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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What does the UK’s next PM have to say about Trump’s latest ra

SystemSystem Posts: 11,008
edited July 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What does the UK’s next PM have to say about Trump’s latest racist Tweets?

One of the current big political issues in Washington at the moment is a series of Trump Tweets yesterday attacking elected female Democratic members of Congress for their criticism of him particularly over the regime he’s imposed on immigrants in border camps.

Read the full story here


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    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    First?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,947
    Have done with being outraged byTrump. Just hope Bolton doesn't talk him into War.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Boris's first PMQs will be in the autumn.
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    Good thread Mike. They were rather shocking tweets.

    He'll get away with it I'm sure. Boris is Boris, Donald is Donald
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    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    What does the next PM say about Trump?

    Boris will probably say the four Democrats have nice watermellon smiles etc...
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029
    It looks like the Brexit Party will be demanding that Boris sack Liam Fox for insufficient zeal.

    https://twitter.com/TiceRichard/status/1150720077085454336
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,290
    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,290

    Good thread Mike. They were rather shocking tweets.

    He'll get away with it I'm sure. Boris is Boris, Donald is Donald

    And yet Jeremy is not Jeremy, Jo is not Jo, etc.

    Very odd.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    The question we need to ask is, does this impact Trump's re-election chances ?
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Pulpstar said:

    The question we need to ask is, does this impact Trump's re-election chances ?

    I doubt it
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Good thread Mike. They were rather shocking tweets.

    He'll get away with it I'm sure. Boris is Boris, Donald is Donald

    And yet Jeremy is not Jeremy, Jo is not Jo, etc.

    Very odd.
    Labour party racism is vigorously opposed to people going back to where they originated from, if you think about it.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,390

    Pulpstar said:

    The question we need to ask is, does this impact Trump's re-election chances ?

    I doubt it
    I’m not sure about that; apart from anything else, it will almost certainly reduce the amount of Democratic infighting.

    ...probably the most overtly racist public comments that he’s made....

    Probably is a bit strong; there’s quite a bit of competition.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,390
    Ah, the some of my best friends defence (except he doesn’t have any friends, just courtiers and allies of convenience)...

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/453048-top-pence-aide-trumps-intent-wasnt-racist-in-attacks-on-progressive
    Short disputed the charge that Trump is racist, noting that he has an Asian-American Cabinet official in Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao. He also cited a naturalization ceremony for new citizens that Pence and Chao attended on Independence Day.

    Trump did not attend that ceremony, as he was at his golf club in Virginia.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544

    It looks like the Brexit Party will be demanding that Boris sack Liam Fox for insufficient zeal.

    https://twitter.com/TiceRichard/status/1150720077085454336

    Robespierre to the Guillotine!
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    edited July 2019
    Foxy said:

    It looks like the Brexit Party will be demanding that Boris sack Liam Fox for insufficient zeal.

    https://twitter.com/TiceRichard/status/1150720077085454336

    Robespierre to the Guillotine!
    I see Tice is back on about believing.

    When will these people grow up and realise, like adults do, that simply believing in things doesn't make them true.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Nigelb said:

    Ah, the some of my best friends defence (except he doesn’t have any friends, just courtiers and allies of convenience)...

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/453048-top-pence-aide-trumps-intent-wasnt-racist-in-attacks-on-progressive
    Short disputed the charge that Trump is racist, noting that he has an Asian-American Cabinet official in Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao. He also cited a naturalization ceremony for new citizens that Pence and Chao attended on Independence Day.

    Trump did not attend that ceremony, as he was at his golf club in Virginia.

    When is Elaine Chao going "home"?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2019
    Even by Trump standards, it is quite an incredible outburst.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    Pulpstar said:

    The question we need to ask is, does this impact Trump's re-election chances ?

    I doubt it
    It will play well with most of his base, many of whom, frankly, know that 'Make America Great Again' clearly means 'Make America White Again'.

    But 8% of blacks voted for him. 1 or 2% coming back to Dems could matter in 2020.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    Nigelb said:

    Ah, the some of my best friends defence (except he doesn’t have any friends, just courtiers and allies of convenience)...

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/453048-top-pence-aide-trumps-intent-wasnt-racist-in-attacks-on-progressive
    Short disputed the charge that Trump is racist, noting that he has an Asian-American Cabinet official in Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao. He also cited a naturalization ceremony for new citizens that Pence and Chao attended on Independence Day.

    Trump did not attend that ceremony, as he was at his golf club in Virginia.

