There is nothing to be guilty of in sending your child to a private school. There is a suggestion of hypocrisy however if you simultaneosly claim you want to abolish them. It's the old Labour mantra 'do as I say not as I do'.
I don't think it's at all hypocritical to say "The system loads the dice in favour of people whose families do X. Like everyone else I'll try to make sure my family doesn't lose out, but I think the system is wrong." The same applies to someone whose spouse is facing a 2-year waiting list for a hip replacement - they may (as Denis Healey did) say OK, I'll pay for you to go private, but that doesn't mean they suddenly think 2-year waiting lists are a good thing.
The case is a little stronger when it comes to oneself - I've declined to have private medical treatment when something arose for that reason. But I don't think we should ask our families in the present be hostage to what we believe the future ought to be like.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I think if someones says private schools are wrong, they shouldn't send their own children to one.
I lean more to KInabalu's view than yours. One's own principles should come second to the welfare of one's children/family. Although I'm in favour of community schooling, we have grammar schools here and I was happy to apply for a place for our daughter.
Another example is veganism: vegans shouldn't stop their children eating meat.
I simply don't understand your comment.
A principle is only a principle if you apply it to all situations. What you've written — "one's own principles should come second to the welfare of one's children/family" — doesn't make any sense, logically speaking. By definition, it cannot be a principle if you make an exception in certain circumstances.
I lean more to KInabalu's view than yours. One's own principles should come second to the welfare of one's children/family. Although I'm in favour of community schooling, we have grammar schools here and I was happy to apply for a place for our daughter.
Another example is veganism: vegans shouldn't stop their children eating meat.
A good general rule is not to push one's own views on any controversial issue onto one's family. My father, a Conservative, was carefully respectful of my communism as a teenager, contenting himself with saying "Many people share your view - I don't myself, but you mustn't let that influence you." 20 years later, when I was standing for Parliament in his constituency and he asked if I'd be upset if he voted for someone else, I was so pleased to be able to return the compliment and urge him to go with his beliefs.
I expect that if he'd earlier said "stupid boy, I forbid you to express such opinions in my presence", I'd have grown up more intolerant myself.
and now you support a leader of a party who is now renowned for his intolerance. How long must you tolerate his intolerance before you withdraw your support for a man that through his incompetence and ineptitude at holding the government to account is dragging Britain down the plughole
I lean more to KInabalu's view than yours. One's own principles should come second to the welfare of one's children/family. Although I'm in favour of community schooling, we have grammar schools here and I was happy to apply for a place for our daughter.
Another example is veganism: vegans shouldn't stop their children eating meat.
A good general rule is not to push one's own views on any controversial issue onto one's family. My father, a Conservative, was carefully respectful of my communism as a teenager, contenting himself with saying "Many people share your view - I don't myself, but you mustn't let that influence you." 20 years later, when I was standing for Parliament in his constituency and he asked if I'd be upset if he voted for someone else, I was so pleased to be able to return the compliment and urge him to go with his beliefs.
I expect that if he'd earlier said "stupid boy, I forbid you to express such opinions in my presence", I'd have grown up more intolerant myself.
and now you support a leader of a party who is now renowned for his intolerance. How long must you tolerate his intolerance before you withdraw your support for a man that through his incompetence and ineptitude at holding the government to account is dragging Britain down the plughole
You moron , it is the Tories taking it down the plughole, Corbyn is just a bemused bystander.
More importantly, is this a teeny, weeny proto Remain bump ? Maybe, the salami slicing did something.
That is an armageddon poll for Ruth Davidson’s team. Fifth place and staring total wipeout in the face. Again.
Not much better for SLab: only Murray would survive.
Do you think the trial of Wee Eck will affect ScotNat support? Is Wee Jimmy Krankie still giving him support?
How juvenile, what a tosser you are.
Touched a nerve? You are a man that follows a juvenile and corrupt philosophy called nationalism; a charter for tossers such as yourself. I don't think there is anything juvenile about what Salmond has been accused of, but innocent until proven guilty eh?
There is nothing to be guilty of in sending your child to a private school. There is a suggestion of hypocrisy however if you simultaneosly claim you want to abolish them. It's the old Labour mantra 'do as I say not as I do'.
I don't think it's at all hypocritical to say "The system loads the dice in favour of people whose families do X. Like everyone else I'll try to make sure my family doesn't lose out, but I think the system is wrong." The same applies to someone whose spouse is facing a 2-year waiting list for a hip replacement - they may (as Denis Healey did) say OK, I'll pay for you to go private, but that doesn't mean they suddenly think 2-year waiting lists are a good thing.
