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  • ydoethur said:

    Convicts cheating again...

    Steve Smith is fairly blatantly the man setting the field for Australia at the moment. He is still banned by Cricket Australia from holding a leadership position for another year.

    If he's going to set them so the number 10 can put in any half century stand, let's not complain.
    Lock him up, lock him up....
    If Priti Patel wants to get my support, and the support of the country, she should deport the cheat Steve Smith now.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088

    I agree with @rcs1000 upthread.

    I want to support the Lib Dems, I *do* support the Lib Dems, but they need to get their shit together. There is no time to lose.

    They need to be hammering just two messages:

    1. Labour is enabling a No Deal Brexit

    2. Lib Dem’s single minded policy is to enable a government of national unity which will call a referendum on an impartial, fully and fairly explained “Remain” and “Brexit”.

    Oh and they need to junk the university fees, or find some other formula that means we are not saddling an entire generation with debts of up to £100k upon graduation. It’s their Clause 4.

    If youre looking for clarity you're looking in the wrong place (except on Brexit). Work with Labour? Well, maybe. But not a coalition. Well, not with Corbyn. Work with the Tories? Well, not over Brexit. With Boris? Well, it hasn't come up. Austerity? Was a good thing, but maybe too much. Time to stop it anyway. Well, within reason.

    I don't dislike the LibDems. Hell, I'm in coalition with them. But if you rely on them to do anything in particular nationally, you're building on sand.
    In a parallel universe somewhere, Miliband won the 2010 election and Ed Balls got to implement his spending programme. I wonder what Labour are saying there about austerity?
  • What is the point of Tim Paine?
  • Like England miss Archer to mop up the tail, Ozzies miss Starc. Broad would be pooping his pants at the prospect of 95mph Starc bouncers and yorkers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    What is the point of Tim Paine?

    He's a wicked keeper.
  • It only takes shit owners a few years to destroy a club.

    I still have nightmares about Hicks and Gillett, in the space of three years they took Liverpool from Champions League finalists to near bankruptcy.

    If it could happen to Liverpool it can happen to anyone, so solidarity with Bury, Bolton, Coventry, et al.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    What this really is doing is putting Bairstow, Butler, Ali, the entire Australian top order except Smith and to a lesser extent Roy and Denly in perspective.

    All they've done is knock the ball into gaps and they've out on a nice 50 at three an over.

    Try to thrash it around and you get out and look a fool.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, your Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!
    Apparently he wants to do what his grandfather did - call himself George VII to avoid any embarrassing parallels.
    His grandfather was Bert, wasn't he?
    Albert Frederick Arthur George. Bertie to friends and family, took the regnal name George.

    Charles is Charles Phillip Arthur George.
    He could do worse than Charles II though. He had a reasonably good record in reconciling a deeply divided Kingdom.
    And shagging everything with a vagina.

    And, of course, the last king to prorogue Parliament and rule directly, although people often forget that.

    And leaving a major succession crisis that erupted into civil war in two years and revolution followed by war in Ireland in three.

    Apart from that, he was a dazzling success.

    (Fun fact - if he becomes King, William will be the first descendant of Charles II to be King.)
    TBF the major succession crisis wasn’t his fault.
  • Like England miss Archer to mop up the tail, Ozzies miss Starc. Broad would be pooping his pants at the prospect of 95mph Starc bouncers and yorkers.

    Starc's average is a bit shit since the Cape Town test, I cannot imagine why his average has increased.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Only in Test cricket would the commentators spend several minutes talking about an entirely different sport.

    Ah, crikkit.

    If we get a lead of 100 we win?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    What is the point of Tim Paine?

    He's a captain who won't encourage a young player to cheat. Seems like an asset for most teams.
  • I have resigned from the Labour Party
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, your Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!
    Apparently he wants to do what his grandfather did - call himself George VII to avoid any embarrassing parallels.
    His grandfather was Bert, wasn't he?
    Albert Frederick Arthur George. Bertie to friends and family, took the regnal name George.

    Charles is Charles Phillip Arthur George.
    He could do worse than Charles II though. He had a reasonably good record in reconciling a deeply divided Kingdom.
    And shagging everything with a vagina.

    And, of course, the last king to prorogue Parliament and rule directly, although people often forget that.

    And leaving a major succession crisis that erupted into civil war in two years and revolution followed by war in Ireland in three.

    Apart from that, he was a dazzling success.

    (Fun fact - if he becomes King, William will be the first descendant of Charles II to be King.)
    TBF the major succession crisis wasn’t his fault.
    His persistent refusal to divorce his queen and marry somebody who could have children, or use the Henry VIII precedent to nominate Monmouth as his heir could be seen as an unfortunate mistake.

    He must have known James would be an impossible choice as King, for all James' qualities.
  • ydoethur said:

    What this really is doing is putting Bairstow, Butler, Ali, the entire Australian top order except Smith and to a lesser extent Roy and Denly in perspective.

    All they've done is knock the ball into gaps and they've out on a nice 50 at three an over.

    Try to thrash it around and you get out and look a fool.

    The same was true with Siddle batting. He is no rabbit, but he isn't exactly a world beater and yet he stuck around for ages.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    Byronic said:



    But the Lib Dems really will deliver a 2nd referendum, and really will campaign hard for Remain, if they ever get a sniff of power.

    For millions of Brits, that is all that matters, all that will matter, for years to come.

    Yes, but there you immediately run into another LibDem ambiguity. What if we have in fact withdrawn on October 31. Is LibDem policy to reapply?

    I have no clue. Do you? Have they even discussed it?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    *applauds*
  • I have resigned from the Labour Party

    I'm not sure whether to applaud you or feel sorry for you.

    All I know it must have been a difficult decision.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:



    But the Lib Dems really will deliver a 2nd referendum, and really will campaign hard for Remain, if they ever get a sniff of power.