    When is Elaine Chao going "home"?
    Given she was born in Taipei, I guess *where* is also a geopolitical question
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Clinton held an 80-point advantage among blacks (88% to 8%) compared with Obama’s 87-point edge four years ago (93% to 6%). (Pew Research)

    Biden or Harris could pull some of that back, especially if the Racist in Chief isn't kept away from Twitter.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Foxy said:

    It looks like the Brexit Party will be demanding that Boris sack Liam Fox for insufficient zeal.

    https://twitter.com/TiceRichard/status/1150720077085454336

    Robespierre to the Guillotine!
    I see Tice is back on about believing.

    When will these people grow up and realise, like adults do, that simply believing in things doesn't make them true.
    Not until they get us over the line protect their off shore tax havens and make a fortune out of chaos. Then the only work they will do is to turn the U.K. into a sink deregulated economy where they can make more money whilst the rest of the population can enjoy their hard won freedom
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I'm still waiting for that pivot to the centre.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    I'm still waiting for that pivot to the centre.

    From Trump or the democrats? Both seem to get going further to the extremes.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    Boris's first PMQs will be in the autumn.

    And that's if he is very lucky.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Boris Johnson follows the ideas of those he surrounds himself with. It looks as though he's going to surround himself with the most extreme Brexit zealots. Expect government policy to be set accordingly.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    The old imperial masters seem to crave imperial servitude. Stockholm syndrome?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    dixiedean said:

    Have done with being outraged byTrump. Just hope Bolton doesn't talk him into War.

    Yes, that is a massive worry.

    It would only take the Iranians to do something a bit stupid in the Strait on a day when Donald is in a foul mood because of his golf score and...
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Cyclefree said:

    ** checks in **

    ** sees people still going on about bloody cricket **

    ** checks out again **

    You can come back now. So far, not a word.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,390
    This is an interesting, and appalling story about the large scale non-investigation of rape evidence in the US. Does it go on here ?
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/08/an-epidemic-of-disbelief/592807/
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1150759486556180480

    That's definitely two for a VoNC I reckon. Clarke being the other.
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    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    The old imperial masters seem to crave imperial servitude. Stockholm syndrome?
    I think a more correct term in your strawman would be switches
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    eekeek Posts: 24,932

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1150759486556180480

    That's definitely two for a VoNC I reckon. Clarke being the other.

    May is probably a third - and there will be more. Just look for any sane Tory retiring or potentially in the near future...
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1150759486556180480

    That's definitely two for a VoNC I reckon. Clarke being the other.

    Surely Grieve, Lee and Bebb can be added too?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,390

    Nigelb said:

    Ah, the some of my best friends defence (except he doesn’t have any friends, just courtiers and allies of convenience)...

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/453048-top-pence-aide-trumps-intent-wasnt-racist-in-attacks-on-progressive
    Short disputed the charge that Trump is racist, noting that he has an Asian-American Cabinet official in Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao. He also cited a naturalization ceremony for new citizens that Pence and Chao attended on Independence Day.

    Trump did not attend that ceremony, as he was at his golf club in Virginia.

    When is Elaine Chao going "home"?
    As a fellow grifter, she gets a pass.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/elaine-chao-diverted-federal-grants-to-kentucky-report-2019-6?r=US&IR=T
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    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,201
    edited July 2019
    While it is pretty insane that the President of a nation of immigrants should tell anyone to "go home", the despicable Trump has lowered expectations to the point that most people just shrug.

    However I do think that this could be the alt-right's last hurrah on both sides of the pond. The level of corruption and lies may be corrosive of democracy in general, but the polls are showing that the right are indeed getting the blame first. Meanwhile the demographic that almost literally sold its soul to Trump- the religious right and the NRA- are facing meltdown. While I know we are supposed to be scared of the boogeyman, the fact is that Trump is seen as being a weak and cowardly leader (and indeed a vile and unpleasant human being).

    Farage as the giggling accolyte to Trump is unpopular in the extreme and if there is wrong doing at TBP concerning the leaks of Sir Kim Darroch's cables, then I think that the "Perp Walk" of any TBP figure will concentrate quite a few minds.

    Equally, allying to Trump will make Johnson even more unpopular than he already is- and lets face it, Johnson could only win a GE by gaming the FPTP system in the same way that Trump did, because the chances look pretty low that he even breaks 26% of the vote. Trumpism- corrupt and Russian supported, is deeply unpopular and if Johnson allies himself to it, he will be shackling himself to a political corpse.

    The UK situation is of course still very volatile, but whereas Theresa May gets some pity, and even some respect, Johnson will have no honeymoon at all. Adding support for Trump to the charge list of recklessness and arrogant incompetence could will be the straw that breaks the Tory back. I think TBP will mirror UKIP or even the Referendum Party and hurt the Tories without winning enough themselves, but meanwhile the Tories get strung up by the Liberal Democrats. In 1997 the Tories lost more than half their seats. I wonder what the odds are that they do even worse at the next election?

