend that cintinually devaluing your currency is sensible economics if you expect people to take you seriously.
    We aren't "continually" devaluing, it is a one-off hit. And the economy isn't growing much more slowly.

    Try dealing with reality rather than pretence.
    Let me know what you think the trend is on this 5-yr graph.

    https://xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=5Y
    Steady fall until mid 2016. Pretty stable since. Against the Euro we see the same trends even more clearly: https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=EUR&view=5Y
    I'll raise you 10yrs

    https://xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=10Y

    The owner of a currency in secular decline is perhaps not best advised to try to "strike out alone".
    When we went to Germany in 1971 the official (army) rate of exchange was 7.4DM to the £. Lawson tried to keep us at 3. Our currency has been falling a long time. As with Italy (whose economy has gone tits up since it lost that option) the evidence of actual damage from this is, well, modest.

    What it suggests to me, along with our horrendous trade deficit with the EU is that our current arrangements (and domestic policies) are not working to our advantage and we need to try something else.
    As I said, in secular decline. I can't see the next few months and years doing anything to address that. Perhaps in the long run, but we all know what happens then...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,859
    FPT
    If I was looking for evidence of us having a weaker position in trade negotiations with the US post Brexit I would be a lot more interested in this than whether my chicken has been washed the same way as my lettuce: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48947922

    I think that there is a strong desire on the part of the Treasury at least to follow France on this. Will we be brave enough to follow suit?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 3,383

    Neither the US or Iran are looking for war, but both are determined to appear strong and seem willing to choose war over appearing weak.

    Like with healthcare this looks like an example of Trump opposing something - the Iran nuclear deal - because it's an Obama achievement. The lesson is: no good can come of trying to reverse Obama's legacy.

    Yes - sad and pathetic but undoubtedly true.

    If we could just get Obama to come out and praise Boris Johnson, Trump would go off him immediately.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 11,313
    edited July 12


    I don't think Libertarians are Donald's prime target audience.

    The Cernovich / Gab people aren't really libertarians, they like bitcoin because
    * They like conspiracy theories about Jewish bankers
    * They like ZeroHedge financial catastrophe stuff
    * They're getting demonetized by Youtube/Facebook and are always at risk of losing banking / credit card privileges like Wikileaks did, and with bitcoin they can still get paid regardless of how nazi they are
    * Number go up

    I don't know how important they were to Trump's victory but they're definitely a non-trivial element of his base.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 27,165
    Knowledge of economics, particularly inflation, doesn't seem to be too crash hot at British universities according to this:

    "Universities told to crack down as top degrees double in seven years"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/universities-told-to-crack-down-as-top-degrees-double-in-seven-years-s7pwsmbs7
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 2,229

    Second like Man City next season.

    Don't tell me, it's going to be Liverpool's year again!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 11,556

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain is being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs) suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that Trump expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.

    The US are trying to provoke war? What do you think Iran are up to, shooting down drones and trying to illegally seize vessels?
    Who imposed sanctions ?
    Looking for right or wrong it looks like an open and shut case. The US together with the EU signed a treaty with Iran. Iran kept their part of the bargain but the US unilaterally reneged on theirs. Not only that they went further and threatened sanctions on anyone who traded with Iran thus attempting to create a blockade. What would the UK do if a third country blockaded us and threatened sanctions on anyone who traded with us?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,859
    TOPPING said:

    fpt -

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Let me know what you think the trend is on this 5-yr graph.

    https://xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=5Y
    I'll raise you 10yrs

    https://xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=10Y

    The owner of a currency in secular decline is perhaps not best advised to try to "strike out alone".
    When we went to Germany in 1971 the official (army) rate of exchange was 7.4DM to the £. Lawson tried to keep us at 3. Our currency has been falling a long time. As with Italy (whose economy has gone tits up since it lost that option) the evidence of actual damage from this is, well, modest.

    What it suggests to me, along with our horrendous trade deficit with the EU is that our current arrangements (and domestic policies) are not working to our advantage and we need to try something else.
    As I said, in secular decline. I can't see the next few months and years doing anything to address that. Perhaps in the long run, but we all know what happens then...
    If we leave without a deal there will, at the least, be another one off adjustment, probably to $1.10 or so. Where we go from there will depend on how things work out.

