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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » All could change in the WH2020 nomination race on the evening

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited August 6 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » All could change in the WH2020 nomination race on the evening of February 3rd in the midwest state of Iowa

Current odds on the Democratic nominee: Biden 25%, Warren 22%, Harris 19%, Sanders 11%, Buttigieg 6%, Yang 4% pic.twitter.com/rVaaaZz3pN

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 320
    First, but does any one care any more???
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 320
    With everything being Brexit...
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 320
    The PB mono-topic
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 320
    And with that... goodnight! :D
  • This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*

  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 152

    Gabs2 said:

    I at least - avowed Corbyn hater - am content to support him as PM of a temporary GONU whose only policy is call an election.

    The question is really whether certain Tory backbenchers would.

    No Deal is just too devastating to visit upon the country.

    So us just Jews should just be abandoned in the process. Good to know how much our fellow citizens care about us and our dignity as human beings.
    I don’t think making Corbyn PM for five minutes to stop a devastating No Deal Brexit is “abandoning Jews”.
    Yes it is. You are putting an anti-Semite in the highest political office in the land, giving him all the elevating authority that goes with that, and handing him control of when he steps down and what terms the election is made on. You would be emboldening anti-Semites everywhere. If you had any solidarity with British Jews or concern about the increased prejudice and abuse we have been facing, you would not do this. Seriously, go and speak to any Jewish group about this.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 25,861
    Biden, make Michelle Obama your VP. You'll win by 12 points.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 59,526
    Latest Iowa poll has Biden 24%, Sanders 19%, Warren 17%, Harris 16%

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByVu4fDHYJgVSHlRQWtlanA5MFFNdldVQnR6T2VPWlhFRmdr/view
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 8,954
    OK, I've not been giving this 100% of my attention, but this is the first time I've seen the name Andrew Yang.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 30,697

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

  • This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 699

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    That would have been @Philip_Thompson of this parish
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 30,697

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 2,954
    To be fair British history is rather airbrushed in schools - at least in my time in the educational system. The Empire is not really taught at all.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 24,388
    edited August 6

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*

    Arguably Britain was not separate to Ireland (they were both part of the United Kingdom) so it was more like self-harm than one entity oppressing another.

    If you go back to the Treaty of Windsor it was the Duke of Normandy and the Earl of Pembroke being beastly to the Irish (and screwing the Flemish in passing)

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    Edit: of course I know that’s not what Lilco meant. Slow hand clap.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 18,826
    Charles said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*

    Arguably Britain was not separate to Ireland (they were both part of the United Kingdom) so it was more like self-harm than one entity oppressing another.

    If you go back to the Treaty of Windsor it was the Duke of Normandy and the Earl of Pembroke being beastly to the Irish (and screwing the Flemish in passing)

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    Edit: of course I know that’s not what Lilco meant. Slow hand clap.
    I am sorry Charles but much as I agree with you very often, in this case I think you are dancing on the head of a pin.

    And in defence of Lilico!!??? Please man, show some self respect!
  • This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 5,883
    Gosh. Dominic Raab is unimpressive. He can't even read a prepared statement, or even smile, like a human being.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 1,989
    One advantage of YTFC being relegated to the national league I can now listen to commentary on Somerset sound from Spain! Mind you some may not see it as an advantage but it is marginally more interesting than reading the output of our most vocal Brexiteers.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 24,388

    Charles said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*

    Arguably Britain was not separate to Ireland (they were both part of the United Kingdom) so it was more like self-harm than one entity oppressing another.

    If you go back to the Treaty of Windsor it was the Duke of Normandy and the Earl of Pembroke being beastly to the Irish (and screwing the Flemish in passing)

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    Edit: of course I know that’s not what Lilco meant. Slow hand clap.
    I am sorry Charles but much as I agree with you very often, in this case I think you are dancing on the head of a pin.

    And in defence of Lilico!!??? Please man, show some self respect!
    You didn’t see my edit then!

    I’m dancing on a pinhead because I’m an angel and it amuses me to do so. For no other reason and certain not in defence of Lilco 😆
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 18,826
    On topic I think that, sadly, if the Democratic candidate is Biden then Trump is certain of a second term.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 4,522
    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    I at least - avowed Corbyn hater - am content to support him as PM of a temporary GONU whose only policy is call an election.

    The question is really whether certain Tory backbenchers would.

    No Deal is just too devastating to visit upon the country.

    So us just Jews should just be abandoned in the process. Good to know how much our fellow citizens care about us and our dignity as human beings.
    I don’t think making Corbyn PM for five minutes to stop a devastating No Deal Brexit is “abandoning Jews”.
    Yes it is. You are putting an anti-Semite in the highest political office in the land, giving him all the elevating authority that goes with that, and handing him control of when he steps down and what terms the election is made on. You would be emboldening anti-Semites everywhere. If you had any solidarity with British Jews or concern about the increased prejudice and abuse we have been facing, you would not do this. Seriously, go and speak to any Jewish group about this.
    I am reaching for a mechanism to avoid a destructive calamity that will cause real economic hardship and likely in my view dissolve the Union.