    The longer they leave it the more likely that events conspire to kill them off.

    By the way... these are not just my thoughts- several Conservatives have said the same things to me, they genuinely say that the chances of survival for the Tories are increasingly remote, and several of them actually welcome the reckoning that they think the party will get.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,970
    Mr. Cicero, entirely possible that's mostly true but that the pro-EU side then overcook things.

    Suppose we get a second referendum, and remain. There will be some who will want to avoid us ever 'leaving' again and so integrate us even more simply to make it impossible or extra painful to leave. That very act could spur the resentment of some and awaken it in others.

    I forget the names, but during the downfall of the Han dynasty, when it was still possible for the situation to be rescued, an amnesty was refused for rebels who just wanted to come in from the cold. As a result, they had nothing to lose and continued to rebel, and ended up playing a part in the dynasty's destruction.

    No action will please everyone. But a majority on both sides must be at least wearily content with the settlement or one side or the other will seek to overturn it at the first opportunity.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2019
    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1150759486556180480

    That's definitely two for a VoNC I reckon. Clarke being the other.

    May is probably a third - and there will be more. Just look for any sane Tory retiring or potentially in the near future...
    There is nothing 'sane' about prostrating yourself as supplicants saying you will accept any deal whatsoever no matter how bad.

    Whether that be with the EU or USA either way it is insane.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    Cicero said:

    While it is pretty insane that the President of a nation of immigrants should tell anyone to "go home", the despicable Trump has lowered expectations to the point that most people just shrug.

    The tweets are designed for Trump's base who as with a lot of older people here probably agree with the view but are sensible enough not to say it out loud...

    I suspect these tweets will look very mild compared to the ones we will see in September onwards next year...
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    "Go home" messages are completely vile I agree and anyone behind them is a despicable person unworthy of office.
    https://twitter.com/ColinYeo1/status/1131864901666910208
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,497

    Boris Johnson follows the ideas of those he surrounds himself with. It looks as though he's going to surround himself with the most extreme Brexit zealots. Expect government policy to be set accordingly.

    The sense I get, on the contrary, is that Boris is holding to a position in order to be unassailable in winning the contest to be leader, and that is all we know for sure. While this tells us something about his style it is perfectly possible, and likely, that he has plans of which not a word has been said and may have little relation to what has been said.

    In addition he will be under the direction of events outside his command, including the constant imminent threat of losing a VONC even from day 1.

    Putting these together we are trying to predict the 1967 Grand National. Fun, but not realistic.

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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    It’s very unlikely any Tory MP will VONC their own government . But if they defect or resign the Whip beforehand then that nuclear option is more possible .

    Those against no deal will do everything possible to rule that out by legislation.

    Of more immediate interest is what happens next week when the new PM is announced , the optics of Bozo entering no 10 and at the same time some defections to the Lib Dems or Whip resignations could effectively wipe out the Tories working majority.

    Dominic Grieve won’t defect , more likely resign the whip together with Guto Bebb and Philip Lee .

    Justine Greening could move to the Lib Dems , at the same time I expect Sarah Wollaston to do the same .

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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,659

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1150759486556180480

    That's definitely two for a VoNC I reckon. Clarke being the other.

    They are at least 10, probably close to 30 in number but they are certainly not for a VONC.

    They will actually be very creative to avoid a VONC as they were last time. They will however VONC if and only if that is the last option available to stop no deal (or somehow Boris has prorogued and we have left and he sheepishly brings parliament back).

    The threat of a VONC is obviously a card can they play to avoid the actual VONC.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    The correct answer is “nothing”

    We know the current POTUS is a racist jerk.

    Saying that publicly doesn’t gain anything for the UK.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    Nigelb said:

    Ah, the some of my best friends defence (except he doesn’t have any friends, just courtiers and allies of convenience)...

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/453048-top-pence-aide-trumps-intent-wasnt-racist-in-attacks-on-progressive
    Short disputed the charge that Trump is racist, noting that he has an Asian-American Cabinet official in Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao. He also cited a naturalization ceremony for new citizens that Pence and Chao attended on Independence Day.

    Trump did not attend that ceremony, as he was at his golf club in Virginia.

    When is Elaine Chao going "home"?
    Given she was born in Taipei, I guess *where* is also a geopolitical question
    I remember the first time I saw a Taiwanese passport, it surprised me at first then 15 minutes and a couple of Google searches later I was like "Oh, Taipei considers (People's republic of) China, part of ITS hinterland !"
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    We’re not supplicant

    The UK can function perfectly well without a US trade deal

    If one makes sense for both sides then great, if not then whatever
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited July 2019
    Just catching up on the three Westminster VI polls published at the weekend.

    YouGov and Survation have published the detailed tables, per BPC rules, but not ComRes (why?)