    For millions of Brits, that is all that matters, all that will matter, for years to come.

    Yes, but there you immediately run into another LibDem ambiguity. What if we have in fact withdrawn on October 31. Is LibDem policy to reapply?

    I have no clue. Do you? Have they even discussed it?
    I am 99% sure it will be to reapply ASAP, following a new referendum. So, no, it isn't ambiguous, in my mind.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited August 2019

    Byronic said:



    But the Lib Dems really will deliver a 2nd referendum, and really will campaign hard for Remain, if they ever get a sniff of power.

    For millions of Brits, that is all that matters, all that will matter, for years to come.

    Yes, but there you immediately run into another LibDem ambiguity. What if we have in fact withdrawn on October 31. Is LibDem policy to reapply?

    I have no clue. Do you? Have they even discussed it?
    I suspect post Brexit the LDs would initially apply to rejoin the single market and use that as a springboard to rejoin the EU if public opinion moved in that direction
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    edited August 2019

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    Well, that doesn't come as a surprise after your posts yesterday. Clearly this is something that has been causing you a lot of angst for some time.

    From your posts, if it's worth anything I think you're making the right decision. It's obvious you were really not happy or settled with the way things were going and it was only causing you hurt trying to stay in. I hope you find it possible to move on.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, your Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!
    Apparently he wants to do what his grandfather did - call himself George VII to avoid any embarrassing parallels.
    His grandfather was Bert, wasn't he?
    Albert Frederick Arthur George. Bertie to friends and family, took the regnal name George.

    Charles is Charles Phillip Arthur George.
    He could do worse than Charles II though. He had a reasonably good record in reconciling a deeply divided Kingdom.
    And shagging everything with a vagina.

    And, of course, the last king to prorogue Parliament and rule directly, although people often forget that.

    And leaving a major succession crisis that erupted into civil war in two years and revolution followed by war in Ireland in three.

    Apart from that, he was a dazzling success.

    (Fun fact - if he becomes King, William will be the first descendant of Charles II to be King.)
    TBF the major succession crisis wasn’t his fault.
    His persistent refusal to divorce his queen and marry somebody who could have children, or use the Henry VIII precedent to nominate Monmouth as his heir could be seen as an unfortunate mistake.

    He must have known James would be an impossible choice as King, for all James' qualities.
    Thanks to James trying to reimpose Catholicism and being deposed we then had the Jacobite rebellions in favour of his son and grandson which developed after the arrival of the Hanoverians and the Act of Union which began the Scottish nationalist movement.

    Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP owe a lot to James IInd
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    I'm not sure whether to applaud you or feel sorry for you.

    All I know it must have been a difficult decision.
    You should applaud his honour and bravery in making that difficult decision.

    If every other Labour member had Rochdale's principles, they would do the same: then Corbyn and his horrible cabal would be toppled and replaced - and this country would once again have a decent, fighting Opposition, which we so desperately need.

    Well done, Mr Pioneers.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited August 2019
    This thread is like the one David Herdson wrote a few years back, regarding that Ed Milliband would lose his seat in Doncaster.
  • I have resigned from the Labour Party

    It’s a shame that politics is in such a state that dedicated people who have pride in their party’s traditions feel the need to walk.

  • I see the captain has brought himself on to bowl.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    Byronic said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    I'm not sure whether to applaud you or feel sorry for you.

    All I know it must have been a difficult decision.
    You should applaud his honour and bravery in making that difficult decision.

    If every other Labour member had Rochdale's principles, they would do the same: then Corbyn and his horrible cabal would be toppled and replaced - and this country would once again have a decent, fighting Opposition, which we so desperately need.

    Well done, Mr Pioneers.
    If every Labour member opposed to Corbyn left, surely that would make it less likely he'd be toppled?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870

    Byronic said:



    But the Lib Dems really will deliver a 2nd referendum, and really will campaign hard for Remain, if they ever get a sniff of power.

    For millions of Brits, that is all that matters, all that will matter, for years to come.

    Yes, but there you immediately run into another LibDem ambiguity. What if we have in fact withdrawn on October 31. Is LibDem policy to reapply?

    I have no clue. Do you? Have they even discussed it?
    Seriously, Nick, there are perhaps people in this world who can accuse the Lib Dems of an ambiguous Brexit policy.

    But not Corbyn-supporting Labour activists. Take the mote out of thine own eye, etc. etc.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    Byronic said:



    But the Lib Dems really will deliver a 2nd referendum, and really will campaign hard for Remain, if they ever get a sniff of power.

    For millions of Brits, that is all that matters, all that will matter, for years to come.

    Yes, but there you immediately run into another LibDem ambiguity. What if we have in fact withdrawn on October 31. Is LibDem policy to reapply?

    I have no clue. Do you? Have they even discussed it?
    Seriously, Nick, there are perhaps people in this world who can accuse the Lib Dems of an ambiguous Brexit policy.

    But not Corbyn-supporting Labour activists. Take the mote out of thine own eye, etc. etc.
    Mote?! More like the entire Amazon Rainforest.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088

    Byronic said:



    But the Lib Dems really will deliver a 2nd referendum, and really will campaign hard for Remain, if they ever get a sniff of power.

    For millions of Brits, that is all that matters, all that will matter, for years to come.

    Yes, but there you immediately run into another LibDem ambiguity. What if we have in fact withdrawn on October 31. Is LibDem policy to reapply?

    I have no clue. Do you? Have they even discussed it?
    That’s picking at hairs, though, isn’t it? You know this already.

    They are a pro-EU party and will be looking for an opportunity to rejoin. How and when that opportunity might arise will depend heavily upon the nature and the consequences of our departure, so it is unrealistic to expect a detailed plan right now.