    Reserve your ire for the Labour MPs who have continued to enable Corbyn, whom I agree the way is an anti-Semitic disaster zone.

    However, I have to choose between several evils. My favourite option: sending Corbyn and the Brexiters into exile, is not available.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 20,514

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    I at least - avowed Corbyn hater - am content to support him as PM of a temporary GONU whose only policy is call an election.

    The question is really whether certain Tory backbenchers would.

    No Deal is just too devastating to visit upon the country.

    So us just Jews should just be abandoned in the process. Good to know how much our fellow citizens care about us and our dignity as human beings.
    I don’t think making Corbyn PM for five minutes to stop a devastating No Deal Brexit is “abandoning Jews”.
    Yes it is. You are putting an anti-Semite in the highest political office in the land, giving him all the elevating authority that goes with that, and handing him control of when he steps down and what terms the election is made on. You would be emboldening anti-Semites everywhere. If you had any solidarity with British Jews or concern about the increased prejudice and abuse we have been facing, you would not do this. Seriously, go and speak to any Jewish group about this.
    I am reaching for a mechanism to avoid a destructive calamity that will cause real economic hardship and likely in my view dissolve the Union.

    Reserve your ire for the Labour MPs who have continued to enable Corbyn, whom I agree the way is an anti-Semitic disaster zone.

    However, I have to choose between several evils. My favourite option: sending Corbyn and the Brexiters into exile, is not available.
    @Morris_Dancer

    Is the space cannon ready?
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 466

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 11,432
    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 11,259


    First signs of sanity entering the race. There's at least 5 candidates who should drop out and run for the Senate in what should be a gangbuster year for the Dems.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 2,954
    Is this the weakest the UK has ever been on the international stage? Genuine question. We are so divided and distracted as a nation in a way any hostile foreign power could only dream.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 31,034
    Yorkcity said:

    The Tory party voted for the Iraq War. Who’s blamed for that?

    So did Labour….
    LibDems opposed it
    139 Labour Mps opposed it.
    Labour had over 400 MPs back then...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 20,514

    Is this the weakest the UK has ever been on the international stage? Genuine question. We are so divided and distracted as a nation in a way any hostile foreign power could only dream.

    I would have thought since the Peace of Paris in 1783. And that wasn't technically the UK.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 20,945

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    And yet they still want special treatment because they use our country as a rat run for lorries as they haven’t invested in a sea transport system.

    Ireland is no different from France and Denmark - why do they want patronised with special treatment ?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 4,522

    Is this the weakest the UK has ever been on the international stage? Genuine question. We are so divided and distracted as a nation in a way any hostile foreign power could only dream.

    Putin didn’t just dream it, he made it happen!
    With a little help his friends.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 18,826
    ydoethur said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    I at least - avowed Corbyn hater - am content to support him as PM of a temporary GONU whose only policy is call an election.

    The question is really whether certain Tory backbenchers would.

    No Deal is just too devastating to visit upon the country.

    So us just Jews should just be abandoned in the process. Good to know how much our fellow citizens care about us and our dignity as human beings.
    I don’t think making Corbyn PM for five minutes to stop a devastating No Deal Brexit is “abandoning Jews”.
    Yes it is. You are putting an anti-Semite in the highest political office in the land, giving him all the elevating authority that goes with that, and handing him control of when he steps down and what terms the election is made on. You would be emboldening anti-Semites everywhere. If you had any solidarity with British Jews or concern about the increased prejudice and abuse we have been facing, you would not do this. Seriously, go and speak to any Jewish group about this.
    I am reaching for a mechanism to avoid a destructive calamity that will cause real economic hardship and likely in my view dissolve the Union.

    Reserve your ire for the Labour MPs who have continued to enable Corbyn, whom I agree the way is an anti-Semitic disaster zone.

    However, I have to choose between several evils. My favourite option: sending Corbyn and the Brexiters into exile, is not available.
    @Morris_Dancer

    Is the space cannon ready?
    Yes but I think MD is reserving it for Remain voters.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 20,514

    ydoethur said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    I at least - avowed Corbyn hater - am content to support him as PM of a temporary GONU whose only policy is call an election.

    The question is really whether certain Tory backbenchers would.

    No Deal is just too devastating to visit upon the country.