    If we do the deal I suspect we might see a very small bounce but the markets have been remarkably sanguine about pricing a deal in.

    If we revoke our currency will be the least of our troubles.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    OllyT said:

    Second like Man City next season.

    Don't tell me, it's going to be Liverpool's year again!
    Well we won the Champions League last year. So yeah, why not?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543
    DavidL said:

    If we leave without a deal there will, at the least, be another one off adjustment, probably to $1.10 or so. Where we go from there will depend on how things work out.

    If we do the deal I suspect we might see a very small bounce but the markets have been remarkably sanguine about pricing a deal in.

    If we revoke our currency will be the least of our troubles.

    Whatever happens our currency will be the least of our problems.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 29,186
    DavidL said:

    If we revoke our currency will be the least of our troubles.

    Would you rather fight IndyRef2 in the EU, in a vassal state transition, or in a humiliating No Deal scenario?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    If we leave without a deal there will, at the least, be another one off adjustment, probably to $1.10 or so. Where we go from there will depend on how things work out.

    If we do the deal I suspect we might see a very small bounce but the markets have been remarkably sanguine about pricing a deal in.

    If we revoke our currency will be the least of our troubles.

    Whatever happens our currency will be the least of our problems.
    For once I agree with you.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 1,499

    Corbynite councillor in charge of Brighton's schools who says 'privatisation won't provide good education' sends his daughter to £40,000-a-year Roedean girls' school

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7231707/EXCL-Corbynite-councillor-charge-schools-sends-daughter-40-000-year-Roedean-School.html

    Corbynite councillor in charge of Brighton's schools who says 'privatisation won't provide good education' sends his daughter to £40,000-a-year Roedean girls' school

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7231707/EXCL-Corbynite-councillor-charge-schools-sends-daughter-40-000-year-Roedean-School.html

    This is the problem with the daily mail you have to look past the headline, what he opposes is the, as he sees it, the priitisation of a state school through being forced into an academy. I don’t think he wants tp nationalist private schools. The fact that he chooses to use a top fee paying school to bypass the state system is another issue and one that many politicians of all colors are guilty of.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543
    edited July 12
    nichomar said:

    Corbynite councillor in charge of Brighton's schools who says 'privatisation won't provide good education' sends his daughter to £40,000-a-year Roedean girls' school

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7231707/EXCL-Corbynite-councillor-charge-schools-sends-daughter-40-000-year-Roedean-School.html

    Corbynite councillor in charge of Brighton's schools who says 'privatisation won't provide good education' sends his daughter to £40,000-a-year Roedean girls' school

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7231707/EXCL-Corbynite-councillor-charge-schools-sends-daughter-40-000-year-Roedean-School.html

    This is the problem with the daily mail you have to look past the headline, what he opposes is the, as he sees it, the priitisation of a state school through being forced into an academy. I don’t think he wants tp nationalist private schools. The fact that he chooses to use a top fee paying school to bypass the state system is another issue and one that many politicians of all colors are guilty of.
    "a top fee paying school"!!??

    *THE* top fee paying school (together with Benenden).
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 225
    edited July 12
    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain is being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs) suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that Trump expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.

    The US are trying to provoke war? What do you think Iran are up to, shooting down drones and trying to illegally seize vessels?
    Who imposed sanctions ?
    Looking for right or wrong it looks like an open and shut case. The US together with the EU signed a treaty with Iran. Iran kept their part of the bargain but the US unilaterally reneged on theirs. Not only that they went further and threatened sanctions on anyone who traded with Iran thus attempting to create a blockade. What would the UK do if a third country blockaded us and threatened sanctions on anyone who traded with us?
    So far Iran has only hinted at what they can do. If the US really attacked them, then the Strait of Hormuz and even the upper Gulf will be mined very quickly. You don't need modern technology to do that.

    I am not surprised. They are being put up against a wall. What can they do ?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,859
    AndyJS said:

    Knowledge of economics, particularly inflation, doesn't seem to be too crash hot at British universities according to this:

    "Universities told to crack down as top degrees double in seven years"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/universities-told-to-crack-down-as-top-degrees-double-in-seven-years-s7pwsmbs7

    The economics are very sound. Top degrees is what people pay for. There is high demand. Increase the supply. QED.