    How about you focus on Labour’s problem of apparently being opposed to a Tory managed Brexit but in favour of a Labour managed one?
  • Byronic said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    I'm not sure whether to applaud you or feel sorry for you.

    All I know it must have been a difficult decision.
    You should applaud his honour and bravery in making that difficult decision.

    If every other Labour member had Rochdale's principles, they would do the same: then Corbyn and his horrible cabal would be toppled and replaced - and this country would once again have a decent, fighting Opposition, which we so desperately need.

    Well done, Mr Pioneers.
    I have been deeply unhappy for a few months now. But finding excuses as to why I should keep going, despite that that I do not want a Corbyn government. So a few things tipped me over. An argument about a closed CLP Facebook group which had turned into a hatefest before being locked down. We discussed a proposal to reopen the group, which turned into two camps utterly opposed to each other's recollection of why it was a hatefest.

    And then yet more AS training. Which confirmed that according to his own published AS materials Corbyn is an anti-semite. And I had this blissful epiphany sitting there in the CLP meeting that I didn't want to be there and didn't care about what they were on about.

    I will vote for Paul Williams at the general election as he is a good MP. But am now free to think and have my own opinions and not justify myself to the cult
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Byronic said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    I'm not sure whether to applaud you or feel sorry for you.

    All I know it must have been a difficult decision.
    You should applaud his honour and bravery in making that difficult decision.

    If every other Labour member had Rochdale's principles, they would do the same: then Corbyn and his horrible cabal would be toppled and replaced - and this country would once again have a decent, fighting Opposition, which we so desperately need.

    Well done, Mr Pioneers.
    Hardly difficult.
    If that is the major trauma in your life.
    You are lucky.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,576
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    I'm not sure whether to applaud you or feel sorry for you.

    All I know it must have been a difficult decision.
    You should applaud his honour and bravery in making that difficult decision.

    If every other Labour member had Rochdale's principles, they would do the same: then Corbyn and his horrible cabal would be toppled and replaced - and this country would once again have a decent, fighting Opposition, which we so desperately need.

    Well done, Mr Pioneers.
    If every Labour member opposed to Corbyn left, surely that would make it less likely he'd be toppled?
    They’d be represented by a larger party on the Commons, though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,576
    Next generation of Brits in F1 looking pretty strong.
    Both Norris and Russell are serious prospects for future world championships.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    I'm sorry to hear that, but of course I respect your decision.

    It can't have been an easy decision to make, but I hope you feel unburdened now that you have done it.

    You'll always be Labour inside. Nobody can take away your values.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    I'm not sure whether to applaud you or feel sorry for you.

    All I know it must have been a difficult decision.
    You should applaud his honour and bravery in making that difficult decision.

    If every other Labour member had Rochdale's principles, they would do the same: then Corbyn and his horrible cabal would be toppled and replaced - and this country would once again have a decent, fighting Opposition, which we so desperately need.

    Well done, Mr Pioneers.
    If every Labour member opposed to Corbyn left, surely that would make it less likely he'd be toppled?
    Not if all these hundreds of thousands of departing members got together with all the Labour MPs that loathe or despair of Corbyn (70% of them?), and then threatened to make themselves the new Opposition. New Labour.

    At that point it wouldn't matter if Corbyn was toppled or not, he would no longer be LOTO
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Byronic said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    I'm not sure whether to applaud you or feel sorry for you.

    All I know it must have been a difficult decision.
    You should applaud his honour and bravery in making that difficult decision.

    If every other Labour member had Rochdale's principles, they would do the same: then Corbyn and his horrible cabal would be toppled and replaced - and this country would once again have a decent, fighting Opposition, which we so desperately need.

    Well done, Mr Pioneers.
    It's not Corbyn, or even Corbyn and his cabal, so much as the readmission of Militant and other assorted trots that Kinnock threw out.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    I'm not sure whether to applaud you or feel sorry for you.

    All I know it must have been a difficult decision.
    You should applaud his honour and bravery in making that difficult decision.

    If every other Labour member had Rochdale's principles, they would do the same: then Corbyn and his horrible cabal would be toppled and replaced - and this country would once again have a decent, fighting Opposition, which we so desperately need.

    Well done, Mr Pioneers.
    I have been deeply unhappy for a few months now. But finding excuses as to why I should keep going, despite that that I do not want a Corbyn government. So a few things tipped me over. An argument about a closed CLP Facebook group which had turned into a hatefest before being locked down. We discussed a proposal to reopen the group, which turned into two camps utterly opposed to each other's recollection of why it was a hatefest.

    And then yet more AS training. Which confirmed that according to his own published AS materials Corbyn is an anti-semite. And I had this blissful epiphany sitting there in the CLP meeting that I didn't want to be there and didn't care about what they were on about.

    I will vote for Paul Williams at the general election as he is a good MP. But am now free to think and have my own opinions and not justify myself to the cult
    Enjoy your freedom!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,343

    Byronic said:



    But the Lib Dems really will deliver a 2nd referendum, and really will campaign hard for Remain, if they ever get a sniff of power.

    For millions of Brits, that is all that matters, all that will matter, for years to come.

    Yes, but there you immediately run into another LibDem ambiguity. What if we have in fact withdrawn on October 31. Is LibDem policy to reapply?

    I have no clue. Do you? Have they even discussed it?
    Seriously, Nick, there are perhaps people in this world who can accuse the Lib Dems of an ambiguous Brexit policy.

    But not Corbyn-supporting Labour activists. Take the mote out of thine own eye, etc. etc.
    I think it's fair enough not to have a fixed public policy on matters which are future contingents, like would we reapply. The poor old general public are confused enough trying to keep up with Labour contortions and Tory divisions What would not be sensible would be not to have a process of internal discussion now for when/if it arises.