    The numbers are absolutely dreadful for Ruth Davidson and Richard Leonard, and cheerful reading for Nicola Sturgeon and Willie Rennie. Jo Swinson is going to inherit a lovely start on home ground (about doubled support), but is she capable of nurturing it?

    Ruthie is a spent force, and there is no love lost between her and her new master Boris the Clown. I doubt she has the guts to stay, get gubbed at the next election, and thus lose her halo. Best to go before everybody notices that you were crap all along.

    https://www.survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/General-Election-Voting-Intention-July-12-2019.xlsx

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/28gnxojyae/TheTimes_190710_VI_Trackers_w.pdf
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    edited July 2019
    Cicero said:

    While it is pretty insane that the President of a nation of immigrants should tell anyone to "go home", the despicable Trump has lowered expectations to the point that most people just shrug.

    However I do think that this could be the alt-right's last hurrah on both sides of the pond. The level of corruption and lies may be corrosive of democracy in general, but the polls are showing that the right are indeed getting the blame first. Meanwhile the demographic that almost literally sold its soul to Trump- the religious right and the NRA- are facing meltdown. While I know we are supposed to be scared of the boogeyman, the fact is that Trump is seen as being a weak and cowardly leader (and indeed a vile and unpleasant human being).

    Farage as the giggling accolyte to Trump is unpopular in the extreme and if there is wrong doing at TBP concerning the leaks of Sir Kim Darroch's cables, then I think that the "Perp Walk" of any TBP figure will concentrate quite a few minds.

    Equally, allying to Trump will make Johnson even more unpopular than he already is- and lets face it, Johnson could only win a GE by gaming the FPTP system in the same way that Trump did, because the chances look pretty low that he even breaks 26% of the vote. Trumpism- corrupt and Russian supported, is deeply unpopular and if Johnson allies himself to it, he will be shackling himself to a political corpse.

    The UK situation is of course still very volatile, but whereas Theresa May gets some pity, and even some respect, Johnson will have no honeymoon at all. Adding support for Trump to the charge list of recklessness and arrogant incompetence could will be the straw that breaks the Tory back. I think TBP will mirror UKIP or even the Referendum Party and hurt the Tories without winning enough themselves, but meanwhile the Tories get strung up by the Liberal Democrats. In 1997 the Tories lost more than half their seats. I wonder what the odds are that they do even worse at the next election?

    The longer they leave it the more likely that events conspire to kill them off.

    By the way... these are not just my thoughts- several Conservatives have said the same things to me, they genuinely say that the chances of survival for the Tories are increasingly remote, and several of them actually welcome the reckoning that they think the party will get.

    The 45% who favour right wing parties aren't going to vanish, even if the Conservatives do. They'll just vote for another right wing party, probably more right wing than the Conservatives.

    At the moment, I'd expect Trump to be re-elected.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,137
    Well I suppose we have a long and proud history of pandering to disgusting leaders of dysfunctional regimes for commercial reasons.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,659
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,399

    It looks like the Brexit Party will be demanding that Boris sack Liam Fox for insufficient zeal.

    https://twitter.com/TiceRichard/status/1150720077085454336

    We just need to believe! Puts me in mind of an old Christmas tune by Greg Lake

    They said there'll be a deal for Brexit
    They said it'll be easiest on Earth
    But instead the House kept on rejecting
    Withdrawal agreement: strangled at birth
    I remember twenty-ninth March Morning
    A springtime light and Cameron's bête noire
    With a snarl out of hell, Farage we know well
    His eyes full of hatred and fire

    They sold me a dream of Brexit
    They told me about British might
    They told me a fairy story
    'Till I believed their xenophobic shite
    And I believed in Boris Johnson
    And I looked to the future with excited eyes
    'Till I woke with a yawn in the first Light of dawn
    And I saw him and through his disguise

    I wish you a hopeful Brexit
    I wish you a brave new era
    All anguish pain and sadness
    Leave your Heart and let your road be clear
    They said there'll be deals so easy
    Global Britain bestriding Earth
    Will BMW directors save us? Will they hell
    The Brexit we get we deserve
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ah, the some of my best friends defence (except he doesn’t have any friends, just courtiers and allies of convenience)...

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/453048-top-pence-aide-trumps-intent-wasnt-racist-in-attacks-on-progressive
    Short disputed the charge that Trump is racist, noting that he has an Asian-American Cabinet official in Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao. He also cited a naturalization ceremony for new citizens that Pence and Chao attended on Independence Day.

    Trump did not attend that ceremony, as he was at his golf club in Virginia.