    Of course, as with currencies, there is a risk of the devaluation of the product but that's the next guy's problem.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 34,292
    . Whatever the EU immediately gains from defending the idea of there being four inviolable freedoms to the single market, for Germany to have allowed non-Nato Ireland to set parameters for the EU’s future relations with Britain constitutes a geopolitical gamble.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2019/07/germany-have-allowed-non-nato-member-ireland-set-parameters-brexit-gamble
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 948
    edited July 12
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    As it happens, I agree with The Donald about cryptocurrencies (they are also horrifically unsound on environmental grounds). I merely note that a lot of deranged libertarians who have to date been enthusiastic supporters of him are now horrified.
    I don't think Libertarians are Donald's prime target audience.
    Indeed, the third placed candidate in the 2016 US presidential election was the Libertarian Party's Gary Johnson with 3%.
    But that's 3% Trump could do with winning and that he'd not want to see rise to 5% plus. Johnson never quite had a "moment" in 2016 but occasionally polled 10% - the last thing Trump wants is a vaguely credible "minimal state" alternative for those who are pretty grudging about him anyway but don't want a big state Democrat getting in.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 1,499
    DavidL said:

    FPT
    If I was looking for evidence of us having a weaker position in trade negotiations with the US post Brexit I would be a lot more interested in this than whether my chicken has been washed the same way as my lettuce: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48947922

    I think that there is a strong desire on the part of the Treasury at least to follow France on this. Will we be brave enough to follow suit?


    I doubt it.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,128
    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain is being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs) suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that Trump expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.

    The US are trying to provoke war? What do you think Iran are up to, shooting down drones and trying to illegally seize vessels?
    Who imposed sanctions ?
    Looking for right or wrong it looks like an open and shut case. The US together with the EU signed a treaty with Iran. Iran kept their part of the bargain but the US unilaterally reneged on theirs. Not only that they went further and threatened sanctions on anyone who traded with Iran thus attempting to create a blockade. What would the UK do if a third country blockaded us and threatened sanctions on anyone who traded with us?
    I don't know, but it feels like much of a real possibility if we Brexit.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,859

    DavidL said:

    If we revoke our currency will be the least of our troubles.

    Would you rather fight IndyRef2 in the EU, in a vassal state transition, or in a humiliating No Deal scenario?
    Firstly, I wouldn't (although the upside for my fitbit is tempting). Secondly I am not sure I agree with your options.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,322
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    He's also upset a different part of his base today by coming out firmly against cryptocurrencies:

    Well, it is a giant Ponzi scheme. I bet 90% of people are in it just to make money.
    What are the other 10% in for ?
    Laundry?
  • felixfelix Posts: 8,734
    nichomar said:

    Corbynite councillor in charge of Brighton's schools who says 'privatisation won't provide good education' sends his daughter to £40,000-a-year Roedean girls' school

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7231707/EXCL-Corbynite-councillor-charge-schools-sends-daughter-40-000-year-Roedean-School.html

    Corbynite councillor in charge of Brighton's schools who says 'privatisation won't provide good education' sends his daughter to £40,000-a-year Roedean girls' school

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7231707/EXCL-Corbynite-councillor-charge-schools-sends-daughter-40-000-year-Roedean-School.html

    This is the problem with the daily mail you have to look past the headline, what he opposes is the, as he sees it, the priitisation of a state school through being forced into an academy. I don’t think he wants tp nationalist private schools. The fact that he chooses to use a top fee paying school to bypass the state system is another issue and one that many politicians of all colors are guilty of.

    There is nothing to be guilty of in sending your child to a private school. There is a suggestion of hypocrisy however if you simultaneosly claim you want to abolish them. It's the old Labour mantra 'do as I say not as I do'.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 9,834
    DavidL said:

    FPT
    If I was looking for evidence of us having a weaker position in trade negotiations with the US post Brexit I would be a lot more interested in this than whether my chicken has been washed the same way as my lettuce: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48947922

    I think that there is a strong desire on the part of the Treasury at least to follow France on this. Will we be brave enough to follow suit?

    We have already brought forward plans.

    The US is incorrect to state the measures are protectionist, although they are of course adding to the tax burden on US companies abroad.