    I think it will in fact depend both on terms of withdrawal and how it works out in practice. As these are questions involving a good number of unknowns it' is best left for now.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    DougSeal said:

    Byronic said:

    alex. said:

    So in rapid succession we’ve survived the Blitz and are looking rapidly forward to the Reformation. Where’s it going to end? The Norman Conquest?

    The Reformation is actually a very good analogy for Brexit, in multiple ways.

    I envisage a time, quite soon, when rich, recusant Remainer families will have priest holes behind false walls, where they will hide Jolyon Maugham, or Anna Soubry.
    So when do we get our Marian reaction followed by an Elizabethan compromise?
    Quite soon after Liam Fox's Book of Martyrs.
    Aren't we looking at King Charles III before too long? Must mean something, although I gather he's given up the mistress habit.
    Unless of course, your Jack W when he'll be Charles IV!
    Apparently he wants to do what his grandfather did - call himself George VII to avoid any embarrassing parallels.
    His grandfather was Bert, wasn't he?
    Albert Frederick Arthur George. Bertie to friends and family, took the regnal name George.

    Charles is Charles Phillip Arthur George.
    He could do worse than Charles II though. He had a reasonably good record in reconciling a deeply divided Kingdom.
    And shagging everything with a vagina.

    And, of course, the last king to prorogue Parliament and rule directly, although people often forget that.

    And leaving a major succession crisis that erupted into civil war in two years and revolution followed by war in Ireland in three.

    Apart from that, he was a dazzling success.

    (Fun fact - if he becomes King, William will be the first descendant of Charles II to be King.)
    TBF the major succession crisis wasn’t his fault.
    His persistent refusal to divorce his queen and marry somebody who could have children, or use the Henry VIII precedent to nominate Monmouth as his heir could be seen as an unfortunate mistake.

    He must have known James would be an impossible choice as King, for all James' qualities.
    You’re blaming him for refusing to divorce someone and for not knowing what a disaster his brother would be. I think that’s pushing it a bit far. It was just bad luck. Also the Henry VIII precedent was not a strong one. The more recent nomination of Lady Jane Grey by Edward VI had not ended well for anyone concerned. Nominating Monmouth WOULD have caused a succession crisis.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    edited August 2019

    I have resigned from the Labour Party


    As someone who spent a year outside of the LibDems last year, for the first time since my schooldays, I have sympathy with your position. There’s no need to do anything more in haste; for a long term party member there’s a freedom that comes from suddenly being a customer with choice rather than a fan with obligations, which you will probably enjoy. Voting in any election when you don’t just look for the party logo, but can weigh up the candidate profiles and their manifestos, is liberating. Make the most of it!

    In my case I considered the local Green Party and I considered TIG when it launched, and signed up as one of their early supporters. In the event I decided the Greens weren’t for me (although I would happily back them in an alliance, which may well arrive round my way) and TIG crashed and burned. I am now back within the LibDems and very happy with the outcome of my year of intellectual independence.

    Whether you return to Labour or find a new more fulfilling political home, time will tell. Meanwhile enjoy the chance to do some free thinking.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    edited August 2019
    DougSeal said:

    You’re blaming him for refusing to divorce someone and for not knowing what a disaster his brother would be. I think that’s pushing it a bit far. It was just bad luck. Also the Henry VIII precedent was not a strong one. The more recent nomination of Lady Jane Grey by Edward VI had not ended well for anyone concerned. Nominating Monmouth WOULD have caused a succession crisis.

    Jane was nominated in defiance of the Act, as the next collateral heiress, accepting Henry VIII's assertion that Mary was illegitimate. But nor was Mary, who was nominated, the happiest of precedents. And it is of course fair to point out that Monmouth obviously had little support.

    But given this had been making waves long before Charles II died - it was as I recall the reason why he prorogued Parliament - and given James' shortcomings, I still say his stubbornness in not trying to find a resolution of some sort when there were options available was extremely foolish.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Bollocks.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    So assuming Anderson will be unable to bat for long, England will have a lead of jut over 80.

    Useful but not match defining.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    ydoethur said:

    So assuming Anderson will be unable to bat for long, England will have a lead of jut over 80.

    Useful but not match defining.

    We'd have seized that eagerly when we were around 300/8.

    And they could just nudge the lead near to 90. Mebbes
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    So assuming Anderson will be unable to bat for long, England will have a lead of jut over 80.

    Useful but not match defining.

    We'd have seized that eagerly when we were around 300/8.

    And they could just nudge the lead near to 90. Mebbes
    But it's not terribly impressive having been 150-1.
  • It's a familiar refrain. My values haven't changed, but the party has. The final line of Clause 4 speaks of "a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect". That is a sad joke when you look at what the party has now become
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    So assuming Anderson will be unable to bat for long, England will have a lead of jut over 80.

    Useful but not match defining.

    We'd have seized that eagerly when we were around 300/8.

    And they could just nudge the lead near to 90. Mebbes
    But it's not terribly impressive having been 150-1.
    370 is a very decent first innings Test score at Edgbaston.

    http://www.cricmetric.com/venue.py?venue=Birmingham
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    When will this bloody cricket ever end? It seems to be on every day.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401
    Byronic said:

    Bollocks.

    To Brexit?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401
    Not raining here yet.

    Which means I don't have an excuse for not mowing the lawn.

    Laters...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088

    Byronic said:

    Bollocks.

    To Brexit?
    At last Byronic has managed to do a passable impression of the remainer he told us he was?! ;)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840
    IanB2 said:

    When will this bloody cricket ever end? It seems to be on every day.

    It's only just begun...
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    C'mon England. 8 more runs.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    IanB2 said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party


    As someone who spent a year outside of the LibDems last year, for the first time since my schooldays, I have sympathy with your position. There’s no need to do anything more in haste; for a long term party member there’s a freedom that comes from suddenly being a customer with choice rather than a fan with obligations, which you will probably enjoy. Voting in any election when you don’t just look for the party logo, but can weigh up the candidate profiles and their manifestos, is liberating. Make the most of it!