    So us just Jews should just be abandoned in the process. Good to know how much our fellow citizens care about us and our dignity as human beings.
    I don’t think making Corbyn PM for five minutes to stop a devastating No Deal Brexit is “abandoning Jews”.
    Yes it is. You are putting an anti-Semite in the highest political office in the land, giving him all the elevating authority that goes with that, and handing him control of when he steps down and what terms the election is made on. You would be emboldening anti-Semites everywhere. If you had any solidarity with British Jews or concern about the increased prejudice and abuse we have been facing, you would not do this. Seriously, go and speak to any Jewish group about this.
    I am reaching for a mechanism to avoid a destructive calamity that will cause real economic hardship and likely in my view dissolve the Union.

    Reserve your ire for the Labour MPs who have continued to enable Corbyn, whom I agree the way is an anti-Semitic disaster zone.

    However, I have to choose between several evils. My favourite option: sending Corbyn and the Brexiters into exile, is not available.
    @Morris_Dancer

    Is the space cannon ready?
    Yes but I think MD is reserving it for Remain voters.
    So it's fine to put the ERG in? :wink:
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 4,522

    Is this the weakest the UK has ever been on the international stage? Genuine question. We are so divided and distracted as a nation in a way any hostile foreign power could only dream.


    Before the referendum I was, if anything, a Eurosceptic. Looking into the various issues in more detail I decided Remain was infinitely in the UKs interest.

    Brexit has made us poorer.
    Brexit has made us weaker internationally.
    Brexit has increased independence sentiment in NI, Scotland *and* Wales.
    Brexit has consumed the entire political agenda.

    All of these were predictable outcomes, but we kept being told it was Project Fear.
    I wonder how Charles et al have the nerve to keep posting on here, having voted for the most self-destructive proposition in living memory.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 24,388

    Is this the weakest the UK has ever been on the international stage? Genuine question. We are so divided and distracted as a nation in a way any hostile foreign power could only dream.


    Before the referendum I was, if anything, a Eurosceptic. Looking into the various issues in more detail I decided Remain was infinitely in the UKs interest.

    Brexit has made us poorer.
    Brexit has made us weaker internationally.
    Brexit has increased independence sentiment in NI, Scotland *and* Wales.
    Brexit has consumed the entire political agenda.

    All of these were predictable outcomes, but we kept being told it was Project Fear.
    I wonder how Charles et al have the nerve to keep posting on here, having voted for the most self-destructive proposition in living memory.
    People who disagree with you should be silenced. Righty-ho.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 1,989
    edited August 6

    Is this the weakest the UK has ever been on the international stage? Genuine question. We are so divided and distracted as a nation in a way any hostile foreign power could only dream.


    Before the referendum I was, if anything, a Eurosceptic. Looking into the various issues in more detail I decided Remain was infinitely in the UKs interest.

    Brexit has made us poorer.
    Brexit has made us weaker internationally.
    Brexit has increased independence sentiment in NI, Scotland *and* Wales.
    Brexit has consumed the entire political agenda.

    All of these were predictable outcomes, but we kept being told it was Project Fear.
    I wonder how Charles et al have the nerve to keep posting on here, having voted for the most self-destructive proposition in living memory.
    I know but you may as well listen to YTFC v Eastleigh (apparently the spitfires) than try and rationalize with the usual suspects and we are winning one nil
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 699
    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    From 1801 it did. Prior to that it had its own Parliament - albeit a puppet one subject to Westminster oversight. The vast majority of the population were barred from being or voting for candidates to either body of course.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 4,522
    edited August 6
    Charles said:

    Is this the weakest the UK has ever been on the international stage? Genuine question. We are so divided and distracted as a nation in a way any hostile foreign power could only dream.


    Before the referendum I was, if anything, a Eurosceptic. Looking into the various issues in more detail I decided Remain was infinitely in the UKs interest.

    Brexit has made us poorer.
    Brexit has made us weaker internationally.
    Brexit has increased independence sentiment in NI, Scotland *and* Wales.
    Brexit has consumed the entire political agenda.

    All of these were predictable outcomes, but we kept being told it was Project Fear.
    I wonder how Charles et al have the nerve to keep posting on here, having voted for the most self-destructive proposition in living memory.
    People who disagree with you should be silenced. Righty-ho.
    Disagreement is one thing, however your ongoing disavowal of the above amounts to perpetuating a hoax, not rational debate.

    At least Boris’s excuse is that he is in the public eye.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 3,322
    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    From 1801 it did. Prior to that it had its own Parliament - albeit a puppet one subject to Westminster oversight. The vast majority of the population were barred from being or voting for candidates to either body of course.
    As elsewhere in the UK at the time.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 20,514
    edited August 6
    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    From 1801 it did. Prior to that it had its own Parliament - albeit a puppet one subject to Westminster oversight. The vast majority of the population were barred from being or voting for candidates to either body of course.
    Don't forget that that varied. There were extensions of the franchise in 1832, 1867 and 1885. After 1885 (if memory serves) around 70% of men could vote. By 1918 around five-sixths of adults could vote. Although the only election held in Ireland under that franchise was so riddled with fraud as to render the results meaningless.