    The US currently benefits hugely from profits following IP, a rule which was invested er, by the British and French when it suited us...
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,322

    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain is being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs) suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that Trump expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.

    The US are trying to provoke war? What do you think Iran are up to, shooting down drones and trying to illegally seize vessels?
    Who imposed sanctions ?
    Looking for right or wrong it looks like an open and shut case. The US together with the EU signed a treaty with Iran. Iran kept their part of the bargain but the US unilaterally reneged on theirs. Not only that they went further and threatened sanctions on anyone who traded with Iran thus attempting to create a blockade. What would the UK do if a third country blockaded us and threatened sanctions on anyone who traded with us?
    I don't know, but it feels like much of a real possibility if we Brexit.
    Are you suggesting that's reason to leave or to remain?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 27,819
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt -

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    Let me know what you think the trend is on this 5-yr graph.

    https://xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=5Y
    I'll raise you 10yrs

    https://xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=10Y

    The owner of a currency in secular decline is perhaps not best advised to try to "strike out alone".
    When we went to Germany in 1971 the official (army) rate of exchange was 7.4DM to the £. Lawson tried to keep us at 3. Our currency has been falling a long time. As with Italy (whose economy has gone tits up since it lost that option) the evidence of actual damage from this is, well, modest.

    What it suggests to me, along with our horrendous trade deficit with the EU is that our current arrangements (and domestic policies) are not working to our advantage and we need to try something else.
    As I said, in secular decline. I can't see the next few months and years doing anything to address that. Perhaps in the long run, but we all know what happens then...
    If we leave without a deal there will, at the least, be another one off adjustment, probably to $1.10 or so. Where we go from there will depend on how things work out.

    If we do the deal I suspect we might see a very small bounce but the markets have been remarkably sanguine about pricing a deal in.

    If we revoke our currency will be the least of our troubles.
    Once sterling was floated, the value of sterling stopped being important. Would we really want to go back to the living standards of 1967 in return for having a pound/dollar rate of 2.80?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 1,499
    TOPPING said:

    nichomar said:

    Corbynite councillor in charge of Brighton's schools who says 'privatisation won't provide good education' sends his daughter to £40,000-a-year Roedean girls' school

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7231707/EXCL-Corbynite-councillor-charge-schools-sends-daughter-40-000-year-Roedean-School.html

    Corbynite councillor in charge of Brighton's schools who says 'privatisation won't provide good education' sends his daughter to £40,000-a-year Roedean girls' school

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7231707/EXCL-Corbynite-councillor-charge-schools-sends-daughter-40-000-year-Roedean-School.html

    This is the problem with the daily mail you have to look past the headline, what he opposes is the, as he sees it, the priitisation of a state school through being forced into an academy. I don’t think he wants tp nationalist private schools. The fact that he chooses to use a top fee paying school to bypass the state system is another issue and one that many politicians of all colors are guilty of.
    "a top fee paying school"!!??

    *THE* top fee paying school (together with Benenden).
    Actually i didn’t stress that I think it’s highly hypocritical of a politician, especially involved in state education to by pass the system for which they have responsibility.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 825
    PClipp said:

    On Bridlington, clearly it's a poor result for both Labour and the Conservatives, and a very impressive one for the Lib Dems.
    But I would be wary of inferring too much from the swings which (a) are from May 2019 - how much has genuinely changed since then? and (b) are based on a three-seat election in which there were just 3 Conservative candidates and 1 Labour one, which would tend to inflate the Conservatives vote above and beyond, as they will have picked up some Labour "second preferences". And of course, there was no Lib Dem candidate at all.May 2019 result

    Con 2101
    Con 2050
    Con 1929
    Lab 855

    Yesterday's by-election

    Lib Dem 1308
    Con 815
    UKIP 349
    Yorks 196
    Lab 135
    Ind 125
    Ind 76
    Ind 58

    If we're going to look at local by-elections for a steer (and I think we should) we have to do so intelligently, and by looking at aggregate trends, not the seemingly startling outliers.

    All this morning we have heard from Conservative posters telling other Conservative posters that they ought to go off an join the Lib Dems. I expect that, somehow, the good electors of Bridlington were just one day head of that good advice.
    I think it’s clear that the voters are way ahead of the politicians at the moment. Yesterday’s Bridlington by-election result above is evidence for that.