    In my case I considered the local Green Party and I considered TIG when it launched, and signed up as one of their early supporters. In the event I decided the Greens weren’t for me (although I would happily back them in an alliance, which may well arrive round my way) and TIG crashed and burned. I am now back within the LibDems and very happy with the outcome of my year of intellectual independence.

    Whether you return to Labour or find a new more fulfilling political home, time will tell. Meanwhile enjoy the chance to do some free thinking.
    +1
    Sound advice! You can still be interested in politics but not actually be a member. Not having to turn a blind eye to stupid ideas, policies or party problems gives an independent minded person moral superiority! :smiley:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    Yorkcity said:

    Byronic said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    I'm not sure whether to applaud you or feel sorry for you.

    All I know it must have been a difficult decision.
    You should applaud his honour and bravery in making that difficult decision.

    If every other Labour member had Rochdale's principles, they would do the same: then Corbyn and his horrible cabal would be toppled and replaced - and this country would once again have a decent, fighting Opposition, which we so desperately need.

    Well done, Mr Pioneers.
    Hardly difficult.
    If that is the major trauma in your life.
    You are lucky.
    I am guessing you’re someone who has never played an active role in frontline politics.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    Why is Woakes not taking a single off the fifth ball of the over?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    IanB2 said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party


    As someone who spent a year outside of the LibDems last year, for the first time since my schooldays, I have sympathy with your position. There’s no need to do anything more in haste; for a long term party member there’s a freedom that comes from suddenly being a customer with choice rather than a fan with obligations, which you will probably enjoy. Voting in any election when you don’t just look for the party logo, but can weigh up the candidate profiles and their manifestos, is liberating. Make the most of it!

    In my case I considered the local Green Party and I considered TIG when it launched, and signed up as one of their early supporters. In the event I decided the Greens weren’t for me (although I would happily back them in an alliance, which may well arrive round my way) and TIG crashed and burned. I am now back within the LibDems and very happy with the outcome of my year of intellectual independence.

    Whether you return to Labour or find a new more fulfilling political home, time will tell. Meanwhile enjoy the chance to do some free thinking.
    +1
    Sound advice! You can still be interested in politics but not actually be a member. Not having to turn a blind eye to stupid ideas, policies or party problems gives an independent minded person moral superiority! :smiley:
    It's very nice to be able to say Johnson, Corbyn and Farage are all thick, useless and incompetent.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: ha, misjudged the relative pace of all three top teams. Still, I'd much rather lose a bet to misjudgement than some freak accident.

    Forgot to add this, but as has become usual the pre-race tosh will be up tomorrow morning.
  • Jimmy certianly won't be doing any bowling.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party


    As someone who spent a year outside of the LibDems last year, for the first time since my schooldays, I have sympathy with your position. There’s no need to do anything more in haste; for a long term party member there’s a freedom that comes from suddenly being a customer with choice rather than a fan with obligations, which you will probably enjoy. Voting in any election when you don’t just look for the party logo, but can weigh up the candidate profiles and their manifestos, is liberating. Make the most of it!

    In my case I considered the local Green Party and I considered TIG when it launched, and signed up as one of their early supporters. In the event I decided the Greens weren’t for me (although I would happily back them in an alliance, which may well arrive round my way) and TIG crashed and burned. I am now back within the LibDems and very happy with the outcome of my year of intellectual independence.

    Whether you return to Labour or find a new more fulfilling political home, time will tell. Meanwhile enjoy the chance to do some free thinking.
    +1
    Sound advice! You can still be interested in politics but not actually be a member. Not having to turn a blind eye to stupid ideas, policies or party problems gives an independent minded person moral superiority! :smiley:
    It's very nice to be able to say Johnson, Corbyn and Farage are all thick, useless and incompetent.
    Neither Johnson nor Farage are thick. Farage is arguably a political genius, and the most influential politician of our time. Though obviously hated by many.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    I loathe this habit of not taking runs. Anderson going to be facing the next over anyway, so TAKING THE FRICKIN RUNS.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    edited August 2019
    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party


    As someone who spent a year outside of the LibDems last year, for the first time since my schooldays, I have sympathy with your position. There’s no need to do anything more in haste; for a long term party member there’s a freedom that comes from suddenly being a customer with choice rather than a fan with obligations, which you will probably enjoy. Voting in any election when you don’t just look for the party logo, but can weigh up the candidate profiles and their manifestos, is liberating. Make the most of it!

    In my case I considered the local Green Party and I considered TIG when it launched, and signed up as one of their early supporters. In the event I decided the Greens weren’t for me (although I would happily back them in an alliance, which may well arrive round my way) and TIG crashed and burned. I am now back within the LibDems and very happy with the outcome of my year of intellectual independence.

    Whether you return to Labour or find a new more fulfilling political home, time will tell. Meanwhile enjoy the chance to do some free thinking.
    +1
    Sound advice! You can still be interested in politics but not actually be a member. Not having to turn a blind eye to stupid ideas, policies or party problems gives an independent minded person moral superiority! :smiley:
    It's very nice to be able to say Johnson, Corbyn and Farage are all thick, useless and incompetent.
    Neither Johnson nor Farage are thick. Farage is arguably a political genius, and the most influential politician of our time. Though obviously hated by many.
    Depends a bit on what you mean by thick.

    If you mean, able to translate several languages, I'll admit they're brighter than me.

    If you mean, able to grasp simple problems and propose reasonable solutions, then clearly they are very thick.