    So be careful about generalisations across a hundred year period.

    Edit - also, it wasn't quite a 'puppet' Parliament in the sense that you mean. It could and sometimes did act independently (e.g. In 1789 it declared the Prince of Wales regent of Ireland while Pitt stalled matters at Westminster). It was however subject to Crown oversight which was predominantly exercised through the Westminster government - and as a Protestant parliament in a predominantly Catholic nation, was also dependent on British support for sheer survival.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,584
    Charles said:

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    CoughcoughGloriousRevolutionCoughCough

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 20,514
    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    CoughcoughGloriousRevolutionCoughCough

    Potato famine?
  • DougSeal said:
    Alaric Bamping sounds like a porn star name or a euphemism for something rude.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 20,514
    edited August 6

    DougSeal said:
    Alaric Bamping sounds like a porn star name or a euphemism for something rude.
    It's like the unfortunately titled Just So story: 'How the Camel got his Hump.'
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,584
    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    From 1801 it did. Prior to that it had its own Parliament - albeit a puppet one subject to Westminster oversight. The vast majority of the population were barred from being or voting for candidates to either body of course.
    If you ever have time, go thru the Acts of the pre-Union Irish Parliament and cross reference them to the Acts of the pre-Union British Parliament. They don't line up. Similar legislation was passed in both bodies (as well as separate legislation intended for just one state), but often the names and dates were slightly different.

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 702
    edited August 6

    When it comes to policing in the US, racism is a feature not a bug.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 699
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    CoughcoughGloriousRevolutionCoughCough

    Potato famine?
    Black and Tans?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 22,743
    DougSeal said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    That would have been @Philip_Thompson of this parish
    Yep, though I said under UK rule [ie not Cromwell's time]. Ireland under UK rule got MPs, the UK under EU Backstop rule won't get MEPs. QED.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 699
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    From 1801 it did. Prior to that it had its own Parliament - albeit a puppet one subject to Westminster oversight. The vast majority of the population were barred from being or voting for candidates to either body of course.
    Don't forget that that varied. There were extensions of the franchise in 1832, 1867 and 1885. After 1885 (if memory serves) around 70% of men could vote. By 1918 around five-sixths of adults could vote. Although the only election held in Ireland under that franchise was so riddled with fraud as to render the results meaningless.

    So be careful about generalisations across a hundred year period.

    Edit - also, it wasn't quite a 'puppet' Parliament in the sense that you mean. It could and sometimes did act independently (e.g. In 1789 it declared the Prince of Wales regent of Ireland while Pitt stalled matters at Westminster). It was however subject to Crown oversight which was predominantly exercised through the Westminster government - and as a Protestant parliament in a predominantly Catholic nation, was also dependent on British support for sheer survival.
    I meant puppet in that very sense. I’ve some familiarity with Poynings Law
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 2,646
    Alexander Waugh - Evelyn's grandson.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 20,514
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    CoughcoughGloriousRevolutionCoughCough

    Potato famine?
    Black and Tans?
    Black and Tans are more complicated because they were officers of the RIC and generally behaved as such (the errors of Mr Ken Loach notwithstanding).

    The Tans, on the other hand, the Auxies...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 22,743
    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    Indeed, for the entire time that the UK existed it always did. No exceptions.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,584
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    CoughcoughGloriousRevolutionCoughCough

    Potato famine?
    I was going to go thru the list, but unfortunately a) it is a list and b) it's a bit depressing. I think the essential point - that like many well-educated people Lilico believes his expertise extends to areas he has not studied - has been made.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 699

    DougSeal said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    That would have been @Philip_Thompson of this parish
    Yep, though I said under UK rule [ie not Cromwell's time]. Ireland under UK rule got MPs, the UK under EU Backstop rule won't get MEPs. QED.
    Is the EU going to export food from us while our people starve to death or terrorise our population with terroristic paramilitary hit squads, Philip? Will we have to surrender our armed forces?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 699

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    Indeed, for the entire time that the UK existed it always did. No exceptions.
    It didn’t in 1919.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 702

    To be fair British history is rather airbrushed in schools - at least in my time in the educational system. The Empire is not really taught at all.

    Probably for the best. With this lot in charge the kids would probably be learning that it was all about civilising the natives.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 26,075

    DougSeal said:
    Alaric Bamping sounds like a porn star name or a euphemism for something rude.
    He’s an antiquarian bookseller. Clearly that is a very Brexity profession. He’s also the husband of Julia Hobsbawm.