    Blue on blue catfights are just going to drive even more voters towards the Lib Dems, the natural home for most disaffected Tories.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,883
    It won't make much difference. But the Democrats don't need much...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 2,310
    Leo Varadkar is a man of wisdom.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,883
    Just how has our currency devalued relative to every other major world currency in the last 50 years and yet we've managed to continue growing etc ?

    & Is it sustainable ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771

    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain is being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs) suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.

    He suggested that Trump expects Johnson to line up behind the US.

    So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.

    The US are trying to provoke war? What do you think Iran are up to, shooting down drones and trying to illegally seize vessels?
    Who imposed sanctions ?
    Looking for right or wrong it looks like an open and shut case. The US together with the EU signed a treaty with Iran. Iran kept their part of the bargain but the US unilaterally reneged on theirs. Not only that they went further and threatened sanctions on anyone who traded with Iran thus attempting to create a blockade. What would the UK do if a third country blockaded us and threatened sanctions on anyone who traded with us?
    I don't know, but it feels like much of a real possibility if we Brexit.
    Project fear eat your heart out.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 27,165
    It's interesting how so many people today are in favour of mind-altering drugs being legalised but are against free speech in case it offends people. I find that combination puzzling.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 8,786
    The EU is a protectionist project, but not quite in the way that the antis realise.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 34,292
    edited July 12
    Ireland won’t look so clever after UK Corporation tax rates are below theirs once the EU have “harmonised” them....
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,322

    Leo Varadkar is a man of wisdom.

    what does that make you?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 21,028
    AndyJS said:

    It's interesting how so many people today are in favour of mind-altering drugs being legalised but are against free speech in case it offends people. I find that combination puzzling.

    I found interesting the report the other day that US states that have legalised cannabis have seen a 10% reduction in underage young people taking the drug.

    Licensed and legal outlets puts drug dealers out of business and while legal outlets have to ask for ID, drug dealers don't.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,859
    edited July 12
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt -

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I'll raise you 10yrs

    https://xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=10Y

    The owner of a currency in secular decline is perhaps not best advised to try to "strike out alone".
    When we went to Germany in 1971 the official (army) rate of exchange was 7.4DM to the £. Lawson tried to keep us at 3. Our currency has been falling a long time. As with Italy (whose economy has gone tits up since it lost that option) the evidence of actual damage from this is, well, modest.

    What it suggests to me, along with our horrendous trade deficit with the EU is that our current arrangements (and domestic policies) are not working to our advantage and we need to try something else.
    As I said, in secular decline. I can't see the next few months and years doing anything to address that. Perhaps in the long run, but we all know what happens then...
    If we leave without a deal there will, at the least, be another one off adjustment, probably to $1.10 or so. Where we go from there will depend on how things work out.

    If we do the deal I suspect we might see a very small bounce but the markets have been remarkably sanguine about pricing a deal in.

    If we revoke our currency will be the least of our troubles.
    Once sterling was floated, the value of sterling stopped being important. Would we really want to go back to the living standards of 1967 in return for having a pound/dollar rate of 2.80?
    No, but I actually agree with @TOPPING that it is not a particularly healthy sign. Germany got many, many benefits from a gradually rising exchange rate. It drove higher productivity, a serious focus on quality especially for exports, it helped keep domestic inflation low with consequential low interest rates and high investment. Since the Euro they have removed the competitive disadvantage they took on by joining at a high rate and have made themselves super competitive within the EZ by having what amounts to internal deflation.

    Given a choice I would prefer to have a slowly appreciating currency rather than a depreciating one. I am not completely convinced it does not matter.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 2,310

    Ireland won’t look so clever after UK Corporation tax rates are below theirs once the EU have “harmonised” them....
    The British public are not going to vote for a manifesto promising to slash corporation tax rates at the expense of our already crumbling public services.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,322
    FF43 said:

    The EU is a protectionist project, but not quite in the way that the antis realise.
    very cryptic
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 12,562
    felix said:




    There is nothing to be guilty of in sending your child to a private school. There is a suggestion of hypocrisy however if you simultaneosly claim you want to abolish them. It's the old Labour mantra 'do as I say not as I do'.