The case is a little stronger when it comes to oneself - I've declined to have private medical treatment when something arose for that reason. But I don't think we should ask our families in the present be hostage to what we believe the future ought to be like.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I think if someones says private schools are wrong, they shouldn't send their own children to one.
I lean more to KInabalu's view than yours. One's own principles should come second to the welfare of one's children/family. Although I'm in favour of community schooling, we have grammar schools here and I was happy to apply for a place for our daughter.
Another example is veganism: vegans shouldn't stop their children eating meat.
I simply don't understand your comment.
A principle is only a principle if you apply it to all situations. What you've written — "one's own principles should come second to the welfare of one's children/family" — doesn't make any sense, logically speaking. By definition, it cannot be a principle if you make an exception in certain circumstances.
I think it's a good idea for children to be at school. When my daughters school a few months had an outbreak of Norovirus I quite agreed with the decision to shut the school for the rest of the week for a deep clean and to ensure all children had recovered rather than leave it open. Circumstances changed.
Stick to what you know loser, square root of beggar all. Making up childish names shows you for what you are. Assume nurse helped you with the last bit.
Ah, that condescending lazy crap again. Quite why a handful of loonies believing such things gives licence to senior people to be so lazy and pretend it is the norm I don't know.
Tbf one of those loonies is about to become pm. I accept that many of those lunacies as expressed were cynically directed towards someone or some constituency that could advance his cause (himself), but I'm not sure if that makes it any better.
I lean more to KInabalu's view than yours. One's own principles should come second to the welfare of one's children/family. Although I'm in favour of community schooling, we have grammar schools here and I was happy to apply for a place for our daughter.
Another example is veganism: vegans shouldn't stop their children eating meat.
A good general rule is not to push one's own views on any controversial issue onto one's family. My father, a Conservative, was carefully respectful of my communism as a teenager, contenting himself with saying "Many people share your view - I don't myself, but you mustn't let that influence you." 20 years later, when I was standing for Parliament in his constituency and he asked if I'd be upset if he voted for someone else, I was so pleased to be able to return the compliment and urge him to go with his beliefs.
I expect that if he'd earlier said "stupid boy, I forbid you to express such opinions in my presence", I'd have grown up more intolerant myself.
That Survation remains the most pro Labour biased pollster and got the European elections spectacularly wrong, having the Labour Party ahead of both the Brexit Party and LDs.
However in general terms it shows what every other pollster is showing ie unless and until Boris becomes Tory leader it will be a Labour minority government propped up by the LDs and SNP as the Brexit Party will continue to split the Tory vote.
That Survation remains the most pro Labour biased pollster and got the European elections spectacularly wrong, having the Labour Party ahead of both the Brexit Party and LDs.
However in general terms it shows what every other pollster is showing ie unless and until Boris becomes Tory leader it will be a Labour minority government propped up by the LDs and SNP as the Brexit Party will continue to split the Tory vote.
That Survation remains the most pro Labour biased pollster and got the European elections spectacularly wrong, having the Labour Party ahead of both the Brexit Party and LDs.
However in general terms it shows what every other pollster is showing ie unless and until Boris becomes Tory leader it will be a Labour minority government propped up by the LDs and SNP as the Brexit Party will continue to split the Tory vote.
Survation had Labour on 24% and the Lib Dems on 12% for the European elections. They seem to have major sampling issues and are not producing useful data on the current realignment.
If other remain voters were as undecided as me, those might have been the correct figures the day before.
Trump must be one of the few people in the world with greater vanity than Boris
Indeed. Boris is an amateur by comparison. But I think Trump is also dangerously unwell. I just wish the Americans would do something about the situation.
The difference between YouGov and Survation appears to be between the Labour and Green percentages. The Conservative Brexit and Lib Dem percentages are broadly the same.
OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain is being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs) suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.
He suggested that Trump expects Johnson to line up behind the US.
So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.
The US are trying to provoke war? What do you think Iran are up to, shooting down drones and trying to illegally seize vessels?
They signed a treaty as did the EU and have reneged on it. If the EU think reneging was wrong but Trump and Bolton are behind it I know where my support would go.
Sure although Iran has now reneged on the agreement they have with the E.U.
What are your thoughts on Iran trying to hijack a BP tanker yesterday?
The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action was the treaty between Iran and the P5+1 (that is the permanent members of the security council and Germany). The EU is not a signatory to the treaty.