    Alexander Waugh is the grandson of Evelyn Waugh. Insert your own joke about decline and fall here.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 20,514
    edited August 6
    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    Indeed, for the entire time that the UK existed it always did. No exceptions.
    It didn’t in 1919.
    Again, not strictly true. It had the right to. It's just that the Sinn Fein majority (73 out of 101) met in Dublin and formed the First Dail instead. The 22 Irish Unionists and I think the 6 IPP MPs did go to London.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 15,452
    Charles said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*

    Arguably Britain was not separate to Ireland (they were both part of the United Kingdom) so it was more like self-harm than one entity oppressing another.

    If you go back to the Treaty of Windsor it was the Duke of Normandy and the Earl of Pembroke being beastly to the Irish (and screwing the Flemish in passing)

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    Edit: of course I know that’s not what Lilco meant. Slow hand clap.
    While I accept Scots' contributions to Ireland's misery over the centuries, I doubt there were many Scots in Cromwell's New Model Army.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 24,388
    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    CoughcoughGloriousRevolutionCoughCough

    You’re right. I meant the whole of the 17th century (under our Scottish kings and queens). Cromwell is only the middle pRt of that
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,584

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    Indeed, for the entire time that the UK existed it always did. No exceptions.
    You could consider the situation 1702-1707 (when Ireland, England and Scotland shared a monarch) and 1707-1801 (when Great Britain and Ireland shared a monarch).

    If you go back far enough in history you have to stop considering countries and start considering monarchs instead. Slapping a Westphalian state structure on, say, the twelvth century, is a classification error.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 1,120
    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    Tell that to the Scottish Nationalists.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 8,533
    Charles said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*

    Arguably Britain was not separate to Ireland (they were both part of the United Kingdom) so it was more like self-harm than one entity oppressing another.

    If you go back to the Treaty of Windsor it was the Duke of Normandy and the Earl of Pembroke being beastly to the Irish (and screwing the Flemish in passing)

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    Edit: of course I know that’s not what Lilco meant. Slow hand clap.
    The Scots have often been very enthusiastic butchers. Including in Ireland. The campaigns of Edward Bruce for example. They do have great PR though.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 699
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    CoughcoughGloriousRevolutionCoughCough

    Potato famine?
    Black and Tans?
    Black and Tans are more complicated because they were officers of the RIC and generally behaved as such (the errors of Mr Ken Loach notwithstanding).

    The Tans, on the other hand, the Auxies...
    Well, officially they were RIC reservists, but they were recruited from recently demobbed unemployed soldiers from the front, hence the cobbled together uniform, and I’m not sure even the RIC would have burned burned and sacked Tuam, Trim, Balbriggan, Knockcroghery, Thurles, Templemore and, most notoriously, Cork. Some of what was attributed to them may have been carried out by the Auxies - but let’s not pretend the Tans were officers and gentlemen.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 20,514
    edited August 6
    viewcode said:

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    Indeed, for the entire time that the UK existed it always did. No exceptions.
    You could consider the situation 1702-1707 (when Ireland, England and Scotland shared a monarch) and 1707-1801 (when Great Britain and Ireland shared a monarch).

    If you go back far enough in history you have to stop considering countries and start considering monarchs instead. Slapping a Westphalian state structure on, say, the twelvth century, is a classification error.
    Do you mean 1603-1707?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 215
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    CoughcoughGloriousRevolutionCoughCough

    Potato famine?
    Black and Tans?


    :smiley:
  • ChrisChris Posts: 3,622
    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    I at least - avowed Corbyn hater - am content to support him as PM of a temporary GONU whose only policy is call an election.

    The question is really whether certain Tory backbenchers would.

    No Deal is just too devastating to visit upon the country.

    So us just Jews should just be abandoned in the process. Good to know how much our fellow citizens care about us and our dignity as human beings.
    I don’t think making Corbyn PM for five minutes to stop a devastating No Deal Brexit is “abandoning Jews”.
    Yes it is. You are putting an anti-Semite in the highest political office in the land....
    I don't believe for a moment Corbyn is an anti-Semite.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 20,514
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    CoughcoughGloriousRevolutionCoughCough

    Potato famine?
    Black and Tans?
    Black and Tans are more complicated because they were officers of the RIC and generally behaved as such (the errors of Mr Ken Loach notwithstanding).

    The Tans, on the other hand, the Auxies...
    Well, officially they were RIC reservists, but they were recruited from recently demobbed unemployed soldiers from the front, hence the cobbled together uniform, and I’m not sure even the RIC would have burned burned and sacked Tuam, Trim, Balbriggan, Knockcroghery, Thurles, Templemore and, most notoriously, Cork. Some of what was attributed to them may have been carried out by the Auxies - but let’s not pretend the Tans were officers and gentlemen.
    Cork was Auxies. Can't speak for the others one way or the other.

    And the Irish members of the RIC definitely did carry out several murders. On one occasion a local Army garrison turned out to rescue a prisoner they were torturing.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,215

    OK, I've not been giving this 100% of my attention, but this is the first time I've seen the name Andrew Yang.