    I don't think it's at all hypocritical to say "The system loads the dice in favour of people whose families do X. Like everyone else I'll try to make sure my family doesn't lose out, but I think the system is wrong." The same applies to someone whose spouse is facing a 2-year waiting list for a hip replacement - they may (as Denis Healey did) say OK, I'll pay for you to go private, but that doesn't mean they suddenly think 2-year waiting lists are a good thing.

    The case is a little stronger when it comes to oneself - I've declined to have private medical treatment when something arose for that reason. But I don't think we should ask our families in the present be hostage to what we believe the future ought to be like.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,859

    AndyJS said:

    It's interesting how so many people today are in favour of mind-altering drugs being legalised but are against free speech in case it offends people. I find that combination puzzling.

    I found interesting the report the other day that US states that have legalised cannabis have seen a 10% reduction in underage young people taking the drug.

    Licensed and legal outlets puts drug dealers out of business and while legal outlets have to ask for ID, drug dealers don't.
    I would love to see a link to that if you have it.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 3,322

    Ireland won’t look so clever after UK Corporation tax rates are below theirs once the EU have “harmonised” them....
    Look at a map and tell me I'm mad for thinking that LV is whistling very loudly in the dark.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543

    felix said:



    There is nothing to be guilty of in sending your child to a private school. There is a suggestion of hypocrisy however if you simultaneosly claim you want to abolish them. It's the old Labour mantra 'do as I say not as I do'.

    I don't think it's at all hypocritical to say "The system loads the dice in favour of people whose families do X. Like everyone else I'll try to make sure my family doesn't lose out, but I think the system is wrong." The same applies to someone whose spouse is facing a 2-year waiting list for a hip replacement - they may (as Denis Healey did) say OK, I'll pay for you to go private, but that doesn't mean they suddenly think 2-year waiting lists are a good thing.

    The case is a little stronger when it comes to oneself - I've declined to have private medical treatment when something arose for that reason. But I don't think we should ask our families in the present be hostage to what we believe the future ought to be like.
    Blimey that's a tortuous path you're treading there, Nick. I'm not sure the broad masses will be as alive to the nuances and might think such people are simply utter and total hypocrites. Me, for example.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 22,287
    FPT
    DavidL said:

    » show previous quotes
    What did you get? I had had a series of A4s and their cost seemed to have gone from about £22k to £30k+. Nice cars but not worth that. It seemed to reflect the exchange rate changes more than general inflation though.

    It was a Q5 S Line TDI40, took all the bells & whistles , everything but sunroof. Very nice to drive and can potter along on soft suspension or in sports mode etc. The auto DSG box is incredible.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,859
    Pulpstar said:

    Just how has our currency devalued relative to every other major world currency in the last 50 years and yet we've managed to continue growing etc ?

    & Is it sustainable ?

    Basically inflation. Over that period we have had higher inflation than most so we have more £, even if they are individually worth less.

    In theory it is sustainable almost indefinitely. Italy went even further than us down this road and their economy overtook ours at its pre Euro peak.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 27,165
    "Momentum launch drive for open selections across the country

    Sienna Rodgers"

    https://labourlist.org/2019/07/momentum-launch-drive-for-open-selections-across-the-country/
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 8,786

    Ireland won’t look so clever after UK Corporation tax rates are below theirs once the EU have “harmonised” them....
    It doesn't matter if the UK has lower corporation tax. Ireland will be in the all important EU market. We won't be. In any case unless the governments change their view on austerity, taxes will go up. Added to which, Brexit will be very expensive and needs to be paid for.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 29,186

    Ireland won’t look so clever after UK Corporation tax rates are below theirs once the EU have “harmonised” them....
    Look at a map and tell me I'm mad for thinking that LV is whistling very loudly in the dark.
    What does this map tell you about Brexit?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 2,310

    Leo Varadkar is a man of wisdom.

    what does that make you?
    I don't know. You tell me?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 3,383
    felix said:

    There is nothing to be guilty of in sending your child to a private school. There is a suggestion of hypocrisy however if you simultaneosly claim you want to abolish them. It's the old Labour mantra 'do as I say not as I do'.

    To hold the view that the private option should not be available but send your own child private is to place the welfare of your child above your political principles.

    It is harsh and unfair to describe this as hypocrisy.