    Unfortunately politics requires people who can do the latter (and indeed, understand complex problems which they certainly can't).
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,911

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    Good for you. I left soon after Corbyn became leader and I have been arguing about it with a friend who has been a member for 40 years ever since. He claimed you had to stay and fight - had a text from him about a week ago saying he had resigned and joined the Lib Dems!! Sometimes you have to admit the game is over.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Jimmy certianly won't be doing any bowling.

    The odds against an Australian victory have just come in quite dramatically, as Anderson's pain became obvious in the last few minutes. They were around 5/1, now nearer 3/1
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party


    As someone who spent a year outside of the LibDems last year, for the first time since my schooldays, I have sympathy with your position. There’s no need to do anything more in haste; for a long term party member there’s a freedom that comes from suddenly being a customer with choice rather than a fan with obligations, which you will probably enjoy. Voting in any election when you don’t just look for the party logo, but can weigh up the candidate profiles and their manifestos, is liberating. Make the most of it!

    In my case I considered the local Green Party and I considered TIG when it launched, and signed up as one of their early supporters. In the event I decided the Greens weren’t for me (although I would happily back them in an alliance, which may well arrive round my way) and TIG crashed and burned. I am now back within the LibDems and very happy with the outcome of my year of intellectual independence.

    Whether you return to Labour or find a new more fulfilling political home, time will tell. Meanwhile enjoy the chance to do some free thinking.
    +1
    Sound advice! You can still be interested in politics but not actually be a member. Not having to turn a blind eye to stupid ideas, policies or party problems gives an independent minded person moral superiority! :smiley:
    It's very nice to be able to say Johnson, Corbyn and Farage are all thick, useless and incompetent.
    Neither Johnson nor Farage are thick. Farage is arguably a political genius, and the most influential politician of our time. Though obviously hated by many.
    I think Farage is (or was) the right man, in the right place, rather than a political (or actual) genius.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    Byronic said:

    Jimmy certianly won't be doing any bowling.

    The odds against an Australian victory have just come in quite dramatically, as Anderson's pain became obvious in the last few minutes. They were around 5/1, now nearer 3/1
    I think that's pretty generous. Chasing more than 175 in the last innings is going to be tough.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited August 2019
    Byronic said:

    Jimmy certianly won't be doing any bowling.

    The odds against an Australian victory have just come in quite dramatically, as Anderson's pain became obvious in the last few minutes. They were around 5/1, now nearer 3/1
    Cricviz has convicts with only 14% chance.

    I have long had a poor view of their model.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774

    Byronic said:

    Jimmy certianly won't be doing any bowling.

    The odds against an Australian victory have just come in quite dramatically, as Anderson's pain became obvious in the last few minutes. They were around 5/1, now nearer 3/1
    Cricviz has convicts with only 14% chance.
    Cricviz misses the fact that we only have three bowlers.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party


    As someone who spent a year outside of the LibDems last year, for the first time since f my year of intellectual independence.

    Whether you return to Labour or find a new more fulfilling political home, time will tell. Meanwhile enjoy the chance to do some free thinking.
    +1
    Sound advice! You can still be interested in politics but not actually be a member. Not having to turn a blind eye to stupid ideas, policies or party problems gives an independent minded person moral superiority! :smiley:
    It's very nice to be able to say Johnson, Corbyn and Farage are all thick, useless and incompetent.
    Neither Johnson nor Farage are thick. Farage is arguably a political genius, and the most influential politician of our time. Though obviously hated by many.
    Depends a bit on what you mean by thick.

    If you mean, able to translate several languages, I'll admit they're brighter than me.

    If you mean, able to grasp simple problems and propose reasonable solutions, then clearly they are very thick.

    Unfortunately politics requires people who can do the latter (and indeed, understand complex problems which they certainly can't).
    Set aside Johnson for now, Farage has almost single-handedly steered the nation to an epochal referendum, was influential in winning that referendum, and is now bullying the Tories towards a hard or no-deal Brexit.

    No one else has had such influence on our politics in a generation. Of course, many see that influence as malign, but that's not the argument.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    England lead by 90.

    But can they have the Aussies five down before parity?

    I have to say I doubt it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    rcs1000 said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party


    As someone who spent a year outside of the LibDems last year, for the first time since my schooldays, I have sympathy with your position. There’s no need to do anything more in haste; for a long term party member there’s a freedom that comes from suddenly being a customer with choice rather than a fan with obligations, which you will probably enjoy. Voting in any election when you don’t just look for the party logo, but can weigh up the candidate profiles and their manifestos, is liberating. Make the most of it!

    In my case I considered the local Green Party and I considered TIG when it launched, and signed up as one of their early supporters. In the event I decided the Greens weren’t for me (although I would happily back them in an alliance, which may well arrive round my way) and TIG crashed and burned. I am now back within the LibDems and very happy with the outcome of my year of intellectual independence.

    Whether you return to Labour or find a new more fulfilling political home, time will tell. Meanwhile enjoy the chance to do some free thinking.
    +1
    Sound advice! You can still be interested in politics but not actually be a member. Not having to turn a blind eye to stupid ideas, policies or party problems gives an independent minded person moral superiority! :smiley:
    It's very nice to be able to say Johnson, Corbyn and Farage are all thick, useless and incompetent.
    Neither Johnson nor Farage are thick. Farage is arguably a political genius, and the most influential politician of our time. Though obviously hated by many.
    I think Farage is (or was) the right man, in the right place, rather than a political (or actual) genius.

    Agreed. Had the EU expansion of 2004 not happened, then Euroscepticism would have remained a fringe interest.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited August 2019

    It's a familiar refrain. My values haven't changed, but the party has. The final line of Clause 4 speaks of "a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect". That is a sad joke when you look at what the party has now become

    Parties can change for the better and worse, politics is cyclical both generally and within an individual party. Sometimes you have to sit things out either inside or outside depending on your level of revulsion at the direction a party takes. In my experience the first break is always the hardest! I am currently a floating voter but have backed LD as a protest, I encourage you to find a vehicle to do the same at forthcoming elections. It does not obviously mean you have to be a member or participate but the buggers only take notice when you vote for someone else!
  • ydoethur said:

    England lead by 90.