    You are unaware of the #YANGGANG? Oh, what a treat awaits you.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 31,034
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    Indeed, for the entire time that the UK existed it always did. No exceptions.
    It didn’t in 1919.
    Again, not strictly true. It had the right to. It's just that the Sinn Fein majority (73 out of 101) met in Dublin and formed the First Dail instead. The 22 Irish Unionists and I think the 6 IPP MPs did go to London.
    105 Irish MPs
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 20,514

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    Indeed, for the entire time that the UK existed it always did. No exceptions.
    It didn’t in 1919.
    Again, not strictly true. It had the right to. It's just that the Sinn Fein majority (73 out of 101) met in Dublin and formed the First Dail instead. The 22 Irish Unionists and I think the 6 IPP MPs did go to London.
    105 Irish MPs
    105 constituencies, but 101 successful candidates. Four were elected for two seats.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,584
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    Indeed, for the entire time that the UK existed it always did. No exceptions.
    You could consider the situation 1702-1707 (when Ireland, England and Scotland shared a monarch) and 1707-1801 (when Great Britain and Ireland shared a monarch).

    If you go back far enough in history you have to stop considering countries and start considering monarchs instead. Slapping a Westphalian state structure on, say, the twelvth century, is a classification error.
    Do you mean 1603-1707?
    I didn't, but a quick Google tells me that perhaps I should have. I went with Queen Anne because she liked gambling and I'm vaguely familiar with her reign (tho I haven't seen the film)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 31,034
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    Indeed, for the entire time that the UK existed it always did. No exceptions.
    It didn’t in 1919.
    Again, not strictly true. It had the right to. It's just that the Sinn Fein majority (73 out of 101) met in Dublin and formed the First Dail instead. The 22 Irish Unionists and I think the 6 IPP MPs did go to London.
    105 Irish MPs
    105 constituencies, but 101 successful candidates. Four were elected for two seats.
    73 SF
    22 U
    6 IPP
    3 Lab U
    1 Ind U
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 15,452

    Charles said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*

    Arguably Britain was not separate to Ireland (they were both part of the United Kingdom) so it was more like self-harm than one entity oppressing another.

    If you go back to the Treaty of Windsor it was the Duke of Normandy and the Earl of Pembroke being beastly to the Irish (and screwing the Flemish in passing)

    The only period of risk would be Cromwell. That’s absolutely not my period - I find puritans so dull - but I think it would have been England oppressing Ireland not Britain doing so (although I have a vague memory that many of the worst offenders were Scots(. In any event they were still separate kingdoms at that point.

    Edit: of course I know that’s not what Lilco meant. Slow hand clap.
    The Scots have often been very enthusiastic butchers. Including in Ireland. The campaigns of Edward Bruce for example. They do have great PR though.
    I've got so many favourite Unionist memes, but 'We were shits but so were you!' is always a good one.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 1,120
    Chris said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    I at least - avowed Corbyn hater - am content to support him as PM of a temporary GONU whose only policy is call an election.

    The question is really whether certain Tory backbenchers would.

    No Deal is just too devastating to visit upon the country.

    So us just Jews should just be abandoned in the process. Good to know how much our fellow citizens care about us and our dignity as human beings.
    I don’t think making Corbyn PM for five minutes to stop a devastating No Deal Brexit is “abandoning Jews”.
    Yes it is. You are putting an anti-Semite in the highest political office in the land....
    I don't believe for a moment Corbyn is an anti-Semite.
    I have this occasional vision of Corbyn reading comments like this online, throwing his hands up in the air and being all "what do I have to do to convince these people?"
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 24,388
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    Indeed, for the entire time that the UK existed it always did. No exceptions.
    You could consider the situation 1702-1707 (when Ireland, England and Scotland shared a monarch) and 1707-1801 (when Great Britain and Ireland shared a monarch).

    If you go back far enough in history you have to stop considering countries and start considering monarchs instead. Slapping a Westphalian state structure on, say, the twelvth century, is a classification error.
    Do you mean 1603-1707?
    I didn't, but a quick Google tells me that perhaps I should have. I went with Queen Anne because she liked gambling and I'm vaguely familiar with her reign (tho I haven't seen the film)
    Emma Stone’s character was an ancestor...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 9,584
    Charles said:

    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    tlg86 said:

    Streeter said:

    This deserves an airing on this thread as well.

    Brexiteers are something *special*



    We did have one of PB Brexit-backers saying on here the other day that the backstop would make the UK less free than Ireland ever was under British rule.

    The backstop is worse than the potato famines or the Croke Park massacre?

    Well it is a view.

    I don't think the Brexiters have ever really managed to get their heads around Ireland. It does not properly compute.