    However, if you send your child private but attack others for doing the same, that IS hypocrisy.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 27,165
    edited July 12

    felix said:




    There is nothing to be guilty of in sending your child to a private school. There is a suggestion of hypocrisy however if you simultaneosly claim you want to abolish them. It's the old Labour mantra 'do as I say not as I do'.

    I don't think it's at all hypocritical to say "The system loads the dice in favour of people whose families do X. Like everyone else I'll try to make sure my family doesn't lose out, but I think the system is wrong." The same applies to someone whose spouse is facing a 2-year waiting list for a hip replacement - they may (as Denis Healey did) say OK, I'll pay for you to go private, but that doesn't mean they suddenly think 2-year waiting lists are a good thing.

    The case is a little stronger when it comes to oneself - I've declined to have private medical treatment when something arose for that reason. But I don't think we should ask our families in the present be hostage to what we believe the future ought to be like.
    We'll have to agree to disagree. I think if someones says private schools are wrong, they shouldn't send their own children to one.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,859
    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    DavidL said:

    » show previous quotes
    What did you get? I had had a series of A4s and their cost seemed to have gone from about £22k to £30k+. Nice cars but not worth that. It seemed to reflect the exchange rate changes more than general inflation though.

    It was a Q5 S Line TDI40, took all the bells & whistles , everything but sunroof. Very nice to drive and can potter along on soft suspension or in sports mode etc. The auto DSG box is incredible.

    Wow. That's quite a few turnips! Congratulations.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 5,204
    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    It's interesting how so many people today are in favour of mind-altering drugs being legalised but are against free speech in case it offends people. I find that combination puzzling.

    I found interesting the report the other day that US states that have legalised cannabis have seen a 10% reduction in underage young people taking the drug.

    Licensed and legal outlets puts drug dealers out of business and while legal outlets have to ask for ID, drug dealers don't.
    I would love to see a link to that if you have it.
    Study is here I think (I was also interested): https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2737637?guestAccessKey=5e4e41eb-ec96-4641-86f9-b5c89cc7cc48&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=070819
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 8,786

    FF43 said:

    The EU is a protectionist project, but not quite in the way that the antis realise.
    very cryptic
    Protections are good or bad depending on what you are protecting. The anti EU brigade accuse the EU of imposing trade barriers, although Brexit does that far more. But Brexit also means the loss of protections that people take for granted.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543
    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    DavidL said:

    » show previous quotes
    What did you get? I had had a series of A4s and their cost seemed to have gone from about £22k to £30k+. Nice cars but not worth that. It seemed to reflect the exchange rate changes more than general inflation though.

    It was a Q5 S Line TDI40, took all the bells & whistles , everything but sunroof. Very nice to drive and can potter along on soft suspension or in sports mode etc. The auto DSG box is incredible.

    @Dura_Ace trigger warning.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,543
    AndyJS said:

    felix said:




    There is nothing to be guilty of in sending your child to a private school. There is a suggestion of hypocrisy however if you simultaneosly claim you want to abolish them. It's the old Labour mantra 'do as I say not as I do'.

    I don't think it's at all hypocritical to say "The system loads the dice in favour of people whose families do X. Like everyone else I'll try to make sure my family doesn't lose out, but I think the system is wrong." The same applies to someone whose spouse is facing a 2-year waiting list for a hip replacement - they may (as Denis Healey did) say OK, I'll pay for you to go private, but that doesn't mean they suddenly think 2-year waiting lists are a good thing.

    The case is a little stronger when it comes to oneself - I've declined to have private medical treatment when something arose for that reason. But I don't think we should ask our families in the present be hostage to what we believe the future ought to be like.
    We'll have to agree to disagree. I think if someones says private schools are wrong, they shouldn't send their own children to one.
    More pithy than my response. I mean you can't blame people for twisting and turning but that's the nub of it.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 1,499
    AndyJS said:

    felix said:




    There is nothing to be guilty of in sending your child to a private school. There is a suggestion of hypocrisy however if you simultaneosly claim you want to abolish them. It's the old Labour mantra 'do as I say not as I do'.