The US withdrew from the treaty in May 2018 (without, I would note giving the required notice - President Trump simply announced they would not abide by it, and would reintroduce sacnctions). The US sanctions penalised firms - including non-US ones - for dealing with Iran, andt the EU attempted to nullify their affect via a blocking stature in August 2019.
However, most large (Western) firms chose to obey the US sanctions. (Simply, they didn't reckon the EU would be able to offset the impact of the US.) And in consequence a lot of the international commercial activity in Iran ground to a halt. This month Iran announced it would no longer abide by the terms of the treaty (as it was seeing no benefit) and had breached limits on uranium enrichment.
There is nothing to be guilty of in sending your child to a private school. There is a suggestion of hypocrisy however if you simultaneosly claim you want to abolish them. It's the old Labour mantra 'do as I say not as I do'.
I don't think it's at all hypocritical to say "The system loads the dice in favour of people whose families do X. Like everyone else I'll try to make sure my family doesn't lose out, but I think the system is wrong." The same applies to someone whose spouse is facing a 2-year waiting list for a hip replacement - they may (as Denis Healey did) say OK, I'll pay for you to go private, but that doesn't mean they suddenly think 2-year waiting lists are a good thing.
The case is a little stronger when it comes to oneself - I've declined to have private medical treatment when something arose for that reason. But I don't think we should ask our families in the present be hostage to what we believe the future ought to be like.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I think if someones says private schools are wrong, they shouldn't send their own children to one.
I lean more to KInabalu's view than yours. One's own principles should come second to the welfare of one's children/family. Although I'm in favour of community schooling, we have grammar schools here and I was happy to apply for a place for our daughter.
Another example is veganism: vegans shouldn't stop their children eating meat.
I think the issue is slightly different:
1. Sending your kid to private school says you think this provides a better outcome for children 2. You believe in community schooling and - presumably - want to improve it such that the differential to private schooling is closed 3. This will take time but you are resisting a possible alternative which could improve matters today 4. Hence in pursuit of your perfect solution you are forcing children not as fortunate as your own to have a less good educational outcome 5. Additionally you are entrenching your daughter’s competitive advantage at the expense of those you are elected to serve
It’s not hypocrisy but it’s not a good fact pattern
Trump must be one of the few people in the world with greater vanity than Boris
Indeed. Boris is an amateur by comparison. But I think Trump is also dangerously unwell. I just wish the Americans would do something about the situation.
it is astonishing how we have become used to such silly tantrums and contradictions by a POTUS. It looks likely that our new PM will equal his egotistical clowning. There was a time that office holders tried to behave with dignity.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I think if someones says private schools are wrong, they shouldn't send their own children to one.
Imagine that I land a job as a City trader paying £750,000 per annum and I think it is deeply wrong that the job - which is a doddle - pays anything like this much.
Trump must be one of the few people in the world with greater vanity than Boris
Indeed. Boris is an amateur by comparison. But I think Trump is also dangerously unwell. I just wish the Americans would do something about the situation.
it is astonishing how we have become used to such silly tantrums and contradictions by a POTUS. It looks likely that our new PM will equal his egotistical clowning. There was a time that office holders tried to behave with dignity.
All sense of honour, public duty and statesmanship seems to have gone from politics. I have not known a worse time in my lifetime. It is truly appalling.
The difference between YouGov and Survation appears to be between the Labour and Green percentages. The Conservative Brexit and Lib Dem percentages are broadly the same.
Does Survation ask how someone would vote in his/her constituency ? That could easily account for the difference.
That Survation remains the most pro Labour biased pollster and got the European elections spectacularly wrong, having the Labour Party ahead of both the Brexit Party and LDs.
However in general terms it shows what every other pollster is showing ie unless and until Boris becomes Tory leader it will be a Labour minority government propped up by the LDs and SNP as the Brexit Party will continue to split the Tory vote.
Main difference with Survation from Yougov is its much higher Green vote at the expense of Labour
Imagine those votes will break tactically pro remain and anti Tory (so probably less Green but in certain seats possibly LD instead of either Lab/Green depending on events)
Trump must be one of the few people in the world with greater vanity than Boris
Indeed. Boris is an amateur by comparison. But I think Trump is also dangerously unwell. I just wish the Americans would do something about the situation.
it is astonishing how we have become used to such silly tantrums and contradictions by a POTUS. It looks likely that our new PM will equal his egotistical clowning. There was a time that office holders tried to behave with dignity.