    A century ago Ireland took back control from a foreign power that set their laws etc would be something Brexiteers would like and know about.
    One does not vote in the elections of a foreign power. Ergo the EU is not a foreign power.
    I thought Ireland sent MPs to Westminster.
    Indeed, for the entire time that the UK existed it always did. No exceptions.
    You could consider the situation 1702-1707 (when Ireland, England and Scotland shared a monarch) and 1707-1801 (when Great Britain and Ireland shared a monarch).

    If you go back far enough in history you have to stop considering countries and start considering monarchs instead. Slapping a Westphalian state structure on, say, the twelvth century, is a classification error.
    Do you mean 1603-1707?
    I didn't, but a quick Google tells me that perhaps I should have. I went with Queen Anne because she liked gambling and I'm vaguely familiar with her reign (tho I haven't seen the film)
    Emma Stone’s character was an ancestor...
    On any other site that might seem strange... :)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 35,079
    edited August 6
    Endillion said:

    Chris said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    I at least - avowed Corbyn hater - am content to support him as PM of a temporary GONU whose only policy is call an election.

    The question is really whether certain Tory backbenchers would.

    No Deal is just too devastating to visit upon the country.

    So us just Jews should just be abandoned in the process. Good to know how much our fellow citizens care about us and our dignity as human beings.
    I don’t think making Corbyn PM for five minutes to stop a devastating No Deal Brexit is “abandoning Jews”.
    Yes it is. You are putting an anti-Semite in the highest political office in the land....
    I don't believe for a moment Corbyn is an anti-Semite.
    I have this occasional vision of Corbyn reading comments like this online, throwing his hands up in the air and being all "what do I have to do to convince these people?"
    Corbyn isn't antisemitic in the way trump isn't racist. They dont mind those that agree with them. Corbyn with his commie israel hating nutjob jewish lot, trump kayne west. They both emboldened their cults racist elements.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 115
    edited August 6
    It's depressing that it's come to this but yeah, I'm all aboard the IndyRef2 train. Choo Choo, departing Daily Mail island, destination: anywhere but fucking here.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/08/scotland-moving-towards-independence-and-unionists-don-t-know-how-stop-it
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 2,954
    OnboardG1 said:

    It's depressing that it's come to this but yeah, I'm all aboard the IndyRef2 train. Choo Choo, departing Daily Mail island, destination: anywhere but fucking here.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/08/scotland-moving-towards-independence-and-unionists-don-t-know-how-stop-it

    There is no way to stop it; the union is done.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 26,324

    OK, I've not been giving this 100% of my attention, but this is the first time I've seen the name Andrew Yang.

    My son told me about him. He advocates a guaranteed income for every adult. Claims it would boost growth, increase consumption, reduce inequality and give everyone a better sex life (I may have got that last bit wrong, something to do with reducing mental ill health and stress).

    My son has run the numbers in some detail in the UK for an essay competition. It is a nice idea but they don't come close to adding up.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 9,023
    OnboardG1 said:

    It's depressing that it's come to this but yeah, I'm all aboard the IndyRef2 train. Choo Choo, departing Daily Mail island, destination: anywhere but fucking here.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/08/scotland-moving-towards-independence-and-unionists-don-t-know-how-stop-it

    Spare a thought for we Remainers who'll be stranded on DM Island :disappointed:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 26,324
    dixiedean said:

    Gosh. Dominic Raab is unimpressive. He can't even read a prepared statement, or even smile, like a human being.

    The idea that he was a candidate for PM is still quite startling. What on earth were people seeing and why is he hiding it so successfully?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 9,023
    DavidL said:

    OK, I've not been giving this 100% of my attention, but this is the first time I've seen the name Andrew Yang.

    My son told me about him. He advocates a guaranteed income for every adult. Claims it would boost growth, increase consumption, reduce inequality and give everyone a better sex life (I may have got that last bit wrong, something to do with reducing mental ill health and stress).

    My son has run the numbers in some detail in the UK for an essay competition. It is a nice idea but they don't come close to adding up.
    Didn't they try it in Finland?

    A better approach surely is to set the minimum wage at a level that ensures people can afford to live without recourse to Universal Credit, Housing Benefit, Council Tax support etc. etc.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 14,818
    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    Gosh. Dominic Raab is unimpressive. He can't even read a prepared statement, or even smile, like a human being.

    The idea that he was a candidate for PM is still quite startling. What on earth were people seeing and why is he hiding it so successfully?
    And remember this is after he got training on his presentation skills. By some rather dodgy individual part of a pro-Putin group (the Imperial Orthodox Palestine Society) which hangs out at the Cavalry & Guards Club.

    God knows what he would be like without such training.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 5,883
    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    Gosh. Dominic Raab is unimpressive. He can't even read a prepared statement, or even smile, like a human being.