    But can they have the Aussies five down before parity?

    I have to say I doubt it.

    I have no idea how they are going to get Steve Smith out.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    It's a familiar refrain. My values haven't changed, but the party has. The final line of Clause 4 speaks of "a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect". That is a sad joke when you look at what the party has now become

    Must have been difficult decision. So hard to know whether to stay and fight and all that. But at end of the day if the Party has values that you can no longer defend or stomach, it is time to go.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    rcs1000 said:

    Byronic said:

    Jimmy certianly won't be doing any bowling.

    The odds against an Australian victory have just come in quite dramatically, as Anderson's pain became obvious in the last few minutes. They were around 5/1, now nearer 3/1
    I think that's pretty generous. Chasing more than 175 in the last innings is going to be tough.
    It looks generous to me too. You can get 15/4 right now.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    rcs1000 said:

    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party


    As some

    Whether you return to Labour or find a new more fulfilling political home, time will tell. Meanwhile enjoy the chance to do some free thinking.
    +1
    Sound advice! You can still be interested in politics but not actually be a member. Not having to turn a blind eye to stupid ideas, policies or party problems gives an independent minded person moral superiority! :smiley:
    It's very nice to be able to say Johnson, Corbyn and Farage are all thick, useless and incompetent.
    Neither Johnson nor Farage are thick. Farage is arguably a political genius, and the most influential politician of our time. Though obviously hated by many.
    I think Farage is (or was) the right man, in the right place, rather than a political (or actual) genius.

    No. Farage is much more than that.

    Look at the way he quit UKIP, at just the right time, then set up the Brexit Party from scratch, and guided them to victory in the European elex, about six weeks later? And now the BXP are scarily salient in the GE polls (if you're a Tory).

    This takes great political intelligence, on several levels. Farage is the smartest operator out there (now that Salmond is out).

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,073
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Having said that, the glazers are a nightmare so the premier league are no better

    At least the team's wages have been paid!
    As long as they are creaming off the top they will be but that club is in so much debt it is untrue

    That was at the root of Bolton's problems. Massive debt, easily serviceable whilst in the PL...
    Man Utd dropped out in the 70’s. Not inconceivable it could happen again. Then something may get done
    Dropping out is fine, as long as you get back before the parachute money ends, as Newcastle and West Ham have proved more than once. It is if you don't, and, even worse, fall into the third a la Leeds. Now Bolton. Nowt will get done.
    I quite enjoyed Leicester's season in League One, just a few years ago. We have great owners.

    Far worse was administration in 2002. We nearly ceased to be.

    Good times are back, and a good transfer season for us. A strong performance in the pre season friendly last night against Atalanta.
  • OllyT said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    Good for you. I left soon after Corbyn became leader and I have been arguing about it with a friend who has been a member for 40 years ever since. He claimed you had to stay and fight - had a text from him about a week ago saying he had resigned and joined the Lib Dems!! Sometimes you have to admit the game is over.
    I was fighting. Celebrated getting a local loon booted. But realised that every single day I was fighting with myself to look past my hatred of the party and what it was forcing me to be. Until last night, when I suddenly realised my "let's fight and win" hand was a pair of 4s.

    So I folded. Placed my cards on the table and stepped away. I don't regret at least trying to fight. But I also don't regret quitting. It's liberating.
  • ydoethur said:

    England lead by 90.

    But can they have the Aussies five down before parity?

    I have to say I doubt it.

    Missed the last wicket as at the bar (not a legal term)
    What happened?

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    edited August 2019
    Mr. Borough, the Nader Party does indeed look up and running.

    Edited extra bit: anyone got any view on Age of Wonders: Planetfall?

    Being a console peasant I haven't played any of the other titles on PC, but it looks pretty good.

    The slavers human resource specialists The Syndicate look interesting.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    49?
    Has Farage chosen a seat yet, or is he chicken?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    ydoethur said:

    England lead by 90.

    But can they have the Aussies five down before parity?

    I have to say I doubt it.

    Missed the last wicket as at the bar (not a legal term)
    What happened?

    Anderson scooped up the spinner, for an easy catch
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Byronic said:

    Jimmy certianly won't be doing any bowling.

    The odds against an Australian victory have just come in quite dramatically, as Anderson's pain became obvious in the last few minutes. They were around 5/1, now nearer 3/1
    Cricviz has convicts with only 14% chance.

    I have long had a poor view of their model.
    If I have time one of the things I want to do is gather the statistics for a reliability diagram for the cricviz predictions.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840

    ydoethur said:

    England lead by 90.

    But can they have the Aussies five down before parity?

    I have to say I doubt it.

    Missed the last wicket as at the bar (not a legal term)
    What happened?

    Anderson had a swipe. It was clear he couldn't run anymore.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    When is he going to announce the first party member?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    49?
    Has Farage chosen a seat yet, or is he chicken?
    He is currently leader of the largest single party in the European Parliament, unless it was Clacton (UKIP's only seat in 2015) I doubt he would bother
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Byronic said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party

    I'm not sure whether to applaud you or feel sorry for you.

    All I know it must have been a difficult decision.
    You should applaud his honour and bravery in making that difficult decision.

    If every other Labour member had Rochdale's principles, they would do the same: then Corbyn and his horrible cabal would be toppled and replaced - and this country would once again have a decent, fighting Opposition, which we so desperately need.