    I don't think it's at all hypocritical to say "The system loads the dice in favour of people whose families do X. Like everyone else I'll try to make sure my family doesn't lose out, but I think the system is wrong." The same applies to someone whose spouse is facing a 2-year waiting list for a hip replacement - they may (as Denis Healey did) say OK, I'll pay for you to go private, but that doesn't mean they suddenly think 2-year waiting lists are a good thing.

    The case is a little stronger when it comes to oneself - I've declined to have private medical treatment when something arose for that reason. But I don't think we should ask our families in the present be hostage to what we believe the future ought to be like.
    We'll have to agree to disagree. I think if someones says private schools are wrong, they shouldn't send their own children to one.
    Your actually making the point for me that I tried to make by drawing that conclusion. He doesn’t want to nationalise private schools he wants to stop state schools being privatised through the academy route. The fact the mail can hang the fact that
    the daughter goes to a private school just adds meat to the bone.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 23,893
    kinabalu said:

    felix said:

    There is nothing to be guilty of in sending your child to a private school. There is a suggestion of hypocrisy however if you simultaneosly claim you want to abolish them. It's the old Labour mantra 'do as I say not as I do'.

    To hold the view that the private option should not be available but send your own child private is to place the welfare of your child above your political principles.

    It is harsh and unfair to describe this as hypocrisy.

    However, if you send your child private but attack others for doing the same, that IS hypocrisy.
    Hypocrisy, noun:
    "the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case."

    That fits exactly what you wrote in your first paragraph.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 50,052
    Good afternoon, everyone.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 22,287
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    DavidL said:

    » show previous quotes
    What did you get? I had had a series of A4s and their cost seemed to have gone from about £22k to £30k+. Nice cars but not worth that. It seemed to reflect the exchange rate changes more than general inflation though.

    It was a Q5 S Line TDI40, took all the bells & whistles , everything but sunroof. Very nice to drive and can potter along on soft suspension or in sports mode etc. The auto DSG box is incredible.

    Wow. That's quite a few turnips! Congratulations.
    It was indeed, I thought I would treat myself. Thank you.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,771
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    DavidL said:

    » show previous quotes
    What did you get? I had had a series of A4s and their cost seemed to have gone from about £22k to £30k+. Nice cars but not worth that. It seemed to reflect the exchange rate changes more than general inflation though.

    It was a Q5 S Line TDI40, took all the bells & whistles , everything but sunroof. Very nice to drive and can potter along on soft suspension or in sports mode etc. The auto DSG box is incredible.

    Wow. That's quite a few turnips! Congratulations.
    It was indeed, I thought I would treat myself. Thank you.
    Hm, has I known turnip farming was so lucrative, I would have taken a different path in my life :o
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 34,292

    Ireland won’t look so clever after UK Corporation tax rates are below theirs once the EU have “harmonised” them....
    The British public are not going to vote for a manifesto promising to slash corporation tax rates at the expense of our already crumbling public services.
    First, UK Corporation tax rates are already low. Second, cutting rates can raise more revenue and third we may not need to cut much or at all if the EU forces Ireland up which they’ve been trying to do for years, with the UK robustly defending Ireland’s corner.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 1,659
    AndyJS said:

    felix said:




    There is nothing to be guilty of in sending your child to a private school. There is a suggestion of hypocrisy however if you simultaneosly claim you want to abolish them. It's the old Labour mantra 'do as I say not as I do'.

    I don't think it's at all hypocritical to say "The system loads the dice in favour of people whose families do X. Like everyone else I'll try to make sure my family doesn't lose out, but I think the system is wrong." The same applies to someone whose spouse is facing a 2-year waiting list for a hip replacement - they may (as Denis Healey did) say OK, I'll pay for you to go private, but that doesn't mean they suddenly think 2-year waiting lists are a good thing.

    The case is a little stronger when it comes to oneself - I've declined to have private medical treatment when something arose for that reason. But I don't think we should ask our families in the present be hostage to what we believe the future ought to be like.
    We'll have to agree to disagree. I think if someones says private schools are wrong, they shouldn't send their own children to one.
    I lean more to KInabalu's view than yours. One's own principles should come second to the welfare of one's children/family. Although I'm in favour of community schooling, we have grammar schools here and I was happy to apply for a place for our daughter.

    Another example is veganism: vegans shouldn't stop their children eating meat.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 52,883
    Men's semis looking to be considerably more competitive than the womens..
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