All sense of honour, public duty and statesmanship seems to have gone from politics. I have not known a worse time in my lifetime. It is truly appalling.
To be honest my early memories of the immediate post war years were very upsetting but generally I agree we are in a terrible place and I do not see it improving quickly
See Diane Abbott is seeking Tom Watsons resignation.
Time he acted in everyone's interest and took over 100 labour mps out of labour and made a stand, unequivocably pro remain and 100% against anti semitism
Main difference with Survation from Yougov is its much higher Green vote at the expense of Labour
The Greens will not have a full set of candidates, so many Green supporters will effectively be forced to vote for other parties in many seats (usually LD, SNP or Plaid).
Main difference with Survation from Yougov is its much higher Green vote at the expense of Labour
The Greens will not have a full set of candidates, so many Green supporters will effectively be forced to vote for other parties in many seats (usually LD, SNP or Plaid).
I suspect that in England and possibly Wales there will be a number of target seats where Green or LD, possibly PC too stand aside. Not all, but enough.
Who would have thought a potential PM or Foreign Secretary might have to choose words that give clarity rather than allow them to ramble freely with whatever piffle they think the audience might like to hear?
That Survation remains the most pro Labour biased pollster and got the European elections spectacularly wrong, having the Labour Party ahead of both the Brexit Party and LDs.
However in general terms it shows what every other pollster is showing ie unless and until Boris becomes Tory leader it will be a Labour minority government propped up by the LDs and SNP as the Brexit Party will continue to split the Tory vote.
I lean more to KInabalu's view than yours. One's own principles should come second to the welfare of one's children/family. Although I'm in favour of community schooling, we have grammar schools here and I was happy to apply for a place for our daughter.
Another example is veganism: vegans shouldn't stop their children eating meat.
A good general rule is not to push one's own views on any controversial issue onto one's family. My father, a Conservative, was carefully respectful of my communism as a teenager, contenting himself with saying "Many people share your view - I don't myself, but you mustn't let that influence you." 20 years later, when I was standing for Parliament in his constituency and he asked if I'd be upset if he voted for someone else, I was so pleased to be able to return the compliment and urge him to go with his beliefs.
I expect that if he'd earlier said "stupid boy, I forbid you to express such opinions in my presence", I'd have grown up more intolerant myself.
If you were more intolerant of the anti-Sites infesting your party that would be a good thing
Predictable response, indeed other posters predicted it
The average voter does not spend hours studying Tory members polls, as far as they are concerned May is still Tory leader and Hunt could well succeed her.
Unless and until Boris is actually elected Tory leader any full Boris bounce will not filter through
Predictable response, indeed other posters predicted it
The average voter does not spend hours studying Tory members polls, as far as they are concerned May is still Tory leader and Hunt could well succeed her.
Unless and until Boris is actually elected Tory leader any full Boris bounce will not filter through
OT. Interesting news on Iran. It's seems the US are trying to provoke war but EU are dead against.and Britain is being caught in the middle. The commentator (a professor specialising in Middle Eastern affairs) suggested the UK under Johnson would have to choose between supporting John Bolton or the EU.
He suggested that Trump expects Johnson to line up behind the US.
So we once again find ourselves as America's favourite poodle and on the wrong side.
The US are trying to provoke war? What do you think Iran are up to, shooting down drones and trying to illegally seize vessels?
They signed a treaty as did the EU and have reneged on it. If the EU think reneging was wrong but Trump and Bolton are behind it I know where my support would go.
Sure although Iran has now reneged on the agreement they have with the E.U.
What are your thoughts on Iran trying to hijack a BP tanker yesterday?
The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action was the treaty between Iran and the P5+1 (that is the permanent members of the security council and Germany). The EU is not a signatory to the treaty.
The US withdrew from the treaty in May 2018 (without, I would note giving the required notice - President Trump simply announced they would not abide by it, and would reintroduce sacnctions). The US sanctions penalised firms - including non-US ones - for dealing with Iran, andt the EU attempted to nullify their affect via a blocking stature in August 2019.
However, most large (Western) firms chose to obey the US sanctions. (Simply, they didn't reckon the EU would be able to offset the impact of the US.) And in consequence a lot of the international commercial activity in Iran ground to a halt. This month Iran announced it would no longer abide by the terms of the treaty (as it was seeing no benefit) and had breached limits on uranium enrichment.
I should have said the EUropean countries not the EU
I have assumed that the P5+1 members signed jointly and severally?
If that is the case then despite the US action - which I am not supporting - then Iran has also repudiated
Odd there's such a big difference between the mean and the median...