    When is Elaine Chao going "home"?
    Given she was born in Taipei, I guess *where* is also a geopolitical question
    I remember the first time I saw a Taiwanese passport, it surprised me at first then 15 minutes and a couple of Google searches later I was like "Oh, Taipei considers (People's republic of) China, part of ITS hinterland !"
    Of course they do. It’s still the successor state 🤫
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    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    edited July 2019
    Because they include Sinn Fein who don't attend...
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Charles said:

    The correct answer is “nothing”

    We know the current POTUS is a racist jerk.

    Saying that publicly doesn’t gain anything for the UK.

    Since when is opposing racism only a question of personal gain or loss? Surely there are certain universal principles where we have to just speak up, irrespective of consideration for gain?
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703
    Selebian said:

    It looks like the Brexit Party will be demanding that Boris sack Liam Fox for insufficient zeal.

    https://twitter.com/TiceRichard/status/1150720077085454336

    We just need to believe! Puts me in mind of an old Christmas tune by Greg Lake

    They said there'll be a deal for Brexit
    They said it'll be easiest on Earth
    But instead the House kept on rejecting
    Withdrawal agreement: strangled at birth
    I remember twenty-ninth March Morning
    A springtime light and Cameron's bête noire
    With a snarl out of hell, Farage we know well
    His eyes full of hatred and fire

    They sold me a dream of Brexit
    They told me about British might
    They told me a fairy story
    'Till I believed their xenophobic shite
    And I believed in Boris Johnson
    And I looked to the future with excited eyes
    'Till I woke with a yawn in the first Light of dawn
    And I saw him and through his disguise

    I wish you a hopeful Brexit
    I wish you a brave new era
    All anguish pain and sadness
    Leave your Heart and let your road be clear
    They said there'll be deals so easy
    Global Britain bestriding Earth
    Will BMW directors save us? Will they hell
    The Brexit we get we deserve
    Great! Looking forward to more posts in verse.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,970
    Mr. Charles, for now. I wouldn't be surprised if the PRC decided to formally (and militarily) acquire Taiwan.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    kinabalu said:

    Well I suppose we have a long and proud history of pandering to disgusting leaders of dysfunctional regimes for commercial reasons.

    Who doesn't?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Charles said:

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    We’re not supplicant

    The UK can function perfectly well without a US trade deal

    If one makes sense for both sides then great, if not then whatever
    Funny how people can see that is blindingly obvious for the US but switch the name US with EU and you are "insane" . . .
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Selebian said:

    It looks like the Brexit Party will be demanding that Boris sack Liam Fox for insufficient zeal.

    https://twitter.com/TiceRichard/status/1150720077085454336

    We just need to believe! Puts me in mind of an old Christmas tune by Greg Lake

    They said there'll be a deal for Brexit
    They said it'll be easiest on Earth
    But instead the House kept on rejecting
    Withdrawal agreement: strangled at birth
    I remember twenty-ninth March Morning
    A springtime light and Cameron's bête noire
    With a snarl out of hell, Farage we know well
    His eyes full of hatred and fire

    They sold me a dream of Brexit
    They told me about British might
    They told me a fairy story
    'Till I believed their xenophobic shite
    And I believed in Boris Johnson
    And I looked to the future with excited eyes
    'Till I woke with a yawn in the first Light of dawn
    And I saw him and through his disguise

    I wish you a hopeful Brexit
    I wish you a brave new era
    All anguish pain and sadness
    Leave your Heart and let your road be clear
    They said there'll be deals so easy
    Global Britain bestriding Earth
    Will BMW directors save us? Will they hell
    The Brexit we get we deserve
    Very good, especially the final line. England is certainly reaping what she has sowed.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,137
    Pulpstar said:

    The question we need to ask is, does this impact Trump's re-election chances ?

    I would have thought he has the racist vote locked up already and so this sort of thing will, if anything, damage him.

    Hard to imagine there are many Americans thinking that if Trump could only be a touch MORE racist then they might make the effort to drag themselves off the porch, put their rifle down and vote for him.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029

    Charles said:

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    We’re not supplicant

    The UK can function perfectly well without a US trade deal

    If one makes sense for both sides then great, if not then whatever
    Funny how people can see that is blindingly obvious for the US but switch the name US with EU and you are "insane" . . .
    If you struggle to understand that, imagine California was leaving the USA. A deep trade deal with the USA would be essential not to screw their economy, but a trade deal with the EU would be somewhere between nice to have and irrelevant.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited July 2019

    Funny how people can see that is blindingly obvious for the US but switch the name US with EU and you are "insane" . . .