    Well done, Mr Pioneers.
    I have been deeply unhappy for a few months now. But finding excuses as to why I should keep going, despite that that I do not want a Corbyn government. So a few things tipped me over. An argument about a closed CLP Facebook group which had turned into a hatefest before being locked down. We discussed a proposal to reopen the group, which turned into two camps utterly opposed to each other's recollection of why it was a hatefest.

    And then yet more AS training. Which confirmed that according to his own published AS materials Corbyn is an anti-semite. And I had this blissful epiphany sitting there in the CLP meeting that I didn't want to be there and didn't care about what they were on about.

    I will vote for Paul Williams at the general election as he is a good MP. But am now free to think and have my own opinions and not justify myself to the cult
    I can empathise with your decision, having decided at the beginning of 1997 not to renew my membership because of Blair's acquiescence with Thatcherism - ironically at the very moment the voters wanted real change rather than something cosmetic.The mood of the country had shifted by that time , and Labour would have won comfortably enough on a repeat of its 1992 manifesto. I did not vote Labour again at a Parliamentary election until 2015 - and the Gender Vetting selection process will prevent me doing so next time despite living in a key marginal.
    The act of leaving was emotionally very traumatic, and I came to seriously regret the 27 years of activism which had preceded it. I have never felt an inclination to rejoin - beyond registering as a 'supporter' for the 2015 Leadership election when I voted for Yvette Cooper.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited August 2019
    dixiedean said:

    IanB2 said:

    When will this bloody cricket ever end? It seems to be on every day.

    It's only just begun...
    This is the first Test in the World Test Championship. The final starts on the 10th June 2021. I am so excited!
  • ydoethur said:

    England lead by 90.

    But can they have the Aussies five down before parity?

    I have to say I doubt it.

    I have no idea how they are going to get Steve Smith out.
    Get the other 10.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840

    When is he going to announce the first party member?
    In the immortal words of Chesney Hawkes "I am the one and only."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited August 2019
    Byronic said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    I have resigned from the Labour Party


    As someone who spent a year outside of the LibDems last year, for the first time since my schooldays, I have sympathy with your position. There’s no need to do anything more in haste; for a long term party member there’s a freedom that comes from suddenly being a customer with choice rather than a fan with obligations, which you will probably enjoy. Voting in any election when you don’t just look for the party logo, but can weigh up the candidate profiles and their manifestos, is liberating. Make the most of it!

    In my case I considered the local Green Party and I considered TIG when it launched, and signed up as one of their early supporters. In the event I decided the Greens weren’t for me (although I would happily back them in an alliance, which may well arrive round my way) and TIG crashed and burned. I am now back within the LibDems and very happy with the outcome of my year of intellectual independence.

    Whether you return to Labour or find a new more fulfilling political home, time will tell. Meanwhile enjoy the chance to do some free thinking.
    +1
    Sound advice! You can still be interested in politics but not actually be a member. Not having to turn a blind eye to stupid ideas, policies or party problems gives an independent minded person moral superiority! :smiley:
    It's very nice to be able to say Johnson, Corbyn and Farage are all thick, useless and incompetent.
    Neither Johnson nor Farage are thick. Farage is arguably a political genius, and the most influential politician of our time. Though obviously hated by many.
    Some truth in that. The 3 most influential post war UK politicians have been Attlee, Thatcher and Farage on some measures (Churchill the most influential war leader of course but less so in peacetime)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,745

    It's a familiar refrain. My values haven't changed, but the party has. The final line of Clause 4 speaks of "a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect". That is a sad joke when you look at what the party has now become

    Having been a member of my party (in an earlier form) for nearly 40 years, I realise how deeply painful and difficult it must have been for you to sever your ties but you are entirely correct.

    For all the snide comments directed from some on here, the Labour Party has made a great contribution to this country for which it deserves great credit. I'm too young to have been aware of the Wilson Government from 1964 to 1970 but that seems to me to have been a modern forward thinking administration and socially liberal too.

    As a Liberal, I welcomed a few Labour defectors to the SDP when the Alliance came along. They were, without exception, caring individuals with whom it was an honour to work and pound the streets. I produced my first leaflets with the help of an ex-Labour member who knew his way round a lithograph having worked in the print industry.

    I earnestly hope the Labour Party comes back to you so you can go back to it and I think it will happen.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263


    Yes, but there you immediately run into another LibDem ambiguity. What if we have in fact withdrawn on October 31. Is LibDem policy to reapply?

    I have no clue. Do you? Have they even discussed it?

    Seriously, Nick, there are perhaps people in this world who can accuse the Lib Dems of an ambiguous Brexit policy.

    But not Corbyn-supporting Labour activists. Take the mote out of thine own eye, etc. etc.
    No, the policy's clear, just not one that most people like in our polarised society - oppose No Deal Brexit, oppose the May WA, if elected try to negotiate a better one, then ask the people if they prefer that or would rather just Remain. I think it makes sense.

    If we've already left, then we have the same problem as you do, though - do we try to negotiate readmission and then offer a referendum, or move on?

    Rochdale: sorry to lose you (I put the argument against on the last thread, but thought I shouldn't pursue it). I think you're making a mistake, but clearly when membership was making you so unhappy it was the right thing for you to do now. I hope you'll rejoin in a while.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Really don't understand these cricket odds.

    England are favourites to win, but not by much, with Anderson obviously crocked.

    Yet Australia are 4/1 against?

    https://www.oddschecker.com/cricket
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2019
    Byronic said:

    Really don't understand these cricket odds.

    England are favourites to win, but not by much, with Anderson obviously crocked.

    Yet Australia are 4/1 against?

    https://www.oddschecker.com/cricket

    When England were bowled out for 85 before lunch at Lords by Ireland, England were still strong favourites to win the match according to the betting odds. I thought that was very strange at the time, although it proved to be correct in the end.
This discussion has been closed.