Not really. Surely there are only 3 main possibilities around which people will cluster
Prior to / at 31 Oc 2022 2027 or longer
Lots of people will assume short (impacting the median) but those people saying 2022 (1000+ days) will have a disproportionate impact on the mean as 31 Oct is 100 days away
Main difference with Survation from Yougov is its much higher Green vote at the expense of Labour
The Greens will not have a full set of candidates, so many Green supporters will effectively be forced to vote for other parties in many seats (usually LD, SNP or Plaid).
Most will likely vote Labour on an anti-Tory tactical basis.
The economics are very sound. Top degrees is what people pay for. There is high demand. Increase the supply. QED.
Of course, as with currencies, there is a risk of the devaluation of the product but that's the next guy's problem.
The problem though is the clear impression that many students today who are being awarded First classhonours degrees would have fallen short of a 2.1 forty years ago for a given standard of work.
In 1976 my wife came second in a tear group of 130:pharmacists at university of Bradford but still only got a 2.1. Whilst I scraped a Desmond in Chem Eng by the skin of my teeth!
That Survation remains the most pro Labour biased pollster and got the European elections spectacularly wrong, having the Labour Party ahead of both the Brexit Party and LDs.
However in general terms it shows what every other pollster is showing ie unless and until Boris becomes Tory leader it will be a Labour minority government propped up by the LDs and SNP as the Brexit Party will continue to split the Tory vote.
Predictable response, indeed other posters predicted it
The average voter does not spend hours studying Tory members polls, as far as they are concerned May is still Tory leader and Hunt could well succeed her.
Unless and until Boris is actually elected Tory leader any full Boris bounce will not filter through
Oh come on even the stupidest of the stupid knows that Johnson is as good as PM if they don’t then they don’t even know where their nearest Burger King is
Comments
A principle is only a principle if you apply it to all situations. What you've written — "one's own principles should come second to the welfare of one's children/family" — doesn't make any sense, logically speaking. By definition, it cannot be a principle if you make an exception in certain circumstances.
However in general terms it shows what every other pollster is showing ie unless and until Boris becomes Tory leader it will be a Labour minority government propped up by the LDs and SNP as the Brexit Party will continue to split the Tory vote.
See Comres too
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1148312432768684032?s=20
YouGov
Verified account @YouGov
1m1 minute ago
Latest Westminster voting intention (9-10 July)
Con - 24%
Brexit Party - 21%
Lab - 20%
Lib Dem - 19%
Green - 9%
Other - 8%
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/07/12/voting-intention-con-24-brex-21-lab-20-lib-dem-19-?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=VI_10_July_2019 …
https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1149711059093250048
The US withdrew from the treaty in May 2018 (without, I would note giving the required notice - President Trump simply announced they would not abide by it, and would reintroduce sacnctions). The US sanctions penalised firms - including non-US ones - for dealing with Iran, andt the EU attempted to nullify their affect via a blocking stature in August 2019.
However, most large (Western) firms chose to obey the US sanctions. (Simply, they didn't reckon the EU would be able to offset the impact of the US.) And in consequence a lot of the international commercial activity in Iran ground to a halt. This month Iran announced it would no longer abide by the terms of the treaty (as it was seeing no benefit) and had breached limits on uranium enrichment.
1. Sending your kid to private school says you think this provides a better outcome for children
2. You believe in community schooling and - presumably - want to improve it such that the differential to private schooling is closed
3. This will take time but you are resisting a possible alternative which could improve matters today
4. Hence in pursuit of your perfect solution you are forcing children not as fortunate as your own to have a less good educational outcome
5. Additionally you are entrenching your daughter’s competitive advantage at the expense of those you are elected to serve
It’s not hypocrisy but it’s not a good fact pattern
Main difference more Brexit Party voters moving to the Tories
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1148312432768684032?s=20
See Diane Abbott is seeking Tom Watsons resignation.
Time he acted in everyone's interest and took over 100 labour mps out of labour and made a stand, unequivocably pro remain and 100% against anti semitism
Unless and until Boris is actually elected Tory leader any full Boris bounce will not filter through
I have assumed that the P5+1 members signed jointly and severally?
If that is the case then despite the US action - which I am not supporting - then Iran has also repudiated
Prior to / at 31 Oc
2022
2027 or longer
Lots of people will assume short (impacting the median) but those people saying 2022 (1000+ days) will have a disproportionate impact on the mean as 31 Oct is 100 days away
Or the usefulness