    Correct. You have to be insane to willfully fail to appreciate the difference between not entering into a trade deal in the first place, and crashing out in chaos from a long-standing single market and customs union, with supply chains and business models based on very close economic integration.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029
    Charles said:

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    We’re not supplicant

    The UK can function perfectly well without a US trade deal

    If one makes sense for both sides then great, if not then whatever
    It's too important to the psychology of those Brexiteers who see it as a project to unite the 'Anglosphere'. Take away both a US trade deal and a CANZUK alliance and what's the point?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/723547810633777152
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,970
    Mr. Thompson, one no deal (the US) means no change, the other (the EU) means a significant change.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,947

    Mr. Charles, for now. I wouldn't be surprised if the PRC decided to formally (and militarily) acquire Taiwan.

    Will not be militarily simple. If it were, it would have been done already. The Taiwanese are trained, tooled up, and it is difficult to think of anywhere more suited to guerrilla warfare. The loss of life could be astonishingly high.
    Formally, of course there is only one China. With two governments.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    GMB is best union!
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1150759486556180480

    That's definitely two for a VoNC I reckon. Clarke being the other.

    May is probably a third - and there will be more. Just look for any sane Tory retiring or potentially in the near future...
    No way.

    You genuinely think that the outgoing Con leader and PM is about to immediately VoNC the incoming Con leader and PM? That would be unprecedented in not just English history, but world history. Surely not??
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,970
    Mr. Dean, astute points.

    On the other hand, Xi has beefed up China's military and has been using it to test the Japanese over the disputed islands (incidentally, Taiwan claims those too), and seize half the South China Sea, de facto.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Funny how people can see that is blindingly obvious for the US but switch the name US with EU and you are "insane" . . .

    Correct. You have to be insane to willfully fail to appreciate the difference between not entering into a trade deal in the first place, and crashing out in chaos from a long-standing single market and customs union, with supply chains and business models based on very close economic integration.
    Their insanity is obvious to the sane, but invisible to themselves.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    edited July 2019

    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1150759486556180480

    That's definitely two for a VoNC I reckon. Clarke being the other.

    May is probably a third - and there will be more. Just look for any sane Tory retiring or potentially in the near future...
    No way.

    You genuinely think that the outgoing Con leader and PM is about to immediately VoNC the incoming Con leader and PM? That would be unprecedented in not just English history, but world history. Surely not??
    We aren't talking about a VoNC next Thursday but one in late September / October...
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Charles said:

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    We’re not supplicant

    The UK can function perfectly well without a US trade deal

    If one makes sense for both sides then great, if not then whatever
    It's too important to the psychology of those Brexiteers who see it as a project to unite the 'Anglosphere'. Take away both a US trade deal and a CANZUK alliance and what's the point?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/723547810633777152
    I dunno, the whole concept of governing oneself.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    Can’t wait for Corbynistas to start calling GMB a Tory union or something.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,970
    Mr. D, aye. No deal wasn't in the offing in the referendum campaign, and nor was the customs union.

    Humbuggery galore.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1150759486556180480

    That's definitely two for a VoNC I reckon. Clarke being the other.

    May is probably a third - and there will be more. Just look for any sane Tory retiring or potentially in the near future...
    No way.

    You genuinely think that the outgoing Con leader and PM is about to immediately VoNC the incoming Con leader and PM? That would be unprecedented in not just English history, but world history. Surely not??
    I can't see May doing it. She is grassroots Tory to her fingernails.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029
    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    We’re not supplicant

    The UK can function perfectly well without a US trade deal

    If one makes sense for both sides then great, if not then whatever
    It's too important to the psychology of those Brexiteers who see it as a project to unite the 'Anglosphere'. Take away both a US trade deal and a CANZUK alliance and what's the point?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/723547810633777152
    I dunno, the whole concept of governing oneself.
    The trouble is you start out wanting to govern yourself, and end up being governed by Boris Johnson instead...
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    Charles said:

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    We’re not supplicant

    The UK can function perfectly well without a US trade deal

    If one makes sense for both sides then great, if not then whatever
    It's too important to the psychology of those Brexiteers who see it as a project to unite the 'Anglosphere'. Take away both a US trade deal and a CANZUK alliance and what's the point?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/723547810633777152
    These people are idiots. We are always going to trade more with Europe - it's called geography.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    eek said:

    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1150759486556180480

    That's definitely two for a VoNC I reckon. Clarke being the other.

    May is probably a third - and there will be more. Just look for any sane Tory retiring or potentially in the near future...
    No way.

    You genuinely think that the outgoing Con leader and PM is about to immediately VoNC the incoming Con leader and PM? That would be unprecedented in not just English history, but world history. Surely not??

    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1150759486556180480

    That's definitely two for a VoNC I reckon. Clarke being the other.

    May is probably a third - and there will be more. Just look for any sane Tory retiring or potentially in the near future...
    No way.