    The idea that he was a candidate for PM is still quite startling. What on earth were people seeing and why is he hiding it so successfully?
    Yet one PM promoted him to Brexit Secretary. Probably the key post in government at the time. He walked. Good riddance one would have thought, given his lack of performance there.
    But no. He is back. As Foreign Secretary. He surely MUST have talents he reveals only when away from the public gaze?
    Surely?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 35,079


    Another few years and there will be nothing tencent doesnt own.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 4,522
    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    Gosh. Dominic Raab is unimpressive. He can't even read a prepared statement, or even smile, like a human being.

    The idea that he was a candidate for PM is still quite startling. What on earth were people seeing and why is he hiding it so successfully?
    Yet one PM promoted him to Brexit Secretary. Probably the key post in government at the time. He walked. Good riddance one would have thought, given his lack of performance there.
    But no. He is back. As Foreign Secretary. He surely MUST have talents he reveals only when away from the public gaze?
    Surely?
    He was once considered a liberty-loving great white hope; worked with Liberty and I think Amnesty International; wrote a half decent book on liberty too.

    He’s not stupid, however he seems to be mad.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 115

    DavidL said:

    OK, I've not been giving this 100% of my attention, but this is the first time I've seen the name Andrew Yang.

    My son told me about him. He advocates a guaranteed income for every adult. Claims it would boost growth, increase consumption, reduce inequality and give everyone a better sex life (I may have got that last bit wrong, something to do with reducing mental ill health and stress).

    My son has run the numbers in some detail in the UK for an essay competition. It is a nice idea but they don't come close to adding up.
    Didn't they try it in Finland?

    A better approach surely is to set the minimum wage at a level that ensures people can afford to live without recourse to Universal Credit, Housing Benefit, Council Tax support etc. etc.
    The general idea is that it enables people the option to not work and still survive. Not necessarily prosper but survive. That gives them leverage over employers who pay starvation wages and use the threat of dismissal to justify awful working conditions. I'm not convinced it neccessarily adds up either but it probably isn't totally unfeasible if you replace pensions with it as well and ditch the personal tax allowance.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 26,324

    DavidL said:

    OK, I've not been giving this 100% of my attention, but this is the first time I've seen the name Andrew Yang.

    My son told me about him. He advocates a guaranteed income for every adult. Claims it would boost growth, increase consumption, reduce inequality and give everyone a better sex life (I may have got that last bit wrong, something to do with reducing mental ill health and stress).

    My son has run the numbers in some detail in the UK for an essay competition. It is a nice idea but they don't come close to adding up.
    Didn't they try it in Finland?

    A better approach surely is to set the minimum wage at a level that ensures people can afford to live without recourse to Universal Credit, Housing Benefit, Council Tax support etc. etc.
    Its actually quite complicated because even although a guaranteed income removes a large chunk of the benefit system you have to retain a bit for those who need extra such as those with young kids, disabilities etc. I also have serious reservations about whether increasing consumption (which it undoubtedly would do) is really what either the US or the UK require right now. We need to boost savings and reduce our trade deficit.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 5,883

    DougSeal said:
    Alaric Bamping sounds like a porn star name or a euphemism for something rude.
    Or something a surveyor discovers before you exchange contracts. Ask for 5k off, mate. Your Alaric Bamping's gonna need ripping out and replacing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 59,526
    edited August 6
    OnboardG1 said:

    It's depressing that it's come to this but yeah, I'm all aboard the IndyRef2 train. Choo Choo, departing Daily Mail island, destination: anywhere but fucking here.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/08/scotland-moving-towards-independence-and-unionists-don-t-know-how-stop-it

    Yet as the same article points out only 46% actually back Yes including Don't Knows and Westminster will block any indyref2 before 2021 where the SNP will need a majority for one.

    The latest Holyrood poll gives the SNP only 42% on the constituency vote and 39% on the regional vote compared to 47% and 42% in 2016

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Scottish_Parliament_election
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 26,324
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    Gosh. Dominic Raab is unimpressive. He can't even read a prepared statement, or even smile, like a human being.

    The idea that he was a candidate for PM is still quite startling. What on earth were people seeing and why is he hiding it so successfully?
    And remember this is after he got training on his presentation skills. By some rather dodgy individual part of a pro-Putin group (the Imperial Orthodox Palestine Society) which hangs out at the Cavalry & Guards Club.

    God knows what he would be like without such training.
    I hope he wasn't paying for it. Blimey.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 26,075
    Andrew Yang is a revenue scheme for political bettors. As such he is to be lauded.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 59,526
    edited August 6
    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    Gosh. Dominic Raab is unimpressive. He can't even read a prepared statement, or even smile, like a human being.

    The idea that he was a candidate for PM is still quite startling. What on earth were people seeing and why is he hiding it so successfully?
    Raab along with Javid is probably joint favourite to be next Tory leader now when Boris goes
This discussion has been closed.