    You genuinely think that the outgoing Con leader and PM is about to immediately VoNC the incoming Con leader and PM? That would be unprecedented in not just English history, but world history. Surely not??
    We aren't talking about a VoNC next Thursday but one in late September / October...
    I know that Theresa May is no Boris fan, but I just find it inconceivable that she would ever VoNC the leader of her beloved Tory party.

    May is incredibly wobbly in many ways, but surely nobody could doubt that she is a textbook example of a partisan. She will be Tory till the day she dies. Or the party dies, which looks like being the earlier event.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Scott_P said:
    He has to make an emergency trip to his own HQ?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    We’re not supplicant

    The UK can function perfectly well without a US trade deal

    If one makes sense for both sides then great, if not then whatever
    It's too important to the psychology of those Brexiteers who see it as a project to unite the 'Anglosphere'. Take away both a US trade deal and a CANZUK alliance and what's the point?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/723547810633777152
    I dunno, the whole concept of governing oneself.
    Britain governs itself. Only the demented imagine otherwise.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,137
    Sean_F said:

    Who doesn't?

    I suppose most 'big' countries do to an extent. Not all to the same extent though.

    On this one a key practical question is - if we pander to this piece of scum will it get us a significantly better trade deal than if we don't?

    My sense is probably not. In which case it might well be better not to.

    Plus - god willing - he will be gone soon.
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    TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    FPT

    Rewatching the overthrow delivery it looked like it was over waist height.

    So England were denied a free hit.

    I like your thinking there - also there would have been an extra run for the no ball.

    But... do you think this would have been over waist height had Stokes been standing straight?

    (41.7.1 Any delivery, which passes or would have passed, without pitching, above waist height of the striker standing upright at the popping crease, is to be deemed to be unfair, whether or not it is likely to inflict physical injury on the striker. If the bowler bowls such a delivery the umpire shall immediately call and signal No ball.)


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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,970
    Mr. Glenn, Boris is an oaf but the focus of the national interest is not upon a single PM but the long-standing position of the United Kingdom and what is in our collective interest.

    Being pro- or anti-EU because a blonde cretin is the probable next PM is foolish.

    Unfortunately, the political class has behaved so wretchedly that we have an array of bad options, and the dithering has only intensified the poisonous political atmosphere.
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,399

    Selebian said:

    It looks like the Brexit Party will be demanding that Boris sack Liam Fox for insufficient zeal.

    https://twitter.com/TiceRichard/status/1150720077085454336

    We just need to believe! Puts me in mind of an old Christmas tune by Greg Lake

    They said there'll be a deal for Brexit
    They said it'll be easiest on Earth
    But instead the House kept on rejecting
    Withdrawal agreement: strangled at birth
    I remember twenty-ninth March Morning
    A springtime light and Cameron's bête noire
    With a snarl out of hell, Farage we know well
    His eyes full of hatred and fire

    They sold me a dream of Brexit
    They told me about British might
    They told me a fairy story
    'Till I believed their xenophobic shite
    And I believed in Boris Johnson
    And I looked to the future with excited eyes
    'Till I woke with a yawn in the first Light of dawn
    And I saw him and through his disguise

    I wish you a hopeful Brexit
    I wish you a brave new era
    All anguish pain and sadness
    Leave your Heart and let your road be clear
    They said there'll be deals so easy
    Global Britain bestriding Earth
    Will BMW directors save us? Will they hell
    The Brexit we get we deserve
    Very good, especially the final line. England is certainly reaping what she has sowed.
    I hope you'll look kindly on refugees from the south if Scotland manages to escape somehow!
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029

    Mr. Glenn, Boris is an oaf but the focus of the national interest is not upon a single PM but the long-standing position of the United Kingdom and what is in our collective interest.

    If you were worried about the collective interest of the United Kingdom, you would be very wary of riding roughshod over the views of Scotland and Northern Ireland.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    We’re not supplicant

    The UK can function perfectly well without a US trade deal

    If one makes sense for both sides then great, if not then whatever
    It's too important to the psychology of those Brexiteers who see it as a project to unite the 'Anglosphere'. Take away both a US trade deal and a CANZUK alliance and what's the point?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/723547810633777152
    I dunno, the whole concept of governing oneself.
    Britain governs itself. Only the demented imagine otherwise.
    Given that it can’t even cut a tax on tampons, I wouldn’t be so sure.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Mr. Glenn, Boris is an oaf but the focus of the national interest is not upon a single PM but the long-standing position of the United Kingdom and what is in our collective interest.

    Being pro- or anti-EU because a blonde cretin is the probable next PM is foolish.

    Unfortunately, the political class has behaved so wretchedly that we have an array of bad options, and the dithering has only intensified the poisonous political atmosphere.

    Brexit has no good options. The manifold fanciful ones put forward by Leavers bear witness to that. They were never prepared to make hard choices. And now they’re panicking and seeking to suspend democracy to impose a solution that they campaigned against as Project Fear in the referendum campaign.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Charles said:

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    We’re not supplicant

    The UK can function perfectly well without a US trade deal

    If one makes sense for both sides then great, if not then whatever
    It's too important to the psychology of those Brexiteers who see it as a project to unite the 'Anglosphere'. Take away both a US trade deal and a CANZUK alliance and what's the point?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/723547810633777152
    These people are idiots. We are always going to trade more with Europe - it's called geography.
    English wine shelves are row upon row of Australian, NZ, Californian, SA etc wines, and very, very skimpy on the infinitely better products of her immediate geographical neighbours to the south and east.

    English wine consumers clearly are idiots, but fortunately for the country her businesspeople are not ideologues. They know that when it comes to procurement and export, geography is more important than language.
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    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    It looks like the Brexit Party will be demanding that Boris sack Liam Fox for insufficient zeal.

    https://twitter.com/TiceRichard/status/1150720077085454336

    We just need to believe! Puts me in mind of an old Christmas tune by Greg Lake

    They said there'll be a deal for Brexit
    They said it'll be easiest on Earth
    But instead the House kept on rejecting
    Withdrawal agreement: strangled at birth
    I remember twenty-ninth March Morning
    A springtime light and Cameron's bête noire
    With a snarl out of hell, Farage we know well
    His eyes full of hatred and fire

    They sold me a dream of Brexit
    They told me about British might
    They told me a fairy story
    'Till I believed their xenophobic shite
    And I believed in Boris Johnson
    And I looked to the future with excited eyes
    'Till I woke with a yawn in the first Light of dawn
    And I saw him and through his disguise

    I wish you a hopeful Brexit
    I wish you a brave new era
    All anguish pain and sadness
    Leave your Heart and let your road be clear
    They said there'll be deals so easy
    Global Britain bestriding Earth
    Will BMW directors save us? Will they hell
    The Brexit we get we deserve
    Very good, especially the final line. England is certainly reaping what she has sowed.
    I hope you'll look kindly on refugees from the south if Scotland manages to escape somehow!
    iScot will need all the refugees it can get given the outflow that will go in the opposite direction
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Scott_P said:
    I am not sure what anyone is supposed to make of that sort of info.

    They are hardly going to do a big mea cupla type press conference and resign.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029

    iScot will need all the refugees it can get given the outflow that will go in the opposite direction

    I understand you left ukScot long ago?
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    Charles said:

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    We’re not supplicant

    The UK can function perfectly well without a US trade deal

    If one makes sense for both sides then great, if not then whatever
    It's too important to the psychology of those Brexiteers who see it as a project to unite the 'Anglosphere'. Take away both a US trade deal and a CANZUK alliance and what's the point?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/723547810633777152
    These people are idiots. We are always going to trade more with Europe - it's called geography.
    English wine shelves are row upon row of Australian, NZ, Californian, SA etc wines, and very, very skimpy on the infinitely better products of her immediate geographical neighbours to the south and east.

    English wine consumers clearly are idiots, but fortunately for the country her businesspeople are not ideologues. They know that when it comes to procurement and export, geography is more important than language.
    Lol another german wine drinking cybernat - they really are quite uncouth to go with being off their rockers
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    We’re not supplicant

    The UK can function perfectly well without a US trade deal

    If one makes sense for both sides then great, if not then whatever
    It's too important to the psychology of those Brexiteers who see it as a project to unite the 'Anglosphere'. Take away both a US trade deal and a CANZUK alliance and what's the point?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/723547810633777152
    I dunno, the whole concept of governing oneself.
    Britain governs itself. Only the demented imagine otherwise.
    Given that it can’t even cut a tax on tampons, I wouldn’t be so sure.
    Fortunately for the Dad’s Army Leavers, it still has the power to declare war on Brussels.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,390

    Mr. Glenn, Boris is an oaf but....

    Never a convincing way to start a point.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    'Supplicant', Mike? I thought our Soveriegnity was about to return once we threw off the cursed yoke of the EU.

    Surely we are not replacing servitude to the EU with servitude to the USA?

    We’re not supplicant

    The UK can function perfectly well without a US trade deal

    If one makes sense for both sides then great, if not then whatever
    It's too important to the psychology of those Brexiteers who see it as a project to unite the 'Anglosphere'. Take away both a US trade deal and a CANZUK alliance and what's the point?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/723547810633777152
    I dunno, the whole concept of governing oneself.
    Britain governs itself. Only the demented imagine otherwise.
    Given that it can’t even cut a tax on tampons, I wouldn’t be so sure.
    Fortunately for the Dad’s Army Leavers, it still has the power to declare war on Brussels.
    Yes, it retained some self-governance. :p
This discussion has been closed.